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trainingdummyrabbit · 1 month ago

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[SURFS INSIDE OF THE ASKBOX AGAIN] hello i am Here to ask about what the Hell do magpie and luci have going on. Considering the whole Thing. magpie's watch being important to him and how luci is associated with the backwards clock. That Kind of Ordeal ^<^

hai . i am so capable of being normal about this. lie.

ok so im once again going to be At It, some mix btwn scattered notes and infodumping and me just saying words You Get It. i have Not been talking abt them as much as i think abt them, theyre another dynamic that haunts me to death. you understand. anyway; ~28 paragraphs.

so first i should Probably actually go over magpie as a character bc i. somehow. dont think i have. at all. so ^_^

magpie, our funny little manager, is introduced mostly as a negligible character. honestly? he just kind of sucked. shows up to be really annoying before dipping again, yapping just because he can, mostly. hes set up entirely to be some 'rich completely-inept asshole climbing the corporate ladder,' acting like hes So In Touch With Everyone (but still blatantly comes across as a complete and total narc). this is on purpose. magpie is a liar.

none of that is true, and he simply plays up the role so that people dont really suspect anything of him. actually, hes not supposed to be the manager at all. at his core, hes actually just. some guy from the backstreets people hire to do misc dirty work-- delivering information, just so happening to mess up in places that takes attention away from someone else, poking his nose places it doesnt belong-- hes got the look and charisma of someone who can be trusted, and he plays it up Hard. multiple times.

he has several different presentations he cycles through to get people to see him a certain way. he is Very Good at his job. he Hates his job. so much so, in fact, that after a particularly. messy. instance, he dropped off the map entirely to figure out some way-- any way at all-- to regain some sort of stability. (to stop the inevitability of harm even a little bit, even just once. (to make up for it all, maybe.))

so. yeah! magpie lies. a lot. he doesnt really care for status or the company as a whole at all-- originally it was just t cause problems for people he views as In Power, but like… fuck dude theres a LOT of people who Just Work Here, and if he went through with just Causing Problems like he thought he was going to, well. oof. so. change of plans! honestly now hes just trying to find some way to Get Everyone The Fuck Out Of Here.

he plays the part, and he snoops. he pretends not to notice shit he Definitely shouldnt be allowing (but like… if it makes shit easier for them, then yknow..) and pretty much just… lets people treat him however. because ultimately his act is Annoying and Untrustworthy yes, but also Completely Nonthreatening. people will let him get away with a LOT of shit with the excuse that he is "kinda stupid" and "doesnt know what hes doing." and well, yknow. whatever works! there is no way this can backfire <33

. so his thing with luci.

luci also generally sticks to her role as just kinda. yknow. Managerial Guide. at least to start out with. shes just figuring shit out yknow. and honestly, nobody really catches onto her being like… Conscious. except for Magpie. because he would always make dumb little quips and jokes at her out of habit-- yknow, like one talks to a particularly unruly printer or something-- and then she would respond in kind. like… snarking back enough to be like Okay Theres No Way Someone Just Programmed That In There Right. and not just that, she'd return with her Own little quips and questions, then act as though she didn't.

magpie originally takes this as a kind of "haha ok thats kind of fucked, at least thats something Super Illegal against these guys we can use if we need to" but then. unfortunately. the thing about magpie is that, against his own instincts, he cares for people. a Lot. he doesnt much enjoy watching people in danger-- and most certainly doesnt want to cause any of that Himself, he's over that.

which is to say: he Instantly gets attached. he cant really say it, but he counts her as as much of a person as anyone else is pretty much instantly, despite him knowing he really really shouldnt be doing that this is so stupid he cant just jump to conclusions like that and if anyone finds out theyre all So Dead. but he cant :( he cant help it… hes just a lil guy and luci is very obviously doing a horrible fucking job at hiding the fact that shes like… conscious. and he has a role to play up too, so its not like he can Do anything, especially since shes part of the damn facility's system and can probably get into contact with important people really easily..

so for a while, its just. luci thinking shes doing a great job at slinking around and playing the manager for a fool the whole time, and magpie fully aware but pretending not to notice and trying to just make things passively easier for her to figure herself out without anyone noticing. its insufferable. because theyre both Correct and Entirely Wrong about each other.

luci completely falls for his Dumb Manager facade and plays the part accordingly, playing around with him because its convenient and kind of funny, she also happens to be the only one who catches on that he is Not Supposed To Fucking Be Here, but plays along because, again, convenient. easy enough scapegoat if she needs it. meanwhile magpie clocks onto her Instantly, but Completely misses the fact that she isnt just innocently futzing around like he thinks she is. he somehow completely trusts her, so much so that despite being the only person who could possibly figure out her Scheming he just. completely rules it out. i really have to reiterate, they are So fucking insufferable.

it isnt until past halfway through th fucking game that luci catches on that magpie's front is . well, a front. and she is genuinely insulted she never caught on. its so fucking funny. and then things get kinda complicated bc like… [waves hands around] story events…..

luci kinda functions as a sorta "final boss" for the whole thing, in heavy quotes. ihavent decided exactly how itll go yet, but. waves hand around. the point is that shes kind of directly responsible for a LOT of people dying, and also kind of for directly threatening Them as well. but the thing is, she hinges Immensely deeply on the idea of Relevancy. because her own nature is so fickle and fragile, shes insistent on making a strong Impression of herself-- as this is what she feels like will root her into reality. something much like how abnormalities function-- ideas dont really ever die, and neither do they. and Thats what she wants more than anything.

so. while it wasnt exactly her entire Goal from the start, if she can cement herself as a Villain, then sure. whatever. it could be fun! and she plays it up. as she is wont to do.

that whole thing is important because of th fact that like.. the only person who Doesnt immediately believe that image of her IS magpie. like… yeah hes kinda had th rug pulled out from under him completely (and its kind of true that if he'd been a little more observant that he could have literally stopped all of this.. he tries not to think about it too hard.) but he also just… god, despite everything he still hates the idea of having to do anything to her.

it takes him a while to figure out why, but its because he's ALSO immediately able to call out her bluff. AGAIN. due to being pretty much the only person that talks to her directly (and.. genuinely ??? kind of??) he can tell when she is intentionally hiding something. she is very deliberately playing up the Idea of what a villain Is, goading everyone on, but he knows damn well what shes about. the issue is that it isnt wholly untrue either.

its like. yeah she intentionally hurt a lot of people, and will probably keep doing that if someone doesnt Do something about her (like everyone else wants to do…) but also… well to put it bluntly, again, she wants little more than simply to be able to Live.

shes purposefully putting herself into a role in order to get what she wants, confident that she can do whatever she wants with no consequence, and treats the entire thing as a weird little game. she doesnt really hold any malice in her heart, she just. she's just desperate and deeply, deeply confused.

shes not good, but shes not evil either. she is JUST stupid. she doesnt know what shes doing and will do just about anything to hide that fact because she hates the feeling of not having control over these things. something she Also tries to hide. honestly hes not really sure if she even notices it herself.

at this point luci has literally never had to deal with the consequences for her actions so this is quite literally the Peak of her hubris arc. to put it in a way, shes convinced she understands how the story goes and can change it how she wants, and she Does Not and Cannot. her arc is essentially trying to assign narrative significance to things in the hopes that it Fulfills something in her. it does not. instead she just has a bunch of problems she caused herself. oops. oh well <33 and its not like magpie doesnt try!! unfortunately its a little hard to talk someone down when theyre Actively Trying To Kill You, and also when theyve completely resigned themself to this sort of Only One Of Us Can Survive ultimatum.

which is to say luci keeps collecting death flags and well. oops <333 which kind of ends with magpie being literally the only person who knows that luci was ever anything other than that Antagonistic Presence she insisted on being (because she would rather have committed fully to that than to ever reveal that maybe, just a little, she was terrified of what would happen otherwise..)

but most importantly, luci ends up being Another Person that magpie couldn't help. its not like he couldve DONE anything, she would've refused anything and everything regardless, its just. man. god. ugh. that… that sucked. its not like he has a horrible track record of repeatedly failing to save people or anything… lol lmao………

so hey, the watch, right?

its something he got from one of his little jobs. last one he ever took, actually. he'd never say it was really a Moral way to make it day to day, but like, what Was, right? nothing was Really moral, everyone just kinda did what they had to; so like, no need to worry about it right? no time for all that. but then you pay a little too much attention, slip up a little, get to know someone a little too much; learn they're pretty much exactly like you are. someone with wants and hopes, little preferences and stories they get excited to share.

and then you get the guy killed. part of the plan from the start, of course, but like... he was Right There. its different when you have to look em in the eyes when you do it, yknow?

magpie's key running emotion is Guilt. he spent so long trying to avoid facing the reality of who he was and what he was doing, but unfortunately it catches up to him Big Time. he's just deceptively good at acting as though that isn't the case. no time to slow down, after all. he couldnt Afford to do anything else. honestly? his entire stunt with lcorp wasnt even something he Thought about too hard. it was stupid and impulsive and he knows it, but now he's Here, and he Has to do something. it has to be something, he can't just let it go. can't just let them go. (some part of him hopes that at the very least when it Does all backfire on him, at least it'd help somebody in the process...)

the watch is a reminder. something kind of absentmindedly tossed at him by the guy who put him on the job as a little something extra, (or in other words, something they didnt bother to want to deal with.) and then it turns out, it was just some petty fuckoff disagreement between them that started th whole thing! but its cool because he gives you the dead guy's watch "to sell for at least a little extra, as a tip." right. of course. yeah, that's... yeah, thanks. great!

he cleaned it and fixed it up and he keeps it as a memento. a little "hey dont fuck up again ok buddy?" a little "you could literally die at any time so like just remember that ok buddy?" ... an "at least let me honor this somehow before karma comes back and inevitably kicks my ass." equal parts reminder and weight to bear. sentimental piece and confession of guilt.

luci's ordeal with backwards clock is a mostly out-of-narrative subject-- assigning her abnos to thematically tie with for funsies. the clock is, wouldnt you guess it, linked with her experience with regret. its... very, very complicated to explain, especially because of the fact that 1) shes already so goddamn hard to decipher and 2) she is Also fully incapable of processing it for what it is.

which... kind of brings me to the whole Thing. magpie is plainly, fully aware that trusting luci in the way that he is is by all means a horrible, horrible idea. she's made it abundantly, repeatedly clear she will simply do whatever benefits her most at any given point. but all magpie can really see is someone struggling just a few paces behind him, exactly somewhere he has been, something he remembers incredibly clearly. as stupid as it may be, he wants to help her. he wants her to be able to find herself, confront what she refuses to acknowledge, give her a fighting chance.

he cant stand the idea of letting someone slip through his fingers like that. it's... its complicated, but its something he wants to stand by. luci just doesnt get it. she still holds a grudge towards him after everything, an odd caution knowing that he just. knows things about her. has seen her for what she is, further than she can bear to acknowledge herself, as bad of a job as she's doing hiding it. luci will continue to refuse any opening he gives to her, but he will continue to offer the option, time and time again.

. anyway heres some images.

#I HOPE THIS IS COHERENT theyre very difficult for me to speak about concretely for a variety of reasons #piktalk #pikocs #luci's thing with emotion is Weird because she will fully deflect anything by claiming shed meant to do something the entire time.#changing herself to become something else; hiding her actual intent by making it seem worse or better than what it actually is.#you just wont know because she intrinsically defends herself by theatricizing in a hyperbolic way.#there is one; maybe Two things she could not do that with to herself; and it sticks in her like a thorn.#cant rationalize herself out of being wrong; messing up; Having Actual Stake in something and Failing. she hates it. deeply.#so she pretends it never happened. (she cannot; in fact; do this.)#at the end of everything; luci is Very Very Bad At This. and magpie is the only person who sees it for what it is.#someone trying hard to feel in control no matter the cost. she cant lie to him because she let her guard down against him so early-#-thinking he wasnt listening. but also before she had those facades up to redirect perception of her.#he Knows her. uncomfortably so; for her. honestly; shes just curious and confused and trying to make out what Anything is.#and now she cant hide that from somebody. AND they refuse to antagonize her about it. somehow this is worse. awful. awful.#i hesitate to define it as such but its as close as anything can get. nervous man and his awful awful daughter he picked up somewhere.#anyway. time to stop looking at this for a while KSJBGJHDg #hopefully this is coherent. unfortunately bc They dont know what theyre doing I ALSO dont know what theyre doing; so;

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tonydaddingham · 1 year ago

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25 lazarii

so ive been thinking on neils ask and answer about the joint miracle crowley and aziraphale performed. now the way it could read is that the two didn't used to have the power of resurrection/power that is capable of resurrection, but now they do. but could also read that they didn't (as is, retrospectively from now) have the power, because it doesn't belong to them. it's this latter possibility that im going to look at because honestly? the whole thing feels to me a bit OP.

so i realise that it's not necessarily about resurrection as an act, but instead the potential to resurrect. regardless, im going to start from key moments of resurrection as a marker for their abilities:

first notion we have in s1, exactly as neil remarks, is aziraphale is able to revive a dove after warlock's birthday party. originally, this was crowley in the book (and was reportedly swapped for blocking reasons), so im going by the show only in this post to keep consistency:

and this is supported by crowley intimating in the resurrectionist minisode that aziraphale was too late to save morag - that he could only have helped when she was still alive but instead she died whilst aziraphale was dithering:

in fact, to me, the only time i can recall in GO (ie shout at me if wrong) we see anyone successfully resurrected is by adam, and this is marked by the reappearance of my beloved lesley, the international express delivery man:

"Adam had rebooted reality... people who were dead were now alive, and things that were broken were miraculously restored."

the only issue appears to be that crowley now seems to be able to exercise a power of resurrection in s2, where he appears to 'bring back' mr brown, and do so rather confidently as if he always had this kind of power...

this confidence would mirror what he says to shax, here:

although, whilst it may be implied that mr brown was killed by the demon, we only truly see him being hurtled through the air. and, whilst crowley appears to bluff that demons can't hurt humans directly, shax appears to believe him.

now, she could have just come to the resolution that they ought to kill mr brown anyway, rules (fake or not) be damned, but the fact that we don't actually see his death intimates that shax might have just toed the line (the demons yeeted him across the street, but was he technically hurt/killed? was shax responding with her own bluff when saying, "civilian casualty"?)

edit 21/08 - IM SMUG

ergo: was mr brown truly killed in the first place, and therefore did crowley truly resurrect him? i think the majority of people are going to say yes, and i would initially agree, but then we come to the below where crowley appears to have riddled it out:

now it could be a case of s2 giving us the 'what' (they are insanely powerful when working together), but the 'why' (eg. power of being essentially soulmates, love, two halves of the same whole etc.) is what is going to be determined in s3.

but the conclusion that crowley came to (and im thinking entirely with critical-noggin-topped-by-tinfoil-hat head on here) feels a bit odd in the sense that it would be that simple, and doubly-odd that at this point narratively - the series that is meant to set up s3 - that the answer would be given here.

it is a parallel to the fact that crowley and aziraphale seem to work best in cohesion - their body swap proved that somewhat - and the miracle is another example of where working together does work, but neither of them are at the character-development point yet of actually recognising it for what it is and means.

it's definitely the romantic, poetic option - that they are powerful because they do it together - and for that reason i definitely think there's some truth to it, but one of the vibes i got from s2 from multiple set pieces is that things are not initially as they seem. a couple of those things appear to have been resolved (gabriel/beelzebub, for example) but there are a load of chekhov's guns left lying around the metaphorical armoury, and i have to wonder if this is one that we all thought was decommissioned.

i want to also add that the gabriel miracle, in terms of set up, directly mirrors the facing down of satan. a key difference is that in s1, they are holding hands with the literal son of satan, whereas in s2, they are holding hands with a former archangel that doesn't appear to have any power whatsoever:

now, a miracle wasn't performed in the airfield scene (as far as we saw anyway, but potentially not counting adam's ability to retcon papa-dear), but this is directly after aziraphale names adam as 'human incarnate.' furthermore, this incredibly astute observation on the power of names by @rudeaziraphale highlights that adam, by definition of his given name, is meant to be human incarnate, and always was. and then we take into account crowley's line at the end of s1:

"For my money, the really big one is all of us, against all of them."

"What? Heaven and hell, against... humanity?"

so actually, is this what the miracle comes down to? that the power they exhibited is not just crowley and aziraphale together, but them, and humanity binding them together? crowley and aziraphale were always meant to be the same character - we know this from when neil has talked about the initial drafts he sent to terry - but actually are they truly whole without the entity that made them, influenced them, into who and what they are now?

the last thing i'll note is neil's earlier march ask here, which indicates that to bring someone back from the dead is a 'heavier weight than they could lift'. that may well just simply reference that together they could do it, absolutely, but i have to wonder if there is a secret third ingredient in the mix as well.

#good omens #the only other option i have is that god stuck her oar in but that feels a bit too much and i dont have enough to parse that option out #probably so many errors in this but pretend you didnt see them #i write everything from my phone and as soon as i write anything that has more than like six gifs my phone #simply goes into meltdown and becomes the temperature of the sun #s3 narrative spec #25 lazarii theory

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