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robininthelabyrinth · 6 years ago

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Fic: The Beginning of Wisdom - Chapter 22 (Ao3 link)

Fandom: Flash, Legends of Tomorrow Pairing: Leonard Snart (Len) & Leonard Snart (Leo), Len Snart/Mick Rory, Leo Snart/Mick Rory, Len Snart/Mick Rory/Leo Snart, Leo Snart/Ray Terrill, Len Snart/Barry Allen

Summary: In which Leonard Snart is twins.

(the life and times and loves of Len and Leo Snart)

—————————————————————————————————–

Leo woke slowly, which was unusual for him – both he and Len typically woke up all at once, a sharp shift from sleep to wakefulness, and any lying around in bed after that was a conscious choice. This groggy feeling of rising up slowly through the mud towards awareness was something he associated, if at all, with being severely sick and stuffed full of medications that warned of causing drowsiness.

He didn't remember being sick.

Had he gotten drugged?

It wasn't as though people hadn't tried, of course, slipping something into his drink at clubs or even at model shoots – whether out of misplaced lust, ambition or revenge, he was never sure. He'd even accidentally had some a few times before he'd learned that he needed to be as cautious in his world of fashion as Len was in his world of crime; the only reason nothing had happened to him was that he'd generally reacted by tottering into the nearby coatroom, telling Len he was sleepy, and letting Len handle the rest of the evening while he slept it off.

Following the first few instances of that, they'd told Mick about Leo's newfound party-related narcolepsy and he'd rolled his eyes and asked them if they'd ever considered the possibility of roofies.

Since that little revelation, Leo had opted to bring his own water bottles to drink at parties. He wasn't much of a drinker anyway, he always said no to drugs – he was always getting offered so very many drugs, seriously, models were ridiculous – and anyway, it was good for a designer to have a few quirks.

(Leo was well aware that his models weren't all as clean as he'd like, but he made sure that while they were in his employ, they had regular but highly supervised access to their drug of choice to keep them from buying it anyway unsafe, and also that they had access to rehab services without the embarrassment of publicly going to a clinic. A surprising number took him up on the offer, enough that he would routinely disappear them on highly secret photography projects that let them go in-patient for a short while – it felt like the least he could do.)

Still, it'd been a long time since any of that had happened, so this was still unusual.

Where had he been the night before? A party? Some bar? Some...

No, hadn't he gone to the racetrack on that job of Len's? Yes, that was it, the racetrack job.

What boring work it was, sitting around to wait for the right moment before finally going in, doing a bit of shouting and gun-waving, and walking out with the money. It was terribly anti-climactic; Leo remembered now how much he'd disliked it as a child.

Ugh, and he'd agreed to do more of this; he must have lost his mind...

"I know you're awake."

Every muscle in Leo's body froze in terror well before his mind, floundering, finally placed the voice in his memory.

He'd heard that voice so often, so many times before, that it was indelibly seared into his brain, but he'd tried so hard to forget it and it had been so long that he'd almost succeeded.

But now it was back.

"Dad," Leo croaked, and opened his eyes.

Lewis Snart was older, fatter, and smaller than Leo remembered, but when he smiled, a stretch of the lips with no warmth in the eyes, all of that was immaterial to the terror and hatred he invoked in Leo's heart.

He was three again, five again, seven again, ten again – he was in the position he'd sworn he'd never be again, caught at the mercy of Lewis Snart, who had none.

And the worst part was: his first thought was to wonder why Len was not here to protect him.

To be him.

No.

Lewis smirked. "About time you gave up the charade," he said. "We have work to do."

"Don't work with you anymore," Leo said, struggling to sit up. He was still woozy, but he had willpower to fight through the dizziness. This was not a time to display weakness. "Haven't for years – or have you started to forget already, old man?"

Bravado, of course, and Leo was already tensing up in anticipation of the blow that speaking back to his father would earn him.

But it didn't.

Instead, Lewis smiled, a sick, twisted little smile, as if some question had been answered.

"On the contrary," he said, his piggish little eyes gleaming, "I'm starting to remember."

"What's that supposed to mean?" Leo asked cautiously.

"A few things," Lewis said, standing up. "First: you haven't asked where your sister is."

Leo froze.

No!

"Don't worry," Lewis assured him, smirk widening. "She's free as a bird – but I'm keeping a very close eye on her. If you disobey, well, that wouldn't make me happy – with either of you."

The threat was clear enough, even without the details that Lewis would undoubtedly be more than happy to fill Leo in on later. Worse, Lewis would go through with it; of that, Leo had no doubt.

Len might have doubted the depths of their father's cruelty, might have protested, if only in his mind, in the hopes of changing their father's mind, but then Len always did have the softer heart.

Especially, as much as Leo hated it, where their father was concerned.

"Do we understand each other, son?" Lewis asked, putting a hand on Leo's shoulder – a paternal gesture twisted into an act of dominance, of possession, rather than of any affection.

"Yeah," Leo spits out. "I read you loud and clear."

It was fine: Lisa and Mick would go to Len, and Len would recruit Barry and Ray and everyone else, and they'd come to rescue him the second they figured out where he was.

He'd just have to play Len a little more closely than anticipated for a little longer.

He could do that.

He was pretty sure he could do that, anyway.

"Good," Lewis said, not removing his hand. "Because I've got a plan that needs your – special expertise."

Leo pressed his lips together.

Forget about whether he could do this. He would do this.

"I'm all ears, Dad," Leonard said to his father. "What's the job? What skills do you need?"

"Skills is probably the wrong word," Lewis mused. "You never did have any skills other than cringing away from me, did you?"

What was that supposed to mean?

Leo's confusion must have been evident, because Lewis laughed and his grip tightened on Leo's shoulder until the point of pain.

"Like I said, son," Lewis said. "I've been remembering a lot of things, these last few years in prison. And skills or no skills, I think you've got something that I can use."

His smirk widened into a maniacal grin of triumph.

"Ain't that right, Lionel?"

No.

Not that.

Anything but that.

The name they hated most, the name of that empty and forgotten boy, the one they'd tried so hard to bury the ghost of, the one whom no one loved and no one cared for or thought about or knew existed, not since their mother died.

Or so they'd thought.

But that wasn't exactly true, now, was it?

Leo stared at their father in horror. He should have realized – should have expected – he never even considered –

Of course Lewis Snart knew about them.

Of all people, he had the most right to know: he'd been there in the hospital when they'd been born, he'd signed off on their birth certificates, he'd taken the two of them back to his home.

No amount of hiding, no clever tricks, no bribes or computer viruses could erase that knowledge.

And if he knew –

All those years of hiding. All those years of taking each other’s' place, of Len bearing the scars of abuse so that Leo wouldn't have to, of Leo just as scarred by the endless neglect, all those jobs, all those sacrifices, all those fights –

Lewis had known.

He just hadn't cared.

One son was all he needed, after all; one son was all that was convenient for him to have, and it was one son he'd helped make them into.

It was their own decision, yes, and they loved playing each other so much that they would have done it no matter what -

But he was where the trauma around it started.

He was the one who'd turned it from a game into survival.

And now, all these years later, he'd emerged from whatever dark hole he should have rotted in and seen that the Leonard he had raised, the Leonard he’d wanted, the thief par excellence, the kleptomaniac, the supervillain, the killer with nightmares, the soft heart frozen over – all his work, all due to him, all forced upon them by him -

Now, after all that, he didn't have any more use for that Leonard.

No, now he wanted the other Leonard: the one Len and Leo had created together through pain and suffering and deprivation, the one born of other's sacrifice, the one who had the space to go straight, to pursue his passions, to finish college, to be free to do as he wished.

To be free of Lewis.

And now Lewis wanted Leo.

Leo, who was enraged.

"That ain't my name," he said, and his voice was cold enough to burn stars.

Lewis backhanded him.

"Your name is whatever I say it is," he said, casual as if he were remarking on the weather. "I gave it to you, and only I can take it away, whatever nonsense you might've done with changing your name by the law."

"My name," Leo said again, ignoring the pain and quickly forming bruise, "is Leonard."

Lewis barked a laugh. "You know that's a name I gave you too, right?" he jeered. "But sure, son, have it your way. I know you're not the thief – anyone watching you could've figured that out. Your reflexes are slow and you don't have the confidence to do a proper stick-up; it was pathetic to watch."

So what if Leo wasn't a good thief?

He didn't have to be. That was the point.

"Now get up," Lewis added. "We have a job to plan. Unless you care less about your sister than you do your name...?"

Wordless, Leo got up.

Len sat down.

"What do you mean, you're having trouble tracking him?!" he demanded. "You designed the goddamn gun, Ramon; I know you know how to pinpoint its location."

"It's not as easy as all that," Cisco protested.

"You tracked me with it, didn't you?"

"You were using it! I've set up a city-wide tracking system, but I haven't picked up a single downward spike in temperature anywhere –"

"Nothing," Barry reported, appearing in a burst of lightning. He was panting lightly, suggesting that he'd pushed himself past the limits of even his ridiculous speed. "I've been through the streets twice; not a sign of him or the van you describe. He must be underground or inside somewhere."

"He can't just be gone," Ray said from where he's been pacing for the last hour. He was shining like a lamp, unable to contain the spike in his powers due to sheer worry-fueled adrenaline, but there was nothing he could use them for right now. He'd mastered throwing light beams and was working on using his light as a means of propulsion to fly, but while they'd theorized that he might have the ability to use his light powers as some sort of advanced scanning system – comparisons had been made to both echolocation (but with light) and super-vision (and associated puns about supervising), and there had been perhaps gratuitous misuse of the line about "everywhere the light touches" from The Lion King – but he hadn't managed it yet.

He'd been too busy to properly practice the ability, something he was clearly regretting now.

It didn't matter, though. If Barry couldn't find Leo, and Cisco couldn't find Leo, then they were dealing with something – different.

Len still thought a new supervillain seemed like a likely option for the culprit, but he was starting to suspect that it wasn't that. Mick's injuries had been somewhat worse than reported – he'd left the hospital AMA, only to collapse again once he reached STAR Labs, where Caitlin was now treating him – and if it had been a supervillain looking to catch a supervillain, then why not take Mick as well?

Maybe this was personal.

"I'm going to go ask some contacts of mine some questions," he decided.

"Won't that tip people off about there being two of you?" Cisco asked.

"I don't fucking care," Len said, and found that it was true. Leo was more important to him than Leonard would ever be – that's how this whole mess started, after all, back in the beginning.

It had always been about protecting Leo.

And no matter what it cost, Len would find a way to protect him now.

Unfortunately, most of his contacts had no clue about anyone gunning for him – no need to confuse them with details – but it didn't matter. Len was going to keep going down his list until someone told him something.

Even if it meant –

There was a small neighborhood of Keystone that Len always avoided. It wasn't a great area – pretty run-down – but it was out of the slums and moderately respectable, with a decent school for children and a possible way out of poverty if you worked hard and were lucky. The Families left it largely alone, despite the thriving sex work industry centered there, considering it a neutral area.

Len had helped broker that deal himself, at some considerable personal cost.

People had thought, at first, that he was getting something out of it – jokes regarding sex workers had been made at his expense – but when the years passed and he avoided the area like the plague, his work on behalf of that neighborhood was seen not as a measure for personal gain, but of unlikely sentimentality.

The neighborhood was, after all, home to one of the best known and most well-protected domestic violence relocation shelters in the Gem Cities.

(Leo always did say that Len was the one with the soft heart.)

Len never went there.

Not for anything.

He went there now.

(For Leo, he would do far more than anything.)

The neighborhood had been even more poor and unwanted, years and years ago, so it had been easy enough for an infusion of some serious (mostly illegal) cash to enable the shelter to buy the land for a song during one of the housing crashes. What houses and shops were still functioning and could pay rent, even minimal, did so, and helped restore the shelter's coffers; those that were empty and abandoned were redistributed to those who needed them: women fleeing from abusive husbands, husbands from wives, children from parents, people of any gender or sexuality but the norm from those who did not understand, or any mixture of the above.

The shelter had originally expected people to move out of the area when they no longer needed the help, but they hadn't. They'd stayed, even as they flourished, and helped pay for more houses, more apartments, and for a neighborhood watch strong enough to do what the corrupt or indifferent police would not.

They protected their own.

When Len came to the neighborhood, they watched him with a wary eye: he was dangerous, they could tell just by looking at him, and this neighborhood had no love for dangerous men.

"I want to speak with the head of the shelter," Len told the first one that stopped him, a woman half a head shorter than him but with eyes of steel.

"Why?" she asked bluntly. "Looking for someone?"

Len's face twisted up in a grimace of pain.

"Yes," he said. "But I doubt I'd find him here. I just need to know if – if she's heard anything. That's all. Then I'll leave."

The woman, whose name he did not ask, and which she did not share, waited to receive confirmation that he would be allowed in before letting him pass onwards, and Len waited with her in silence. He wasn't sure if she'd get that confirmation: there was a reason he did not come here.

After all, he was dangerous, and this neighborhood had good reason to hate dangerous men. Why should he be exempted?

And yet –

He needed to come here now, to ask. This shelter took in everyone who needed it, rich or poor, and some of those who came here were those with connections to every branch of power in either Central or Keystone: politicians and Families and more.

There was a chance, however small, that they might know something that would show him the way.

He was willing to break his vow never to come here for that chance.

For Leo, he would do anything.

More than anything.

The woman checked her phone when it buzzed. "Okay," she said, not softening even in the slightest degree. "You can go."

Len nodded and continued past her. He could feel her watching him as he went, and her eyes were not the only ones he could feel on his back as he climbed the shallow steps to the old armory, that massive squat building that no one had wanted when it fell into disrepair and which had now been converted into the main offices of the shelter - a bomb shelter and a place designed to resist a siege, all in one.

The first stop for anyone seeking aid, and the final stop for those that sought to abuse the shelter's offerings.

Len hoped he would be considered the former.

The head of the shelter had been beautiful in her youth, with soft dark hair that she'd once dyed even more black and dark eyes that always seemed wet and hurt but somehow warm, and she was beautiful still today - hardly more than fifty years old, with hair streaked with silver that she didn't bother to dye, the faint traces of Asian features more noticeable now that she no longer hid them with layers of makeup, and the same big eyes that were hurt no longer –

But they were still warm.

"Leonard," she said with a smile, reaching out her arms to him, but taking no offense when he instinctively shied away from her. "My little man."

Len shuddered. "I'm not your anything," he said, but he couldn't make his voice as sharp as he would have liked.

He never could, with people he cared for.

"I know," she said, and her voice was sad, though the warmth was still there. "You aren't. Not anymore. But won't you at least say it's good to see me?"

Len would rather not.

But he came here as a supplicant, and there was no harm in telling the truth when it served his purposes.

"It's good to see you," he said. "Marie."

#leonard snart #leo snart #len snart #beginning of wisdom #my fic

14 notes · View notes

captainlenfan · 5 years ago

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New Post has been published on http://websiteshop.network/episode-435-qa-with-robb-and-nicki-28-2/

Episode 435 – Q&A with Robb and Nicki #28

http://robbwolf.com/2019/07/12/episode-435-qa-with-robb-and-nicki-28/

We’re back with more of the Q&A you crave! Episode 435, Q&A #28

Submit your own questions for the podcast at: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

If you want to see the video for this podcast, be sure to check out our YouTube channel.

Show Notes:

1. Overeating On Keto [2:08]

Steve says:

Hi Rob,

I don’t want to take too much of your time. But going Keto for me has found me doing exactly what I feared I could do. I have been Paleo for five or six years and so has my wife. We have no kids at home so grains and junky carbs are not and issue or even a temptation. I am in the middle of doing the keto masterclass, which I am savouring because I have been making some mistakes.

I am 50 years old and work out regularly doing either mixed kettlebell workouts or if I do weight and resistance training at the moment I like to do whole body workouts 3 X a week and can mix in some cardio in between. I have kept fit most of my life, my goal is as I age to stay lean and keep mobile. Pretty simple goal.

We live in Perth in Western Australia so we have great weather and lots of sun. I work as a gardener in a private school, a job I love doing as I’m outside and moving all day, not as hard as say some sort of construction worker but that can happen on a given day just not every day.

Coming from eating paleo the transition for me has been pretty easy. As I went low carb and increased the fat I was eating my wife liked the sound of it so she hopped on board. She is doing great and in fact better than me. We aren’t really that worried about measuring ketones at this stage, it has been more about getting the diet right.

My issue is, I love the food. For some reason it has made me hungrier. Stocking our fridge and cupboards I made sure that we had all we needed and I wanted to see what I liked to eat also.

So I have blown it on all sorts of things. I have had days where I ate too much thickened cream, one tub has 800 calories and it is so easy to eat. I have blown it on nut butter and blown it on cheese. I can’t believe it.

At first it was wrapping my head around the fat content. I think I get it now. But I have put on body fat, which is so annoying. It’s not a train wreck but I feel like I am in a rut now and it’s hard to get out. I don’t want to quit because I can see and have felt the benefits. It’s just with the fat content and my physiology there seems to be no room for error.

I listen to your podcast and since listening I have gone to the ketogains website and worked out my macros. I was still tracking somewhat but some days I may have blown it by 5 or 6 hundred calories.

I have come so close to quitting as for me it seems to have been an easy way to get fat rather the leaner.

I’m not sure that you can help and not sure what else that I could tell you. Diet wise I have intermittent fasted for 3 or more years with differing protocols. Doing 16 – 20 hours is pretty comfortable. I workout in the mornings and often don’t eat until lunch time or when I get home from work.

My diet hasn’t changed too much except I have eaten cream, which I am now over. Adding more fat to my meals. Cooking in butter eating nuts and doing other keto style things. Apart from that my diet is still pretty primal. I love veggies. I have for years done a version of Mark Sisson’s big ass salad. Which would be my daily staple. Evening veggies could be broccoli with brussel sprouts maybe some Kale and mushrooms. Also we do milk Kefir but I try to keep that to a minimum.

If you have any suggestions that would be great. Are there others that have had this sort of issue, going keto has made them fatter?

Really enjoy your podcast and thanks for all of the really useful info that you have put out. I have also read your books.

Best regards

Steve

2. What’s Up With Fiber & Kids? [8:58]

Rory says:

As part of restoring my own gut health, I’ve used prebiotic fibers in various doses based somewhat on Grace Liu’s advice, and I’m curious if and when supplemental fiber would be beneficial for my daughter?

Again assuming that she started off at a disadvantage because of the antibiotics, it seems to follow logically that prebiotic fiber would help her gut bacteria develop, and increase her overall health and resilience.

Is that actually logical?

And are there any cautions? Is there a certain dose that’s age-appropriate, or do I just slowly increase until she has digestive upset?

Should I mix fibers in order to feed a variety of bacteria, or are there certain fibers that are optimal for a young gut (i.e. what would a cavebaby be most likely to eat chew on for fun?).

3. Tips For Increasing Testosterone [13:07]

Mads says:

Hey Robb,

In a previous Q&A, you talked about how muscle gain/hypertrophy is caused by calorie surplus and progressive overload. You also mentioned that gaining muscle is, without a doubt, easier if you have High testosterone. Calorie surplus and PO is easy, but how do I increase my testosterone? You mentioned that there are a number of different tactics that you can use?

My testosterone is not low, but definitely not high either. I’m 27 and my testosterone is 640 ng/dL and my free testosterone is 16.36

4. SHBG Elevated On Keto/Carnivore [19:47]

Eoin says:

Since switching to keto I’ve noticed an increase in SHBG levels which brings down my free test. Total test has stayed high normal but was wondering how functional it is with the free portion bound up. DHEA is a bit low too. I feel great all in all but was just wondering what your thoughts are on that

5. Are Chicharrones (pork rinds) a Healthy Snack? [22:47]

Isaac says:

Hi Rob,

Chicarones (pork rinds): are they a healthy snack?

I’ve heard you indirectly mention them on the podcast some time ago, but I wasn’t able to infer whether your opinion is favorable or cautionary.

I’m an ultra-runner, and during peak training season will spend about 20 hours per week running. In the bad old days I would top off my calories with a gigantic bowl of cold cereal in the evening, or an enormous serving of lentils and rice. But then I got woke, started monitoring my blood sugar, and started looking for low-carb options to fuel. I’m already having two salads each day, huge amounts of veggies, and as much meat as I can stomach. So I’m just looking for some calories to fuel the movement.

So are pork rinds okay? I avoid the flavored variety – the bags I buy just say “fried pork skin” on the ingredients list, and I dip them in sour cream. The best part is how easy it is to get an extra 1000 calories. And the flavor.

Am I headed towards clogged arteries? Are pork rinds actually healthy in the way that bacon is healthy…?

Thanks!! Love the show.

-Isaac

After submitting my question about whether pork rinds are an acceptable snack, I realized that Robb’s answer might be ‘we’d need to see your lab work’…

So, in case it is relevant (and in case my question is selected for the show), here are some details. (I’d be glad to share the rest of the lab results, if they’re relevant.) Thanks!

*****

Cholesterol, Total: 249 mg/dL

HDL: 71 mg/dL

Triglycerides: 71 mg/dL

LDL-Cholesterol: 161 mg/dL (calc)

Apolipoprotein A1: 186 mg/dL

Omega 3 (EPA+DHA) Index: 7.1 %

Omega 6 / Omega 3 ratio: 3.7

EPA/Arachidonic Acid Ratio: 0.4

EPA: 3.0 %

DHA: 4.1 %

Lipoprotein (a): 99 nmol/L

Apolipoprotein B: 107 mg/dL

Nonesterified Fatty Acids (Free Fatty Acids): 0.12 mmol/L

LDL Particle Number: 1149 nmol/L

LDL Small: 116 nmol/L

LDL Medium: 229 nmol/L

HDL Large: 5144 nmol/L

LDL Pattern: A

LDL Peak Size: 225.5 Angstrom

HS CRP: <0.2 mg/L

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Transcript:

Download a copy of the transcript here (PDF)

Robb: Welcome back, wife.

Nicki: Hubs.

Robb: What’s new?

Nicki: A lot.

Robb: I always love asking that, because we just spin in the same four walls all day long.

Nicki: So, you know everything that’s new?

Robb: We have nothing new. Well, we’re in the process of packing, getting ready to move.

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kids are out of school.

Robb: Kids are out of school. So we’re swimming, and the kids are walking the dogs around on leashes, and basically torturing the animals. Nicki’s been watching the wild kingdom that is our backyard, and our cat slaughtering all of the baby birds in the backyard.

Nicki: We have this wonderful nest, a robin nest up in the tree, and I’ve been watching the parents come and feed the babies, and then yesterday morning there were no parents.

Robb: Silence.

Nicki: It was silent, and I think our cat slayed the whole family.

Robb: The cat’s been eyeballing this thing for probably a week, and I think he just waited for the baby birds to get fat enough to make it worth his while to climb the tree.

Nicki: Those ones I was particularly attached to, because I was watching them every day in the morning.

Robb: Oh, so the cat was pretty attached to them also.

Nicki: All right, let’s jump in on our questions. Okay. Let’s see. Our first question this week is from Steve. He says, “He keeps stuffing up and it’s driving me crazy. Hi, Rob. I don’t want to take too much of your time, but going keto for me has found me doing exactly what I feared I could do. I have been paleo for five or six years and so was my wife. We have no kids at home, so grains and junky carbs are not an issue or even a temptation. I’m in the middle of doing the keto masterclass, which I’m savoring, because I’ve been making some mistakes.

Nicki: 50 years old, workout regulAarly, doing, either mixed kettlebell workouts, or I do weight and resistance training. I like to do whole body workouts three times a week, and can mix in some cardio in between. I’ve kept fit most of my life and my goal is, as I age, to stay lean and keep mobile. Pretty simple.

Nicki: We live in Perth, in Western Australia, so we have great weather and lots of sun. I work as a gardener at a private school, a job I love doing, as I’m outside and moving all day. Not as hard as some sort of construction worker, but that can happen on any given day, just not everyday. Coming from eating paleo, the transition for me has been pretty easy. As I went low carb and increased the fat I was eating, my wife like the sound of it, so she hopped on board. She’s doing great, in fact, better than me.

Nicki: We aren’t really that worried about measuring ketones at this stage, it has been more about getting the diet right. But my issue is I love the food. For some reason, it has made me hungrier. Stocking our fridge and cupboards, I made sure that we had all we needed and I wanted to see what I liked to eat also. So I’ve blown it on all sorts of things. I’ve had days where I ate too much thickened cream, one tub has 800 calories, and it is so easy to eat. I’ve blown it on nut butter and blown it on cheese. I can’t believe it.

Nicki: At first, it was wrapping my head around the fat content, but I think I get it now. But I have put on body fat, which is so annoying. It’s not a train wreck, but I feel like I’m in a rut, and it’s hard to get out. I don’t want to quit, because I can see, I have felt the benefits. It’s just with the fat content and my physiology, there seems to be no room for error.

Nicki: I listened to your podcast, and since listening I’ve gone to the Ketogains website and worked out my macros. I was still tracking somewhat, but some days I may have blown it by 500 or 600 calories. I’ve come so close to quitting. As for me, it seems to have been an easy way to get fat rather than leaner. I’m not sure that you can help me, and I’m not sure what else I could tell you. Diet wise, I have intermittent fasted for three more years with different protocols. Doing 16 to 20 hours is pretty comfortable. I work out in the mornings, and I often don’t eat until lunch or when I get home from work.

Nicki: My diet hasn’t changed too much, except I’ve eaten cream, which I’m now over. Adding more fat to my meals, cooking in butter, eating nuts and doing other keto style things. Apart from that, my diet is still pretty normal. I love veggies. I have for years done a version of Mark Sisson’s, Big Ass Salad, which would be my daily staple. Evening veggies could be broccoli with brussels sprouts, maybe some kale and mushrooms. Also we do milk, kefir, but I try to keep that to a minimum.

Nicki: If you have any suggestions, that would be great. Are there others that have had this sort of issue where going keto has made them fatter? Really enjoy your podcasts, and thanks for all of the really useful info that you’ve put out. I’ve also read your books. Best regards, Steve.”

Robb: You know, it’s funny when we were going through this, when I saw stuffing it up, I thought it was going to be a sinus issue. Do you have any thoughts on this? Like shooting [inaudible 00:04:30]

Nicki: The thing is he didn’t mention protein at all, and he seems pretty focused on the fat, which as you talk about in the keto masterclass, fat is a lever. Protein is first, because it’s the most satiating macronutrient. You know, he says he’s hungry, so I’m wondering if he’s not getting enough protein.

Robb: Right, right. That’s kind of my first thought as well. The protein leverage hypothesis. It’s so hard to unpack this stuff, because a lot of people, if they come from a kind of a traditional western diet, they shift to low carb or even paleo, but let’s just say low carb. Instead of being on these carb roller coasters all the time, you just get this nice, even energy, even blood glucose levels. Whether it’s ketone fueled or not, it’s just like you’re not on the ups and downs. Generally, they notice that they’re not as hungry. But I think that that can kind of give way over time to being low protein.

Robb: Again, with that whole protein leverage hypothesis idea, whether you eat low carb or low fat, if you eat adequate protein, you’re probably going to be pretty good, you know, all other things being equal. But if you’re skinny on the protein, then your body is going to stimulate hunger and you’re going to tend to eat more food. There is kind of a reality that one of the dangers of kind of keto eating is that the bulk of the food is pretty calorically dense, you know? I mean, you could go pretty crazy on plain sweet potatoes or something like that. You know, I mean, just the calorie density is not any-….

Nicki: An extra wedge of cheese, depending on how you measure a wedge.

Robb: Right, yeah, wedge. Yeah.

Nicki: Is a significant number of calories.

Robb: A significant chunk of calories. So the protein would definitely be a thought. An additional thought, he seems to be kicking the bulk of his calories to later in the day. So I would, following a lot of Bill Lagakos’ work, and things that we’re learning around time restricted eating, I would try shifting more of the calories earlier in the day. All things being equal, it seems like people generally do better with that.

Robb: Then one final piece, is thinking about your electrolyte intake, in particular, sodium. So Tyler and Luis shot me an interesting paper the other day. So, there’s a lot of folklore in the keto world, which I kind of alluded to, that we get this kind of appetite suppressing effect while in ketosis and while fasting and stuff like that, and there’s definitely truth to that. But, when ketone salt had been studied, kind of head to head with ketone esters, it’s interesting, the esters produce higher levels of blood ketones, but they do not have an appetite blunting effect, not the way that ketone salts do.

Robb: Now, this is totally speculative, but one of the key features of ketone salts is they have a shit load of salt in them. We’ve often kind of joked that, you know, when people are like, “Man, I feel great using ketone salts.” It’s because they’re actually getting a decent wack of sodium, in particular, in addition to the other electrolytes. So, I would really be fastidious on protein, and then also make sure that you get at least that five grams per day of sodium specifically-

Nicki: Especially because you’re in a warm climate, you’re outside all the time, you’re … yeah.

Robb: Yeah. So those are some biggies in that. So I guess the three are be on point with protein, make sure that you’re getting your electrolytes addressed, and then finally, try shifting more of the calories earlier in the day, versus this later in the day eating schedule.

Nicki: Okay. So Steve, do all that, and then report back.

Robb: Ping back and let us know. Yep.

Nicki: Okay. So our next question is from Rory. “What’s up with fiber and kids?” Rory says, “As part of restoring my own gut health, I’ve used prebiotic fibers in various doses based somewhat on Grace Liu’s advice, and I’m curious if and when a supplemental fiber would be beneficial for my daughter?

Nicki: Again, assuming that she started off at a disadvantage because of the antibiotics, it seems to follow logically that prebiotic fiber would help her get bacteria develop and increase her overall health and resilience. Is that actually logical? Are there any cautions? Is there a certain dose that’s age appropriate? Or do I just slowly increase until she has digestive upset? Should I mix fibers in order to feed a variety of bacteria? Or are there certain fibers that are optimal for a young gut? I.e. what would a cave baby be most likely to eat or chew on for fun?”

Robb: Man, that’s a lot going on there. So, I think I’ve mentioned the Sonnenberg Lab a couple of times. I got to speak with Erica Sonnenberg at the event that Akil Palanisamy puts on each year with UCSF. They’ve done so many different things, but just consuming fermented food, this was one of the studies. Folks were consuming fermented food and they looked at their gut microbiome profile, the diversity, and the, you know, various ratios before and then during, and after the intervention of adding fermented foods like kimchi and sauerkraut, and stuff like that.

Robb: What was interesting is that the gut diversity increased while consuming the fermented food, but it wasn’t any of the bacteria that were part of the fermented food. It’s been understood for a long time, or at least somewhat understood, that that bacteria doesn’t necessarily play a role in populating the gut, at least not longterm, but it seems to tune the immune response, and perhaps creates an environment that’s more amenable for other organisms to occupy the space.

Robb: So that’s an interesting thing. It seems a little bit more holistic, and kind of leaves all the information processing up to the gut and the ecology of the gut, instead of trying to, you know, have this notion that we’re going to pinpoint, you know, fix anything that’s going on there. We’ve talked about this in previous episodes, supplementation with prebiotic fibers, it seems to be a little bit of a mixed bag. Some people do great with it, some people do terribly. The point about having a really diverse mixture I think makes a lot of sense.

Robb: Garden of Life, like Dr. Perlmutter’s prebiotic fiber, is a really nice spectrum. It has acacia in it, and lemon and orange peel pulp. It just has 20 different things in it. So, something like that could potentially be something that you add to maybe some apple sauce or something like that. I would probably keep the doses a little on the smaller side. I don’t know that I would really want to run a GI, you know, pressure test on that. But those are the things that I would noodle on with all that stuff.

Robb: If you’re doing white potatoes, cassava, white rice, going through the whole process of cooking it, chilling it, you know, improving the resistant starch profile, I think that stuff makes sense. But I would be a little bit careful doing outright supplementation beyond that. Do you have any additional thoughts?

Nicki: I got nothing.

Robb: Okay. Yeah. But our kids love both kimchi and sauerkraut. They eat it. If we put it out, they will eat it. We just sometimes, in putting out the meal, forget to, but most kids will gravitate towards that pretty well. So I think that that’s kind of a nice, simple baseline that you can have that-

Nicki: Just get the mild one.

Robb: Yeah, just get the mild one. Yeah, yeah. Every once in a while I mess up and get the red lid. Even though Sagan has a pretty spicy palateYup.

Nicki: Alrighty. Let’s see. Our next question is from Mads. Tips for increasing testosterone. “Hey, Rob. In a previous Q&A you talked about how muscle gain in hypertrophy is caused by calorie surplus and progressive overload. You also mentioned that gaining muscle is, without a doubt, easier if you have high testosterone. Calorie surplus and progressive overload is easy, but how do I increase my testosterone? You mentioned that there are a number of different tactics that you can use. My testosterone is not low, but it’s definitely not high either. I’m 27, and my testosterone is 640 nanograms per deciliter, and my free testosterone is 16.36.”

Robb: Man, this is a good question. So a young guy, it’s-

Nicki: His testosterone is lower than my dad’s.

Robb: Yeah, who’s 70.

Nicki: 70.

Robb: Yeah, yeah. Which he’s just kind of a stud, so you’re-

Nicki: Well, no, but, I mean, also, I know you’ve talked before about how our parents and grandparents generation, as a baseline, had higher testosterone than-

Robb: Yeah, Kirk Parsley has some numbers that he quotes that, my grandparents’ generation, both men and women, appeared to have testosterone levels about three times on average what we’re seeing today. So, yeah, I mean, it’s probably not optimal from a recovery standpoint. This is the thing, again, we don’t really know why this is changing. Is it xenoestrogens? Is it a change in the gut microbiome? Is it all of these things?

Robb: The stuff that can definitely help, usually something that looks kind of akin to a lower carb diet tends to help, because people lose body fat. It’s interesting, on the testosterone story, specifically with men, being super lean is antagonistic towards testosterone. So once you get below about 10%, maybe 8%, as a baseline, your testosterone will tend to start dropping because of some stress response issues.

Robb: Some people run leaner and high testosterone, but this is, again, you know, kind of generalization. But then once you start cresting up above maybe about 14%, 15% body fat, you have enough fat mass, which contains an enzyme called aromatase, which can convert the testosterone into estrogen. The interesting kind of downward spiral with that is the brain doesn’t sense testosterone levels, it senses estrogen levels.

Robb: So with estrogen levels are high, the brain says, “Oh, we’re good with testosterone, I don’t need to stimulate luteinizing hormone, and, you know, ping the Leydig cells to, you know, release the precursors and co-factors involved with the whole testosterone production cascade.”

Robb: So someone who is overweight will have low testosterone, which tends to feed into overweight, which then elevates their estrogen levels, which suppresses testosterone production at the brain. Then even if they go and get some sort of testosterone replacement therapy, if the doctor is ham-handed with this, they just give them a big huge dose of testosterone, which further suppresses indogenous testosterone production.

Robb: So, with someone like this, some things like zinc citrate have been shown to be pretty effective, about 50 milligrams per day. You have to be careful with doing that consistently, because it can deplete your copper levels.

Nicki: So when you say careful doing it consistently, like once a week? Every other day?

Robb: You could do it maybe four or five days on, and then take four or five days off, and or you could use a supplement like Jarrow’s zinc citrate, which comes with copper, five milligrams copper. So, that’s something to do, is to make sure that you’re supplementing with that. If your body fat levels are north of about 14, 15, if they’re in there, then I would try to do some things to get leaner and see if that improves testosterone levels.

Robb: Sleep is going to be a huge factor. So, what time are you going to bed? What time are you waking up? What’s the sleep quality? Completely black room.

Nicki: Getting in bed before midnight.

Robb: Earlier is better. Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: As many hours asleep before midnight as possible.

Robb: Yup, yup, ideally. Which is harder in the summer months, depending on where you are, and what latitude you’re at. But improving sleep, improving body composition. Those are the places that I would look first, and I would really dig into the diet and lifestyle features first and figure out what if any bump you can get from that.

Robb: Only then, if we aren’t seeing favorable changes, do we start working with a knowledgeable functional medicine doctor, like anti-aging doctor. Starting with things like Clomid and some mild aromatase inhibitors and stuff like that to try to goose endogenous production first. Particularly someone that’s 27, you do not want this person getting into a, you know, a testosterone replacement therapy scenario.

Robb: I guess one other question is for Mads, has he ever suffered a significant traumatic brain injury? Sometimes you may not be aware of that, but if you played youth football, if you played hockey, if you fell off of a trampoline. So this could be something too that is part of the sleep piece. If sleep seems to be pretty good, but, you know, everything isn’t really kicking over, then there can be some sleep studies, there can be some brain imaging and some testing to look at what’s going on between the pituitary and the other elements of the story. So that’s kind of getting in another layer.

Robb: It’s going to be awhile, but we will have some material that’s going to really help people unpack this stuff in a completely systematic process, because there’s so much shitty information on this and it’s so confusing and you need a lot of nuance. There is never a one size fits all approach on this, other than maybe sleep better. That’s about the only one that, you know, that’s going to benefit virtually everybody. But occasionally, you have these outliers of people who have a particular type of depression or mania and they actually benefit from certain periods of sleep deprivation.

Robb: So again, there’s an exception to fucking everything. This is why when people just paint everything with these broad brush strokes, there’s just seemingly an exception to everything. So yeah, I know that I was kind of all over the map on that, but it’s a lot of stuff. We’ll be doing some work with Kirk Parsley in the future to get some materials so that people can really navigate this story in an effective way.

Nicki: All right. Let’s see. Our next question is on sex hormone binding globulin elevated on keto carnivore, and this is from Ian, Ian. I’m not sure how to pronounce your name. Ian says, “Since switching to keto, I’ve noticed an increase in sex hormone binding globulin levels, which brings down my free test, total test, or free testosterone. So total testosterone has stayed high normal, but was wondering how functional it is with the free portion bound up? The AGA is a bit low too. I feel great, all in all, but I was just wondering what your thoughts are on that.”

Robb: Yeah, and so the previous question, I should’ve mentioned the sex hormone binding globulin story as well. It’s interesting, generally when insulin levels go down on a relative basis, we tend to see sex hormone binding globulin go up. What’s unclear about that, is it’s somewhat similar to thyroid, specifically T3, decreasing on low carb, because you need more thyroid hormone to process carbohydrate. If you’re eating fewer carbohydrates, thyroid decreases, but is that clinically significant? We just don’t really know.

Robb: Another piece of this whole kind of androgen story, and again, this is true whether you’re male or female, is that you may have a particular level of a hormone that may look kind of low, but you may have particularly high receptor site density or receptor site affinity. So a little bit of the hormone goes a long way. The flip side, is that you could have quite high hormone levels and low receptor site density and or affinity, and so you’re still not getting, you know, an effective kind of story.

Robb: I’m not entirely sure how to fully unpack that, doing some side of full body radio immunoassay to determine what your receptor site density is. Receptor types change moment by moment too, they come online and offline all the time. So yeah, I mean, I guess the best answer that I have with that is that we could play around with titrating in more carbs, start with 50 additional grams of carbs a day, stick it in the post-workout window. Do you feel better? For both men and women, do you experience better libido? For men, do you wake up with morning wood and stuff like that? Whereas, perhaps previously you did not.

Robb: If we see those things improve, then we might make a case that the insulin levels were suppressed beyond what may be beneficial. So, we may have been getting an unfavorable elevation in sex hormone binding protein or globulin, whatever they’re calling it these days. So, those are some things to play with on this. These are the, you know, last 10% things for most people that we have to devote some time to unpack.

Nicki: Okay. Let’s see. Our final question this week is on chicharrones.

Robb: Cha, cha, cha.

Nicki: From Isaac. “Hey, Rob. chicharrones, pork rinds, are they a healthy snack? I’ve heard you indirectly mention them on the podcast some time ago, but I wasn’t able to infer whether your opinion is favorable or cautionary. I’m an ultra runner and during peak training season we’ll spend about 20 hours per week running. In the battle days, I would top off my calories with a gigantic bowl of cold cereal in the evening or an enormous serving of lentils and rice. But then I got woke, started monitoring my blood sugar and started looking for low carb options to fuel.

Nicki: I’m already having two salads each day, huge amounts of veggies and as much meat as I can stomach. So I’m just looking for some calories to fuel the movement. So are pork rinds okay? I avoid the flavored variety, the bags I buy just say fried pork skin on the ingredients list and I dip them in sour cream. The best part is how easy it is to get an extra thousand calories, and the flavor. Am I headed towards clogged arteries? Or are pork rinds actually healthy in the way that bacon is healthy? Thanks. Love the show, Isaac.”

Nicki: He says, “After submitting my question about whether pork rinds are an acceptable snack, I realize that Rob’s answer might we’d need to see your lab work.” So then he has his cholesterol and some of that stuff.

Robb: That’s doing some diligence. We don’t have an LEO. Oh, do we? No, we have lipoprotein, ApoB. Oh, he does, yes. LDL particle is 1149, that looks phenomenal. Quick triglyceride, HDL ratio looks great. C-reactive protein is tiny. Okay, cool. Those numbers we’ll put in the show notes.

Robb: So, this is one of these funny things. So, Rhonda Patrick, who I think is great, but pork rinds have been one of the things that she’s just gone after. She’s like, “Oh, it’s just still unhealthy, you know? There’s no nutritional value there.” Which I mean, there’s not a lot of vitamins, there’s probably not a lot of minerals particularly, but it is a really interesting source of collagen. When you’re in this kind of lower carb, unprocessed food world, there’s not much that’s crunchy. You’ll grab a piece of ice just to be like, “Oh, man, I want some sort of crunch.”

Robb: We’ll do some jicama thin sliced every once in a while. But you just kind of, you miss that crunch, and chicharrones are phenomenal for that. Typically, they’re cooked in pork fat. I guess you could make the case that maybe some of that stuff is producing some oxidized cholesterol. But I was just reading some stuff recently that people in ketosis, their liver preferentially identifies lipo proteins with oxidized cholesterol and removes them from the system.

Robb: So, it’s kind of an interesting story, where even though cholesterol levels, possibly even lipo protein levels may go up under a ketogenic or low carb diet, your body also seems to be more savvy about removing the offending particles that appear to be the most problematic. So, it’s kind of, you know, is that a wash? Is it a net win? A net loss?

Robb: With the option of always modifying my position in the future, I would say, in general, I can’t really see pork rinds in the context of a keto carnivore type diet being the least bit problematic. The cool thing here is that Issac has done the diligence of doing some good blood work that actually answers some questions. Even just glancing at it, it’s kind of like, okay, we’re pretty good to go. We don’t have any type of wacky discordance, we don’t have hidden insulin resistance.

Robb: There’s a few other things we could take a peek out if we wanted to. But from reading between the lines, it sounds like he’s looking, feeling, performing well, but he’s just kind of curious about like, “Hey, is this one thing that I’m throwing down the pie hole going to crush me?” So, I would just repeat this blood work, probably once a year or something like that, to just use as a baseline. Maybe at some point, additionally doing a coronary calcium, just so you’ve got that in your back pocket, and we can use that again as a baseline.

Robb: The CIMT can be handy also, but it takes a very skilled practitioner to do the CIMT well. So those are a little bit of a mixed bag and they’re a little more variable than the coronary calcium. But beyond that it seems good. You know, I will make a plug for the Epic pork rinds. They have a barbecue flavor, a sea salt and vinegar and salt and pepper.

Nicki: Salt and pepper is really good.

Robb: Yeah, and the barbecue one, the kids … It literally can-

Nicki: They have a baked one too.

Robb: Yeah, they do have a baked one, which I like less, honestly. I like the ones that are fried in pork fat. But either one of the flavors, but mainly the barbecue flavor will provoke the girls into a fist fight, practically, as they get down to the bottom of the bag. Which I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but they’re good, they’re tasty.

Nicki: The dog likes them too.

Robb: The dog definitely likes them too.

Nicki: The bag comes out and he hears it, and he’s right there sitting, pleading.

Robb: So Isaac, good question, and good on you for doing some diligence on your blood work. It’s incredibly frustrating when people spend time and money to go get an assessment that answers nothing. This is another area that we’re going to be dipping our toes into to help people make better decisions around the lab work that they’re choosing, why they’re choosing it. So keep your eyes open for that too.

Nicki: Making sense of it once they get it.

Robb: Yeah, because literally, 90% of the time, 95% of the time, people do blood work and they’re more confused by what is ordered than otherwise. It’s because it’s just not enough to really make a definitive call in general.

Nicki: All right. That was our last question for the week. Thanks everyone. As usual, if you have questions, you can submit those at Robbwolf.com on the contact page. What else?

Robb: Most of my online activity currently is over at Instagram at dasrobbwolf.

Nicki: D-A-S-R-O-B-B-W-O-L-F.

Robb: That’s it. So, thanks for the awesome questions. You guys are fantastic, and-

Nicki: We’ll be back next week.

Robb: We’ll be back next week. We may be a little bit hit and miss between now and August, mid August, because we’re going to be moving and stuff like that. We’re going to try to bank some of these so that we stay ahead of stuff. It’s possible that life may just grab us by the shorthairs, so in demand that that doesn’t happen. But we will do our best to stay on top of. Yup.

Nicki: All right. Thanks guys.

Robb: Bye.

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

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Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

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captainlenfan · 5 years ago

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New Post has been published on http://websiteshop.network/episode-435-qa-with-robb-and-nicki-28/

Episode 435 – Q&A with Robb and Nicki #28

http://robbwolf.com/2019/07/12/episode-435-qa-with-robb-and-nicki-28/

We’re back with more of the Q&A you crave! Episode 435, Q&A #28

Submit your own questions for the podcast at: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

If you want to see the video for this podcast, be sure to check out our YouTube channel.

Show Notes:

1. Overeating On Keto [2:08]

Steve says:

Hi Rob,

My issue is, I love the food. For some reason it has made me hungrier. Stocking our fridge and cupboards I made sure that we had all we needed and I wanted to see what I liked to eat also.

I listen to your podcast and since listening I have gone to the ketogains website and worked out my macros. I was still tracking somewhat but some days I may have blown it by 5 or 6 hundred calories.

I have come so close to quitting as for me it seems to have been an easy way to get fat rather the leaner.

If you have any suggestions that would be great. Are there others that have had this sort of issue, going keto has made them fatter?

Really enjoy your podcast and thanks for all of the really useful info that you have put out. I have also read your books.

Best regards

Steve

2. What’s Up With Fiber & Kids? [8:58]

Rory says:

Is that actually logical?

And are there any cautions? Is there a certain dose that’s age-appropriate, or do I just slowly increase until she has digestive upset?

Should I mix fibers in order to feed a variety of bacteria, or are there certain fibers that are optimal for a young gut (i.e. what would a cavebaby be most likely to eat chew on for fun?).

3. Tips For Increasing Testosterone [13:07]

Mads says:

Hey Robb,

My testosterone is not low, but definitely not high either. I’m 27 and my testosterone is 640 ng/dL and my free testosterone is 16.36

4. SHBG Elevated On Keto/Carnivore [19:47]

Eoin says:

5. Are Chicharrones (pork rinds) a Healthy Snack? [22:47]

Isaac says:

Hi Rob,

Chicarones (pork rinds): are they a healthy snack?

I’ve heard you indirectly mention them on the podcast some time ago, but I wasn’t able to infer whether your opinion is favorable or cautionary.

Am I headed towards clogged arteries? Are pork rinds actually healthy in the way that bacon is healthy…?

Thanks!! Love the show.

-Isaac

After submitting my question about whether pork rinds are an acceptable snack, I realized that Robb’s answer might be ‘we’d need to see your lab work’…

So, in case it is relevant (and in case my question is selected for the show), here are some details. (I’d be glad to share the rest of the lab results, if they’re relevant.) Thanks!

*****

Cholesterol, Total: 249 mg/dL

HDL: 71 mg/dL

Triglycerides: 71 mg/dL

LDL-Cholesterol: 161 mg/dL (calc)

Apolipoprotein A1: 186 mg/dL

Omega 3 (EPA+DHA) Index: 7.1 %

Omega 6 / Omega 3 ratio: 3.7

EPA/Arachidonic Acid Ratio: 0.4

EPA: 3.0 %

DHA: 4.1 %

Lipoprotein (a): 99 nmol/L

Apolipoprotein B: 107 mg/dL

Nonesterified Fatty Acids (Free Fatty Acids): 0.12 mmol/L

LDL Particle Number: 1149 nmol/L

LDL Small: 116 nmol/L

LDL Medium: 229 nmol/L

HDL Large: 5144 nmol/L

LDL Pattern: A

LDL Peak Size: 225.5 Angstrom

HS CRP: <0.2 mg/L

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Transcript:

Download a copy of the transcript here (PDF)

Robb: Welcome back, wife.

Nicki: Hubs.

Robb: What’s new?

Nicki: A lot.

Robb: I always love asking that, because we just spin in the same four walls all day long.

Nicki: So, you know everything that’s new?

Robb: We have nothing new. Well, we’re in the process of packing, getting ready to move.

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kids are out of school.

Nicki: We have this wonderful nest, a robin nest up in the tree, and I’ve been watching the parents come and feed the babies, and then yesterday morning there were no parents.

Robb: Silence.

Nicki: It was silent, and I think our cat slayed the whole family.

Robb: The cat’s been eyeballing this thing for probably a week, and I think he just waited for the baby birds to get fat enough to make it worth his while to climb the tree.

Nicki: Those ones I was particularly attached to, because I was watching them every day in the morning.

Robb: Oh, so the cat was pretty attached to them also.

Nicki: An extra wedge of cheese, depending on how you measure a wedge.

Robb: Right, yeah, wedge. Yeah.

Nicki: Is a significant number of calories.

Nicki: Especially because you’re in a warm climate, you’re outside all the time, you’re … yeah.

Nicki: Okay. So Steve, do all that, and then report back.

Robb: Ping back and let us know. Yep.

Nicki: I got nothing.

Nicki: Just get the mild one.

Robb: Yeah, just get the mild one. Yeah, yeah. Every once in a while I mess up and get the red lid. Even though Sagan has a pretty spicy palateYup.

Robb: Man, this is a good question. So a young guy, it’s-

Nicki: His testosterone is lower than my dad’s.

Robb: Yeah, who’s 70.

Nicki: 70.

Robb: Yeah, yeah. Which he’s just kind of a stud, so you’re-

Nicki: Well, no, but, I mean, also, I know you’ve talked before about how our parents and grandparents generation, as a baseline, had higher testosterone than-

Nicki: So when you say careful doing it consistently, like once a week? Every other day?

Robb: Sleep is going to be a huge factor. So, what time are you going to bed? What time are you waking up? What’s the sleep quality? Completely black room.

Nicki: Getting in bed before midnight.

Robb: Earlier is better. Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: As many hours asleep before midnight as possible.

Nicki: Okay. Let’s see. Our final question this week is on chicharrones.

Robb: Cha, cha, cha.

Nicki: Salt and pepper is really good.

Robb: Yeah, and the barbecue one, the kids … It literally can-

Nicki: They have a baked one too.

Nicki: The dog likes them too.

Robb: The dog definitely likes them too.

Nicki: The bag comes out and he hears it, and he’s right there sitting, pleading.

Nicki: Making sense of it once they get it.

Nicki: All right. That was our last question for the week. Thanks everyone. As usual, if you have questions, you can submit those at Robbwolf.com on the contact page. What else?

Robb: Most of my online activity currently is over at Instagram at dasrobbwolf.

Nicki: D-A-S-R-O-B-B-W-O-L-F.

Robb: That’s it. So, thanks for the awesome questions. You guys are fantastic, and-

Nicki: We’ll be back next week.

Nicki: All right. Thanks guys.

Robb: Bye.

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

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