#reference to catullus

[catilinas]

Anna Jackson, I, Clodia

[finelythreadedsky]

about to go full conspiracy theory mode and say that lucan didn't actually kill himself OR get executed, he actually just faked his own death to get out of finishing the pharsalia

[green-blooded]

apparently the recent rap beef has woken up the part of my brain that got a degree specializing in Greek and Latin elegiac poetry and i'm scouring lyrics from every rapper involved to put analytic pieces together it's a problem

[traveller-seeks-oaks-shade]

Shackled shesouls on the sea shore. Ovidian permutations led astray by Catullan regrets. Sapphic-Virginia violas and candied Holly wreaths. The rage of Calibanian Orpheus unseen in Cocteau's mirror, calm death beckoning through the wine dark ripples. Manifest desire. She's maddened, unwomanned, crouching in the attic attic attic.

[splendidemendax]

hey is your friend on bandcamp or similar? i'd like to buy a copy of this album because i desperately need to eat "black mark (ariadne)" whole

New Greek Myth EP!

My friend from grad school just released her first EP, based on Greek and Roman mythography! She's been working on this for a long time and I'm so excited for people to be able to hear the finished product!

[writers-potion]

Latin Phrases of love

Latin: Words/Phrases of Love ⋆𐙚₊˚⊹♡

Thank you all for the attention that my Latin words/phrases lists are getting! (interesting latin phrases, soft-souning latin phrases)

Here are some Latin phrases regarding love:

aeger amore: love sick

aegra amans: [lover's disease] love sick

amo: I love

amor sui: self-love

amor habendi: love of possessing

animo fractus: heartbroken

caritas: love or charity

cupido: longing or desire

cum corde: with the heart

digitulus: [little finger] the touch of a finger

digitus auricularis: the ring finger

imo pectore: from the bottom of the heart

in saecula saeculorum: [for ages of ages] forever and ever

philtrum: a love potion

potentia amoris: the power of love

vinculum matrimonii: th bond of marriage

vis amoris: the force of love

amo et pax: love and peace

amo ut ivenio: love as I find

amor et honor: love and honor

amor gignit amorem: ove begins as love

amor amnibus idem: love is the ame in all (Virgil)

amor tussisque non celantur: love and a cough are not concealed (Ovid)

amor vincit omnia: love conquers all things

amore sitis uniti: be united in love

cedamus amori: let us yield to love

cor ad cor loquitor: heart speaks to heart

cor et manus: heart and hand

cras amet qui numquam amavit: let those love now, who never loved before (Catullus)

dulce periculum: sweet danger

fide et amore: by faith and love

fortis est ut mors dilectio: love is strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6)

in omnibus caritas: in all things love

meminerunt omnia amantes: lovers remember everything (Ovid)

nihil amori injuriam est: there is no wrong that love will not forgive

nihil amanti durum: nothing is hard for one who loves

nihil esta more veritatis celsus: nothing is loftier than the lover of truth (Propertius)

non mihi, non tibi, sed nobis: not for you, not for me, but for us

redintegratio amoris: the renewal of love

serva jugum: [preserve the yoke] preserve the bond of love

si vis amari ama: if you ant to be loved, then love (Seneca)

ut ameris, amabilis esto: to receive love, be lovable (Ovid)

...and because ruined love is also love:

a vinculo matrimonii: [from the bonds of marriage] an absolute divorce

aurear compedes: golden shackles

corpus inane: body without a soul

succubus: a female spirit or demon believed to prey sexually on young men while they sleep

zelotypus: jealousy

expertus dico, nemo est in amore fidelis: I say as an expert, no one is faithful in love (Propertius - I wonder what this man had to go through to say this?)

neno in amore videt: no one in love sees (Propertius - seriously, what happened, Propertius?)

omnis amans amens: every lover is demented

res est solliciti plena timoris amor: love is full of axious fears (Ovid)

As always, happy writing.

─── ･ ｡ﾟ☆: *.☽ .* . ───

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💎Before you ask, check out my masterpost part 1 and part 2 

Reference: Latin for the Illiterati: a modern guide to an ancient language by Jon R. Stone, second edition 2009.

[artthatgivesmefeelings]

Jean-Baptiste Bertrand (France, 1823-1887) Lesbia and the Sparrow, 1875 This painting illustrates the "Complaint made to the Sparrow of Lesbie" from the collection of poems 'Carmina' written by Catullus (Verona, 87 - 54 BC). Catullus, in 25 of his poems, mentions his devotion to a woman he refers to as "Lesbia", who is widely believed to have been the Roman aristocrat Clodia Metelli, who was married to Quintus Caecilius Metellus Celer. The Latin poet Catullus from the Roman Republic was a fan of Sappho (a resident of Lesbos and therefore a Lesbian as anyone would be called if resident of the Grecian Island Lesbos), and so he named his beloved after her. Catullus was passionately in love with "Lesbia", a married woman who lived in Rome. In "Lament for Lesbia's Sparrow", he depicts a sparrow who enjoys all the attentions of his mistress, only to reveal his desire and his own jealousy in the face of the indifference of his loved one towards him.

[dwellordream]

“Young women have always been for sale. In the fifth century bc, Herodotus describes the practice of selling Babylonian daughters at a yearly auction in his Histories. He wrote:

They used to collect all the young women who were old enough to be married and take the whole lot of them all at once to a certain place. A crowd of men would form a circle around them there. An auctioneer would get each of the women to stand up one by one, and he would put her up for sale. He used to start with the most attractive girl there, and then, once she had fetched a good price and been bought, he would go on to auction the next most attractive one. They were being sold to be wives, not slaves. All the well-off Babylonian men who wanted wives would outbid one another to buy the good-looking young women, while the commoners who wanted wives and were not interested in good looks used to end up with some money as well as the less attractive women.

The Babylonian men paid a bride price, but some of their money would come back to them because the young women were given dowries, which their husbands would administer even if they could not raid it. This exchange seems odd but was not so unusual in the classical world, where women served to cement together two male-controlled families. If a married daughter died without children, her money would go back to her family, which removed any incentive to harm her.

At the time, virginity was not always necessary to a girl’s successful marriage—the Lydians prostituted their daughters to raise money for their dowries. Because of the dangers of childbirth and high rate of early mortality in ancient Greece, it was common for wealthy relatives to provide not just their daughters but also their poor relations with dowries. Athenian law even required that the State dower poor women of just passable attractiveness; teeth were all that were required. Because Athens was under constant threat from its rivals, it depended on its young women to provide it with a constant stream of new soldiers.

Classical literature is filled with accounts of creative daughter disposal. In some memorable verses of The Odyssey, the father of Penelope, Odysseus’ wife, then thought to be a widow, urges her to marry the suitor with the most gifts. Greek fathers took care not to raise more daughters than they could dower. Outright infanticide was abhorrent to ancient Greeks, but they did practice “exposure,” wherein parents intentionally left unwanted infants exposed to the elements. They believed that the gods could choose to save the abandoned children, thereby eliminating their agency while achieving their aims. Husbands were not permitted to run through their wives’ dowries but neither could the wife.

A Greek woman’s dowry yielded about 18 percent per year, and if the couple got divorced, either party could request the dowry. It was returned to a woman’s guardian or, in certain cases, kept by the husband, who paid 18 percent interest to his former wife’s guardian for her support. The wealthier the family, the more likely it was that a marriage would take place between two young first cousins. Such marriages keep money in one family and tended to correlate with periods of cultural instability, when power was held by a few important families. Cousin marriage was particularly popular among the higher echelons in Elizabethan England, the Antebellum South, and in late eighteenth- and early nineteenth-century Britain.

Greek girls who died in childhood were mourned specifically because they did not fulfill their destiny as wives and mothers. Their epitaphs make reference to their failure to marry, and the girls were quickly writ into myth. Like Persephone before them, they were considered married to Hades and dwelled, as wraiths, in the underworld.

In the Roman period, women did not fare better. Catullus sums up the Roman attitude toward marriage, writing, “If, when [a young woman] is ripe for marriage, she enters into wedlock, she is ever dearer to her husband and less hateful to her parents.”

The middle class continued to sell their daughters at regional markets throughout most European countries during the Middle Ages. For the upper middle classes, the social stasis of the period made marrying an heiress one of the only means to improve one’s social status, and it was nearly impossible to do without deception. The middle classes began to consult marriage brokers—a growing cottage industry in Europe—who would help them plot their rise, reconstruct their family histories, then help them relocate in order to achieve success in another part of the country. If a woman did marry up, she would find that she had much less control over both her body and her daily life—where she walked and even what she ate—than she had in a middle-class environment. In the upper classes, the legitimacy of heirs continued to be of primary importance, and as such women’s movements were intensely regulated.

Women were progressively more visible during the Renaissance. Increased trade created a new culture of conspicuous consumption, propped up by merchants and explorers who transported new goods through Genoa and Venice, Zanzibar and Constantinople, outward to European capitals and the known world. Newly available luxury goods made life easier and more enjoyable—tobacco, tea, coffee, silks, and spices facilitated a culture of male comfort in which wives and daughters played an important though entirely passive role. In ancient Greece and Rome women were kept mostly in the home, but during the Renaissance men put their velvet-swaddled wives and daughters on display, trotting them out in public, where they would often sit separately, saying little if anything but fulfilling a necessary decorative function. A woman’s beauty, or wealth, was most of all a statement about the social status of her presiding male, be he husband, father, or brother.

For much of the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance, sumptuary laws on food and goods defined and limited social space. By legislating who could obtain specific fabrics, foods, drink, and other luxuries, governments prevented servants and the middle classes from masquerading as aristocrats by denying them access to the materials necessary to appear richer than they were. Pre-Reformation Europeans were just beginning to let go of feudal social organization.

Though more people now lived in cities, family patriarchs had long made decisions for their large clans and were not interested in giving up a privilege that had served them so well. Daughters were married to create important and lasting connections between families. Those who could not be married off in a way that would benefit the clan were often forced into nunneries. For a noble family, sending a daughter to a convent or forcing her into spinsterhood was far preferable to tainting a family line by permitting her to marry beneath her station.

This system of dispensing with daughters worked peaceably for hundreds of years, until Henry VIII came to need a son and heir. When his attempts to have his first marriage, which had produced no sons, annulled by the pope failed, Henry charged ecclesiastical and secular legal scholars in England with finding a way to divorce his consort Catherine and marry his pregnant mistress Anne Boleyn. Their solution was divorce and breaking away from the Catholic Church. Henry began the violent dissolution of Catholic monasteries in 1536. It lasted for four years, during which the crown plundered church lands, sold them off to rich allies, and used the surplus cash to wage dubious wars in France. For wealthy young women, newly Anglican, there was an additional change, perhaps the single most significant social change women would see until suffrage. Their safe haven—the convent—was now gone.

The absence of nunneries sent numerous marriageable aristocratic young women into circulation. When once they would have been in the country, awaiting the marriages arranged for them, or preparing to enter a convent, these young girls were now brought to court, which is where they were most likely to find husbands. By the time Henry’s daughter Elizabeth I began her reign in 1558, the atmosphere surrounding marriage had a new urgency.

Elizabeth’s rule began in religious chaos after her predecessor, her half sister Mary, violently restored Roman Catholicism to England. Elizabeth spent the better part of her first years on the throne fighting for her father’s Protestantism in an effort to fend off those who wished to depose her. Her legitimacy was questioned with every decision she made, and she understood that her courtiers were her key to maintaining the throne. She tightened her control over the aristocracy by reducing its size to a new low. She stripped disloyal aristocrats of their titles or made it known they were not welcome at court.

It was against this tumultuous backdrop that Elizabeth, in an effort to form beneficial social and political alliances, began having young ladies ceremonially presented to her at court. These presentations were small affairs and limited to the daughters of Elizabeth’s most important courtiers. They took place in the queen’s “withdrawing room,” a private room, but located next to larger public rooms, where she could go with a smaller party. The girls were led from a public stateroom into the smaller adjoining room at Hampton Court palace, so that other courtiers would know who was being favored.

At the more private ceremony of presentation, the young girls curtsied to the queen. The young girls had a vivid experience of being watched and assessed, enhanced by the fact that of the roughly 1,500 people in regular attendance at court, only fifty were women. These presentations came to be referred to as “drawing rooms,” and they engendered a curious experience that blended ostentatious display with the familial and private, a mix that would continue to characterize the debutante ritual for its duration

Many of the presented young women served her as attendants and became intermediaries between Elizabeth and the wider circle of her court. They helped Elizabeth to exert control over the nobility by creating an elegant buffer between the monarch and her courtiers. In order to present a petition to the queen, one first gave it to a lady-in-waiting, along with a fee that the lady in question would determine based on her closeness with the queen. Elizabeth encouraged her ladies to charge exorbitantly for this service—not so much because they’d have some independence, but so they would have enough money to be able to gamble with her.

She also regularly rejected petitions based on their lack of generosity toward her ladies. The queen could also be capricious—Elizabeth’s ladies-in-waiting could not marry of their own volition. Elizabeth Vernon spent a week in prison (with her new husband the Earl of Southampton) for marrying without the queen’s permission. Lettice Knollys was banished permanently for marrying Elizabeth’s favorite courtier, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester. When Elizabeth discovered that another lady-in-waiting, Mary Shelton, was secretly married, she attacked her and broke her finger.

Elizabeth’s social standards and rituals persisted after her death, with queens taking over control of drawing rooms and social presentations even when there was a king on the throne. Elizabethan presentations-at-court served a very clear political purpose. Though they bore little resemblance to the feverish social theater that characterized the fully developed debutante ritual of the nineteenth century, these court presentations provided the foundation for modern debutante culture and served, too, as its myth of origin.

They show the important link between society and politics, a symbiotic relationship that only deepened as the ritual became institutionalized and spread outward to all corners of the British Empire. Elizabeth’s backroom maneuvers—quick conferences with her ladies or political advisers—provided the precedent for the many political meetings that took place at debutante parties in later centuries, and emphasized the soft power of social settings, which were controlled by women who understood that the way to power was not always hard work or even fortunate birth, but judicious conversation next to a sloshing punch bowl or quivering trifle.

The Stuart monarchs who followed Elizabeth continued the tradition of the drawing room (“with” was dropped from “withdrawing room” in the late seventeenth century), which retained its function as a matchmaking tool. Elizabeth’s successor, James I, arranged the marriage of his favorite courtier, the charming spendthrift James Hay, to Honoria Denny by granting Honoria’s reluctant father a title and royal patent. While these high-level marriages took strategy, marriage law remained chaotic. There was no legislation that defined marriage, and there were no protections for women after they were married. Rather, the absence of law meant that women might be forced into marriage by their fathers, married by capture, or tricked into marriage.

The age of consent to marriage was twelve for women and fourteen for men, and contracts were often made during the “unripe years.” It was a particularly dangerous time to be an heiress. During these years women could inherit property. Inheritance law was not clear on whether her property would become her husband’s upon marriage. Without knowing if they could control their property, many women resisted marriage.

Restrictive regulations for daughters intensified after they were wives, especially if they were considered to have broken proper codes of behavior. If a wife were to be convicted of adultery, she would lose her dowry or marriage portion and her husband could make a good case that she could punitively lose her property as well. There was no comparable financial forfeiture for adulterous men, and courts habitually disbelieved women who tried to defend themselves against claims of adultery. It is not difficult to explain widespread female acquiescence.”

- Kristen Richardson, “Marriage (Market Price).”

[fluentisonus]

another thing is that you can see this shift in attis' perception of themself & their own body as they talk through the social repercussions, like when she first wakes up all it says is "attis turned over her deeds in her own heart, and, clear headed, saw without what and where she was", and it's not until after the whole lament as she gets increasingly frantic over irreparably she's been separated from her home & society do we get: "'now, now what I've done hurts, and now, now I regret it'". the way that all the regret and disgust is entirely to do with being forced to look at yourself the way strangers see you & not being allowed to enjoy the simple fact of what you are without that perception haunting it

the thing about catullus 63 is it's not about the castration itself there's nothing wrong with the castration itself!! it's about the social consequences & alienation that result from it! attis' body has not been harmed or diminished in any way, attis is still attis, they're still whole and healthy, it's literally only the social perception of their body that has been altered. all of the regret and grief that comes of it is wholely to do with how attis' entire personhood within society has shifted without their consent & they're powerless to stop it. that they can never go home without being recategorized based on their body as an outsider. WAH.

[cin-cant-donate-blood]

I think there is something really tragic about those posts that are like "man can you imagine future archaeologists reading our posts" because I don't actually believe even a fraction of all the things we say will survive for very long.

We supposedly live in an information age where everything is recorded, and people say that once something is on the internet, it is there for ever, but this is clearly not true.

Most of the internet is managed by corporations, and when a certain website dies, there is absolutely no incentive to spend all the money necessary to preserve ecerything that was ever posted. Maybe Archive.org will have saved a lot, but it can't save everything.

Even right now internet history going back as recently as the 90s is really spotty. A lot of forums and sites are simply lost to time.

And maybe one day Archive.org will run out of money too, and everything they preserved will be lost, not in a dramatic bang like the fire in the Library of Alexandria, but with a whimper, like the many thousands of times more documents that have been lost simply because no one copied them in the few decades they had before the mold or worms or whatever else got to them.

Think of Sappho and Catullus, two of the most celebrated poets of ancient Greece and Rome respectively. Both were prolific, and both were titans, widely celebrated for their extraordinary work, long after their deaths.

Both had a single century or two where people got tired of them, and almost every single thing they ever wrote was irrecoverably lost, because books do not last forever, especially not the ones written on papyrus, which was the dominant medium at the time and has a quoted life span of about 70 years unless stored in nearly perfect conditions (desert conditions, which is why we associate papyrus with Egypt).

All we have now are a handfull of fragments of their work. They are, once again, and perhaps forever, celebrated as geniuses, but we can't ever undo that single, brief moment where the majority of their work was lost forever, not out of malice, but out of indifference.

Everything not actively, painstakingly, expensively maintained will be lost, inevitably and irretrievably. Stone carvings last longer, but they're horribly space inefficient. The invention of parchment, which can survive centuries, greatly improved things, but that too is extremely expensive compared to paper or papyrus. Modern digital storage is the same; we just made the copying process easier.

One day, tumblr will die. It is as inevitable as your death or mine. Or the death of the sun. In fact, tumblr will probably die within our lifetimes. When it dies, some things will be saved, but many will not. Some will miss it, but most will forget. Out of millions of posts, perhaps a few hundred thousand survive as jpeg screenshots on reddit, instagram, or whatever sites survive tumblr. Then, as those die, perhaps ten thousand screenshots of screenshots carry on to new social media sites, as of yet not made. And then a thousand of those survive as those sites die.

And maybe those will be the thousand best, and maybe some expert will even be able to tell you that they're screenshots of tumblr, and in a few words what tumblr was, but what even is the thousand best? Every copying act is a choice by someone who thought it was worth copying. Tastes change, and as they do, maybe one generarion's favorite is destroyed by the neglect of the next.

Tumblr isn't special. This is the future of all social media. Echos will persist, but so much will be lost.

So maybe, one day, an internet archaeologist will find your silly tumblr post about how crazy it would be if someone was reading what you said centuries from now. Unfortunately, there will be so much context missing. Maybe your post will be one of a mere hundred remaining, most of which make references to in-jokes and memes long forgotten: incomprehensible and empty. Like the statue in Ozymandias: nothing beside remains.

I'll end this with a poem from the lost poets I mentioned, and since this is tumblr, why not a gay one? Both Catullus and Sappho have their share of love poems dedicated to members of the same sex, but the partial poem known as Sappho 31 is probably the most well known. This is Edward Storer's translation:

He seems like a god to me the man who is near you,

Listening to your sweet voice and exquisite laughter

That makes my heart so wildly beat in my breast.

If I but see you for a moment, then all my words

Leave me, my tongue is broken and a sudden fire

Creeps through my blood. No longer can I see.

My ears are full of noise. In all my body I

Shudder and sweat. I am pale as the sun-scorched

Grass. In my fury I seem like a dead woman,

But I would dare...

... and that's it. The ending has never been found. Scholars think anywhere between a few lines and half the poem is missing.

[diianahive]

Avē atque valē.

(explanation below cut)

was originally supposed to be a vent art but i got happy mid way lol

the quote mains ‘hail and farewell’, a reference to poem Catullus 101, by Gaius Valerius Catullus. It is directed to his dead brother, or rather his ‘ashes’.

Full poem:

[i-was-today-years-old-when]

i learned about Gaius Valerius Catullus, also referred to simply as Catullus. A well-known Latin poet of the late Roman Republic who wrote chiefly in the neoteric style of poetry, focusing on personal life rather than classical heroes.

Catullus's poems were widely appreciated by his contemporaries, significantly influencing such great as Ovid and Virgil, among others.

However, the explicit sexual imagery which Catullus��uses in some of his poems would be shocking to most modern readers - so much so that they would hardly see the light of day in the hands of the modern conservatives.

Case in point, in the first century BCE, Catullus addressed two of his libelous critics, another poet Furius and a senator Aurelius, in a poem considered so vulgar and obscene that it was not translated outside of Latin until the 20th century.

Modern bust of Catullus

English translation of the Catullus’s vitriolic poem:

I will sodomize you and face-f*ck you,

Cock-sucker Aurelius and catamite Furius,

You who think, because my verses

Are delicate, that I am modest

For it's right for the devoted poet to be chaste

Himself, but it's not necessary for his verses to be so.

Verses which then have taste and charm,

If they are delicate and sexy,

And can incite an itch,

And I don't mean in boys, but in those hairy old men

Who can't get their flaccid dicks up.

You, because you have read of my countless kisses,

You think I'm a sissy?

I will sodomize you and face-f*ck you!

No doubt, Catullus was not the type to mince his words; he sure was a straight shooter. During his times, without worrying a bit about political correctness or the cancel culture, he could address his critics in the way that is unthinkable today, not to mention severe legal and social ramifications.

But, that was then!

Nevertheless, standing up for one’s reputation and honor, even in less than a civilized manner, would be acceptable only in the zeitgeist of ancient Rome.

[tunathena]

Just had a piece: that stuff is dense!

Maybe I will scatter some in the garden and the ghosts will flock to it like pigeons. Or indeed sparrows….. My town is an old Roman town so it could happen if I’m determined enough…

Roman bread I made today (on my Latin grammar tea towel, hehe).

[enlitment]

top 5 historical figures to name a cat after?

thanks for the great ask!

Let's see... it's a question of whether it should be purely based on how nice the name sounds or whether these figures should be cat-like in some way...

1. Porcia (CATonis)

I think that a lot of Roman names work great for cats. I went with Porcia because of how universal it is. Are you interested in Roman history? Or just happen to be really into Shakespeare? Porcia CATonis has got you covered!

2. Éléonore (Duplay)

okay, hear me out here. Calling a cat Éléonore may be a bit awkward, but you could call her Leo for short!

3. Marcus (Brutus/Agrippa/Antony...)

Not to insist on gendering cats' names, but if you want to go for a more traditionally male name, I think Marcus is a good option!

Plus, it can refer to Marcus Junius Brutus, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa or even Mark Antony (who's by the way incredibly cat-coded, if you ask me!). The list goes on of course, since it seems that you could either be called Gaius or Marcus and that was mostly it.

4. Maximilien (Robespierre)

I know Robespierre was more of a dog person, but Maximilien is just objectively a good name for a cat. You could even go for Meow-ximilien, if you want to be really extra with it. It could potentially lead to some exhausting conversations though.

5. Émilie (du Châtelet)

Look, you probably knew this was coming. A nice sounding name? Check. Feline qualities? Check. What more could you want from a cat name?

BONUS: CATullus. D'uh.

[luninosity]

Happy May the Fourth and also early Cinco de Mayo!

My publisher is having a big sale this weekend - 45% off! - and, coincidentally, I / we also have a novella release!

"As Many Stars" is part of the Regency MMM (yep - three!) trio collection, with stories by me and Ellie Thomas and Alexandra Caluen!

Mine is essentially a big hurt/comfort story, lots of big emotions, lots of love confessions, pining at someone's sickbed, all of that - it was a ton of fun to write, honestly! Plus I got to make Catullus references.

The other two stories in the Trio collection are lovely as well - luscious historical detail! - so grab that if you would like all three stories together!

I hope you enjoy!

"As Many Stars" at JMS Books (on sale!)

"As Many Stars" at Amazon

the Regency Lovers MMM Trio at JMS Books

[marcusagrippa]

randomish question for people who know more than me - i'm looking through catullus' bedspread (which i Do Not Like but needed to find a quote from) + dunn mentions this (i think?) portrait from lake garda

as a picture of catullus multiple times, and references it regularly to describe his appearance;

(^one passage. there are More and she is meaner)

don't actually remember what my original question was but. does anyone know anything else about it ? i can't find a lot online </3