#rather than longstanding fandom misconceptions

[minetteskvareninova]

Look, man. I know you have made a lot fuss about how much you hate when I get too aggressive while refuting your points, but I am sorry, I just cannot let this shit stand. And I mean, if you want to block me for something - yeah, I am pretty comfortable in saying that Hatice sultan is the hill I'd die on. Because you have said some pretty vile stuff about her in the past and I am just. Done with ignoring it. The slander is spreading to some otherwise very reasonable people. It's time to stop.

For the last time. The narrative is not validating Hatice's obsession with revenge on Hürrem. The overall idea of revenge on Ibrahim and blaming Hürrem for his death I am less sure of, especially considering the obscene amount of Ibrahim shilling after his death. After all, Ibrahim is the literal father of their golden boy Mustafa, and so the narrative does side with him to an extent. At the same time, the situation is not as clear cut as OP clearly thinks it is. The show is well aware (at least before his death) that Ibrahim was a flawed person; I know it doesn't do justice to what an absolute piece of trash he really was, but at the very least, it acknowledges his hubris. It also posits that Süleyman murdering him was bad, which... Well, is not WRONG. As I've written in a previous post, Süleyman executed his best friend based more on a vague idea of a lése-majesté than anything. Ibrahim certainly deserved the rope for other reasons, but not for some dumb shit he said in front of ambassadors. Also Süleyman was his friend and promissed him safety, which adds other layers to this act that the show acknowledges. It's true that the show seems to take the viewpoint that Şah's revenge on Hürrem is justified, even if the means she uses for it are pretty shady - which I fundamentally take issue with. Overall, I agree that the show's framing of Ibrahim's death is "off" and there's plenty to criticize.

What I don't agree with is that the show's viewpoint is ultimately as judgemental as the OP implies. Şah, Hatice and Hürrem are morally grey characters acting within their established character motivations, and I don't think the show is that interested in judging them. Hatice's arch is probably the most blatant in this; even if the show agrees with her goals (hence her more reasonable sister sharing them), it also pulls no punches in portraying her as blinded by grief and revenge. Hell, the fact that she's slowly becoming out of touch with reality is hardly subtle! And if anything her death scene is a heartbreaking (for ME, if you hate her then it's probably just a poignant reminder why) finishing touch of a relatively well-crafted tragedy of her character.

Now, do I like that this is the direction they went with her character? Of course not. I like Hatice. I didn't want her to slowly lose her mind because one of the worst men in the show got what was coming to him. I personally wouldn't take her in that direction. But the writers did, and I have to commend them for mostly walking it pretty smoothly. (Mostly - some moments, like Hatice's relationship with Nigar post-Ibrahim's death were bullshit, because this is Magnificent Century, whose every good aspect has a dozen flaws and every stupid moment has a dozen things that could be praised about it.)

"(...)she could at least leave Hurrem out of it and contemplate on her own choices in her last moments." - OP, she literally only killed herself because her crimes TOWARDS HÜRREM were revealed. What is your problem. The death scene or the arch. Her death scene is the natural conclusion of the arch, and I've just explained what is my stance on the arch. If you're point-of-view on the arch is different, then be my guest, but you literally cannot criticize that scene without criticizing the arch it concludes.

"Why didn't Hatice see reason in her last moments" - Because if she ever saw reason, she wouldn't have kidnapped Hürrem, her crime wouldn't have been discovered and she wouldn't even feel the need to kill herself. Yes, she was clearly depressed and suicidal for years, but the main reason for her killing herself when she did and in the way she did were her crimes.

TL;DR - Hatice didn't see the reason in that scene because she isn't MEANT to be a reasonable person here.

I watched Hatice's suicide scene again and I absolutely cannot feel sympathy for her. It is truly sad because she killed herself and she definitely did not deserve that ending and she wasn't a fundamentally bad person, but. Hatice girl. Even in her dying moments she was blubbering about Hurrem this, Hurrem that. No self awareness, no progression, zero moment of clarity, not even a brief one, nothing at all, purely delulu land. I do believe this is the writers' failing though. It is kind of boring and short-sighted to have Hatice so blinded by irrational hatred that she can't even reflect on her relationships with her own family in a neutral light. It would have been more impactful to have her show an iota of introspection and awareness and then kill herself anyway because what's the point, what's done is done. Like of course she's hurting for Ibrahim's death and I get that, and she is in deep depression and I get that too, but she could at least leave Hurrem out of it and contemplate on her own choices in her last moments. She didn't do that. This one-dimensional victim narrative is preventing me from sympathizing with the character even at such a moment.