#peter losing wendy etc

[loverkasp]

it gets old being forever twenty… you said you’d come and get me but you were twenty five… behind every lost boy there’s always a wendy… lost to the lost boys chapter of your life… so i’ll lock the window and turn on the ac… the woman who sits by the window has turned out the light…

[youareinlove]

Taylor using Peter Pan and the story of the boy who wouldn't grow up as a whole motif in her writing for a bit was truly excellent. The actual story of Peter and Wendy is sad especially because I think it is mostly an allegory for lost youth.

it’s so good! and it’s the perfect metaphor because the themes of peter and wendy’s story—waiting forever, growing up (or refusing to), promises that aren’t kept—are all at the heart of ttpd. and even beyond that, i just love the way she talks about youth across ttpd/some of midnights. it’s something that you lose, something you can keep, something that gets taken, something you give, etc.

[gotasenseivebeenbetrayed]

peter

"Preserved from when we were just kids" "The goddess of timing Once found us beguiling"

The first part, they were 18 and 22 when they first got together and during the beginning of their relationship and "beguiling" means enchanting/charming - and the World was enchanted by them when they were together (aside from the haters) and then even while they were off and on over the years, he was always the one that she said would come in and out of her life and they'd "never be over", all which still fits with that beguiling line.

"I thought it was just goodbye for now"

"You said you were gonna grow up Then you were gonna come find me"

This is NOT giving me Matty vibes at all and I'll die on that hill. Again, 18 and 22 fits here more than 24 and 25. Sure, you're still growing at 24/25 don't get me wrong but, Matty was very much not saying "I'm going to grow up and come find you one day" at 25 years old in the height of his addiction and during his "I can't be with someone bigger than me because I want success on my own". This is giving "I was 18 when we got together and I need to figure my shit out but, one day we'll be together when I do". This also fits her saying he was always in and out of her life. She's been waiting for him to grow up and come find her again.

"But life was always easier on you Than it was on me"

She got way more hate during their relationship than he did, as she mentions in Slut! On top of the fact, he dated/had flings with many women back to back and never got shit for it but, she dates men back to back and gets hated for it. Granted, that could fit just about any male if we're honest but, she specifically wrote Slut! about Harry so.

"When crossing your jet stream We both did the best we could do Underneath the same moon In different galaxies"

This is giving me very much "we were constantly traveling for work and maybe my jet would cross over yours and we'd end up in the same place and try to make it work and then again when we were so far away from each other". It's also interesting that this album has quite a bit of talk about galaxies/aliens/moons and then circus/con men etc. when the last two MVS we got from Harry were "Satellite" and "Daylight" - Satellite which has the imagery of the sky/galaxy and saying he's waiting for her and then we have "Daylight" which is a circus theme MV.

"And I won't confess that I waited, but I let the lamp burn As the men masqueraded, I hoped you'd return With your feet on the ground, tell me all that you'd learned"

Here she's saying she dated other men during their time apart but, she was always still waiting for him to return to her and tell her he's grown up, figured out what he wanted, and that it's her.I also get the vibe she mentions men specifically because she was talking about him still being a "boy", so she dated men waiting for him - Calvin/Tom because they were her age range and they were "masquerading" as her boyfriend.

"And you said you'd come and get me, but you were twenty-five And the shelf life of those fantasies has expired"

This specific line is what has everyone thinking Matty but, they MET when he was 25. He was not laying all these promises out to her then and that's not what this line is saying to me. It's saying that the muse made all these promises to her BEFORE he turned 25 and then they saw each other again when he was 25 - he told her "I made those as a kid, they've expired now that we're older, they were just fantasies". Harry was 25 when he released Fine Line and when they saw each other at Ed's wedding. My guess is that was the first time they'd seen each other in a while and there was a talk that night and he might've said something along those lines or she took it that way.

All of this to also say the obvious ties of "Peter" and this song bringing the Peter Pan imagery and then "Peter Losing Wendy" reference in "Cardigan" which is obviously about Harry Styles. The fact people want to connect that with Matty now because they think this song is Matty is wild. Matty was not that young when they met, 25 is still a grown ass adult. Technically Harry was 17 when he met Taylor and who knows if they actually dated before he turned 18 or not. But James in Cardigan acts like a 17/18 year old Harry probably would've acted vs a 25 year old man. And even IF Matty and Taylor had a thing back then, it was an incredibly quick fling. Sleeping together and maybe a few dates but, they were definitely never in a relationship. She did not write Cardigan about a short fling.

[kkglinka]

Neo's telegraphed transition from tinkerbell to mary poppins is great though. The denizens of neverland encourage children to lose themselves in the fantasy of a perfect playground. It's the best place to be! (Like atlas) Tink, for her part, loves her lost boy so much that she fades from reality without him (also hates wendy for stealing him, can only feel one extreme emotion at a time, rendering her the perfect empty vessel if she abruptly runs out of feelings etc).

Meanwhile, mary poppins also encourages children to enter fantasy worlds, but guides them safely through, then back to reality. So the parasol becomes an umbrella and...huh.

That's how penny returns the third and final time. She's guided back from neverland, just as tinkerbell eventually relinquishes peter to wendy. Lemme back up.

While Pinocchio is Penny's primary allusion, she's a flying redhead in green who lives in a fantastical skyland (first star to the right and head on til morning), fights a man with a hook and being an android, cannot grow up (it's why she was always childlike).

Peter pan comes to wendy darling three times. Once for the initial adventure that ends with hook eaten by a crocodile (flying grimm). A second time briefly, but he's scared of being trapped and growing up. Then years later, whereupon he continues the cycle of taking successive generations of children on adventures.

That was Penny's voice calling to ruby, after her ostensible death. Given that the gang described penny as a soul merely inhabiting a body (a ghost in the machine), and ambrosius takes things literally, and we saw both a sword and green gears down in the ever after... I'll bet she's down there in the tree.

So she might be trapped in an incorporeal form, but since her main allusion is Pinocchio, who does get a happy ending... Neo's gonna bring her back, but as her authentic perception of self, able to grow up.

[taylortruther]

I know ttpd (the song) is pretty clearly a MH song but I do see some similarities to renegade and wondered if anyone else felt them too. Particularly the lines

"but you're in self sabotage mode/throwing spikes down on the road/but I've seen this episode before and still loved the show"

and

"but you awaken with dread/pounding nails in your head/but I've read this one where you come undone"

And for me, it's almost like this song is about MH but right here she's comparing how he is to how it was with Joe - "i've seen this before but I still loved the person. I've read it before but this time it can work"

idk it's giving me very oven to microwave and I feel that so many of the songs are mixed like that

it's giving "i think i've seen this film before, but i didn't like the ending" or "if the hero died then what's the movie for?" and "this is why they shouldn't kill off the main guy" and "tried to change the ending, peter losing wendy."

i see the connection, in that they describe moments where she is trying to love someone through their worst.

they differ because to me, ttpd sounds like the willful denial you employ when you enter a relationship against your better judgment lmao. like, that song reads to me (and would, even without context) as a sweet moment in a relationship with deep pains she's covering up with the power of love: you wake with dread, you're coming undone, you self-sabotage, you're trying to romanticize this thing that you shouldn't, we're in a messy whirlwind, i wonder if you're going to screw this up, we're clinging to it with our fingernails, we're crazy, you're making these gigantic promises, you're tortured, but who else gets you like me, babe?

LIKE!!! lmao and it's a feeling taylor has described many times (hoax comes to mind, but so does much of her earlier discography), and harkens back to what i said a few days ago about how straight women are conditioned to believe love means pain, sacrificing yourself and your needs, love conquers all, etc.

without knowing anything about her life, i would say the songwriter sounds like someone who's fallen for that, hook line and sinker. songs like the archer, peace, etc. speak to some growth, though, and the progression of ttpd the album show her trying harder to unlearn it.

[starwolf-and-marauders]

Cardigan is wolfstar in Remus's perspective.

"When you are young they assume you know nothing" - They are both young but they have both experienced trauma and pain that no one at their age should and they live during a war... That ruined their lives

"Black lipstick" - you can't tell me Sirius didn't wear black lipstick

"But I knew you" - everyone else knew what Sirius showed and not his true self, but Remus (and the other marauders ofc) knew him

"Dancing in your Levi's" - Sirius at every griffindor party

"Hand under my sweatshirt" - Remus only wore sweaters and sweatshirts

"Baby kiss it better" - Sirius kissed Remus everytime he was in pain to make it feel better and especially after full moons

"And when I felt like I was an old cardigan under someone's bed. You put me on and said I was your favourite" - remus was extremely self-conscious and he thought he was ugly but sirius called him beautiful and he thought he was the best person in the world

"Chase (two) girls" - Sirius when he strongly supported he was definitely not gay and he did not fancy Remus

"Playing hide and seek" - come on now that's definitely moony and pads during a full moon and they were friends since they were kids so they used to play together

"Giving me your weekends" - Hogsmead weekends

"To kiss in cars in downtown bars was all we needed" - they just wanted to be openly with each other

"You drew stars around my scars" - Sirius being protective of Remus and healing his scars <3

"But now I'm bleeding" - when Remus thought Sirius had betrayed them and he was left utterly alone

"Tried to change the ending, Peter losing Wendy (Remus losing Sirius) - after everything they've lost they can't lose each other too

"Leaving like a father, running like water" - Sirius was scared to show his feelings because of his family and he was just so confused before he realised he had a crush on Remus, so he just walked away (from conversations about feelings etc etc)

"The smell of smoke would hung around this long" - well in atyd they smoke together (and although I hate smoking I think that's very cute)

"Cause I knew everything when I was young" - Remus did know everything after all he'd been through

"I knew I cursed you for the longest time" - Remus was in love with Sirius at least since second year (even though he hadn't realised it because he didn't know he was gay)

"Chasing shadows" - I don't know why but it just fits like, they have to hide their relationship and they live in times of war

"I knew you'd miss me once the thrill expired" - do I need to clarify that the thrill expired the night of the Halloween of 1981?

"I knew you'd come back to me" - Sirius escaped freaking Azkaban for god's sake

[sakuraswordly]

Peter Pan in Tsubasa of Phantasia didn't want to grow up because he didn't want to lose relationships(Memories of the past) with friends or he didn't want to change to become something else(This fear is the same as Punch and Gilgamesh afraid of death. And that's why Peter Pan would never let go of Tinkerbell, the only family he has now.) but after he met Wendy and Zelda.

Peter: You've changed. Wendy: Not really. Not ever ...

Peter Pan is immortality but he knows he will lose them someday, if he makes a connection with them. Peter decides to go out into the Outside world with Tinkerbell. And the first friend that Peter will never forget, a precious memory that brings him back to the duties of King Arthur, is "Syaoran". And that time after that from season 1 to season 5, Peter chose himself to not shut down or protect himself to exist. Because of that decision he finally finds the someone he looking for for so long is Punch and this time Peter won't let go of Punch and will continue to protect Punch.

When Tinkerbell see this Relationship between Peter and Punch Tinkerbell comes to support Peter as well because Peter's not different from her.

Once Tinker Bell finds parts of a music box on the beach and figures out how to put them back together. Iridessa, Fawn, Silvermist, and Rosetta witness her doing this, then tell her that she was tinkering and that she should be proud of her talent. They tell her that if this is what she is good at, then the Mainland should not matter. Regardless of what they say, Tinker Bell is still set on going to the Mainland. She asks Rosetta if she will still try to teach her to be a garden fairy, but Rosetta says she thinks that tinkering is Tinker Bell's talent.

Tinker Bell decides to leave Pixie Hollow because of the destruction she caused, but after talking with the dust-talent fairy Terence about how important his job is, she realizes the importance of being a tinker. Tinker Bell redeems herself by inventing machines that quicken the process of decorating flowers, ladybugs, etc. This allows the other fairies to get back on schedule, thus saving the arrival of spring. Tinkerbell and Vidia quarrel causing Vidia to admit in front of the other fairies that she told Tinkerbell to capture the thistles. This leads Vidia to being punished by Queen Clarion. Queen Clarion also allows Tinker Bell to join the nature-talent fairies when they bring spring to the Mainland. More specifically, Tinker Bell is given the task of delivering the music box to its original owner (shown to be Wendy Darling). The narrator ends by saying that when lost toys are found or a broken clock starts to work, "it all means that one very special fairy might be near."

We're already "special" since we were born and don't hate the life you born into this world.

Tinkerbell: Yes. Because I’m a tinker. It’s who I am. And tinkers fix things. But I can't do it alone.

Tinkerbell and Punch together heal Peter Pan's wound from his cruel fate in the past like Syaoran and the burden of King Arthur. From now on Peter accepts to grow up but does not change his personality and that makes him become a hero once again.

[nicholerhe]

Everytime "cardigan" by taylor swift autoplays on youtube music, i can't help but think of jeremy donaldson & jenny hartley.

"When I felt like I was an old cardigan, under someone's bed, you put me on and said I was your favorite." -reminds me of the comfy jumper monologue !!

soo like imagine for me, just for a sec that jeremy & jenny are more than just a platonic duo....

"dancing in your levis, drunk under a streetlight" - jenny & jeremy going for drinks after work, maybe they had a bit too much to drink one night (perhaps to escape the reality of certain authoritarian government...) and they're laughing and talking as they walk through the park late at night. No other people around, but that's the way they like it. the streetlights allow them the slightest bit of visibility.

"hand under my sweatshirt, baby kiss it better" - i'm thinking forbidden touches, maybe not as far as T. Swift goes with this lyric. imagine him reaching for her wrist & holding it for a bit too long. imagine her hand brushing his back as she puts an arm around the back of his chair. imagine a kiss in the heat of the moment and then silence as the two of them wonder *what the hell just happened*

"to kiss in cars and downtown bars was all we needed" - do i even need to explain? ;)

"you drew stars around my scars," Jenny opening up about her tragic past (i.e the ex-bf and car incident the devs mentioned in one of their livestreams) while jeremy listens. and that puts it in perspective for him. it puts jenny and her *whole being* in perspective.

"but now i'm bleedin' " but then jeremy goes and leaves her. even worse, he lies to her and throws his life away for *alan james*. the crazy guy they both used to laugh at and mock with reckless abandon. jeremy went and threw his life away for him without considering how it would affect *her*. and that hurts like absolute hell.

"i knew you, tried to change the ending" - jeremy won't let injustice stand. he'll go back into the lions den to *try* and set things right, to take down advance, even though they're all surrounded and outnumbered and he's *scared* of going back to betterment. he'll double cross disrupt even though they helped him, because what they stand for *isn't right either*. he can't stand for any sort of injustice and jenny *knows* this. she knows this like the back of her hand.

"peter losing wendy" -these two nerdy bookworms would make references to all sorts of classic literature, fairytales, etc. anything and everything one might consider smart.

"i knew you'd haunt all of my what-ifs" - jenny haunted by jeremy's memory in the endings where he's no longer around. she thinks how would things be different?? would things be better? would her heart feel like more than just a half, beating on its own?

"i knew i'd curse you for the longest time." - the relationship between them filled with so many snide remarks and insults that serve as thin veils over their true feelings. but those are too deep, too hard to admit, so they take the easy way out & banter banter banter.

"you'd come back to me" - and he does!! if he can, he does!! and she does everything in her power to help him and/or hold him close to her, never wanting to let him go again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANYWAYS.... I know jeremy & jenny are intended to be a platonic duo (atleast according to the devs), but goshh, if this song doesn't have me all delusional and such about what they could've been lmao

[never-rpg]

NEVER PLOT DROP: A Game of Battle

The rock of the Battle arena was smooth and white, veined with grey, and this rock was different from the rest of the mountains. It was one of the reasons why Peter had declared it special and important. No matter how many times we fought there, or how much blood was spilled, the rock remained white and smooth. It was like the island swallowed up that blood and pushed it out again as magic, magic that kept us boys forever. It was a fanciful thought, but no more fanciful than that of the pirates thinking we drank from some magic spring for eternal youth.  — Lost Boy by Christina Henry

The sound of crowing rang out to draw the attention of the Lost Boys as they crowded into the arena: who would be fighting who was announced, rules reminded without much care. This was a Battle for fun, just a game. It was practice for promises of even greater fun. The first to bleed would lose and be out of the game. The game would continue until there was only one Lost Boy who hadn’t shed a single drop. The game wouldn’t end until they had their Battle Champion. 

Below the cut you’ll find the results of the game. Writers are encouraged to explore this plot drop through any means they’d like: drabbles, edits, threads, asks, etc. Gloat, lick your wounds, plot your revenge, question your life choices in whatever fashion you please! As always, if you have questions or are seeking more of that sweet, sweet lore, feel free ask for clarification or details!

ROUND 1 Curly vs. Echo — Echo Wins Bandit vs. Bones — Bandit Wins Sawyer vs. Rufio — Rufio Wins Flint vs. Wendy — Wendy Wins Ace vs. Davie — Ace Wins ROUND 2 Bandit vs. Wendy — Bandit Wins Ace vs. Echo — Echo Wins 

ROUND 3 Rufio vs. Echo — Rufio Wins 

ROUND 4 Bandit vs. Rufio — To Be Announced

[the1975attheirverybest]

Are you saying that because she only ever writes about stuff that the public already knows, and the public didn’t know about matty back when folklore and evermore came out, then it can’t be about him? Is that what’s happening? //

Yeah 😭 I’m not saying that it’s 100% impossible that she put some Matty references in folklore and evermore, considering that Taylor always encouraged people to paternity test her songs (like the secret messages in her album booklets), I bambini think she only wrote about Matty in ttpd

You are most likely correct or at least that’s the official narrative. Like as she said, she wanted to see if she could write fictionalized stories or pull from experiences other than her own (at least that’s what I think she said? I’m not sure). And that’s important for an artist to do/ a way to mature. Like it’s one thing to write only from your pov but to be able to tell stories other than your own is even harder.

The desire for her to have written about matty/ matty to have written about her maybe comes from people wanting the story/ fairytale. Like they wanted each other for so long and thought about each other forever etc etc.

Ultimately we don’t know the truth and we may never know. I do think that it’s a bit annoying how her fans only ever wanna talk about the songs in relation to her real life and decide “this song must be about the day they x happened or she was photographed at y” so that’s why I was talking about “Peter” on TTPD in connection to “Peter losing Wendy” not so much in connection to Matty or whatever. Like just her referencing her own lyrics not her talking about a specific person.

Having said that, though. It’s hard for me to say she didn’t do this / create this speculation herself. Idk. Ultimately they’re good songs! Whomever they’re about!

[atwistedtalehq]

CHARACTER NAME: peter pan CHARACTER FACECLAIM: maxence danet-fauvel CHARACTER AGE/DOB (if from enchanted forest, general age okay): unknown, he's long since forgotten CHARACTER PRONOUNS/GENDER IDENTITY/SEXUALITY ETC: he/him, non binary but also in the 'i dont know the word for this but if i did ooh that!!', bisexual/romantic/polyam CHARACTER FANDOM: general fairytales but once upon a time based OC OR CANON: canon ish??? WHICH LAND ARE THEY FROM (examples: earth, enchanted forest, wonderland, monsterland [frankenstein, dracula, vamps etc], neverland): earth, neverland, the enchanted forest CHARACTER BIOGRAPHY: the story of peter pan starts with tragedy. with sadness-- with a baby going missing, only to be found and saved by fairies. with a boy, suddenly filled with magic and belonging in a wonderful place where nobody need grow up nor be alone ever again, for they will be with those just like them. the lost boys. and peter soldifies his own fate for himself, on the day he goes back to visit his family. upon seeing a new baby, a replacement, he knows he can never go back. he knows, neverland is his true home and won't ever betray him.

and so, there he remains. losing all sense of time and soon with it, all memory of there ever being anything before this.

but in spite of his endless adventures, of the stories he tells and hears and weaves himself into, peter still gets hit by the cold wave of loneliness. being leader to the lost boys is something he would never change. but… perhaps having someone at his side, someone to tell the stories with, might be better.

and this is how, he meets the darlings. how he comes to know wendy.

from there, the story plays out as we know. they have their adventures, but eventually, wendy comes to the conclusion she and her brothers must return home. and while eventually, peter allows this fate to play out, something different happens for him in the aftermath…

upon attempting to return to neverland, peter finds himself lost. unable to follow the changing stars, perhaps his heart has changed too much. and as such, he loses his way. this, is how he comes to the enchanted forest. falling through an open portal, pulled into another land. one where, in spite of all his best attempts… he must grow up.

lost, away from the only home he could ever remember, peter begins to lean on magic far more than he ever had: he learns other ways to use magic, since the power of belief doesn't quite work the same in the enchanted forest. however, at his heart, he is still a good person. just a little lost and confused. and so, he becomes something of a wish granted. a helpful hand upon journeys. someone that can be called upon.

until, that is, a curse whisks him away to yet another land. however, this time… one far more familiar. albeit, one he ends up just as trapped in.

admin alex app.

[snonkerdoodledreams]

Here's how I can relate to this song. If you feel comfortable, share your story in a reblog.

When I wake up to the sound of demons

They're always telling me that I'm no good

And all the angels keep scratching at my door

I come out of my daydream to hear my mother yelling at me. I come out of my daydream to find that my friends aren't paying attention to me because I spaced out. (This is why I dont like to come out of daydreams.)

I'm doing what I can to fight this anger

I'm just a product of a living hell

Over time, I've numbed to the effects of her yelling--her telling me that I'm worthless, shouldn't have been born, etc etc. And that's not how she is all the time, and that's what makes the situation like hell--she's bad enough to cause damage, but acts in such a way that nobody, sometimes not even me, can see the damage she inflicts.

And I don't wanna live like this no more

Agreed.

Everything is crumbling in my head

Sometimes I feel like nothing's wrong

Sometimes I wish I was

Normal.

But maybe I'm not alone

Maybe if you take my hand

And I reach up to God

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for the damned

What have I got to lose

When I've already lost it all

I had it lost from the beginning. I still have some things. Many things. But that doesn't mean I still didn't lose some of the most important stuff.

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for

Say a prayer for the damned

For the damned

Have you ever been abused by someone

So brutal that it chills your soul?

Yes.

Have you ever been afraid of your own ghost?

Sometimes I welcome it, which makes me scared.

I'm just a creature of a broken past

Too close to home. Haha, get it?

We're all looking for a second chance

And I don't wanna live like this no more

And all the madness rages in my head

It feels like a total shit show in there sometimes. I'll be denying my abuse one minute, drained the next, filled with anger at my mother the moment after that, and it just goes on and on.

Sometimes I wish I was

But maybe I'm not alone

Maybe if you take my hand

And I reach up to God

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for the damned

What have I got to lose

When I've already lost it all?

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for

Say a prayer for the damned

We are not alone

Sometimes I feel that way though. Like nobody has the kind of dysfunctional family I do. That nobody has parents who have a codependent relationship, that my dad is Wendy and my mother is Peter.

It's darkest before the hope

It was. It was bad before I went to therapy. Therapy helped.

Well, you and I, we're not alone

But I can't stick with my own dad. My sister's too young. My mom's the abuser. And nobody's going through what I'm going through.

Maybe I'm not alone

Maybe if you take my hand

And I reach up to God

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for the damned

What have we got to lose

When we've already lost it all?

Maybe this time he'll say a prayer for

Say a prayer for the damned

for the damned

(Say a prayer for the damned)

(Say a prayer for the damned)

(Say a prayer for the)

[hockeytwittereats]

Going to add onto this because for a while @wavesoutbeingtossed has talked about how Joe shows up a lot with night sky/galaxy.

I've been intrigued how the story of Peter and Wendy actually plays into all of this for a while now. The "Peter losing Wendy" line in Cardigan is interesting, but Wendy by Maisie Peters is the first song that really sent me down a rabbit hole.

Peter and Wendy is basically how Peter loses Wendy. Peter absolutely does not want Wendy to return to London from Neverland. He tries to put bars on her house she she cannot return. Peter does initially come back and get her for a visit to Neverland, but he eventually forgets. Over time Wendy gets married (to a lost boy who was adopted by her family, this is in the epilogue according to Wikipedia) and has a daughter. In short, she grows up while Peter stays forever young.

Taylor writing Peter on an album that really gets to the whole issue of being a woman over 30 who wants a family: the men who are your age (generally) are not ready to settle down yet or if they are, they don't get the urgency to have kids. They can just trade you in for a newer model when they're ready.

I don't want to get into the whole muse debate too much, but I don't think the 25 is really setting a particular age for the muse, but the idea that they are "25" aka they still have time to get married, have kids etc and they aren't in a rush. Just wait some time and he'll be ready to marry her, start a family and all that comes back with that. But as a woman over 30, she cannot just wait for him to be ready. She needs steps taken in that direction. And when they are not taken, she turned off the light.

I know Peter has questionable muse thoughts, but it is 100% Joe because jetstream, night sky/galaxy motif, and the fact Peter Pan always came back for Wendy until he forgot and then she married someone else.

[taylortruther]

for me it’s cardigan and hoax that paint a very consistent picture, though it feels like a first verse joe, second verse masters thing for me for hoax. ���only one” / “eclipsed sun” and then “give me a reason” and “faithless love” which shift based on what she’s referring to but feel extremely like the kinds of images that could come from a fight about infidelity. cardigan feels like part two where the feelings are still raw but they’re drifting towards reconciliation. all of this gels with what she said in lpss imo!

with cardigan “peter losing wendy” (as in someone who refused to grow up) aligns so poignantly to me with other playboy-type lyrics she’s written about joe, among other things. there are other lyrics but it being written first on the album is a tell to me, esp. with “chase two girls, lose the one” being in the voice memo version.

anyway this is my truth about hoax.

🚨 this is just tossing ideas out/sharing theories, for the hell of it, no one be too weird about this okay 🚨

i've always wondered if hoax was infidelity or simply just a lack of shared vision for the relationship. and if cardigan is autobiographical (as most of the songs on folkmore are), then the connection can definitely be made. that line about "chase two girls, lose the one" absolutely struck a lot of people when it was first released; personally, i remember wondering if it was a breakup song (which you can argue it might be, but perhaps not for taylor and joe, perhaps that's where the fear or fictionalization came out.) i also wondered if it was a sign of a rough patch, or a throwback to their very early relationship stages, where taylor seemed to express doubts that she was the only person he was seeing. THAT SAID, i do feel more comfortable wondering, out loud, if it was indeed a sign of infidelity. and your theories make sense imo.

for me, as we've learned more about their relationship, i tend to associate hoax more strongly with peace and renegade. the faithless love, her heart being beaten, etc might paint a picture of someone who maybe has sentenced themselves to enduring a partner who didn't share her vision of their life or future together. i think i said in one of my early hoax posts that it would be devastating to find your person and learn they had doubts you would last.

and then we got so many songs about wanting to flee, hoping someone understood she couldn't control all aspects of her life (peace), and wanting this person to open up to her and be all in with her (renegade.)

[bybdolan]

cardigan is fezlexicore i am afraid

[artsysurvivor]

[Image ID: Two pages and four rows of the complete lyrics that are marked up with notes and highlights. There are three sections

Section 1, Betty:

"... You heard the rumors from Inez (Arald)

You can't believe a word she says

Most times, but this time was true.

The worst thing that I ever did

Was what (the next part is underlined) I did to you" -> He fell in love with Crowley, don't want to say cheated on her

"But if I just showed up at your party,

Would you have me?

Would you want me?

Would you tell me to go fuck myself?

Or lead me to the garden?

In the garden would you trust me

If I told you it was just a (next part is highlighted in yellow) summer thing?" -> summer represents the first war with Morgarath, when Halt and Crowley were really close to each other

"... I was no where to be found

I hate crowds, you know that

Plus, I saw you (Pauline) dance with him" -> he was overwhelmed and anxious, so he kinda left, let's say, he was a bit jealous and 'him' represents someone "better than him"

"... I was walking home on broken cobblestones

Just thinking of you when she (Crowley) pulled up like

A figment of me worst intentions"

"She said 'James, get in, let's drive'

Those days turned into nights" -> Crowley was already in love with Halt

"Slept next to her (Crowley), but

I dreamt of you (Pauline) all summer long" -> he knew he was doing something wrong

"Betty, I'm here on your doorstep

And I planned it out for weeks now

But it's finally sinkin' in

Betty, right now is the last time

I can dream about what happens when

You see my face again" -> he loves her and he's worried that she'll hate him now

"The only thing I wanna do

Is make it up to you" -> really loves her

"... Yeah I showed up at your party

Will you have me?

Will you love me?" he's beggin atp

(highlighted in green) "Will you kiss me on the porch"

"... I'm only 17, I don't know anything

But I know I miss you" (in an extended way) love

"Standing in (highlighted in yellow) your cardigan

Kissin' in my car again

Stopped at a streetlight

You know I miss you" he cared about Pauline deeply, didn't intend to hurt her, it just sort of happened

Section 2, Cardigan - Pauline's POV

"Vintage tee, brand new phone

High heels on cobblestones

When you are young, they assume you know nothing

Sequin smile, black lipstick

Sensual Politics

When you are young, they assume you know nothing" I'd assume this is about Pauline's life, career, etc.

"But I knew you (Halt)

Dancin' in your Levi's

Drunk under a streetlight, I

I knew you

Hand under my sweatshirt

Baby, kiss it better"

"And when I felt like I was an old cardigan" ->not good enough or loveable

"Under someone's bed

You put me on and said I was your favorite" ->halt made her feel loved

"A friend to all is a friend to none

Chase two girls, lose the one

When you are young, they assume you know nothin'" ->she was mad at Halt and herself a bit

"But I knew you

Playing hide-and-seek and Giving me your weekends, I

I knew you

Your heartbeat on the High Line

Once in 20 lifetimes, I" she was in love with halt, he did everything for her

"... You drew stars around my scars" (scars is circled) my hc is that she was bullied as a kid and Halt help her to heal from the trauma

"But now I'm bleedin'" and he also hurt her a lot

"'Cause I knew you

Steppin' on the last train

Marked me like a bloodstain, I

I knew you

I tried to change the ending

Peter losing Wendy, I

I knew you

Leavin' like a father

Running like water, I

And when you are young, they assume you know nothing" ->how she feels dumb for falling in love with him

"But I knew you'd linger like a tattoo kiss

I knew you'd haunt all of my what-ifs" she's an overthinker, idc, it's canon

"... I knew I'd curse you for the longest time" ->hate towards Halt

"... I knew you'd miss me once the thrill expired" Halt wasn't so excited about Crowley anymore

"And you'd be standin' (highlighted in green) in my front porch light

And I knew you'd come back to me" -> he did

"You'd come back

And you'd come back to me

And you'd come back" how she doesn't know if she wants to have him back even though she still loves him

"And when I felt like an old (highlighted in yellow) cardigan

Under someone's bed

You put me on and said I was your favorite"

Section 3, August-Crowley's pov

"Salt air, and rust on your door

I never needed anything more

Whispers of 'Are you sure?'

'Never have I ever before'" he was in love with Halt the first time he saw him

"But I can see us lost in memory

August (-> =summer = war) slipped away into a moment in time

'Cause it was (underlined) never mine" he was sure that it won't last long

"... Your back beneath the sun

Wishin' I could write my name on it" -> he wanted Halt to remember him forever

"Will you call when you're back at school?

I remember thinkin' I had you" -> he's back at home, overthinking it all

"... Wanting was enough

For me, it was enough" self explanatory

"To live for the hope of it all" he never lost his hope

"Cancel plans just in case you'd call" he wanted Halt with him more than anything else

"'Cause you weren't mine to lose

You weren't mine to lose, no" he knew about Pauline and felt bad for feeling hurt

"... But do you remember?" he hoped Halt will never forget about it

"Remember when I pulled up and said, (highlighted in pink) 'Get in the car'"

(handwriting/highlighting ends here, but there's a little more lyrics until the song ends). /End ID]

Crowley/Halt/Pauline as the folklore love triangle

Here I go.

I'm gonna explain the folklore love triangle a bit. There are 3 songs. Betty, August and Cardigan. Betty is from James's pov, Cardigan from Betty's pov and August from Augustine's pov.

In my headcanon, Halt is James, Pauline is Betty and Crowley is Augustine.

Betty and James are in love/relationship, then James falls in love with Augustine, they have their 'summer love' and James goes back to Betty, because he realises that he loves her.

James is a cheater, which I don't want Halt to be so I think that there's no actual relationship between Halt and Pauline before the summer. They're just in love, doing silly romantic things and Pauline feels betrayed after the 'summer love', because she thought she was the only one for him.

Summer, in this case, symbolises the first war with Morgarath, when Halt and Crowley were fighting side by side and their relationship were deeper.

As we can see, Betty is a simple song, which only makes sense, because Halt is not really a poet. On the other hand, Cardigan is full of metaphors and fancy words, which suits Pauline.

Hope it makes sense a bit. There are the lyrics elaborated. (Ignore my bad handwriting.)