#sburb theory

[homestucktheory612]

HOMESTUCK THEORY!

There are meteors heading towards the homestuck of John egg!

Some theorists believe these big rocks are created through the game "SIMS"

A game where you torture real people

[joysmileyay]

lines from homestuck that always bothered me

this is doc talking about lord english and himself "He's more deadly. But the danger he poses is sanctioned by paradox space. It is a known quantity. His very existence in a universe will mean it will inevitably be torn apart. But there are rules to his entry, and his grim procession through paradox space is rather orderly. The present equilibrium has accounted for him, and will continue to." "You do. But also know this. Refusing to venture out to destroy the sun in no way spares anyone from my master regardless. It is certainly true that destroying it will end my life. And it is certainly true that The Tumor you will deliver to its location has enough power to destroy it completely. But it is not the only way to kill me. It is simply a way I have suggested to you, which doubles as a way to disarm Jack, should you choose to go through with it. Instances of myself have spawned in countless universes, and my objective is always the same. I have never once failed to complete this objective, and I never will. There is nothing noble about taking a course of action you believe would prevent his arrival, because that is impossible. He will come. In fact, he is already here." most relevant text bolded. ive reconciled a lot of things i didnt like/understand about homestuck over the years but these lines still bother me. and dont seem to make much sense to me, or get elaborated on. because everything about caliborn and lord english is so specific to these sessions that we see in homestuck, it doesnt really make sense for there to be a countless number of caliborns out there, when all of caliborns characteristics and traits are the result of the setting we see him placed in and the specific characters he has to interact with, ie the characters from the sessions we see in homestuck. same for, dirk/AR, equius, gamzee, and lil cal since thats what lord english is made up of and i guess he could be made up of other people but then what "is" lord english? the result of a one player lord of time session? always caliborn? idk and i dont really have any personal theories about these lines other than doc scratch being an unreliable narrator, but this is unreliable narration in a way that is not true to how doc scratch operates in my opinion, because it just doesnt seem to make sense with what we know about the story at least as i understand it.

[doyouremem8erme]

tagged by @fullmusicbardsquared <>!! ... pick ur 4 fave characters and have ur followers choose which one best fits ur Vibes

@razzware @erisolkat @the-lark-ascending69 <- if any of yall wish to hop on but dont feel pressured

[damarassanctuary]

i think the beforean sgrub logo should be yellow as opposed to alternia's blue/purple just as sburb alpha is red to beta's green

i have seen people depicting beforan Sgrub logo as yellow before, or even orange actually, so i see both options also as valid since there's no official confirmation. i personally like to headcanon it as blue and the reason behind it is related to the end of act curtains ^u^

what i mean by this is i tried finding a consistent pattern for my use of purple for the curtains in [S] Catharsis

basically followed the same rule the curtains and logos of the beta and alpha kids went by: the beta kids' Sburb logo was green while their curtains were red, while the alpha kids' logo was red and their curtains green

now i just applied that logic to the trolls to deduce the colors of their logo and curtains, since we know A5A1 has blue curtains and this act, the only one focused entirely on the trolls' session, was the only one to have them we know those are meant for the beta trolls, so if the pattern is consistent that should mean the alpha trolls' Sgrub logo was probably blue and their curtains purple

now there's 1 thing that could completely throw the theory out of the window, that being this panel:

yet honestly i feel like that panel in particular is just a HUGE oversight since it doesn't match at all with how the door was depicted post-Collide for a few things:

-the house logo is flipped horizontally in the victory plataform in A7 before the door spawned. it's the alpha kids color but with the beta kids shape of the logo. here it's not flipped

-the door is just... there. in the alpha kids session the house turned white before the door spawned it didn't remain the color of the alpha logo

-and 3 the color isn't even consistent since their logo was purple

Hussie probably decided to retcon how the victory plataform and the door works for the ending, yet that makes this panel kinda useless for theorizing, so yee

so tl;dr

it could be yellow or orange, i just strongly believe it to be blue yet since there's no canon evidence of an actual color it's really up to interpretation ^u^

(also DDotA depicts the victory door green iirc which is the color from the other side of the Scratch so since i often take that as the ending that could retroactively also fix how messed up the house in that panel is)

[homestuckexamination]

hi! do you know if it's actually impossible for a sburb session other than the future dead session to happen on earth c? i've seen people say that it can't happen, but i can't remember anything directly stating that. i know there's really no implications that it WILL happen, but are there any reasons that it can't?

i always think of doc scratch's statement that "every planet destined for intelligent life has [a first guardian] meant to protect it, and facilitate the planet's ultimate purpose". and it's always made more sense to me for there to be multiple sessions per universe, since that would increase the chances of a successful one, like how actual organic reproduction works. i know caliborn is an anomaly, but if he can have a session on a planet that technically already had one, is there really a limit on that?

(as a side note, if there's not, that kind of opens up some interesting possibilities. what if a planet's society was able to survive past the reckoning, through more advanced technology? could the planet be seeded for a second round of sburb later?)

Every Universe has an undefined, but theoretically infinite, number of SBURB Sessions that can spawn from them, and every planet can, in fact, run multiple SBURB Sessions.

By the time Caliborn's Dead Session happens, the entirety of the world is a desert wasteland and the Sun is getting close to the end of its natural lifespan. We don't know what happened to the planet, or the Gods that inhabited it, but there's nothing really saying a Session couldn't happen in the potential millions of years between those two points.

Note that the intended path for a SBURB Session's planet, is for the planet's society to be 'wiped out' basically, and Carapacians to prepare the world for a second round of SBURB. Whether any of the original inhabitants survive or not, they'd probably still be outnumbered eventually by the newcoming Carapacians and their society.

[sburbian-sage]

Question: If some bored troll (in the traditional sense, not the aliens) is going to make up a class or aspect... why the fresh flipping fuck do they not follow the one syllable rule?

Is the idea that like, if you actually buy it, then they think they've made you look dumb because they left this obvious hole in their proposition, and that's funnier? Like, the dumber the thing they make you believe, the more they "win"?

That Beryllium guy. I coulda bought it! I've been fascinated by all the Quartz stuff on this blog, I'm an easy mark, a naïve little lamb! If he'd just called it Steel or Wire or War or whatever! The keywords of Industry, War, Factories, Logic, and Mass production, all sound neat! (Well, maybe not logic, that's just a retread of Mind, right? But otherwise.) It's like, 90% of the way to making sense, and then dives off a cliff!

It makes me want to like... write a guide to coming up with fake classpects or something. But that would obviously only be used for evil, so...

Like I said, it could be that they stumbled into a modded session and were unaware of this fact. They're uncommon enough that you forget about them, and it's not like most people upon seeing something in-game that by all rights should not be in the game, will think "oh yeah someone genetically modified their frog to put this in here deliberately for some reason". Alternatively, they were panicking over being turned into a circuit board and were not thinking clearly.

And it could still be worthwhile to write that guide. Maybe if you make it more about the theory of why Titles are constructed the way they are, the "art and science" of eclectic and meaningfully connected elements which you could arrange to create iconic and plausible simulacrums. I for one have no clue as to why the seemingly arbitrary one-syllable rule is in place, and I'm sure that might be an entire discussion I'm standing on top of, unaware.

[botanicalcanopus]

what do you suppose the entry items of the alternian trolls were

i only have one solid concept and it's a biological heart for karkat to spill blood from

I can elaborate on these if asked, but as a quick post: Aradia: Either a fossil or a flower/plant Tavros: Either a Fiduspawn capsule or a bird cage Sollux: Either a bee hive or a skull Karkat: A heart as you suggested or chains Nepeta: Either a paint can or a cat toy Kanaya: Either a mirror or a sewing machine Terezi: Either a gavel or a Scalemate Vriska: Either an 8 ball or a FLARP manual Equius: Either a miniature horse figure or something fragile/empty (vase) Gamzee: Either a Faygo bottle or a juggling pin Eridan: Either a target or a wizard statue Feferi: Either a fish bowl or a crown

[zenosanalytic]

what do you think about Space players who somehow didn't get a Land with Frogs in the title? is there any way that might make sense or work or would Frogs be always necessary

HMMMM. Well, the Universes are frogs, and the DNA to make the Universe-Frogs comes from the frogs on the Space Player's Land...

There's nothing in HS canon that says ALL universes are frogs. Maybe some universes are other animals? Like: who's to say the Universe-Frogs don't live within a Universe-Ecosystem????

[k3agn]

I might end up making comparative homestuck theory posts again to exercise these fucking flare ups now that the comic exists anew. They’re mostly classpect related which is hard because I know the new writers have the answers and I want em bad.

So instead until I can close that dam off again expect some posts using some of the following to explain homestuck:

- Loki

- SAO (Alicization)

- Destiny 1&2

- Shakespeare

- Mythology

- Philosophy

- Probably a lot more

[r0semultiverse]

Calling it now, we’re gonna have a parody of [S] Game Over but with Jane and her Crocker death laser as the batterwitch with her laser beams.

[derseprinceoftbd]

Homestuck Theory:

We know that SBURB is very Time-Space centric; it's confirmed that if you lack a Space Player, you can go fuck yourself, and Hussie has said that if you're missing one of the two, it *will* override Classpecting logic and convert someone. But oddly, there doesn't seem to technically be a *need* for a Time Player, disregarding the Scratch.

That's where my theory comes in: I think Hephestus has the duty of judging the Alpha Timeline, and if you're fully succeeding, but not in the Alpha Timeline, or your success would screw with it, he has the power to shut off the Forge.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/homestuck/s/2gtfqTDzCR. More dubious than I had initially remembered.

[homestuckreplay]

@tenaciouschronicler i definitely think sburb is alive in some form but thinking about this more, it could also be too much data to be stored in a captcha code? a pumpkin (or, for example, jaspers' corpse) has so much complexity & dna which is more the domain of echoing then alchemy. and sburb also has LOADS of complexity because it's programmed for so many possible outcomes based on who plays, what they prototype with, etc. and all that can't be contained in a captcha code which is better at simple molecular structures/static items than anything that has potential for growth and change. maybe????

[sburbian-mechanics]

{ohhh, it’s one of you explainer guys, heyyy}

{I’ve gotta “hypotheti{al” for ya}

{say in a timeline, someone was prototyped into a sprite, but in a doomed timeline they played the game {reating an unused god bed, if the prototyped version of themselves {ould get to the god bed, {ould they use it to a{hieve god-hood or no?}

Oh!! I love hypotheticals!! Now, there are several layers to this question that are interesting- many of which intersect with one of the many schools of thought regarding Post-SBURBian theories of Time. Given there is a whole aspect revolving around it, it's no wonder that an entire discipline of researchers dedicate their lives to studying time loops and retro-chronology. But one of the best parts about it are the things still unconfirmed, and the many interesting theories on things like Doomed Timelines. So let’s talk some Time Theory, shall we?

First of all, if we are talking sprites, particularly sprites made of components from Doomed Timelines, you are going to intersect with the Meta-Chronological Theory and the mobiusBondage argument. Both have solid backing behind them- but physical travel to doomed timelines is really difficult, and thus these theories are hard to confirm.

Meta-Chronological Theory proposes that our perception of time is subservient to a “Meta-Timeline”, which argues that you can find chronology in simultaneous events based on their position in a “Meta-Timeline”. Basically, for a time loop to happen, this theory states that the events happen first, and then the choice to travel is made, which then retroactively causes the events. Retro is important here- the events happened first, the “justification” only happened after. Under this theory, the doomed timelines would happen “first” before they go back and get sprites, thus causing the timeline to “unhappen” which is necessary as a Doomed Timeline by definition is unsustainable and unstable due to causing a paradox. In this case, you are unable to travel back to the Doomed Timelines bed, as by the sprite being there, means the Doomed Timelines has already unexisted on the Meta Timeline.

However, the mobiusBondage argument states that if Skaia is omniscient, which by all metrics it is, then that means it has already experienced all moments of time. Thus, from Skaia, and thus the game's view, all moments in time have happened and are happening at the same time, thus leading to simultaneous circumstances across massive lengths of time, (which has been tested for and confirmed as true!) In this school of thought, you could travel to a Doomed Timeline and Ascend there, if we had the technology to get there and back, as it both exists and has already unhappened at the same point in time. You just need to travel to the point where it exists.

(As for if Sprites can Ascend on the corresponding Quest Bed, the answer is yes- it has happened many times, as they still count as a version of a Player's Self. It's the same reason Guardians who travel to the Scratched version of their original session can Ascend on their Player Self's bed!)

Of course, as of this point in subjective time, there is no way to travel to a Doomed Timeline safely. They are inherently unstable and marked for deletion by Arch Angles, and none who have seen them have not been unmade. Still, Hypotheticals are fun!! And I do have a soft spot for Time Theory. Nothing has really been proven in Outer-Loop Chronology, but the discoveries in other fields have been really fascinating! The only reason we even know about Simultaneous Circumstances are due to some absolute geniuses like quadriUnido or pinstripeStreaming. If you ever have the time it's a fun rabbit hole to fall into! GG out!

----------<I>----------

I wonder if I would be into Time Theory if it really was just a rabbit hole I fell into...*sigh. Someone had to make sure Kyah's loops were stable.

[land-of-troves-and-rabbit-holes]

Types of Null Sessions (LOTARH Edition)

"Null session" is an umbrella term for the many types of Sburb session doomed to loss. There are a couple canonical ones, and a few others I've discovered.

In a void session, none of the kernelsprites were prototyped before the players entered. As a result, Prospit and Derse are both underdeveloped, and their battlefield will never reach its final form, so the plot of the Game is permanently stalled. There are no consorts on the players' planets, and possibly no living beings besides the players.

Dead sessions have only one player, and the victory conditions for the Game have been altered to challenge that player specifically. They are almost unrecognizable from normal sessions.

Locked sessions have met their victory conditions... technically. The players ignored the intent of the game, brute-forced their way through, and only won in name. Thus, the Game denies them the ability to rule the universe they created.

Seed sessions never had a space player, though they have a time player. There's no way for the players to meet the Game's victory conditions, but the time player can start over from Scratch. Seed sessions have one aesthetic in common: they're spread out over a long, long span of time. The players can work through their personal quests and the Prospit-Derse war for years, even decades before they run out of time. The planets also have rich, interwoven histories, and may be tomb worlds or otherwise doomed on arrival.

Scraped sessions never had a time player, though they have a space player. In theory, the remaining players can breed the Genesis Frog and reach victory, but it's next to impossible in practice. Frog breeding is a time-consuming process, and every activity in Sburb has some way it can go horribly wrong and wreck the timeline. A scraped session has no room for mistakes, because there is no time player to reset them and keep the timeline on track. Scraped sessions almost always run out of time, without having even a Scratch Construct to start over.

Unlocked sessions lack a player for either cardinal aspect, but they have at least two other players, all of whom have worked through the game and accomplished incredible feats of personal growth. Whether through classpect powers, a game mechanics exploit, or ▟▚▘▜▙ ▓▓▓▓, they gain access to another session, usually associated with people they know or are connected to.

Corruption sessions include at least four total players, plus at least one Lord or Muse, and somewhere in that mix must be a time player and a space player. In these sessions, the mechanics of the game have corrupted and introduced an additional endgame boss-level entity or game-breaking obstacle for the players. (This is associated with outside influence or the Game's physical media being damaged.) It's unclear whether the code corruption introduces the master classes, the game "promotes" ordinary players to master classes to offer a fighting chance against the new complications, or that the master classes appeared organically and require an immense challenge for their personal quest. Which corrupted first - the chicken or the 0?

[sburbian-sage]

Native Witch of Breath here, also been a Witch of Might and Witch of Void, though currently a Heir of Hope. I gotta say, I personally put a lot of stock in familiar theory! I just don't think it applies to every Witch in every session, and the was that cherub was doing it was pretty crazy.

It can be part of the progression of a cryptical class, I think. Witches can be hard to understand, so they in turn get something that's usually not even the same species, or thinks very differently to them, that *they* have to deal with not being able to understand. (Not sure if Mages have an equivalent? Maybe they do and it's just not as obvious.)

It also ties into the whole "Witches usually prototype something terrible" thing. Often the sprite actually is the familiar- a familiar doesn't need to stay with you the entire game, just long enough for the game to try and get the point across.

My first session, I prototyped my pet bird that died. It was a very touching reunion, but it was SO eager to leave, and I had to keep convincing it to stay, until I eventually realized that sprites leaving was part of the game, and that as a Breath player I shouldn't be restricting something's freedom anyway, even if it was to much of a birdbrain to really explain itself.

In the session I was a Witch of Might, it was admittedly a little more metaphorical. I was going out of my skull trying to understand the "Might is water" thing, and so I took the glitch FAQ's advice, and went to stare at an ocean.

And then after doing that for an hour I lost it because I was under a lot of stress in general and this was the last straw and blew up the beach (bombkind FTW). But after I was done, I saw all the water, pooling in the craters I left, flowing together to join the whole, and suddenly something clicked. After that point, it was really hard to conceptualize water as NOT being alive, an ever-present being in the vapor around me, that I had to learn how to ask for help. Like how the water could only pool once I made the craters for it, I needed to figure out that same kinda stuff for other situations.

...And than as the Witch of Void, I didn't have one. Which, I guess makes sense, but I HAVE heard of Void Witches that do have a familiar, so whatever.

So yeah, I guess I don't have any solid proof here, I get that any of these things could have happened to any player- but my point is, it's how Witches RELATE to these things, that's different. Every player has a sprite that leaves them, but a Witch may find that it's oddly related to their aspect. Every player has to figure out their aspect and listen to it's whisperings, but as a Witch I practically saw it as another player in it's own right. And then sometimes maybe it just doesn't happen, I dunno.

Finally, I think this is a stretch, but it might even be part of why Witches get that weird crazy boost to gardening? Plants are also living things that are different from you, so a plant could be your familiar, and it would be bad if it died or never got planted before it could fulfill it's role?

Very interesting. Or because you discussed plants, intreesting.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, it seems like Familiar Theory doesn't relate to an actual game construct, so much as it refers to a sort of (para)psychological event, not unlike the Third Man Factor. It's not that Witch players somehow gain access to special pets when that's normally impossible, it's that the cryptical nature of Witches is isolating, being deliberately obtuse and interacting with the game in such a manner that no other player could relate to the Witch even if it wasn't mechanically penalized. So the Witch, in a way, conceptualizes a companion or other meaningful relationship who they can relate to (alleviating the isolation) and who communicates with them or otherwise imparts meaning in an obtuse, nonobvious, or cryptic manner (acting as a Witch to the Witch, as you said, or perhaps being a Class-analogue of the normally Aspect-oriented Whispers).

If anything, this seems somewhat comparable to the various SBURB mental disorders. Not to imply that you're a repeated sufferer of mental delusions, mind, only that it's a special psychological phenomenon that could only really be understood in the context of SBURB. Not to mention that the mental disorders are all deleterious in nature (hence "disorder"), while Familiar Theory seems mostly positive.

Emphasis on mostly, because as we know the Cherub Witch of Hope is off her rocker. With all of this in mind though, I wonder if it's possible to "diagnose" her, in a way. She called her brother "a beast to be tamed", said that "controlling him was [her] only hope", and that he was her "reward" for making it through the session. She's not currently a Witch of Hope, I think, that's her Native Title and I don't know what she is currently (her brother's Native Title is unknown but he's currently a Mage of Rage). A fair amount of this boils down to her believing that her brother is innately evil or destructive (even though he seems pretty pleasant), but how much of this relates to Familiar Theory? "Reward" implies a certain amount of possessiveness, less like she's the student and he's the teacher, more like she's the owner and he's the pet. As far as "Familiar Theory as the Third Man Factor" goes, SBURB is already stressful, and a duo session would be doubly stressful at least. Especially because only one "side" is active at a time, halving the rate at which progress is made, and depriving an already loney Witch of anyone she could possibly talk to. I think I have two theories now.

Theory #1 is that she underwent a sort of stress meltdown in her first session, and underwent "Familiar Theory" towards her brother as a coping mechanism. She ascribes negative intention to him, and felt like she was their only chance at survival, with him as a malicious millstone. As an active harbinger of complexification, wielding rejection, she began putting up a facade of saccharine disposition, and adopted a drive to sublimate her alter ego. A strengthening of willpower that let her fully embody active Hope, pushing against the odds and rejecting any undesired outcomes, including those of an unsuccessful session, and her brother achieving dominance (or equilibrium). Of course, abusers derive power from mistreating others, so she isn't letting her "Familiar" go unless she can be forced to. This theory accounts for everything, of course. His needing to be tamed (malicious intentions ascribed), controlling him is her only hope (internalizing rejection), her reward (someone she has power over), and the material conditions for a Witch to seek a Familiar.

Theory #2, of course, is that she isn't even understanding Familiar Theory correctly, and is instead interpreting it uber-literally. This theory accounts for her being a skeevy weirdo with a loose grip on reality, because she is the Cherub Pet Gal.

[botanicalcanopus]

i asked that because had jade's meteor impacted [which it did in the davesprite timeline], the planet would have been shattered, denying any exile events from happening that would spawn a new civilization [on the same planet anyway]

Is it stated that it would shatter the world anywhere? Given the size of it it would leave a massive crater but not necessarily destroy the world. It may have looked massive but so was Dave's and it impacted as well, Bro just split it with his sword (which would still cause a massive impact just two of them). I think Beq was just buying Jade more time since their session was extremely short to begin with!