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thepoodlepack · 4 years ago

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What's wrong with goldenpoodles? I'm genuinely curious because almost all of my dogs are mixed breeds and behave fine. So I'm curious if there's something else I'm missing

jeez this feels like bait but u kno what, you got me

alright, so it goes like this. the doodle really began with a guy in australia being like i need the temperament of a lab for a guide dog but these ppl are allergic to dogs, so i need a poodle bc they have hair, not fur. so he bred em together. years later he’s like damn that was a mistake.

now, why, exactly? alright so first of all he only needed that mix bc labs on average tend to adapt better to situations that are largely exclusive to service dog work than poodles do. i can go into what this means at a later date, but that’s basically how it is. but either way, people jumped on this creation and it kinda spiraled out of control. soon, poodles were being bred by everyone and every breed. suddenly, they were a marketing scam more then they were a dog breed.

oh theyre hypoallergenic! all of them, all the time cause zero allergies! look theyre so much better than poodles! theyre friendly and easy to train, not like poodles of course, just like labs! they’re better than labs bc none of them shed, ever! they’re super healthy bc breeding labs and poodles together wipes out all their health problems, of course!

lies, lies lies. the aussie guy, whose name i’m not going to look up bc i’m lazy but who you can find if you google creator of doodles, straight up says that even the first litter(s) of labradoodles he bred had puppies that the people he bred them for were allergic to. he very carefully tested the litter and the reaction the person had before placing a puppy that was not going to hurt them.

think of the punnet squares we all learned about in 5th grade science class. you draw the squares and one parent has two fur genes and the other parent has two hair genes and what do you get? well if you have four puppies, one might have hairhair and the next one might have hairfur and the next one might have furhair and the next one might have furfur. and so guess what? only hairhair pup is going to be the best choice for allergic people. additionally, you can see why the non-shedding thing can be bullshit, and that in particular is also a guessing game. you may be able to test allergy sufferers against the pups, but that does not necessarily mean they won’t shed. hairfur, for example, may be a good choice for some allergic people, but perhaps they’ve got just enough fur to shed anyway. also, lets look at salukis (and frankly, most long-haired sighthounds). salukis are still considered dogs with fur, not hair. they also still shed, even though it’s just a little. and yet they’re still considered good for allergy sufferers.

(ps poodles do actually shed. but they shed like humans shed. your hair comes out, doesn’t it? like, esp folks with long hair, aren’t people always complaining how you clog the shower drain? yeah, like that. ALSO obviously the situation is more complicated then super simple punnet squares and as an ex-groomer i have something to say about doodle coats but i’m going to save that for later, put a pin in it.)

oh and wait a hot minute there. i said best choice, didn’t i, not hypoallergenic. well, that’s because no dog is hypoallergenic. poodles, and a few other dog breeds, they have hair, like we do. but the thing is both humans and breeds with hair still produce the dander, though they’re different kinds. breeds with hair happen to produce the least amount possible that dogs can produce, which is why they’re a better choice for allergy sufferers, but that’s still not a guarantee. my roommate Dakota is allergic to dogs. if i don’t wash my dogs for an extended period of time (which has never happened, ever, in my life, idk what ur talking about), thus giving the chance for the dander my dogs still produce, he will have a very, very mild reaction when touching them. it can be countered by him washing his hands after touching them and also me just giving them a fucking bath, i need to stop forgetting, but still, there you go. ALSO people might not be allergic to dogs bc of their dander. they might be allergic to the saliva of dogs, which poodles or any other breed with hair still produces about the same as other dogs. so, yeah, not hypoallergenic, not at all.

the people who taut their hypoallergenic dogs for sale largely don’t do the testing required to check if they’re actually providing a dog to someone who won’t react to it. not acceptable at all.

so, labs are friendly and easy to train right? not at all like poodles, right? no. absolutely incorrect. some labs are friendly and easy to train. some labs, a lot of them when they’re puppies, are nightmare fuel. personally, i have a theory that everyone’s vision of labs in their heads are either a) service dogs or b) those old labs who are slightly pudgy (or morbidly obsess, which is a different topic) and who are graying in the face and just want to lounge around because they’re seniors now. alright, so here’s why thats bad. labs are a working breed. a retrieving breed. they’re supposed to be bulky and strong and driven. service dogs are highly trained, to a point that most pet dogs will never see, and if you see them with their actual disabled handler, they’ll probably be around 2.5 yrs of age and out of their most wild days. old labs are well. old. sleepy. maybe a bit achey. and well out of their most wild days. oh, and it’s the same type of thing with goldens by the way, the other most popular doodle type. poodles are also easy to train, especially if their parents have a decent temperament. they’re all about equal if you actually start training them when they’re puppies and just pay for some training classes, like everyone should. in the puppy classes i’m in right now, Euphoria is leaps and bounds ahead of doodles, goldens, and labs that are her age or older. I train her properly and she’s got amazing parents. that’s it, that’s the trick. not breed, not necessarily, and def not in this case.

I am once again going to say that labs and goldens are more often used as service dogs than poodles because of their adaptability, but it’s the ability to adapt to situations that most pet dogs will never have to worry about.

jeez this is a long post. i’ve still got more to cover too. alright, on to super healthy, or “hybrid vigor” as the nerds call it. uhh, it’s bullshit. thank u for ur time.

okay, but actually why on gods green earth would breeding two completely different breeds with little to no research make them super healthy? now i want to preface this with i’m (generally) pro-outcross projects. Euphoria’s dad is half mini poodle and half standard poodle, which isn’t technically an outcross bc all the variations are of the same breed, but if we’re going by genetic diversity alone minis and standards are different enough to actually be different breeds.

so, to be clear, outcrosses, given the proper thought and planning: good, results in healthier dogs (see: lua dals). randomly breeding two very different breeds together with no planning other than to sell the puppies to randos who won’t continue the outcross: bad. especially when you’re doing it to cash in and don’t health test at all, or don’t health test the major health problems with both breeds (if you’re doing an f2 breeding or anything like that). no the poodle’s health problems don’t get canceled out by the goldens or labs or whatever the other party’s health problems are, and vice versa. and yeah, i’ve looked at a lot of doodle breeder’s websites and yeah, most of them don’t health test at all, or at least don’t health test properly. do you know i own one doodle and currently live with another? yeah, i got them both from breeders and do you know how much health testing their parents got? if your answer is none, good job, you’ve been paying attention. in my defense, i was like 13, i didn’t know what i was doing.

alright, so those are the big points. this is kinda gonna be just... a mix of my other complaints. here we go, hope you’re ready for more. argument the first: i feel like it’s pretty disrespectful to reputable breeders. now, i actually have two reasons why that is. reason one: most reputable poodle breeders don’t want their breeding stock bred with other breeds, for various reasons. i’ve even met a few who used to be okay with it and then as the doodle scam got bigger and more out of control, they stopped being okay with it, even to the breeders who they had been fine with it in the past. that means a lot of doodle breeders out there have their breeding stock because they scammed poodle breeders into giving them pet quality, not breeding quality, dogs or because they’re getting their stock from non-reputable breeders. i also feel it’s disrespectful to breeders who are actually trying to create new breeds. quite frankly, a breed with the size, strength, and adaptability of a lab or golden that doesn’t shed and that has the train-ability of a poodle, lab, or golden sounds pretty interesting to me. did you know you can actually make that breed? and it wouldn’t be a cross with unpredictable... well, everything. it would actually be a true dog breed.

Look at Silken Windhounds and Biewer Terriers who began both development in the 1980s. Biewer Terriers were recognized by the AKC this year, and Silken Windhounds still haven’t been. And yeah, that’s the problem isn’t it? Making a real new breed takes a lot of time, planning, and care. People would rather just cash in. I think it’s sad and I think it’s disrespectful to the breeders who do work so hard to make actual new breeds.

and finally, unpin being an ex-groomer goddamnit. guess what? doodles are awful to groom! they’re terrible on the grooming tables because people want to have in both ways: they want a dog that doesnt shed at all and they want a dog who doesn’t need to be groomed. well guess what, that dog doesn’t exist and you can have it only one way. and also, bring back the goddamn punnet squares because a lot of doodles have awful coats. if you have hairfur and furhair over there, guess what, their coat fucking sucks bc it’s not meant to be like that. it wants to mat bc hair but also it wants the mats to slide out bc short-ish fur but its too thick for the mats to slide out bc thick hair. and yes its more complicated then this and that means its often more awful then this. its awful, it makes me want to cry. and maybe it’s slightly easier to get away with it with a shorthaired dog like a lab, or, you know what, even a golden, okay, even a slightly long haired dog like a golden but people are doodling akitas? border collies? bernese fucking mountain dogs? i am crying. i am crying right now as i type this.

lets do a sum up to this disaster of a post. look, i don’t go out there attacking or yelling at every doodle or every doodle owner i see, alright? or any of them really. i might engage in conversation to one that’s interested, but that’s it. i love my doodly Isis, okay? shes tiny and she’s adorable and I love her more than life and i will never, ever get another doodle. i don’t like the way they’ve gotten so prolific, i don’t like the reasons they’re now widespread, and i don’t like almost all of the people that create them, including the ones i’ve literally given my (parents) money to in the past. i wish they were better but i just cannot approve of them, especially not in the environment they exist in now. that said, i do support them in their original use case as assistance dogs, and i do not care about them if they’re shelter dogs.

#long post #anti doodle #text #my post #yes this took me like an hour #yes i do hate myself for it #Anonymous #oh anon im being grumpy mostly for comedy thats only funny to me #you're fine as long as you werent trying to bait me

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drferox · 8 years ago

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20 Questions with Dr Ferox #14

Another mixed bag of 20 questions and comments from you Vetlings. I hope I’m not overloading you with answers lately. Many of these questions and comments pertain to posts made earlier in the week.

Anonymous said: Dumb question but do you draw? I looked at the FAQ and realised most of the questions have been vet stuff so I wanted to ask something non-vety... If you do draw, can we see an art?

Unfortunately i do not effectively draw, and I’m profoundly jealous of those that can. I can manage an unconvincing kidney or an overly complicated scribble on an endocrine system, but they are better described as ‘a spider falling into ink and having a seizure across the paper’ than ‘art’.

Anonymous said: Talking about drug seeking behavior: My mom use to work in a human urgent care and once a lady walked in saying she's new to town and doesn't have a vet yet but her poodle has SEVERE anxiety and NEEDS some kind of drug to help the dog and the poodle just happen to weigh as much as the lady. What a coincidence. Needless to say she didn't get drugs.

Rightfully so. What sort of poodle weight as much as a grown woman? That’s a poorly thought out ruse if ever I saw one. That said, I’ve had someone come into the clinic and ask to take home a syringe full of euthanasia solution for their dog at home, which happened to be human sized. We firmly declined.

@ jbbarnes-rogers said: I wanted to say that I really liked hat you compared surgery to hand sewing :^). I've always wanted to be a surgeon or a vet but gave up on that when I was in middle school because I inherited my mother's shaky hands, but I'm pretty proud of my ability to sew.

It’s a fair comparison for soft tissue surgery, which is the more common surgery. Facial surgery takes a little more finesse, but orthopedic surgery is more like carpentry.

Anonymous said: My cat, Arrow, has been with us for about 10 years and she's got a few adorable habits. When she's sleepy, you can pick her up and move her somewhere else and she'll remain purring and not be disturbed even slightly. She also seems to have figured out petting, somewhat; when she wants you to pet her she'll raise her paw and slowly claw your arm until you start petting. She doesn't seem to realise we don't like claws, but she never tries to hurt us or deliberately break skin. She's a good kitty.

All kitties are good kitties, according to their own definition.

Anonymous said: My cat really likes to eat grass. Is that ok for her?

If it’s not sprayed with anything then eating a little bit of grass is probably fine. Some cats just like to chew it, some like the novel taste or texture. A little bit wont hurt her.

@thisoleking said: ive known the issues with the Scottish fold breed for quite some time, however id like to know if Scottish straights are generally of better health?

I’d never heard them called ‘Scottish Straights’ before this site. I’m sure there’s a joke to be made from that name somewhere. They lack the gene for osteochondrodysplasia but are equally likely to develop the genetic heart and kidney diseases.

@ vilkasdaina said: Do the American Curl cats have the same risk as the Scottish Fold because of their ears?

If you mean whether they also get osteochondrodysplasia, then it doesn’t appear to be so at this stage. This s a relatively new breed though, and I’m yet to see one in Australia, so will await further data.

@dracus16 said: Quick question: what does feeding a cat a banana do?

Quick answer: You will have fed it a banana.

It eats a whole bunch of starch and potassium that won’t do any harm to a normal cat. It’s far from a balanced diet, but the occasional banana nibble doesn’t concern me.

Anonymous said: Why does eating too well cause so many problems in horses?

Someone who’s still studying this can go into more details, but asides from potentially getting colic from either pasture which is too lush, or stomach ulcers from feed which is too rich in easily digestible carbohydrates, horses (and ponies) that are fat are at increased risk of laminitis, where their hoof can basically fall off.

@lunalcvegoocl said: Hi! Thankyou for all your advice and time and effort you put into this blog! I had a check out of previously answered questions but i dont think youve answered anything along these lines before! My pregnant dog (she is in her second term, getting regular vet check ups) has recently started going mad whenever there are certain foods around, foods she has never bothered about before, also foods that are poisons to her, chocolate is one of the biggest reactions, is it like the dog version of cravings? we have kept her on her regular food, the vet recommended one, yet while she has never begged before she will now growl and bark and whine if anyone has anything (like chocolate, or weirdly, eggs and cheese) that she wants. Is this normal or should we be worrying about her not having all her proper vitamins needed? do you know if theyre any way to find out what it is she is lacking in? (she is a shih tzu, just turned 4 years old, this is her only litter)

You can get blood levels for various vitamins and minerals checked (they’re expensive though), but I would suspect this is more likely behavioural, especially because she’s after chocolate and it’s easy to ‘spoil’ a dog who’s pregnant for the first time. I wouldn’t give in to her, especially with regard to teh chocolate.

Anonymous said: I know breeders would never let it happen, but what would you think about making the puggle the new pug? Their faces are still a little smushy but at least they have an actual visual nose, and they get also get more proportional legs from the beagle as well. I just think any pug/English bulldog/etc are unethical to breed since, ya know, they literally can't breathe, and they need to figure something out, and for pugs making the puggle the actual pug might be a solution?

A pug x beagle is not a ‘new pug’. While such a cross reduces some problems, It’s not going to solve all of them and is a lazy, short term solution. This is particularly the case if you have breed standards, and public desire, striving towards a flatter and flatter face.

I have talked about this before here.

What I personally would like to see is new gene infusions from multiple suitable breeds, then back crossing those mixes to pug lines, selecting for better faces, hips and spines. This will take a global effort and a lot of work to organize, but it would be the best long term solution.

Anonymous said: Hey Dr Ferox, I was wondering, how often have you seen yellow cats aka cats with yellow nose, gums, inner-ears etc.? One of our own turned to that shade and, without going into detail, he couldn't be helped. Just wondering if it's a common occurrence. As for the question tax: came for the breed evaluations, stayed for the fantasy biology and vet stories. I like reading your posts that come by on my dash!

I don’t see really yellow cats very often (they look like their blood has been flooded with yellow highlighter), but I have about a 50:50 track record for getting them to survive. By the time they’re that jaundiced, the poor things are very, very sick.

@phenolphthaleinfuchsia said: Do you find that cats that started their lives as strays tend to get more health problems later in life even if they are kept inside once they are adopted? My mom thinks it's true based on the four cats we've had but I'm not convinced. Her argument is they are exposed to more pathogens outside that could lurk in their bodies and cause problems later in life. And question tax: what did you choose as your first starter Pokemon?

I tend not to see this. For young kittens their main problems from being strays are parasites and malnutrition, which you can correct with some parasite treatment and good tucker. Older cats may have picked up viral infections, FIV and Feline Leukaemia being the most important too, but if they have avoided these specific diseases then they’re pretty hardy. Pedigree cattery cats may avoid the malnutrition, but they’re not guaranteed to be free of these diseases, and it’s common to see them with cat flu, so they’re not notably better off.

Anonymous said: Do you recommend getting pet insurance? Specifically, do you recommend getting it for sighthounds?

I recommend everyone have a financial plan for if their pet ever gets sick, and for most people that’s insurance. However, I’m not a financial adviser so I don’t recommend any brand in particular.

Anonymous said: Does heat effect the gender of all reptile eggs, or is it just for some reptiles?

I’m not a herpetologist, but firstly reptiles don’t have a gender, they have a sex. In many species it has been determined that temperature does play a role in skewing the percentages of either sex (pH and other water parameters can do this in fish too). Wikipedia has a good starting article.

Anonymous said: Do you get foxtails in Australia? Inspired by a very recent incident in which my cat got a foxtail in his eye.

Yes, we have that type of grass seed, but we don’t often use that name. They’re just a grass seed or an *expletive* grass seed.

@ mushymaman said: Do you often see working animals such as seeing-eye dogs or therapy pets or even police dogs or horses? Have you made any observations regarding them? I assume that they have to be especially well for their jobs and I always wondered what vets think of animals being relied on for important tasks.

The police usually have their own vets they prefer, but I see the occasional guide dog or seeing eye dog. They have a few extra challenges when it comes to medicating them, because instructions like “administer half a mil” is a challenge when you’re vision impaired.

I have treated a custom’s dog before, and had to write him a medical certificate to excuse him from work while he was healing after surgery.

Anonymous said: Can cats crack their knuckles? My cat uses his teeth to pull at his toes very hard when he's cleaning them, and I can hear an audible "pop" sound before he lets go. He does each toe very methodically. There are no wounds/scratches on close examination, touching and handling the toes produces no pain reaction, he is not limping or showing any sort of injury. Vet check reveals nothing out of ordinary. He does it about twice a day for all the toes. I've honestly never seen anything like this before

It’s possible, you could technically ‘crack’ any articular joint. I suppose he might also be cleaning his claws, but I can’t really speculate more than that.

Anonymous said: Going anon because I speak for all of us vetlings on a very important matter. May I politely demand more Trash Bag?

If you’re willing to come to my house and tell the little scamp to sit still more often for his photos, then sure. He’s a constantly moving target.

@ actual-dullahan said: A little "question tax" if you will, heh! If you could live in any video game for a day, what game would it be and why?

That’s an interesting and difficult question because video games either have very short days or lots of bad things happen and you’re likely to die

While there is a certain appeal to survival games where literally all you’re expected to do is find yourself some food and not annoy the monsters, I would probably choose the Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time. I’m still hugely fond of that game from my childhood, it was very pretty and the danger levels were manageable. And it was just pretty and peaceful a lot of the time.

#20 questions

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