#pharaoh's horses

[drafthearse]

Pharaoh's Unicorns by Nat Power.

[lunar-proxy]

i know basically only i and like 2 people cared for horsegirl yami/atem but i will die on this hill

[yugiohmangaoutofcontext]

[nostalgicfun]

Grand Champions Micro Minis 💜

[horseracingweekly]

This American Pharoah filly out of Just Louise sold for $1,350,000 at the Keeneland Sale today! 🌟 Congratulations to the breeders, consignor Paramount Sales, and new owners Amo Racing! We’re excited to watch this fabulous American Pharoah filly’s career. 🏇🏾💙

(i)

[clairelutra]

Don't you know it's all about the Tisroc Mayheliveforever

[jitteri]

Fanart for @beanist Ygo Seahorse/ Leafy Sea dragon au

Story here : Neighbors

[jasonxu0929]

Camels and horses are carrying visitors bustling around Giza pyramids！

[bargainsleuthbooks]

#ARCReview #Lexington: The Extraordinary Life and Turbulent Times of America's Legendary #Racehorse by #KimWickens #NetGalley #BookReview #July2023Books #BallantineBooks

His image is all over the city he was named after, and he was the father of modern thoroughbred racing in America. A new book looks at #Lexington, the people around him, and his legacy. #Newbooks #netgalley #bookreview #ARCreview #BallantineBooks

The powerful true story of the champion Thoroughbred racehorse who gained international fame in the tumultuous Civil War–era South, and became the most successful sire in American racing history The early days of American horse racing were grueling. Four-mile races, run two or three times in succession, were the norm, rewarding horses who brandished the ideal combination of stamina and speed.…

[kujakumai]

Pharaoh Atem naming all the horses in the palace stables and everyone expects the king's noble steeds to have majestic cool names but he keeps calling them cute stuff like "Fava Bean" and Priest Seto is furiously gritting his teeth every time he has to say one out loud

[literaryvein-reblogs]

I love your writing notes for horses and cats. Could I request one for dogs?

Writing Notes: Dogs & their Personalities

Many people have preconceived notions about different dog breeds’ behavioral quirks.

Golden retrievers are seen as playful and affectionate, and pit bulls can be viewed as hostile and aggressive.

Chihuahuas are labeled yappy and temperamental, whereas bulldogs are described as easygoing and sociable.

But in a study published in Science, Morrill and her colleagues (2022) show that a dog’s breed is not a good predictor of behavior. They propose that most behavioral trends in dog types predate modern breeding, which primarily altered physical appearance.

Dog Breeds. People have been breeding dogs since prehistoric times.

The earliest dog breeders used wolves to create domestic dogs.

From the beginning, humans purposefully bred dogs to perform various tasks.

The following are thought to be among the earliest jobs eagerly performed by the animal destined to be called “man’s best friend.”

Hunting

Guarding

Herding

When is a "breed" a breed and not just a kind or type of dog? The simplest way to define a breed is to say it always “breeds true.”

That is, breeding a purebred Irish Setter to another purebred Irish Setter will always produce dogs instantly recognizable as Irish Setters.

Each breed’s ideal physical traits, movement, and temperament are set down in a written document called a “breed standard.”

The American Kennel Club standard for each breed originates with a “parent club,” the AKC-recognized national club devoted to a particular breed.

Once approved by the AKC, a standard becomes both the breeder’s “blueprint” and the instrument used by dog show judges to evaluate a breeder’s work.

There are over 340 dog breeds known throughout the world.

The AKC recognizes 200 breeds.

Herding Group

Up until 1983, the breeds in the Herding Group were part of the Working Group.

They share an instinctual ability to control the movement of other animals.

These breeds were developed to: gather, herd and protect livestock.

Today, some like the Belgian Malinois and the German Shepherd Dog are commonly used for police and protection work.

The herding instinct in these breeds is so strong that Herding breeds have been known to gently herd their owners, especially the children of the family.

In general, these intelligent dogs make excellent companions and respond beautifully to training exercises.

Hound Group

Most hounds share the common ancestral trait of being used for hunting.

Some use acute scenting powers to follow a trail.

Others demonstrate a phenomenal gift of stamina as they relentlessly run down quarry. Beyond this, however, generalizations about hounds are hard to come by, since the Group encompasses quite a diverse lot.

There are Pharaoh Hounds, Norwegian Elkhounds, Afghans, Beagles etc.

Some hounds share the distinct ability to produce a unique sound known as baying. You'd best sample this sound before you decide to get a hound of your own to be sure it's your cup of tea.

Miscellaneous

This includes dog breeds that are currently part of the AKC’s Foundation Stock Service but have not yet been officially recognized by the organization or placed in a breed group.

Therefore, the breeds in this group do not have anything in common in terms of size, shape, or personality.

Non-Sporting Group

Non-Sporting dogs are made up of a diverse group of breeds with varying sizes, coats, personalities and overall appearance. They come from a wide variety of backgrounds so it is hard to generalize about this group of dogs.

From the sturdy Chow Chow, to the compact French Bulldog and the foxlike Keeshond, the differences in features can be vast.

Most are good watchdogs and housedogs.

Other breeds in this group are the ever-popular Dalmatian, Poodle and Lhasa Apso, and the less common Schipperke and Tibetan Spaniel.

Sporting Group

Naturally active and alert, these dogs make likeable, well-rounded companions.

First developed to work closely with hunters to locate and/or retrieve quarry. There are 4 basic types of Sporting dogs: Spaniels, Pointers, Retrievers, and Setters.

Known for their superior instincts in water and woods, many of these breeds enjoy hunting and other field activities.

Many of them, especially the water-retrieving breeds, have well–insulated water repellant coats, which are quite resilient to the elements.

Most require regular, invigorating exercise.

Terrier Group

Feisty and energetic are two of the primary traits that come to mind for those who have experience with Terriers. In fact, many describe their distinct personalities as “eager for a spirited argument.”

Bred to hunt, kill vermin and to guard their families home or barn; sizes range from fairly small, as in the Norfolk, Cairn or West Highland White Terrier, to the larger and grand Airedale Terrier.

Prospective owners should know that terriers make great pets, but they do require determination on the part of the owner because they can be stubborn; have high energy levels, and require special grooming (known as “stripping”) to maintain a characteristic appearance.

Toy Group

They might be short on size, but they are definitely not short on personality! Breeds in the Toy group are affectionate, sociable and adaptable to a wide range of lifestyles.

Just don't let their size and winsome expressions fool you: they are smart, full of energy and many have strong protective instincts.

Toy dogs are popular with city dwellers because they make ideal apartment dogs and terrific lap warmers on nippy nights.

Working Group

Quick to learn, this group is intelligent, strong, watchful, and alert.

Bred to assist man, they excel at jobs such as guarding property, pulling sleds and performing water rescues.

Doberman Pinschers, Siberian Huskies and Great Danes are part of this Group, to name just a few.

They make wonderful companions but because they are large, and naturally protective, prospective owners need to properly train and socialize a dog.

Some breeds in the Working Group may not be for the first-time dog owner.

Dog's Emotions. According to Dr. Erin Hecht and her team on The Canine Brains Project at Harvard University, dogs do feel and express emotions.

However, assigning human words and root causes to these emotions isn’t always the best way to describe them.

“On one hand, it can be helpful to use words like “jealousy” for conceptualizing and relating to dogs’ feelings,” says Dr. Julia Espinosa, a National Science Foundation postdoctoral fellow who studies how genes, the brain, and life experiences influence fear and reactivity in dogs.

But anthropomorphizing—assigning human feelings to animals—carries the risk of missing signals that more accurately explain your dog’s feelings and needs.

A better approach involves considering your dog’s feelings on a scale of very negative to very positive.

“What’s the smartest dog?” the question Dr. Hecht gets asked most — she has the science to back up her diplomatic answer: “This research suggests there’s not one type of canine intelligence,” she said. “There are multiple types.”

Dogs express their emotions all the time through body language like tail wagging, ear position, and subtle facial expressions.

Emotions that dogs and people may experience similarly include:

Fear

Frustration

Attachment

Playfulness

Joy

Puppies may begin developing feelings as early as 3 weeks of age. Around this time, they:

Startle when hearing loud noises, which suggests they feel fear.

Show signs of sadness or distress when away from their mom or littermates.

Begin initiating play during their critical period for socialization, when they’re between 3 and 12 weeks old. This behavior is likely influenced by positive emotions, such as happiness, Barton says.

Wolves also have similar brain structures and likely experience most of the same emotions, too. They aren’t domesticated, though, so they express these feelings toward other wolves, not humans.

Love. Technically speaking, “love” is a human concept—but you can gauge your relationship with your dog by strength of your bond and the level of trust between you. Even though dogs don’t experience love in the same way as humans, they still form strong social bonds with their favorite humans, says Dr. Olivia Reilly, a National Institutes of Health postdoctoral fellow examining how hormones like oxytocin influence attachment bonds between dogs and children. Experts believe oxytocin, a hormone released during social interactions, helps promote the formation of strong social bonds—and some evidence suggests dogs experience a surge of oxytocin when gazing into a favorite person’s eyes.

Fear. Dogs have the same hormones that play a role in the human stress response. This suggests they likely experience fear and anxiety in much the same way as humans do—although, of course, dogs and humans generally don’t fear the same things.

Sadness, anxiety, or depression. Dogs are very good at picking up on and mimicking human emotions. Actually, they’re a little too good at mimicking human emotions, says Dr. Nicholas Dragolea, certified dog behavior consultant and founder of Fetched. When a dog senses their pet parent is feeling sad or anxious, they’re likely to feel sad or anxious themselves. This is called emotional contagion. Dogs can also become sad, anxious, or depressed due to a change in their environment, including the loss of another pet or human. Changes from a dog’s baseline behaviors can be signs of emotional distress, according to Dr. Dragolea. For example, a dog who suddenly loses interest in going for walks, playing fetch, or eating may be feeling blue.

Other hurt feelings. Dogs don’t have the same capacity for abstract thought as humans. So while they may experience fear and emotions similar to jealousy, they likely won’t dwell on those events or feel resentment or embarrassment. Emotions like jealousy relate to a dog’s primal instinct to protect resources, including their pet parents, according to Dr. Dragolea. That’s why, if your dog catches you giving attention to another dog, they may consider this a threat and adjust their behavior accordingly. Even so, this doesn’t mean your dog’s feelings were hurt. What you interpret as hurt feelings may instead be more of a learned shift in behavior. For example, dogs may act subdued when they hear a sharp or upset, “No!” because they associate the word with that negative body language and tone. They may also experience fear, which can damage your bond.

One of the most comprehensive examinations of the structure of dog personality is Jones (2008) personality taxonomy for dogs.

In this framework, dogs vary along 5 dimensions:

Fearfulness characterizes a dog’s general anxiety and fearfulness toward people, other dogs, new environments, and handling (e.g., by groomers and owners). 

Aggression toward people characterizes a dog’s general and situational aggression toward humans. 

Activity/excitability characterizes a dog’s general level of excitability, playfulness, engagement, and companionability. 

Responsiveness to training characterizes a dog’s trainability and controllability (e.g., leaves food alone when they are told to). 

Aggression toward other animals characterizes a dog’s aggression and dominance towards other dogs and perceived prey (e.g., squirrels).

A study published in Journal of Research in Personality, is one of the first – and is the largest – studies of its kind to examine changes in dogs’ personalities.

Chopik surveyed owners of more than 1,600 dogs, including 50 different breeds.

Dogs ranged from just a few weeks old to 15 years, and were split closely between male and female.

The extensive survey had owners evaluate their dog’s personalities and answered questions about the dog’s behavioral history. The owners also answered a survey about their own personalities.

“We found correlations in 3 main areas:

age and personality,

in human-to-dog personality similarities and

in the influence a dog’s personality has on the quality of its relationship with its owner,” Chopik said.

“Older dogs are much harder to train; we found that the ‘sweet spot’ for teaching a dog obedience is around the age of 6, when it outgrows its excitable puppy stage but before its too set in its ways.”

One trait that rarely changes in age with dogs, Chopik said, was fear and anxiety.

Honing in on the saying, “dogs resemble their owners,” Chopik’s research showed dogs and owners share specific personality traits.

Extroverted humans rated their dogs as more excitable and active, while owners high in negative emotions rated their dogs as more fearful, active and less responsive to training.

Owners who rated themselves as agreeable rated their dogs as less fearful and less aggressive to people and animals.

The owners who felt happiest about their relationships with their dogs reported active and excitable dogs, as well as dogs who were most responsive to training.

Aggression and anxiety didn’t matter as much in having a happy relationship, Chopik said.

The Canine Behaviour Type Index divides dog behaviour into 12 types based on three dimensions of interactive factors.

The Environmental Dimension. There are 2 elements to this dimension: The Organised type seeks an orderly controlled environment. It loves to herd things and is team focused. The Spontaneous type is more self-focused and interested in a particular facet of its environment at any time, rather than with the larger picture that the Organised type focuses on.

The Social Dimension. This dimension refers to social position and willingness to comply with social rules. It is a linear hierarchy of 3 types: A, B, or Gamma in that order. The Alpha type is most dominant, confident and controlling socially. The Beta type is socially mobile and challenging of the social order. The Gamma type is a born follower and is highly rule bound socially.

The Motivation Dimension. This is a general term denoting how active your dog is. Dogs display either high or medium levels of motivation. High levels will amplify other characteristics in the preceding two dimensions. Medium levels will tone down the other behavioural dimensions.

Dogs’ personality may change with senescence (old age).

Breeds tend to cluster around specific profiles, because they have been selectively bred for specific purposes.

People often prefer a particular breed for their character, hence continue to select the same breed with a similar personality profile.

According to Dr. Hecht, just because certain dogs have brain makeups that suggest a certain disposition, it doesn’t lock them into those behaviors. That goes especially for working skills.

Sources: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ⚜ Cats ⚜ Horses ⚜ Resources PDFs

So glad to hear this, thank you! This is one of my favourite requested topics. Hope this helps with your writing.

[teamfreewill58]

As much as I love the Millennium World Arc it’s also incredibly heartbreaking to watch Atem go through that. He finally has all the pieces needed to open the tablet of memories and they were all sure that he would remember who he was and then he DIDN’T. Instead he goes through a repeat of what he did when he woke up in the Millennium Puzzle where he doesn’t know what’s going on or anything at all but instead of getting to try to piece things together he’s dropped right into the middle of huge dire events. And he does gradually start to get things back but for a huge chunk of it he’s completely in the dark AGAIN. He didn’t actually start remembering things until around where TKB dropped him in the river and his friends gave him his name. And it’s heartbreaking. It’s heart breaking how for the majority of the arc he had to just take people’s word for shit and just blindly trust that they were being honest and that what they were informing him was true. The fact that he spent a year and a half getting used to being with Yugi in his time period and then within two seconds of entering the Millennium World he’s barraged by his past at a million miles an hour, and its not even an everyday kind of day its his friggin -coronation-. So of course he can’t excuse himself. Like thank goodness for royal attendants so he could try and get information from Shimon who was more than willing to explain things to him and didn’t get mad or confused by him not knowing what was going on, he just was like “okay I dunno why the Pharaoh needs an explanation but I’ll explain.” And just look at him.

Like he’s so overwhelmed and its so sad because yeah he’s finally getting answers about his past but like at the same time he’s not. Just as he was a stranger in Yugi’s body and life now he’s a stranger in his own body and his own life. Unlike the people in his memories he feels out of place and he IS out of place sitting here where everyone knows him and he SHOULD know these people and he DOESN’T.

The scene on the balcony where Yugi can feel his loneliness and Atem is thinking about all of these new but familiar faces he goes, “Everyone here knows who I am. But I don’t know anyone. As a Pharaoh, did I truly understand them? And did they know the real me?” ( Ep 203 11:38) And yet in spite of that he still tried his absolute best to properly navigate being a Pharaoh and he nails it. He steps in himself to deal with Yami Bakura each time, and even though he hasn’t touched a sword in over 3,000 years we see he still knows how to use one just like he still knows how to ride a horse. Any time there is a battle in this arc Atem is front and center being a leader and protecting people or on his way to the battle.

Even though Mahad isn’t there for long (I mean I guess he kind of is because he becomes a card) the scene of him and Atem running into Mana is one of my favorites because that moment Atem realizes that these two were his friends and he did have friends he relaxes and starts flourishing as a pharaoh.

[godidontgaf]

RDR2 characters as dog breeds because they’re two of my special interests rn

Arthur - Kelpie. Always running around and chasing sheep (or in Arthurs case- people) so I think it’s fitting, also the pointy ears just fit Arthurs vibe so well

John - Okay don’t kill me but chihuahua. He’s tiny but he’s so snarky!!!

Dutch - He’s real serious and gets things done, so I’d say doberman. Kinda looks like him too if you squint

Hosea - Weimaraner, they’re sleek and look old. Like Hosea

Micah - Miniature schnauzer. I don’t think I need to explain this one

Kieran - Whippet, they’re super skinny and shake a lot, plus they kinda look like horses so it’s perfect for Kieran

Bill - Saint bernard. Fat, hairy, same face if you look hard enough

Charles - he’s buff as shit so American bully

Javier - Saluki, the long flowy hair on their ears kinda mimics Javiers curtain bangs (can I call them that???)

Sadie - Jack russel. They’re hunting dogs, they’re fast and they both have the same golden hair

Lenny - Golden retriever because he’s our golden boy and he is just so so cute and so happy <3

Karen - German shepherd cause she gets shit done amen

Swanson - Oh god. Irish wolfhound because 1. their hair is equally as messy 2. they’re both surpisingly big (I swear everytime swanson comes up to Arthur he’s the same height WHILE SLOUCHING) and 3. I had one knock me over at a dog park once because it wasn’t walking straight

Tilly - Teacup poodle because she’s insanely adorable and poodles often have that golden colour that reminds me of her dress

Sean - Shiba inu because they both got orange hair, they both have adorable smiles but oh my god the second they open their mouths you’ll never wanna have ears again

Strauss - Borzoi. Elegant but funny looking

Mary-beth - Cocker spaniel, they’re just pretty and have the same hair

Pearson - Pug. He’s ugly and is always breathing down my neck (yes I know we need food SHUT UP)

Trelawny - Maltese, specifically those ones with the insanely long, silky hair. Just so fancy

Eagle - Pharaoh hound? In every photo I see of them they look so serious and heroic. Also described as “elegant but rugged” which I think fits eagle perfectly

[vyvilha]

Tell us about the most crazy folklore creature you know 👀👀👀👀

ukrainian folklore is of course filled with all kinds of wonderful beasts: milk-stealing witches; beautiful girls with their innards outward; dog-headed one-eyed anthropophagous giants; pharaoh's army soldier fishwomen and so many more.

not sure if this is one is as "crazy" but i do find her intriguing. ukrainian spirit personification of the plague — chuma or džuma. chuma is envisioned as a rich lady in a chariot of six white horses; after her is a procession of sighthounds, spirits, owls, visions and witches. she can be recognized for roosters do not sing when she's near and dogs do not bark at her. where she swings her handkerchief — everything falls dead.

it is believed that the plague can live among people a regular life for some time. in one village of podillia region there was a story of a salt merchant pavlo who lived among other merchants for seven years and got himself quite a husbandry. on the seventh year he became sad and grieving, and people saw him yearning and weeping a lot. when asked what is wrong, he revealed that he is actually the plague, and now God had summoned him back to work, and he is grieving to leave his good friends behind. he promised the village to not ever harm them, then gifted away all of his possessions, kissed his friends goodbye and disappeared next morning. such is the story of pavlo the plague

[aziraphales-library]

hellooo,

before i get into this i just wanted to thoroughly thank you guys for the help i’ve gotten from you in the past, one time quite recently! i really really appreciate it! you are true angels on earth and deserve the world 🌎🩵

now i just had a thought and i thought i’d ask, are there any fics out there where crowley and aziraphale potentially have a run in with any of the 4 horsemen throughout history? (i feel like i maybe read one or two like this back in the day, i think they were perhaps death and pestilence in those works) i’m not necessarily looking for those specific fics, they’re probably in my bookmarks somewhere. but i just was rewatching episode 2 where war comes in and it said about how she’s been killing time “for so long” and i thought that might be interesting to see a & c coming across them sometimes and how they interact with each other. i’ll take future fics, but i think i’m more looking for past/historical settings

thank youuuu! and feel free to take your time, i’m in no rush.

love you, byeeeeee

Hiiii! Here are some fics where Aziraphale and/or Crowley meet one or more of the four horsemen through the ages. Mind the tags on some of these!..

Oilslick Feathers by sylveondreams (G)

After an unexpected encounter with Pollution, Crowley finds himself with wings soaked in oil and panic building in his chest.

How To Arrange A Meeting by Winds_of_Inspiration10 (T)

Aziraphale has come to Egypt to set forth the next step in the Great Plan - arrange a meeting between Joseph and the Pharaoh. That might be a bit difficult when Crawly informs him that the former has fallen from Potiphar's favor and is now in prison. How will these hereditary enemies get out of this one?

The Great Mortality by The_Jade_Goblin (T)

It's 1347 and the Black Death is stalking the better half of Europe, and Aziraphale is ready to be swept up in his despair. Waves of human populace are being wiped out in the blink of an eye, cities left empty and villages lie barren. There's no end in sight, no stopping this Biblical Plague from destroy humanity. But Crowley isn't willing to give up just yet. Or Aziraphale and Crowley are determined to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to help during the Black Plague, even if God Herself can't be bothered. And Aziraphale learns a little more about his demon companion at the same time.

Behold A White Horse by Aubergion (M)

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. ���  Revelation 6:1–2, King James Version The white horse has had many riders in the last six thousand years.

The Feathered Serpent by WaneMoose (T)

1521- Aziraphale has been working as an interpreter for the Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés in his mission to bring Mexico under the heel of Spanish colonialism and the Roman Catholic Church. When they arrive in the wondrous city of Tenochtitlán, the angel is shocked to discover that Cortés and his invading army have been invited to stay. Even more disconcerting is that invitation was the suggestion of a demon posing as the Aztec high priest for the god Quetzalcóatl, the winged serpent. Naively believing peaceful coexistence is a possibility, Aziraphale and Crowley bear witness to the Toxcatl massacre and the Fall of Tenochtitlán.

The Angel of Dunkirk by imnotokaywiththerunning (M)

Springtime 1940: Hitler's army has started its march across Europe and Aziraphale is worried. Another war so soon after the last was almost unbearable. He and Crowley have decided to stay well out of it, but a visit from the Archangel Gabriel sends Aziraphale headfirst into a war he never wanted to see.

- Mod D

[white-dragon-girl]

I was very interested in what Seto and Mokuba's biological parents must have looked like. Unfortunately, you don't see any of them in the manga. But the family must have been very wealthy. Otherwise, relatives of the Kaiba brothers would not be interested in their inheritance. The mother died shortly after Mokuba's birth and the father died later in a car accident. Seto Kaiba and Priest Seto look quite similar. The difference is the hair length, the skin color and the high cheekbones that seem to be typical of Egyptians. The same goes for Ishizu.So we can possibly assume that the parents of Seto's Egyptian counterpart were also his parents. But Aknadin is already quite old and his wife's hair was covered by a cloth. We know that Seto has brown hair and blue eyes. Mokuba, on the other hand, has black hair and violet eyes. If you look at the young Aknadin, his beard is a darker gray. In the manga he is even colored completely black. So I'm assuming his hair was originally black. This would also make sense because his brother Aknamkanon had the same beard color. And Atemu has mostly black hair. So his father must have had black hair too. However, in the picture I depicted Seto's father with the dark brown beard. Mokuba has violet eyes, just like Atemu. so it's likely that Aknadin and Aknamkanon also have violet eyes. So I give the father Mokuba's eye color. Aknadin has very long, parted hair. Since it's not common to wear hair that long in the modern world, I simply shortened it. Since I consider the family to be quite wealthy, the father was given a white suit. For the mother, the only hair color left was brown and the eye color blue. I based her hair a lot on Seto, because her father had a hairstyle that didn't really resemble Seto. Since I was thinking about their appearance, I wanted to think of appropriate names. Because Seto and Mokuba mean "seahorse" and "wooden horse", I thought of using a last name that also includes the word horse. I chose Umamoto, i.e. "horse origin". Aknadin is a derivative of Akhenaten. This was an Egyptian pharaoh. Its name means "Effective for Aton" and Aton means solar disk. So I looked for Japanese names that meant sun and decided on Hinata, meaning sunny place. The mother has no name. That's why I chose Himiko. Himiko was the name of an ancient Japanese queen. The name also means “sun daughter” and “shame queen”. This name is a reference to the name of Aknadin.

So the parents are called Hinata and Himiko Umamoto. And this is what they would look like if they were both still alive.