#queer is a slur

[guiltguilding]

All the ppl in my feeds wishing TERFs a very unpleasant pride month when a hefty chunk of TERFs are lesbian or bisexual...

...While cheering on 'queer' content that's just heterosexual ppl acting a bit gnc...

...And talking about the need to "de-center" gays during pride month...

Yall are either ignorant or homophobic or both, and what you definitely are NOT is progressive and pro-gay rights

I wish yall an enlightening pride month

[leandra-kinard]

you could just not respond and keep the slurs to yourself. have you ever considered that? maybe a post by someone affected by the slur isn't the place to harp on why it's so hard for you to not be able to type it. you can have your opinions, you're grown and obviously not open to change. but consider respect and decorum when you decide to invalidate the feelings of marginalized people on their own fandom experiences. blocking is free, scrolling is free, be fucking decent.

Sigh. I am going to respond calmly to this one because it comes from a place of wanting to be supportive and understanding to other people's struggles.

However, I still disagree. Firstly, I've seen posts like these many times, and the logical fallacy in it has always rubbed me the wrong way. So I felt like I wanted to say something this time in the hopes of opening people's eyes to the logical fallacy. The assumption that I could do this on here was, admittedly, too optimistic.

Secondly, I understand not wanting to be faced with things that are uncomfortable to us, but that's not how the world works. And in many ways, that is good or at least neutral.

There are many things that make us - in our own personal contexts - uncomfortable, and the feelings as such are valid. But what is not - in my understanding of fairness and common sense - valid, is making your own problem (that is valid in your limited personal context) everyone else's problem.

I find that kind of behavior not only annoying and irrational but actually dangerous.

To elaborate on what dangers I am seeing in it in detail would go beyond the scope of this response, but to pick out one factor, it's dangerous because it creates the attitude and assumption that things are universally something because they are that thing to you.

That automatically creates injustices for people in wider and different contexts, and an atmosphere of anxiety and over-caution that is detrimental to human interaction.

We are all different, we all come from different social and cultural contexts. We have different personal and societal needs, different expressions of ourselves. To measure everything by one standard you automatically apply bigotry towards other standards.

This 'trend' to find offense in things and limit the ways in which we can communicate and express ourselves is so fucking detrimental to us as human beings. People preach for tolerance and acceptance but then are incapable of applying it to others when others' needs clash with one's own.

Example: the whole "queer is a slur" discourse. There are people who have VALID lived experiences with the word "queer" being used against them as a slur, often combined with physical violence; there are gay men who have been beaten up or even killed while being called that.

On the other hand, you have a mostly younger generation (but not solely) who have reclaimed the word and feel empowered by describing themselves as such; there are many neutral usages for the word as well, such as "queer theory" in academia.

So what do you do with that? Who gets to decide which side is right and which side is wrong?

If we were to apply the principle of who feels the strongest about it, who has known the most violence/discrimination in connection with the phrase, then we would HAVE to concede to the "queer is a slur" faction (and to the "ABO without dashes is a slur" faction). If there are just a dozen non-straight people out there who get literally (not over-used figuratively) triggered back to violent and abusive experiences when hearing/reading the word "queer", then we all have to stop using it, right?

Well. For some reason we (society/the LGBT+ community at large) have decided that no. We care more about the utility of the word queer in the contexts we have created than we care about the valid and lived experiences of those people. Because it HAS utility and means something positive to many people.

(Personally, I am very much in two minds about this issue and understand both positions.)

And this example is even different than the ABO one, because we are talking about "queer" with the same main meaning in the same language. It's not like "queer" means "wood shoe" in Swahili or is a company that makes knitting needles in Korea. "Queer" means the same thing, whether it's used as a slur or used as an empowering/neutral term to describe non-straight people.

Whereas ABO means a myriad of entirely different things in different languages, most of all as an acronym for completely innocuous things like the "American Board of Orthodontics" or my cited wind energy corporation. So there you even have a much more washed out and very much broadened variety of meaning and context.

So, then why is it we say "Fuck them older queers who have been hate-crimed and killed while being called this slur that we like to use to describe our identity" but don't apply it to ABO fanfiction where the meaning is completely removed from the meaning of the slur?

It's not only inconsistent, it's even going much further into the restrictive!

So no, I do not play along, I do not keep quiet, I do not simply accept it. Because it is IMPORTANT to remind people to THINK. To see context, see meaning, see intention. And to also understand that the world cannot be fair to everyone because every fairness to you is an unfairness to someone else.

We HAVE to be able to tolerate and understand that. Or else we have to succumb to tribalism and all stay in our small little niches where everyone thinks and speaks exactly like we do, and if you only fall one millimeter out of line, you have to find your own community, because you can't be part of ours anymore.

THAT is the danger in this way of thinking.

If we ban saying "abo fanfic", we have to ban saying "queer community", we have to ban Brits smoking "a fag", we have to ban Spanish speakers saying "libro (or other masculine noun) negro", and so on.

And we CANNOT do that because it creates more injustice than it initially strives to fight.

[homosexuhauls]

Unpopular radfem opinion but I actually (used to) love the word queer, referring to myself as queer, saying "hey queers" to my all gay/bi friend circle as an edgy teen, and all that jazz. It really did feel like a rebellion, a big "fuck you" to straight people who would once have used the word as an insult but now found it powerless to wield against those of us who had chosen it for ourselves. Straight people used to be shocked by self-described queers, it was very clearly a reclamation and a sign of protest.

But then, slowly and insidiously, throughout the years, "queer" changed its meaning. It stopped being a "fuck you" to straight people, a word chosen precisely for its shocking nature and subversive origins. Straight people started using it again, en masse, to refer to us. And that was okay, that was acceptable, because the word had been sanitised, scrubbed clean of its dirty origins and hung out to dry by interlopers and so-called allies. Suddenly gay (boring, assimilationist, old school, privileged) was juxtaposed with queer (revolutionary, modern, subversive, marginalised) when before they had been synonymous. Suddenly straights could be queer and corporations could be queer-friendly and gay rights became queer rights. Suddenly, the term was meaningless.

Reclamation of slurs is an important part of our journeys as individuals to overcome the prejudices we face and the hatred we might internalise. But as soon as a slur is being used by those whom it did not originally target, it's not being reclaimed, it's being mainstreamed, turned back into a mockery. Now straight people call us queer and we have no recourse. Similarly to men calling women cunts and bitches and women being told to stop making a fuss because they aren't seen as proper slurs anymore ("it's a term of endearment in Australia hahaha"). The power of reclamation, "queer as in fuck you" etc, is gone. It's dust. We're not getting it back. At this point, all we can do is relinquish the word entirely. And I can't lie, that hurts a little, because when "queer" meant something, I loved being queer.

[radfem-raccoon]

I really hate being called queer. My attraction to women isn't abnormal or strange, it's completely natural and anyone who says otherwise is just being homophobic.

[lesviolyn]

lesbianism? there's nothing "queer" about it :)

[lifewithchronicpain]

I’m sorry, but I really can’t understand how a community that insists we respect how people identify and call themselves (rightly so) feels entitled to call me by a slur I reject.

I get that people feel differently towards the word queer, but one side wants to completely erase its history as a slur because it’s easier. I don’t care if people use it for themselves, I myself tend to use LGBTQ when discussing the community. But if you insist on calling a group of people that, where a good portion don’t want to be called that, how are you any better than people who willfully misgender or mislabel people? I’m serious, and both are wrong.

I get that queer is a word that is here to stay for many people and if you want to be called that, I support you. I’m not arguing against that. But stop imposing your will on all those who still painfully associate queer as a slur by using it as a community word. It was used against me as a child, I do not identify with it and never will.

Why won’t anyone respect that?

It seems to me, many are actively choosing a word to apply to a whole community that hurts people because they just like it. How selfish is that?

[c4nonball]

Oh I really hate the “queer” community so much. A lot of people in the replies are trying to gaslight this gay man by saying that “It’s actually a very inclusive word! Don’t speak for us, you don’t represent us.”

[anotherradfemlesbian]

Why are y’all condemning same sex attraction? Why are y’all reducing it to a sort of preference or a fetish for x genitals? Do you guys realize how incredibly homophobic this discourse y’all keep parroting is? Like, I’m done with this bullshit. Enough of masculine women claiming to be butch lesbians lusting after males. Same with the army of “femmes” who want “daddies girl-cock inside 🥺”. Enough of females that went from “not being like other girls” to being the most subversive people ever because they’re now trans gay boys who wear makeup and dresses and ohhh you’re so freaking cool lol. No. And on “trans lesbians”. You’re male. You literally can’t call yourself a lesbian. Leave us alone. Move on. Get out of our safe spaces. Please, do what you need to ease your dysphoria, have fun dressing, hope you find those who love and desire you. But, if you have some decency, please, stop calling yourself a lesbian. “Trans lesbian” was used to refer to trans men who felt attracted towards females (yk, same sex attraction but one of them has dysphoria and is trans, same as transmascs). And you took that term from them. You erased our history.

But no! It’s us, the bad cis lesbians and gays. We are so so mean to you! and so transphobic for not going to bed with you, my gosh! because our bodies don’t fucking work with someone of the opposite sex!!! Don’t go telling me this is due to trauma or I’ll fucking murder you.

Trans people and us were siblings until this batch of angsty teenagers, gorged on postmodern gibberish, arrived. You’re destroying decades of activism and education, you’re insulting us with the q slur. You’re all destroying our safe spaces, our communities, twisting our reality, claiming to be part of a community you don’t belong to. You’re ignorant homophobes. You have sentenced us. Fuck off.

[faildaughtered]

LMAO

[fite-club]

i didn’t even want to go there, but y’know what? every single person who isn’t L, G, B, or T who explicitly mocks and maligns LGBT people who are uncomfortable with (or even acknowledges!) the word “queer” as a slur needs to shut the fuck up immediately.

this isn’t me saying “if you aren’t LGBT you’re not allowed to be part of or have a say in our community”, it’s me saying “people whose identities are more visible and more historically targeted probably have a more accurate say as to how words are being used against them”. i’m getting really tired of hearing nonbinary aroace teenagers declare that “gay is a slur too”, which is laughably untrue and out of touch.

“queer” did not start as an identity, it started as a negative adjective and an insult. it became an identity for many, but that doesn’t mean that some people still aren’t using it as an insult. i’m not “erasing queer identity” by acknowledging that queer is a slur, YOU are erasing queer history by outright denying the reality of many LGBT people. you are erasing the pain and trauma that people of your community went through. what’s so “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” about pointing that out?????

[bilboyagathechickenfootedhobbit]

I slept on it overnight and I’m still not sure what to do about my dad. I know one thing for certain: he will NEVER receive another picture of his grandson ever again. I don’t even know why I bothered; he doesn’t give a shit anyway. Even when we took my son back for a visit, my dad had zero interest in him. I kept sharing stuff with him because I hoped he would embrace the role of grandpa and instead he just shares pictures of my son and calls him his queer grandson. I talk to him so little that it’s almost not even worth having a talk over this. Like maybe I just stop talking to him altogether? Or maybe I call him up and explain why neither of his children are willing to talk to him and why he’s going to die with his only family being his bitch of a wife and his one friend. He’s such a sad, pathetic old man that it almost just feels like kicking him when he’s already down.

One thing is for damn sure: the wrong parent died. The only reason I reach out to him as much as I do is because I wish I still had my mom and he’s the fucking Temu version of her. Not even that. He’s the Temu version of the shitty knockoff of her.

[swagging-back-to]

sure let's call a group of a lesbian and two bi males 'a group of queers'. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that picture.

[starflesh-moth]

[virgoanmaenad]

Not be all like ‘queer is a slur!’ or anything but uhm…maybe, when referring to lgbt people, don’t just say ‘queers’? Say ‘queer people’ or ‘the queer community.’

Idk, referring to us as just ‘queers’ is kinda dehumanizing.

[hard--headed--woman]

i don't care at all if you want to call yourself queer or if you want to reclaim that slur, what i am saying is just that :

1) it isn't an identity. your only "label" can't be "queer". if no other word fits your identity than this one, then you aren't part of the community, and you are searching for a place in the wrong area. your identity is lesbian, gay, bisexual... not just "queer". always. queer just can't be the only word that describes your experience.

2) it IS a slur. i don't care if you use it or if you want to reclaim it or if you think it's a cool word and want to write it everywhere, it IS a slur, it was always a slur, it will always be a slur. erasing that and trying to lie about it is erasing our culture and history. people have been insulted with this word. this word was used in homophobic slogans. no tears for queers! see. it IS a slur. just look at what it means.

3) if you say "queer people", "queer rep", "queer books", "queer community", it is a problem. this term shouldn't be used to describe the whole community. it shouldn't be an umbrella term. it shouldn't be used to talk about us as a community. or to talk about someone in particular. us it to talk about yourself if you want, and that's all. don't use it to talk about the community in general. or to describe someone else's identity.

4) het people should absolutely never use this word. corps shouldn't use this word. medias shouldn't use this word. the way it is now the norm to use this word to talk about the community is problematic. use the acronym. they should use the acronym.

imagine if we started to use the b or c slur, the n word, the r slur, the g slur, to talk about the groups, communities, people they were made to insult. that would be problematic right ? same with queer.

[lesviolyn]

lesbian not queer.