#rnm s5 finale spoilers

[the-awful-falafel]

Alright, watched the S5 finale.

I have... a lot of mixed feelings, specifically about how they handled the fallout of Rick and Morty’s relationship. I’ll just say it outright, Morty felt really OOC with his sudden exaggerated codependence for Rick. Like, look back at how little Morty seemed to care about Rick being sent to galactic prison in the season 2 finale, as well as all the times he has tried to be more independent from Rick, and now he’s full on crying and following Rick around like a lost puppy because Rick is leaving to spend time with some crows? I get that they sort of reconciled shortly before Rick left, but what the fuck?

Not helping matters was the fact Morty’s character development across the entire series pretty much amounted to nothing, and he practically regressed into a full-on reset, his residual confidence/competence aside. Like... just watch Morty in the Vat of Acid episode compared to S5E9 (hell, watch him in the Mr. Nimbus episode and Planetina episode this season) and tell me any of this feels consistent with where they seemed to be headed before. What makes it more offensive is that Morty did have some established codependence in his relationship with Rick, explaining why he kept going on adventures and sometimes enjoying Rick’s company, but it was never to this weird clingy extent, and it was previously justified by Morty being socially isolated and easily manipulated, meaning the codependence actually decreased the more confident Morty got. I found it quite funny they framed Nick (Morty’s “rebound”) as worse than Rick when Rick has done equally (if not worse) bad things to Morty in past episodes, and right after Morty learned to “cut [Nick] out of his life” he just ran on back to Rick with practically no self-awareness from the narrative. They even acknowledged Rick and Morty’s relationship as toxic but seemed to underplay / “both-sides” it into a lesson of trusting and respecting each other (ignoring that Morty is a child and Rick is an adult and that the relationship will always be inherently unequal, and the core dysfunction has never been about trust issues) plus they shrug at the idea of holding Rick accountable for like, any of his abuse of Morty? And instead used it to make us pity Rick because he’s the one who had an epiphany about how fucked it is (which he later kinda backtracked on as well so the writers could easily reunite them)?

As someone who was thoroughly enjoying Morty getting “cockier” and standing up to Rick, as well as him getting more unstable and independent from the abuse, I was expecting the culmination of this arc would be Morty snapping and ditching Rick for good as Rick is forced to realize what his actions have turned his grandson into, as well as having to actually humble himself and apologize directly for everything before Morty was even willing to consider forgiving him and letting him back into his life, but... nope. They inexplicably decided to make them equally codependent (when Rick was always the horrifyingly clingy one before), making it yet another “abused person fixes/forgives their abuser” narrative with the gross implication that Morty was outright bred for it so forgiveness was inevitable. It’s so "easy” in a way that leaves really disturbing implications about abusive relationships and it’s overall a massive letdown of this arc they were building up. I can’t even imagine them fixing this via character development in future episodes because they already had all the pieces lined up for Rick and Morty to have an epic fallout and they somehow fucked it up anyway. This just confirms to me that the writers are too scared of breaking the status quo when it comes to main character dynamics, so they would rather backpedal and romanticize a self-admitted toxic relationship founded on a 70-year-old man traumatizing and abusing his teenage grandson than, like, follow through with the character trajectories and consequences they themselves set up.

The only thing stopping this finale from being an outright dud to me is Evil Morty, Evil Morty, Evil Morty. Dear lord, his characterization, his speeches to our Rick and Morty, and his ultimate plan (which he accomplished and survived to escape into the multiverse afterward) were fucking amazing though and just reinforced everything involving him as my favorite arc in the series, so he singlehandedly kept the finale (or at least S5E10) as good overall for me. The only change is I wish our Morty had actually gone with him and it hadn’t been a lie because I loved their interactions this episode (and am still clinging to my BROTP), but oh well I can leave that to the fanfics lol

Overall, S5E9 was an unfortunate 4/10, maybe a 5/10 at best. S5E10 was a 10/10, rocks fall, Evil Morty wins, gg.

[the-awful-falafel]

is it wrong that I kind of want to write a fix-it fic with this premise because I was thinking of that too lol

anyway like. "morty goes with evil!morty and they go on brotp adventures across the new multiverse" aus when tho.

[angrycowboy]

i dunno who hollier think he’s fooling with that interview but a lot of malex shippers saw that gazebo model in 4x01 and alex say “my ideal roswell” and went MALEX IS GETTING MARRIED THERE.

[the-awful-falafel]

tbh i hate how everyone is on Rick's side just because he showed character development, i think this is a breaking bad situation where everyone will stick with the main character (even though they've done awful things) because, well, it's the main character. It's like a fucked up toxic relationship between the audience and Rick, evil Morty was 100% correct in all his motives, even if his actions were fucked. At least they were temporary (hopefully), unlike literally any other rick

Yeah, Rick has definitely softened to a degree and I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of him getting redeemed, but from the way he's getting praised across the fandom you'd think he just underwent a full-blown redemption arc, rather than just half-teased the beginning of one. I can't see his recent "niceness" as being all that impressive in the grand scheme of things-- not only is he still exploiting Morty's forgiving nature to not fully confront how much he has damaged him + continues to damage him, he still hasn't faced any serious long-term consequences for his abuse of his family, or apologized for his worst actions in a way that shows he'll actually meaningfully change. Like, the fact he only came back to the family after his relationship with the crows fell through, and then brushed off Beth about him immediately resuming his concerning dynamic with Morty, says it all.

Rick doesn't seem entirely willing to confront the root of his dysfunction within the family, either-- he seemed more eager to return to a comfortable status quo than anything, and he really poorly deflected away from a lot of the (accurate) accusations of his character that Evil Morty brought up. I think people are just seeing Rick's very tragic backstory and acting like this retroactively redeems him / makes him forgivable compared to other Ricks, when in my opinion it just... doesn't really change much about our understanding of his character? Like, our Rick is still observably as horrible as most Ricks to begin with, based on how he treats countless others (especially on adventures) and how cruel and manipulative he can be, and the context of him being genuinely attached to his loved ones and suffering trauma from his original wife+daughter dying just makes his possessive, abusive, and negligent treatment of his current loved ones even worse to me. This brand of cruelty comes specifically from the fact he "cares" in his own toxic way, like many abusers-- it's not an inherently redemptive quality that makes him worth coddling, and nothing implies he was a great person before his tragedy, either.

Our Rick's clearly starting to lean towards redeeming himself after all this time, and I want him to be better, but it's going to be a long-ass road to come off as convincing, and it shouldn't involve downplaying his actions or being "rewarded" or "healed" with forgiveness from his victims, especially from those who he's outright manipulated the kindness of in the past. It's frankly just disturbing to imply he's owed those things regardless of context, anyway. (TBH, the finale's treatment of Rick and Morty's relationship and acting like they're somehow healthier now is enough for any future redemption arc built off of these episodes to put a really, really bad taste in my mouth regardless, but that's another topic.)

And yeah, Evil Morty might definitely be, well, evil, but he hasn't really done anything much worse than the average Rick. And at least Evil Morty's atrocities are a means to an end (him finally freeing himself from the multiversal cycle of abuse+enslavement) rather than a cyclic way to stave off boredom and wallow in traumatic self-pity like most Ricks. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Evil Morty mostly mellows out now that he's finally free and got what he wanted.

[the-awful-falafel]

🤔

[the-awful-falafel]

Oh gosh yeah, there was a really unpleasant vile reset of Morty’s character which felt slimy to see because of how much Morty was developing as his own person and how it was setting up for a split from Rick but then they had to make it rick and morty 100 years I guess. It felt extremely uncomfortable for Morty to feel so dependent and that he needed rick to survive despite how much he had clearly grown. It makes all character development null which I feel is weak writing

"Slimy" is a good way of putting it. Like, we spent literally the whole series up to this point showing how Morty's growing a spine, no longer putting up with Rick's abuse, and trying to be his own person in a way Rick actively punished him for, and this was their best idea of resolving a series-long conflict?

The moment Rick leaves with the two crows along with a vague "what we had was toxic and unhealthy" (which is such an understatement and shouldn't even have been Rick's line to deliver), not only does Rick completely dodge any consequences for his treatment of Morty, Morty has a complete codependency-fueled breakdown and practically crawls after Rick in a way that allows Rick to put in zero work to earn his grandson's forgiveness once he returns, in a way that was so utterly, painfully regressive and clearly the writers just backpedaling the entire conflict to keep to the status quo. (And with the revelation/handwavey justification that Mortys are engineered to be like this, the fact the show still tries to frame this as heartwarming and a fresh start between the two of them becomes utterly horrifying.)

Yeah, sure, I can buy that Morty is a forgiving kid by nature. I can even buy that Ricks (not our Rick, but most Ricks) specifically clone/engineer Mortys to be like that, because it's an easier personality type for them to exploit and makes a horrific amount of sense considering what we've seen of the Citadel so far. But the existence of Mortys like Evil Morty shows that that trait is not some unshakeable instinct that they're doomed to regress to, nor an easy reset button that can be hit at any time-- it's a personality trait that can be worn down over time through character growth and sheer jadedness, which is what seemed to be happening to our Morty during the past several seasons. He was becoming confident, more distant from Rick, more resentful of the shit he puts up with from everyone around him, even as he was still trapped within the cycle of abuse and still acquiescent enough to enjoy Rick's company. Most of the time he came off as bottling up his trauma rather than being forgiving, to be honest. He's definitely tried being forgiving and empathetic towards Rick before, and Rick, rather than be redeemed through it, nearly always manipulated and took advantage that quality to punish Morty or get a free pass for his shitty behavior.

So while I could buy our Morty being saddened by Rick leaving, even missing him to some degree because of how abuse can leave you with complex feelings, especially if you had many "good times" with your abuser... the fact he completely fell apart and started chasing after Rick, as well as immediately forgiving him for everything once he saw his tragic backstory, felt so disturbing and inconsistent based on what we've seen of Morty so far. It basically made their entire fallout with each other, as well as Morty's development throughout the series (to not see Rick as a hero, to see past Rick's excuses for his behavior, to prioritize his family's well-being over Rick's, to resist Rick's controlling clingy bullshit, to not need Rick to find happiness and to in fact find relief in his absence) completely and utterly pointless. Like, what's even the message here? What was the purpose of any of it?

It's very weak and shitty writing to render such a large chunk of a protagonist's characterization null and void, and just feels like they didn't want to confront the sheer extent of what Rick has done to Morty in favor of making ~trust~ and ~forgiveness~ the answer, even though that was barely the tip of the iceberg as to what was wrong with their relationship. Our Rick being slightly nicer to Morty is him passing a very low bar and getting praised for it as far as I'm concerned, since it really seems like they slipped straight back into their old dynamic otherwise, just in a "honeymoon phase" for lack of a better word. Like, it's not like Rick caring about Morty has stopped him from abusing him before. Morty was so happy that Rick was back that he couldn't even get himself to set proper boundaries like Beth tried to get him to do, for fuck's sake (and yes, I know the joke is that it was a side effect of the aging serum, but it was treated way too casually for comfort). This romanticized and exaggerated codependence, the character regression of Morty to avoid addressing what Rick has actually done to him, and the harmful "abused child fixing/healing their abuser through selfless love/forgiveness" narrative, even after they established that Morty forgiving Rick can't even be trusted to be of his own free will and is exactly what Ricks want, is just... really, really disgusting to me.

[the-awful-falafel]

Am i the only one who doesn‘t see why people say Morty was so degraded as a character 😅 i mean sure the „i refuse to do that i‘m just desperate to get back together“ line was dumb, but it was just a joke, Rick literally explained it was basically Morty‘s midlife crisis talking: as soon as he‘s 14 again he would be less codependent and that‘s exactly what happened. He started setting boundaries and telling Rick he won‘t be with him anymore if he‘s not honest with him. Him supporting and forgiving Rick for now because he has a lot of empathy is in character for him but it does not and should not mean every bad thing Rick has done is just forgotten and that Morty is fully reset and healed. And despite the writers commentary, I really do think that they know this, I don‘t think this is an indication of Morty‘s character growth being tossed out. He‘s still going to snap eventually and Rick will still be held accountable. Nothing that happened made me think otherwise, it‘ll all happen in time. I can‘t see them just glossing over fucked up things like the vat of acid

Not really sure about everyone else's reasons, but the reason I felt like Morty got degraded/done dirty is mostly due to how needy, dependent, and clingy he was written towards Rick in the S5E10 opener (not even really the midlife crisis thing, which I know was just a joke, but more just in general), in a way that felt downright disturbing considering his solo development the rest of this season. At bare minimum they should have given Morty a few more weeks before he missed Rick enough to try and mend things with him (because I agree with you, he's forgiving enough to at least try, but he shouldn't be so forgiving he's going to grovel over it like he did here). Show him enjoying his own solo adventures with Rick's portal gun, going to school like a normal kid, surviving by himself, just something that doesn't imply that he's doomed to fall to pieces without Rick around. Like... when was Morty being desperate/needy enough for Rick's company that he'd attempt to emotionally blackmail Rick into coming back ever built up as part of his character? If it's due to the fact that Rick was the one who unexpectedly owned up to his abuse and left (which I acknowledge could change Morty's reaction), why did Morty's characterization still feel so exaggerated and specifically designed to shit all over the independence that they've been exploring in his character up to this point, and implicitly justify both his codependent relationship with Rick and the continuation of the status quo?

It also felt like the finale wasn't really respecting the sheer extent of Morty's abuse when it came time to address it in S5E9, which is bizarre since it was meant to be the episode where his and Rick's conflict reached a fever pitch and they split apart, so you'd think the core problems would be addressed... more clearly? Instead, it muddled their relationship as a weird, both-sidesing "okay but what if they BOTH had a lot to learn" allegory while also giving Rick a complete softball in his culpability by having him be the one to realize that their relationship is toxic (in a super broad way that noticeably didn't bring up any specific abuse he had done to Morty), therefore he must leave with the crows and inadvertently deny Morty (or the narrative) the opportunity to truly hold him accountable for anything. And even that character development on Rick's part gets regressed barely a few minutes into the next episode, but since Morty missed him so much, Rick doesn't have to do anything else besides the bare minimum to earn forgiveness! Status quo restored, hooray!

Yes, I know they tried to show it's not a complete regression since Morty is setting boundaries and stuff, saying stuff like "I don't want to do this anymore if you're not honest", but it came off as... rather weak to me, tbh. Not only was the buildup unearned, it didn't sound that different to how Morty tried to set boundaries and "invent honesty" in season 4, and that didn't hold up in the long run, either. Rick has always caved to a certain degree of Morty's wishes/nagging, even from the earliest seasons, so it's how he handles Morty's outright defiance to his ego/control over the relationship that is much more revealing about him as a person (like in Morty's Mindblowers and Vat of Acid). Rick being somewhat nicer to Morty in these episodes just doesn't feel like a significant enough improvement to justify how quickly the narrative forced them back together. Morty's forgiving nature felt uncomfortably utilized, too, like they were simultaneously acknowledging it as a fucked up trait "bred" into him to facilitate Rick's abuse, but also trying to have it both ways by painting his unconditional forgiveness of Rick as the first step in Rick realizing his mistakes and the two of them working to become true partners. If that was what they were going for, I'm sorry, but they executed it very, very poorly and left a lot of harmful implications with how it ends up framing abusive relationships in the process.

Like, the way they wrote it, I don't get the impression this is the start of Rick and Morty's relationship improving at all. I get the impression this is the start of them pretending their relationship is improving (and maybe genuinely trying for a while) but more and more of the fucked up stuff gets brushed under the rug and they start falling into the exact same patterns as before once "honesty" and "respect" stop working, because abuse built on such a one-sided inescapable power dynamic isn't fixed just by deciding to be nicer to each other.

If this discomfort is intentional, if they're planning on this "equal partnership" thing to eventually crash and burn since it's built on such an unbalanced, consequence-free foundation, bringing the conflict to a head in a later season in a way that respects our Morty's growth and finally holds Rick accountable in a way he can't depend on his victims' forgiveness to get out of, I'd... still view these episodes as ultimately a regressive cop-out, but I'd be slightly more tolerant of it, at least, since it would feel more intentional? The finale's excellent characterization of Evil Morty and how he called out Rick's abuse without much pushback indicates some self-awareness at least, so I'd like to have some faith this will be handled better in the future, but the behind-the-scenes writer commentaries are... very worrisome. I guess I'll have to wait and see what they do in Season 6 onward, but how they handled this particular conflict will probably leave a bad taste in my mouth for a while.

[the-awful-falafel]

I'd probably find the premise of Rick and Morty separating sadder if the show hadn't spent the entire series up to this point showing just how abusive, toxic, and one-sided their dynamic really is, as well as how Morty is entirely capable of thriving on his own if it weren't for Rick sabotaging him. Really, I can't help but think that Rick ditching him is a great thing for Morty in the long term (short-term grief and codependency pains aside, which is understandable considering mixed feelings are common w/ abuse) so the show's going to have to try a lot harder to tug my heartstrings or convince me I should root for them teaming up again.

[the-awful-falafel]

(R&M finale cold open spoilers)

Holy shit. That's why Morty was taking the portal gun? From the previous promos I just thought he was trying to have his own fun solo adventures away from Rick, which would also be valid, but this is way more moral and responsible of him that just makes me feel really proud but also really bad. ;; Mortyyyy Rick's messes shouldn't have to be yours to clean up

[the-awful-falafel]

it is a real shame how Morty’s character regress after all the changes he has. while rick feels mostly the same (just with a sad backstory) and puts little effort into his 'redemption’ compare to what he has done in the past seasons.

Definitely a massive shame. It kind of feels like they just wanted to reset the main characters back to like, season 2-ish (except with more backstory), so the show contrived reasons for Morty's character development to functionally reset and for Rick's character to only marginally shift forward without facing any real consequences for his actions. It was like they realized R&M's escalating tension/conflict with each other, as well as confronting Rick's horrific abuse of Morty, would just get in the way of future episodic content, so this rapid regression/codependency-justification is all they could think of doing rather than addressing it in a satisfying, well-earned way. Considering the show is going to have 10 seasons by the time it's over, which would make this season the midpoint, I guess we shouldn't be surprised they're taking it incredibly slow, but man, I do wish they would stop resorting to reset buttons so often as well as backpedaling series-long character growth in disturbing ways when it becomes inconvenient to the status quo. Guess we'll have to see where they take this arc in the future to form a fuller opinion, but after they dropped the ball with wasted opportunities and bizarre anticlimatic regressions in this finale, as well as unsettling commentary from the writers indicating that they do not understand the problems in our R&M's dynamic enough to take it in a good direction, I'm having trouble being hopeful.

[the-awful-falafel]

Honestly, I'm glad Rick seems to be enjoying the company of his new crow sidekicks so much. Maybe he'll finally leave Morty alone.

[theclowntoon]

I really agree with this, I felt smth was off about the episode and I was even quick to think it was the evil morty part. But it was actually the main arc of the two episodes, and the Evil Morty arc actually saved it from being downright odd.

I do wish the storyline for Evil morty lasted longer as it felt it just came out of nowhere at the end but in itself it was incredible all the build up when all the truth got dropped.

Just wish that Morty was more in character as you said, although him having to deal with the portal guy may have tired him out to have a emotional moment I felt he would lash out more at least along with the crying.

And I really wish the rest of the family had more moments honestly, not much but a few? Though I know the central focus was on Rick and Morty's toxic relationship. UHHH YEAH <:)

Alright, watched the S5 finale.

I have… a lot of mixed feelings, specifically about how they handled the fallout of Rick and Morty’s relationship. I’ll just say it outright, Morty felt really OOC with his sudden exaggerated codependence for Rick. Like, look back at how little Morty seemed to care about Rick being sent to galactic prison in the season 2 finale, as well as all the times he has tried to be more independent from Rick, and now he’s full on crying and following Rick around like a lost puppy because Rick is leaving to spend time with some crows? I get that they sort of reconciled shortly before Rick left, but what the fuck?

Not helping matters was the fact Morty’s character development across the entire series pretty much amounted to nothing, and he practically regressed into a full-on reset, his residual confidence/competence aside. Like… just watch Morty in the Vat of Acid episode compared to S5E9 (hell, watch him in the Mr. Nimbus episode and Planetina episode this season) and tell me any of this feels consistent with where they seemed to be headed before. What makes it more offensive is that Morty did have some established codependence in his relationship with Rick, explaining why he kept going on adventures and sometimes enjoying Rick’s company, but it was never to this weird clingy extent, and it was previously justified by Morty being socially isolated and easily manipulated, meaning the codependence actually decreased the more confident Morty got. I found it quite funny they framed Nick (Morty’s “rebound”) as worse than Rick when Rick has done equally (if not worse) bad things to Morty in past episodes, and right after Morty learned to “cut [Nick] out of his life” he just ran on back to Rick with practically no self-awareness from the narrative. They even acknowledged Rick and Morty’s relationship as toxic but seemed to underplay / “both-sides” it into a lesson of trusting and respecting each other (ignoring that Morty is a child and Rick is an adult and that the relationship will always be inherently unequal, and the core dysfunction has never been about trust issues) plus they shrug at the idea of holding Rick accountable for like, any of his abuse of Morty? And instead used it to make us pity Rick because he’s the one who had an epiphany about how fucked it is (which he later kinda backtracked on as well so the writers could easily reunite them)?

As someone who was thoroughly enjoying Morty getting “cockier” and standing up to Rick, as well as him getting more unstable and independent from the abuse, I was expecting the culmination of this arc would be Morty snapping and ditching Rick for good as Rick is forced to realize what his actions have turned his grandson into, as well as having to actually humble himself and apologize directly for everything before Morty was even willing to consider forgiving him and letting him back into his life, but… nope. They inexplicably decided to make them equally codependent (when Rick was always the horrifyingly clingy one before), making it yet another “abused person fixes/forgives their abuser” narrative with the gross implication that Morty was outright bred for it so forgiveness was inevitable. It’s so “easy” in a way that leaves really disturbing implications about abusive relationships and it’s overall a massive letdown of this arc they were building up. I can’t even imagine them fixing this via character development in future episodes because they already had all the pieces lined up for Rick and Morty to have an epic fallout and they somehow fucked it up anyway. This just confirms to me that the writers are too scared of breaking the status quo when it comes to main character dynamics, so they would rather backpedal and romanticize a self-admitted toxic relationship founded on a 70-year-old man traumatizing and abusing his teenage grandson than, like, follow through with the character trajectories and consequences they themselves set up.

The only thing stopping this finale from being an outright dud to me is Evil Morty, Evil Morty, Evil Morty. Dear lord, his characterization, his speeches to our Rick and Morty, and his ultimate plan (which he accomplished and survived to escape into the multiverse afterward) were fucking amazing though and just reinforced everything involving him as my favorite arc in the series, so he singlehandedly kept the finale (or at least S5E10) as good overall for me. The only change is I wish our Morty had actually gone with him and it hadn’t been a lie because I loved their interactions this episode (and am still clinging to my BROTP), but oh well I can leave that to the fanfics lol

Overall, S5E9 was an unfortunate 4/10, maybe a 5/10 at best. S5E10 was a 10/10, rocks fall, Evil Morty wins, gg.

[the-awful-falafel]

This isn't aging well, lol.

Honestly, I'm glad Rick seems to be enjoying the company of his new crow sidekicks so much. Maybe he'll finally leave Morty alone.