#prot shitblogging

[beguines]

the lollards really said "if the cross of christ, the nails, spear, and crown of thorns are to be honoured, then why not honour judas' lips, if only they could be found?" and meant it to be a criticism of veneration of relics within catholicism but actually it just sounds like a pretty cool idea.

[beguines]

There’s something you’re missing. The hallmark of a good Christian denomination, or of a good RELIGION for that matter, should not be that it conforms to the times, swaying in the wind at the culture’s beck and call. A good religion remains steadfast in its time-tested beliefs while still ministering to those on the margins. So no, perhaps Catholic theologians aren’t preaching the virtues of progressive politics, but that’s not what makes a good religion or good theology. The Church has maintained its positions for thousands of years. There is truly no reason to deem it unworthy, or theologically lesser, just because our society has collectively lost its mind over the past 60 years. How bold you are to insist that the Church should center itself around you and your modern beliefs!

I want to start this reply by pointing out that it's very natural to have a visceral reaction when reading a criticism of beliefs and institutions you hold dear, so I'm not going to hold your attitude problem against you. That being said, to assert that I'm belittling Catholicism is really missing the mark. I read, post, and engage positively with a lot of Catholic theology on this blog. I practice a lot of Catholic traditions in my personal faith life, and I'm grateful to belong to a noncreedal denomination that's very open and welcoming towards those practices. You can clearly see that I engage in criticism of Protestantism as well, despite the fact that it's the faith of my upbringing to which I still belong. Protestant denominations are guilty of the same antisemitism, racism, homophobia, misogyny. The religious institutions we love should not be exempt from criticism but subjected to it all the more stringently.

The Catholic Church hasn't maintained its positions for thousands of years. Some of them? Sure, so far. But the church has reversed its position on thousands of teachings and has instituted a multitude of new practices over the millenia of its existence as cultural mores have changed. Vatican II is the obvious example, but for all I know you could be a sedevacantist. Just like people, all institutions should change with the times as we collectively learn, grow, and acknowledge our shortcomings. For powerful religious institutions, those "shortcomings" have frequently resulted in death and destruction that's difficult to even fathom. Change isn't inherently bad. It's not a betrayal of values, and "values" aren't values when what you're valuing is the dehumanization of others. It is not the hallmark of a good person nor a good religious institution to refuse to change.

There's this belief in some circles that modern "culture" is a monolithic beast, demanding that all surrender their values to the idol of Progressivism. This simply isn't true. The dominant culture neither endorses nor contributes to the end of systems of domination. Neither does liberalism. But the fact that you're so afraid of systems of domination being dismantled says much about you. I believe in economic justice. I believe in the inherent worth of all people, regardless of faith, political affiliation, race, gender, or sexuality. And if I could not reconcile my religion with those beliefs, I would leave it. You've perhaps (if you are or were a follower of this blog) seen me post about apophatic theology—the idea that we can only accurately describe God with language by saying what They are not—and I can quite definitively say that if a faith tradition follows a God they believe doesn't endorse those things, it's not God. I don't think the church should center itself around me or my "modern" beliefs. I think the church should be centered around fostering the common humanity and well being of all people, which you apparently find to be a controversial take.

The Catholic Church is helplessly constrained by the nature of its extremely hierarchical structure, which was intentionally institutionalized as a way of maintaining and wielding power by a select few. This is a criticism of Catholicism that you will see many Catholic theologians make (my mind immediately goes to Boff, but he's certainly not the only one!). The point of my post was simply this: Protestant theologians, being largely unencumbered by that repressive theological hierarchy, are the source of dynamic, engaging, life-affirming theology that you frequently don't see from Catholic theologians, who are at threat of severe punishment if they do not conform strictly to Church teaching. Both Leonardo Boff and Ernesto Cardenal have been victims of this, and Ratzinger as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was used as a brutal instrument during Pope John Paul II's papacy to silence and shame Catholics for speaking out about injustice. The lack of a formal hierarchy within Protestantism as a whole has enabled creative and groundbreaking theology to flourish in a way that Catholicism has been unable to match because of active and intentional repression, not a commitment to a nonsensical kind of traditional values that contribute to the oppression of the children of God.

[beguines]

the lollards, luther, and calvin sort of peaked ideologically at the priesthood of all believers and mainline protestantism took that nowhere.

[beguines]

With regards to your post about protestantism, what are your favourite takes/your favourite writers?

I'll list a handful of theologians with whom I'm fairly familiar. Please do not consider this an endorsement of every opinion or theological idea these people have ever had.

Dorothee Soelle (Lutheran) on Christofascism as well as her synthesis of mysticism and activism/resistance in The Silent Cry. James Cone's (African Methodist Episcopal) use of Marxist analysis in theology as well as his use of blues, Black spirituals, and folktales as theological vehicle and accompaniment. Dietrich Bonhoeffer (Lutheran) on the religionless church. Delores Williams' (Presbyterian) development of Womanist theology and her exegesis on the parallels between experiences of Black American women and Hagar in Sisters in the Wilderness. Rita Nakashima Brock (Disciples of Christ) on erotic power and her criticisms of substitutional and sacrificial theories of atonement. William R. Herzog II's (Baptist) interpretation of the parables as a form of social analysis. Thomas Müntzer's (early Protestant, and I'd like to also stress that he had some truly horrible ideas that I disagree with) vehement anti-feudalism and condemnation of Martin Luther (in Sermon to the Princes he calls him "Brother Fatted Pig and Brother Soft Life" which...go off, Müntzer).

And a fun little bonus! I'm not very familiar with Vítor Westhelle's (Lutheran) work, but in a piece he wrote (Class, Sin, and the Displaced) for Religion, Theology, and Class: Fresh Engagements after Long Silence, he briefly talks about the alienation of workers from their production as sin. He draws out this exegetical metaphor between Fordism and the story of the golden calf in Exodus. In the assembly line, workers each contribute one small part to a whole that when finished is unrecognizable as their work. In Exodus, each person contributes a small piece of jewelry or gold that is eventually melted down into the golden calf. The golden calf is no longer recognizable as the product of each person's contribution, but becomes an idol. It's a really fascinating way of thinking about the alienation of labor and commodity fetishism as idolatry. I think about it all the time.

[beguines]

i will absolutely die on the hill that modern/contemporary prots consistently deliver much better theological takes than other christian denominations. so much catholic liberation theology (and i really do love catholic liberation theology!) recycles a lot of shitty takes in a sad effort to perform apologetics for damaging dogma that's still mired in a heavily medieval set of values. you simply do not find many (any? i'm begging to be proven wrong here) catholic theologians who deliver the same level of groundbreaking thought. many of our denominations spring from the rancid, antisemitic loins of martin luther and the horrifically repressed bizzaroland of john calvin's brain, but i hope that one day our legacy is the absolutely wild subversion that so many modern protestant theologians are serving. (and on that note, fellow christians of every denomination! let us not point fingers at each other or try to behave as if combating our antisemitism is not the very necessary ecumenical work of every single one of us—it's been ingrained deeply in our religion for the majority of its existence).

this really isn't anything against catholicism! i mean, in some ways it is—i think that the catholic church by the very nature of its structure has clung very tightly to harmful, outdated dogma which has resulted in maintaining status quo positions on sexuality, gender, the ordination of women, closed communion, economics, etc. extensive work moving forward specifically institutionally on these issues has been going on for decades within christianity, and it's been almost exclusively within protestant denominations. i think it's very easy to lose sight of the ways that protestanism has drastically changed the christian landscape for the better and instead become mired in the shitshow of contemporary evangelicism and ugly churches and a shitty aesthetic.

anyways, we all know there are many horrible things about protestantism! and there are so many things i love about catholicism! veneration of the saints, marian devotion, and the longstanding history of catholic social teaching being fairly radical at times, to name a few. liberation theology has been profoundly groundbreaking, especially in the ways that it's been pioneered by working people with their boots on the ground (looking at cardenal's gospel in solentiname as a wonderful example of this). i love and look to the writings of so many catholic mystics, contemporary and historical, and have often found myself drawn to monasticism at various points in my life.

but protestantism is my home—because it was the sect of christianity i was raised in but also because it's the sect i choose, and there's abundant reason for that.

[beguines]

really feel like i should have titled that post with the side wounds resources "protestants know how to have a good time too"

[beguines]

yes martin luther allegedly posted his 95 theses on the door of the all saint's church in wittenberg on october thirty-first of 1517, but consider that the lollards nailed their twelve conclusions on the door of westminster abbey 122 years prior

[beguines]

absolutely wild how the methodist church condemned slavery at their 1780 general conference, voted to expel all slaveowners at their 1784 general conference, and then summarily walked all that back at their 1816 general conference because of the economic impact of agricultural practices that utilized slavery by more or less saying "yeah slavery is bad but it seems like we can't really do anything about that and emancipation is totally impractical 🤷‍♀️"

i think one can make a somewhat murky parallel to their approach to lgbtq issues like ordination, marriage, etc, especially considering how things have gone at their two most recent conferences. anyways go off methodist church, good on you for literally never changing.

[beguines]

Also this from Müntzer's confession. Truly a man ahead of his time and the reformation leader we needed but did not deserve.

I can very much get behind the spirit of what Martin Luther was about, but why did his theology have to be so bad? Meanwhile the perpetually underappreciated Müntzer was out there saying that you didn't need priests or an understanding of scripture to achieve faith and salvation, you could do so by suffering.