#prince lorian headcanons

[iguessigotta]

lorian 19

Intimate Moments prompts #19 - reassuring touches check my pinned post for available characters i hope headcanons are ok! i realized while writing this that my Lorian and Reader are like mirrors of each other. i'd love to play around with that some more

your (much smaller) hands on either side of his face

his (much larger) hand engulfing your hip

when you unconsciously scoot towards him in your sleep

when he curls himself tighter around your body, careful not to wake you

leaning your full weight against his side

him leaning a fraction of his weight against you in response

your hands combing through his hair, his head resting heavy in your lap

when he wakes up - he wasn't aware he fell asleep - to you tucking flowers into the intricate mass of braids you'd done while he'd slept

when he scoops you off the floor, pulling you into his arms and laughing at your surprised yelp before you melt into him

[headcanontheshitoutofsoulsborne]

Ornstein was the one who trained Gundyr and Lorian in the way of the blade, and introduced Sun worship to Lothric, when he stopped there during his search for the Firstborn. He also taught Prince Lothric how to cast magic without a catalyst.

The people revered him as a Saint, though they argued over if he was an Angel of War, or a Storm God.

[anthurak]

Random Dark Souls 3 Thoughts/Theories/Headcanons I think are interesting and/or haven’t seen discussed anywhere else:

So we all understand that the Lords of Cinder essentially represent previous Dark Souls player characters, right? That each previous ‘Age’ of Fire was basically a hypothetical Dark Souls game where a powerful undead rose up to ‘link the fire’ just as we see in the previous two games. Now let’s consider that the plot of Dark Souls 3 is kicked off (if you take a close look at item descriptions/dialogue) by Prince Lothric, who was destined to Link the Fire, refusing to become a Lord of Cinder.

Notice the resemblance?

The inciting incident of Dark Souls 3 essentially that the previous Player Character chose NOT to Link the Fire just like we have the option to do in previous games. Dark Souls 3 is basically showing us what happens if we chose the ‘Age of Dark’ ending.

The answer of which happens to be: Turns out Gwyn, or his spawn and/or the Way of White planned for this and built a failsafe into the whole ‘Fire-Linking’ system in case a Chosen Undead ever failed in their task, or worse, started DOUBTING the whole ‘using humanity as fuel to keep our precious Age of Fire burning’ plan. That being, resurrect a bunch of undead who previously linked the fire and have them link the fire again.

And it turns out they even built in a second failsafe in case those resurrected Lords of Cinder fuck things up; resurrect a bunch of undead who failed to link the fire and throw THEM at the problem.

(my theory/headcanon is that the Lords of Cinder represent player characters who completed a playthrough, while the Unkindled represent PCs who’s players quit a playthrough XD)

And I think that’s just legitimately really fun and clever for a story/formula twist.

Like for one it makes the original/Pre-SotFS ending of Dark Souls 2 where you don’t actually get a choice to Link the Fire even more poignant. The whole point of that ending was that the ‘choice’ between Linking the Fire or Not was actually pointless. That even if YOU don’t Link the Fire, some other Undead WILL. That the ‘choice’ presented to you at the end of the previous game was an illusion.

Now we find out that even if there isn’t some Undead willing to burn their humanity away for the sake of the Gods’ precious Age of Fire, the very system those gods put in place will essentially force them, or someone else, to do it.

In fact, even without taking the failsafe into account, we also actually get hints of this with Aldrich the Devourer in Dark Souls 3. As Hawkwood puts it, Aldrich was made a Lord of Cinder. Not ‘chose’, MADE to be a Lord. If you read between the lines, it starts feeling like the Way of White was essentially keeping Aldrich, this incredibly powerful undead chained up in the Cathedral of the Deep simply as a ‘backup’ Lord of Cinder candidate in case no ‘Chosen Undead’ were willing the link the fire (btw, if you’re unfamiliar with Dark Souls and feeling the urge to woobify Aldrich, do keep in mind that he was ALSO essentially a mass-murdering cannibal who devoured so many people he eventually became a horrific sludge monster. So you know, perspective and all that).

Not to mention that Lothric and Lorian didn’t just ‘choose’ not to Link the Fire, they took major steps to ensure it COULDN’T be linked by anyone else, which we get a first-hand look at in the Untended Graves. First they filled what is supposed to be a ‘starting zone’ for the game with massively overleveled late-game enemies in order to ensure any Unkindled can’t rise. And if that doesn’t work, they also broke the Firelink sword and maybe even killed off any remaining Firekeepers that may have been present at the shrine. So that even when a potential ‘Chosen Undead’ DID show up in the form of Champion Gundyr, there was nothing he could actually do there. Not to mention it seems they also used the Eyes of the Firekeeper item we find there to get their Firekeeper to try and snuff out the flame like we can get our Firekeeper to do in one of the endings.

Really, it seems like the only wrinkle in the Princes’ plan may have been Ludleth. As in, I think the way he became a Lord of Cinder was by sneaking into the Kiln of the First Flame after the Princes opened it, and Linked the stifled flame, starting the ‘age’ we find ourselves in at the start of the game.

Basically, Dark Souls 3 shows us just how twisted and corrupted the Age of Fire has become after all these eons, giving us a look at the lengths the Gods and their followers will go to in order to perpetuate a broken, twisted, even unsustainable system, and the lengths that others will go to in order to break that system.

[ladygwyndolin]

actually less a lore question and more a headcanon question: do you have any particular thoughts on Gertrude and her possible relation to the twin princes? i'm really curious if you've ever had thoughts on that!

Gertrude is their younger sister whose imprisonment kicked off the Lothric Civil War with followers of the angelic faith along with the princes on one side with the loyalists and Oceiros (who supported the imprisonment of Gertrude) on the other, blue being the side of angels and red being the side of royals. Whether it was the catalyst of the conflict or transpired during it, she died while imprisoned. Her mother attempted to save her but was too late (unless the grub Rosaria holds is Gertrude), and the combat eventually pushed Lothric and Lorian into the defensive position we find them in while Oceiros's study of texts obtained by the scholars drove him mad and led to his confinement

[mrslittletall]

For the character ask thing the dark souls twinks: Gwyndolin and Lothric!

Character Breakdown

Gwyndolin first.

How I feel about this character At first I had to laugh because someone put "Trap ahead" in front of their boss room and I was on voice with a friend and was like "Oh, the character behind there is a crossdresser, right?", totally not thinking I would be right. I WAS RIGHT! AAAAH! Anyway, I really like Gwyndolin. Poor shunned child who tried to uphold a status quo that had already failed.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

No one. I like to think of them as aro/ace.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Gwyndolin and their siblings as well as Gwyndolin and Ornstein. I like to think that Gwyndolin is younger than Ornstein (like physically, they are a god after all) and therefore Ornstein feels the extra need to protect them.

My unpopular opinion about this character

Gwyndolin is not a trans man. I really really do not like this headcanon. I know why people have it and it is fine that they have it, I just really think that it weakens Gwyndolin's story to put Gwyn as transphobic and nothing else.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

It would have been nice to see them before Aldrich ate them.

Now Lothric...

How I feel about this character

Pretty neutral. I was never that big on twin princes outside of cooping their fight a bunch.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Lorian is pretty much the canon ship for Lothric, really.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Also Lorian, when we don't see their relationship as romantic.

My unpopular opinion about this character

I don't have one.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

I am perfectly fine with what happened in canon.

[esspurrr]

👆 bearers of the curse (the curse is “i want to be a comforting presence to you but im not very good at it yet”)

(dont tag as ship)

[maranigai]

Crown prince, your heart will be broken here 

in your own honor.

Quick drawing based on my Ashen one’s backstory, song inspired.

[stephicness]

For the character headcanons if you're still doing them, Lothric and Lorian? c:

Five Headcanons about Lothric and Lorian, the Twin Princes

So you know how these two are basically unified as one soul within the game? Instead of Lothric’s soul just being the Soul of Lothric or there also being the Soul of Lorian, it’s actually both! I imagine that Lorian knew about this but Lothric did not. So Lorian kept himself alive as a sense of self-preservation, but also because he knew he’d keep coming back so long as Lothric was alive. Lothric eventually learned about this though, so he helps Lorian stay alive/revive himself.

Lorian used to be a really well-revered warrior, credited for killing the Demon Prince (or so we thought). He was going to become king, so he probably was forced to potentially have a fiance of some sort by the advisors and scholars of the castle. However, he always had his concerns over Lothric, so it kept him from really committing to anyone besides his brother.

The curse apparently lead to Lorian being crippled and mute, right? I like to think that it wasn’t the curse necessarily that caused it, but more rather people that tried to stop Lorian from taking Lothric away so he wouldn’t have to light the flame. His legs were left crippled and broken when he was revived, and he probably had a throat injury that left him mute. But such injuries were necessary casualties for Lothric’s sake.

With Oceiros being more concerned over his obsession the paledrake and with the youngest child, Ocelotte, and the queen of Lothric disappearing, it was usually Lorian who showed more concern over Lothric’s well-being, taking care of his brother while trying to tend to his duties as the future king of the kingdom. He was Lothric’s caretaker during their early ears, but it eventually changed a bit once Lorian became crippled and the two were safe from those that contended the princes to light the flame.

Lorian probably read Lothric alot of stories and tales whenever they could together. Lothric always enjoyed the tragedies while Lorian enjoyed the stories of heroism. But when Lorian became mute, Lothric took up trying to read these stories to Lorian instead, despite there only being so many books left in their domain as they remained hidden atop of the castle.

[cometcalloway]

Update -

I’ve decided the characters I’ve been writing here make more sense as OCs (Rook and Sparrow), and I’m going to rework the rules & about to reflect that. I already have the bare bones of a story for them, as exiled royals who live in an abandoned enchanted painting that’s been fading and falling apart over time. Their personalities are essentially the same, though I won’t try to stop them if they show me some different characteristics after being transplanted into a different environment. I’m really excited about developing this story more, & I can’t wait to get to it. I love how versatile a painting world with its own rules is, you can stick a painting anywhere and the AU writes itself.

I won’t be writing in the Dark Souls universe anymore, or in the Bloodborne universe, & this blog currently fits best in the fandomless OC rpc. If we have a Dark Souls thread, we could drop it and plot something new. If we have a thread that does not take place in that universe, I’ll just change some names & details for my characters & we can proceed as usual. If I make fanart of the Twin Princes from Dark Souls, I will post that on my main blog @cactus-chowder & tag it with ‘Lothric’ and/or ‘Lorian.’ If you came here mainly for Dark Souls content & headcanons, if the frequent hiatuses are too much to keep up with, etc. please feel free to unfollow.

I’m not sure when I’ll be ready to write more threads again, but thanks for sticking around!

[sny-bylle]

Another DS3 Headcanon

The Kingdom Lothric is indeed Lordran. The name changed during time.

While Prince Lothric is named after the kingdom, Lorian’s name is an altered version of “Lordran”

[iguessigotta]

Hey! Here's an info post! Wow! [updated july 2023]

INBOX (not???) FIXED?? - Since the inbox on this blog is still busted, send requests to my main blog. I'll update this post once the problem is fixed.

[things i've requested] [dream tag] [#theherofuse]

I mostly write fluff, but also write smut - those posts will have warnings on them and will be 18+

Inbox is open for requests:

fics/drabble

headcanons

imagines/scenarios

you can also infodump about the weird character-related dreams you've been plagued with like some sickly victorian-era nobleman

I am willing to write romantic (❤️), platonic (🌼), or dark (💀) content for my faves:

Darkiplier (markiplier)❤️

Karl Heisenberg (re8)❤️

Kars [potentially the other pillarmen too] (jjba)❤️🌼

Kakyoin (jjba)🌼

Jotaro (jjba)🌼

Bruno (jjba)❤️

Leone (jjba)❤️

Risotto (jjba)❤️

Cullen Rutherford (dragon age inquisition)❤️

Kurama/Yoko Kurama (yyh)❤️🌼

Julian Devorak (arcana)❤️

Rire (btd)❤️💀

Strade (btd)💀

Eddie Gluskin (Outlast: Whistleblower)💀

Bucky (mcu)❤️

Loki (mcu)❤️🌼

Geralt [Eskel is a fave too but I haven't played the games yet & what they did to him in the show is a travesty so idk if I actually can write for him] (witcher)❤️🌼

Shunsui (bleach)❤️

Ukitake (bleach)❤️

Michael Langdon (ahs:a)❤️💀

Elder Prince Lorian (ds3)❤️💀

Younger Prince Lothric (ds3)❤️💀

More faves can and will be added as I think of them

I am willing to write platonic (probably only headcanons tho) for characters connected to my faves.

Wanna request a character but you're not sure if I'll write for them? Go ahead and send it in, worst case I'll turn it down.

[headcanontheshitoutofsoulsborne]

The two dragons on the Lothric Castle bridge represent Lothric and Lorian.

[lightlorn]

what do u hc gwynevere's relationship with her family members is like? do these relationships help or hinder her towards her own goals? what is more important to her---her family or her goals? how connected are her family and her goals?

That honestly depends on the generation at hand. With her parents, there’s a certain level of complication, with her siblings, a real love, and for her children, well… It all sort of flows together towards her goals. Gwynevere is not nearly as independent as she seems, for her goals are those which best further her family’s interests.

Let’s start from the beginning. This is all super heavily headcanon-based/built on my own lore, so by no means take it as gospel if you play any of these characters. I would be absolutely delighted to write something different with you!

As I imagine it, her parents relationship ended when she was quite young. Gwynevere was left to Gwyn, and her mother was largely out of the picture for the remainder of her youth. While she might have paid visits and tried to be a part of Gwynevere’s life, the girl rebuked her for the most part, thinking her mother had abandoned her by walking away from her marriage. From this, Gwynevere became less concerned about her mother and more devoted to Gwyn himself. As time went on, she remained the loyal daughter, which in turn earned her father’s love and respect. This laid the foundation that would define the rest of her life.

Her healthiest relationship was probably with her older brother, Gwyn’s Firstborn. As he is the only sibling that she did not have to be a caretaker for, I think they were better able to acknowledge one another as equals, to have a warm and natural affinity for each other. She often fought to be a part of his life, to play tagalong kid sister to he and his friends. Even during the war, they were a united force – he on the frontlines, she in a supportive non-combat role. Never one without the other. Sunlight following the Storm. 

His leaving wounded her deeply, that he be able to walk away from the family with such finality. She does not speak of him, but there is a part of her heart that is still hollow from his absence. Even millennia after the fact, she recognizes his shadow in her own oldest son, and is equal parts comforted and terrified of what this means for Lorian.

Next up is Filianore, and she adored her younger sister fiercely. Where Gwynevere has always been pure fire, passionate and uncompromising, Filianore was far softer. The two struck a fine balance in this, with none of the trappings of sisterly rivalry that others would expect. Gwynevere was always there to go to bat for her little sister, and Filianore often turned to Gwynevere above all others. There was, perhaps, a certain thread of reliance in their interactions, but nothing anyone would note in their time together.

That time ended too, however, when Filianore was sent away to the Ringed City. For the second time, in a very short span, Gwynevere had someone she loved taken from her. This time, however, there was no grand betrayal, no choice. Her little sister was simply there, and then gone. Something about this has always haunted her, even centuries later.

Which leaves us with Gwyndolin. Gwyndolin, the child others considered malformed and cursed, who was forced to play at the role their father set aside for them. Gwyndolin, delicate and thoughtful, an old soul even at a tender age. Gwynevere could not help but love them, looking after them like her own once Gwyndolin’s mother left the picture and Gwyn turned his back on his youngest. Their relationship is a many varied thing, siblings by blood, but initially more like parent and child, and later partners in crime. They always have each other’s backs. Their interests are the same, all the way to the bitter end.

Even then, she was made to leave by necessity, the final god to leave the holy city. She roamed, and Gwyndolin ruled alone, in her image. The two kept contact, though, and her only priority after her father’s legacy is Gwyndolin’s welfare. She loves her sibling to the point that they haunt her through Lothric, the delicate child veiled and pale. To outlive her youngest sibling was one of the worst experiences of her life.

Now, what this all comes to is a woman so accustomed to others leaving that she throws herself wholly into the goals and schemes of others. To those who remain, she is unshakably loyal. When Gwyndolin presents her with a way to keep their father’s legacy burning forevermore through sacrifice, she doesn’t hesitate to play along. She becomes a sort of  missionary to her father’s will, just as Gwyndolin becomes the mouthpiece and designer. All that matters, in all her life, is that Gwyn’s will be done. The Darkness must be kept at bay. The Flame must burn. 

All of which brings us to the tragedy of her children.

Lydia was her firstborn, her only with Artorias, conceived shortly before his loss and treasured all the more for it. She is the last earthly tie to Gwynevere’s true love, and for that the girl was allowed anything. There was nothing Gwynevere would not do for her daughter, and it speaks to later desperation that she began to close herself off from a grown Lydia’s counsel. In many ways, the girl became her mother’s ally and trusted confidant in her journeys for the Flame, though was spared the worst of such plots. Her ending came from an altogether different source, the Tyrant Sulyvahn, who made a beast of both Gwynevere’s beloved sibling and her most adored child.

Gertrude came from Gwynevere’s relationship with the flame god Flann, and is a living what if. Had Gwynevere stayed loyal to Flann, had she embraced the inevitable to chase what joy could be found before the dark, she might have had a kinder go of it. Gertude might have been saved, in the end, had her mother the sense to walk away. Unfortunately, the Princess gave herself wholly to her Gwyn’s legacy instead, and in turn made a future zealot of Gertrude. She was the loyal daughter, just as her mother had been before her, and in the twilight of an Eclipse, she was another sacrifice to the conflict between the Flame and the Dark.

Lorian is her only son, the aftermath of her one night as wife to the king Oceiros. As such, and being her one joy in the dour Kingdom of Lothric, he was doted upon. Gwynevere made clear that her son was above all others in that place, even his father, for being a grandson of the Lord of Light. As he grew to be more and more like his lost uncle – riding a Wyvern, a good and honorable prince, peerless in battle – she rejoiced. Here was a boy worth all of it. Here was the reason she fought so for an eternal Flame. She did not account for how deeply the comparisons to the Nameless King would run, or how deeply his betrayal would cut. In that, he was a fool, and she turned her back on him as he turned his back on his blood.

Leaving us with Lothric. The promised child, the light meant to end all things. The rebel child, refusing to be sacrificed like a fatted calf after so short and difficult a life. He was hardly even a child to her, only a pawn, but she claimed him for blood all the same. Gwynevere was gone by the time he turned his back on his purpose, but in the end of days, she was furious with him. It was only after she had lost all her children, left alone in the dark and the ashes, that she realized just what she had become. Nowhere was her cruelty more evident than in the impact she had upon Lothric’s life. Not that it mattered much from hindsight, but the boy did teach her shame in the end, and how little her crusade had amounted to when all was said and done. 

From this, we see the worst of Gwynevere and her drive to see Gwyn’s will done: How her children become little more than vehicles for her own aspirations. While Gertrude and especially Lydia got out relatively unscathed in childhood through young adulthood, the sons never had a chance. Desperate times called for desperate measures, and Gwynevere was certainly desperate by the time III came to pass. She continues the cycle of abuse and disrespect that Gwyn began, making a tragedy of everyone around her. 

In the end, without that legacy to uphold, Gwynevere is left adrift and without purpose. Her life was only her own for a short time, and left alone she realizes how flimsy her sense of self is. She did everything for her father – even sacrifice her own children, her own chances at real happiness. Gwynevere’s family lies at the heart of everything. That is her ultimate tragedy, and her great cruelty, to herself and others. They were always one and the same.

Take away one aspect, and there is only a shell left.

[thewildthewarlikeandthewoebegone]

Have I ever mentioned that I love to headcanon the twin princes as nonbinary?  Rigid gender roles aren’t an immutable fact of life, and it’s more than reasonable to assume that nonbinary people are easily accepted as normal in the Dark Souls universe.  But if imagining the twin princes actively kicking gender roles to the curb can spark some joy, I’ve got you covered.

(this post is more about nonbinary pride than Dark Souls lore, so if you’re going to reblog and add things, please don’t go off topic!)

There are a lot of statues and gargoyles in Lothric castle, and most of them are generic ones that get copy/pasted around.  Here are the two generic ones I’ve found that look like kings:

Both of them have beards.  Even Oceiros’s dragon form has something that looks like a beard.  It seems that kingly fashion for Lothric royalty looks something like the statues pictured above.  The twin princes, of course, don’t give a fuck about any of that and decide they’d rather look like elves, which is great.

However, the most common copy/pasted statues in the castle are probably these:

These grim reminders are everywhere.  This tells me that the ‘company culture’ around here asks for absolute obedience.  These knights are not only mutilated/being mutilated, they’re participating in the process.  The message I imagine these are supposed to send is that it’s not good enough to be willing to put personal wishes aside and suffer and even die for the King.  You don’t get any personal wishes in the first place.  If the King wants you to cut your own head off, those are your personal wishes now.  So if you’re part of this machine, you might not get the option to shrug off tradition and decide you’d rather look like Legolas than your evil dad (and on a related note, I find it hard to believe that Lorian’s ‘glory days’ were anything to be proud of when he spent all that time working for this).

I wonder if Lothric and Lorian spent a lot of their lives looking something more like this:

Lothric with short hair because he’s not supposed to look like a girl, but no beard because he’s not supposed to look like an adult in a position of authority?  Effort put into hiding his dark circles and the blemishes on his face, to look more like the perfect sacrifice they wanted but didn’t get?  The low hood will already hide a lot.  Lorian, with the kingly appearance Lothric was supposed to have, sent to distant battlefields to enact the will of the King as his spitting image?  

Maybe when Lothric refused to link the Fire and Lorian followed him, it was the first time they really had control over their appearances.  Maybe it was the first time that appearance was allowed to mean self-expression instead of proof of commitment.  Maybe they were thinking about none of this when they acted to keep Lothric alive, maybe they spent their whole lives looking and acting as they were expected because they didn’t feel free to do anything else and it never occurred to them anything could ever be different.  Maybe they could have spent their whole lives feeling indescribably out of place as their assigned gender, could have kept brushing it off because everything is uncomfortable anyway and they've never been presented with other options.  And now they’re known only by the appearances they chose for themselves.

You have to pass so many headless statues demanding respect for absolute authority before you get to the princes’ room, and when you get there Lothric addresses you like an equal.  The princes are doing absolutely nothing to run the place or bully anybody into submission, and there are still undead knights patrolling in front of the princes’ room, intentionally, protectively.  Lorian isn’t protecting Lothric because he’d be afraid to disobey an order, he’s there because he loves his brother.  You pass many images of kings who look the same, with appearances literally set in stone, and the royals you finally meet are free to pursue gender expression as they see fit.  This is not the old order.  This is something completely new growing in the cracks of it, even as the world is ending.  New, and better.  

[boredofcinder]

holy SHIT tho, I do like the idea of Lorian needing glasses, maybe kind of badly. 

& he’s like, in his prime doing knight stuff & everybody’s like.  wow!!!! you’re intimidating as hell!  you’re out there hacking & slashing so furiously all of us are standing back bigtime!  none of your enemies can get near you!  you’re fucking crazy but we love it!!  what a champ!  mad dog of the battlefield, watch out!

& lorian’s like.  inwardly.  I can’t fucking see!!!  Lothric castle ‘company culture’ says that asking for help or admitting to weakness of any kind makes you a baby wuss idiot!!  nobody fucking knows!!!  I’m Big(TM) but I don’t want to die out here!!!  

& lorian’s bigtime accomplishment is killing the shit out of the demon prince, right......one of the beings rated highest in the entire world for ‘being on fucking fire and very hard to miss’

& then he & Lothric get their souls stuck together & he’s like what the fuck.  trees have got so many individual leaves when you look at them.

[private rp blog headcanon, pls don’t reblog!]

[hiscinder]

HEADCANON:

THE SOUL’S   not human. When Oceiros cursed Lothric, he took their place. He was like a FATHER to Lothric and Lorian, as he served as a royal protector to the King’s Rule and was charged with the protection. To lessen their burden he descended to the Kiln of the First Flame. Pleading with the Fire, he offered his own soul to link the flames. In return, he only asked if he could remain to protect the two princes who he would have otherwise named his sons. 

His wish was granted, and his soul was stripped from his body. However, it was a curse. He was closed from the living, his own mind stolen and hidden away. Memories suppressed, and his personality and humanity snuffed away, leaving only a husk of a man that would serve as the VESSEL for the Lords of Cinder’s power. 

He is not one MAN, but rather now an amalgamation and monstrosity of the twisted and corrupted Souls of the Lords of Cinder and Gods of Fire. And with each new Lord, his mind is more and more lost... Now it rarely shows itself. The man that remained in the empty husk, faint. Only showing, or having the strength to show rarely.