#she's unjustly hated for shit she didn't do

[sephirthoughts]

Vincent’s lingering obsession with Lucrecia is excellent drama, but their story is not a doomed romance.

This is an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think Lucrecia deserves nearly as much pity and excusing of her actions as she gets. This is not character-hate post, it's an analysis of a character I think gets short shrift as a Mother-Mary in a bell jar, and deserves better.

Lucrecia is morally grey. Charcoal grey. I love complex, morally grey characters, particularly when they're women, since usually women are relegated to roles that infantilize and objectify them, particularly in video games, which have historically been a very backward, androcentric medium. I strongly dislike brainless victims, subject to the whims of the male characters, without much agency, and Lucrecia was not such a character.

Lucrecia was an adult with agency and brains. She was a grown ass adult. She was a brilliant scientist. She made decisions with her eyes open, and even sacrificed her unborn child to her work. She is a very interesting character. The fact that she didn't idolize motherhood as the end-all of female existence, and that her obsession with her work was stronger than her desire to be a 'good mother' makes her far more interesting than otherwise. The fact that she regretted it later and wanted him back doesn’t magically make her a good person, or change the choices she made. It demonstrates guilt and remorse, which are part of character development. The bottom line is that she committed atrocities in the name of science, then felt guilty about it later, once she realized how devastating the consequences were to her personally. To say she didn’t know what she was doing or Hojo manipulated or controlled her is to infantilize and disrespect her character. She’s not some sacrificial angel who was a victim of circumstances; she was a willing participant in her own downfall.

Lucrecia is a tragic character, but she's not a romantic lead. Except in Vincent's head. After all was said and done, she had one of those too-late changes of heart that make tragedy so emotionally impactful. She had a human reaction to Vincent's death and felt terribly guilty for her role in all of it, as she should. That doesn't mean she loved him, it means she wasn't a monster. She lost her son, and gradually, Hojo's callous inhumanity and her inability to escape the net she wove with her own hands closed in on her. Did she deserve to never hold her baby son and never see him even once? No. But she caused it, with her own actions. That's tragedy. She was miserable, bereft, and riddled with guilt, so she made a last-ditch effort to make something right...by doing more insane science shit that turned Vincent into a monster. Seeing that she'd only made everything worse, she tried to kill herself, but was unable to, and thus ran off to become a crystal statue in a cave (this is a trope that I dislike, but that's the story, so that's what we've got).

Vincent is a bad judge of the circumstances. Vincent persists in seeing her as a lost love, and someone from whom he was unjustly separated by circumstances. The fact that he is so blinded by his feelings for her that he places her on this pedestal and can't blame her for what she did is excellent characterization, and I love it, but it's because he’s wrong. He loved her. She didn’t love him (I think she was in love with his father, but that's just icing on the tragedy cake, at this point). His lingering attachment, not to the real Lucrecia, but to the idealized version of her he has in his mind, is a very sad reality that adds so much delicious pain to his character. In the end, he is unable to blame her, because he loved his image of her (and Hojo is a way easier target for anger, because he's literally the worst), which speaks far more to his personal bias in the situation than to her actual role in it. She’s not moustache-twirlingly evil like Hojo but she’s not Vincent's star cross'd soul mate tragically torn away by cruel fate. Lucrecia was her own person.

In summation. Their story is not a doomed romance, it's a complicated, messy, ugly tangle of thorns, and one of the best written tragedies in a game that literally bleeds tragedy from every orifice. It's got one-sided love, obsession, mad science, betrayal, jealousy, fetal experimentation, murder, corpse reanimation, and a guy who can't die, and is left to deal with the consequences of everyone else's actions by himself forever. No one is innocent and no one comes out unscathed…strike that. Vincent is innocent and Hojo comes out unscathed. But still. Lucrecia is not a holy mother, she's not a brainless victim, and she's not Vincent's lost love. She's a person he loved, and who didn't reciprocate. Most importantly, she's a person. A whole-ass, complex, morally grey, fully developed person, who made terrible choices, then made even worse choices, and in the end, couldn't escape the fate she wove for herself.

And then wound up encased in crystal so she could be a pretty statue forever cause the game devs just couldn't help themselves I guess.

[susandsnell]

CHOOSE VIOLENCE: 12, 18, 22, 23

thanks so much maggie!!! sorry for the delay. hope you're well!!

choose violence ask game 🔥

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them.

pick any woman lmao. but i'm going to say i'm especially defensive of may welland from the age of innocence and amy march from little women. the former is hated for trying to put a stop to an affair her husband was having/protect herself from being left for another woman when before they ever got married, she told newland straight up he didn't have to marry her if he wasn't sure and his dumb ass was so indecisive he tried to have his cake and eat it too, and nearly ruined both their lives. as for amy, she's unjustly hated for the high crime of 1) being kind of bratty as a child and 2) having the audacity to marry laurie, who she loved, instead of jo who is a lesbian who did not/could not commit to him. Perhaps the view of this has been skewed by the 2019 flick where Florence Pugh is playing an 8 year old and a twentysomething, but it really says something that classic lit fandom will fawn over the most atrocious, insufferable men imaginable (Rochester should've roasted and I'll die on that hill) but if a little girl , a literal child, has an age-appropriate fit of rage once and argues with her sisters (do these people not...have siblings?), culminating in her destroys her sister's things and said sister is everyone's self insert character (except, conveniently, for her rejections/subversions of femininity GEE I WONDER WHY), that's apparently a bridge too far. Even if she's overall a sweet person and outgrows being, again, kind of annoying as a kid.

Also, does Carlotta Giudicelli from Phantom of the Opera count? (Let's go with the musical version here for argument's sake.) She's a bit of a diva, sure, but honestly she earned it and is iconic for it, and she literally just wanted workplace safety and to not be replaced by a significantly younger and skinnier performer based on someone in power's attraction to said performer, which is still a very real issue in the entertainment world! She takes no shit! She was kind of hard on Christine when she wasn't to blame but c'mon, I'd hardly be the most reasonable or understanding if there was a serial killer on the loose bumping off my coworkers who was constantly threatening my life and that of my partner, and had suffered public humiliation twice at the hands of said nutjob. And she then has to find her husband dead as almost an afterthought to the wider plot. TeamCarlotta, she did nothing wrong except be slightly rude under extremely upsetting circumstances. I think she was more disliked in past Phantom fandom than she is now, but c'mon. Feature her more in fanworks, she's a badass!

18. it’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on… I can't answer 'women' twice, but I will just say as a generality deconstructing popular fic tropes. Really pick apart the horrific implications of what a Soulmates/Reincarnation AU looks like when equipoised against one's free will. Or heck, make it funny - There Is Only One Bed and this sonofabitch keeps kicking me. Just keep things fresh!!!

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores Ooh, tough one! Again, the cop-out answer is 'character's canonical flaws and worse moments, or their better points if they're worse characters' lolol, but I really in general get bummed when people shirk worldbuilding and cool concepts in service of the same handful of relationship tropes? Not to be one of those people who bitches about lacking gen while also not contributing gen content - I fully acknowledge myself I'm more into the relationship aspect of things, but whether it's the fullest potential of the Train in Infinity Train, the way the Force is deconstructed as some kind of horrific fate-controlling entity in Knights of the Old Republic 2, so so so so so much vampire lore/rules/mythos in any given vamp media and its fandom, I wish it was just acknowledged and played with more! You could even do so in service of ships/characterization if you're clever!

23. ship you’ve unwillingly come around to Another tough call! I tend to stick to my guns on ships and either end up liking them out of the gate and then that like can turn into total brainrot, or I just kind of dislike them and stay disliking them. If we're talking some real crack, I started as vaguely amused by Barbenheimer (the crossover ship based on the phenomenon) to getting surprisingly behind cracky content made for it. I'm sorry I don't have a more dramatic or satisfactory answer on this front, but as I said, I tend to stick around my early-formed opinions on ships, and most of them I approach from a neutral perspective to begin with and see if it's swayed by solid content, canon or fanon.

[burgundybirds]

ok but the anger and the betrayal on Tina Minoru’s face when she realizes that Leslie “you’ve always been my right hand in pride” Dean was complicit in Amy’s murder is heartbreaking. like if there’s one thing that’s clear about Tina Minoru is that she doesn’t trust many people but when she does she’ll go to hell and back for them (keeping Leslie’s secret about the Hernandezes and all) and Leslie repaid her with lies and the death of Amy. fuck you Leslie Dean

[initiumseries]

I personally love Mona. She made the girls seem more unlikeable, especially with the way they treated her throughout the seasons (yet they easily forgave Ezra for the predatory shit he did). I hate that the writers didn’t have the balls to make the girls imperfect. Say what u want about the books but Sara Shepherd never shied away from making the girls assholes. Instead of the girls being unfortunate bystanders to the wrongdoings of Alison, they were actually unlikeable, so it made sense why so many people in the town hated them.

I also wish they made Alison the villain she always was in the first two seasons. If she isn’t gonna stay dead, make her come back and shake some shit up. Like…Alison straight up gave Hanna an eating disorder! They kept reminding us that Alison could possibly be a sociopath. If she’s gonna be one, lean into it ! (Bc why else would she have the girls go on a wild goose chase for two years?)

Well, the show has a specific perspective. Like I said in another ask, I'm here for complicated characters. I'm totally fine with the girls being imperfect. Maybe they bullied Mona or at the very least did nothing while she was being bullied, and Mona retaliates by being A. I get that completely. But the problem is, the show frames Mona as a blanket villain and then later as a villain in search of redemption, and I don't really agree with that view. Alison terrorized Mona and the girls did nothing about that. The show uses Mona's mental illness to dismiss her valid pain and trauma. Bullying is terrible and traumatic and the girls were friends with her bully. They even talked shit about her. Hannah was Mona's only friend and she basically abandoned her to be Alison's lackey. So I genuinely believe Mona had valid beef with them and that doesn't necessarily make the girls assholes per se, only if they never confront their behaviour or lack there of. Like teenagers are terrible people, that's what happens when you're an unfinished human without enough parental supervision. But the show didn't nuance them in a way where you could explore their feelings WHEN they make those choices. Which is a missed opportunity for sure because it would've added more texture to the show.

Alison as a villain who became a victim was cool with me. Like I said, I enjoyed the concept of each girl having a different relationship with Alison and me as the viewer putting the pieces together over time to realize that she isn't this innocent lil girl who was unjustly murdered. She gave a lot of people in that town reason to want to murder her ass. That's fun! The whodunnit angle is great! I even like the idea of Alison's murder being a fucking group project lol. Where there's no one person individually responsible from the A team, but she HAD to go, and the girls grappling with that.

Honestly I don't even see the point of bringing her back. When they did I was like...well...it IS season *checks notes* 5, how else are they gonna keep people watching? But like I said, it really undercut the emotional development of the girls up until that point. I think if she was gonna come back it should've been sooner. But that meant ending the show sooner so...ya know.

As far as Ezra, like I said, the show's perspective was that Aria/Ezra are some sort of star crossed lovers (nevermind that a man in his mid 20s would have NOTHING to talk to a TEENAGER about but anyway), and they're teenagers. Their protests about Aria dating their teacher was actually, pretty funny and a very teen response. But they aren't the ones who I would expect to be like "omg predator". The ADULTS are, and they DO. When Ezaria (no idea if that's a thing i'm just tired of writing both their names) are discovered, it blows UP. Her parents won't let her leave the house or talk to anyone, they consider going back to iceland. He loses his job, it's a LOT. Aria literally has to go on a mini campaign convincing everyone from her parents to the principal that it's all just a rumour and nothing is actually happening between them so Ezra can get a semblance of his life back. So I think they handled the fall out relatively well, because every adult that finds out about them is disapproving and disgusted, while the kids are like....lol what the fuck. The problem is, the show frames that as an injustice to them as a couple. Because they love each other SO MUCH despite their age difference (like it's not JUST about age it's about the power that age gives him as well as being her fucking teacher). So when Aria is sitting alone in the rain thinking it's all over and Ezra shows up *despite his better judgment swoon*, the music swells because STARCROSSED LOVERS. It's a romanticization of this kind of relationship. Not a true telling. So I'm not shocked the girls were "forgiving" of him because he's not framed as predatory. He's framed as Aria's older boyfriend.

[eoharu]

FIRST OF ALL NA HEEDO CONGRATULATIONS MY GIRL YOU DID IT!!!!!!!!! congratulations for achieving your dreams, both win gold medal again as you promised long time ago and also become yurim's rival!

it's devastating that heedo cannot even celebrate it (i really wanna hug her tight seriously my baby doesnt deserve this after all hardship she went through). it's true that her gold medal were stolen, not by yurim but by media whose only care about rating. the way they ask sensitive questions and corner both of them! even dare to say heedo bribed the referee just because she's just some unknown fencer who suddenly rise and rich enough to do bribe; i seriously wanna smack all of them like they're so fuckin RUDE.

but i just want to say that although many hate yurim and i honestly hate her too since the first time she treat heedo like shit, i don't think she's manipulative. she's just immature and selfish. i do think she genuinely believes she was faster and should've be the winner. i think it's a natural reaction to question the referee if she genuinely feel that way, or cry because she is lost unjustly. i don't think she's being manipulative when she answered the win is a bad call because SHE TRULY BELIEVE SHE WAS FASTER. she doesnt put up a show just to corner heedo. from the way i see it, she's just fighting for a win she thinks she deserve it. heedo said there's no other way the fencer doesnt know who is faster, she strongly believe she was faster, she said she FELT it. keyword: FELT. it's not a matter of fact. it's just her feeling. SAME AS YURIM. she strongly believes, all based on her feeling, she was FASTER and by logic she could use same statement as heedo; fencer know who is faster and in that case she believe she was faster and should've be the winner.

and that's why there's a referee. a third person who objectively saw the match from closest range and professionally judge it, not judging by mere feeling. judge said it's na heedo who is faster and thus become the winner. everyone saying yurim has bad sportsmanship for complaining referee's result, and i agree she's so selfish for that, but honestly if you feel wronged won't you complaint too?? and it's a fucking prestige competition, and people strongly believe she will win. she strongly believe too and her complaining was her last straw to hang on that tiny hope of winning and fulfilling those expectations. it's her coping mechanism. because once again the way i see it, yurim still believe she was faster and the way she act isn't simply to make heedo look bad; rather i would say she unintentionally made heedo look bad. the case would be different if she know heedo is faster but she still insist she's faster, her crying in podium then would definitely a playing victim act and her words in press conference were her being manipulative bish. but we don't know if yurim see it herself that heedo is faster, as of now it seems she still think she was faster. so i think, even i don't excuse her shitty behavior, i understand why she act that way. she's so desperate to win, her poverty and her sickening inferiority complex towards heedo make it much worse. she's still young, so many pressure and expectations weighed her down, she's always told by her coach the only thing that keep her worth is her gold medal. it's a very stressful situation for her. so i understand why she behaved that way.

that being sad, i still madly despise her, lmao. i would pity her if she didn't direct all her frustration to heedo, even being so heartless said she stole it from her. lol, she truly forget the fact that referee is most objective and more trustworthy than her own feeling. i'm so disappointed she even deluded herself heedo win because she bribed the judge. how dare she treat heedo that way, after see it herself how hard heedo work for it! i said before she can complain to referee if she feel unfair, but she should've known by doing so she hurt her opponent; not only her feeling but also her integrity & honor. the best she can do after fulfilling her selfish desire is not hurt her opponent personally. i can't believe she said heedo stole the gold medal from her and she's the VICTIM to heedo, who is just accused of bribe minutes ago. it's very upsetting to see that scene. please stop hurting heedo and behave!!!! learn to accept failures!!! learn to respect your opponent and referee!!!!! your desperation doesnt excuse your behavior to act that way!!! stop being so selfish & egoistic!!! i really hope she would think over it carefully next time she's more composed that referee's judgement is more trustworthy than her own feeling and later properly apologize & congratulations na heedo sincerely.

but still i think the main culprit is media. everyone should've been cheering because korea just won gold medal. but yeah our people loves drama more than anything, and media painted the match like a sob story where heedo the spoiled privileged kid stole the gold medal from poor star yurim; totally dismissed both their effort & hard work from the narrative. if only the journalist ask how she practice or her strategy to win instead of ask is she personally know the referee and possible bribery, things would've not gotten so bad. i almost punch my screen once her mom said it by her own mouth that na heedo stole the medal from yurim. it's so heartbreaking to see no one root for heedo even before the match, not even one she shared blood with, and now whole nation despise her; partially thanks to her mom contribution. the moment heedo said should she give up the medal just because everyone want to see yurim win instead of her, my heart shattered. the way her coach never care for her and even think she's just a hindrance to yurim, the way the coach cheered for yurim although he said he rooted for none, the way yurim's uniform is the blue-red one blatantly showing she's the korea's representative and whole nation side by her... heedo literally only has three people rooting for her and one is dead. how sad is that, knowing only three people want her win, she still strive so hard to win only to say she bribe the referee. IM. SO. MAD.

it's so sad to even see she doubt yijin and think he come as reporter to dig more story from her. moment that should've been a triumph for her become moment where she run away all by herself, lost and not knowing what to do or where to go and even doubt people closest to her. the scene where granpas console her and she's helplessly crying... I'm so thankful she has that moment when she see it herself not everyone curse her and there are also other people who root for her, even put faith on korea fencing's bright future on heedo's hand.

i truly want heedo & yurim work together to make that true. for that to happen yurim needs to work on her inferiority complex and learn she has many things heedo doesnt. i hope she feel grateful for all supports she has and heedo doesnt. i hope she stop see heedo only as rich prodigy kid who has it easy and she's the only one who suffer. i truly hope, soon, she will see heedo as rival and respected her. i hope she see how heedo isn't there to ruin her world and take away her achievement & spotlight, but to make her strive harder and enjoy fencing more despite her burden. and i hope to see their match again later, when they play fair & square, sincerely congratulate each other with smile no matter who wins. i hope their relationship evolve as sweet as they were in cyber world!