#sentitheory

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Adrien really is in a no win situation. Regardless of who wins.

Like let’s say Gabriel wins. He gets his wish. Emilie’s back. Nathalie and everyone isn’t dying. But the world is altered and he probably gets mind wiped or something going back to his previous life of being controlled. Which really means he stuck as the “perfect” son and doesn’t get an ounce of true happiness. I don’t think his mother will stop the engagement to Kagami. So no free will stuck in a world of his fathers making. Pretty f***ed up.

Okay now let’s say ladybug and chat noir wins. Welp, Gabriel is dying and or going to prison. Nathalie’s still sick and His mom stays dead. Oh and he will probably find out he’s a sentimonster. Which all of those at once is a triple kick in the dick. That would also make Adrien suspect number one if anything s***y happened in Paris. Probably be sued by pissed of parisians. And if word got out that he was a sentimonster? Forget it, they’d try to burn him at the stake. Not ideal and Not even covering the mental crisis and imposter syndrome he’d be dealing with. This isn’t ideal but he does have his friends and his aunt. He might want to leave Paris for a while tho.

Then I guess the third option is where maybe Gabriel realizes he done goofed up, and he ends ups remorseful. He and ladybug come up with some sort of plan to use the wish to fix things making some weird hybrid result. He still dies but Emilie’s alive but he gets his “redemption through death”. Which would at least leave Adrien with a parent but also probably results in Adrien being kept in the dark about everything because he wouldn’t be okay with any of that. But that sounds worse than the first two because Adrien gets left in the dark and sort of glosses over a LOT of things including him being in a dynamic where once again people he loves are hiding sh*t from him. Oh and it basically excuses Gabriel’s abuse, so that’s also a no. Oh and since Adrien probably wouldn’t know, it means someone else is keeping his amok which just means well s***, someone is still controlling him.

The fourth option is that Adrien is involved and uses himself to save his parents and Paris. Wishing for a world where everyone he loves could be happy. This one would piss off EVERYONE (except the Adrien haters but they don’t matter) but establish Adrien as being the most human in the series. Also it ends the ship with him dead and leaves Marinette feeling awful, unless her memories get wiped.

Quite frankly their might be more scenarios, but each one seems to end s***y for Adrien. Only the second one giving Adrien some sort of autonomy

[cardiac-agreste]

Assuming we're meant to take the season finale pretty literally, how have we not talked about how much faith Gabriel put in a 14-year-old girl to take care of his son? Like that's either Insanity or an impressive level of respect he has for Ladybug's love for his son.

[miraculousfanworks]

Fanfiction Prompt

Felix is actually rather reasonable in his plans. He had briefly debated a rather convoluted plan involving disguising himself as Adrien a few times so that he could infiltrate his uncle's home and steal the Peacock. But, in the end, he decided that there was a potentially easier method, albeit one that was a little more time consuming: he'd talk to the heroes of Paris about it. They had Miraculous of their own, so surely they'd be useful allies in his endeavours. The heroes of Paris are a little skeptical, but a Lucky Charm that was made into an "Sentimonster Detector" proved that Felix was telling the truth about his story, so they can begin planning what to do with his information. Just as soon as they all recover from the shock of the detector going off when it was briefly pointed at Chat Noir.

Prompt by BlueStarOfTheSouth

[superiorgoobus]

Inspired by that one post by @gale-gentlepenguin

[mymiraclebox]

Can Vitaa and Tikki make our three sentimonsters childs (Adrien, Kagami and Felix) real humans????

Like, Tikki make them a real body with the same appearance and Vitaa make a soul using the amok

In this AU they aren't any sentibeing children, since the Peacock Miraculouses works differently in my headcanons, but in terms of canon I definitely think kwamis could help them.

They already are real humans, just created with magic, the show's creator has confirmed that-- so what's needed is a means to free them from their amok. Most importantly: to free them from mind control, to free them from being destroyed if the amok is destroyed, and to free them from the Peacock being able to destroy them.

With my OCs, Vitaa could definitely maintain their life force while the amok is being destroyed, so perhaps that'd free them from the bond. Koree could make it so the connection between them and the amok flat out never existed, so perhaps in tandem with Vitaa they could free them from the amok while keeping them alive.

I think they can be freed with the canon kwamis though. It's already canon that Cataclysm can destroy the link between amok and senti (though the Peacock can still dismiss them); but who says this can't be expanded upon? We've seen LB unlock new powers of Creation, so why not have the Black Cat be able to modify his Destruction so it only destroys the sentis' ability to be connected to the amok and the Peacock? (Bonus points Adrien gets to free himself!)

Also I bet you Liiri could do something as well. Who better to break mind control than the kwami of Freedom?

[sentirights]

For real this makes me wonder how much Amélie knows about all of this ?? Does she know about Adrien being senti ?

I feel like there's no way she wouldn't know about Félix being one for obvious reasons but it really seems she sees the twin rings as family heirlooms and nothing else.

So I have 3 theories:

- Amélie knows about Adrien but she thinks his amok is somewhere else (maybe she saw Adrien's chat noir miraculous and was like 'yep his amok, why wouldn't he have it on him after all ?')

- Amélie doesn't know about Adrien and somehow thinks Félix is the only sentichild

- Amélie knows the twin rings are Adrien's amok but she doesn't care, she either thinks Félix will keep them safe and not use them or she's like "well these rings have more sentimental value to me, I deserve to have them in my side of the family despite them having turned into amoks"

I have absolutely no idea what Amelie does and doesn't know, but if she knows that ring is part of Adrien's amok, why is she letting Felix keep it, instead of giving it to Adrien himself or to Gabriel?

[starfall-spirit]

I'm hearing the whispers and I just want to say I will be so fucking pissed if Sentiadrien is canon.

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but the consequences of Sentiadrien being canon would fuck everything over.

[noblechaton]

happy see Adrien's film career take off like this

[miraculosus]

When I say I can’t accept sentiadrien or even that I deny it, that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s canon it means I think it was a bad move. And it makes me not want to watch the show

[lulubui]

So, while rereading the Bubbler, I noticed @ozawa-torio mention this

Nino pulled out the child law to confiscate Adrien's freedom.

In which gives me an idea, that Emilie still used the peacock to create a "fake" Adrien (let's call him senti-Adri), the real Adrien is a normal human being, but the senti-Adri replaced Adrien spotted as going out to do a health check-up, doing ID or something that needed to leave the house so that police and FBI don't notice about the Agreste's child isolation (that's mean real Adrien being locked up at home)

The senti-Adri dressed up similar to Adrien and Felix, a mixture of them so Adrien thought that it was Felix the whole time. Graham doesn't know about this. But when Felix did the research and found out the dark secret, he wanted to seek revenge on Gabriel (not knowing Emilie was the culprit), his goal was to use the peacock and create a fake Gabriel, leaking out the truth to media.

When overused the Peacock's miraculous to restrained Senti-Adri existence, Emilie died and all of that happened.

On the other hand, Tomoe's goal is creating a living god, a powerful yet perfect entity to help her shape Kagami into a flawless daughter, that's the reason why she co-operated with Gabriel, who also wanted to revive his death wife and make something that could protect both of them (Emilie and Adrien).

So, by what you are meaning that there won't be any actual senti-kid in the au, then what causes the death of Emilie with the whole main villain plot point?

Of course, this could be seen in Adrien's rebellion against Gabriel and all, what about Tomoe's goal and Felix's targeted ?

Just gonna give Emilie another reason to over use the Peacock Miraculous' power. Even before her disappearance, Adrien STILL wasn't going to school. So I think I can figure something out.

Tomoe will most likely have a different goal and Félix... ooof!

I've only posted about three seasons of the Scarabée and Kitty Claws AU. So I'm opened to more ideas.

If you haven't noticed, I really never cared much for the Senti-Teen theories (which is why I only posted one about Chloé). So it's mostly not gonna be in this AU.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

"Just because you're unhappy doesn't mean I have to be too." -Adrien to Gabriel, most certainly

The words echoed in the main hall of the Agreste mansion.

The quiet mansion fell even more silent. Adrien felt shocked by his own statement. Did he really say that to his father?

“Adrien.” His father spoke up, his tone clearly trying to push past his shock and reel back control. “I am your father…”

“Then maybe start acting like one!” Adrien snapped.

Gabriel felt his hand shake behind his back.

“What has gotten into you?”

Adrien thought about it for a moment. This was it, it was his chance to tell his father how he felt. For some reason he never had the chance to let him know, he always built up confidence only for it to shrink right after his father spoke. But right now, he was not going to back down.

“Why can you never let me be happy!? Everything I want to do or try is always turned down. It’s only when you have some sort of alternative or convenience that I ever get a modicum of joy. I thought things were different, I thought you were finally changing… I thought maybe you were ready to try and be my dad again.”

Gabriel watched his son’s expression shift. He could see the frustration in his son’s eyes.

“Why can’t you let me be with Marinette?” The question had tears welling in Adrien’s eyes.

Gabriel felt himself pause for a moment. But it was at that moment he realized that this was something he could use.

Gabriel’s expression shifted to sorrow. He covered his face and turned away, as if to weep.

“I have failed you my son! I’m sorry.”

Adrien’s drive felt halted by the sight of his father supposedly crying.

“Father?”

“I am dying Adrien.”

The statement shook Adrien.

“What?”

Gabriel removed his glove to reveal the blackened skin.

“I’m on borrowed time. Everything I had been doing was to prepare you for… for the inevitable.”

“Papa please tell me you are joking.”

“I wish I was but there is nothing I can do. Soon, I and Nathalie will depart from this world.”

“Nathalie? She’s sick too.”

“Yes Adrien… it’s the same disease that took your mother. There is no cure.”

“That can’t be true! There has to be something I can do!” Adrien felt his heart sink, he felt the horror of the situation hit him like a truck.

“I’ve been searching for a cure… and it’s impossible, unless…”

“Unless what?!”

Gabriel smiled darkly for a moment, before shifting to his sorrowful expression and turning to his son.

“Do you remember that book I had in the safe?”

Adrien paused for a moment, remembering that misadventure.

“In it there is a way… two magical items needed to grant a wish.”

Adrien realized what his father was saying.

“The miraculous…”

“Yes… the miraculous are the only way to save me… save us.”

Adrien took a step back.

“But… the miraculous are dangerous… monarch is after them! He wants to use the power to wish…”

“Wish for his family to return. That’s all he ever wanted.”

The final pin dropped. Adrien understood the situation. All the cards were on the table, Gabriel’s last emotional punch.

“You’re monarch….” Adrien stumbled backwards. Falling on the ground.

“Adrien…. Please. Help me end all of this. Help me make us a family again. That wish will fix everything.”

Adrien felt his heart rip in two as he saw his father’s pleading…

He started to try and get up… to run away. He needed to get out of there!

“As your father… I ask you to stay.”

Adrien felt his muscles freeze…. He couldn’t move. Why was he unable to move!?

“Help me get Ladybug and chat noir’s miraculous… and once it’s finally over we can all be happy.”

Adrien noticed his father touching the ring. This wasn’t his father begging him… it was an order. He felt his body being compelled to obey.

“Plagg… help…” he whispered as he felt his will being sapped.

“Tell me you will hel….” Gabriel’s expression stopped as he saw a kwami fly out of his son’s jacket.

“Cataclysm!”

Plagg touched Gabriel’s forehead before he could even respond.

“No!”

His face started to turn black much like his arm… but this spread rapidly and instantly Gabriel dropped to the floor and turned to ash leaving his clothes and rings…

Adrien was gasping for air… his father was controlling him, his father was monarch, he was a sentimonster, and … his father was gone.

[cardiac-agreste]

Adrien's Guilt

A brief thought. It's a trope (and maybe real but I've—mercifully—never been exposed to it) for a child whose mother who died in childbirth to feel like they killed their mother (and sometimes the dad doesn't let them forget it).

I think something to explore in fanfic is Adrien processing that same guilt, as it's analogous.

I am reading @anna-scribbles new fic thirteen and nothing I've seen touches on this (so it's no spoilers!), but it's a meditative Adrien fic, and its spirit moved me to this idea.

[nedjsmlfavs]

In which Ladybug announces that she’s pregnant via her long term boyfriend and Chat Noir is a supportive partner. After all, he can hardly be upset when he’s been dating his Princess for years!

A different take on the show’s tagline (“The Power of Love Always so Strong”) written for Valentine’s day 2023.

Words: 28,305 Rating: T Status: Complete

Happy Valentine's Day! I hope you enjoy it! Lots of fluff awaits you. Unless you're Gabriel. If you're Gabriel, then you get to suffer. Also, new rule, every time I don't like what canon does with Nino, I'm gonna write a fic where he's the best friend ever!!!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I also saw someone say Adrien getting turned into a pigeon in the same Mr. Pigeon 72 episode was also foreshadowing for the sentitheory, what do you think?

I'm gonna be honest, I sat here staring at this ask for a solid minute trying to make sense of the words on my screen because this is one of the most nonsense things I've ever read. Media literacy can't actually be this bad, right?

No, Adrien being turned into a pigeon is not foreshadowing unless you think him being turned into a Reflecta clone and a Style Queen golden statue also mean something, which I highly doubt is the case. Turning people into things is just a standard akuma power and Adrien gets to be one of the victims from time to time in order to make an episode's plot work the same way he occasionally gets mind controlled. The fact that one of the things he got turned into was a bird doesn't foreshadow anything because that's not how foreshadowing works. Foreshadowing doesn't mean "I can find a way to loosely connect these two things!"

[image: the "I've connected two dots, you didn't connect shit" meme]

For the pigeon transformation to have meaning, it would - at the very least - need to be unique to Adrien in some way, but it's not. He's one of many identical pigeons and I'm guessing that this person wasn't claiming that they're all sentimonsters, right? If not, then how is it foreshadowing? What makes this transformation different on a rewatch now that we know Adrien's status? Because that's how foreshadowing works. It should play different once you know what it was setting up.

If you want an actual example of akuma-based foreshadowing, look at Wishmaker, which showed us Adrien's childhood dream vs everyone else's. The fact that Adrien has no hopes or dreams of his own while all of the real humans do is pretty clearly meant to make you go, "Huh, that's odd." Then, on a rewatch, you go, "Oh, this is because he's not a human!"

That's the way that foreshadowing is supposed to work. It's subtle or blatant highlighting of an oddity that will come to have meaning later on. You may be able to guess the meaning before the reveal, but it should play into the reveal in some way.

Another example of foreshadowing is how, in the later half of season four, the camera starts focusing on the Agreste's wedding rings every time Gabriel or Nathalie gives a command that Adrien then obeys. It's meant to make you go, "Huh, that's odd."

A weird*, but ultimately solid example of subtle foreshadowing is the butterfly logo on Adrien's shoes, hinting at his father's villain status. We know that Adrien probably only wears his father's brand and butterflies are a big deal in the show right from the start, so why would you give Adrien a butterfly on his outfit if that doesn't mean something about his father? You wouldn't, so it's obvious that this is a clue that Gabriel is Hawkmoth or at least involved with Hawkmoth. Let's compare that to the pigeon stuff to really highlight foreshadowing vs grasping at straws.

"Gabriel put subtle nods to his villainy in his clothing line because he's an egomaniac" is a really logical thing to assume. Similarly, "Everything on Adrien's body was put there with purpose by the animators because it had to be custom designed for him, so that butterfly is not an accident," is solid logic. There is no reason for that butterfly to be there if it doesn't mean something.

"Emilie and Gabriel gave their magical designer baby a pigeon allergy to give viewers a subtle hint that he's a magical designer baby made from a peacock feather," sounds like the ramblings of a mad person. Do you also think that Adrien's inability to play soccer is going to come back to mean something outside of Penalteam? Or that him bragging about being good at physics in Evillustrator means that he's ultimately going to be a physicist*? You better or else you're cherry picking because the pigeon allergy is not given any more importance than those other little facts. Facts that were clearly only dropped for the sake of a joke.

This is the problem with trying to claim that a random joke from a random episode must have deeper meaning. It certainly can, that's how subtle foreshadowing works, but for a thing to be foreshadowing, it has to create a clear association between A and B. It also needs to be logical. The pigeon stuff is neither clear nor logical.

Pigeon-related things that would have actually counted as foreshadowing in Mr. Pigeon 72 if they had been included:

Adrien!pigeon not responding to Mr. Pigeon's commands because Mr. Pigeon doesn't have Adrien's amok and that's the only way to control a sentimonster no matter their form (this would go against established lore since Adrien has been able to be mind controlled in the past, but I'm just spit-balling ideas here, okay? Work with me people! Miracular and the Paris special let him get cataclysmed without breaking like a normal senti, so retconing the rules for the sake of the plot is par for the course in my book)

Mr. Pigeon being unable to have a sentimonster because they're allergic to feathers combined with Adrien!Pigeon constantly sneezing, making him standout and be useless

Kagami being established to also have feather allergies since she's also at the pool in this episode, making it really freaking easy to establish this since Marinette is listing off random ass things that Kagami and Adrien have in common

If it doesn't result in an "oh!" or "I knew it" moment later on, then it ain't foreshadowing. But it could be something else.

*Let's circle back to the physics thing briefly because you might have thought, "Wait, that could be foreshadowing if he goes into physics, couldn't it?" And kind of! You're thinking of foreshadowing's parent technique, setup and payoff (or, at least, I've never seen it called something else.) The difference between general S&P and foreshadowing is that foreshadowing should stand out as odd like Adrien's shoes or the rings. It's something that's there to make you go, "Huh." Meanwhile, many of techniques used for setup and payoff don't require a "huh" feeling.

Allow me to explain!

Adrien being good at physics isn't weird, it's just a fun fact about him and it's normal to develop your characters as a story goes on just to flesh them out and make them feel more real. Every little thing you learn doesn't have to mean something about their ultimate fate. But sometimes the things you learn do lead to something bigger. That's just crafting a good, logical story. Knowing Adrien enjoyed physics class at 14 means nothing for his eventual career path, but if he does go into physics, it's now no longer out of the blue.

But it's also not foreshadowed. It's just setup.

An actual example of this type of thing is Marinette's diary. Her diary has been used as a nice little character quirk throughout the show. Then we get to the Paris special and - suddenly - the diary actually matters to the plot.

This isn't foreshadowing. The diary was never presented in a way that would make you think, "Huh, that's coming back later" or "Hmmm, that's odd." But it's still a satisfying moment to see her diary lead to something since it's been around for so long.

If we were never told that Marinette kept a diary and we only ever saw her hiding this pink book, then that would have been foreshadowing as we'd be thinking, "Huh, that's odd." Then we'd get to the Paris special and go, "Oh! That's what the book was!"

In other words, foreshadowing requires a reveal. I'll also note that there's no hard rules for this stuff. I tried to pick good examples that were clearly foreshadowing and clearly not, but there's grey area here, so it's okay if you disagree about some of these being foreshadowing. (Except for if you disagree on the pigeon stuff. I will fight you about the pigeons!)

Another example of setup and payoff is Gabriel getting cataclysmed and then slowly dying throughout the season. His death isn't foreshadowed, it's just a thing that's happening. On the other hand, Nathalie dying via the peacock is used for foreshadowing because it leads to Adrien comparing Nathalie's illness to Emilie's, which is the setup for the reveal that Emilie used the peacock. Nathalie's illness is also just a non-foreshadowed setup for Emilie's reveal so that the peacock hurting people doesn't come out of nowhere, which is why setups are important. You can skip all foreshadowing and only use setups and still tell a good story.

The pigeon stuff was never foreshadowing, but if any of it had been revealed to mean something by the show, then it could be argued to be a situation where it was introduced as a setup for a later payoff. But the pigeon thing has f-all to do with sentimonsters, so once again, it's nonsense and people need to let it die! The pigeon thing has been used for its intended purpose: gags. That's why it came back in Mr. Pigeon 72! Mr. Pigeon 1 didn't foreshadow that, it just setup a gag that they decided to revisit because this is a comedy and little kids probably find Adrien sneezing and messing things up funny.

*One final note: the reason I called Adrien's shoes "weird" is because the butterfly logo was great subtle foreshadowing back when people thought that the butterfly was the logo for Gabriel's company. Now that the logo is a massive G, the butterfly raises questions about Gabriel's design choices since we never see it anywhere else. I've often wondered if this was originally meant to be Gabriel's logo, but they scrapped the idea for some reason. Either way, it's still foreshadowing, it's just slightly less good now that we have to ask, "Why did Gabriel put butterflies on these sneakers for teen boys and no where else?"

[princess-of-the-corner]

honestly with the years old fanon sentitheory becoming canon and the paris special seemly capitalizing off the success of spiderverse, would not be surprised if it was ripped, maybe not from Omniverse specifically but other media that shows an explosive fade to white disappearance

I mean both are a 'reset the universe' explosion too

[coffeebanana]

okay i know i'm inviting things i don't want to see by asking this question but. genuinely. people who object to the sentitheory simply on the basis of "he's not human" ...why? what makes someone human enough to you?

(if there's another reason you dislike the theory, that's chill. this post isn't about that)