#primogenture

[killer-fun-podcast]

While an inheritance can be a great honor, it can also come with responsibility that can’t be realized until you have the entire situation laid out before you. This is the case for Eddie, who inherits a Dukeship - and more trouble than he could have imagined - in The Gentlemen. Email us: KillerFunPodcast@gmail.com Follow us on Facebook: fb.me/KillerFunPodcast All the Tweets, er, POSTS: http://twitter.com/KillerFunPod Instagram: killerfunpodcast

[horizon-verizon]

This had been bothering me for awhile but I only now stumbled into this by accident. Certain people love to whine that Rhaenyra is a "hypocrite" for not forcibly instituting realm-wide genderless succession. They favour the line "this isn't Dorne" and then claim that she's a bad person for not making it into Dorne, while pretending that they wouldn't call her reckless or tyrannical if she'd tried to do so.

Of course (at least, people should see it as "of course"), that simply wouldn't work. Not just because it would be unprecedented for the Crown to enforce their own rules of succession, but also because you just cannot implement an involuntary system like that in a patriarchal society. If you left it uncertain, enforcing it on a case-by-case basis upon Houses that did not agree to it, you create uncertainty from which countless succession crises will occur after the head of house dies without naming the daughter over the younger son. If you implement it on a universal basis, you pretty much guarantee mass rebellions in a realm like Westeros. Those were the concerns of the Black council. But there's yet another. Even if the Crown had the power to enforce genderless succession, to squash or dissuade rebellion, you're left with yet another inevitability that we have seen in real life when you tell families in a patriarchal society that their legacy might be reduced to only a daughter.

In my opinion, there is no "realistic" way to write a change like that going through, being forced through in Westeros that doesn't result in mass infanticide and abandonment of first-born girls. And that's on top of the rebellions.

And this whole time I've been assuming that "Dornish" genderless succession was either a world-building error on GRRM's part, or something he meant to clarify or flesh out later on (misunderstanding or not, Arianne's worries must have had a deeper, environmental foundation after all). Because it's been so long since I read the books cover-to-cover (between GoT seasons 6&7 do NOT make me think about the year and time passing) I suppose I might have just let "fanon" shape my view of it. Because there IS a very widespread assertation, one that's gotten very loud as of late (very interesting how one "other" is so often used to tear down the worse "other." For another time though.) that all of Dorne somehow has embraced genderless succession and this is of course for some reason mostly brought up to argue about how Rhaenyra is a bad person for wanting to be the special exception, or how House Targaryen is bad for wanting to be the special exception in this regard.

But these are GRRM's words.

A ruling princess of Dorne would =not= take the name of her consort. And some of the major Dornish lordlings also follow this custom, in imitation of the ruling house.

And this is why before diving in further to a Targ-Martell comparison I ask you, resident expert in remembering and cataloging all those kinds of details, if there's some line in the main series outright contradicting this. Because if not, I'm pretty sure House Martell made itself a special exception. That the genderless succession they follow is the exception and not the rule even in Dorne. And by making themselves a special exception, they ended up setting an example that some houses follow on a voluntary basis.

And for some reason... no one is whining about it. 🤔

No, it is true other houses in Dorne have female heads and heirs before/during the main series timewise and thus practice absolute primogenture:

Delonne Allyrion, the Lady of Godsgrace (heir = Ryon, male) [current]

Larra Blackmont, Lady of Blackmount (heir = Jynessa, female) [current]

Clarisse Dayne, the Lady of Starfall [Maegor I's reign]

Myria Jordayne, heir of the current lord Trebor Jordayne of the Tor

So yes, some Dornish houses do practice absolute primogeniture and the Martells are not an "exception". It's not ubiquitous nor is it rare or uncommon. Nymeria had her warrior women marry many pre-Nymeria Conquest Andal-Dornish lords as well as shared Rhoynar metal and customs that over time simply reshaped a lot of Dorne forever; the northmost Dornish tend to be "less" Rhoynar in custom or practices, but apparently the non-Dornish marcher lords still see them as Other and gripe about their accents a lot. The northenmost Dornish are called "stony" by Daeron I, and tend to have members who can be lighter in ski and hair than other Dornishmen. Same trend for absolute primogeniture, though yes, much less specific bc George doesn't really get into Dorne aside for the Martells, Arianne, Dorna, and the Sand Snakes/Areo Hotah.

[sunlightswallowed]

Does Arianna resent her brother for taking her place as heir?

Absolutely not. As a child, she was raised under the belief/assumption that the position of heir was, by default, the right of the firstborn son. She was taught to view herself as the spare, should anything befall her brother. If she was to see herself in the line of succession at all (She was betrothed to Frederic very young, so it was usually assumed that she would have little to no claim to Arendelle's throne).

Even as she got older, if she were to hold resentment for anyone in the inheritance situation, it would likely be Runeard. But even then, she would probably attempt to rationalize it away. But Arianna would never, ever blame or resent Agnarr simply for being born, or for being lucky enough to be the preferred gender for an heir. Does she occasionally wonder what life might have been like had Arendelle had absolute primogenture rather than male-preference primogenture? Naturally. But she loves her brother deeply, and would never think of coveting what, in her eyes, belongs to him.

[princeboysal]

Lol no if you are team green you are misogynist who supports male primogenture. Both sides having "war criminals" doesn't change that fact. Also, the only real war criminal in the main cast is aemond. I'm not having a civil discussion with a bigot who thinks women shouldn't be allowed to inherit power the same way men can. Before you come her with "monarchy is bad regardless". This isnt a keep monarchy or don't keep monarchy situation. This is a keep male primogenture or don't keep male primogenture situations. And if you are team green you are siding to keep male primogenture which is misogynistic.

Petition for all team Black and team Green fans to not be at each other's throats this upcoming season, and instead, we all just root for our favorite war criminals in peace? And normalize liking characters from each team and just have a preference on teams? Because that sounds like a fun time to me, thank you 🫶

[dragoninmypocket]

women of deltora

she is water

soft enough 

to offer life

tough enough 

to drown it away - rupi kaur

[carmichealroyals]

prediction: things are not going to go according to plan with the succession

Hi there! This is a REALLY interesting prediction for a couple of reasons. I feel like you mean the succession of William, which (don’t worry) will go off without a hitch, but then there’s the question of our soon to be Crown Princess...

The Winden Territories are still a fairly new country in the grand scheme of things. This means that Charlotte’s great-times-three grandfather, the first King, isn’t too far removed from her in a big picture sense. Her great-grandfather, King Vincent, instated an absolute primogenture law before Maxwell was born, which ruffled more than a few feathers but has been largely forgotten in the decades since, because... well, there’s been no need for it to have been brought up.  But now there is. For the first time ever, the Winden Territories is faced with an upcoming Queendom, and naturally, there are going to be some out there who... well, don’t take well to that idea, even now. You’ll just have to wait and see how this plays out!  Thanks for the ask! 

[racefortheironthrone]

I saw your post about Tommen and Marcella dying and I was wondering something. If Maggy's prophecy says all three children will wear golden crowns then golden shrouds, wouldn't that mean that all three of them would be the King or Queen of Westeros at one time. Therefore, because of male primogenture, Tommen would die before Marcella (unlike the show), and then Marcella would be crowned, and then die in some fashion. Am I off base here?

Well, they’ve already tried crowning Myrcella and that didn’t go well for her. I would say it’s more a symbolic thing than needing a formal coronation ceremony.

[rosaluxembae]

Excluding the correct answer that there's no such thing as a legitimate claim, Aegon is clearly the most legitimist candidate of the named options. The only possible argument is there being precedent for favouring proximity over primogeniture (eg at the Great Council of 101 AC) so Daenerys could maybe argue that but not even Rhaenyra seemed to take that position so it's a stretch. But I'm voting for Monterys Velaryon as the true successor through male preference primogenture, the accepted system of inheritance in the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, except Dorne.

The question is specifically for the book only.

The question is not "who deserves the Iron Throne?" or "who would be the best ruler?"

Feel free to (politely) explain your reasoning in the comments and/or tags!

[gaminghardware0]

Crusader Kings 3 beginner’s guide

By now, you've probably heard about Crusader Kings 3, the latest massive grand strategy game from Paradox Interactive. It's a game about medieval royalty and war, about watching and even participating in the rise and fall of vast empires, and about poisoning your terrible uncle who won't give up his claims to a county you want. It's an intimidating game, and if you've never played a grand strategy game before, you might be thinking something like "should I play Crusader Kings 3?"

We think the answer is a resounding yes - just read our Crusaders King 3 review - and we're here to help. This guide is meant for complete newcomers to Crusader Kings and the grand strategy genre. If you've never learned to tell your primogentures from pikemen, you've come to the right place. Let's crack on.

Your first game of Crusader Kings 3 ought to be the new tutorial, which you'll be prompted to do the first time you fire up the game. If you need to pull it up again, you'll find it in the top right corner of the map when you click on 'New Game' in the main menu.

View the full site

RELATED LINKS: Crusader Kings 3 review, The best strategy games on PC, The best 4X games on PC from https://www.pcgamesn.com/crusader-kings-3/guide-ck3-tips

[horizon-verizon]

Hi, I’m curious on your thoughts about the promo pic of the Green Queen and the Black Dragon chess pieces from Entertainment Weekly?

Do you think it’s representative of who the dance was between? I’ve seen varying opinions, some of them happy with the Green Queen chess piece and some believing it should’ve either been a Green Dragon or Green King chess piece.

Always love hearing your thoughts/analysis! 😊

For context:

It's already a King chess piece, since it has the cross:

Queen chess pieces look like this:

And knight pieces look like this, almost always the horse or "steed", the instrument or being used for warfare:

The most important thing to me is that these pieces signify and show the personalities and claims and supports of Aegon vs Rhaenyra, and not just the teams or those supporting them. Because that is what all this is supposed to be about--Rhaenyra vs Aegon.

Of course, I could never expect atp for the show to really make Rhaenyra as she was from the books and we already saw that her banner would not be as her books's. this is a different Rhaenyra form the one we know from GRRM's own description, characterization, etc. the one who stayed behind in Dragonstone during rook's Rest bc of her recovering from miscarriage AND how it's just better for monarchs to not be directly in battles. She is not the ult-femme woman who loved jewels, rich clothing, to flaunt her heir status. Is not the fiery and proud woman of canon. I know all that. But I simply hate it, bc it's also a subtle choice to display that sort of femininity as "bad" and non-conducive of leadership...which reflects bad on Daenerys bc Dany is pretty femme but also a great commander and leader, which flouts the medieval notion that women cannot be good leaders in of themselves as they aren't entrusted with armies.

It certainly makes a certain kind of sense to have a dragon as the Knight piece since both sides use dragons for the war it doesn't seem to make sense for just the black team to have a dragon represent their entire team and/or Rhaenyra. We could make the case that a dragon Knight piece is attributed to the blacks bc it's supposed to represent Rhaenyra's rightfulness and emphasize how much of a Targ ruler she is meant to be bc you give her the dragon vs Aegon's piece being dragonless. How the green chess piece shows how Aegon is more banking on his Hightower background/Andal male primogenture-ness--thus the green color of the piece--to gain him the throne more than him relying on his Targ heritage since Viserys--previous monarch--didn't choose him or support his claim. I like the idea of putting more dragon iconography on the team black piece.

But since the dragon is replacing and mimicing the usually horse-Knight piece and dragons/horses are symbolic of aristocratic soldiers more than ruling royals (bc they are the cavalry) and the queen piece was left totally out of this promo, it gives Daemon more than Rhaenyra to me. Rhaenyra, of course could be just on dragonback flaming people like Dany did back in GoT, but they didn't bother to even put a sort of crown on the black dragon piece similar to the ordinary queen piece who usually has some raised spikes about the head to refer to those of a royal crown. Again, where is the "queenliness"? I resent the black piece giving more "Knight" than "Queen" while the green piece is like Hightower-backed Aegon/king and is thus doing more to express what team green is than the Knight piece is doing for team black.

Knights--though unpredictable, able to hop over pieces in their way, and harder to track than Queen pieces and thus seeming to be more "powerful" and fun--are there to protect the King as all pieces are, including the Queen. There are 2 Knights to spare, versus only one Queen. This very comparison and competiveness to see who's "stronger" also doesn't capture/opposes what should be going on between show!Rhaenyra and Daemon and what was likely going on b/t them, which was Daemon totally and long having been seeing Rhaenyra as his liege lady, his political superior, etc. to bring their house forward. It's a false narrative of women-peacemakers-butfailing-and-men-war-mongers-meant-to-be-softened-by-women-so-war-is-an-natural-and-inevitable-phenonmenon-and-women-aren't-inherently-strong-enough-to-be-good-rulers. (I saw that trailer, I know they are making Rhaenyra....after 6 long damn years, be unsure of Daemon's loyalty DESPITE her having said she needed him against the greens back in episode 7. I'm saying the writing of this show and its logic is ridiculous.)

For the black piece, instead of leaning into direct militarism, they should have leaned on the Queenliness for Rhaenrya as much as they did the character of "kingliness" for Aegon and play with AND AGAINST those gendered binary depictions of "power" that chess already deals with--the King piece can only move in all directions one square at a time, whereas the Queen does how many squares "she" can once "freed" from her orig spot. She's the more "ferocious", the more direct of the two. The more active. LEAN INTO THAT!! MAKE RHAENYRA'S FEROCITY EMBLEMATIC OF THE SORT OF "POWER" OF A REAL QUEEN CHESS PIECE'S.

First suggestion? Make a sort of dragon/queen hybrid? Because she is a dragonrider and then even more so as the heir, bk!Rhaenyra AND show!Rhaenyra trouble the Andal patriarchal gender binary even with her being ult femme in presentation in the orig canon. Or have the Queen piece of the promo either replace the dragon or have a gold dragon decorated into the usually far more elaborate Queen headpiece portion of the chesspiece. Then it would give more "Rhaenyra" and that the black team are fighting for her. Not for Daemon's interests. Or have a dragon's wings as the crown? Or weave the showViserys/Jaehaerys crown as the black Queen chesspiece, or something.

Especially with the gold ornament for the King piece tying in nicely to signify Sunfyre, who Aegon should be using as part of his side's sigil (no canonically, Aegon doesn't have a green field on his sigil, bc black is still a Targ color and he's trying to signal himself as a Targ king):

So, in a word, I hope it is not going to be the mess I describe.

[on-noon]

oh, you've definitely thought this world's politics through some.

i love other ssystems of inheritance for monarchies (i've read enough different types of primogenture, but any system more interesting than primogenture (don't care what type, they're all too common in fiction) catches my attention

i like your system, with it's allowance for more distantly related people to all be in the running for the throne

it's also great that you've thought about how all different groups of people fit into the political system of the world, that really makes it feel lived in

Hi there! Its Week 1 of the Sunday Writeblr Ask-A-Thon! I'm Athena, my question for you is: Think of the genres you write, what drew you you to them? What do you love about them?

Hi Athena! Another fascinating question from you<3

My primary genre is fantasy. I am pretty sure I was drawn to it by a combination of the cool visuals, the power fantasy and wish-fulfillment escapism, the way magic and worldbuilding can be used to exaggerate emotional beats and themes (I love me a good dramatic moment), the over-the-top villains, and the themes of hope, belonging, and compassion that the genre tends to explore. My writing also tends to focus heavily on power relations and government and spec fic is a great place to play around with different styles of government and class structures, and how they would shape the culture, etiquette, identities, and relationships of and between characters.

When I dabble in sci-fi I tend to explore the same things but more from a "technology sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from magic" angle. The difference is in the narrative. With magic-tech, the narrative is about human ingenuity and hubris. With magic-magic, the narrative is more about how humans relate to nature and the things beyond their control. (this is a gross oversimplification. I'm tired.)

[newdayessays]

What is primogeniture and how does it fit in with chivalry?

What is primogeniture and how does it fit in with chivalry?

Ancient World to Medieval Times – Primogenture & Chivalry

What is primogeniture and how does it fit in with chivalry?

[carmichealroyals]

BREAKING: THE KING IS DEAD

The King is dead.

Palace officials have confirmed that His Royal Majesty, King Vincent Charles Carmicheal of Windenburg passed away in his sleep last night. 

The Palace has not stated the cause of death, and it is expected that the Family will be making a formal announcement of the passing of His Majesty in the morning. 

His Majesty was the only child of Queen Henrietta and King William and became King at the age of 21. Early into his reign, he met then Lady Elizabeth Astor, eldest daughter of the Earl of Wellgrave. They dated for two years before he proposed, and they were married in the first Royal Wedding to allow media coverage in the history of the monarchy. One of His Majesties most notable acts was changing the law of Windenburg’s monarchy to follow an absolute primogenture when the Queen was first pregnant with Crown Prince Maxwell, stating that any heir of his would be a worthy successor, regardless of gender. 

King Vincent is survived by his wife, the Queen, their four children (Crown Prince Maxwell, Lillian Princess Royal, Prince Lucian, and Princess Diana), and three grandchildren (Prince William, Princess Belle, and Lady Emilia). 

Stay tuned for more coverage. 

[gaminghardware0]

Crusader Kings 3 beginner’s guide

By now, you've probably heard about Crusader Kings 3, the latest massive grand strategy game from Paradox Interactive. It's a game about medieval royalty and war, about watching and even participating in the rise and fall of vast empires, and about poisoning your terrible uncle who won't give up his claims to a county you want. It's an intimidating game, and if you've never played a grand strategy game before, you might be thinking something like "should I play Crusader Kings 3?"

We think the answer is a resounding yes - just read our Crusaders King 3 review - and we're here to help. This guide is meant for complete newcomers to Crusader Kings and the grand strategy genre. If you've never learned to tell your primogentures from pikemen, you've come to the right place. Let's crack on.

Your first game of Crusader Kings 3 ought to be the new tutorial, which you'll be prompted to do the first time you fire up the game. If you need to pull it up again, you'll find it in the top right corner of the map when you click on 'New Game' in the main menu.

View the full site

from https://www.pcgamesn.com/crusader-kings-3/guide-ck3-tips

[templarhalo]

@disneyprincessbuffyannesummers Raise a family with Jon if he survives, probably try and make up for her father's tyranny by being sane and overseeing the rebuilding of Westeros (think her ancestor Jaeharys I) including the integration of Dothraki and freed slaves. Work with an independent North to help settle the free folk and rebuild the Night's Watch. Probably bring back the reforms her great grandpa Aegon V made to protect the Smallfolk. Maybe make absolute primogenture a thing? More rights for women and such? Personally I think Dany would look to past Targaryen kings and Queens not on how to keep the throne, but what not to do.

Dear Daenerys Stans,

What is her plan after breaking the wheel, and taking back the throne?