#rrverse reread

[padneryeehaw]

The eloquence of

The great uncle Rick in the

Form of Haiku, Art!

[helpallthenamesaretaken]

sometimes im okay and then i remember the real reason why annabeth was so scared of the eidolons possessing percy was because he had golden eyes like luke when he was possessed and then im not okay

[malrie]

bear with me but the tlh trio being antagonists would have been leagues more compelling. especially over the canonical unfinished arcs they received by the end of the series.

piper being capable of having it all and getting anything she wants but unable to understand why she cannot receive the exact kind of love she’s always craved hence having to force people to give it to her. piper has arguably the most evil-coded power of them all: she can force people to do things they’re unwilling to do. even the gods are not exempt from this. to have that much power and not be corrupted by the ease the world affords her as a neglected child ... piper having to satiate her simultaneous desire and abhorrence of love with her ability to demand it by force.

leo canonically being a failed experimental homebrewed hero by hera (watching over for him as a baby, leaving snakes in his cradle a la hercules, overall obsession about him she never even had for jason, who had been offered to her) and having his mother die in conjunction with the narrative he was being forced into by an ancient force planning around his future. which is akin to a chosen one origin story but flipped on its head because canonically by book 1 leo has little heroic empathy and nobleness that percy holds and holds in his heart every grudge against every single person who has ever slighted him. can name them all. hates humanity and prefers his machinery. and has a negative view on the world that never cared for him. because why should he care when the only one who’s ever cared about him burned in his own flames.

jason, little obedient child soldier who does everything he’s told because it’s all he’s been taught. he’s charismatic in leading but not because it comes naturally. everyone who has ever admired him adored what he’s built his character to be like. jason has no real sense of self + no desire to find it because what is the point when that’s not what this world needs from him. and so badly he needs to be needed. piper in moa met hercules, vain and selfish and bringing everyone down with him and thought: “A hero couldn't control the gods, but he should be able to control himself. Jason would never be like that.” because jason is control incarnate. and he can control himself until he can’t. until he realizes he’s owed the the world enough. and the world owes him now.

[gojoiskira]

life-changing PJO quotes: lightning thief

"Why does it always have to be sixth grade?"

"He had about three hairs on his head"

"I had slashed my math teacher into dust with a sword"

[azhagu]

luke always talking about not wanting to be a pawn for the gods vs him literally becoming a pawn for kronos by giving up his body and agency soo sick...

[thel1ghtningthief]

i love being soooo unnormal about things like yes i AM in the process of fleshing out approximately 1200 riordanverse ocs (not including the norse and egyptians thats for later-) just so i can write in-depth and lore ridden fanfiction I'll never post, thanks for asking!

[thegoldenappleofdiscord]

percy and nico eternally victims of jason's bad pep talks

[gaygirldoodles]

As much as i love all of the heroes of olympus books for some reason i like the way i imagined piper in tlh better than the rest of the books

[m00nbuggies]

erm.. kayla. my silly. my silly billy

[arc-angel-o]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds Coach Hedge annoying 😅

[electricalcheese]

my brain be like "i should reread toa..." i should reread mcga!!" WHAT ABOUT THE KANE CHRONICLES ‼️

[curseofdelos]

love these books dearly but they are so painfully late 2000s/early 2010s sometimes

[melancholic-pigeon]

to be clear, it's not implied that they canonically want to kiss; the implication I'm referring to is just that they're literary foils meant to accentuate each other by complimentary contrast, and that's where the shipping fuel comes from. Foils are used for a reason: it's a compelling dynamic!

And some of us like to imagine them boning about it. Again, I have no issue with you if you don't, I just get a little tense when people disregard the canonical material in the books and make judgments that don't take that material into account. I've seen a lot of wank crop up that wouldn't have escalated if the instigator had recently done a reread, because they're upset that something "wasn't addressed" when it's actually just that they FORGOT it was addressed, or it was addressed subtly or in a negative space.

And honestly, all of that is a false premise, because my real point is that it's kinda not nice to tell people "your ship is unrealistic". Like, genuinely, who is it negatively impacting if someone ships something without canon basis? Who are they hurting?

I've seen the take a few times that jercy makes no sense because they don't have that many interactions in canon and that Jercy shippers are making things up

which, firstly, skill issue; I come from the era when two background characters with like three lines each were one of the biggest ships in the entire Naruto fandom (I can't even remember what Genma's boyfriend's name was)

Secondly: no, by pure math, they don't have that many interactions. The interactions they DO have, though, are moments like when they cross swords and summon a hurricane, or when Percy describes fighting alongside Jason as feeling like he'd been a cyclops his whole life and suddenly had two eyes.

Their interactions are few but gravitational, because they're foils. That's the whole point. Each one's brightness reflects the other's natural luminescence and builds to a glow neither could achieve without the other.

Like to be clear, I don't care what you ship! Ship anything you want! (Yes, really, even That Ship!) But text does not support the notion that Jercy is a crackship and I think people who fall for Jason's front don't find Jason interesting either don't remember these scenes because there weren't that many of them or missed the implications the last time they read them.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

ToA Theory 1 - Apollo's Waking Visions

First official theory post, here we go! :D

Alright. So. After rereading The Dark Prophecy, I started wondering about something. In TDP, Apollo experiences waking visions, where he conks out for a bit and has prophetic visions.

I found this interesting because, well...isn't Apollo supposed to be cut off from prophecy? With Python back in control of Delphi?

Because think about it. Python controls Delphi, the root of all earthly prophecy. This would include Dodona, Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl - sure, they aren't strictly connected to Delphi, but it's pretty heavily stated that Delphi just straight-up Makes The Future. It's prophecies are The Big Deal and you Should Listen.

Meanwhile the other Oracles seem more guiding and "beware!" instead of "this is how it's gonna be".

(sidenote: found out there are MORE oracles and I wanna know WHERE THEY ARE IN RRVERSE CANON because I want my boy Branchus okay??? Okay. Branchus's oracle was second only to Delphi let's give Apollo's first boyfriend the attention he deserves!)

So of course, like all great members of this fandom, I started thinking.

Let's do a little family history first. ;)

Buckle up. We go down a deep rabbit hole 😎

Apollo and Artemis are twins, born to Leto and Zeus. Zeus's parents are Kronos and Rhea. Leto's are Koios and Phoebe.

Rhea has connections to Dodona, as we learn in-series, but she doesn't really seem to be all that involved with prophecy.

Her siblings, meanwhile...ho ho ho, they are a WHOLE NOTHER STORY!

Let's start with Phoebe. Phoebe, like all first generation Titans, is the daughter of Gaea and Ouranos. She married her brother Koios. Her children consist of Asteria, Lelantos, and Leto. As well as Artemis and Apollo, her other two grandchildren are Hecate (Asteria) and Aura (Lelantos).

Her name means "bright" and is the root of Apollo's most famous epithet - Phoebus. She is often described as "golden-crowned" and is the Titan of bright intellect, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, and is the second guardian of Delphi, after her sister Themis. She gifted Delphi to Apollo for his birthday after he defeated Python.

Classic grandmother move.

Anyway. There's a bit of Phoebe lore. Time for her elusive husband :3

Koios. His names means "question" or "questioning", probably because he's the Titan of inquiring intellect. He's also the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and has an oracle up in the North Pole guarded by an earth-dragon - you'd know this serpent by the name of Draco, the constellation btw. Additionally, Hyperborea (where Apollo goes in the winter times) is part of his domain.

eyes

Unfortunately, we have very little mythological lore on these two, and even less in the RRverse (I cling to that one (1) Koios scene) which sucks because I love them already BUT it does give me lots of legroom to mess around with canon >:)

Back to the theory now. As you may have guessed, I'll be taking us in a direction concerning Apollo's mysterious grandparents. But what does this have to do with Apollo's visions?

Well. Remember when I mentioned that Delphi is the root of all earthly prophecies?

...look at Phoebe's paragraphs. She's the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, right? So it makes sense she's been affected by Python's takeover too.

(if you've read my fics you'd know this already lmao)

Asteria, Apollo's aunt, is a little trickier. She, too, has a hand in divination, but mainly through the night/stars and dreams. <-will come back to that later.

Koios, again, is overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and is heavily implied to be able to commune with Ouranos's spirit. This is, apparently, a Big Deal because nobody else is mentioned to be able to do this.

...Except...remember this throwaway line in The Hidden Oracle?

^Apollo can see Ouranos too.

Within this theory is a sub-theory, so to speak - that immortals with the gift of prophecy can see Ouranos, since they can see what cannot be seen. This would include Phoebe, Asteria, Koios, and Apollo.

And it'll make sense why they'd keep it to themselves. Kronos wouldn't have been happy to hear his dad was still around. Neither would Zeus, for that matter.

So here I was. Contemplating. Wrote a few fics based around this idea. And one in particular got me thinking (fic in question being When The Stars Align), and a little ways down the road I realized something.

If Phoebe, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, would have been affected by Python's takeover...was Koios? Could he even be affected?

Because here's the deal: Koios is the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies. Prophecies from the Sky.

Phoebe's are of the Earth - the Earth that Python has taken control of. And Delphi is the root of Earthly Prophecies - not Heavenly.

That would be Koios's oracle, up in the North Pole with Draco.

...So that means Heavenly Prophecy must have still been in business during ToA.

But then comes the question: If it was still within the gods' control, why didn't they use it?

Well...Draco's there, for one. He's probably the Python-equivalent of the North, and clearly he's still there since no myth has spoken of his death (that I know of).

If you ask me, I just think the gods are too nervous/afraid to try Koios's oracle. They were too scared to face Python, after all, until Apollo arrived. I think they'd be scared of a serpent who comes and goes from the stars as he pleases.

And as for why Apollo hasn't done anything about it...well, I think his fight with Python left him rather scarred, don't you think? He probably went "yeah grandma's oracle is enough" and the only time he ever got close to Koios's was during his time in Hyperborea.

So getting back to the main theory now. (So many rabbit holes to dive into with this post. The ADHD Urge is real)

Since Heavenly Prophecies is still active, but Earthly is in Python's control, I conclude Apollo's visions come from the Heavenly source.

Could they have come from the now-working Dodona? Maybe. But Dodona's all about those windchimes and trees. It doesn't have the Vibe, so to speak, for granting visions.

And remember. Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl aren't destroyed/freed yet. They have Zero connection to Apollo at this point because Python cut him off from them.

...but he didn't from the North. From Koios's divine power.

Because remember. Apollo is the god of prophecy.

Not of Earthly Prophecies, like Phoebe.

Not of Heavenly Prophecies, like Koios.

Not of nighttime divination and dreams like Asteria.

Of. Prophecy.

Prophecy as a whole. The entirety. The whole enchilada.

Every part of prophecy he's the god of, be it tarot cards to the Oracle of Delphi itself.

In my opinion, I think whatever Koios's Oracle is, it has just as must power as Delphi. The only problem was that...everybody just left it be. Nobody considered it because:

1) scary dragon

2) scary titan ruled the place

3) honestly at this point I think it's just straight-up forgotten about. Like Branchus's Oracle. I think at one point Apollo himself mentions there are other Oracles besides the ones in-series, but there's so many that his mortal brain cannot comprehend how many.

If the Grove of Dodona nearly faded into obscurity, then I think it's entirely possible Koios's Oracle was forgotten about (or so we think...I'm gonna be chewing on this for a while.)

Coming back round to TDP...I think this is a reasonable explanation about Apollo's visions. To summarize:

Apollo is cut off from Earthly Prophecy, his usual source of foresight that he gets from Phoebe

The unused, near-forgotten-about Heavenly Prophecy side of Apollo ignites to steer him on the right path

This is possible because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself, and not a single subset of prophecy, so he's not limited in the same way Phoebe is

Koios's Oracle is still out there and kicking and I will die on this hill

One problem. What about Asteria? She can interpret the future from the stars...aka the Sky. Like Koios. So couldn't she provide some insight to the future, since she, too, is connected to Heavenly Prophecy?

This is where things get a lil' tricky. And where I really slap on my tinfoil hat and start headcanoning my way through lmao

Basically, I think that since Asteria became the island of Delos (long story) a good chunk of her power is ingrained there. She's not as strong as she used to be, so her foresight isn't as strong.

This, in turn, I think could also serve as a reason why Koios's Oracle is "asleep" so to speak and nearly lost to memory in the RRverse - in fact, I think Asteria and Phoebe are the only ones who bother to remember its existence.

And Leto, of course. But I don't think she wants her son to know of another Oracle with a giant snake guarding it. She's had enough heart-attacks, thank you.

(Same with Lelantos, tbh.)

Canon is my sandbox and I am making some sweet sandcastles out of it XD

TL;DR

Apollo's visions in TDP stem from Koios's source of Heaven Prophecy because Phoebe's source of Earthly Prophecy (Delphi) has been taken over by Python. Koios's source firmly knocks on Apollo's mental doors and decides to kick back into gear to help its titular patron's grandson out. Because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself - every bit of it.

Extras:

I find it fascinating how magic and prophecy are both part of the same family tree (Hecate & Apollo).

and yes. You should expect a fic concerning Koios's Oracle at some point. but no promises on when :3

Thank you for coming to Insane Theory Time With Alder. I hope there will be more lmao

Websites you can look into:

Koios (Theoi)

Phoebe (Theoi)

Hyperborea (Theoi)

[erenfox]

Ranking the trios of the children of the Big 3:

1. Thalia, Percy, Nico: their dynamic is to die for. and the power team when they're together? pure. masterpiece. ik we got moments of them in pjo and the sword of hades but MAN would it have been badass to see them kick some primordial asses together in hoo and toa as well!

2. Jason, Percy, Nico: their dynamic, although rocky in the start, was fun to read by the time of jason's death. ik ricky never gave them proper brotherly bonding time and instead shoved the whole weird ass percico and jasico dynamic, but fanfics of them hanging out as normal brothers have cured me lmao.

Honourary #1: Bianca, Hazel, Nico: do i really need to explain to the rrverse community how this was such a tragically wasted potential ;_;

Honourary #2: Thalia, Jason, Percy: oof the hilarious trio they couldve been! the regular banter between thalia and percy with jason being dragged to choose between one of them lmaooo. and also the true sibling vibes they couldve radiated on the battlefield? missed opportunity fr :(

3. Thalia, Percy, Bianca: no cuz their relationship in ttc was so sweet ;-; the way thalia and percy looked out for bianca as if she was their little sister really makes me tear up on the rereads. rip bianca you couldve been such an overpowered child of hades, and together with percy and thalis you couldve showed the gods that demigods aren't to be messed with!

4. Jason, Percy, Hazel: the roman trio! oh how i wish we had gotten them governing camp jupiter together, showing the others why they deserve to be known as the roman little 3! but at least they got pagetime together on the argo ii lol, just wished we had more of their dynamic.

[lavenderfairiez]

how long have h been into pjo? would u evr want to meet rick? favorite all time rrverse character?

I got into pjo in like 3rd grade, read tlt and som and then stopped for whatever reason, I then got back into it a bit when they announced the show but got like fully into it when the first episode aired! Since then I've gone back and reread tlt and som and then everything up to where I am currently (halfway through the tower of Nero) I havent read tsats yet (I'm waiting till I finish ToA), or tkc or mcga yet tho!

I think I would be a little scared to meet him, not for any reason other than I'm scared of what I would say and ask... I have so many questions and thoughts... I think I would want to meet him tho 😂

All time favorite rrverse character is either Leo! But Meg, Jason, and Nico are very close seconds!