#snumblemort

[saintsenara]

now, if you'll excuse him, he has to go and fall to his knees before either dumbledore or voldemort.

ok hear me out why must there be an or. why can’t we have snape/dumbledore/voldemort all at once (in the interest of unhinged ships that really could be rather hinged if u think about it, i am waiting patiently for u to tell me how actually, we very much can have snape/dumbledore/voldemort)

hot.

anon, you are so right that snumblemort has the potential to go really, really hard and i am now entirely compelled by it as a concept.

i back each of the constituent two-person pairings entirely - i've written about snumbledore and riddledore, and i know there's an ask sitting in my inbox about snapemort [which i promise i'll get to].

and, i realise, i back them for exceptionally similar reasons.

both snumbledore and riddledore work because the potential for horror baked into them [the age gaps, the fact that dumbledore was both men's teacher, and so on] exist in conjunction with the fact that there would clearly be the foundations for genuinely meaningful relationships chilling cutely among all the ways in which they're fucked up.

all three men are the only people in the series who can be feasibly described as the others' intellectual equals - and all three share the same outlook on what the purpose of magic is and how one ought to relate to it [even if dumbledore hides this behind his shame at how his belief in the value of magic and magical experimentation as power triggered the whole grindelwald debacle...]. i think there's an immediately compelling prompt for a fic in which the three end up being forced to work together to solve some sort of mystery - the chance to pour over ancient manuscripts in candlelit libraries, or race against time to unravel the base of a curse or a poison, or try to figure out a series of puzzles or clues contained within dark objects would be right up their alleys, and nothing's hotter than a man who takes an interest in your sapiosexual pretensions.

but i'm also really interested in the ways in which snumbledore and riddledore really work as the most plausible pairings in which dumbledore can be made to do some actual self-growth.

his canonical relationship with both snape and voldemort is born of his own self-loathing - when he tells snape, in the prince's tale "you disgust me", he's speaking to the memory of a man whose selfish desire to impress someone he loved was utterly destructive; he is not disturbed by meeting the young tom riddle in half-blood prince until he describes himself as "special", and his loathing of the adult voldemort's obsession with fame and notoriety is evidently caused by the fact that these were both things he once [and still] desired.

and he's forced in canon to confront this in his relationship with snape - after snape agrees to kill him in half-blood prince - and to come to regard snape as brave, loyal, steadfast, and trustworthy. he's never - for obvious reasons - made to do this for voldemort in canon [and, indeed, he is strikingly oblivious in half-blood prince to the things about voldemort which inspire harry's sympathy - above all his lingering grief over his mother's death], but i think there are numerous plausible scenarios in which being forced into closer proximity to voldemort could bring this about. the canonical voldemort has an extremely profound - if also extremely odd - sense of honour, and he also possesses the capacity to - in his own little way - be surprisingly brave, and i always think there's something quite moving about fics in which dumbledore has no other option but to recognise this.

and dumbledore having to drop his mask would be good for both snape and voldemort. it's clear in canon that one of the reasons voldemort dislikes dumbledore is that he considers him a hypocrite [especially because he decries voldemort's ambition for public attention while courting such things himself] and that one of the reasons snape dislikes him is that he feels he conceals things from him because he distrusts him, even as he's asking him to risk his life for the order. both of them learning why it is that dumbledore constructed his public mask of benign eccentricity would help them make sense of why he is the way he is.

and it would allow all the similarities between the three to fully emerge. one of the reasons why snapemort really slaps as a ship is because snape and voldemort have so much in common - especially their experiences of childhood poverty, their disappointing fathers who they greatly resemble, and their periphery to the posh, pureblood world they both long to be fully part of and also long to undermine and humiliate. and dumbledore has the shadow of a similarly difficult childhood - and a similarly difficult relationship with his father and his legacy - lurking over him. all three also carry the weight of life-altering grief [even if voldemort is the one of the three unwilling to admit to this]. i think there's a lot of opportunity for the recognition of each in the others that they all canonically use to drive their own loathing to mutate into something which might look a lot like respect...

do i think it would be healthy? ...eh, probably not. all three clearly have really fucked-up views on intimacy and love, for one thing, and i doubt whether any of them really has the potential to let go of their original ways of seeing the others, to be properly honest, or to relinquish the power dynamics established between them from the beginning of their acquaintances.

and yet...

[saintsenara]

metas on ships

- in defence of amicable divorce - miscellaneous tomarrymort headcanons - thoughts on wolfstar from a non-wolfstar fan - unrequited prongsfoot is canon - why fandom needs to stop sleeping on dron - wow, luna is impossible to ship with anyone...

sirius black/severus snape

- could snack work as a couple in a world where james lives? - snape, sirius, childishness, and the werewolf prank - snack's sexual dynamics - miscellaneous snack headcanons

hermione granger/ron weasley

- romione are the best canon couple - no, ron and hermione wouldn't need couples therapy [no, they really wouldn't] - the best romione moment in the series [now with part two and three!] - are jily and romione meant to be narrative parallels? - would i write romione as the main pairing of a fic?

lily evans/james potter

- james and lily were love at first sight - would james and lily's marriage have lasted without the war?

remus lupin/nymphadora tonks

- a remadora answer which will please nobody - lupin's idealisation of tonks during their relationship - lupin's relationship with his sexuality, in remadora and snupin

harry potter/ginny weasley

- hinny's best narrative parallel? bellamort - ronarry versus hinny

severus snape/nymphadora tonks

- the stonks manifesto - stonks and the euphoria of queerness

severus snape/lord voldemort

- the snapemort manifesto - time-travelling snapemort would be a disaster

on...

short-form looks at various ships...

bellamione | blackcest | cissamione | dorlene | dracomort | dramione | drarry | drinny | flintwood | georgelina | georgemione | ginnymort | golden triad | grindeldore | grindelmort | hansy | harmony | hinny | jegulus | jily | lilymort | lilypad | linny | lucimort | lucissa | lunarry | luthur | mollytrix | moonflower | nottpott | pansmione | pavender | perciver | riddledore | ronarrymort | ronmort | siricissa | sirimione | siritrix | siritunia | sirry | tedoire | tomarrymort | tombraxas | tomione | wolfbucks | wormbucks

out of which snape has emerged as the fandom bike...

snaco | snagonagall | snames | snamione | snarcissa | snarity | snarry | snarrymort | snegulus | snetunia | snily | snilymort | snilypad | sniritunia | snon | snucissa | snucius | snulciber | snumbledore | snumblemort | snuna | snupin

unhinged and deranged...

send me the wildest pairing - platonic or romantic - that you can think of and i'll answer it here...

[saintsenara]

So I found your blog a while back and I last night I finally found the time to browse through pretty much all your HP meta and ship takes (i slept way later than I should've yesterday, thanks to you ^^) and I'm astonished at how you manage to weave in well founded analysis even into your answers to even the most deranged ship-asks

That being said, I scrolled through a lot of your blog and I couldn't find your opinion on grindeldore as a ship. Since i really like your takes on ol dumbles (even though I don't agree with all of them. For example I don't think his whimsical traits are entirely a lie. I think they are a part of him he over-exaggerates as a coping mechanism and a comfort to himself and others) I was wondering how you think this relationship-dynamic worked, how it shaped him and how large a role it played in his later life

(This is not a reaction to the ask game obviously, since the ship has no gone rather mainstream. I sometimes miss its days of obscurity before the fb movies but that's another ask)

thank you very much for the ask, anon - and especially for the very kind message at the start.

my opinion on grindeldore is coloured by the fact that i've never seen any of the fantastic beasts films - and that i've also gone out of my way to forget anything i've ever accidentally learned about any of them. i just don't find the idea of them interesting in the slightest.

but i love the little flashes of grindeldore we get in the seven-book canon - the image of the owls flying back and forth at all hours of the night because they can’t bear not to be talking to each other has a good claim to be the most romantic thing which happens in the series - and i also love the way that grindelwald becomes another example of a narrative tool the series uses to great effect with many other main characters besides dumbledore: the figure, only ever fragmentarily known [both by the reader and by the character who loved them], who causes such immense grief that it dictates the entire course of that character's life.

grindelwald plays the role in dumbledore's narrative arc that james plays in harry's - he considers grindelwald perfect, wonderful, brilliant... until he can't pretend this is the case anymore, just as harry hero-worships his father until he is confronted by the proof that he was a bully. but while harry then begins to understand james with more nuance, dumbledore retreats - hides himself from grindelwald until he's literally forced to duel him, and then hides grindelwald away and never sees him again.

grindelwald is dumbledore's lily - his grief over losing him [and, specifically, his grief over losing the imagined version of him, when who he really was could no longer be ignored - which is exactly how snape thinks of lily] drives him towards a life which encapsulates what the series understands as "love": the willingness to steadfastly endure and suffer and sacrifice in silence.

and he's also dumbledore's merope - the person who didn't even try to stay alive be better for him, who irreparably ripped his chance at a happy family apart, and who abandoned him when things got hard - and, just as voldemort's entire life becomes about creating a place for himself in the world which soothes that grief, so too does dumbledore's. his public persona becomes unwaveringly noble for exactly the same reason that voldemort's becomes unassailably villainous - so that the fragility of the grieving man beneath the mask is never known.

these parallels are why i back the concepts of snumbledore and riddledore [and the triad - snumblemort] so utterly [i am not quite brave enough for harrydore, i fear], and so they certainly mean that i should find grindeldore compelling...

but i find - i think - that i like grindelwald better as a background character whose ghost haunts dumbledore's later relationships - romantic or otherwise. his shadow looming over the two dumbledore brothers, and the way that the memory of him rears up when the eleven-year-old tom riddle calls himself "special", and the way that dumbledore still loathes himself so strongly - a century later - for being taken in by his smile that he spits "you disgust me" at snape are canon moments which always stand out for me, and i love how these can be expanded in fanfiction - what happens when voldemort and/or snape find out about grindeldore obsesses me, for example.

and i am similarly interested in how dumbledore can't be written as a fully-rounded character unless the impact of his relationship with grindelwald [and how this drives his public performance of careful eccentricity, causes his obvious ivory-tower-ishness, and informs his thinking on love and desire and so on] is taken into account.

but i just am less interested in grindeldore as the central relationship in a piece [although there are definitely exceptions to this rule] - and i think being so stubborn about fantastic beasts is probably why. grindelwald works so well in the books as a shadow that i end up finding that more compelling than seeing him as a main character [which i also feel about james - i really like the ghost of unrequited prongsfoot, which is canon, haunting sirius in his adult life, but i care about it less as the main ship of a fic], but i'm sure that i would feel otherwise if i ever bothered to get into how he's written for the films, where he serves such a different narrative purpose that he gets more substance.

and i should also say that i don't find that grindeldore interests me to write myself because i think that filling grindelwald out into a main character on the basis of book-canon detail alone would mean confronting just how explicit an analogy for hitler he is in the text [my impression is that fantastic beasts changes this a lot], which is something i don't really have the energy for.

[although - since it's always worth reiterating this - the grindeldore girlies are perfectly entitled to ship the pairing in any way they like, and to write the characters and their motivations in any way they choose, without getting any grief about it. this is fiction.]

but who knows - maybe i'll change my mind the more grindeldore crosses my path. stranger things have happened.

because there is a little idea which continues to needle at me... that dumbledore's loathing of horcruxes, even in the 1940s, is because grindelwald had made one. and that this is why, when he meets harry at king's cross, he is so determined to believe that the rumours of his repentance were true...

[saintsenara]

hello! i found your blog through twitter—someone recommended your ron/hermione meta there, and im not good with words, but i just wanted to let you know that i feel so blessed to get to read it and have your presence in this fandom ❤️ not only that it’s so comprehensive, but the way you explain and connect each details to build up the argument/reasoning is really amazing!

which also amaze me considering that they are not even your main otps (a quick search told me that it’s snape/voldemort, dumbledore/voldemort and harry/voldemort, right?), which speaks so much of your reading comprehension and attention to details, imo :D

also, while im neither of your otps shipper, it sparks my curiosity on what you like about those ships—have you written a ship analysis/meta for either of them like you did with ron/hermione?

ahh thanks so much, anon - this is a really lovely message! i have been delighted to take up arms to defend romione's honour, and very pleased that so many people have also followed the call.

and yes, for my sins my preferred pairings are ones in which someone involved has a snatched little waist and blood all over his hands...

i've got a riddledore manifesto [and also a snumblemort one - we love a toxic triad here!] locked and loaded, and there are asks sitting in my inbox about snapemort and tomarrymort which i promise i'm not ignoring [i kick my legs in the air and go oHoHoHo whenever an ask comes in - they are delightful] and will get around to answering when i have the time to sit down and enter an appropriate state of derangement.

but the fundamental principles behind my interest in all three are the same: that the harry potter series prioritises love-as-suffering-and-sacrifice and ignores how much each of these men would appreciate the value of love-as-comfort; that "i would stop killing for you" and "i would live for you" relationship dynamics are just as delicious [if not more so] as "i would kill for you" and "i would die for you" ones; that there is not a soul on earth incapable of redemption; and that there is not a soul on earth unworthy of giving and receiving love.

[saintsenara]

Hello! Not sure if you've covered this, but what are you thoughts on Snape/Dumbledore..? Thank you!

thank you very much for the ask, anon!

i have come out swinging in favour of snumbledore here:

and - if you'd like a little extra flavour - i've also decided to become committed to the concept of snumblemort....