#should I have a tag that's just talking about interesting articles

[yusuke-of-valla]

I don't want to be too mean because there's nothing objectively wrong with this article but the vibe I got reading this was like "it sounds like these are two valid approaches to writing romances and any flaws with them aren't inherent to the design choice so much as they're limited by the devs imagination and writing skill?"

But also like it's interesting to hear people talk about it and it brings up some interesting games I want to check out now, so like? Whatever? Objectively fine article, it's just going to be bugging me for the rest of the day.

I will make fun of this quote though:

“The difference between a bisexual character versus a playersexual character really is a matter of context,” Gaider says. “By calling a character ‘playersexual,’ you’re sort of erasing the fact that they are bisexual, but, the part where having a term for that becomes useful is when you start to investigate, like, why is this character bisexual?”

I'm sorry do I need a three page essay explaining why I'm bisexual? Do I need to bring this up on my tinder date? Damn I've been doing this wrong.

[neverendingford]

.

[belovedmusings]

Am I Playing All Right Now?

Kento Nanami x You

Explicit Smut 18+ (🚫Minors DNI🚫)

Kento Nanami has been your respectful, loving boyfriend for two months now. All you’ve done so far is kiss, and you want more with him. He refuses for your sake, warning of his roughness. So, you take matters into your own hands and convince him to put in ‘just the tip’. 

Relevant tags: just the tip challenge, dom! Kento Nanami, clothed sex, couch sex, clit slapping, brief use of leather belt, hard and rough sex, doggy-style, hair pulling, manhandling, big dick-Nanami <3, dirty talk, degrading, unprotected sex, creampie, I don't use "y/n" for immersion

Music recommended while reading: Dollhouse (The Weekend, Lily Rose Depp, …baby one more time (The Marias), Like U (Rosenfeld)

A/N: this is filthy and I love it, my first Nanami piece <3 enjoy!! (Read on Ao3 if you prefer!)

Read below cut:

The night had gone great. You two had a fantastic dinner at a fine restaurant, and now you’re at his house, getting hot and heavy on the couch. You’re sat in his lap, straddling his waist, the hem of your dress riding up your thighs as the fabric gives to accommodate him between your legs. Your hands are running over the muscles of his chest, only the thin layer of his dress shirt between your touch and his skin. His palms are on your waist, pulling you closer, pressing you so firmly against him that you can feel the blunt heat of his hard cock beneath the confines of his slacks. 

You can feel adrenaline pumping through your veins–tonight is the night. Every time you two get close to having sex, he pulls away, saying he isn’t ready, but right now it feels so different, so electric–

He hums, punctuating the kiss and pulling back, giving you room to breathe. Your stomach sinks, no, this isn’t what you want, you want–

“We should stop here for the night,” He murmurs, and you look into his eyes, a frown tugging your lips down at their corners. 

“But you’re hard,” You protest, “Kento, please…we’ve waited long enough, and you clearly want this…”

His jaw tightens as he takes a breath. “I do…but we can’t.”

Now you’re just confused. “...can’t?”

He sighs heavily, giving you no explanation, but nodding. “Now, let’s m–”

“No, hold on,” You interrupt him, “Kento, tell me why? I-is it me? Do you…not want…?”

“It’s definitely not you,” He dispels quickly, “It’s me, okay?”

“What about you?” You press, searching his eyes. “Is it…are you…worried about your performance?”

That gets him to widen his eyes a fraction in surprise. “N-no, it’s not that. It’s…alright, look, it’s…it’s that I don’t want to hurt you.”

It isn’t enough of an answer for you. “And…what do you mean by that?”

“You…you know me to be this nice, gentlemanly man, don’t you?” He asks, a sort of resigned weight to his eyes. “Which, I am. But not when it comes to sex.”

The wheels turn in your head. “So…you’re…?”

“I’m rough,” He finally states, “And it’s…it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I’m afraid to hurt you or scare you away. Of course I wouldn’t do anything you don’t want, but…you just seem so sweet and–”

“Woah,” You stop him in the middle of his sentence. “Do you think you’re the only one with duality? You don’t think I can be different in bed? Do you think I’m some porcelain doll you’ll break if you’re not careful?”

He considers this for a moment before sighing. “You don’t understand.”

“So then make me understand,” You challenge him, running your hands up his chest. “Please, Kento. I can take it.”

“No,” He denies, “You don’t know what you’re asking for.”

Seeing his hesitance, you decide to switch tactics. You reach for his hands on your waist, taking his wrists and raising his palms up to the front of your dress. You guide them to rest over your breasts, allowing him to touch them through the thin cloth. You’d decided not to wear a bra for the night since the article had thin straps, and he immediately can feel that, a flash of desire flitting within his eyes.

Riding the wave of his interest, you tell him, “I want you bad, Kento.”

He inhales forcefully, allowing himself to knead the soft flesh beneath his hands. His thumbs graze over your hardening nipples, your teeth dragging over your bottom lip instinctively. To drive your point home, you grind down on him, the only thing on beneath your dress being the panties you’d hoped he’d see when you had put them on earlier in the day.

“You’re playing dangerous,” He warns, voice thin and strained. 

“Maybe I want dangerous.”

He finally lets out a groan, surging forward and capturing your lips in another kiss. It’s more forceful this time, and all you can do is give complete control to him. 

He flips your positions so smoothly, you hardly feel it; you just suddenly feel your back hit the cushion of his couch, a gasp pushed from your mouth. His hands make quick work sliding up your dress, fingers hooking underneath your waistband.

Kento speaks against your mouth lowly. “Lace?”

You swallow hard, nodding. “Yeah.”

“Expensive?”

The question catches you off guard. “Uh, no, not r–”

A swift, harsh tug and the sound of fabric ripping later, he holds the scrap lace in his hand, now mangled and unusable. He just tore them clean off.

“Holy shit,” You breathe, now suddenly aware of how bare you are beneath your dress. He must become aware of that fact too, because without a moment to spare, he’s pushing the article up to your waist, exposing you to his eyes. A rosy flush spreads over the bridge of your nose as he looks at your naked lower half unabashedly, a type of hunger you have never seen before nor known he was capable of in his eyes.

He tosses your ruined panties to the floor and fiddles with his belt, undoing the buckle. Your gaze follows his movements, watching his hands expertly tug the leather strap from its loops in his pants.

Then, he surprises you by holding the edge without the buckle and running it along your inner thigh. You shiver, observing him and wondering what his next move will be. He runs it all the way up, reaching the apex of your leg and placing it right over your mound. The cool leather feels unfamiliar there.

“Can I?”

Your attention is pulled to his voice, and for a moment you aren’t sure what he means. Then it dawns on you.

Oh.

No one’s ever done that to you. But…you aren’t opposed. You’re curious.

You nod.

“Words.”

Oh, damn.

“Yes, you can.”

“Good girl.”

You don’t have time to pay attention to the rush of hormones that praise gives you, because a harsh sting of pleasure suddenly hits your senses as he brings the end of the belt down, slapping your clit with it.

“Ah!” You jump slightly, shock, arousal, and fascination flooding you all at once.

“How was that?” He asks, watching you carefully. You take stock of yourself…and are intrigued to find that you liked it. As soon as you realize that, you understand that Kento is about to show you an entire new world previously unexplored to you.

Your eyes lock with his. “It was good.”

A mixture of relief and desire swarm his gaze. “You liked that?”

“Yeah.”

Without warning, he does it again, a little harder, and you cry out this time, unused to the strangely welcome sensation.

“Still good?”

“Yes.”

“Good girl.”

Your next breath is shaky. “More.”

He wastes no time in delivering exactly what you want. Over and over again, until your pearl is red and swollen and the folds beneath are glistening with need, belt shiny with a bit of it. He stops once you reach this state, making sure you see as he licks it off the belt. Your lips part, entranced, and he drops the accessory, instead moving to undo the front of his slacks. Your heart begins racing–but then he pauses, seeming to deflate slightly.

“I’m not gonna go all the way,” He states, “I don’t have condoms.”

“What?” Your voice is more than a little indignant. “But…how?”

“I wasn’t planning to do this tonight.”

He pulls his cock from its restriction in his briefs, pushing his waistbands down to the tops of his thighs, and the sight of the thick, red shaft as your mouth watering and your core pulsing around nothing. 

You think he’s changed his mind as he lines it up, but then he just glides it against your folds, coating it in your essence and using it to rub against you, the feeling intense due to the sensitivity of your previously abused clit, but not what you crave.

“Kento,” You whimper, watching him rub himself off as he plays with you using his cock. “Please…”

“We’re not risking a pregnancy,” He maintains, “It’s not wise.”

You are beyond frustrated at this point, entrance weeping for attention, and you swear the desire is so bad you can feel your entire core sore and empty, vying to be filled and stretched.

What can you say that will get him to do it, even just a little bit?

Wait. Just a little bit.

“What about just the tip?”

His eyes narrow. “What?”

“Just the tip,” it comes out needier than you had intended, but god damn it you’re horny and all out of shame twice over.

Kento takes a good look at you, at himself and the position you’re in, sucking in a controlled breath for the umpth time that night.

Then, he lines up again, cockhead pressing against your entrance. “You’re going to regret asking for it.”

Is he challenging you? Whatever. What. Ever. You’ve reached a point where if you don’t get his cock soon your heart may actually give out. 

“Let me decide that.”

His jaw sets tightly before finally, finally, he cants his hips forward, pushing the tip of his shaft inside of you. 

As soon as it’s in, your head falls back on the couch, hips starting to roll without your permission. Your body wants him all on its own, and you’re no longer in command of it. He groans, pulling out and then pushing it back in, only the tip again, and you whimper in half bliss and half frustration.

You want more. 

You understand the true meaning of temptation now. You’ve had the first bite of the proverbial apple, and it’s shocking how eager you are to devour the rest to its core.

Everytime he pushes in, never going past the smooth head of his cock, you moan, wordlessly begging for more. There’s a worry in his brow and a tenseness to his jaw that indicates just how much self-control he’s exercising, and as you look up at him, you realize he’s still pretty much fully clothed—his tie is pristine around his neck, shirt fully buttoned up, only his dick out and vulnerable to your eyes. 

It’s unfair, and you seek to change that.

Your hand loops into his tie and yanks him down by it, taking him by surprise. He has to catch himself on his hands to avoid falling on you, a grunt escaping his lips as it causes him to slide further into you.

In a lowered hiss, he asks you, “what do you think you’re doing?”

The tone is so vindictive it has any words dying on your tongue. All it takes is a moment before he’s forcefully breathing out and lifting himself off of you, cock withdrawing from between your legs.

You open your mouth to protest, and that’s when your world spins. 

You were face up, but now you’re on your hands and knees on the couch, having to brace yourself as he manhandles you silently. There’s not even a moment for you to acclimate to your new position before you feel his fingers loop through your hair as you’d done to his belt, and in one motion, he grabs your hip with his free hand and slams all the way into you, pulling your hair back hard to make you arch for him.

A loud cry splits through the air and it’s only when he starts repeatedly fucking hard and fast into you with the entirety of his monstrous size that you realize the sound was from you.

“See what happens when you push me?” His voice is hoarse and gritty, more like a growl than a whisper, a dull ache inside of you where he’s currently remolding the shape of your walls.

All you can do is make incoherent noises, and you aren’t sure whether they’re from pain, pleasure, or a mixture of both. His grip on your hair isn’t letting up and it hurts, but you’ve also never felt so completely out of control of yourself and somehow it just feels freeing to you. 

“Huh?” He asks, and it’s then you realize you never replies to him verbally. You muster up the strength to speak.

“Y-yeah…” it sounds breathy and whiney, completely foreign in the contours of your voice.

“You happy now? Happy you got me to fuck you like the greedy whore you are?”

The harsh word ripples through you hotly and you moan, nodding as good as you can. “Yes…”

“Yes?” He asks, breathless, and he lets go of your hair in favor of wrapping his hand around your neck from behind. “You like being screwed like a whore?”

Apparently, you do. This is new information to you as well. You nod, gasping as he grabs your hand and presses it over your abdomen, where you can feel the flesh rising and falling in tandem with his thrusts. 

“Feel that?” He asks, “that’s me inside of you.”

“Oh god,” You rasp, the knowledge of him so deep inside your body going right to your head. You can feel your mound weeping all over yours and his thighs, the wet slap tell-tale of just how much you’re enjoying this. Just the realization has you fluttering around him, a sensation that isn’t lost on him.

“Fuck,” he breathes, “You really do like this, huh?”

You nod. “Yes, yes, Kento…”

He groans, leaning forward and kissing the juncture of your neck and shoulder, brushing your hair out of the way. 

“Such a good girl for me…my good little slut.”

You shudder, eyes squeezing shut as he speeds his movements up, the hand that was pressing yours to your stomach moving down to the slippery mess that is your swollen clit.

The big palm of his on your neck slides the thin straps of your dress down your shoulders and dips into the neckline of it, grasping your breast as if to claim ownership of it. 

“Oh my god,” You breathe again, hips twitching at all of the stimulation, face hot, entrance thoroughly fucked open and sloppy, debauched by Kento like a destructive form of artwork.

His middle finger massages circles into your sensitive pearl as he continues the grueling pace of his hips, lips pressed to the back of your neck, and all at once it becomes too much.

It crashes into you like the unforgiving wave of the raging ocean, sweeping you into the depths of pleasure.

You cum so hard on his cock he physically has to stop moving, your hold on him so tight he’s locked inside of you. That’s the moment that he follows, spilling his pent up, heavy load into you with a hiss of pleasure. 

Your arms and knees feel like jelly. Your walls are sore and throbbing, completely exhausted from his ravaging. But all you feel is feather-light. Finally, finally you did it. And it was better than your wildest imagination.

Lips place a tender kiss on your shoulder, his labored breaths slowing back to regulation. You feel his cheek rest upon the skin of your upper back. Both of his hands massaging along the sides of your hips.

“I’m sorry we waited so long. I just figured it would be too intense for you.”

You shake your head, turning it to look back at him as he straightens up and carefully pulls out. 

“Don’t do that again.”

The corner of his lips turns up slightly. “Oh no, I won’t make that mistake twice. In fact…there’s something else I want to do now.”

“And what’s that?”

“I want to test your limits.”

__

A/N: here's my Nanami masterlist :) this is the first piece but lmk what else you want me to write for him! Hope you enjoyed.

[rewatching-sam-and-dean]

I normally try not to weigh in too much on the actors themselves, but fandom is being hysterical (not in the funny way) as usual after The Boys promo video with J2 and Misha.

Here are some facts:

Jensen went to Kripke and asked if he had anything for him after SPN ended. Kripke helped him craft his audition until it would be acceptable for the other producers. We know this happened because Jensen told us, and he talked about it multiple times. There is nothing wrong with him going to Kripke for work. This is networking, and it’s what actors should do.

Jared never once publicly asked to be on The Boys. At most, he answered fan questions when asked what kind of character he’d like to play, but he never actually hinted he wanted a part. In articles, when asked if he’d join, Jared essentially said he was too busy filming Walke, in a polite way. Also fact, Kripke has hinted at wanting Jared on The Boys before Walker was cancelled, and he did so publically. Then when Walker was cancelled, Kripke really ramped up the public pitches to get Jared on the show, and was publicly psyched when Jared finally agreed. Jared never, publicly at least, even asked or hinted at wanting to be on The Boys, never mind begged.

Misha hinted multiple times publicly, including tagging Kripke on social media directly, that he’d like to be on the show. Kripke never said anything publicly, as far as I’m aware, about wanting or trying to get Misha on the show prior to the announcement from yesterday. When he talked about getting the biggest SPN Pokémon, it was when Jared finally signed on. When he talked about breaking the internet again, it was in reference to a J2 reunion on screen. When he talked about reuniting the SPN trio, it was in reference to JA, JP and JDM, not Misha. Was Kripke always planning to include Misha once he finally got Jared? Maybe. Is it possible he wasn’t going to bother with Misha until or unless he got Jared too? Yes. He could have hired Misha on at any time before and never did. Misha definitely publicly begged to be on the show, and Kripke never said anything in return to, or regarding, him being on the show until now. Kripke probably only brought him on because he thought of something funny/gross/trolling to do with J2 and him on screen.

Ultimately, I would have preferred not to have Misha in The Boys because when I finally get to see J2 on screen together, I didn’t really want him there, too. It feels like trying to shoehorn Castiel in with the brothers again from forced SPN scenes. But, I’ve also lost interest in the show itself, so I’ll probably pick and choose what moments I bother to watch anyway.

That being said, The Boys has a whole cast beyond Jensen being a regular in Season 5, never mind it being a giant J2 reunion that will take up a bunch of screen time. So, adding Misha to the mix isn’t exactly robbing fans of long and significant J2 moments on screen. (Though I’d still be happy for him not to be in their scenes at all).

Honestly, Kripke probably wanted Jared so bad, at least in part, so he could bank on free publicity in social media from Jared and J2 fans. He already had the Jensen fans on board. Similarly, he probably decided to add Misha for the same reason. Happy or not about his addition, people are talking about it on many social media platforms, this bring free attention yo the show.

Kripke just wants publicity.

What I want is to get out of this is at least one solid (hopefully more), Misha-less moment between J2 on screen.

But people are really losing their shit over what might amount to like 5 minutes of screen time from Jared and/or Misha. Jensen’s Soldier Boy isn’t even one of the main cast members, even either him being a regular this season, so I doubt there will be a lot of room to expand on a character for Jared (never mind Misha) and then interacting, on a show that’s on its final season and has many storylines to wrap up.

Anyway, in conclusion, only one member of J2M begged for a part in The Boys, and Kripke is using all of them to generate buzz. Simple as that.

[cheriladycl01]

The Rookie Prodigy - Carlos Sainz x Driver! Reader Part 9

Plot: You are a rookie coming into the 2022 season of Formula One into Alfa Romeo with team member Zhou Guanyu, being in a mid tier team can you help them rise up the ranks. What pressures occur for the only rookies within the 2022 line up!

Guys i feel like i have so many series out, i forget so easily the plots and stuff so going back and reading 8 parts takes a while so sorry that these are pretty slow! But hopefully i have more time now!

You and Carlos didn't really talk about you staying with him and no-one else found out. You remained in his home, which was awkward for him to explain why there was a girl staying with them, a driver no less.

But once he'd explained what happened to your home and how you felt you were met with open arms, particularly by his dad who seemed more than happy to have you around as he was able to talk to you openly about rally and how he was looking to participate again.

It was a very long week where you didn't leave the house at all. You remained tucked away until you met Zhou for the drive to the track. All of the team was fussing over you and you didnt know why.

"Oh my gosh Y/N? Are you alright?"

"It cant have been easy, i dont know how you're staying so strong!"

"These fans are crazy, but you should have told us. We'd have stayed with you! Cant believe you were alone!"

"Wait, whats happened?" you ask looking at all of them.

"We've seen the article about your house being broken into. Says it happened twice! Your dad was there the second time!" she says and you can feel your heart sink. You'd turned your phone off as it was relentless with every app whether it was comments or tags people were blowing up your phone with notifications.

"Wait my dad was there? I only knew about the first time is he okay?" you ask the social media manager who starts to pull up articles as you try to turn your phone on with shaky hands.

"I'm not sure it says it's suggested he's in critical condition" she explains but the words seem to blur as the apple logo comes onto your screen showing you that your phone is rebooting. You turn away as the team member is mid sentence, walking off somewhere round the back the try and calm down, looking through your phone.

You put your phone straight into do not disturb and go straight to the messages seeing both your parents and some friends have in fact messaged you about what happened.

Your fingers fumble, trying hard to get to the correct app as quickly as possible rather than flicking through random apps due to your brain just melting on the spot. You keep your head clear enough to get you to Whattsap, seeing many messages from friends and family. Even some of the drivers had messaged to make sure you were okay.

Lewis was one of them.

You swiftly reply to everyone assuring them you are okay, whilst having phoned your mum to see how your dad was. He had a bruise on his face, clearly he had put up a fight protecting your property which made tears brim your eyes.

"Dad, I'm so sorry" you say looking over him, stiff as a board despite the smile living his face.

"It's okay, honestly it isn't as bad as it looks, i didn't even have to go to the hospital. They pretty much left the minute they realised the place wasn't abandoned and decided today wasnt the day to risk getting caught" he explains and you're happy to feel some relief that it wasn't as bad as the article had let on, saying 'he could be in critical condition but family has yet to speak out.

She couldn't fathom why people were so interested in her life that it went as far as to extend to her parents and how they were and what they were doing.

Seeing your dad sat with a huge plate of dinner, your mum waiting on his hand and food referring to him as the brave hero whenever he asked her for something. Which she was right, he was a lot braver than her having stayed the house to watch over it.

Your dad, being your dad, said not to worry about all of this and too just focus on the race ahead which was the most important thing for the weekend. The police were doing everything they could to make sure the house was safe going forward. You just had to have faith and get focused.

Which when Zhou rounded the corner, he was shocked to see that split second decision to cross your face, a sad overwhelmed anxiety ridden girl had turned into a feirce and focused lady.

He was impressed with how quickly he'd seen that change occur.

"Y/N?"

"Zhou?" you ask turning round to see your racing partner.

"I saw the articles, is everyone okay?" he asks coming up to you.

"I just got off the phone with my dad, he's okay. But i was just really worried" you explain, a sigh of relief leaving the both of you.

"That's good, and atleast the police seem to be taking it seriously. Do you recon you'll go back before Monaco?" he asks looking over you, holding onto your wrist to make sure everything is okay.

"No, i cant even look at my place" you sigh.

"Well, I'm getting a hotel so you can stay with me. I don't mind, we're used to it anyway!" he offers and you smile, thankful to have Zhou as a close friend.

"Yeah, i think that would be good. I would see if i could stay with Lewis or Max but ... i don't want anymore trouble than one photo, one interaction has already caused me" you explain looking at him, he guides you back to the Alfa Romeo unit, walking into the hospitality as you guys continue to talk about everything that has happened.

"Yeah can we have 2 of the super smoothies please?" he asks politely before getting straight back into conversation with you. "So this has all happened because one picture came out about an interaction between you and Lewis in the paddock?" he asks in disbelief.

"Where have you stayed since Miami" Zhou asks.

"Erm, well i actually stayed with Carlos for a bit, i didn't want to risk staying with my parents incase that got them involved or doxxed" you offer to Zhou whose eyes widen in shock.

"You're playing a dangerous game Y/N! The whole reason you ended up in this mess in the first place because you were seen with a male driver!" Zhou says softly taking your arm as the concered friend he is. You couldn't understand the difference between yours and Zhou's friendship vs you and Lewis or you and Carlos.

"Why don't they hate me talking to you then?" you push, crossing your arms over one another.

"Well, i don't have many crazy fans, but Lewis and Carlos do... thats where it comes from!" he explains and you take a seat slumping into it.

Why'd life off the track have to be so exhausting.

"I don't know how much longer i can deal with this Zhou" you sigh, looking up and thanking the girl who'd brought over your drinks.

"You can, and i promise you it will get easier!" he smiles.

Taglist:

@littlebitchsposts @hockey-racing-fubol @laura-naruto-fan1998 @22yuki @simxican @sinofwriting @lewisroscoelove @cmleitora @daemyratwst @lauralarsen @the-untamed-soul @thewulf @itsjustkhaos @purplephantomwolf @chasing-liberosis @summissss @gulphulp @starfusionsworld @jspitwall @sierruhhhh @georgeparisole @youcannotcancelquidditch @tallbrownhairsarcastic @ourteenagetragedy @peachiicherries @formulas-bitch @cherry-piee @spilled-coffee-cup @mehrmonga @curseofhecate @alliwantisadonut @dark-night-sky-99 @i-wish-this-was-me @tallrock35 @butterfly-lover @barnestatic @landossainz @darleneslane @barcelonaloverf1life @r0nnsblog @ilove-tswizzle @laneyspaulding19 @malynn @landosgirlxoxo @marie0v @yourbane @teamnovalak @nikfigueiredo @fionaschicken @0picels0 @tinydeskwriter @ironmaiden1313 @splaterparty0-0 @formula1mount

[relentlesslyexisting]

Hi! You have so much cool info on your blog, can you share some of your resources on researching and academic reading of shojo??

Wow, I'm really happy you feel that way ;_;

In terms of sources, lets get the boring stuff out of the way first. These books and essays are sorta "shoujo manga history 101," and if you've seen any shitty youtube video about the history of shoujo manga, these sources are gonna sound really familiar. (I'm just gonna copy paste from my bibliography basically)

Boys' Love Manga and Beyond : History, Culture, and Community in Japan (McLelland, Mark J, Kazumi Nagaike, Katsuhiko Suganuma, and James Welker)

A Life-Size Mirror: Women’s Self-Representation in Girls’ Comics.” Review of Japanese Culture and Society 4 (Yukari Fujimoto, and Julianne Dvorak)

Fantasies of Cross-Dressing : Japanese Women Write Male-Male Erotica (Kazumi Nagaike)

 “The Formation of Postwar Shōjo Manga, 1950–1969.” In Passionate Friendship: The Aesthetics of Girls’ Culture in Japan (Deborah Shamoon)

“Shojo Manga! Girls’ Comics! A Mirror of Girls’ Dreams.” Mechademia 2 (Masami Toku)

“Beautiful, Borrowed, and Bent: ‘Boys’ Love’ As Girls’ Love in Shôjo Manga.” Signs 31, no. 3 (James Welker)

The articles on this list I have read to completion, but my approach to longer books is to just read the chapters that sound interesting to me. James Welker is really nice, top tier Gilbert penis academic. I owe him my life. All of these are available in English, and if you have the means I highly recommend poking around Jstor if you wanna find more. These are some sources I cherry picked from my senior thesis bibliography, but if you DM me I can give you the whole thing.

The essays written in the backs of English language manga publications of some manga are great too. I really enjoyed reading the essay in the English release of Talk Me Back by Murasaki Yamada. (The essays in the back of Japanese reprints are also pretty cool, but far less accessible)

Another great resource is this other blog https://www.tumblr.com/brickme

She used to have a useful page where you could pick through her tags to get her translations and manga history rambles, but that page is gone and it seems shes on hiatus, so digging that stuff up might take some more poking around. I used to read her posts on slow days at work, hours of entertainment really. Some tags that might help in searching her blog are: #text post and #replies

The more fun sources are the primary ones. Articles written in June magazine and books written by the authors that penned manga classics. Author interviews are great too. But I can't stress enough that the best way to gain insight on shoujo manga is to read a shit ton of it. And not just shoujo manga, manga in general. The best part of academic resources is finding new interesting things to read. In fact, I really should be reading more.

[neil-gaiman]

Hello Mr Gaiman, if you don't mind, could you please tell me if the fact that you once asked an official in China that Chinese people need more sci-fi stories to fuel their imagination and hence innovation, hence their invitation of sci-fi writers and yourself many years ago, was a true conversation?

I once found this in one of your journals but somehow I couldn't find it anymore and thinking of digging deeper in your archives through China tags sound way too daunting as I just had many exams today and in one essay I cited this very example and you in it to prove a point that scientists need artists (I see writers as artists too) in this world, and now I'm kind of freaking out on whether I hallucinated the whole story or something.

Whatever it is, if you managed to read this ask, thanks a lot and hope you have a good day/night ahead!

It was in 2007 in Chengdu, at the first offically approved and endorsed SF convention. Here's Bob Sawyer talking about it on his web site at the time:

And here's Michael Swanwick:

and a Chinese article from the time:

And yes. When I asked why the disapproval of SF had turned to approval, I was told that Chinese fact-finding conversations at Apple, Microsoft and Google had revealed that most of the engineers, creators, designers and inventors had read SF when younger and had become interested in making what they made because of SF, and that the official Chinese position in 2007 was that SF should now be encouraged -- thus the convention.

From the article at the time:

The 2007 China (Chengdu) SF/Fantasy Conference hosted the event. The theme: “Science, Imagination and Future” is an ambitious Chinese effort designed to inspire public creativity toward future scientific and technological development as well as promote national insight for scientific exploration. The conference has been scheduled immediately before the World Science Fiction Convention in Yokohama, Japan.

The conference has designated August 25 as “China Imagination Day”. SF and fantasy lovers signed their names on a banner to commemorate this day during the opening ceremony.

“Imagination is an important premise for creativity. Science fiction literature plays an important role in inspiring people’s imagination and creativity,” said Li Xiuting, vice director of the International Department of the China Association for Science and Technology, at the opening ceremony on Saturday.

“Our (science fiction) words become the world and our words become places that you can visit. They become books and stories that inspire people. It is both surprising and reassuring to know by accident that the places have helped to make a future we are now living. Places like Microsoft and Google, Apple and places like MIT are packed with science fiction readers and fantasy readers,” Neil Gaiman said on Saturday.

[buffyfan145]

Just saw about the news "Rings of Power" has cast Jamie Campbell Bower and Eddie Marsan in roles for season 3!!! 😀 I've been a fan of both for years and they're great actors. Jamie's is a series regular while Eddie's is recurring. I do think Jamie is an elf or human, while Eddie is likely a dwarf and possibly Durin's brother.

With Jamie there had been rumors that he had been cast since Megacon Orlando as he told fans that he finally was cast in a non-villain role and was very excited for the project. Seeing the articles, especially Deadline's, that he's not only a series regular but it is for the "high born knight" casting call that was posted in January he very likely is going to be Celeborn, Glorfindel, or Anarion. The show's writers already told us at SD Comic Con that all 3 of those characters will be coming on the show soon and with the time jump it works for all 3.

Now also tagging this as Haladriel as the Deadline article speculated he could be Celeborn and mentioned that Halbrand/Sauron was "Galadriel's love interest". 😏 Some fans might now know this but back before season 1 aired various articles talking about the show all said that he was her love interest, which shocked the fandom as they didn't know the show was going to say that Celeborn died. So very interesting that Deadline worded it this way again as a lot of us are wondering how the show is going to do this not only with them having had Haladriel being a romantic ship, but how popular it is. I always said I hope Celeborn is played by an actor I'm a fan of as I want to like him too and be ok with Galadriel being with him, that he looks a bit like Charlie, is close in age to Morfydd and Charlie, and I am a fan of Jamie and I do see a resemblance. LOL 😀 Will be interesting if the show does go full love triangle as I don't see them ever getting rid of the Haladriel dynamic either, but more that Galadriel is always torn between the two of them and with Sauron always trying to reach out to her all the way till Frodo destroys the One Ring.

But again he very well could also be Glorfindel or Anarion as they should be in season 3 as well.

So again I'm very happy to see these two have been cast and to find out who they're playing. We'll get more casting news soon that will help us figure out more who exactly they're playing and the season's storylines.

[folcanta]

hmm

kind of funny to hear this from a complete and total stranger when this is the post directly preceding it... i think in general i'm owning my subjective, gratuitously self-serving vision pretty well!

edit 2 as i think about this more, i feel like an idiot dignifying this stranger's remark. i don't set out to be purposefully mean to people and i'm sorry i made you feel bad (although i don't think that's the issue here) but i have no responsibility to you personally. you acknowledge that you are a stranger to me. just because we like the same anime doesn't give you the right to speak to me this way nor am i beholden to rules i didn't sign up for. i shouldn't even have to say this!

that post was Never tagged escaflowne! i was Not inviting the fandom to it! to my knowledge i've had 2 disagreements within the fandom, both on discord. one was a miscommunication and the other a difference of opinion that i don't think was handled well by the group. i have zero interest in delving back into it. on tumblr i once reblogged a post whose points i disagreed with, adding a couple alternatives. i was told that this was a fine and normal thing to do.

"the word of truth." i don't think so. to react this way to a sincere expression of both gratitude and, to a lesser extent, hurt, is crazy. do you think i expect people to congratulate me for... posts? or that i'm not ELATED when someone understands where i'm coming from? or that i don't get hurt by ignorance and intentionally inflammatory remarks? the standards you hold me to are only that: yours. so please do not feel spurred to comment just because i mention Escaflowne. permission to ignore me and rest assured that i won't randomly show up in your mentions. or would that be preferable?

if there's some rule from long ago that i should know about: i don't. not everyone knows everyone and not everything is an invitation.

edit a friend pointed out that this fandom doesn't get the constant churn of new people unlike bigger ones. there's not the constant flux of newer/younger people coming in with newer/younger ideas and changing the state of the scene that way.

fwiw, this is where i come to write in long-form. i'm almost always referring to things that happen off-site and in my posts i'll usually specify if it's articles/reddit/bluesky/etc., many of which you've all liked/reblogged/replied to. what exactly is verboten about folding an opinion into a larger dissection? if it's one you yourself hold, i'm sorry if it feels like a personal attack. it isn't. unless i'm directly reblogging/responding to you, it's almost guaranteed that i didn't hear it from you first. check my last analytical post to see how i do it.

i'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings on purpose. i don't whine about being misunderstood, i talk about Escaflowne being misunderstood— by the larger public. there's a lot in there to talk about! many ways to look at it! and to that end: the writing i do on Escaflowne has nothing to do with thinking i'm The Most Smartest And Correctest. i'm not interested in that kind of competition. i don't think about you that way. i just like what i like and want to talk about it. if i'm hurt by something i will voice it, and i don't think that makes me exceptional. it sure seems like everyone else acts the same way.

i appreciate the people who have been kind and willing to talk to me and treat me like a human being. thank you. this fandom can be inscrutable as i seem to communicate very differently, so i appreciate your consideration and patience.

[olderthannetfic]

I don't even think this is the type of thing you would normally get Asks about, but at this point I genuinely can't think of anyone better to come to and ask for their opinion.

I don't know if any of your followers have seen this situation as it's been occurring, but this massively popular mobile game that's been blowing up recently (called Love and Deep Space) has incurred a lot of drama and discourse as of a few days ago.

So LADS is an otome game, with a visibly femme/female protagonist who romances the male love interests. And a few days ago, the dev team behind LADS introduced this rule to all of their official groups and servers like Facebook and Discord: "Absolutely no BL materials are allowed to be posted or discussed in official spaces"

So, naturally, quite a few people are upset about what is basically a "no gays allowed" rule being forced onto the fandom. Because the "no BL" rules includes the posting of ANY queer content with "official" #LADS tags. Which for platforms like Twitter is absolutely unreasonable. They're stating that fanart of M/M ships can't be posted with any tags for the source material? It's ridiculous.

There's been people trying to defend it, saying things like "oh it's because of CN censorship laws" despite the fact that LADS isn't a CN game and the company isn't a CN company. Or "they only banned queer stuff in their official Discord and official Facebook group and for the official LADS tags on socmed!" even though that is still censorship and erasure of queer content (and somehow the fact that it's officially sanctioned makes it okay?)

But the worst part is the fact that there’s been an EXPLOSION of aggressive homophobia within the fanbase. It's as if all the cishet women who play the game were just waiting for their chance to go mask off, because the second those "no BL" rules were put in place the rampant harrassment and bullying started. People are getting attacked for M/M ship fanart, people are getting attacked for having male self-inserts or male MC or OC designs, and several artists have already been harrassed into deleting all of their artwork and leaving the fandom.

There's now a LOUD number of fans screeching that otome games "are only for girls" and that anyone even slightly queer or masc-leaning "doesn't belong in otome fandoms" and "needs to go play something else"

I've seen baseless accusations that "men want to force us to play as a gay male MC!" and "gay men are demanding that LADS turn the female MC male!" when absolutely no one anywhere has ever said anything close to that.

I have tried telling these fans that queer people, including queer men, have ALWAYS played otome games, that gay men and queer people have ALWAYS been a part of the otome community from the very beginning, but anyone who deviates even slightly from the new majority of "no gay shit allowed, otome is for straight women only and everyone else kys" gets immediately shouted down and harrassed/attacked. I know a lot of people have deleted the game and have stopped playing because of both the official "no gays" rule and also the extremely toxic and homophobic fanbase.

I was wondering if you knew about any resources (blogs, articles, anything) talking about the history of queer people playing otome/dating sim games, or even if you happen to know anything anecdotal about it yourself. Because we've ALWAYS been here, otome games have never been JUST for cishet women. I'm also just wondering what your/your followers' thoughts are about this whole mess in general.

--

Oof. I don't play many games of that sort, so I don't know a ton about their history, but there has often been pointless beef between the more self inserty types and the more m/m shipping types.

I don't think you need evidence that people besides cishet women consume media X. It should be self-evident from being a human who lives in the world. These people are denying it because they don't want it to be true, not because they do or don't have evidence.

"LOL, you're a homophobe in 2024? Criiiinge!" is the only appropriate type of response to these idiots. Facts won't help.

[babyrdie]

Could you share that text about Patroclus? You said it was not a very interesting topic but I'm still interested in Patroclus posting!!

How Patroclus looked?

Okay, but I warned you it was a lot of text for a random and not very relevant topic. This post is me trying to get an idea of ​​how the ancients imagined Patroclus in terms of physical appearance. Note that this post:

It isn’t written with the intention of indicating to people how they should imagine Patroclus. As is notable in the sources here, not even the authors agree with each other and Patroclus' appearance seems to have been much more uncertain compared to characters like Odysseus and Achilles, whose iconography is generally quite recognizable.

It's not educational. This is more of me sharing how I'm so obsessed with Patroclus that I desperately need more content to the point that I'm here using my time to do something so... specific. As someone who doesn't know Greek and isn't an expert on Greek culture, I'm not posting this with the intention of providing educational information. You know when someone posts about an obscure official art of a character from a game? Well, it's more like that. Don't take me too seriously. This post being just a random moment also explains why I'm not even giving information about the sources listed, as I usually do.

It’s written by someone who knows neither Greek nor Latin. As will become quite obvious, I just obsessively compare online dictionaries, different translations and read articles explaining possible meanings of a word/phase. In turn, note that, as the intention is to get an idea of ​​how the ancients saw the character, I’m focusing on more literal translations. It doesn't mean that because one translator here sounds less literal than the other that his translation is bad, they’re just different ways of translating. 

It doesn’t include all existing representations of Patroclus. For example, I’m not considering things like medieval Italian, French, etc texts. I’m considering ancient Greek and Roman texts + Byzantine texts. For visual representations, I’m considering Etruscan ones as well. And even then, I’m obviously not going to collect them all by myself.

Since I didn't intend to post this, I just made a brief edit to make the text more "readable". However, it's still a pretty dubious edit, so I'm going to disable reblogging to prevent a post with a glaring error from being immortalized in a reblog. If you want to talk about it, comment, ask, send a DM, whatever. But unfortunately, no reblog tags.

The Iliad, Homer

In Book 16, Patroclus arms himself with Achilles' armor to go to war since Achilles still refuses to fight. He takes everything except the spear, as it is said that no one but Achilles can lift it. But while Patroclus has difficulty with the spear, he has no difficulty with the armor. There is no mention of it being too loose or too tight, which could be interpreted as Achilles and Patroclus being similar in size:

So he spoke, and Patroclus began to arm himself with gleaming bronze.  First he strapped the splendid greaves around his shins, fitted with silver bindings around his ankles; next he girt about his chest the breastplate— elaborate, star-strewn—of swift-footed Aeacides; across his shoulders he slung his bronze sword studded with silver; and then the great strong shield; over his powerful head he placed the well-forged helmet with its flowing horsehair; and terribly the crest nodded on it. He took strong spears, fitted to his hand. Only the spear of blameless Aeacides he did not take up, heavy, massive, powerful; this no other of the Achaeans could wield, but only Achilles knew how to wield it, the spear of Pelian ash, which Chiron gave to his beloved father from the heights of Mount Pelion to be death to warriors.

16.130-144. Translation by Caroline Alexander.

In comparison, when Hector wears armor in Book 17 (he got it from Patroclus, now dead), Zeus makes the armor grow to fit Hector, possibly indicating that Hector is larger than both Patroclus and Achilles:

[...] and the son of Cronus nodded with his blue-black brows; he fitted the armor upon Hector’s body, and the terrible battle spirit  of Ares entered him, and Hector’s limbs were filled inside with strength and courage. And he went toward his illustrious allies crying aloud, and appeared to them all made bright by the armor of the great-hearted son of Peleus [...]

17.208-214 . Translation by Caroline Alexander.

But there is a problem here. It’s possible, of course, to interpret that Achilles and Patroclus are similar in size, but Hector is larger than both. This wouldn’t be impossible if we try to rationalize it with ideas like “well, Achilles is a runner, he must have a slender build” and “Hector is older and has a similar fighting style to Big Ajax, it’s normal for him to be more robust” and “Patroclus is supposed to be complementary to Achilles, perhaps that includes appearance” and, consequently, Patroclus wouldn’t be physically very robust because Achilles isn’t. But there is a catch! It has also been suggested that this scene has nothing to do with literal body dimensions. Instead, it’s referring to the roles of each character, something much more metaphorical!

In the metaphorical interpretation, the armor is a metaphor for the narrative role that Achilles plays as the greater warrior. By assuming the armor, Patroclus assumes the narrative role of Achilles, even receiving the same epithets and assuming a personality similar to his during his aristeia (moment when a character shows himself to be aristos, that is, better). He, however, cannot truly take over Achilles' position in its entirety while he is absent, and that is why he dies. This was already premeditated when, when putting on his companion's armor, Patroclus was unable to carry the spear given to Achilles by Peleus, who had received it from Chiron, because it was so heavy that only Achilles was able to lift it. It was also made evident by the apostrophes employed in Patroclus in Book 16 (those moments when the poet spoke directly to the Patroclus whenever he got closer and closer to death). But, as the description of the spear itself indicates, not only is Patroclus not able to assume Achilles' narrative role (he is unable to lift the spear) but no one else is able to do so (only Achilles is able to lift the spear). Hector, by taking Achilles' armor from Patroclus and putting it on, also indirectly becomes a parallel to Achilles with regard to his role on the battlefield. But Zeus having to force the armor to fit Hector was already an indication that he couldn’t be Achilles either, just as him only being able to defeat the “fake Achilles” (Patroclus) with the help of two gods (Zeus, Apollo) and a human (Euphorbus) also predicts this — he didn’t single-handedly overcome the false Achilles who, as Apollo himself made clear when he spoke to Patroclus before pushing him off the wall, wasn’t as good as the real one in terms of power, so how could he overcome the real one? Achilles gets a new armor, picks up his spear that only he lifts, returns to the field and kills Hector, definitively reclaiming his narrative position as the greatest warrior. And, in this scenario, Patroclus fitting into Achilles’ armor and Hector not fitting wouldn’t concern literal body dimensions, but would only indicate that Patroclus, as Achilles's complement (reinforced by the mixed ashes), was more intimate with this narrative role than Hector, who had to be forced into it by Zeus. And ironically, Zeus is the one who allows Patroclus' moment of glory and then indirectly kills him and is the one who makes Hector part of the plan to kill Patroclus (also being the one who makes him fit on the armor), but is the one who premeditates that Hector will have to die for killing Patroclus. Being the one represented in The Iliad with the scales and with the function of respecting Fate, Zeus is the mediator of this exchange of narrative roles symbolized by the armor.

So I suppose it's up to the reader which interpretation they like best. Is it literal? That is, Patroclus and Achilles are similar in size, but Hector is taller than them? Is it symbolic? That is, the armor merely symbolizes Achilles' narrative role? Or both?

Also in Book 16 we have “[...] Μενοιτιάδεω Πατροκλῆος λάσιον κῆρ” (16.554). The first two terms are relatively identifiable even for those who don't know Greek just by the context, in this case it's just Menotiades (son of Menoetius) and the name Patroclus. As for the other two, “λάσιον” can be “hair, rough, shaggy, bushy, overgrown” and “κῆρ” is “heart”. Some translations end up opting for something that, in English, the equivalent would be “hairy chest” (I don’t know if there is an English translation that uses this type of choice, I’m thinking of a non-English translations when I say “hairy chest”. I've seen this most often in Latin languages), which would perhaps invoke in the reader the idea that Patroclus has a hairy chest. Although I have seen this choice in other editions, I’ll only use Frederico Lourenço as an example. Well, this idea would also apply to Achilles and Hephaestus because they’re given the same descriptive (“peito hirsuto”, meaning “hairy chest”). Pilemenes receives a similar description, but with a more literal translation that would be something like “hairy heart” (“coração hirsuto”). Although Frederico Lourenço used something like “hairy chest”, he doesn’t seem to have had literal intentions with this choice of translation since with Pilemenes he opted for “hairy heart” and, as we know, this isn’t exactly a very literal image. I got the impression that he wanted to convey something emotional, which, checking known English translations, seems to have been the understanding of other translators as well — for example, Fagles opted for “savage spirit” and Alexander opted for “rugged-hearted.”

Regarding this Homeric formula:

And whereas λάσιος normally means ‘hairy, densely grown’, the Homeric formula λάσιον κῆρ can be understood as denoting a clever mind. Nussbaum (1976: 69) already drew attention to the following verses: δαυλοὶ γὰρ πραπίδων δάσκιοί τε τείνουσιν πόροι (…) A. Supp. 93–94 For dense and heavily shadowed the ways of his mind stretch out

Remaining Issues Concerning *r̥ by Lucien Van Beek, pg 382.

Sciarraba also says: “Anche il nesso λάσιον κῆρ (Il. XVI, 554 ed Od. II, 851, lett. “cuore, petto villoso”) designa metaforicamente il cuore vigoroso, coraggioso” (Uso e accezione degli psiconimi nella poesia elegiaca latina di età augustea: fra tradizione e innovazione, pg 37, note 183). That is, this structure aims to designate someone vigorous, courageous in a metaphorical way. Note that the Italian “petto” means “chest”, similar with the Portuguese “peito”.

Conclusion: it’s a metaphorical description. Not only does the term “κῆρ“ refer more to “heart” than to “chest”, but the intention is to accentuate a personality trait and not a physical characteristic of the character. Thus, The Iliad didn’t simply find it relevant to comment that the characters’ chests are hairy, but rather found it relevant to emphasize their prowess of mind and spirit. Thus, it isn’t an indication of Patroclus’ appearance.

In Book 23, the ghost of Patroclus appears to Achilles with the intention of asking Achilles to give him funeral honors, since his ghost is trapped outside Hades because his body remains unburied. He also takes the opportunity to ask for something more specific: that, when Achilles dies, his ashes be mixed with Achilles'. The ghost, however, disappears when Achilles tries to embrace him. At this moment, Patroclus is described like this:

And when sleep took hold of him, melting the cares of his heart, sweet, enveloping sleep—for his shining limbs were exhausted from hounding Hector to windswept Ilion— there came to him the shade of poor Patroclus, like to him in every way, his great stature, his fine eyes, his voice, even the clothes such as his body wore. And this stood above Achilles’ head and spoke a word to him: [...]

23.62-68. Translation by Caroline Alexander.

I looked for a Greek version and apparently the part “like to him in every way, his great stature, his fine eyes/his voice, even the clothes such as his body wore“ in Greek would be “πάντ' αὐτῷ μέγεθός τε καὶ ὄμματα κάλ' ἐϊκυῖα/καὶ φωνήν, καὶ τοῖα περὶ χροὶ̈ εἵματα ἕστο” (66-67).

According to the Cambridge Greek Lexicon, “μέγεθος” can translate to things like “size”, “magnitude”, “tallness”, “stature”, “build” “height” and other similar things when it comes to body dimensions. The dictionary uses Homer as an example in meaning 3, which is:

3 bodily size (esp. in terms of height); stature, build, tallness (of persons, deities, animals, mythol. beings) Hom. Hes. Tyrt. A. Hdt. Pl.

So it seems that Patroclus's physique had some notable enough dimension that this is something that is used to indicate how similar his shade is to his real self. From what I understand, it seems to refer more specifically to height in this particular context, which would imply that Patroclus is ´possibly tall. But of course, other possible meanings allude not necessarily to height, but to size (i.e. robustness). If you consider the way in which it is reinforced that Patroclus's shade is very similar to his living self, it’s safe to assume that his physical measurements are also the same and therefore this isn’t a glorified afterlife vision, but a faithfully sized image of Patroclus while alive, and that this could be a Homeric nod to the way heroic cult images were seen. That is, the evocation of a hero in cult would show him as he was in life:

[...] In Homer they are all apparently life-size. When the psychē of Patroclus appears to Achilles, “in every way, in stature and his beautiful eyes and in voice he is like himself, πάντʼ αὐτῷ μέγεθός τε καὶ ὄμματα κάλʼ ἐϊκυῖα / καὶ φωνήν (Iliad 23.66-7; 102). Like an eidōlon in Homeric usage, a cult hero occupies an interstitial space. From the vantage point of the living, both can move between realms, and importantly, retain agency in both worlds. [...]

Invoking Achilles: Black-figure Iconography and Hero Cult by Stan Burgess.

The part that describes Patroclus’ eyes is “ὄμματα κάλʼ”. The Cambridge Greek Lexicon informs me that “ὄμματα” can actually be translated as “eye” or even as “look”, but unfortunately I haven’t found an English dictionary that tells me about “κάλ” specifically. However, I have seen that Deyvis Deniz Machin translated it as “hermoso” into Spanish in a magazine and that a thesis by Gaia Di Giacomo translated it as “belle” into Italian. So I’m going to assume that it is indeed being said that Patroclus has beautiful eyes.

His voice and clothes are also mentioned. The clothes aren’t relevant now, but the voice would be interesting. However, there are no details about it, the only thing we know is that it is the same voice as when he was alive. He could have a squeaky voice and I wouldn't know!

There is also a detail in this scene, however:

TEXTO ORIGINAL 

[...] Ahora bien, lo que me gustaría resaltar acá no es tanto el hecho de que la psychế de Patroclo venga descrita como εἴδωλον, esto es, sombra, espectro, imagen u holograma, tampoco el hecho de que ésta venga a confirmar que, en  tanto individuo, Patroclo ha abandonado definitivamente la vida, ni siquiera que, en tanto sombra o espectro, a lo sumo él sea una experiencia de vida exclusivamente subjetiva venida en sueños a Aquiles, es decir, el sueño de Aquiles es lo que otorgaría realidad, para no decir existencia, a Patroclo. Indiscutiblemente, todas estas conexiones son muy relevantes; no obstante, deseo llamar la atención sobre otro elemento que, aunque conexo con éstos, es aún más sutil y complejo al tiempo que enriquecedor para poder comprender la relación entre corporeidad, facultades e identidad personal; dicho en términos muchos más generales, entre anatomía y psicología o, dicho algo más prosaicamente, entre carne, cuerpo e identidad, puesto que ello fue constituyendo no sólo el punto de partida, sino al mismo tiempo la piedra de toque de cualquier tentativa de abordaje en torno al alma. La respuesta de Aquiles a su compañero adquiere en este sentido especial significación, toda vez que recalca que en el reino de Hades el alma desencarnada no goza de vitalidad ni facultades.

Congresso Internacional de Filosofia Grega:  El Alma o de la Posibilidad de Palpar-se con el Mundo, by Deyvis Deniz Machín, pg 260. 

IMPROVISED TRANSLATION

[...] Now, what I would like to emphasize here isn’t so much the fact that Patroclus’ psychế is described as εἴδωλον, that is, shade, spectre, image or hologram, nor the fact that this confirms that, as an individual, Patroclus has definitively abandoned life, nor even that, as a shade or spectre, he is at most an exclusively subjective life experience that comes to Achilles in a dream, that is, Achilles’ dream is what would grant reality, if not existence, to Patroclus. Undoubtedly, all these connections are very relevant; nevertheless, I wish to draw attention to another element that, although connected to these, is even more subtle and complex while enriching to understand the relationship between corporeality, faculties and personal identity: In much more general terms, between anatomy and psychology or, more prosaically, between flesh, body and identity, since this was not only the starting point, but also the touchstone of any attempt to approach the soul. Achilles' response to his companion takes on special significance in this sense, since it emphasizes that in the realm of Hades the disembodied soul has neither vitality nor faculties.

Congresso Internacional de Filosofia Grega:  El Alma o de la Posibilidad de Palpar-se con el Mundo, by Deyvis Deniz Machín, pg 260. 

As noted, there is a subjective aspect to this scene to some extent. If you prefer to give more consideration to the interpretation that Patroclus is a subjective view of Achilles rather than the interpretation that Patroclus is a nod to hero worship, then you might consider that he may not be being described objectively. That is, perhaps he is of remarkable stature and has beautiful eyes because that is the image Achilles has of him in the dream. Achilles, who has been mourning him for days, would see any opportunity to have Patroclus back alive as something idealized. And it would be for this reason, and not because it’s a nod to perceptions of hero worship, that the narrative emphasizes that he looks as he did when he was alive: because Achilles, in his mind, wishes to have him alive. In fact, Patroclus looks so alive that Achilles even tries to embrace him, seeming to forget that he is dead and only remembering when, when he tries, Patroclus's form fades away.

So again, it's up to the reader's interpretation, I guess. Is the image really 100% faithful to Patroclus or is it altered by Achilles' subjectivity?

In this dialogue (Book 23, I mean), Patroclus also says that he and Achilles grew up together. The idea of ​​"growing up together" would be quite meaningless if we were talking about, for example, characters with many years of age difference because at that point one of them would already be grown up. Therefore, I believe this implies that, although Patroclus is older (something explicitly stated in Book 11), the difference isn’t that significant. Achilles doesn’t appear to be the youngest (for example, Antilochus appears to be younger), but he is one of the younger men in the army. Patroclus being only slightly older could put him either in the younger age range or in a more typical age range (not too old, not too young to be on a military campaign).

Myrmidons, Aeschylus

Aeschylus wrote a lost trilogy focused on Achilles, with the first play apparently dealing with the mourning of the dead Patroclus. It's called Myrmidons, and among the fragments we have this:

No reverence hadst thou for the unsullied holiness of thy limbs, oh thou most ungrateful for my many kisses!

Aeschylus, frag 64. Translation by Herbert Weir Smyth.

And the Greek text:

σέβας δέ μηρῶν ἀγνόν ουκ ἐπηδέσω, ὢ δυσχάριστε τῷν πυκνῶν φιλημάτων μηρῶν τε τῶν σῶν εὐσέβησ᾽ ὁμιλίαν κλαίων

From what I understand, the term that describes the part of Patroclus' body that Achilles is referring to is "μηρῶν", which, from what I've seen, refers to the thighs. So, Achilles is basically talking about kissing and Patroclus' thighs. I've seen people take this as a sign that Patroclus has killer thighs, and I'm honestly not going to deny the possibility of this headcanon. But personally, I think Achilles is saying this to emphasize the aspect of their relationship and not Patroclus' appearance. And considering how other authors have used this line as a sign of how Aeschylus viewed their relationship, it seems that this was the meaning:

Plato's well-known excerpt about the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles is a kind of response to Aeschylus' interpretation, as Plato disagreed on who was "eromenos" and who was "erates" (Symposium, 179-180). Plutarch also mentions this Aeschylus' fragment in Amatorius in a non-platonic context:

Add to this of Solon that other of Aeschylus: "Ungrateful, for the kisses of my lips, Not to revere the glory of my lips."

Amatorius, 5. Translation by "several hands". See in Greek here.

Athenaeus of Naucratis also appears to reference this play by Aeschylus in a romantic sense.

And, in fact, there was such emulation about composing poems of this sort, and so far was any one from thinking lightly of the amatory poets, that Aeschylus, who was a very great poet, and Sophocles, too, introduced the subject of the loves of men on the stage in their tragedies: the one describing the love of Achilles for Patroclus [...]

The Deipnosophists, 13.75. Translation by Henry G. Bohn.

This excerpt from Aeschylus being interpreted as sexual and/or romantic also seems to have remained in the Roman Greece, since the text "Amores", attributed to Lucian of Samosata, refers the Aeschylus excerpt in a sexual context in 54.

[...] Do not be surprised: Patroclus in fact, was not loved by Achilles just because he was seated before him, waiting for Achilles to finish his song…but it was lust that mediated their friendship. For Achilles, moaning upon the death of Patroklos, allows his unrestrained passion to burst out with the power of truth when he says: "The holy commerce of your thighs my tears do mourn". I also believe that those whom the Greeks call ‘comastes' are none other than professional lovers. Some might call this a shameful thing to say, but at least it is the truth, by the Aphrodite of Cnidus!

Amores, 54. Translation by Andrew Kallimachos. In Greek here. Note: This excerpt was used only to show the use of Aeschylus. The context of the text as a whole is best seen by reading.

That is, I do not consider this to be a physical-focused portrait of Patroclus, but an emotional portrait-focused of Patroclus and Achilles.

Fabulae, Hyginus or Pseudo-Hyginus

Fabulae is a Latin collection of myths, apparently using a lot of Greek authors as references given the number of times it references them (Euripides, Aeschylus, Apollonius, etc). The authorship is a matter of debate, with the Roman Hyginus generally being the most suggested name. However, as there are arguments that it doesn't make sense to be him for X reasons, Pseudo-Hyginus is also a nomenclature used to indicate that it isn’t really Hyginus as previously thought. There is no shockingly detailed description here, you just need to know that the author of this mythographic collection thought it would be relevant to make a list of the most beautiful ones. And guess who is on it?

THOSE WHO WERE MOST HANDSOME: Iasion, son of Ilithius, whom Ceres is said to have loved [credible, since vouched for by old histories]. Cinyras, son of Paphos, king of the Assyrians. Anchises, son of Assaracus, whom Venus loved. Alexander Paris, son of Priam and Hecuba, whom Helen followed. Nireus, son of Charops. Cephalus, son of Pandion, whom Aurora loved. Tithonus, husband of Aurora. Parthenopaeus, son of Meleager and Atalanta. Achilles, son of Peleus and Thetis. Patroclus, son of Menoetius. Idomeneus, who loved Helen. Theseus, son of Aegeus and Aethra, whom Ariadne loved.

Translation by Mary Grant.

Anyway, the only information that Fabulae gives us about Patroclus’ physical appearance is that he was hot enough to be on the “hottest” list. And here we have the issue of possible reader interpretations. “Handsome”, “pretty” and “beautiful” in English often evoke different beauties in the reader and only when you type these terms into Google do you realize this because the resulting images are different. In particular, “handsome” is in the common imagination associated with a more masculine and sober beauty. For example, this is how Dictionary Colins describes “handsome”:

1. adjectivo B1 A handsome man has an attractive face with regular features. ...a tall, dark, handsome sheep farmer.  pretty Synonims good-looking, attractive, gorgeous [informal], fine   Mais sinônimos de handsome 2. adjectivo B2 A handsome woman has an attractive appearance with features that are large and regular rather than small and delicate. ...an extremely handsome woman with a beautiful voice.

So perhaps a reader of Mary Grant (the translator) might think that here Fabulae is necessarily indicating that Patroclus is handsome in the sense of a guy with a defined jaw, sharp eyes, tall, etc, but not necessarily. Note, for example, that Paris is one of the men listed and he was definitely not an example of traditional masculinity. Was good-looking? Yes, he was, that is a constant characteristic of him. But he wasn’t considered masculine by the other characters, nor by the authors of the time. The Latin text I found online indicates that the part “those who were most handsome” in Latin is “qui formosissimi fuerunt”, and an online Latin Lexicon I found says:

fōrmōsus (fōrmōnsus) adj. with comp. and sup. forma, finely formed, beautiful, handsome: pyramidis (forma) videtur esse formosior: virgines formosissimae: Vis formosa videri, H.: Formosi pecoris custos formosior ipse, V.: omnium aetatis suae formosissimus, N.: tempus (i. e. ver), O.: oculis, O.: nihil{*}est virtute formosius.

And according to Wiktionary, “formosissimi” is actually masculine, but there are feminine versions of this term, whose meaning is apparently the same and the change is only for grammatical reasons. So I imagine that Fabulae was referring to a broader type of beauty, not necessarily indicating in what way these characters were beautiful.

Heroica, Philostrathus

Heroica, or On Heroes, is a text by Philostratus. There was more than one Philostratus and the authorship of Heroica is debated, the identification being somewhat complicated because the two Philostratus lived in similar times and in fact apparently belonged to the same family and had styles similar enough to be inspired by each other. For the sake of differentiation, one is known as the Elder (or the Athenian) and the other is known as the Younger. Authorial issues aside, Heroica has a very specific context. It was written during the Second Sophistic, a period in which authors often promoted true versions of the mythological account of the Trojan War, especially in opposition to the “Homeric canon” so to speak. Heroica does the same, including often comparing its own account with that given by Homer, thus making clear the intention of “revising” the facts. In the case of Philostrathus, he especially seemed focused on the idea of ​​heroic worship, that is, cults offered in honor of mortals who achieved some notable glory. It’s different from the cult of a deity, to be clear. Heroic cults were mainly regional, which resulted in different perceptions of those characters. In some cases, it was possible for a hero to have a cult that was especially predominant in an area, as is the case with the especially strong and documented cult of Achilles in the Euxines Pontus/Black Sea, although this specific cult has generated much debate as to whether it was truly a heroic cult (as, for example, happens in the cult of Achilles at the site identified as his tomb) or whether it was a divine cult (as there have been archaeological finds that seem to imply the view of Achilles as a deified hero). Indeed, The Iliad has been interpreted by academics as being a pan-Hellenic work that used several regional heroes in a single and big narrative, and there has been much debate about possible hints of hero worship practice within the lines of The Iliad (one example used for this was the funeral of Patroclus, for example, which contained elements that academics have identified as resembling cult practices and, therefore, being a possible indication that Homer was actually using cult heroes before him in a unified pan-Hellenic, narrative). Here, Philostratus seems to have the intention of rescuing cult heroes that were “appropriated” in the Homeric narrative (his opinion, in this case), and one way he uses to do this is to try to invoke credibility through the character Protesilaus by claiming that the information brought in the Heroica was given by Protesilaus, also a cult hero of the Trojan War. [Note: This explanation was HEAVILY based on Gregory Nagy's introduction to the Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken translation, as well as several other texts I researched months ago when I was trying to learn about Achilles Pontarches. There is a post about Achilles Pontarches, so anyone who is curious can check out the texts used there].

In Heroica, the description of Patroclus, based on the supposed words of Protesilaus, is as follows:

My guest, Protesilaos says that Patroklos, although he was not much older than Achilles, was a divine and sensible man, the most suitable companion for Achilles. He said that Patroklos rejoiced whenever Achilles also rejoiced, was distressed in the same manner, was always giving some advice when he sang. Protesilaos says that even his horses carried Patroklos safe and sound, just as they did Achilles. In size and bravery he was between the two Ajaxes. He fell short of the son of Telamon in all things, but he surpassed both the size and bravery of the son of Locris. Patroklos had an olive complexion, black eyes, and sufficiently fine eyebrows, and he commended moderately long hair. His head stood upon his neck as the wrestling schools cultivate. His nose was straight, and he flared his nostrils as eager horses do (translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken)

In Greek, the text is as follows:

τὸν δὲ Πάτροκλον ὁ Πρωτεσίλεως, ὦ ξένε, πρεσβύτερον μὲν τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως οὐ πολὺ γενέσθαι φησί, θεῖον δὲ ἄνδρα καὶ σώφρονα τῷ τε Ἀχιλλεῖ ἐπιτηδειότατον τῶν ἑταίρων, χαίρειν τε γάρ, ὁπότε καὶ ὁ Ἀχιλλεὺς ἔχαιρε, λυπεῖσθαί τε τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον καὶ ξυμβουλεύειν ἀεί τι καὶ ἀκούειν ᾄδοντος, καὶ οἱ ἵπποι δὲ αὐτὸν ἔφερον χαίροντες, ὥσπερ καὶ τὸν Ἀχιλλέα. ἦν δὲ καὶ τὸ μέγεθος καὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν μεταξὺ τοῖν Αἰάντοιν, τοῦ μὲν γὰρ Τελαμωνίου πάντα ἐλείπετο, ἐκράτει δὲ ἄμφω τοῦ Λοκροῦ, καὶ μελίχλωρος ἦν ὁ Πάτροκλος καὶ τὼ ὀφθαλμὼ μέλας καὶ ἱκανῶς εὔοφρυς καὶ μέτρα ἐπαινῶν κόμης, ἡ κεφαλὴ δὲ ἐβεβήκει ἐπ᾽ αὐχένος, οἵου αἱ παλαῖστραι ἀσκοῦσιν, ἡ δὲ ῥὶς ὀρθή τε ἦν καὶ τοὺς μυκτῆρας ἀνευρύνετο, καθάπερ οἱ πρόθυμοι τῶν ἵππων.

I've made it quite clear that I don't know Greek, and so no, I'm not about to attempt a proper translation here. I'm just trying to identify specific words, and after what must have been endless online dictionary searches, I've come up with the following:

Apparently, “although he was not much older than Achilles”bin Greek is perhaps “πρεσβύτερον μὲν τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως οὐ πολὺ γενέσθαι φησί”

Apparently, “In size and bravery he was between the two Ajaxes. He fell short of the son of Telamon in all things, but he surpassed both the size and bravery of the son of Locris” in Greek is perhaps “ἦν δὲ καὶ τὸ μέγεθος καὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν μεταξὺ τοῖν Αἰάντοιν, τοῦ μὲν γὰρ Τελαμωνίου πάντα ἐλείπετο, ἐκράτει δὲ ἄμφω τοῦ Λοκροῦ”

Apparently, “Patroklos had an olive complexion” in Greek is perhaps “μελίχλωρος ἦν ὁ Πάτροκλος”.

Apparently, “black eyes” in Greek perhaps come from this part: “καὶ τὼ ὀφθαλμὼ μέλας”

Apparently, “sufficiently fine eyebrows” in Greek perhaps come from this part: “καὶ ἱκανῶς εὔοφρυς”

Apparently, “he commended moderately long hair” in Greek perhaps come from this part: “καὶ μέτρα ἐπαινῶν κόμης”

Apparently, “His head stood upon his neck as the wrestling schools cultivate” in Greek perhaps come from this part: “ἡ κεφαλὴ δὲ ἐβεβήκει ἐπ᾽αὐχένος, οἵου αἱ παλαῖστραι ἀσκοῦσιν”

Apparently, “His nose was straight, and he flared his nostrils as eager horses do” in Greek is perhap “ἡ δὲ ῥὶς ὀρθή τε ἦν καὶ τοὺς μυκτῆρας ἀνευρύνετο, καθάπερ οἱ πρόθυμοι τῶν ἵππων”.

And honestly, the translation in this edition seems quite faithful! I've seen people complain about how the descriptions in this translation supposedly seem strange, but I got the impression that the translators were just trying to maintain the vibe and rhythm of the original.

First, let's look at age. Where texts usually don't mention age for Patroclus or just let us know that he is older, Philostrathus makes it clear that Patroclus isn’t much older (in Greek “πρεσ” is “older” while “οὐ πολὺ” can be translated as “not much”). So, for example, 10 years of difference would be a disposable idea in Heroica. Considering that Achilles is young (something Heroica also highlights with “Achilles was a young man and Ajax a grown man”), the idea of ​​Patroclus being only slightly older also implies that he is young.

Another characteristic we have is Patroclus' height, although it isn’t an exact description. We know it’s about size that is being referred to because the word translated as "size" is probably “μέγεθος” in the Greek text, and according to the Cambridge Greek Lexicon, the possible meanings for this are: greatness, magnitude, size, height, stature. He is said to be shorter than Ajax Telamonian, but taller than Ajax Locrian. And honestly, that doesn't tell me much. He could be shorter than Ajax Telamonian and be tall, average or short, since this Ajax is very tall. And he could be taller than Ajax Locrian and not necessarily be tall. Anyway, height is inconclusive.

Although “sufficiently fine eyebrows” may seem like a strange description to some people, in Greek we have that in a rather crude and literal translation:

καὶ ἱκανῶς εὔοφρυς [and][sufficient][fine eyebrows]

According to Liddell, ἱκανῶς when describing things (in this case, eyebrows) means “sufficient, adequate.” When referring to size, it can mean “large enough.” According to LSJ, “εὔοφρυς eúophrys” (being ophrys eyebrow) is literally something like “with fine eyebrows.” So even though describing someone as having “fine enough eyebrows” doesn’t seem like a very common compliment, the translators were really just trying to preserve the original sense. This word also appears in the Greek Anthology in a text by Rufinus, a Greek poet from Roman Greece:

αὕτη πρόσθεν ἔην ἐρατόχροος, εἰαρόμασθος, εὔσφυρος, εὐμήκης, εὔοφρυς, εὐπλόκαμος: ἠλλάχθη δὲ χρόνῳ καὶ γήραϊ καὶ πολιαῖσι, καὶ νῦν τῶν προτέρων οὐδ᾽ ὄναρ οὐδὲν ἔχει, ἀλλοτρίας δὲ τρίχας, καὶ ῥυσῶδες τὸ πρόσωπον, οἷον γηράσας οὐδὲ πίθηκος ἔχει.

Greek Anthology, 5.76. 

The translation in the book by Marguerite Johnson and Terry Ryan says:

Once upon a time her appearance aroused desire: breasts springing with  youth,  strong and healthy, tall, with fine eyebrows, hair like a goddess. The passage of time and old age and grey hair have brought change,  and now she is not even a shadow of what she once was, but decks herself in wigs and her face is rutted with wrinkles,  and her features are like those of an aged ape. 

Sexuality in Greek and Roman Society and Literature, pg 172.

One interesting thing I discovered is that the Byzantine chronicler Constantine Manasses described Helen, the most beautiful of women, also with “εὔοφρυς”. I discovered this randomly because, while searching for the word, one of the results was the Gutenberg Project. I didn’t read the whole text because I honestly only clicked on it for that purpose, but one part says:

Even Constantinus Manasses sought to adorn his bald chronicle with a picture of Helen. I must thank him for the attempt, for I really should not know where else to turn for so striking an example of the folly of venturing on what Homer’s wisdom forbore to undertake. When I read in him:

ἦν ἡ γυνὴ περικαλλὴς, εὔοφρυς, εὐχρουστάτη, εὐπάρειος, εὐπρόσωπος, βοῶπις, χιονόχρους, ἑλικοβλέφαρος, ἁβρὰ, χαρίτων γέμον ἄλσος, λευκοβραχίων, τρυφερὰ, κάλλος ἄντικρυς ἔμπνουν, τὸ πρόσωπον κατάλευκον, ἡ παρειὰ ῥοδόχρους, τὸ πρόσωπον ἐπίχαρι, τὸ βλέφαρον ὡραῖον, κάλλος ἀνεπιτήδευτον, ἀβάπτιστον, αὐτόχρουν, ἔβαπτε τὴν λευκότητα ῥοδόχροια πυρσίνη, 128ὡς εἴ τις τὸν ἐλέφαντα βάψει λαμπρᾷ πορφύρᾳ. δειρὴ μακρά, κατάλευκος, ὅθεν ἐμυθουργήθη κυκνογενῆ τὴν εὔοπτον Ἑλένην χρηματίζειν

And a note translates: 

“She was a woman right beautiful, with fine eyebrows, of clearest complexion, beautiful cheeks; comely, with large, full eyes, with snow-white skin, quick-glancing, graceful; a grove filled with graces, fair-armed, voluptuous, breathing beauty undisguised. The complexion fair, the cheek rosy, the countenance pleasing, the eye blooming; a beauty unartificial, untinted, of its natural color, adding brightness to the brightest cherry, as if one should dye ivory with resplendent purple. Her neck long, of dazzling whiteness; whence she was called the swan-born, beautiful Helen.”

So, while I honestly don’t understand why this is a compliment, it’s at least intriguing that I have found this same compliment directed at women in contexts where this characteristic is meant to denote great beauty. In the case of Rufinus, he describes a woman who in her youth was immensely beautiful, but whose aging has made her unattractive (this second part has a jocular tone in the text). In the first part, where Rufinus lists the physical characteristics that made her so desirable when she was young, it says “fine eyebrows.” And, according to the book already cited (the one I got the translation from), this passage is specifically intended to describe a heitara. In ancient times, a heitara had to be not only pleasant and educated company, but also immensely beautiful. In the chronicle of Constantine Manasses, the word is present in the description of Helen, famously known as the most beautiful woman, and therefore the word is here to emphasize how beautiful she is. Finally, in a book of Greek folklore called, there is a story called “The Wicked Mother-in-Law”, said to have been know by M.E Legrand, and the protagonist Konstantine is described as having “braid-fine eyebrows” (Greek folk poetry, annotated translations from the whole cycle of Romaic folk-verse and folk-prose, pg 185). However, other than Google recommending this book to me when I searched for “fine eyebrows” in association with Greek texts, I know nothing more about this apparently folkloric story. I don’t even know if “braid-fine eyebrows” is intended to be “εὔοφρυς”. In any case, what I understand from this research is that Protesilaus thinks Patroclus is hot.

The same principle of “sufficient”, “moderate”, “enough” applies to the hair. In English it’s taken as “he commended moderately long hair” and in Greek:

καὶ μέτρα ἐπαινῶν κόμης [and][length][to praise/praising][hair of the head]

When put in this extremely literal and simplistic form, ἐπαινῶν seems kind of random, but considering how dictionaries comment on the association of this word with “what is praised, recommended, advised” (see here), I imagine that in a more fluid translation it would really be something like “hair of commendable length”, which the translators chose to indicate through “moderately”. After all, that moderate is associated with recommended/advised and, therefore, commendable makes sense. In Philostrathus' time, short male hair was already quite common, but, considering that here he is invoking Greek mythological heroes from earlier periods and whose popular images were particularly influenced by Homer (who describes them with long hair), I’m also not surprised by the idea of ​​Patroclus' hair length being something to be mentioned.

And here is the word that got me started all this research. Yes, it started because of a single word. Basically, I was reading Heroica and I noticed that eyes are often described as “dark” or “black”, which is also the case for Patroclus. I was curious to know how this could be done because the last time I tried to understand a character’s eyes in Heroica (it was Achilles’ eyes. In that case, I was asked and I tried to give some sort of answer) the research was intense because apparently things aren’t always simple. Well, for Patroclus the word was “μέλας” mélas (in case anyone finds “mélas” familiar, it’s because this word is in the etymology of melanin) and… well, apparently, it can actually be both “dark” and “black” (see here). There are, of course, symbolic and metaphorical contexts related to this color, but in this specific case it simply seems that Patroclus has dark eyes and that's it (for example, it has been used to designate water. Not because water is literally black, but because it’s dark). In Greece, as in most countries, dark eyes are more common, so Patrolcus having dark eyes isn’t surprising.

Patroclus is described as having an “olive” complexion, a characteristic that in Greek is indicated by the word “μελίχλωρος”. I found some texts about this. For example, Saito Yukiko says “There is the term of μελίχλωρος (‘yellow or pale as honey’) in ancient Greek, which can be found as a rather dark shade; Kober 1932, 67” (The Flowing Colour of Religious Μέλι and its Transformed Metaphorical Function in Homer, pg 18, note 23). So she seems to interpret that, although the literal meaning refers to yellow or honey, in terms of color it seems to indicate a relatively dark tone, which would indicate that Patroclus isn’t pale and also not literally yellow. It’s more of that brownish honey tone, you know?

Monica Durán Mañas argues that in Theocritus’ text, which also uses “μελίχλωρος” to describe skin, this indicates that the girl has “piel tostada,” that is, she is tanned. In the argument offered, the young girl, because she dedicated herself to the chores of the fields (Theocritus was a poet of pastoral poetry), was frequently exposed to the sun and, therefore, had tanned skin. Because of ancient beauty standards, this would normally be considered a negative characteristic in a woman, but Theocritus subverts this idea by apparently using this descriptive in a positive way (Las mujeres en los Idilios de Teócrito, pg 125-126). Thus, the term would indicate the tone that the skin acquires with tanning. And when we think of honey, it isn’t really a literal yellow, it has a brighter tone, between orange, yellow and brown. In this sense, the description of the girl's skin as similar to honey actually fits with the vision of a young woman who is tanned. Thus, Philostrathus could also be pointing out that Patroclus, probably because he is a warrior, is tanned.

Finally, there is this explanation:

Gow argues, in view of the way μβλίχλωρος is used elsewhere, that it may be a synonym for ώχρός, and that Theocritus is here not flattering the girl but describing her as opposite to what she was. Although she was dark, to her lover she seemed fair, as suited an attractive girl. He cites in support of μελχλωρος ("‘pale”) Plato and the fact that μελιχρούς (a synonym for μελίχλωρος) is the regular word for “fair-skinned” in Egyptian legal documents. But Gow also introduces evidence that μελίχλωρος meant “dark” to some writers. Meleager (A.P. 12.1 65ff) contrasts two boys as λευκανθής and μελίχροος; in the fourth line of the poem, they are λευκός and μελας, corresponding apparently to the two parts (μελας and αρωγός) of his name. Lucretius (4.1160), in speaking of men ascribing to women excellencies they do not possess, gives as the flattering equivalent of nigra, melichrus. It is possible, according to Gow, that for Theocritus, too, μελίχλωρος suggested “dark,” and he was using it as a synonym for αλίόκαυστος. Gow, then, leaves the question open. Professor L. Woodbury of the University of Toronto has pointed out to the author that the two extremes of pale and dark need not present a contradiction. From Plato we know that μελίχλωρος is not the lightest complexion (represented by λευκός). Presumably it lies somewhere between λευκός and μελας, and .as a medium shade was capable of being applied to either extreme. Theocritus used it hypocoristically for “sun-burned”; for him it was a complimentary expression, lightening the girl’s colouring somewhat. So, with the other passages, if we take μελίχλωρος as a medium complexion, it can be used as a hypocorism for someone who is either too pale or too dark. For these writers (with the possible exception of pseudo-Aristotle) μελίχλωρος was an attractive expression particularly suited to the complexion, whereas χλωρός alone indicated a sickly pallor (see p. 64 f.). Although for the early poets, μέλι χλωρόν ought to have meant “liquid honey,” no trace of this meaning remains in the adjective. Perhaps the fact which we remarked earlier, that μελί χλωρόν disappeared from poetic vocabulary explains why the transition to the adjective could be made with a loss of the original force. One would suppose that the epic tag applied mistakenly to the hue of honey led to the coining of μελίχλωρος.

Colour terms in Greek poetry by Eleanor Irwin, pg 58-60.

Irwin concluded that this description probably refers to something between light and dark, that is, to the intermediate tone. This could very well be a tan, as is the case with Durán, and it could very well refer to the hue of honey in a tone not literally yellow but rather darker, as Saito says. The description “olive” also fits. Patroclus being described in this way is relatively predictable because, as noted by the visual representations of Philostratus' time, the male ideal was a tanned skin, opposed to the aesthetic idealization of the pale woman.

Dares the Prygian

Dares the Prygian is a Latin text. Often compared to the Dictys Cretensis, it has resulted in debates in academic circles as to whether the work is Greek or Roman in origin. This is because both Dares the Prygian and Dictys Cretensis claim to be Latin translations of a Greek text. In one case, the translator is identified as Cornelius Nepos, and in the other case, the translator is identified as Lucius Septimus. The problem is that both texts purport to be a “true account of the Trojan War,” so claiming that the text is in Latin because it is a translation from Greek could very well be just a way of increasing credibility. After all, if this is the true account of the Trojan War, it probably had to have been written in Greek first. For a time, nothing was found about the supposed Greek original, leading both texts to be interpreted as part of the Latin literary tradition, without a Greek original. However, papyri have been discovered that contain fragments of a Greek text that match the Latin version of Dictys Cretensis. Not only that, but these papyri predate the publication of the Latin text. In other words, Dictys Cretensis did indeed have a Greek original. This makes the possibility that Dares the Prygian had a Greek original seem not so far-fetched, but apparently no credible evidence of this has yet been found. Therefore, while Dictys Cretensis is now considered to have been part of Greek literature and later entered Latin literature, Dares the Prygian is still primarily seen as Latin literature. [Note: text supported by explanations I have read from various theses, books and translations that discussed Dares].

Well, Dares is the narrator of the story, and so the descriptions of the characters are from his point of view. Regarding Patroclus, he says the following:

Patroclus was handsome and powerfully built. His yes were gray. He was modest, dependable, wise, a man richly endowed. (translation by R.M. Frazer)

In a Latin version, this is the description:

Patroclum pulchro corpore, oculis vividis et magnis, verecundum, rectum, prudentem, dapsilem.

Note: from “verecundum” onwards I’ll ignore it, as these are personality traits and not physical appearance aspects.

“Corpore” refers to the body, with “pulchro” being the word that characterizes it. According to A Latin Dictionary, pulchro can mean beautiful, beauteous, fair, handsome. In a literal interlinear translation of The Aeneid (Books I-VI) by Frederick Holland, I found the word “pulchro” as “fair” and the description “in pulchro corpore” as “in a handsome frame”. Virgil also wrote “virtus veniens gratior in pulchro corpore”, which Levi Hart and V.R. Osborn translate as “virtue coming more grateful in a beautiful body”. Another example of “pulchro” is seen in Latin literature with the use of “pulchro pectore” when referring to a beautiful chest (Virgil does this in The Aeneid, Avianus does this in Fables. Virgil describes a woman, Avianus describes a leopard). Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that apparently the literal form of the literal is that Patroclus is described as having a "beautiful body", a rather simple description compared to "Patroclus was handsome and powerfully built". The handsome is clearly coming from "pulchro" and the context here is clearly Patroclus' "corpore" (Frazer doesn't have to literally state that he's describing the body for you to notice this. By saying "Patroclus was", it's already noticeable).

The part “oculis vividis et magnis” designates Patroclus’ eyes, as indicated by “oculis”. “Vivids” has the meaning of alive, animated, lively, vigorous, while “et” is “and” and “magnus” has the meaning of “great”, “big”, “large”. In general, magnus denotes great size, value or power. In other words, quite literally, Patroclus’ eyes are “vivid and large”. Since Frazer explicitly says that they’re grey, I tried to find out if “vivids” was somehow used poetically to refer to grey or something like that, but I found nothing. Considering that Frazer apparently left “magnus” out of the translation, it’s possible that “grey” itself was a free addition by him. After all, Frazer himself makes it clear at the beginning of the book that he intends to make a freer translation. It isn’t as if he hides this from the reader. He wanted to maintain the spirit and be faithful in the most relevant details (for example, the themes and narratives), but he tried to “restructure” the writing present in the original Latin because he considered it too simplistic:

Dictys’ Latin prose is simple and fairly good. Dares’, on the other hand, is very bad; it is, as Gilbert Highet says, “of extreme simplicity, verging on stupidity.” My English translations are simple, too, but not so simple, I hope, as to verge on stupidity. I have tried to translate accurately, but not word for word, or even sentence for sentence. Sentences in my translation do not always correspond exactly, in structure or extent, with those of the Latin text. Sometimes I have used a proper name instead of a pronoun, or even instead of an alternate proper name, such as “Neoptolemus” for “Pyrrhus.” Thus I have striven for clarity and readability as well as for accuracy. (pg 15)

BUT he also made it clear that he used Ferdinand Meister's 1873 Latin edition as a reference for his translation, so I figured it was probably Meister's idea and Frazer replicated it, either accidentally or because he thought it was a more interesting idea (since he was doing a more live translation anyway). Here's Meister's excerpt:

Patroclum pulchro corpore oculis caesiis viribus magnis verecudum certum prudentem depsilem.

Here, the part referring to eye color is “oculis caesiis”. Caesiis, according to A Latin Dictionary:

caesĭus , a, um, adj. cf. caeruleus, I.bluish gray; very rare, and only of the eyes, cat-eyed: virgo caesia, Ter Heaut. 5, 5, 18; v. Don. in h. l. and Gell. 2, 26, 19: “isto modo dicere licebit caesios oculos Minervae, caeruleos esse Neptuni,” Cic. N. D. 1, 30, 83 (cf. in Gr. γλαυκῶπις ᾿Αθήνη): caesia, Παλλάδιον, has she gray eyes? she is the impersonation of Pallas, * Lucr. 4, 1161: “caesius, Ter Hec. 3, 4, 26 (glaucis oculis, quasi felis oculos habens et glaucos, Don.): hunc, judices, dico, rubrum, brevem, incurvum, canum, subcrispum, caesium,” Auct. Her. 4, 49, 63: “leo,” Cat. 45, 7: “sub septentrionibus nutriuntur gentes immanibus corporibus oculis caesiis,” Vitr. 6, 1.—Sup. caesissimus, acc. to Varr. L. L. 8, § 76 Müll.—Comp. not in use.

Considering that one of the examples the dictionary uses is “oculis ceasiis,” it does indeed seem to be the same word. In this case, Frazer’s “gray” would come from the edition he is using as a basis, Meister. In other words, it wasn’t a more free choice on Frazer's part.

A more literal translation of the version I used at the beginning (Patroclum pulchro corpore, oculis vividis et magnis, verecundum, rectum, prudentem, dapsilem) would be:

Beautiful of body, with big bright eyes, modest, upright and generous (translation by Maud Mclerney) Patroclus was a handsome man with big, lively eyes. He was modest, respectable, wise, and generous (translation by Jonathan Cornil)

And perhaps there is the question of why the Latin texts shown here are different. Well, the thing is that in basically every book, article and website I read, it’s clearly stated that Dares has MANY manuscripts precisely because it was very popular in Medieval time. I have my serious doubts that all the manuscripts were identical, so it’s a possibility that the manuscripts used as the basis for these Latin versions shown here are different.

A detail that intrigued me is that Cornil also uses Meisen's version as a reference, including it in his text as the original Latin, and explains that he didn’t use the online version at Latin Library. And so I was intrigued by this too. Where is the full text of this site from? This version that is apparently the same as Mclerney's? Well, I looked for other translations of Dares and found a bilingual Latin-French edition by Nicolas Louis Archaintre and Antoine Calloit from 1813. In it, the Latin description for Patroclus is “Patroclum pulchro corpore, oculis vividis et magnis, verecundum, rectum, prudentem, dapsilem”... familiar, right? The French translation, if anyone is interested, is “Patrocle était un bel homme; il avait de grands yeux verts, de la modestie, de la droiture, de la prudence et la génereux” (pg 192-193). Interestingly, although the rest of the translation is quite similar to the others, the description of the eyes is “grands yeux verts”. That is: large (grands) green (verts) eyes (yeux). Yes, green. There is no word that literally means green, so I can only assume that the translators interpreted “vividis” (vivid) as some kind of vivid color (rather than being vivid in the sense of the character’s emotion, for example) and thought green fit that idea. But that’s just my guess. I also found a French edition from 1592 in which the part about Patroclus’ eyes is also described as “les yeux verds”, so this translation choice on Anchaintre and Calloit’s part isn’t new in the French editions. And then I made another discovery! There is an 1835 edition by Andres Dederich whose Latin description for Patroclus is “Patroclum pulcro corpore, oculis vividis et magnis, verecundum, rectum, prudentem, dapsilem”. “Pulchro” here is “pulcro”, but otherwise unchanged in comparison with Latin Library online. An edition of the Delphin Series in 1680 gave the Latin text as “Patroclum corpore, oculis viridibus & magnis, verecundum, rectum, prudentem, depfilem”, notably without the presence of the “caesiis” although the description of the eyes is somewhat different (viridibus instead of vivids). [Here is the edition by 1592, 1680, 1813, 1835]

So, at least here I know that in 1680 there was an edition without “caesiis” and that in 1813 there was already an edition similar to the one I showed initially, although I don’t know which manuscript was used in them. I found another file of the Meisen version, and then I was able to notice something I hadn’t noticed before. At the bottom of the page that shows the description (pg 16), there are words from the text + letters. One of the combinations is “caesiis om. LG”. Later, I discovered on the previous page of the translation there is a “Singlorum tabula”, that is, a list of acronyms. The acronym L is identified as “codex Leidensis s. X” and the acronym G is identified as “codex Sangallensis s. X”. So, apparently somehow the descriptive “caesiis” supposedly comes from these manuscripts (I say supposedly because I may have misunderstood since the edition is in Latin and it’s not like I found these manuscripts to try to check). Anyway, there is no way for me to check these manuscripts, but I’ll trust Meisen and I’ll also trust that the other people who didn’t have “caesiis” in their texts didn’t deliberately leave it out, but simply used a manuscript that didn’t have it. Therefore, I’ll assume that the existence of “caesiis” depends on the manuscript.

What we conclude here is: Patroclus is handsome and his eyes are a flexible subject. But if we consider the manuscripts that possibly have “caesiis”, then the possible colors are bluish-gray or simply gray. If we consider the descriptions without color, then they’re usually big (magnus/magnis) and vivid (vivids/vividis) or strong (viribus/viridibus).

Description of Greece, Pausanias

At one point, Pausanias describes a painting. It’s said that, with the exception of Agamemnon, all the characters are beardless. This includes Patroclus:

After the daughters of Pandareos is Antilochus, with one foot upon a rock and his face and head resting upon both hands, while after Antilochus is Agamemnon, leaning on a scepter beneath his left armpit, and holding up a staff in his hands. Protesilaus is seated with his gaze fixed on Achilles. Such is the posture of Protesilaus, and beyond Achilles is Patroclus standing. With the exception of Agamemnon these figures have no beard.

Description of Greece, 10.30.3. Translation by W.H.S. Jones.

Beards, as far as Ancient Greece is concerned, seem to have been a symbol of male maturity. For example, in the Odyssey, the beard seems to be a constant indicator of this (excerpts from Richmond Lattimore's translation below):

“[...] Hermes, of the golden staff, met me on my way, in the likeness of a young man with beard new grown, which is the most graceful time of young manhood [...]” 

10.277-279. 

“[...] Surely they would have carried it out if they had come to maturity, but the son of Zeus whom Leto with ordered hair had borne him, Apollo, killed them both, before ever the down gathered below their temples, or on their chins the beards had blossomed. [...]”

11.317-320.

Eurynome the housekeeper said to her in answer: ‘Now all this you have said, my child, was fair and orderly. Go then, and speak a word to your son, hide nothing. Only first you should wash your body and anoint your face. Do not go down with a face so ravaged all over by tears, as it now is, since nothing is gained by indiscriminate sorrowing always. For now your son is come of age, and you know you always prayed the immortals, beyond all else, to see him bearded.’

13.169-177.

If we consider beards as an indication of age, then it is possible that the artist mentioned by Pausanias deliberately chose who to give a beard or not. Agamemnon has a beard, but Antilochus, Protesilaus, Achilles and Patroclus don’t. And when thinking about Antilochus, it’s easy to remember that in the sources (including The Iliad) he is repeatedly described as one of the youngest in the army. In turn, part of Achilles' tragedy is that he dies young. In their case, certainly the absence of a beard can be justified as an indication of youth. So I don’t rule out the possibility that the artist imagined a young Patroclus.

Posthomerica, Ioannis Tzetzes

In the Posthomerica of the Byzantine Ioannis Tzetzes (don’t confuse with Quintus of Smyrna), the description of Patroclus is “Patroclus was middle-aged, potbellied and well-bearded. He had blond hair, red skin and lovely face” (translation: Ana Untila). I know there is the Greek text somewhere because I saw it while analyzing the description of Achilles in another post (more specifically, his eyes). I, however, can’t find it anymore, so I won’t even try to see what it is in Greek and will simply consider the English translation.

Here, Patroclus is considerably older than Achilles, already middle-aged. This would make him at least in the generation of Agamemnon. This is certainly an unusual age for Patroclus, who doesn’t tend to be so old as to equal characters of the Atreide generation. He has a beard, which doesn’t tend to be an element in the surviving literary sources, but is recorded in visual sources before Tzetzes. Tzetzes describes him as blond, which is unusual. I can think of no other source, either visual or literary, where Patroclus is blond rather than brunette or at least of undefined hair color. His body is potbellied, also not found in any other source, but it distances his physique from that of Achilles (including Tzetzes's Achilles, who is described differently). Patroclus's skin is red, though I’am not sure if Tzetzes intended him to be the sort of blond with pink undertones or if this is a way of indicating time in the sun. “Lovely face” is nothing more than an indication that he is handsome, and heroes being described as handsome isn’t uncommon.

And finally, we have some surviving visual representations. I won't post them here but just link them to avoid any limitations on the number of images on Tumblr.

See here. On a black-figure Kylix, two men in military clothing are depicted, one healing the other's arm. These are Achilles (the healer) and Patroclus (the one being healed). Here, Patroclus is a man with short curly hair, a prominent nose, long eyelashes, a beard and mustache. The detail of the nose is more discreet, but compare it to Achilles's straight nose and it’s more notable. Blessed were the hands of whoever decided to give Patroclus this nose! In any case, Patroclus being depicted with a beard while Achilles is beardless may have been an artistic device to indicate who is the older of the two.

See here. On this black-figure pottery, there is a depiction of Agamemnon's Embassy sent to convince Achilles to return to war (Book 9 of The Iliad). Big Ajax is very clearly absent, but the other elements are there. We have a rather bald old man who is supposed to be Nestor, a chill man who is supposed to be Odysseus, a sullen young man who is supposed to be Achilles, and behind this sullen man there is another young man who is supposed to be Patroclus. Patroclus looks quite similar to Achilles: a beardless young man with short hair and an athletic build. He also does a cunty pose. This isn’t relevant to the subject of this “source collection”, I just wanted to point it out. In any case, the similarity between Achilles and Patroclus can probably represent that they’re from the same generation, that is, they’re very similar in age. And since Achilles is young, so is Patroclus.

See here. On an Attic black-figure amphora attributed to The Priam Painter and thought to possibly date to around 520BC-510BC, we have Achilles doing his typical Achilles thing of dragging Hector's body, which is tied to a chariot. And here you might think, "But Birdie, Patroclus is obviously already dead at this point. I even remember Hector being dragged around his tomb. You wanted to show Patroclus' tomb as a joke? I don't see a tomb." But that's not what this is about...it's just that on this pottery there's a little guy flying up there. See him? He's a tiny little guy in armor. This little guy, my friend, is the soul of Patroclus. Not exactly useful for knowing what he looks like, since he's wearing a helmet. I mean, those are of course killer thighs, but that's because of the style of this kind of art. That is, it's not exactly useful for the purposes of analyzing the character's appearance, but I wanted to include mini Patroclus.

See here. And these are fragments, but I swear there's a reason they're here. Thought to probably date to around 580BC-575BC, these are recovered parts of what was supposed to be an Attic black-figure kantharos. One of the surviving pieces shows a bearded man with an inscription next to it (and a silly face). According to the British Museum, this inscription is supposed to be the name Patroclus. Since I certainly can't read the writing, I'll trust the Museum's description.

See here. An Attic black-figure calyx potentially dated to 530BC found in Phthia, painted in the manner of Exekias. This represents the conflict for the body of Patroclus, which is the corpse on the ground. He is a slender young man, beardless and with long (apparently straight) hair.

See here. An Etruscan cinerary chest probably dated to 300BC-100BC depicts what appears to be the death of the Trojan prince Troilus, the young (apparently teenage) man riding the horse. The young man pulling him off the horse is Achilles, another man next to him is identified as Patroclus and the winged woman is said by the British Museum to be a Fury. There is a Phrygian hat on the ground, probably belonging to Troilus and knocked off by the sudden movement of being pulled by Achilles. Other than that Patroclus certainly has a big ass in that, there isn’t much else to comment on Patroclus' appearance. Perhaps the lack of a beard, I think. The shield covers his mouth, but you can see from the side of his face that Patroclus has no beard.

See here. Dating probably to the 1st century AD, a Roman fresco found in the House of the Tragic Poet in Pompeii depicts Briseis being led away by the heralds of Agamemnon. There are two men in the center (Briseis is on the side), namely Achilles and Patroclus. Patroclus is a young, beardless, tanned man with short brown hair and apparently also dark eyes and he holds Briseis' arm, probably handing her over to the heralds as ordered by Achilles (Book 1 of The Iliad).

See here. Another Roman fresco found in Pompeii, this time in the House of the Golden Cupids, shows Briseis, Achilles and Patroclus. The torso and face of Achilles are missing, only his legs. Briseis is entirely visible and Patroclus is almost entirely visible. You can't see his eyes, but he is a young, tanned, beardless man with short brown hair. It is, in fact, quite similar to the earlier fresco.

See here. Supposedly dated to around 30 BC-AD 80, a Roman marble panel depicts in relief what are apparently Agamemnon's heralds coming to take Briseis (Book 1 of The Iliad). The young man sitting looking away is Achilles, the only woman in the scene is Briseis, the older man + the partially cut man are the heralds, and the other young man (the one between Achilles and Briseis) is Patroclus. I don't know exactly how these identifications were made, but I imagine that the fact that young man 2 has his hand on the woman's shoulder helped with the identification of him as Patroclus, since in The Iliad he is the one who brings her to be give to the heralds. Notably, Patroclus again resembles Achilles: an athletic young man with short hair and no beard.

See here. Theorized to date from 100-200 AD, this Roman fresco depicts Agamemnon's heralds carrying Briseis. From left to right, the theorized identifications are: Patroclus (because he is the other young man in the company), Achilles (because of his typical head-in-hand pose and long blond hair), Phoenix (because he is the elderly character who would be in Achilles's area at this point), Briseis (the only woman in the scene) and the heralds (who are with Briseis). If it’s Patroclus (and let's face it, it’s quite likely), then here he is a young man, beardless, pale, with short, wavy brown hair and dark eyes. His face is very similar to Achilles', although I don't know if this is intentional or simply a consequence of the style. Interestingly, he also appears to be one of the shortest in the scene (Achilles doesn't count, as he is lying down).

See here. Probably dating from the 1st-3rd century AD, this Roman plaste glass gem shows three figures, with two men apparently placing a third on the chariot. It’s theorized that it may be Menelaus and Meriones placing Patroclus' body on the chariot to take it back to the Achaean camp. Well... because of the type of material, it isn’t very helpful in indicating the physical characteristics of the characters, but I’ll include it here anyway.

See here. Another similar case is one that is theorized to be Menelaus carrying the body of Patroclus. Again, not very useful for looking at appearances, but hey, I'll include it.

See here. I swear this is the last of its kind I'll shown (there are more of its kind theorized to depict Patroclus, but overall it's not possible to tell much about the physical appearance), two soldiers with one of them healing the other's leg. It's theorized to perhaps depict Patroclus and Achilles. I can't say for sure why this theory exists, but I'm going to assume it's because of the kylix with Achilles healing Patroclus. The only noticeable thing about it is the athletic body. 

See here. Dating back to the 2nd century AD, a Roman sarcophagus depicts Achilles mourning the dead Patroclus. Patroclus can be identified as the man lying on the bed (in this case, the corpse of Patroclus) and surrounded by people who appear to be mourning, with the figure sitting next to the bed appearing to be in the main one (Achilles, who also has the shortest hair of all the figures). He appears much older than Achilles, with short curly hair, a full curly beard and a straight nose.

See here. Probably dating from the 4th century, a bronze scabbard from the Roman Empire depicted two scenes. One of the scenes looked very much like Briseis being led away by Agamemnon's heralds, similar to the fresco already shown, and the other scene showed two men. One man is seated on what appears to be a throne, while the other looks alarmed. Probably because the other scene looked so much like Briseis being led away, it has been theorized that this scene was Patroclus asking Achilles to return to the war or at least let him wear his armor. After all, Patroclus only has to beg this because Achilles isn’t in the war, and Achilles is only not in the war because of the conflict with Agamemnon, so the scenes would complement each other. If this is indeed Patroclus and Achilles, then Patroclus is an athletic, beardless young man with short hair.

[smolwritingchick]

The Bangtan Gal Chapter 60- Running Man: The Golden Duo

Chapter Summary: Due to popular demand, Jennie is asked to guest star in a Couples themed Episode of Running Man, bringing Jungkook with her to go up against other groups of two

Words: 6,000+

Genre: One of my favs!! MAJOR Jungkook fluff and things get suggestive at the end with some suggestive Jungkook content!

Author's Note: I wanted to experiment just for shiz and giggles. Hope it didn't disappoint! <3 Lemme know what you think. And thanks again for reading!

-------

All over the K-pop news sites, there had been a poll on who viewers wanted to guest star on Running Man, and surprisingly, Jennie was voted one of the top favorable picks. Viewers were impressed with her athleticism and passion and wanted her back on the show.

Once she was called and asked about being on the show again, she was thrilled and eager to come back. Besides, the Monday Couple wanted revenge on her, so that added to the anticipation.

When told that there would be other guests, competing against each other in pairs due to the episode being a couples themed episode, Jimin and Taehyung quickly suggested that Jungkook should join and be Jennie’s partner.

Naturally, Jen and Jungkook happily agreed, ready to take on the challenge.

‘BTS’ Jennie and Jungkook to guest on an Episode of Running Man’

Running Man announced today through its Instagram that BTS’ Golden Duo, Jennie and Jungkook are currently filming their guest appearance on the show to compete against the Running Man cast and other guest stars in teams.

The article went on to explain that Jessi, 4Minute’s Hyuna and Gayoon, Hayoon and Amber would be joining in the episode to pair with the cast members. Positive reactions were in the comment section for The Golden Duo to be working together again since they made an impact the last time BTS was on the show.

When all the couples were on the set, they were paired out with one another and wore team colors. Jaesuk and Jessi wore green, Haha and Gayoon wore orange, Gary and Song Jihyo wore blue, Sukjin and Hyuna wore purple, Jongkook and Amber wore yellow, Kwangsoo and Hayoon wore brown and JenKook wore red. 

Each couple stood by one another, inside a cozy room. They were told that their first mission was to play the pepero game and whichever couple had the shortest stick, would win the round and be one step closer to winning Korean Beef at the end of filming.

“How many times have we eaten pocky sticks together?” Jen recalled while Jungkook let out a chuckle.

Yeah, they had this in the bag.

This would be the second time they were filmed eating pocky together, bringing back Rookie King vibes. It was going to be interesting how things played out at this time.

The Monday Couple were the first ones to go up. 

“Golden Duo, watch closely because our stick will be the shortest,” Gary warned

“Wow, tough crowd.” Jen chuckled

The Monday Couple were impatient to get their revenge on them for the tag game the last time they were on the show. 

“Don’t get too cocky. We’re dealing with the Golden Duo here. Don’t get them angry. These kids are dangerous.” Jaesuk exclaimed

Jen’s mouth upturned at his statement as everyone watched the Monday Couple munch on their stick at a fast pace. Their noses briefly touched, causing the rest of the couples to giggle. Their lips abruptly touched and the stick fell on the plate, looking around 1.5 cm.

“Golden Duo can’t beat that.” Gary taunted and high fived Song Jihyo.

Jennie and Jungkook glanced at each other and smirked with amusement. It’s best to let their actions do the talking instead of entertaining their comments. They weren’t bothered by the Monday Couple. They’ll still win for sure with a strategy.

Jongkook and Amber were called up next, grabbing a stick. They both were flustered and giggly, trying to take it seriously. Amber couldn’t help but stay still, squinting her eyes, chuckling to herself while Jongkook did all the work. He continued munching forward until the stick fell before he could go further. JenKook took sight of Haha and Gayoon munching on their stick, and they ended up letting their stick be a little bigger than the Monday Couple’s, who were confident in winning because no one had beaten them, yet.

Jungkook took a stick out of the box and met Jen’s gaze.

“Good ol’ Rookie King.” She mentioned, making them laugh at the memories. 

After they pulled themselves together, she stood in front of him. 

“Go slow and steady,” she advised, getting a nod in response from him.

Jungkook placed the end of the stick in his mouth, leaning down slightly for her to bite the other end of the stick.

“Start!”

They were told and slowly began munching, with their eyes on the stick. Both feeling keen to win and strategic to make sure their stick was the shortest, they ignored any distractions surrounding them which consisted of the Monday Couple playfully trash talking.

Jungkook ended up moving closer to Jennie, cupping her face as the stick got shorter and she slowly tilted her head to the side.

“You ship?” Amber glanced over to Hayoon, off camera.

“I ship,” she confirmed with a giggle.

“I ship too.”

Once their stick dropped on the plate, it was measured as everyone gathered around to see. 

It was announced, “It looks like 0.5 cm.” 

“No!” the Monday couple yelled.

“I ain’t even mad...” Jessi shook her head while Jen high fived Jungkook.

When it was Sukjin and Hyuna’s turn, they were a giggling mess and their stick accidentally broke in half, which made everyone laugh. Jessi and Jaesuk were finally up, going slow and steady. Jaesuk had accidentally dropped the stick, which made Jungkook place out a hand for Jen to slap for a low five, feeling good that they were still in the lead.

“Why is it so long? It should be shorter!” Jessi playfully scolded, causing Jaesuk to laugh nervously when she grabbed ahold of him.

“I-it was an accident!” he tried to explain

“Accident, huh?” she let go of him, narrowing her eyes.

Lastly was Kwangsoo and Hayoon. Jennie giggled at their banter when Hayoon kept covering her face, trying to get serious about the game. She was so adorable as her face became flushed. When they both had the stick in their mouths, everyone began freaking out when they started to munch. After their stick dropped due to Hayoon pulling back when he got closer, their stick was nowhere near close to JenKook’s stick.

“Winners! Jennie and Jungkook, Team Golden Duo!” the staff announced

Jungkook instantly fist pumped and high fived Jennie once again.

“This is unacceptable!” Gary complained.

“We’ll beat them on the next mission.” Song Jihyo reassured.

When they traveled to the next destination, Amber and Jennie had discussed a date when they would be free to hang out and catch up. Both being busy with their respective group comebacks, they managed to find some time to hang out next week. Jen couldn’t wait to hear what F(x) was working on.

For the second mission, each couple stood on a big platform surrounded by water, located in an indoor swimming pool. The mission was simple. All they had to do was push all members of the opposing teams off the platform and be the last team standing.

‘Round 1’

“I have a plan! Let’s all take out the Golden Duo!“ Gary called out.

Wow, again?

“Man, you thirsty! He’s so obsessed with us.” Jennie called him out.

“I agree, they can’t win again,” Kwangsoo added. “Let’s take them out.”

“Geez, what is this? Survivor?” Jennie pondered

“I think they’re just jealous,” Jungkook added.

When the game started, Gayoon had decided to make the first preemptive attack, going after Hyuna. She succeeded in shoving her off the platform as she watched Hyuna fall into the water, giggling. She was clearly unprepared and wiped the wet hair from her face. She’ll get her revenge on her group member in the next round.

Gayoon had tried to push Haha off and they began to try to overpower each other. The other teams had been watching their match and finally got into the game, going after each other. Jongkook effortlessly began shoving people off the platform with his muscular arms.

Cornering Hayoon, Jennie bumped her hip against hers, causing the GFriend member to lose her balance and fall into the pool. 

“Hips for days. Sorry Hayoon, love you.” Jennie waved.

“I’ll remember that!” Hayoon called out.

Due to the slippery water and her shoes, Jennie yelped, about to fall. Jungkook was quick to scoop her up, bridal style in his arms and she held onto him. The sudden action made her stomach flip as she locked eyes with him.

“Careful,” he mentioned with a reassuring smile.

Carrying her, they decided to go after Kwangsoo when he was distracted by trying to push Jaesuk out. Using her feet, Jennie kicked Kwangsoo on his back to make him fall off the platform. The motion caused everyone to start laughing at Kwangsoo and JenKook’s unique teamwork.

“I wasn’t ready!” Kwangsoo yelled, with his guard down.

Getting set down, Jennie watched as the rest of the teams were all up on each other, grabbing and pulling, trying to shove each other off. Sadly, Jen ended up getting pushed off due to Song Jihyo tripping her. 

Swimming back up to the surface, she watched the rest of the match, rooting for Jungkook. When it was down to him and Gary, Jungkook had easily shoved him off the platform to win the round.

“Yes!” Jennie got helped back up on the platform by Jungkook and happily celebrated their victory.

“This cannot happen again!” Gary complained.

For Round 2, Jennie went on a defensive route, surviving with Jungkook as she managed to protect him. She would constantly get in front of him, shoving anyone back who tried to go after him. Jongkook, the tiger, began to get ganged up on, as most of the teams strived to shove him and Amber off the platform. Once they failed to shove Jongkook and Amber off, they went straight after the Golden Duo.

“Oh gosh.” Jennie stood back to back with Jungkook. 

After she took in the sight of what was going on, Jen made her move, grabbing a hold of Hyuna’s manicured hands. Miss Bangtan used her strength to shove her into the pool. Turning her awareness to Kwangsoo, he let out a yell, staring at her in horror. 

“Nope! Nope! Nope!” he ran and jumped off the platform

Meanwhile, Jungkook had worked on pushing Sukjin and Jaesuk off the platform. JenKook regrouped and stood in front of Jongkook and Amber. Jennie and Amber go after each other, clasping their hands together, attempting to push each other off while giggling at each other. Amber slipped on the platform and Jen took advantage by rolling her to fall into the pool. 

Turning to Jongkook, she noticed that Haha was trying to shove him off, ignoring Jungkook and she helped Jungkook up, bringing him to safety. The two managed to shove Haha and Jongkook off and happily high fiving each other.

“How many people have they taken out so far?” Amber laughed.

As the round progressed, Jungkook was shoved out by Song Jihyo. He was annoyed that he had lost but rooted for Jennie to win the game for their team.

Jessi had attempted to push her off the platform. 

“Sorry, hon. You gotta go.” Jessi said but Jen stood her ground and managed to push her off instead with the help of using her feet to trip her.

Distracted from Jessi, Jennie felt a strong push on her back and fell into the pool thanks to Song Jihyo.

“Yes!” Gary happily shouted, applauding her.

"Darn it..." Jennie swam up and Jungkook pulled her into his arms.

"Take that Golden Duo!" Song Jihyo smiled victoriously.

"We told you we'd beat you!" Gary added as the audience laughed at how passionate the Monday Couple was about beating The Golden Duo.

"Don't worry about it. We'll get 'em. Good job," the Golden Maknae reassured Jennie with a smile and gently moved some of her wet hair from her face.

In the end, Song Jihyo won the round for her team.

For the final round, everyone ganged up to take out Jongkook first, creating a big group on top of him. Jennie avoided the chaos with Jungkook and decided to start pushing people off who were near the edge to increase their chances of winning.

Standing in the middle of the platform, Gary and Song Jihyo faced off with the Golden Duo, as they tried to push each other near the edge.

“Jennie! I will get my revenge!” Gary yelled, grabbing a hold of her. "We are going to win this! We are not going to lose! We are not going to lose!” 

Miss Bangtan laughed, evading his attempts to shove her off the pool.

Song Jihyo shrieked when Jungkook easily picked her up over his shoulder and tossed her into the pool. With Jennie, she used her hips to bump Gary off the platform.

“Nothing personal.” Jennie shrugged, feeling victorious despite the Monday Couple’s complaints.

Kwangsoo had crawled away from them, on the platform but ended up getting rolled off by JenKook.

Near the end of the round, it was down to Jennie and Amber. They caught their breaths and stood in the middle of the platform. Going to strike, Amber had tried to trip Jennie, but Miss Bangtan evaded her move. It was a back and forth battle between the two, pushing and pulling each other, near the edge of the platform. In the end, Jennie caught an opening when Amber began to lose her balance on the edge. She then did one final push and watched as Amber fell into the water.

“Yeah!” Jennie cheered and jumped off the platform, landing into Jungkook’s arms. 

He embraced her and spun her around as they celebrated their victory.

“Great job, Jennie! You did it!” He giggled, wiping some of her wet hair from her face.

"Woo! That is what I'm talking about!" she giggled and wrapped her arms around his neck, hugging him tightly.

“ARMY is going to be very happy to see them winning on behalf of BTS.” Jaesuk chuckled.

“They really want this Korean beef,” Jongkook added.

“Why do they always win?” Kwangsoo complained.

"This is not fair!" Gary complained as the audience laughed.

“I think we should just give them the beef. They already won.” Gayoon giggled.

-------

For the last mission, everyone was scattered around a mall, by themselves. Jennie stood near an emergency exit, with her Korean spelled name tag stuck to her shirt.

On the speaker, it was announced that they would need to find their significant other. Once they reunite with their partner, they must team up and find the correct key. After they find the key, they must find the room where the key opens, and find a platform to land on while avoiding getting their tag ripped. If one person gets their tag ripped, the entire couple is eliminated.

“Gosh...really?” Jen cringed at the camera. “That’s...a lot of work.”

Once she heard the buzzer, the game began and she let out a breath. “ARMY, time to find our Golden Maknae.” she gave the camera a thumbs up and started walking with a cameraman following her.

With Gary, he carefully walked around the mall on the second floor. “I must find Jennie or Jungkook. We need to take out the Golden Duo, so they can’t win. Hopefully, I can convince everyone else.”

He was so fixated on making sure the two teenagers lost this time. They won too many battles. It was time to lose for a change.

With Hayoon, she chose to hide in a changing room that was in one of the clothing stores. 

“I’m going to hang in here for a little while,” she spoke on camera.

Back with Jennie, she walked slowly, looking at her surroundings. 

“All right...so far so good...” she mumbled. 

She recognized Gary walking by and immediately leaned against the wall, making sure he passed her, unnoticed. She let out a sigh of relief and quickly left the area to avoid being detected. 

With Haha and Gayoon, who had found each other, they go to each store to find the correct key. They came across three sets of keys, but none were the right ones.

“Found you!” Gary called them out, causing Gayoon to yelp in surprise. “Wait! Wait! I don’t want to fight. Let’s work together.”

“Why should we trust you?” she pointed out.

“I want to get the Golden Duo out, so they won’t win. Don’t you want to get them out too? Let’s work together, find Song Jihyo and take down the maknaes.”

“Well, those maknaes are insane.” Haha started to become convinced.

“Okay, we’ll work with you.” Gayoon agreed and the three of them began walking together around the mall to find keys and search for Jennie or Jungkook.

It looked like JenKook was in trouble if Gary continued to convince other teams to join him to take them out.

With Amber, she walked around, seeking to find her partner. “I have a feeling someone is hiding around here,” she murmured, going inside the store that Hayoon was hiding in.

Hayoon had heard a noise and remained quiet while Amber walked around to see if anyone was hiding. In the end, Amber couldn’t find her and ended up finding a key, but it wasn’t the right one. The rapper continued her hunt for Jongkook by leaving the store and going up the escalator.

Hayoon, still hiding in the dressing room, placed a hand over her heart. “Thank goodness. I don’t want to get my tag ripped anytime soon. Ah...maybe I should go find Kwangsoo. But I’m so scared. What should I do?���

With the Golden Maknae, he kept a low profile as he went to find keys. 

“Ah...I wish Jennie was here with me, right now. They are doing well to keep us apart. But I will find her. And we’ll win for sure.” he said to the camera, determined.

“Hey!” the sound of Jessi’s voice, caused him to look Jungshooked. 

He immediately began backing up while she walked after him. He ended up giggling at her as she tried to grab onto him to rip his tag off. His strength overpowered her attempts and he escaped. Jessi tried to run after him, but he was too fast and she stopped running. 

“I don’t know why I even tried.” she shrugged on camera, chuckling as the audience laughed.

Back to Jennie as she unsuccessfully discovered the right key in a shoe store, she came across the row of Nike sneakers. 

“Daaaaaamnnnnn, how much are these?” she exclaimed in English and picked up one of the shoes to check them out. “Yo...I need to get this after the show.”

Distracted, she was unaware that Hyuna and Sukjin had spotted her. Hearing footsteps, Jennie quickly set the shoe down and ran out of the store, with them high on her tail.

“Jennie!” Hyuna laughed and grabbed a hold of her.

“This is so cheap. You gonna run up on me when I was looking at Nike shoes? Really?” she evaded her attempts to grab her tag, defending herself against them both.

“Let us oust you, Miss Bangtan. We need to win this.” Sukjin responded.

“Sorry, but I didn’t come here to lose. I appreciate your determination. Not enough to take me out. Jungkook and I are going to win this.” she managed to push them away and escape. 

She ended up losing them, and she hid in another store to catch her breath, hiding behind the register. 

That was too close.

“Ah...I hate this. I want Jungkook. The heck, is he?” she complained.

Turning her head, she found another small box and opened it to find a key. Examining it, she realized that it was not the right key and placed it back. She abruptly heard Hyuna and Sukjin yelling in panic and loudly running past the store she was hiding in. She realized that Jongkook had found them and started chasing after them.

“So glad I’m not them right now,” she murmured.

As the game progressed, Gary managed to find Song Jihyo with Haha and Gayoon, discussing strategy when they found Jen or Jungkook to eliminate them. Unfortunately for them, they had bumped into Jongkook who had been chasing after Hyuna and Sukjin. The two teams instantly run with Hyuna and Sukjin, yelling and screaming all over the place. 

Hyuna got in an elevator but unluckily none of the others made it inside with her. When the door opened on the next floor, she saw the Golden Maknae quickly looking up from his feet, widening his eyes.

“Oh no!” she shrieked as he rushed in, grabbing a hold of her. “Wait, wait, please! The game just started!” she pleaded but unfortunately for her, he ripped her tag off to eliminate her and Sukjin from the game.

“Sorry, Noona.” Jungkook bowed and grinned.

‘Hyuna out. Hyuna out.’

Back to Hayoon, she still was hiding in her hiding spot. When she heard the announcement, she sighed out of relief when it wasn’t her partner. Out of nowhere, she shrieked when she suddenly saw the dressing room door swing open, locking eyes with her best friend, Jennie.

“Really?” Jennie laughed and took a seat next to her.

“Aw...it was nice when it lasted.” Hayoon pouted.

“Have you seen Jungkook?”

“I heard him in here a while ago. I have no idea where he went. Thankfully he didn’t find me.” 

“Thanks. Okay. See you.” she stood up.

“W-wait, you’re sparing me?”

“Yeah.” Jen nodded. “I love you, that’s why.”

Hayoon smiled at her answer and felt a little flustered.

“Just try not to get caught," Miss Bangtan warned. "And if we meet again, I won’t hesitate to take the tag off.”

“Gosh...you and Jungkook are so scary when competitive. Reminds me of our dodgeball game at school.”

“That’s riiiiight.” she kissed her forehead. “Be safe out there.”

“You too!” Hayoon watched her leave. 

Standing up, she decided it was time to move around and find Kwangsoo and some keys. No more getting scared. It was time to play the game.

As the game went on, Amber and Jongkook had found each other and were running after the rest of the teams that were plotting to find Jennie and Jungkook.

“Run faster! Run faster! They’re here! They’re coming!” Haha yelled.

“Ah...we are in deep trouble!” Jaesuk huffed

“This was not part of the plan! Work with us to take out the Golden Duo!” Gary pleaded.

Jungkook had found himself in the mix when Song Jihyo spotted him and started running after him. Now it was Gary, Song Jihyo, Haha, Gayoon, Jessi, and Jaesuk running after Jungkook while running away from Amber and Jongkook.

“Get Jungkook! One team has to sacrifice themselves so we can oust Jungkook!” Jaesuk shouted.

“Go! Go! Go! We’re losing him!” Gary yelled, determinedly.

Out of breath, Jungkook came to a stop and had to fend for himself desperately as he saw the three teams halt in front of him. The three teams were distracted because they wanted to focus on Jungkook but Jongkook and Amber were behind them and they weren’t sure what to do.

Out of nowhere, Jennie jumped into the fray, grabbing a hold of Jungkook from behind. He widened his eyes in surprise when he turned to see her, gesturing for him to run with her. Everyone noticed that Jennie and Jungkook were finally reunited and freaked out.

“No! This was not supposed to happen!” Gary whined as all the teams scattered to go after them and escape Jongkook and Amber.

“Ah! Separate them!” Haha shouted.

“They’re headed downstairs! Go down!” Jessi yelled.

Song Jihyo managed to grab a hold of Jungkook’s arm, which made Jennie get pulled back with him.

“Uh, uh, not today! Kook and I will live to see another day! Get off of him!” Jen made her lose her grip before running away with her Golden partner.

“Aish...these kids...they’re too fast,” Jaesuk called out.

“We are dealing with two pains in the asses here.” Jessi chuckled, shaking her head. “These kids need to go but they run so fast. So how are we going to beat them?”

Once Jennie and Jungkook found a safe area to hide, he wrapped his arms around her tightly for a hug.

“Are you all right?” she asked.

“I am just very happy to see you, right now.”

“Feeling is mutual. I really thought I wasn’t going to be able to make it. Catch your breath, I know you’re tired.”

They sat on the floor as he tilted his head back, making it rest on the wall. Jennie laid her head on his shoulder and rested with him while keeping her eyes and ears alert for anyone walking by. 

Finally, they found each other and can work on winning.

After resting for a while, they walked around the mall to find the keys. As they strolled down the hallway, they heard a loud noise behind them. Jungkook was quick to grab her to safety by wrapping an arm around her waist and pulling her against his chest. He looked both ways to see if anyone was there.

“That scared the crap outta me,” Jen said in English, exhaling sharply with a hand on her chest when they noticed that one of the camera crew had knocked over a plant by accident.

“What are we going to do? Everyone is after us. Should we go stealth?” Jungkook suggested as they continued their search for keys.

“No, I don’t think we should do stealth this time.”

“Really?”

“Yeah because they aren’t focused on getting the key, they’re focused on getting us out. They’re gonna do anything to eliminate us. They’ll try to corner us, distract us, this, that, and the third. We need to be quick and on full offense. No more messing around. We gotta win this. So, let’s find this key and if anybody runs up on us, we’ll rip the tags off. No more running away. I won’t let anyone rip your tag off. I promise.” she reassured him, placing a hand on his shoulder. “I got you, Jungkook.”

A bunny smile appeared on the Golden Maknae’s lips, motivated by her words. “I got you, first. Now let’s go.”

As time went on, the Golden Duo searched around, undetected, and managed to find the right key. All they had to do now was find the room to open the door and stand on the platform. 

Walking to the door that leads to the stairwell, Jennie opened it and walked in with Jungkook, only to spot Jaesuk, Jessi, Kwangsoo and Hayoon, Gary and Song Jihyo trying to get each other’s tags after they all had turned against each other.

The sight of JenKook caused Kwangsoo and Hayoon to rush down the stairs in panic while the rest of the teams were caught off guard and ran down the steps to avoid them. JenKook had decided to dash after them, going after the Monday Couple first for revenge. 

Running through a door, the Monday Couple had pushed to close it shut, only to have JenKook push forward to push it open.

“No! It won’t end like this!” Gary yelled.

“Don’t let them in!” Song Jihyo shouted.

Jennie, using her strength, gripped the doorknob and placed her foot on the wall, slowly pulling it back as the door gradually opened. Jungkook took advantage by grabbing Song Jihyo’s arm. He pulled her to him and used his other hand to search for the name tag on her back.

Riiiiiiiip

‘Song Jihyo out. Song Jihyo out.’

“Ah...I can’t believe this.” Song Jihyo slid down and sighed in defeat with Gary. 

After bowing and thanking the Monday Couple, Jennie and Jungkook continued their search for the platform.

“Are you okay?” Gary helped Song Jihyo up.

“Wow...the Golden Duo is no joke,” she mentioned, bewildered.

“They have to be the strongest guests we ever had. Iron Man and Captain America strength. This won’t be the end. We will get them next time.”

Near the end of the game, Jennie and Jungkook finally found the door. Managing to open it with no problems, they quickly jumped onto the platform as confetti popped out from the ceiling, making them the winners of the game.

All the teams had met up in the room to recap on the episode and congratulated JenKook on their successful win despite the odds not being in their favor.

Receiving Korean Beef as their prize, Jungkook happily announced, “We’ll eat this proudly. Jin Hyung, prepare to make this for us when we get home!”

“Ahhhh, they came to our show and won everything. They cannot be beaten.” Haha shook his head as everyone laughed

Once Jennie and Jungkook went back to the dorms with Seijin, the members greeted them with loud cheers when they saw the Korean beef in their hands. 

A victory dance commenced between the members and afterward, Jennie showered and helped Jin cook the beef. 

After dinner, Jennie chose to turn in early due to the full meal and long day of filming. Wearing a white tank top with black shorts, she dozed off in her warm bed.

-------

Buzz Buzz Buzz

Stirring in her sleep, Jen slowly woke up and grabbed her phone off the nightstand. Squinting her eyes at the high brightness of the screen, she turned her brightness down and checked out the message.

Kookie: You awake? I have a headache. Could you massage it away?

Jen: Sure. Drink water and then stop by

She sat up and stretched her limbs. Turning on the lamp, she turned to look at the time. It was past 1am. It looked like Jungkook was done gaming for the night with the rest of the Maknae Line. 

Noticing that her bun was messy, she realized that her bonnet had fallen off while sleeping. Yawning, she took out her bun and shook her hair out, deciding to fix it after massaging Jungkook. 

Hearing a firm series of knocks on her door, she called out with her voice filled with sleep, “Who?”

“Golden Maknae in need of Miss Bangtan’s famous massages.”

His bright voice made her smile. “How much are you paying?”

“I’m sure we can negotiate with smarties.” he quipped, making her giggle softly.

“You got me there. Enter my realm.”

She watched him walk in with a big smile as he closed the door. She noticed he was wearing one of his many white shirts and a pair of shorts that came to his knees. His hair was messy, too, it made him look even cuter.

She scooted over as she felt the bed dip when he got on the bed to lay down next to her. 

“I told you don’t eat so much candy. But what do you do? Eat a lot of candy. Now, look at you. Suffering from a headache.” she scolded.

“The candy Hyung buys is really good. I can’t help it.”

“I can’t help it.” she mocked in a low voice, making him chuckle. “How much did you even eat after dinner?” she let him lay his head on her lap as she gently began to massage his temples.

“You don’t want to know.” he let out a content sigh, closing his eyes.

“No more eating a lot of sweets, especially before you go to sleep. Those sugar headaches are killer. And make sure you drink more water and take aspirin."

“Yes, ma’am.”

“You’re a handful.”

After a while, he ended up falling asleep, with his headache nearly gone. She gently removed his head from her lap and let him sleep next to her. Moments later, Jen decided to play on her phone, to pass the time until she felt herself getting tired.

After ten minutes, she glanced over at the Golden Maknae, watching him sleep as his chest rose and fell slowly. Placing her phone on the nightstand, she turned to her side, to continue observing him. Her hand slowly ran through his soft hair. Gently brushing her fingertips against his cheek, she absentmindedly ran her thumb over his bottom lip. Glancing at his lips, she quickly shook the thought away and removed her hand.

‘The heck was that Jen?’ she looked away from his lips but couldn’t help but look back at them.

Jungkook had grown up. His vocals get better and better throughout each comeback. He had gotten so much taller, it was like it was yesterday when they were almost the same height. His English skills improve day by day, making her proud of his efforts. And he had become so handsome over the years.

Her body began moving on its own as she found herself slowly leaning down. She stopped midway, looking at his gentle face. Closing her eyes with hesitation, she pulled back. 

Jen laid on her back and looked up at the ceiling, inhaling and exhaling deeply. She didn’t understand what she was doing. What this strange feeling was. 

Turning her head to the side, she looked at him, falteringly.

After a moment, she turned her body on her side and leaned forward to press her lips to his. She kissed him softly while closing her eyes. His lips were softer than she anticipated, taking her off guard. Nonetheless, she felt something strong from the kiss. 

When she realized what she had done, she pulled away, confused by her abrupt actions. 

‘What the hell, Jennie? Why did you do that? Stupid, stupid, stupid. I am such an idiot.’ she thought to herself, touching her lips.

She was so fixated on thinking of what she had done, that she didn’t even notice Jungkook slowly opening his eyes.

Consequently, he knew exactly what she had done and when she met his gaze, her stomach dropped.

Busted.

She stiffened, widening her eyes while her face felt flushed. All she wanted to do was crawl into a hole. She had no excuse for her actions and couldn’t even think of coherent thoughts without making a fool out of herself.

“...u-um-I’m...” she hesitated, averting her eyes from him. “I-I’m sorry, I don’t know what got into me. I think I’m gonna go get something from the kitchen.”

She began scrambling to get out of bed but felt his warm hand, firmly grabbing her wrist to stop her from getting off the mattress.

“Don’t leave,” he whispered.

Jen let out a sharp gasp when he gently pushed her down on the bed, feeling the soft, warm sheets under her. Her heart raced quickly as she watched him slowly climb on top of her, placing his palms on the bed, next to both sides of her head.

She couldn’t look at him in the eyes as she felt a mixture of crazy emotions while still feeling awkward by her previous actions.

“Look at me,” her thoughts were interrupted by the sound of his low voice. 

She nervously held his gaze, unable to ignore his request. She didn’t understand where this sudden desire to kiss him was coming from and it bothered her.

It bothered her because she shouldn’t even be in this foreign position with him.

It bothered her because the way he was staring at her made it harder to resist him.

It bothered her because he looked so enticing and she anticipated what he was going to do to her.

Her chest rose up and down with the butterflies in her stomach getting worse. She watched him take a good look at the position they were in. 

From his face, it seemed like he was contemplating if he should risk it all. It was like he was struggling to suppress the urge to do whatever his mind was thinking of doing to her. She regarded that he had licked his lips and placed his bottom lip in between his teeth as his eyes traveled down to her bare, thick legs. When he locked eyes with her, she felt her nervousness intensify.

He slowly leaned down, pressing his body against hers, gently kissing her softly. She froze, widening her eyes as she felt his lips move on hers while he tilted his head to continue kissing her slowly.

‘What the hell? What the hell are we doing? What the hell are we doing?’ she thought in panic.

His lips were tender and he pulled away briefly, leaving her breathless. Jungkook moved some hair from her face before leaning down to crash his lips against hers again.

Part of her wanted to push him off.

Tell him that this should not be happening.

But his kisses were too much to handle and she found herself kissing back, uncertain. She wrapped her arms around his neck, pulling him closer. Gradually, she became in sync with his lips, finding a rhythm, despite her lack of kiss experience.

With a hand in his soft hair, she ran her fingers through it. Shortly after she felt his large hands caressing her legs and she hitched a breath. 

Jungkook’s hands were all over her. Places that a friend shouldn’t be touching but he was so gentle that she couldn’t help but melt into his touch. They slowly eased back from their lingering kiss to catch their breaths. 

Jennie, unable to resist and giving in to this heated encounter, sat up with him to straddle him on his lap. The sudden gesture made him grunt softly as she gripped onto his shirt. 

The way he looked at her looked like he was giving her permission to do whatever she wanted. Sensing her hesitation, he ended up guiding her hands to remove his shirt before tossing it to the side.

'Oh my God...' she thought as she ran her hands down his chest and then took his face in her hands. 'What's gotten into me?'

She resumed kissing him again as she felt warm and tingly. Each kiss felt better than the last one, making her feel good. Their kissing got heated as he slowly ran his hands down her back and squeezed her hips. He was starting to drive her crazy as he continued his frisky behavior when his hands slowly traveled down to squeeze her rear. The sudden gesture made her jump and let out a squeal of surprise before resuming their heated kissing.

Once they pulled back to breathe again, a thought in her mind made her place a hand on his chest, as the doubts came back.

‘We shouldn’t be doing this...I should not have kissed him. This isn’t right. But it feels right. But friends don’t do this. We need to stop. This can’t go any further. I need to get out of this.’ she thought, feeling conflicted with everything that was going on.

Jungkook noticed her pulling away and closed the gap by pulling her back against his body.

"Don't. It's okay," he murmured and swiftly laid her back on the bed, climbing on top of her to kiss her again.

Jungkook made her forget about the doubts as he deepened the kiss, causing her to softly moan. It made her feel embarrassed that an abrupt sound like that came out of her since she never made a sound like that before. She felt his strong hands grab her wrists, pinning them on the bed, beside her head. His hands gradually slid up to her hands slowly intertwining his fingers with hers. He kept a firm grip, making her unable to escape his passion.

Jungkook took his time, placing sweet kisses on her face. From her cheeks to her jawline, he made her feel wanted and cared for. He needed to stop kissing her like this. Every time he kissed her sweetly, he would glance at her lovingly before doing it again. His kisses were making her heart pound. She couldn’t take much more of this.

Turning her head to one side, she closed her eyes and let out shaky breaths when she felt him shift down to her neck. His nose nuzzled against her neck before placing, soft and gentle kisses around it, leaving her panting from the foreign feeling.

‘Oh God...why am I enjoying this?’ she thought as she threw her head back against the pillow.

She tightened her hands against his, writhing underneath him while trying to fight back any sounds. Of course, with Jungkook pinning her down to the bed, focused on her neck, she failed miserably, becoming undone. Jungkook appeared to be satisfied with his efforts and her reactions because he let out a low chuckle in response.

“Jungkook,” she whispered breathlessly as she felt his warm breath against her ear.

“Relax, baby girl...” he whispered, feeling her squirm from all the overwhelming and foreign feelings in her body.

This was torture, what he was doing to her, and she couldn’t do anything as he held her down.

"Do you trust me?" she heard him ask in her ear, making her shiver. 

"Y-yes," she breathed out. 

Suddenly he let her go and began kissing down her neck and started to move lower, making her feel flushed

"W-wait...where are you going?" she stuttered with her breathing increasing as she placed her hands in his hair when he continued to travel down to her stomach. 

Never would she think that Jungkook would ever do this, especially to her.

----

Jennie ended up falling off her bed with a big thump. She quickly got back to her feet. Snapping her head from side to side, looking around, she noticed that no one was in her room but her.

“What the hell...?” she placed a hand on her hair, which was still in a bun, and checked her phone to see no messages from Jungkook that indicated that he needed a massage tonight.

She then realized that she was just dreaming.

“Oh no. Oh my gosh, please. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.” she started pacing around, in panic. “No. No. No.” she shook her head repeatedly, trying to get the thoughts out of her mind.

It startled her that she just dreamed about her friend this way. 

“That meant nothing. That had to mean nothing.” she tried to convince herself. “No way. No way this would happen. Why did I dream of that? Why? Am I drunk? Did I eat one too many Smarties? Get it together!”

She slapped her cheeks with her palms. Going into her small bathroom, she splashed her face with cold water and sat on top of the toilet seat, to collect her thoughts.

That imagination...came out of nowhere.

Jungkook would never think of this, would he?

He would never think of her like this, right?

So why did she think of him like that?

He probably never dreamed of her like that, either, so why did she?

He would never think about making out with her, would he?

She was so confused.

Friends don’t just make out with each other like they did in that dream and she shouldn’t be having these types of thoughts of him.

“This is wrong. We can’t...we’re friends.” she reminded herself. “Best friends. In a group. We are in a group, working together. Professionally. This...can’t happen. It meant nothing. It meant nothing, Jennie.” she tried to convince herself as she worked on pretending that the dream didn’t happen.

Boy, it was going to be hard to act normal around Jungkook in the morning.

[sophietv]

The Love Blackout "It's all part of the f*cking story"

Ok, this is gonna be a long post. But hopefully, this will help you understand this very important piece of Kaylor evidence and explain LSK a bit better too.

PS: I'm new to Tumblr, while doing my research I'll tag those post/blogs but I don't know if there's anything else I should do, let me know!

Love Blackout Meaning

So all this Love Blackout discourse comes from those Glitch lyrics:

"But it's been 2190 days of out love blackout, the system's breaking down"

First, let's start by looking at what Love Blackout is supposed to mean:

"A suppression of information, especially one imposed on the media by the government"

Interesting... a suppression of information imposed on the medias 🤔

Like not being seen/papped together by the medias??? Maybe.

2190 days

Knowing Taylor, she wouldn't use 2190, a very specific number, for it to mean nothing would she??

So what does 2190 days means in years? It's 6 years:

Didn't she recently talked about a relationship, 6 years AND the medias recently?:

Yes! In her Lavender Haze Instagram Reel! The same where she talked about that scene in Mad Men 🤔

"If the world finds out that you are in love with somebody, they are gonna weight in on it"

"Like my relationship FOR 6 years"

Funny how she didn't say her relationship OF 6 years.

She wanted to protect the real stuff from media, in the last 6 years.

So if you count the days backward since Midnights release on October 21st 2022 it gives you Octobre 22nd 2016.

The last time Karlie and Taylor were papped together was at Drake's birthday on Octobre 23rd.

But The Love Blackout was not over on Midnights release day.

Taylor and Karlie were still not papped together at an event (they weren't papped at reputation stadium tour, they just posted a picture together). So Midnights release day should count in our calculation. And if you include that day. It ends exactly on Octobre 23rd 2016.

Before taking a deep dive into this Love Blackout, let's take a moment to talk about Octobre 2016.

Because A LOT of important stuff happened that month.

Octobre 2016

Octobre 11th 2016:

Taylor goes to diner at the Waverly Inn restaurant with Suki Waterhouse, Cara Delevigne and Dakota Johnson.

Later that evening, Suki posts a table cloth with : "It's all part of the f*cking story" written on it and a "K". She deletes it not long after. But us Gaylors have all jumped on it already.

Plus, one of Taylor body guard is papped leaving the restaurant with that Table cloth:

But what story?? What does it all mean??

Let's look at what happened in the days after this event.

I'm sure Taylor had a plan 😉

Octobre 12 2016:

Taylor goes to the Kings of Leon concert with the same friends and some more.

It's funny because, it's at this very concert, that Taylor is rumored to have started her relationship with Joe.

Are you starting to see the "f*cking story" they were talking about??

Soure iwanthermidnightz : https://iwanthermidnightz.tumblr.com/post/615953412601823232/in-conclusion

Octobre 13th 2016:

The next day. On a 13th.

Taylor, Karlie and Serena Williams go out at the Bowery Ballroom.

Yes. Yes, this combination of names is suspicious 🤔

Back to the 2190 days:

So we have established that counting backward from Midnights release and including Midnigths release day. We have Octobre 23 2016.

This was Drake's birthday party and Taylor attended with Karlie:

The article was published the next morning

In fact, it's the last time ever that they both were papped at an event together: (Love Blackout)

Two important Kaylor Lore came from that Party:

Golden tattoos "made your mark on me, a golden tattoo"

The Third Polaroid

If we follow the Love Blackout definition : "A supression of information imposed on the media"

We can stop there, everything makes sense, the song ties back to Karlie, that moment and everyone is happy.

But what if there's more to this?

The Blood Moonlit Implication

corneliastvendor did an incredible find: https://kwyw.tumblr.com/post/711447685996167168?is_related_post=1

(I also use picture of their post here)

Stay with me on that one and I swear this will all make sense!

Plus there's a lot to unpack after this.

In Glitch, there's the lyrics: "Nights are so stary, blood moonlit"

Blood moon is a lunar eclipse.

There is even a bloodmoon the Glitch Official Lyrics Video:

And when was the last lunar eclipse following Midnights release?

source: corneliastvendor

On Novembre 8th 2022.

If we count the days backward where does it lead us?

source: corneliastvendor

It leads to Novembre 9th 2016.

Karlie and Taylor last event that they attended together (except reputation) is Lorde's birthday on Novembre 7th 2016.

On Novembre 7th Taylor posted this picture:

And Karlie posted the same picture the day after on Novembre 8th:

It's the last post about them attending an event together (beside reputation).

The presidentatial election also happenened on Novembre 8th 2016, and Trump was elected... (I believe this is important).

So the last post of them at an event together is on Novembre 8th 2016. Wich means that the Love Blackout would have started the day after right?

Exactly 2190 days since the blood moonlit night followingg Midnights release.

And something tells me that this specific date is really important in their story, because here's a screenshot of The Man MV:

The. Exact. Same. Ring. and pose...

Lorde's birthday, is also the first time ever that Taylor wore the Victora Secret Angel Ring.

source: tilynation

I think she wore this ring there, knowing that they won't be seen together after as a way of being able to flag Karlie in the future.

The VS angel ring is really important and Taylor wore it at many significant events:

All the making of videos of reputation

The Call It What You Want scene of Miss Americana

On Decembre 4th 2019 (Kissgate anniversary)

So last post together before they disappear on Novembre 8th 2016, same day as the US elections.

This ties back to those lyrics: "I recall late Novembre, slowly I said, holding my breath. You don't need to save me, but would you run away with me? Yes"

Remember that in Miss Americana, it's Karlie who says "Yes".

The Love Blackout:

During that time, after Novembre 8th 2016, Taylor is mostly in London...and so is karlie.

Decembre 2016:

Taylor spends the holiday at her in-laws in St-Louis.

January 2017:

Taylor is in London.

There's a very interesting entry in her Lover Journal that talks EXACTLY about the Love Blackout:

"I'm essentially based in London, hiding out trying to protect us from the nasty world that just wants to ruin things. We have been together and no one has found out for 3 monts now"

And it is almost words for words her Lavender Haze Instagram Reel....

(Las time they were papped together, in Octobre 2016, Drake's birthday party, 3 months before)

And who was in England during the exact time frame? Karlie!

I believe the picture was posted a couple of days after.

But regardless, this is important because look at the Swans.

And now look at the Lover Merch:

Plus, Karlie did a very cute post that month with Swarovski Swans jewelery:

Refering the Eye Theory while she was at it!!!

Also, Taylor said in the Long Pond Studio Session that she went to The Lake District a couple of years ago.

And in Invisible String we have: "Bold was the waitress on our three year trip Getting lunch down by the lakes. She said I looked like an American singer"

Kaylor anniversary is March 6th 2014. So Jan 2017 is close enough to that anniversary.

Plus, 3 years for Toe would have been in 2019, wich doesn't match the "couple of years" of LPSS...

Jannuary 11th 2017:

Taylor is paped going out of a gym in LA.

It's the first time that she is paped in a couple of months.

And she wears the VS Angel Ring

source: tilynation

In the reputation secret session she explained how she was overwhelmed by this.

"her thought process was less about herself and more about how she could possibly have a normal relationship when this was her life"

Source: https://www.tumblr.com/screamedsooloud/174932790840/i-have-heard-mixed-interpretations-of-dancing-with

She then went directly to the studio and recorded Dancing With Our Hands Tied

She cried for an hour before recording the song.

Thankfully, like the song says after the Love Blackout part is that the system is breaking down.

And we had some glimpse of this with the Twitter "glitch" that made Karlie repost some of her old Kaylor post. Or her facebook being hacked...

I truly hope they are able to be free soon, they deserve it.

[idylls-of-the-divine-romance]

Referring to your tags, I haven’t seen you talk much about universalism (aside from reblogging apilgrimpassingby). What don’t you like about it?

Heyyyyyyy.

So, I find Universalism to be basically Candy Coated Calvinism, which i find personally distasteful. In fact me and a fried have often noted that Calvinism (in it's perspective on predestination specifically) is only really a few steps away from Universalism. The lack of free well present in the view is something that I particularly dislike. The human dignity of free will is really important to me. I understand most universalists are purgatorial universalists but even still I don't think that works either. Scripture makes it pretty clear that there will be some separation and as this is the "Last Judgement" I think it makes the most sense that whatever happens will be final. There is also the problem of the anti-evangelism perspective that is rampant in universalism (though this is not innate to universalism, and I think results in a poor understanding of what salvation is but i digress).

I side with C.S. Lewis who saw "hell" as God's "greatest monument to human dignity", allowing those who did not wish to choose Him, to be allowed to choose exile into Outer Darkness instead. I go into more depth about that here.

There is one universalists perspective that I really, really like and think that every Christian should read whether they agree with it or not. It's an article here. It's called "Is Hell Real?" and is absolutely amazing.

I feel like this was poorly written lol. Sorry about that. If you have any questions, please do ask

@colorful-cryptid I was thinking about this last night and realize i made a grave mistake: I said i do not like universalism. I desperately need to clarify that this is not true. I actually LOVE universalism and I want it to be true so desperately. The only reason I am not a universalist is because i believe it's unbiblical. "There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord's own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason. If a game is played, it must be possible to lose it." - C.S. Lewis (i quote Lewis a lot when i talk about hell lol). I hate hell; Jesus hate's hell. According to (pseudo-?)Paul, God desires that all humanity be saved. But my current conviction is that his desire for the salvation of all humanity, is "thwarted" (poor choice of word) by goodness which mandates that humans freely choose life or death. The article "Is Hell Real?" though does address the free will concern in a way that i find interesting so *shrugs*.

My main point is i was mistaken in saying I "dislike" universalism and should've just said I "disagree with" universalism. My bad

[aluria-sevhex]

I BEAT THE GAME

a solid 3rd of my ISAT notes on my phone are just from 'today' (writing this past midnight lol)

my ISAT masterpost

every post in this series is also tagged as #Aluria plays ISAT for the first time (please don't spoil)

please note that there's a bunch of notes in this post because i was still in Act 3 at the beginning of this post lol

-i'm not playing it rn but i have decided to break my 'no looking stuff up' rule so i know where to go to make Sif rember what they say when carving stuff

[WRITING TUMBLR POST ALURIA NOTE: i later looked up maps of the House to help me keep track of stuff lol]

-ok now i know. i like figuring things out myself but i could not fucking remember lol.

-i have a really long car ride so. MORE ISAT

-title theme shout-out

-Sif tripped on a rock. "you're clumsy and not at all threatening and overpowered compared to them!" :(

-they almost forgot to catch Isa :(

-dang, Siffrin didn't say nya this time D:

-hehe they hit it back. one could say it's a... COUNTER-attack B)

-SIFFRIN GHOST ON THE WAY TO THE DORM

-WAIT FUCK DID I FORGET THE SHARPENING STONE

-fuck it i was planning to loop back after finding out what to say anyway

-ah don't i also need to find more i fo on the King somewhere? eh i can do that on the next loop... so much to keep track of...

-LMAO. THE PHRASE SIF SAYS. "please don't look bad please don't look bad please don't look bad" BIG FUCKING MOOD TBH

-Sif on his way to talk to their tools and project while carving or sharpening:

-aight time to die lmao

-Loop my belooped

-hm... it's Loop's job to remember Siffrin's mistakes...

-"you don't have to remember to yell' always gets me :(

-I FOUND THE ARTICLES

-ok so currently i'm thinking that the King and Siffrin are probably from the same place. which may or may not be where Loop is from and/or the disappearing island and/or connected to the color thing.

this game has a lot of weird shit going on.

-Bonnie doesn't know what a star is

-OH FUCK NO. AM I GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO THE OBSERVATORY. I'M LEAVING THAT FOR A LATER LOOP.

-another ghost :0

-ISAT: 📚

ISAT if Siffrin could pick locks: 📕

-WHAT. "you used to find them disgusting, but someone you knew loved them, so you tried them."

"someone you knew?"

"who?"

O_O

-aw, Isa hugged Mira on this bathroom trip

-"you wish for rest" yeah...

-"please be sharp, please be sharp, please be sharp"

-the Keyknife is now the Knifekey. WAIT. THIS MEANS IN THE FUTURE I CAN DO OTHER SHIT ON FLOOR 3. HELL FUCKING YES.

-wait. OH C'MON. boooooooo

-i picked malanga fritters and almost skipped past something that seems important. they remind Siffrin of his parents? :0 their head hurt...

-"BECAUSE YOU FORCED THEM TO!" :(

-"where r u from" "no u"

-JUST FUCKING CONFESS ISA FJHDHEJKSMXMDKSKS

-*sighs* guess i should talk to her. actually... what if i called Loop?

-huh. can't call them here.

-"i just hope that one day you might learn" WAIT THAT'S DIFFERENT- wait nvm i got things mixed up in my head :(

-"in this moment, you were loved"

-"that was a nice rehearsal" OH FUCK.

-i just skipped from loop 37 to 40

-time to kill myself with a banana! oop- *plantain*

-"you broke your head open on a rock" it did not use to describe it like that.

-wait. Sif. if you're annoyed there isn't a more dignified way in the village to loop. just kill yourself. you have a knife. just fucking kill yourself to loop forward.

-...fuck what the hell is this game doing to my thought process

-ok what should i look for in this room...

-"BUT YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO READ IT" in large font... :(

-:( Sif is trying to remember something and it's tied to the stars

-aight new thing to ask the king time to get myself killed via tear yippee

-seems like the King wants Siffrin to remember their home... "something we've all forgotten" this is definitely about the disappearing island and the colors

-i need to go to the library and find the books on it.

-hey isn't Rock also called Protection Craft? kinda interesting that the King has it

-damn i died to the King because of timing bullshit ToT

-"one more time."

-huh... it evades active remembrance

-it had a belief centered on the Universe...

-need to figure out why the King is obsessed with Vaugarde

-freezing something perfect in time... do i need to find one of those Time Craft books again?

-gonna loop forward to the King

-"even the King feels easy to fight, now"

"i still can't say it" the name of their home. he wants to be able to say the name of his and Siffrin's home. ouagh this game is going to leave me emotionally devastated ToT

-fuck i missed the option to ask Odile if she was going to continue her fake research on a loop where i didn't spend time with her

-"can we group hug after i talk to the Head Housemaiden?" oh?

-DAMMIT ODILE INTERRUPTED ISA THIS TIME

-time to talk to her. again. again and again and again and again

-"you can start breaking down now" lol

-"the curtain falls" DAMN

-"HERE AGAIN?" woah Loop why so aggressive?

-"i'm too lazy to open up new dialogue choices" lol

-hm... show Loop the souvenirs...

-wait huh. in another loop this lady in Dormont said she has no siblings but now she has a sister. odd...

-:O THE LONG THINGY-THING

-huh. Loop reacted kinda weirdly to the kid's doodle

-hey what if i gave Isa the flower at the end?

-FUCK I FORGOT THE FUCKING ROCK I GOT TOO COMFY. this is embarrassing

-hey hold up the theme that plays when everybody's discussing the country in the library is the same song that plays when Loop is recapping things

-hold up. the King was in Corbeaux. Corbeaux is where the House doing the color research is.

-took the photo. PERFECTLY FROZEN IN TIME

-oh fuck

-calling Loop

-hm. the star-shaped gate that's locked. is the passcode the name of Siffrin and the King's home?

-we're gonna use a bomb i guess

-i asked the King where he's from and uh... now a slowed-down version of the song is playing...

-what the fuck

-Sif and the King are going to die, aren't they?

-"BUT IT'S ALL GONE!"

-i'm going to loop forward and try to talk to the King. again.

-*sighs* the peel is so dorky

-FUCK I FORGOT TO EQUIP THE MEMORY OF KNIFEKEY

-wait. asking him nicely. FUCKING WORKED???

-"The Universe leads... we can only follow"

-FUCK. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME. OF COURSE. OF COURSE. OF COURSE. GO FUCK YOURSELF.

-so the King knows about the loops, even though he can't remember them.

-"Wish Craft" :0

-WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO.

-BONNIE NO

-NO NO NO NO UNHAND THEM

-BONNIE NO BONBON NO

-okay. i looped back. Bonnie is okay again. i just need to kill the King.

-hold the fuck up. it says i'm in Act 4. bad things mark the end of acts. Act 1 ended with me getting in the loops. Act 2 ended with killing the King failing. Act 3 ended with...?

-please don't let Bonnie be dead somehow

-THEY'RE OKAY THEY'RE OKAY

-...the little moments of time rewinding seem to correlate with Sif wishing to go back

-:O I CAN READ THE BOOKS NOW

-THE GATE. OH FUCK YEAH

-fucking hell when did i get (Just attack) because DAMN. Sif is so fucking done with everything.

-WISH CRAFT

-i just fumkign one-shot the Nostalgie on floor 1. "just attack" indeed

-"you need a break" :(

-Sif is like constantly teetering on the edge of a mental breakdown

-let's see how well they do against a boss

-DAMN

-ok so what the fuck was Euphrasie doing before shit hit the fan? and why does she blame herself for Siffrin's situation?

-i just realized something funny. if Vaugarde is fantasy France. and Siffrin and the King are from an island north of Vaugarde. DOES THAT MAKE SIFFRIN FANTASY BRITI- *gets shot*

-gate time.

-what was the question? what was the answer?

-"couldn't i just create another me? someone who'd understand?" ok so somebody's a clone got it.

-Loop? i should talk to Loop

-ok i guess i'll have to be like "hey Loop are you a clone?" in person (plot twist Sif's a clone :P)

-"i saw a weird shade" WAIT HOLD UP YEAH THAT'S SUS THAT SIFFRIN FUCKING SAW RED. OK THAT WAS DIAGETIC. FIRST COLOR IN THE WHOLE GAME.

-gonna kill the King again, talk to Loop, then loop again forward to Floor 2 to read the color theory book

-WAIT SIFFRIN HASN'T CRIED ONCE THIS WHOLE GAME BITCH REPRESSION IS NOT HEALTHY!

-"especially if she knows" Sif. did you forget Odile's name. OH FUCK

-"HOW BLINDINGLY WONDERFUL, FOR A ROLL OF TOILET PAPER TO BE THE ONLY HOPE YOU HAVE LEFT RIGHT NOW!" this would be so funny if not for the context

-"you wish for eternity" WAIT HOLD UP

-SIFFRIN IS USING WISH CRAFT. AND WHEN THEY PRAY TO THE CHANGE GOD STATUES THEY SEND THEIR WISHES. ARE THE BUFFS AND THE KEYKNIFE THE RESULT OF WISH CRAFT?

-hey Siffrin uses a more shy and sad portrait for the 'thank you' afterwards now :(

-FUCK I FORGOT TO SHARPEN THE KNIFE

-y'know what it's fine i have the bomb

-hey Sif i think what happened last time might've uh. traumatized you? ;-;

-welp. i used the bomb. it was anticlimactic.

-"i wonder how this country looks from the outside" *proceeds to imply that the time loop only affects Vaugarde* hold the fucking phone

-ok tho srsly Siffrin is in what looks like *extreme* duress

-oh damn Sif has different portraits for the 'you should disappear' bit. less smug and determined, more... *haunted*

-dang, can't give Isa the flower at the end

-*sigh* gonna talk to her again

-"the actor has become the director"

-there's a lot more theatre comparisons than there used to :(

-woah Siffrin you are weirdly enthusiastic to see Loop

-time to loop forward to read the books woooo

-Sif i am very concerned about this dialogue portrait. your enthusiasm is *desperate*

-hey something funny: people wish on stars

-this game has a LOT of motifs i love: wishes, stars, time, memories, etc.

-hm... what is Siffrin's 'ritual' when doing the wish-y thing?

-:0 a wish is trapping Siffrin?

-what if they're actually being trapped by their own desires or smth? like some sort of- WAIT. WHAT IF LOOP IS TRAPPING THEM SOMEHOW???

-i am in conspiracy mode i think

-moving forward to get to the library

-Siffrin is now level 85...

-maybe a wish is how the island disappeared?

-FAVOR TREE IS WISH CRAFT WOOOOOOOO

-i think the way Sif wished was from something they learned as a kid

-3, 6, 7, 13, all are numbers with significance

-HEY LOOP LOOK WHAT I LEARNED

-welp time to die ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-ok what is in that one house in the main part of Dormont

-hm. Euphrasie was apparently asking everybody what they wished for. she probably realized something tied to Wish Craft was wrong...

-maybe the list in Euphrasie's office cataloguing the names was categorizing based on wishes?

-looping forward

-"you're a living comedy sketch"

-my guess is that the wishing to save Vaugarde enabled Siffrin to loop so they could defeat the King, but something went horribly wrong, thus causing the loops to keep going

-ugh i need to talk in person. tear time!

-a sped-up version of the happy song after you beat the King is playing and Siffrin has the desperate enthusiasm portrait...

-Siffrin, you already tried saving Vaugarde.

-"maybe you don't loop because you die... but because you feel like there would be no reason to go on, maybe?" makes sense to me. Siffrin doesn't have anything to look forward to after defeating the King.

-"something that, to you, feels on the same level of hopelessness as death? on the same level as the world ending?" me when the time loop wants me to get therapy:

-hey Sif you just looped. right in front of Loop.

-looping forward to the King.

-Odile's realizing she's missing something. too bad she'll forget it. maybe i should try making the others really suspicious of me on a future loop

-"please don't interrupt" :(

-this game has me constantly on some variety of edge and i love it

-maybe this time Isa will get to confess?

-the static is starting and i haven't even talked to Euphrasie

-damn i did a minor loop back :(

-talking to her won't work. it can't work.

-STOP SAYING THE SAME DAMN THING STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT

-I WAS RIGHT AS TO HOW EXACTLY SIF GOT STUCK

-the wish is broken. MAYBE IF I DO SOMETHING ELSE MAYBE IF HE'S DEFEATED SOME OTHER WAY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

-OH FUCK. so Sif's current theory is that somehow he has to deal the final blow

-"You just need to defeat the King on your own" BUT YOU NEED THE OTHERS TO DEFEAT HIM?

-also damn the way Siffrin's thoughts spiral into a mess is a mood.

-i am now in Act 5.

-:( the Dormont music is slow now

-Sif's portrait in the menus has changed again, there is nothing in the body text of his profile, and their title is now "The Lost One" :(

-wait. the Change God statue is glitchy now and i can't get buffs there anymore

-Sif is like perpetually pissed off

-aaaand now Mira's upset

-Sif is going to fuck things up with the others as well, won't they?

-i think Odile's gonna figure out that Sif is in a time loop

-i feel like i'm in a horror game right now. well. i've felt like that for a while. but i am fucking terrified of Siffrin right now. Siffrin you need help please they only want to help you you can't bottle up everything or it only ends up worse

-the battle theme is slowed...

-sometime i should write a crossover fanfic where Rose Lalonde picks apart Siffrin, i think it would go very interestingly

-unrelated but i just realized Isa has a hair banana hehehe... i need to cling to levity while in this hell

-uh. dude. why is your dialogue looping

-SIFFRIN! I. I KNOW YOU'RE STRUGGLING BUT ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS HELP YOU AND YOU KEEP HURTING THEM PLEASE THEY ONLY WANT TO HELP YOU I KNOW VULNERABILITY IS HARD BUT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THEY'VE BEEN *TRYING* AND THEY'VE BEEN NOTHING BUT KINDA TO YOU AND IT HURTS TO SEE THIS SIFFRIN BECAUSE YOU KEEP GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND IT'S TERRIFYING!

-fuck man this game is getting me to care so much about this guy. Mental Illness Simulator 2023

-the irony of Sif calling Isa a coward who projects confidence but not backing it up... Siffrin is projecting.

-and yet despite all that... Isa still ended the conversation rather kindly ToT

-Loop seems really unsure and yeah. past me would not believe this but i am siding with the starheaded bitch.

-...Loop fucking LIED

-Sif is going alone

-oh dear the music

-most of the memories are gone. and the skills...

-level 99

-wait the room layout is fucked

-a Sif ghost but with a black hat instead

-"you're hungry" :(

-so. i think Sif just hallucinated his party members.

-"your stomach hurts. you feel cold." :(

-the world is glitching and breaking haha and i am scared i'm scared i'm scared Siffrin *please*

-how is the photo event occurring if i'm on my own?

-*oh no*

-ok brb i need to take a break

-ok back from my break and refreshed! now i can go back to Siffrin's Descent Into Hell

-entered Mira's room. her hallucination did the "head is covered in darkness creepily" thing...

-Odile...

-i'm in the Keyknife room except now the background is the post-King fight background...

-the feeling of the grim march towards a specific goal reminds me of the Undertale genocide route haha...ha...ha... ...

-stomachache, headache, and the smell of sugar...

-no more running, only a slow, slow, walk to the end

-"you've trapped this country in time even more surely than i have" oh fuck

-not often that a game makes me terrified enough for me to feel my heartbeat...

-red.

-his sprite is on the game over?

-where the FUCK am i?

-spooky shadow Siffrin

-OOO DO I GET TO FIGHT A MANIFESTATION OF SIFFRIN'S MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES?

-hm what does mal du pays mean- oh :( it translated to homesickness :(

-you can't fight your own shadow

-"it's not like you haven't let me die before, right?" *OH FUCK*

-you broke your promise didn't you?

-red

-dude i think the depression is collecting its due. loops and loops of bottling your shit up has been unhealthy and now you are paying for it :(

-"if something has been forgotten by everyone, has that thing ever existed?" FUCK

-red

-more red

-BRIGHT RED

-if i had a nickel for every rpg i liked where a monochrome manifestation of the main character's mental illness taunted him in a scripted fight, i'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. bonus: the dialogue box calls Mal du Pays 'something'! oh and both games open with a content warning i guess

y'know maybe the fact i found out about this game from a blogger that i followed for Omori stuff should've been some sort of indicator.

-"the sadness within you is right" FUCK

-OH GOOD SIF DIDN'T DIE THE FAMILY CAME TvT

-"a weird shiny person helped us!" LOOP :D

-AND THE MUSIC IS UPBEAT OH THIS FEELS SO GOOD TvT

-IT HAS THE TITLE SCREEN MOTIF TOO

-i'l have to look up the song later and compare to other themes but i think it might be a medley/remix? i've definitely identified the post-King fight theme and the title theme, probably more i can't clearly identify

-everybody's battle portraits are so bright and happy

-"i still cannot remember its name" :(

-damn. he froze. womp womp

-ok but what about Loop? what's going on with them?

-glitchy background...

-i'm on Act 5. aren't there like 6 acts? idk maybe this can end and Sif can move forward. then again... the last few times. that did not work out.

-haha Sif pls don't die on us rlly tho pls don't

-so slow...

-RED...

-Mal du Pays is following us

-FUCK

-*exhales* ok the darkness is gone

-is it weird that i kinda like this moment more than the moments of closeness with the others in Act 3? maybe cuz it feels more real, somehow... or because for once, Siffrin is the one being vulnerable...

-i think the problem was sticking to the script and treating the others like actors or well... NPCs

-FUCK FUCK FUCK NO NO NO DON'T YOU DARE GO INTO GLITCHY MODE.

-FUCK

-now that they're here they know something is wrong.

-please game please grant Siffrin one small mercy and let the others loop back with him this time

-RED

-uhhhhhhhh

-Sif did you just become your weird sadness self

-woah this is a beautiful scene

-WOAH. now THIS is a battle! and it is *beautiful*. the red and the stars...

-oh fuck. my options are hurt them or self-harm.

-wait are they HEALING ME? :(

-the battle menu simply refers to Siffrin as 'user'

-JGJRJENNDNRJE LMAO ODILE JUST PULLED A CLASSIC MOM MOVE LIKE "don't you dare storm up to your room earlier in time, young man!"

-forced group therapy

-oh, Siffrin's portrait

-i HATE that my options are hurt my friends or hurt myself. and i refuse to let Siffrin hurt their friends. it's... heartbreaking...

-chat i don't think the wish the player chooses was Siffrin's *actual* wish

-:0 hatless Siffrin

-AWWWW THEY'RE HUGGING

-aw... smiling Sif... hugging Bonnie :]

-:0 EVERYBODY IS SO HAPPY IN THE MENU!

-"It's you!!!!" also hey Sif's title is "The Traveler" again!

-"you will stay together for a little while longer" :]

-i love how the lack of hat makes the fact that Siffrin is really short apparent lol

-these new conversations are precious :]

-Odile thinks the fact that Sif loved everybody so much they got himself stuck in a time loop to be cute XD

-NO WAY. IS THIS FINALLY HAPPENING. IS HE FINALLY GONNA SAY IT?

-HELL FUCKING YES!!!!!!!!

-ok i just talked to all the housemaidens and Dormont residents. time to talk to Loop

-...

-maybe Loop was just. a manifestation of the wish...

-:0 THE SILVER COIN? ARE WE GONNA FINSLLY USE THE SILVER COIN?

-TvT

-I BEAT THE GAME :D

-:o Siffrin is no longer on the title screen

[anjinia]

I am new to jirai kei, but I just wanted to know some tips and other things I should be educated on in the subculture 🩷 I just don't want to come off as ignorant because Im new 🫶 so do you have any tips or things I should know? ⁠♡

TW: harmful behavior, s*x work, mentions of self-h*rm, i will try to talk about the differences, the stereotypes and the reason behind them, having the "jirai kei" as a main subject.

୨ৎ if you want to know more about the girly kei style you can ask me too!! like brand recommendations, tips on buying from japan, japanese clothes size, makeup, etc.

but please, keep in mind that:

• jirai kei 地雷系 (lifestyle) and dark girly kei (style that some of the jirai girls use) are two separated things and you can be jirai without using the style and you can use girly kei without identifying as jirai.

tl;dr: the western / social media vision of jirai is totally wrong. jirai kei in Japan isn't a style at all; jirai kei is a lifestyle that is seen as "unhealthy".

the term jirai kei came from “地雷系”. translates to “landmine-type”, not the literal meaning as “landmine”, is a japanese slang for "trigger" "red flag" “地雷を踏んだ”, meaning “i stepped on a landmine”. in reference to a person, a “landmine” is someone that’s so easily triggered over minor things that they keep exploding on others with abusive behavior, so you need to be as careful as if you were walking around a minefield.

this meaning has been around for about a decade, primarily used in dating advice articles about how to recognise “red flags” in a partner.

"but OP, it isn't a style?"

in those dating stereotypes, even the most arbitrary traits were considered red flags and wearing dark alternative fashion is already enough to have someone considered a potential landmine, the style in question is called dark girly kei. (style used by many jirai kei girls)

around 2020, jirai kei didn’t have any associations with any particular fashions or interests, but when a popular japanese makeup vlogger started a “psycho girlfriend” dress-up challenge and called the final look a landmine-type cosplay. she contributed to the stereotype that the landmine-types were often fans of dark girly fashion, every influencer was getting in on the trend, and cosplaying as a landmine-type psycho girlfriend, generally also tagging with “yandere”, then a lot of influencers did the challenge and lots of girlykei brands started to use the "jirai kei" terminology to sell more.

"why would someone call themselves jirai knowing that it means "psycho woman" in other words?? wouldn't it be romanticizing?"

popularly, there's a lot of people who call themselves jirai kei knowing about the difference of jirai & girlykei because of their mental conditions, i, myself use jirai kei to feel a little better about my mental state and to connect to other people who struggle the same as me, even if they stopped calling themselves jirai they wouldn't stop their unhealthy behavior, they're not mentally ill because of jirai, they're jirai because of their mental illness. the spaces for real mentally fucked people in the internet are so few, these people that are called "psycho bitches" exist and they shouldn't feel bad about being like this, they are the people who most struggle with all of it and it's their business if they want to call themselves it. telling people to not use the jirai kei term will not stop them to engage on harmful behavior, at the end those people are still mentally ill and have more problems than the terminology they use. might be thinking the "jirai antis" are some sort of saviors or something like that, if you really want to help those people don't blame it in the community and style they've found themselves.

all jirais don't have the same behavior even if all of them have a fucked mental state, some of them might be posting self-harm for validation, some are obsessed with their s/o, some doing sex work for attention, some of us has violent thoughts and bpd, some of us are just neurodivergent, or have depression, etc, is a form of venting/expression, and venting ≠ encouraging someone.

some info:

• the term hadn't changed its meaning, please don't act like it's some sort of "feminist movement" or even empowering.

• part the association of girly kei with harmful behavior is related to "toyoko kaiwai" (トー横キッズ) who's around Kabukicho, many of the members have been wearing various dark j-fashion styles before the "psycho girlfriend dress-up challenge" became a trend. they're credited as the reason for why those styles are associated with the landmine stereotype to begin with. they're been connected to under*ge pr*stitution, dr*g ab*se, public self-h*rm, murd*r and theft.

they are around age 9-24, (firstly known as toyoko kids, but like, there's a lot of adults in this) they're often privileged children who were convinced to get away from home by bad influences. and many members have died or been hospitalized as a result. for more info search the Japanese spelling on any japanese news site, or their signature hashtags on social media:

#/toho横界隈

#/トー横界隈

#トー横

recently, their former leader “Howl”, died by suicide while waiting in custody for a trial, (<- click for more info) -> (also here) for convincing minors to run away from home in order to “work” for him and dress in a way he finds attractive.

all these minors he "convinced" are victims, you can use the style without agreeing with this behavior and be jirai without agreeing with this, they're all manipulated children and it isn't their fault.