#saints row vice kings

[whoredmode]

“You’re smoking with Shaundi aren’t you?”

“No…Pierce and Carlos are here too.”

was thinking about what i said a couple of days ago and thought that since aisha is still alive (as in having not faked her death) that she’d bring johnny to all these fancy music events/dinners/etc. johnny and aisha’s married life is everything to me, actually.

[titaniumrock]

Love my little Playa.

[nevertellinu]

Idris Elba as Benjamin King

Christina Ricci as Tanya Winters

Demetrius Shipp Jr as Warren Williams

Terry Crews as Anthony (Big Tony) Green

[and-its-with-one-l-bitch]

⚜️ Saints Row 1 questions for your OCs ⚜️

1. Does your Playa have a name? What is it?

2. What were they doing before getting caught in the middle of a shootout and recruited by Julius?

3. How do they feel about joining the Saints? Are they excited, scared, ready to kick ass?

4. Be honest. Do they kick ass at canonisation, or do they get their ass kicked?

5. Which leiutenant is your Playa closest to?

6. Is there a leiutenant your Playa actually dislikes?

7. Which antagonist would you recruit into the Saints, regardless of who it is or what they've done? Why?

8. If they hadn't joined the Saints, would your Playa have ended up in the Carnales, Rollerz, or Vice Kings? What would they be doing if not?

9. Which character do you think got done dirty?

10. What's your Playa's favorite radio station?

11. Is your Playa really mute, to you? If no, what lines would you have added to the game, and if yes, how do they deal with that around other Saints?

12. Are there any mistakes your Playa made that they're never going to forget?

13. What's your Playa's relationship like with the top Saints? Think, Johnny, Dex, Lin, Troy, Julius?

14. Freckle Bitch's or Apollo's?

[megafreeman]

I think the biggest design difference between Santo Ileso, Stilwater and Steelport you can make is the fact that Santo Ileso was designed like a real city, while Stilwater and Steelport were designed as the setting for a video game.

Stilwater and Steelport were designed around the gameplay features and narrative of their respective games, where as Santo Ileso was designed as a realistic functional city. Putting under readmore cause this post got longer than I expected lol

For example, Santo Ileso has everything a functioning city would realistically have. It has multiple police stations around the city (even though getting busted doesn't exist), it has multiple hospitals (even if respawns are fast travel spots), it has multiple fire stations who serve no purpose what so ever except to spawn unique firefighter NPCs, and it has other city service buildings like a dedicated power plant, city hall, city courtroom that are absolutely irrelevant for any activity or mission in the game. It has all these stuff, because its something a functioning city in United States would have.

Meanwhile Stilwater is the opposite. A lot of the things in Stilwater only exist because its a central point of a certain mission or activity, or maybe even some collectibles. And while the city itself is very beautiful and has an amazing diversity, when you take a closer look, you'd notice that some things that make up a functional city are lacking. For example, in the original Saints Row, Stilwater doesn't have either a power plant, or a proper graveyard, but both of these things were added to the city in a sequel because they were a central point of missions in that game. Hell, the city doesn't even have a fire station to the point they didn't have where to put fire truck spawns in SR2.

I think this can also be reflected in the gang territory distribution in SR1, where you can kinda feel that certain areas exist because it makes sense for the gangs they designed. Suburbs and truckyard for Rollerz, who are mostly consisted of middle class white kid and deal in car part trade, Barrio (hispanic district) obviously as the base for Carnales, who also heavily rely on drug import from Colombia and also contorl the ports, and Vice Kings, who own the downtown with their legal presence and Red Light with their prostitution business ran by Tanya. Especially if you take into account the existence Strongholds in SR1 and SR2 too, you can tell they put a lot of love giving each gang a purpose in every neighborhood they controlled instead of just randomly assigning territory.

I know I used mostly SR1 as example since that was the original purpose of Stilwater, but I think this also applies to SR2. The newly added University and it being controlled by Samedi because their drugs are popular among the college students, Marina/Casino district being controlled by Ronin with their fronts there, and Brotherhood just being a direct continuation of Carnales.

And now I gotta talk about the black sheep; Steelport. We all read the design doc and know that most of the city is bad by design, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think big part of the reason why Steelport is lame is because its a setting of a lame game. I know this is a shallow statement, but think about it, is there any reason for the city to be significant except for graphics? You get to visit like 7 outta 10 unique buildings in the city through the main narrative already, and activities are just so one dimensional (they are more sidejobs for your lieutenants rather than exploring the city), that none of them call for unique locations like SR1 and SR2 did.

And this, kinda shows the drastic change in the approach they use for map building between 2011 and 2022 (Steelport and Santo Ileso). Both are boring games, with bad and rushed storylines, and barely any worthwhile activities. And yet, Santo Ileso is an amazing urban setting compared to Steelport. I think this is because for the reboot, they were actually making a city for their game, instead of just a playground for their gameplay.

This post doesn't really mean anything except me thinking out loud, but its fun to think about game design, and how amazing Volition actually was at map design. We truly lost something unique to the industry.

[kikidewynter]

dex’s motivations

we don’t know much about dex (so most of this is headcanon and speculation) but i think the context is absolutely the clue. he grew up, we have to assume, in the row, therefore he’s either poor or working class. he’s the most ambitious saint and clearly works hard to make his way up to the top. this drive that isn’t really found in the other characters leads me to believe that he either is or feels the pressure to be his family’s breadwinner (admittedly more of a biased, optimistic reading than him simply looking out only for himself, but it’s important to remember he does canonically have a sister—at least one person he possibly has to provide for). he’s ambitious AND smart, so why doesn’t he just get a job? well, he seems to be around college age, which if true means that he’s obviously not still in education. the main reason this could be the case is money. college is expensive, and, if we go with the breadwinner theory, time-wasting—a further strain on his family’s needs. without college education, how hard do you think it would be for a young Black man from an impoverished district (which would undoubtedly carry a city-wide reputation) to land a well-paying job befitting his intelligence? but, here’s something seemingly unrelated but absolutely vital in the context, this is the city of ben king and the vice kings. they’ve been around since the 70s, so without a doubt they must’ve had an influence on dex growing up. here’s another Black man who shares dex’s origins—from a poor, neglected district, a gang member who worked his way up as far as he could get. he started a legitimate business, has powerful connections, and is himself one of the most powerful people in the city, and certainly wealthy. it’s the kind of story dex could look at and imagine for himself—finally something plausible, something he’s capable of and has the means to achieve himself. it’s almost a cruel twist of fate that ben ended up with warren and not dex as his lieutenant.

dex in sr2

i’ve gone back and forth on this before but i think it’s absolutely possible for dex to succumb to paranoia, and have that affect his behaviour and relationships.

he was in a street gang. they killed people, powerful people, and he personally got them involved with the colombians. he could implicate a lot of people. he was canonised. blood in, blood out. you don’t just leave. this alone is enough to have anyone looking over their shoulder for the rest of their life.

johnny holds a grudge against him for leaving. johnny tried to kill troy. he went after a cop! what’s to stop him or any other saint from coming after dex?

he’s ultor’s chief of security, meaning he has constant exposure to threat, surveillance, armed guards, etc. and he has all of these things in his control, to be orchestrated as he sees fit. how long do you think it would take for someone in his position to grow paranoid, maybe trigger-happy? after all, it’s his job to instinctively snuff out threats before they can materialise.

he’s smart. he’s a tactical thinker. he’s going to have a plan for every outcome. but the saints are unpredictable. he’s had years to sit and stew in his thoughts and wonder how long it’s going to be before someone comes for him, and it’s possible he would overestimate johnny or the boss because they’re both capable of great carnage—it’s possible that no matter how he prepares himself, he believes they’re going to get him anyway.

[bigboyplaya]

Non-Playa Saints Row Characters

TOP LEFT

Name: James Jackson Jr.

Not much is known about James before his life in Stilwater, however, he did grow up in London in a housing estate. He joined the Vice Kings shortly after moving to America, but later left due to him not joining the coupe against Ben King. He knew Axel prior to joining the Saints.

James was the least liked member of the 3rd Street Saints and was kept under close watch by Julius Little. Julius had a feeling that James was the most likely to betray the Saints, due to his suspicious behaviour while being with the Vice Kings. He joined the gang purely for monetary gain and clout, since being a failed drill rapper was all he had achieved thus far. Julius tries to have James killed in an police ambush during a drug deal, which Playa saves him from.

He joined the Saints as a form of protection against Tanya Winters and the rest of the Kings, who he believes are trying to kill him because he refuses to betray King.

TOP RIGHT

Name: Noah Meunier

Already introduced him. (Twice.)

BOTTOM LEFT

Name: Stephanie "Steph" Lauren

Steph was born and grew up in London, later immigrating to the United States in pursuit of fame and fortune. She joins the Kings as a way to gain access to money and Kingdom Come Records. Steph eventually becomes a lieutenant for the Kings and is undoubtedly loyal to Benjamin King before she is swayed by Tanya Winters and Warren Williams.

Steph joins Tanya in taking down Ben King, but when things go south she manages to escape from the clutches of Ben and the Saints by leaving the city. She returns home to London, where she hides until she hears of the Saints being basically destroyed.

Two years after SR1, Steph returns to America and begins her own gang called the 'Dukes'. She is an active threat to Playa, wanting them dead before they can kill her by act of revenge and get justice for Tanya, Anthony and Warren.

Steph agrees to work with Ultor, specifically Dane Vogel, as both intend on ending the Saints reign of terror, though Steph only has interest in taking the Saints territory for herself.

I wanted to make her a sort of mirror of Playa, since I refuse to suspend my disbelief about the fact that other gangs wouldn't rise up to threaten the Saints post SR2. So Steph is there to keep my narrative interesting, like a looming threat in the background.

BOTTOM RIGHT

Name: Fabien

Eccentric and flamboyant, though very combat aware and deadly with a sniper, Fabien is one of the Morningstar's better assets. His only issue is the fact that he is a rather charming snake, with nobody quite sure about which side he is playing for.

Fabien is a rather minor character, with him being a Morningstar Specialist and friend of Axel. He helps out the Saints, but only because Axel is there. He holds no major attachments to any gang, and isn't too fussed about going against the Morningstar.

Phillip Loren knew Fabien's uncle, and that's why he was recruited for the gang. Otherwise, he probably would have become a real estate agent or something.

[moonspower]

Vi mun, name some of Vi's verses. For science, i just wanna see where all you've put him!

well he was a final fantasy x oc first and foremost!!! sailor moon, kaleidostar, chance pop session, tokyo mew mew, magical shopping arcade abenobashi, yu-gi-oh, death note, berserk, so many anime i can't even..... anyway. all the god damn mario games on planet earth but especially paper mario!!! soul calibur, mortal kombat, grand theft auto 5, grand theft auto 4, grand theft auto 3, grand theft auto: vice city, You Would Have To Convince Me On GTA San Andreas, saint's row, la noire, ghost of tsushima, harvest moon, animal crossing, 999, virtue's last reward, zero time dilemma, slime rancher, currently playing disco elysium so we'll see what i do with that, god of war, undertale, deltarune, new japan pro wrestling / WWE / AEW / wrestling general, terminator, king of the hill, daria, beavis & butthead, hey arnold, totally spies, invader zim.

and apparently the andy griffith show now since i have a mutual who rps barney and i love adventure.

he has a general idol / fame verse.... he is too unhinged for it tho. anyway.

honestly i can throw his lil ass anywhere and make it work.

[masschase]

2 photos taken seconds before disaster

I finally revisited some old sketches so here are Casey's looks from the start and end of Saints Row (2006)

“You know... I don’t know anything about your life before the Saints... like, at all.”

“Yeah, no-one really does.” That wasn’t really true. Out of everyone on the ship, one person knew it vaguely. The other knew it rather well. “Look, I don’t mind you knowing. It’s just a pain in the ass explaining it all.”

“You could give me an abbreviated version?”

She sighed. “OK...” she thought about it a second. “Short version is... dad left soon after I was born, sister practically raised me, pill-junkie mom kicked me outta the house at fifteen for bein’ bi.”

“See, I knew you had to have a tragic backstory.”

“It’s not tragic, Kinzie, it’s just... you know... a bit shitty.” she responded, shrugging. “My friend’s mom was used to taking care of me so she let me crash at hers for a couple’a weeks, but eventually she said I’d better go back home, and I couldn’t bring myself to tell her I didn’t have one anymore. Next thing I know, I’m walkin' around the streets of Saint's Row at a REALLY stupid time of night to be walkin' around the streets of Saint's Row."

“Right. You get caught in a gang battle, a Vice King nearly shoots you, Troy and Julius save your ass.”

“Yep. Congratulations, you officially know as much of my life before the Saints as Johnny does.”

(if anyone wants a long overanalysis of how symbolic these outfits are please feel free to ask 🤣)

[chaoticsaints]

I find it pretty funny that Keith David is a president/vice president in Rick and Morty and Saints Row 4. Do you think their universes could be connected?

To be honest with you, I do. ive thought about this since i was like 16, but i also thought the idea was slightly cringe (at the time, now i let my cringe free). i could soo totally see boss and rick getting along so well, the fact theyre both reckless and flirty, the way they both act like "im tough, i dont care about anyone" but in reality they care so much that theyre willing to sacrifice themselves for their loved ones. plus cmon, the fact they both can not only avoid authority so well, but the fact theyve both been able to get out of jail with little to no actual punishment for their crimes? oh thats best friends right there i think. plus we can imply that saints row has some sort of canon/lore connection to adult swim tv show lore anyways, since jimmy - the guy who makes Johnny tag in the clones dlc for saints row 3 - is clearly supposed to be the nerd from robot chicken (literally even featuring the same voice - which iirc is done by seth green)

additionally with the fact that a song from the tim and eric show (the sports theme) as well as the aqua teen hunger force them and a MF doom song being included on the radio sound track? i mean i know adult swim did contribute to the game, but its not entirely clear in what way the adult swim universe is tied into saints row. especially cos they drop nearly all references to it outside of the fact im pretty sure you can have johnny tag and clone aisha as companions in sr4 (not entirely sure though since its been months since i played sr4 last and you do have to unlock them).

plus the line that the president has in the "get schwifty" episode' "...I'm the goddamn president of the united fucking states"... totally sounds like something he'd say when being confronted by boss for his backstabbing...

which honestly not to be tangential but i have to talk about that now bc im sooo realizing how genius it is to make keith backstab boss.... especially because he does it right before you get put into a simulation where you have to fight Julius little? i may hark on saints row 4's writing but goddd the fan service they give to us can be soo good. It almost makes me wonder if keith david is a clone or hologram that zinyak made specifically to betray/trick boss - especially since hes the only one (other than Benjamin king, but this you could argue Ben wasnt immune to it, since it was teased in the cutscene, plus you could make the point that boss doesnt see Ben the same way they see someone like johnny whos been a long time friend and companion and even someone like matt miller, who may be a genuine threat - posessing skills boss doesnt have/understands - but boss still sees him as "lesser" or equal to them bc of who matt is outside of his keyboard) who rejects boss' advances in the ship. especially because his bitterness not only towards boss, but zinyak. He makes a mention of originally campaigning to be the president before "zinyak kicked the stool out from under him", and since hes aware earth is gone... why would he care abt being president of holograms? some of the plot points they make in sr4 are a tad annoying for the reason that they love to set up stuff like this, and the audio log collectables tell us so much, yet, they wont do anything with it unless its inherently funny.

dont get me wrong, love saints row's humor but i just wish they wouldnt sacrifice interesting plots and characters for it. And i wish they would solidify canon more.

TLDR; i do think saints row and rick and morty are connected in some way yes. the way i think the saints row universe is indeed intertwined with other adult swims shows due to saints row 3 giving us plenty of hints that the universe are connected in some way.

[dontsayiexist]

TO CLEAR CONFUSION ON THE LAST POST:

This is my other three OCs I mentioned.

Rosabel is my main Boss OC for most things Saints Row, Desiree is my Vice Kings LT OC, and Cherri is my Deckers LT OC.

[whoredmode]

A DUBIOUSLY ACCURATE HISTORY OF STILWATER (& STEELPORT)

So if it’s not obvious by the obnoxiously long post I’ve made talking about the musical history of Stilwater, I’m fascinated by the worldbuilding of Saints Row. And in my quest of learning more about the setting of the series, I’ve pieced together my own headcanons on the general history of the city…and its cousin, Steelport. I’ve spent the last several days going over canonical histories of both cities, primarily Stilwater as it was my original goal, and put together my own ideas of how I think the cities developed prior to the start of the games in 2006. Some of this is based on actual canon evidence, other stuff is just my own conclusions. 

CANON TIMELINE

1783

Knight Plaza is founded, predating the founding of Stilwater itself

1787

Pennsylvania becomes a state

Unspecified year in the 1800s

Stilwater founded

1827

Steelport founded

1837

Michigan becomes a state

1940

Stilwater builds a new sewer system

Post-1940: An earthquake strikes Stilwater

1947

Sunset Park is built in Steelport

1970s

Vice Kings VS Los Carnales. Assumedly mid-to-late 70s into early 80s

1977: Stilwater is voted the most family-friendly city

MAPPING THINGS OUT

So it’s never exactly stated where Stilwater and Steelport are located comparatively. We know they’re in the Rust Belt, and Stilwater is expressly stated to be in Michigan. I’m inclined to say the cities are fairly close to each other (Stilwater in Michigan while Steelport is probably closer to Pennsylvania), probably several hours by car, if only because of similarities in industry, aesthetics, and even a few moments in-game. It can be fairly easily implied that the cities are within several hours driving distance of each other (my guesstimate is 7-8 hours away by car); especially given that in the beginning of SRTT they are able to land in Steelport so quickly despite assumedly not even being in the plane for more than an hour before they blow it up. 

TIMING THINGS OUT

The Stilwater Church is a gothic style church, assumedly a product of the gothic revival in the mid-1800s. Given that Steelport was founded in 1827, I’d say Stilwater was founded around this time as well, potentially ~1830. It was an unused territory for several years and did not get further development until after Michigan’s statehood was granted in 1837. 

I believe, given the architecture of Old Stilwater and the architecture of older buildings in Steelport, that both cities had a huge economic boom starting in the 1920s and had a period of growth and expansion. I’d say things were looking up for Stilwater going into the 1940s and 50s, but the earthquake sent the city into a really bad place economically. Worth noting that Steelport did not seem to be affected by the earthquake or tremors, which allowed it to continue to prosper while Stilwater tried to pick up its broken pieces.

Let’s go back a little into the 1800s, after Stilwater’s founding. I believe some time in the late 1830s/early 1840s, private railways were laid nearby to Stilwater, but the area itself would not get connected to the mainland of Michigan by rails until around the 1850s. Initially it was being used as a place for manufacturing, but wealthy people with railroad money saw the potential for a resort area. We’ll get into that in a moment.

Stilwater clearly had some manufacturing business as evidenced by the factories and boatyards, but I don’t think it ever reached the level of industry as Steelport did. Steelport also had the advantage of being founded a few years earlier. We know canonically that Stilwater has a steel factory and an oil refinery. I believe the steel factory is a minimill specifically, given its small size and the junkyard nearby; this means it uses scrap metal in its steel production. I’d date the mill around the 1890s but with several updates through the years until it was ultimately shut down. The oil refinery was probably built around the 1950s or 60s given its look, though it still appears to be somewhat operational? You can still see plumes coming out of the towers.

I know the Carnales own it, but I don't think they're necessarily refining oil or even using it as a cover for something; I think they’re getting profits from it and protecting it. From what I can tell the oil refinery may be the only factory still in actual operation, as the steel mill is just being used for the Carnales’ arms dealing. 

So where does that leave Old Stilwater’s actual primary industry? If it’s not steel factories like Steelport, and the oil refinery didn’t come into being until around the mid-20th century, what did the city do? All throughout Stilwater there’s old, decommissioned railway tracks.

Parts of them were obviously meant for more general transportation of products, as evidenced by the tracks near the factories, but others follow the slightly newer, raised tracks of the transit system. This implies that at one point, Stilwater had a need for moving people into and out of the city. Given that the tracks also led to a nice hotel at one point (the hotel underground in SR2), there was clearly a market for people getting around to some sort of entertainment and/or hospitality.

Which leads me to my theory/headcanon/whatever that Stilwater, starting in the late 1800s and into the early 20th century, had a nice trolley park and was known mostly for its entertainment. This became its primary source of revenue. 

For starters, all throughout SR2, there is talk about returning Stilwater to former glory, and tourism is obviously its most booming industry at that point in the series, so this seems to imply that it was known for tourism at one point. Stilwater itself has such a heavy emphasis on pleasure in the first two games, so it feels as if that’s always been a part of itself. Even just the fact that a record label was able to start and flourish there says that there is an entertainment scene in Stilwater and it’s a core part of its identity. Not to mention it being voted a family-friendly city in the late 70s, a point where it looked as if it might’ve started to recover from its post-earthquake troubles, further implies that there was a family-friendly image it kinda had. I think the idea of it being a trolley park in the late 1800s and into the 1900s makes a lot of sense. Stilwater itself is quite picturesque, and trolley parks began because of the rise in popularity of picnics. Families and friends went out to the nice waterside area of Stilwater, and suddenly there’s a need for more direct lines into and out of the area; next thing you know there’s new entertainment being constructed so more and more people want to come in. This all follows a pretty clear line in terms of what’s in Stilwater.

Trolley parks went out of fashion with the rise of amusement parks in the 1920s, and though Stilwater doesn’t have an amusement park, I believe Stilwater went in the direction of building venues for things like cabaret, bars, and brothels. It ended up leaning more heavily on adult entertainment, which makes sense given how it looks at the start of the series. Stilwater became synonymous with pleasure, even if it was starting to shy away from the more all-ages entertainment it had in the 19th century.  

So by the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, Stilwater was an extremely popular destination. It had great entertainment, beautiful hotels, and easy access to sex, drugs, and alcohol. All of this caught the attention of the Carnales, probably around the late 40s, and by the 1950s they began to have a hand in many of the institutions of Stilwater. 

One thing that caught my attention was a radio ad in SR1 in which Hughes says that his parents moved to Stilwater 50 years ago (so around 1956) and that, at the time, Stilwater was still a lively place. If we’re to assume the earthquake was the beginning of the end of Stilwater, we can easily guess that the earthquake either happened later that same year, or a year afterwards. With that in mind, around 1956-57, a huge earthquake hits Stilwater, razing most of the city. The place is in shambles, both physically and economically. That said, the Carnales are still expecting things like payments for their business, but now many people are unable to comply, having lost their means of income. In turn, the Carnales became a much larger, even more intimidating presence in Stilwater all throughout the rest of the 50s and 60s. 

Presumably at some point in the 1960s, a cult begins to form. People were seeking guidance and safety in the wake of such a huge natural disaster, and thus Philosotology began to take form. It stays relatively in the background for most of its life, but throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s more and more people join, especially those in places of power. I won’t get too into the development of Philosotology, as this is about the more general history of Stilwater, but I would be remiss to not mention it. The point being, by the 80s and 90s, they’re running things from behind the scenes, to the point they’re just a staple of Stilwater come modern day.

As we move through the 20th century, the progression of the canon story takes form. In the 70s, Julius Little and Benjamin King—sick of the Carnales presence in Stilwater—decide to take back the city. So throughout the 70s, the Vice Kings and the Carnales fight, with the Vice Kings ultimately coming out on top. In the late 70s and early 80s, it seems as if Stilwater might return to former glory, as the birth of Kingdom Come Records helped revitalize the arts and music scene of the city. 

However, the economy of Stilwater does not recover. Generations of Stilwaterians have been hurt by decades of poverty, of negligence by those in power, and it is not the thriving coastal city it was in the early-to-mid 20th century. Obviously, these factors (and many more) contribute to how the events of the first game begin. 

A QUICK TANGENT ABOUT STEELPORT

So where does Steelport fit into all of this? I mentioned it at the start, so surely I must have something to say. 

Steelport was founded in 1827 in Pennsylvania. It was an industrial city, full of steel factories, and it stayed that way for many years. The city steadily grew over several decades, and around the turn of the century, a large number of people from Europe moved to Steelport for work. And it was around this time that the organized crime syndicates of Europe were beginning to take hold in Steelport. 

Fast forward to the 1970s. Phillipe Loren, a high-ranking member of the Syndicate in Belgium, had ties to several of the gangs that were now in Steelport, so he goes to the city himself to see if it’s worth a US expansion. Seemingly pleased, Loren uses his status to begin doing more work with the gangs in Steelport. By the late 80s, Loren had become head of the Syndicate.

It was also around this time in the 70s that I believe Steelport began to essentially fill the hole that was left after Stilwater was destroyed by the earthquake. There was a need for places like hotels, brothels, and casinos in this area of the Rust Belt—and Steelport, being flush with cash, was able to fill that demand. In Steelport’s later years, it became more of an icon of sin and pleasure, perhaps even more than Stilwater was. It was bigger and flashier. But despite its hedonistic charm, Steelport was not exactly heading in a great direction by the 90s. 

Similarly to Stilwater, it fell on hard times economically, with many areas falling into disrepair. Many of these areas are still like this even into the modern day as poverty is still a very large issue within Steelport, though as usual is not a topic of concern for those in charge. Thus, the Syndicate very easily continues to spread its control. By the 2000s, Loren and the Syndicate are running the city. 

Getting a little ahead of my timeline, but worth talking about real quick: in 2011, Loren gets into contact with Maero about arms deals and potential expansion into Stilwater. At this point, Loren was already in bed with Ultor so to speak, but this was his first contact with one of the other gangs. Obviously this deal is hurt by the Saints, but that will only come back to bite them in a few years. 

CONCLUSION

I wanted to write some grand conclusion about all this, but to be honest my eyes are starting to glaze over from hours of running around in the first two games, reading documents on my computer, and scribbling four pages of written notes. I read some official Michigan documents on the history of the railway system in the state. I’ve never even been. What am I going to do with this knowledge now.

Stilwater is interesting and was worth a deep dive into the potential history of the area. I used to be the teaching assistant for a class on worldbuilding in college, so this type of shit is just super fascinating to me. And Stilwater has so many bits of scattered information that I really wanted to try to piece everything together in a mostly coherent way. It’s just a setting I really love for some personal reasons, and I just thought I’d give writing its history a shot. Perhaps in some ways like a love letter to the fictional city, or maybe just as a way to fill my long weekend. Who knows.

[the-binding-of-gekko]

Okay so in the Agents of Mayhem timeline, Vicky would still be a lieutenant in the Stilwater PD, Antonio got shot and died on that street corner because the Saints weren't there to save him and Marty is founder of a punk rock band and a member of the Carnales, and later the Vice Kings.

Vicky and Pierce are NOT besties in this timeline because she's currently trying to throw him and the rest of the Kings in prison. She really hates gangs because of Antonio's death, quite unlike her Saints Row iteration.

Vicky and Marty join MAYHEM after being sought out by Persephone, and while Vicky likes it and thinks of it as a rather large promotion, she hates the fact that she has to work with Pierce. They do eventually get on friendlier terms, but they are by NO means anything close to best friends.

Marty and Kinzie are dating in the AoM timeline, too, and it's just as on and off as their Saints version.

[danthepest]

Imagine being one of the Saints grunts/wannabes when the Boss joined up. You’ve been with the crew for a while and Julius is finally ready to take the fight to the other gangs. Then this nobody shows up and ends up beating the tar out of the ones who were supposed to canonize them.

So whatever, Johnny kicked ass too. So what. They’re still on the same level as you. Hell, even below you because they just joined. You keep reminding them to step up and who they represent. Then you hear how they’re getting the gang rerspect from various pimps, dealers, hijackers and crime lords.

B-but whatever, they still need to prove themselves useful in the fight against the VKs, LC and WRs. And before your very eyes, this newbie overtakes you and becomes to the go-to person for Dex, Lin and Johnny because they get shit done. It doesn’t take long before they go from being #2 for the lieutenants to being Julius’ #2 and then finally, actually running the gang. All without saying a word.

This mute motherfucker literally appeared out of nowhere, took out the gangs and is now leading yours. And it scares you. You can’t tell what they’re feeling or thinking. their body count and trail of destruction speaks volumes. Gone is your bravado, replaced with fear and doubt of your place in the gang. You start kissing up to them because you know you’re fucked if they turn their sights on you.

[mintyeggs]

in lieu of the saints row boss factory release, heres a redraw of the funniest scene in sr1

[jerdynnn]

cursing ur dash tonight with biracial menace tanya winters