#personal group gnosis

[creature-wizard]

I don't know if I just haven't encountered it yet, but I haven't really seen anyone talking about or acknowledging something that's neither Unverified Personal Gnosis or Shared Personal Gnosis, but rather a third thing: Personal Group Gnosis.

PGG emerges from a small group of people having similar experiences to each other, which may or may not resemble anything that people outside of the group are experiencing.

This isn't inherently a bad thing. But among those who lack critical thinking skills, it can lead to some real trouble if they conclude that their similar experiences means that they're uncovering an actual objective truth, regardless of whether it's congruent with anything anyone outside of the group is experiencing.

One thing that many people fail to account for is the fact that they and their group generally share many of the same preconceptions and biases. For example, a group of younger Wiccans are very likely to believe in now-debunked ideas such as the great goddess hypothesis and the witch cult hypothesis. They'll believe in the existence of pagan gods, but they'll probably have a Christian-influenced understanding of divinity and morality, with little to no comprehension of the role that animism played in the development of pre-Christian traditions, nor with any real appreciation for how different values influenced the stories that people told about gods and other spirits.

They might even be exposed to similar media, which gives them all similar ideas about gods, spirits, and history. Even if they don't directly engage with the most popular media, it can still reach them through second or third hand exposure.

They're also likely reading the same spiritual, occult, and esoteric writers; or at least, reading people who have very similar ideas to one another.

And finally, since they're most likely friends and therefore trust each other, they are naturally biased toward accepting each other's experiences as valid, and working them into their own mental maps of the spiritual or metaphysical world.

In short, they're all primed to have very similar experiences to each other.

Without awareness that exposure to similar ideas can influence similar mystical experiences, it's very easy for a small group like this to generate a sort of shared map of reality that they feel justified in regarding as absolutely, objectively true.

It's at this point that people begin to feel confident telling you that if you just talked to your gods about what they're claiming, your gods would absolutely confirm them to be true. And if they don't, you were never really talking to those gods.

Having one's entire internal map of reality dictated by Personal Group Gnosis can be incredibly dangerous. It alienates you from the rest of the world by making you feel as if the only people you can trust are those who agree with your PGG. It can make you see outsiders as spiritually inferior, especially if they disagree with you outright. It can even encourage conspiracy thinking, because attributing what outsiders believe (or apparently believe) to the actions of a malicious conspiracy is a very common rationalization.

In other words, this is how you get a cult.

Now, a lot of people won't recognize it as a cult (and some will vehemently deny it's a cult) because it might not have a clear leader (though there's almost certainly a small number of people who have the most influence), and it probably doesn't have a financial goal. However, the destructive capacities of small groups of people living in their own reality cannot be denied. Members who don't go along with the group's accepted model of reality are often treated harshly, and are frequently targets for harassment. They may say that if you don't like it you can just leave, but let's be real, that's no simple matter if you believe that these are the only people with a real grip on reality, or if these people are basically your only friends, or even just your only friends who share your spiritual beliefs.

(If you're in this kind of situation? My advice is to start making more friends outside of this group. You don't have to cut yourself off from this group cold turkey; you can just start hanging out with other people more.)

Now, I'd like to emphasize that none of this is to say that PGG is inherently bad; I am only pointing out that it can be incredibly dangerous for people who lack knowledge, perspective, and critical thinking skills. Additionally, a group where there's a lot of this going on can be very dangerous for those who desperately just want to belong and get along, and push themselves to adopt their groups popular beliefs for fear of consequences.

Just like a single person's UPG doesn't dictate reality for everyone, neither does a single group's gnosis. PGG isn't inherently any better or more "correct" than UPG.

[avocad1s]

Bring Back What Once Was Mine

Chapter Summary: You learn of recent events that occurred in Teyvat and Lumine and Nahida search for your whereabouts.

Characters Mentioned: Nahida, Lumine, and some other surprises

Note: Part one did way better than I was expecting, thanks so much for all of the love on it :>

Content Warning: Cult and Religious themes ahead! You’ve been warned. Reader is the true creator of Teyvat. GN! Reader

Part One Part Two (You are here!) Part Three

This is partly beta read but it’s also the middle of the night and I’m half sleep so… yeah :)

At the same time, in another nation.

Despite not being the God of Wisdom, Morax, going by the name Zhongli now, would consider himself intelligent.

Yet this was the first time in centuries that he had felt this conflicted.

When his God first returned he was overjoyed, finally he would be able to talk with them again. Yet that feeling of ecstasy didn’t last long, soon he noticed something odd about their behavior.

At first he brushed it off, The Divine One was gone for a while and maybe during their journey the activities they used to enjoy didn’t make them happy anymore. Yet it was as if their entire personality had changed and he couldn’t help the feeling that kept growing in the back of his mind.

Doubt.

If anyone else knew about this, he knows for a fact he would be replaced and possibly killed by The Divine One themselves. So he pushed this feeling down, pretending that nothing was amiss for as long as he could.

Well until he decided to vacate his duties as the Geo Archon.

With the help of the Traveler he had planned his own funeral, and right after, he gave his Gnosis to the Fatui.

Even though the Traveler has questioned why he had given away his Gnosis to the nefarious group, she quickly let it go once Zhongli had explained the contract they had made. Despite not knowing the true details of the contract.

-

“So in exchange, you want my Gnosis?”

“Indeed. I think that’s a fair exchange, don’t you?”

“I agree… I accept the terms of this contract…”

“If things go as planned I will send one of my Harbingers to collect your Gnosis, Morax.”

-

Zhongli shakes his head clearing his mind of the conversation he had with the Tsaritsa in the past. He sips his tea mindlessly listening to his boss go on about another two for one deal she had thought of.

In Sumeru

“Where could they have run off to?” Paimon groans, “Paimon is getting super tired.”

“You don’t even walk, you float.” Lumine retorts a deadpan look on her face.

The fairy scoffs, “floating gets tiresome too you know!”

Lumine decides not to respond to Paimons defense on being tired, instead she looks down at Nahida who was walking closely next to her.

“Hey Nahida…” Lumine begins. “When you said you had your own suspicions, what did you mean?”

The Dendro Archon’s steps falter, “Traveler I have a lot of trust in you. You saved me from the Sages and done so much more for Sumeru and because of this I’ll tell you.”

Lumine stops walking putting her full attention on her. Paimon, who was just as curious, stops as well.

“Not long after you saved me and I noticed I had missed the descent of The Creator, I went into Irminsul to see what memories there was of them so I knew more about them.”

“Wait, Irminsul has memories of The Creator?” Paimon gasps.

Nahida nods, “Yes, The Creator is the one who made Teyvat after all. Anyways-“ The Archon brings her hand up to her chin, “All of the memories Irminsul had were complete contradictions to how they are now. The only thing that is the same is how they look.”

Lumine’s eyes widen, “so do you think… that the one we’re looking for is the true Creator?”

The girl let’s out a sigh, “Truthfully, I want to talk to them and get a read on them myself. There is a possibility they are the true God .”

“Does anyone else know about this? The Akademiya?”

Nahida shakes her head quickly, “This is very sensitive information and it could put others lives at risk, but I know that if I’m correct, you’d be the best one to help me.”

Lumine nods trying to ignore the feeling of dread crawling up her back.

“We should probably keep moving.”

Sumeru was much different than the last time you’ve seen it.

Besides it being more advanced, it gave off the feeling that it was more peaceful. Maybe the citizens finally started dreaming.

You let out a huff as you stare down at a river you had to cross. Normally, this wouldn’t be a problem since you would just use your abilities to do what you needed, but you were trying not to use your powers at all.

When you had gave out the Gnosis to the Seven Archons, you gave them a bit of your grace which is how they became Gods in the first place. Not only did the Gnosis give them the power to wield elemental energy without a vision but it also gave them a closer connection to you.

So anytime you use your abilities, the Archons would know.

You reach down pulling off your shoes, it was already annoying that you had to walk, the last thing you want to do is deal with wet shoes.

“Hey!” A high pitched voice called out, “I think I found them.”

You let out another sigh recognizing the voice instantly. It was that weird… floating… creature that tagged along with that outlander. The sound of hurried footsteps caused you to turn around.

You were right. It was the blonde girl and her companion but this time they were with someone else?

Your eyes widen a bit, but not enough to give away your shock.

This girl with them was definitely one of the Archons, the Dendro one to be exact. Yet this wasn’t the Dendro Archon the last time you had came to Teyvat so that must mean…

“We’ve been looking everywhere for you.” Lumine says in between breaths.

You smile, “I appreciate your care, but you didn’t have to go all out of your way just because you found me in the desert. I feel fine no-“

“I met The Creator.” Lumine interrupts, “you two share the same face.”

Well damn, you didn’t keep this a secret for very long.

“So you know…” you say calmly to them. They all share glances with each other then look back at you.

“How is that possible?” Paimon asks, “how can two Creators exist at the same time?”

You drop your shoe’s sliding them back on before crossing your arms, “well I’m guessing since you’re not attacking me or trying to arrest me you have your doubts about the ‘Creator’… I’m guessing that it’s Kusanali’s doing.”

The Archon gives you a perplexed look, “you know my name?”

You nod. “Of course I do, with my connection to Teyvat it would only make sense, right?”

Well there was no point in acting ignorant now, they had already confronted you with the information.

“So…” you drag out, “why did you come all the way out here to find me?”

Lumine leans back and forth on her feet awkwardly, “well actually The Creator…er-“ she was hesitant, as if she didn’t know what to call them, “they asked me to bring you to them.”

You nod understandingly, “and are you going to do as they asked?”

Lumine looks down at Nahida then back at you, “well after talking with Nahida, I have my doubts if they are truly who they say they are.”

You want to smile, but fight it. It seems that the God of Wisdom is still living up to the reputation. Even if it is someone else.

“Well I guess there’s no reason to lie anymore. I am who you believe but I have no way to prove it to you yet. It would make my presence more…noticeable to others.”

Nahida gives you a smile, “I believe you. Proof isn’t necessary.”

Lumine and Paimon whip their head to stare at the white haired girl, “what do you mean proof isn’t necessary? You just said-“

“I’m know.” She interjects, “but now that I am standing here face-to-face with them. I can feel the special connection that Irminsul and the scriptures deep within the Akademiya we’re talking about.”

Nahida looks back at you and continues, “Lumine, I’m not sure if you feel it but standing here with them now I feel a warmth that I don’t get from the one on the Throne. Not to mention that not a single monster had attacked us since we had gotten into a certain radius of them.”

Lumine’s jaw drops a bit as she watches Nahida give you a small bow a look of guilt in her eyes. “I apologize for my foolishness, I should’ve known that they weren’t who they say they were.”

This time you don’t fight the smile from forming on your lips, “you don’t have to apologize, whoever they are, them pretending to be me was supposed to be uncanny. If the Archons could tell from one look that they wasn’t The Creator then I doubt they would’ve tried.”

Lumine was still a bit unconvinced. She couldn’t trust Gods that easily since one had taken her brother away from her. However she does trust Nahida and if Nahida believes you are who you say, she will go along with it too. She hopes that she’ll have the time to ask you about the unknown God or even Khaenri'ah.

“So there’s actually something I wanted to ask you…” you sit down in the soft grass crossing your legs. “Being an Archon, I’m guessing you spent lots of time with the one on the throne right?”

Nahida nods.

“Could you tell me… have they changed anything?”

It was silent for a moment as the God of Wisdom hesitates to answer your question.

“Actually there is one thing.”

You perk up giving her your full attention.

“They want to invade Snezhnaya… They are trying to get the other Archons to declare war on the nation.”

“What!” You exclaim, “why? Why would they do that.”

“Well the Cryo Archon, the Tsaritsa, had closed off her nation a few years ago and won’t let anyone in, even them. No one is for sure why, but when one of her Harbingers were in Sumeru I tried to ask him and he said ‘we will all know eventually’”

“Oh Paimon remembers him,” you notice her shudder at the thought, “he was super creepy and dangerous!”

You let out a breath bring your hand up to you mouth, “I have to act quickly then. I can’t let that happen… Teyvat has already lost enough.” Your voice softens at the end, since you were mostly talking to yourself but judging from the looks on the girls faces, you assume they heard you.

“Is there anyway we can help?” Lumine asks suddenly. She didn’t even realize the words had left her mouth until it was too late, almost as if she had no control over herself anymore. Like she had the dying urge to help you.

You stare at her, “I’ve never met anyone who wanted to help a world they��re not even from. You’re different than others I’ve met.”

Your voice was so genuine and sweet that Lumine couldn’t help the smile that went across her face or the warm feeling the enveloped her at the sound of your praise.

“Well there is something you could do… all of you.” You stand from your spot on the ground, dusting any dirt off your clothing.

“Go along with the False Creator, make them believe you are loyal to them.”

“How can we do that?” The Traveler questions, “they said to bring you back.”

“Oh that’s right…” you mutter, “tell them I’m dead.”

“You want us to what?” Paimon shrieks.

“If the False Creator believes I’m dead they’ll stop looking for me and then no one else will be aware of my existence.”

“Wait, what are you going to do?” Nahida says.

“I’m heading to Liyue.” You simply explain.

“Alone?” Lumine says, “I can go with you. A lot of people trust me in Liyue.”

You give her a smile, despite how reserved she seemed to be when you had first told them about your true nature. Now she was basically jumping at the idea of helping you, maybe you had a stronger affect on her than she wants to admit.

“Thanks but I’ll be fine. I’m used to traveling alone anyways.”

The Traveler deflates a bit when you decline but nods.

“I’m counting on you… Lumine, Nahida, and Paimon.” You confess as you walk back toward the body of water you had plans to cross until they had interrupted.

The group of girls watch you walk off, once you were out of sight, they turn around heading back towards Sumeru City.

“What are we going to do now.” Paimon says once they start walking back.

“You two should tell the False Creator that they are dead, I’m going to enter Irminsul and see if I can find anything that will help.”

Lumine nods.

Once again the Traveler was thrown off their journey of meeting the Seven, but for once, she actually didn’t mind it one bit.

Note: I got a bit carried away with this part… and this isn’t how I wanted to end it originally. But I’ll just add that to part three instead.

© avocad1s please do not plagiarize or post to any other website

Taglist: @esthelily

if you’d like to be added, you can send an ask or just comment below. :>

[thrashkink-coven]

Hi! I saw your post about the appropriation of religious imagery by extremest hate groups (a good post, I share your feelings of frustration) at the end you made a vague statement about the satanic temple and was wondering if you could elaborate on what happened there? They are a group I admittedly only have passing knowledge of, but what I have seen has usually been pro LGBTQ advocacy or similar things. Not that I don't believe you- I don't really interact with large institutions because they tend to become inevitably corrupt and have inherent gatekeeping, but I was wondering if you wouldn't mind explaining what exactly or which extremist propaganda they have been aligning with recently? Or is it just because they are generally anti-theistic?

(I have, in fact, been almost literally living under a rock the past few years so I apologize if the answer is something obvious, but I couldn't seem to find anything with cursory searches so thought asking someone in the community would be a better source)

I couldn’t even begin to outline all of the terrible shit the leaders and founders of The Satanic Temple have done over the years. They are a group of alt white scammers using progressive ideology and leftist sympathy to fill their pockets. They use their image to pray on young women at sex parties and employ real cult tactics to isolate and abuse them. They are a company comprised of sexual abusers, manipulators, and fascists parading the name of Satan to manipulate actual Satanists and Luciferians into giving them money, despite never showing any real respect to those philosophies or religions. We all already know they’re not theistic satanists and they don’t really worship Satan, but they also have absolutely no relationship with Satanism or Luciferian gnosis. You cannot be a Luciferian or a Satanist and be friends with Nazis. Idgaf call me a gatekeeper. They just like to use the image of Satan for publicity stunts to ruffle the feathers of a few Christians. They do not embody the Luciferian spirit or the values of Satanism.

I have a deep hatred in my soul for Douglas Mesner and how much damage he has done to the image of Luciferianism and Satanism, not to mention the real world damage they have done to abortion advocacy groups. The strategic moves of opposing institutions that oppose LGBT rights has actually given a bad name to good faith organizations who already have enough negative stigma around them. Abortion advocacy groups don’t need the narrative that they’re sacrificing babies to Satan by being supported by the Temple of Satan on top of all the backlash they already receive by Christo-fascists.

They DO NOT use the money donated for abortion advocacy to help young mothers or to fight real cases of human rights abuse, they have never actually helped a real woman obtain healthcare. The leader himself openly admitted to taking money donated to the Satanic Temple to pay his personal bills.

Asides from the plethora of real accusations of sexual assault and violence against female members of the church itself, the leader Douglas Mesner has actively supported abusers and suppressed victims from WITHIN THE CHURCH!! (kicking them out, harassing them, threatening them lawsuits etc) from obtaining justice. They have never made any actual strides in the fight towards liberation and have actively supported real fascists for years now. Douglas Mesner has advocated for eugenics and made horrible anti semitic and racist comments in the past and continues to support alt right nationalists who actively spread hateful rhetoric. The lie they promote of wanting to protect women’s and LGBT rights is a well crafted marketing scheme to give them a good image while they abuse and manipulate their own members behind the scenes.

This is a fantastic video essay that dives deep into the history of the members and their controversies:

Genuinely, from the bottom of my heart,

FUCK THE SATANIC TEMPLE

There are of course members who are great people who truly take the philosophy to heart, who have seriously fought for liberation and have sadly had their empathy hijacked. But I don’t like cops and I don’t like people who support Douglas Mesner and his band of freaks. They cannot be trusted and they have done far more harm than good. Actions speak louder than words.

[razorblade180]

Aether:I don’t really care too much for Childe. He’s just sorta the poison I know.

Also Aether:Do you have job security? Cause there’s one gnosis left to get and you’ve been fumbling hard since we met. Personally I don’t want to see you in Natlan, but if you don’t show up, man….

Childe:*bandaged up* I can’t tell if you care or if you’re being snarky, but thank you for not throwing my vision away.

Aether:I mean I at least want you to have an honest effort! If I hear someone say “the ten Fatui harbingers” as a group name, I’m going to feel really bad.

[chicagognosis]

Spiritual discipline is what awakens us to divine reality, not belief.

Gnosis signifies knowledge from experience. Gnosticism, as a field of study, pertains to all the ancient schools of mysteries from both East and West, whose scriptures encompass the practical science of awakening consciousness. Gnosis is not isolated to the first Christians, but permeates all times, cultures, and spaces, for while consciousness is universal, the means of expressing such experiential wisdom of the divine is temporal and idiosyncratic to the language, mentality, and needs of a particular society.

Gnosis is what we have verified through experience and experimentation, predicated upon practical methods and personal effort. It is never the product of a belief system, of adopting a religious or mystical attitude, demeanor, or behavior. It is never achieved through attendance, adherence to, or acceptance from a group, by believing in doctrine or creed. It is the flowering and natural unfolding of the soul, which is created and developed when the proper causes and conditions have been met.

Just as there are laws that govern the physical universe, so too are there spiritual laws, causes, and methods to originate the soul: the awakening of the consciousness.

Therefore, the Greek term γνῶσις gnosis is synonymous with genuine faith. Faith has nothing to do with belief, with accepting or rejecting a concept in the mind or upholding a sentiment in the heart. Faith is what we know from facts, from witnessing and understanding reality. Belief takes no effort to foster or develop, whereas the awakening of consciousness and divine experience requires tremendous discipline and the application of spiritual works.

Read or listen to the entirety of this article:

[jotnasidr]

What is Jötnasiðr?

Jötnasiðr is a spiritual practice and system of magic channeled and received by practicing völva Emily Íviðja (@jaarnvidja) through contact with the Jötnar, the Norse primordial spirits of the cosmos and wild nature. This tradition is based in animism, folklore, Emily’s personal gnosis, and collaboration with other practitioners.

Who are the Jötnar?

The Jötnar (singular “jötunn”), are a group of spirits and divinities described in Northern mythos and folklore. They are commonly referred to as “giants” and “frost giants”. This is somewhat of a misnomer. The word “jötunn” (Old English: eoten) actually translates to devourer, or “one who consumes”. This clues us in to their true nature. The Jötnar are embodiments of primordial natural forces, particularly those outside human influence. They are ancient beings with the power to create and destroy, to birth and devour. They are ambiguous and neutral-aligned. This is evident throughout the sagas and Eddic texts. Many Jötnar, such as Ægir, Mímir, Ská��i, and Gerðr, are friends of the gods (Aesir and Vanir groups) or have married into them. Other Jötnar like Surtr, Jörmungandr, and Fenrir are placed in opposition to the Aesir and Vanir. This has resulted in many Jötnar becoming demonized due to the Christian lense through which the Norse myths were written and transcribed. This demonization directly opposes the historical Northern European pagan worldview, which was based in animism, where nothing is black nor white. In this tradition, we seek to heal the rift between Midgardians and the Jötnar so that we may better understand and connect with these ancient divinities who deserve our reverence just as the Aesir and Vanir spirits do.

The Values of Jötnasiðr

Jötnasiðr is an animist practice. Animism is the belief that everything has a spirit or soul and is thus conscious. These spirits and energies can be communed with and worked with in order to garner wisdom and channel magic energy into rituals and spells. A practitioner of Jötnasiðr will treat everything in the world with respect and compassion. We do not see the world as mundane nor magical - everything is connected and intertwined. We work along with the energies of our environments, connecting to the ancient rhythms of Jörð (the Earth), in order to walk our Path and practice our Way.

What Jötnasiðr is NOT

Jötnasiðr is an inclusive practice. It is not homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, racist, or white supremacist. Hatred and prejudice towards others is not welcome. This is not the way of the Jötnar. Jötnasiðr is not associated with Þursatrú or Raven Kaldera’s Northern Tradition Paganism/Rökkatrú.

[helly-watermelonsmellinfellon]

*SPOILERS* ARLECCHINO STORY QUEST!

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So, ppl are mad the Traveler lost to Arlecchino...

The Traveler bodied Childe and Signora in simple 1 V 1 fights. Even when their opponents got to use power-ups, the Traveler remained the same.

Scaramouche, when by himself and not capitalizing off of Tatarigami in the atmosphere, is not a threat to the Traveler despite what he thinks. The people was the most threat to were Fatui grunts and random civilians without Visions.

People need to be honest about his Boss Fight. It was cool and flashy, and also lame. When ppl try hyping him up as soooo dangerous because the Traveler failed to defeat him in a dream 168 times, they conveniently ignore how his ass got so easily tricked into a dream in the first place. They ignore a lot about his Boss Fight actually.

1.) His own body was insufficient for 'godhood'. He needed to rely on a group of 'feeble humans' to create a better puppet body for one. He couldn't do it.

2.) That larger puppet body was capable of channeling multiple elements, which he was not shown to be capable of at all in any of the times he showed up prior to that. Signora even said he only had his rank because he could take more pain and suffering than most and was effectively impossible to kill/destroy.

3.) The puppet body was powered by a Gnosis, which was not his and was not original intended for his use specifically. The Gnosis was used to amplify the larger puppet's elemental abilities.

4.) He was hooked up to that larger puppet for months and had the scholars funneling all kinds of canned knowledge into his vessel to make a new god. None of that information was learned by himself. He needed humans to hook him up to a system they created and needed them to inject it into his mind for him. He did none of that work.

5.) The Shouki no Kami was a result of the efforts of a bunch of humans. All he did was sit there and let them shove tubes in his back. It was probably painful but becoming a 'god' was through barely any personal effort of his own. It was other people doing all the work.

6.) The people of Sumeru City were forced into a 168-day Samsara to collect knowledge, wisdom, and jnana energy for the larger puppet body. Dragging the Traveler for needing all 168 versions of the dream fight to be in their mind and having 1K ppl crowd-source a solution for the official fight, isn't it. Scaramouche needed 168 days of content from those same 1K people to help power his fancy mech suit in the first place.

The Traveler defeating him makes complete sense. Dude somehow lost even with a Gnosis in his possession and the Traveler didn't have a Gnosis to use. The Traveler wasn't even using all the Elements they have access to. Or a better weapon.

Arlecchino has her Blood Fire Curse, a Pyro Vision, and a Pyro Delusion all going at once. She is way more powerful than Childe, Signora, and base Scaramouche all put together. Her curse thing gives her power we don't even understand. We cannot properly evaluate her true threat level because we don't know what it does, or how it works.

The other three were predictable in battle once the Traveler got used to them. That's cuz the power sources make enough sense. Vision = primitive Gnosis that grants specific Elemental Power. Delusion = Vision Wannabe + negative health effects. Gnosis = Elemental Power Amplifier for gods. But the Blood Fire Curse thing? That's new. There's nothing like it anywhere else for the Traveler to learn about it or compare it to.

Also, the Traveler was not going all out because Arlecchino was not going all out either. The Traveler knew that she was testing her children and also knew the fight wasn't really theirs. She had already planned for the fight to happen and wanted the Traveler to protect the children if the time came, but it was not really their fight because they were not enemies. That's why Lyney, Lynette, and Freminet's attacks all appear during the battle and why they're talking the whole time. This was their fight with the Traveler as a back-up.

The children had to show a sufficient level of skill and improvement for Arlecchino to change the punishment they were due, but she was the one to choose when the demonstration ended. The Traveler was the only one still standing by the end, and Arlecchino used her curse to make eye contact and Tsukuyomi them and then manipulated their body into being unable to move(bloodbending???) to defend themself while she came at them.

How do you fight what you do not know? The twins got bodied by the Sustainer... because they didn't know what her powers were or what they were capable of. If they went into that battle with all the knowledge already, it probably would have ended very differently. That's just how it goes. That's why everyone wonders what the rematch will be like, especially with all the Elements and that weird golden power on the Traveler's side.

Ranks actually matter for the Harbingers. Arlecchino being #4 means she's very high up there. The Traveler has defeated every Harbinger Boss up until now and it's actually good that they didn't win this one. Even if it wasn't a real fight on their behalf, they got a good look into what the highest-ranking Harbingers are capable of. And that will serve as a lesson. She was only #4, could do all of that shit, and there are still 3 people above her.

This served as a good lesson on the dangers of hubris imo. If the Traveler beat her with all that shit she did while the Traveler wasn't trying their best, I'd be pissed.

[hunterkhean]

HEAR ME OUT

SWAP AU CAPINICH 👀

Ideas Under the cut... Beware it's a LONG rambling

Kinich being the 1st Harbinger and Capitano being the guy from Natlan, like... Capitano Didn't Leave Natlan at all and end up Staying in the Master of the Night-Wind and becoming Mavuika's Advisor.

While After Reassured from the Night Kingdom Kinich Decide to "Fuck this shit I'm out" Like it's the Last straw for him so He Yeet himself out of Natlan, End up meeting one lf the Harbinger idk Who My Brain haven't process it Enough, Joining the Fatui and Rise up the rank. (ajaw is Along the ride too)

A few Years Later Return to Natlan for the Gnoses End up Got Wind up into the War Because He apparently Have one of the Important Ancient Name- the difference is he's not the idiot that would challenge Mavuika (He was Planning to get the Gnosis By NOT getting Beat up by the pyro archon), Ajaw is the idiot... Kinich got Dragged into it.

And it was Capitano's Sword that got fucking Shattered to pieces....

So the whole Swap AU in my Idea is Kinich just trying to do his Job but Ajaw keep dragging him into Situation he have 0 fuck about, Mavuika Trying to Convince him to Change Side to Natlan again But That works out pretty well... (sarcastically)

Ororon still end up Helping The Fatui, Capitano is the guy he ran to to make Excuses... Capitano Knows The whole Ordeal- he's trying to tell Mavuika but Mavuika is too occupied about the Fact that they need Kinich on their side. and she just point at Capitano and like "You! You're good at Convincing People! Convince him to work with us"

That went well, First time He tried to talk To kinich he got a Claymore Aim at his neck, I can imagine Harbinger Kinich being both Mentally Exausted and a Feral Jungle child... He wont be a Threat unless the person stand too close then He'll bite.

The Second time he tried to talk to Kinich... Yea Didn't go well Either, Kinich swing away from him and He lost him even if he tried to follow using his Vision... Which Makes Capitano Question what the fuck does Ororon Meant by The 1st Harbinger being easy to talk too-

The third time he finally Manage... Surprisingly Kinichw as the first one to Approach. Little Feral shit Came up to his window in the middle of the night almost Gave him a fright apparently He's there to Give Capitano a New Sword, Kinich Personality didn't change when it coems to Cost and Payment.

The fourth was Where Capitano Saves Him from a Few Abyss... It's embarrassing That the 1st Harbinger need to be saved so they both Keep it to themselves.

Since then it would be easier to encounter because Apparently After a Small talk that night Capitano Had The Incident we all know well as "Naming a Stray Cat" And Cat people know if you name a stray cat they'll follow you home.

Let's just say Kinich end up working with The Archon...

He also Follow Capitano around like a Lost dog, but would hiss whenever Capitano or anyone get close... Ajaw is like... His translator because sometimes Kinich would Only hiss or growl (Being ressurected and join a group of Fucked up weirdos really fuck the Guy over ngl, Even Ajaw need to be the Rational one sometimes)

"The First Harbinger Haven't Return to Snezhnaya? I wonder why...👀" Kinich is NOT leaving Capitano, he'll Leave Him for like a few hours to do his own work but there's not a day where Kinich can't be Found near The Pyro Archon's Advisor, even if it's a Few feet away or above a tree or on the opposite wall.

He also Steals Capitano's Helmet, waddle away with it.

Capitano felt like he's dealing with Tarzan but the Tarzan is actually very intelligent... Kinich just... Tend to act Feral and Doesn't speak much, He knows more than he lets on.

I was gonna say They'll End up havign that One Httyd Scene where Toothless tried to impress the Light Fury... Kinich is toothless, Capitano is the Light Fury and Ajaw Is Hiccup- that's how silly and chaotic Swap AU dynamic gonna be

So Swap AU is... Kinich brain is mostly detact from Understanding Humanity because of how fucked up he had become after all the shit he's been through (especially the fact that People from Natlan never Leave their Nation, Kinich would be the first to do that... Being away from the Wayob while Holding an ancient name would definitely fuck up a but part of his brain)... but he's still hold the same Intelligent mind as his normal self kust not about Human understanding, Should've stayed in Natlan kid

Swap AU Capitano is Personality Wise Tend to get a bit More frustrated by things (People's Bullshits kind of things), But maintain His usual calm and Rstional Mind... He doesn't Battle Much but would still Be as strong as The Original, He'll be Mostly focusing on Master of the Night-Wind Scrolls and Being The Right Mind of the Pyro Archon when she's A Bit too Emotional to Be Rational (Stopping her from sacraficing herself for example).

Im sorry I'm rambling

I just have to get this out of my head, Feel Free to use this Idea I dont mind.

I'll make silly art of this when I have the time lol

[exoticalmonde]

LUNDInium Outskirts /but it's her insane doodles/ PART VII

I see that a lot of you have been enjoying me posting about our silly Arknights shenanigans, aided by my wonderful company of sillies. So, while we're waiting for me to not be dying from my schoolwork and post more Babel, have some long-awaited doodles.

This time there are just going to be a lot more memes rather than art, because we love all our artists and they work on their own volition.

Me: *Complaining about not having Gnosis* Lundi, a Sankta: *Pushes Gnosis down the stairs* Gnosis: *Falls* Me: *'Just happening' to pass by so I catch him right before he hits the ground* "Oya? Did an angel send you to me?" Gnosis: "…….." Lundi:

---

The context was lost for a little, but Dr. Lundi is here with me as I am making the post to remind us all that this thing Zamboni-looking thing exists on one of the Laterano maps:

And that she, as a Sankta, can't, in fact, drive.

---

(I drew this one personally now that I have my tablet again)

---

After this conversation, I immediately requested it and Dr. Lundi being the devoted horse-respecter can't let an old man sleep just anywhere, he's going to get cramped up 6 knots to Sunday.

Yes, Hoederer has a tail. In my head, but he has to have a tail because I love him and he deserves to have one.

The Aegir in our group however got uh---

---

This is just funny on its own, no silly doodle here.

---

HEY I WANT TO SAY THAT I REALLY DESERVED THAT STAR

Not only did I do the ENTIRE CC on my own without guidance, I thought for my own and used my own characters no matter how powerless they were (Thank you, Totter, for being the MVP of this map and letting me get dinner AND eat it while you were working on the coral freaks) AND I ALSO HELPED DR. KRYO WITH IT WHILE HE WAS STRUGGLING, SO THANK YOU FOR COMING TO MY 'your did it' AWARDS, IM GLAD TO BE HERE!

---

He's coming soon, almost less than two months??? GO DR. LUNDI, HE IS SO GUARANTEED FOR YOU I SINCERELY HOPE SHE GETS HIM 10 TIMES IN A SINGLE 10-PULL IT'S SO DESERVED.

---

Ela and Doc appreciation doodle.

---

'Today' means 24th of October. Why am I being messaged this unprovoked?

Because it's ... National Throw Short People Day and Dr. Eve is the shortest of the group.

DURING THIS WE ALSO CELEBRATE DR. KRYO GETTING HIS TABLET. Everybody chap.

---

Dr. Kryo's tablet actually unabled him to do a lot more doodles and he has been making AMAZING progress. To say that I'm proud would be an understatement, I can't wait for him to surpass us all in passion and dedication. That also means +1 person to make memes.

Speaking of which,

---

Although I am not French, I have a great appreciation for the language and from a previous post you might gage that I like the idea of it existing.... Despite all facts proving in the opposite direction.

And that passion of mine was unlocked when Doc hit the world. However, ulterior motives and hidden opinions were revealed during those times.

Like whatever

THIS THING IS---- DR. PLEASE STOP, YOU'RE MAKING A 39 YEAR OLD CRY IN THE OPEN!!!

---

Dr. Lundi: "…" Młynar: "..."

Later Młynar: "So it all started the day my brother was taken away…" Dr. Lundi : *Nods enthusiastically in the patient's chair*

[notthesomefather]

UPG vs. SPG vs. Canon

UPG - user's / unique personal gnosis SPG - shared personal gnosis Canonical - what is in the source materials and/or what is most commonly believed across communities/practitioners/etc.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what we call UPG and how we interact with UPG vs something considered to be canon or shared gnosis. I believe it's incredibly useful to call out experiences, notions, and correlations that we have personally experienced or felt drawn towards. Through doing so, we establish shared gnosis within groups or across online communities and help keep the old gods alive with new sparks of life. But when does UPG become SPG and when does SPG become canonical to the faith? Is it important to differentiate and if so when/to what degree?

Heathenry doesn't have a rule-book or sacred texts, so I feel we have a lot of freedom with what constitutes "canon." What does Loki represent? Up to you! How do we celebrate a wedding? Up to you! What is the ritual for contacting deceased loved ones? Up to you! Are Frigg and Freyja different? Up to you! We have some sources that remain, and while they can be incredibly useful, they are all locked within a far-off sociological context and we know we are missing considerable details. We can utilize these sources and archaeology for best guesses as to practices that were practiced historically, but at the end of the day a lot of it is just that: a guess. A well-educated guess to be sure, but nothing close to a universal "heathen" theology.

So why do I bring this up?

I see a lot of apologies and fear related to "upg." People worry it isn't legitimate to experience something they don't see widely reflected in texts or within groups. I want to tell anyone who's had those fears: this is normal! We are discussing working with and/or worshiping ethereal beings that operate outside the confines of our sense of time and space--we are going to experience these entities differently. Maybe even differently than how we did in previous years of our own practices. This goes hand in hand with the idea of not prescribing our upg onto others. We may experience something incredibly real and powerful, but we may be alone in the specifics of that experience. That is in no way indicative of the upg being fake, invalid, or incorrect, and there is no need to force this upg onto others.

In short: don't worry about what's "canonical." It is a living, breathing faith that is currently undergoing a large resurgence and shake up. Let's help construct the canon together, and let's not be afraid to share our unique experiences with the divine.

[tenebrisdivina]

Lord Abaddon

artist: Jang Yeunjae on artstation

Disclaimer: Lord Abaddon who I am connecting with and is my patron (as with the other demonic divine I mention on this blog) is from an outer realm multiverse (spoken about in more detail elsewhere on my blog.) This information and gnosis about Lord Abaddon is from the level that I am connecting with Him on. It is my belief that there are multiple individual beings who appear under the same “name” – especially with the demonic divine (also explained in more detail in other posts). So basically, who I am connecting with and the level that I do, is not likely who others are connecting with- since most practitioners or those working with demons connect with inner realm beings. There is a striking energetic difference among other things.

Side note on angels: Angels/angelic beings (especially in the outer realms- are not what humans typically think of) are not all aligned with light or such inner realm beings- like the earthen realm “yahweh” or even other gods. Angels often are aligned with a source well/point – as it was explained to me, not a deity in particular. It also may not even be so “distinct” as that. This is also true of outer multiverse Fallen Angels. This however is a complex topic and I digress

Lord Abaddon as I know Him is the Dark Lord and High Lord of the Abyssal Angels (species of dark angelic beings). Lord Abaddon is an angelic being. Energy wise He is at base an Abyssal Angel (this is not a fallen angel though) and does not carry at His core demonic energy. However, He is suffused with and often permeates and presents with a more demonic energy. There is an interesting mix of energies, but at His core Lord Abaddon is still an angelic being. He has no connection to Apollo either- especially since Lord Abaddon is an outer realm being.

One of Lord Abaddon’s main territories is the Aether above the Abyss. The ethereal realm that resides over the watery abyss-which is Lord Leviathans domain. There are multiple “abyss’s” in existence- some more inner realm- which includes earthen and associated areas. The one I am speaking of here is the Outer Multiverse Realm area/world - which is basically vast oceans. In the Outer Multiverse where these demonic divine beings are- the nature of the environment where the different species/groups reside in- informs Their species energies, behaviour, and personal traits in quite a direct way. For example, generally Abyssal beings among other things; are known to have great emotional intelligence, interpretation, understanding and mastery. This is also the case with Lord Abaddon and the Abyssal Angels. Because They reside above the Abyss, They carry the emotional intelligence and mastery of the Abyssal beings, however there is also a more aerial intellectual aspect to this as well, then just pure emotional mastery and intelligence. Given the aetheric aspects the Abyssal Angels also culminate Knowledge and Wisdom and are very well learned and excellent teachers, as well as being formidable warriors. Most have especial interest in more forbidden and hidden learnings and mysteries.

In the inner realms the Abyss can correspond to the internal abyss and emotional depths, an abyssal area and “journey/practice” as in “crossing the abyss” or the Qliphotic sphere of Da’ath among other things. Lord Abaddon can aid and be linked to all these areas; though the area He is most present with is Da’ath- and all that represents and entails. He is an excellent guide in crossing the abyss.

 Lord Abaddon is The Gatekeeper and The Destroyer. He is a very skilled and renowned Warrior Lord. While He presides over justice it is often leaning more towards the vengeful aspect of justice, then just reigning justice itself. Justice is also more complex than what humans understand of it. Given Lord Abaddon is angelic, He does carry the kind of righteousness of justice and the severity in this, that angelic beings often tend to have. Lord Abaddon is quite austere and can be very harsh. Energetically His energy is very vast and enveloping, watery yet aetheric, like all consuming fog above a black treacherous ocean. So, it can be quite overwhelming and disorientating for humans to connect with this level of darkness. His energy has a heaviness and a graveness to it. He can be very severe and is quite formal and stern.

Lord Abaddon is also associated with death- though a more sombre aspect of it. As well as destruction and war. Yet He is also a fierce protector of His people and those He claims as His own. He carries the Keys and Chains of Knowledge Bound. He is very capable and experienced with darker magic and occult mysteries. And He enjoys challenges. Lord Abaddon also has an interesting link with the Wormwood Star. I have yet to delve into the full reasons behind this though. But it is there and through this also has an association with wormwood the plant and its mysteries, poisons (though not as much as some others DLs are.) He is also linked subterfuge and plague death. Lord Abaddon is ancient though He doesn’t appear so. He is a Great Ruler and has much knowledge of the rise and fall of civilisations.

artist: Dominik Mayer on artstation

(This is channeled from Lord Abaddon directly) “Everything has its Time and To Everything an End. But to Enjoy the Fruits of Labours Hard Won and Existence in Motion. Destruction has its Valued Seat at the Table of Pleroma, Do Not Forget This, To Do So is to Find Value in the Pantomime of the Unjust.”

Another of Lord Abaddon’s domains is the realm of the darkened mind and soul. He is excellent at aiding shadow work and inner child work. Though He may be quite severe with this, given His energies and nature. Despite all of this and what is often said about Him, Lord Abaddon (like all Demonic Divine Dark Lords) is balanced in His own way and is also understanding, if not necessarily sympathetic towards humans who connect. Though He is not especially looking to connect or work with people though.  He (in the more inner realm aspects as well) expects those who connect to do the work and be serious about this. He is quite an advanced Dark Lord to work with and I would not suggest beginners try it.

Some of the inner realm planetary energies Lord Abaddon is associated with are; Saturn, certain aspects of Pluto, somewhat of Neptune and darker Mercury. He can also be more Solar in His Justice aspect.

Praise Be Lord Abaddon!

Prodigious Da’athic Angel!

Master of the Abyss!

Gatekeeper and Wayshower!

You who Hold the Keys and Chains of Knowledge Bound!

Magnificent One, Alight among us,

Lead your select to the True Seat of Wisdoms Throne!

Dark Lord of the Aetheric Abyss,

Guide and Guardian of the Abyssal Journey,

Accompany us as we Walk the Blackened Road of Desolation

Towards Alchemical Rebirth!

Praise Be unto you Beloved and Mighty Lord!

Just Lord of Destruction, Fierce Protector

Embrace Your Kin in Favour and Guard Us,

Through the Vicissitudes of this Existence,

Let us Find Respite in Your Solemn Embrace!

Illustrious Warrior Lord, Great Abaddon!

May we come to Accept the Power and Value of Destruction-

Necessary and Otherwise,

Grant to us that we Know it Well,

and Engage with Wise Judgement.

Praise be unto you, Majesty of Abyssal Darkness

Ave Lord Abaddon!

Ave Lord Abaddon!

Ave Lord Abaddon!

artist: Ramsés Meléndez on artstation

[elluendifad]

what do you think are good resources for someone who wants to get into Elf Religion?

there's quite a lot floating around out there, luckily! most of the effort comes in hunting it down and winnowing out what works best for you! there's also lots and lots of mixed or multi-source elf stuff out there, i just work primarily with tolkien sourced stuff. i can't comment much on other sources, so what i list here will be tolkien based or tolkien adjacent at the least! reading the fullness of the legendarium, not just the silm but also HoME and other texts, will also help you find what feels right.

so before we get to the long stuff, i really recommend you go through t-e/wal's website first and look at the statement of faith, valar page, and loa page. that's a pretty good summary of the most basic parts as far as belief goes. practice is something you can make unique to you! t-e/wal has a very modern-festival-paganism vibe to their rituals. i-v is doing modern western 'shamanism' (quotes bc that is a stolen name and i don't condone its use, but the alternative 'imaginal gnosis' is unwieldy and not commonly used).

if you already have your own favorite magical practices, you could find ways to adapt them to the loa and the valar! have fun with it! some of us do lots of magic, some of us mostly do worship. it can be as complicated or as simple as you want. this list comes from a collection i have been working on since 2022 and lists both orgs and individuals posting their own experiences.

T-e or wal : a shortening for Tie Eldalieva which changed its name to Way of Arda's Lore in 2024, which is a religious organization based in the usa for tolkien religionists. They (meaning a few of their loremasters with high overlap wth I-v) have worked on the loa and astronomy of the legendarium extensively. their resources are great and pretty universally used and tweaked by tolkien spiritualists of all kinds.

main website link https://elvenspirituality.com/

facebook , old name and older content https://www.facebook.com/elvenspirituality

facebook, new name and newer content https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61559024296013

youtube link https://www.youtube.com/@elvenspiritualpath

they currently have years of public virtual rituals and discussions on essays or white papers written by their lore masters. their membership overlap with i-v means i-v lore masters will sometimes appear in their videos.

I-v : a shortening for Ilsalunte Valion, a gnostic group closely related to T-e but with different motivations which has done a lot of the imaginal work and loremastery to make tolkien religion a rich possibility for many people. Their approach is less public, but deeper and more personal, than T-e. they focus a lot on gnosis and meditative exploration and use different ritual techniques than t-e/wal.

ilsalunte-valion main website http://westofwest.org/

the main feature is the forum, which you will need to register as a member to see most of.

Dave, a founding member and loremaster of both t-e/wal and i-v has a collection of more recent writing that is relevant to both organizations and people curious about them. found here https://hackmd.io/@EriolElwin/rJrwhaDaR

hewal : a shortening for High Elven Wisdom and Love, which is the youtube channel of Kmberiel Eventide. Kimber-el/Kimberel/Kimberiel is a starseed and mystic, and overlaps with tolkien religion enough that she joined and assisted T-e in getting legal religious recognition before parting and going her own way again.

while hewal has been inactive for several years, some of her videos are tolkien-specific and she made and posted the vala-specific informational videos for t-e/wal when she joined them. in those videos (still on t-e/wal's youtube and i think on hers as well) she goes through each mention of the vala in the legendarium texts book by book. this can be very helpful for someone that isn't absorbing the same summaries from the tolkien gateway website.

hewal youtube tolkien specific playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbW2r96baVJy1_ItxeeuFKrfde3HdgAH8

she has tolkien relevant videos not in that playlist so make sure to snoop around.

ES : a shortening for Elven Scholar, which is the youtube channel for Earendil Spindelilus, who was once of T-e but does his own work for loremastery and runs an online school. looks like he stopped posting youtube videos about a year ago, but his facebook group and school still have some activity.

youtube channel here https://www.youtube.com/@ElvenScholarMusings

his online school http://www.elvenscholar.org/

warning: there are no state or federal agencies that license herbalism in the united states. his claims that his courses will award you the title 'certified herbalist' are vanity titles only. all those interested in herbalism should thoroughly investigate the legal licensure status of herbalism, naturopathy, and nutrition and dietetics for their nation and state. (afair naturopathy and nutrition/dietetics are licensed in the usa and cannot be practiced without legal license.) if your nation and state has no licensure process for herbalism, look for the self-regulatory bodies developed by professionals of that field and learn the base standards of education assumed for that field by that body. in the united states, this would be the american herbalists' guild and the american botanical council.

this last one is a little controversial in that alyras was formerly a founder and treasurer of t-e, and due to usa incorporation laws, was considered the only remaining board member of t-e when they ousted her, which is the reason t-e had to change their name to wal legally. i don't understand the situation but the tea is spilled lmao. i do still use and enjoy her reference book with lots of modification and ignoring what i dont care for. she also uses ai generated images for her website, which really rubs me the wrong way. i think her urls being so visually similar to t-e/wal's is on purpose.

her work is very new age and also centered in music. i do enjoy the tambour drones a lot for meditation!

her org website https://yanaeldalieva.org/about.html

there should be a link for her handbook somewhere in there, which is a gift in exchange for donation. dm me if you need help finding it, as the website has been re-arranged since i last saw it.

alyras/yana eldalieva facebook https://www.facebook.com/elvenspiritualpath

alyras youtube https://www.youtube.com/@elvenspiritualpathmusic/videos

[creature-wizard]

I told my big sister about leaving a New Age group because I could no longer excuse its bigotry, and she said I should have stayed on to try to help "reform" it into something more progressive. Please elaborate on why that is a terrible, terrible idea.

Sure, no problem!

So let's pretend for the moment that New Age actually could be reformed, and that pseudoscience and chauvinism aren't baked into its very foundations. Even if it could be reformed, you might not have all the skills or emotional resilience that you'd need to get anywhere with it. It's okay to admit that you just aren't prepared or equipped to deal with a problem.

Also, you are just one person, and New Age is so full of people with their heads shoved completely up their asses that you'd likely burn yourself out very quickly without accomplishing anything. There's just no arguing with people who think Graham Hancock and their own personal gnosis about the Lemurian-Atlantean hyperwar are more valid than actual scientific research. It would be a poor use of your time.

Now let's examine the reasons New Age simply cannot be reformed.

First of all, it proposes that the world cannot and will not get better unless more and more people are converted to New Age. In fact, New Age even goes so far to say that the conversion is an inevitable part of Earth's evolution, sort of like a spiritual Manifest Destiny. The endgame is the eradication of all other religions, which is genocide. To admit this is wrong and that other people should generally be left to their current religions would be to admit that New Age is wrong. You wouldn't really be a New Ager anymore if you stopped believing in this.

Secondly, no amount of assuming that you understand other people's spiritual traditions better than they do can ever be progressive. The whole perennialist "we're all just seeking unity with the Divine Source, so our religions are actually the same at their core" sentiment is spiritual colonialism. It ignores and flattens the (often extreme) differences between religious traditions for the sake of assimilating everyone into a sort of bland post-Christian universalism. To admit that this isn't actually desirable would be to reject the assertion that New Age a superior religion, and thereby reject the idea that converting people to it is a necessary step in making social and economic progress. Again, you're not really a New Ager anymore once you do this.

Many New Agers feel quite certain that New Age must be an overall positive thing because it speaks to their compassionate and idealistic sides. However, you can be compassionate and idealistic in many religions, including ones that don't push eugenics and colonialism. Whatever genuinely positive things are enshrined in New Age, they also exist elsewhere, and you're probably going to have a much more fulfilling experience if you seek out these other communities. There are so many alternatives with so much to offer, and I hope your sister can come to recognize that.

[trans-axolotl]

(Apologies this is long and rambley)

So ive been thinking on a peer-made trait-based 'diagnostic model' (not for disorders but neurodiverse traits), rather than the way the DSM and ICD do it and what that would look like and if it would be a good idea to propose as an alternative that focuses the patients unique experiences over theorized model boxes with misleading names.

Ive been growing increasingly discontent with how the ICD and DSM both categorize disorders, and the completed alternate models ive seen that already exist are not much better honestly, and worse for my specific brainfuckery. The alternate models that only focus on one section are just that- focused on one specific experience. Monotropisim as an alternate autism model can never be fully realized in the bubble it exists as a theory in. Plurality has like 50 different theory models and half of them aggressively ignore common reported experiences because they don't work with their unverified personal gnosis theory of everything, and the other half are likewise mostly incomplete. Trauma/cause-based models ignore genetic/from birth issues as a known cause of mental illness/developmental disorder and also consider everything trauma to the point of diluting the term.

I figured the best option would be to group traits by perceived experiences or related phenomena, with overlap, and the best way to do that accurately would be to make the 'diagnostic codes' combinable infinitely. (ex- a category that is 'unusual sensory experiences' with synthesia, hypo and hyper sensitivity to stimuli, needing to regulate with the sensory system (stimming) to high degrees, hallucinations of any kind, voice hearing(would also go under the plural category when consistent and personlike in presentation), visual snow, etc and each trait is a unique string of characters you can stack under the category string to create a larger string that describes your experiences quickly and concisely).

(The groupings are still all up in the air and id want to get a lot of perspective before cementing it, but I do want to put synthesia and hallucinations and visual snow all together because they are adding a Weird experience and its sensory based stuff others cannot perceive)

And then I realized that this is just the Geek Code but for neurodiversity,,

Im STILL not sure if that makes it a bad idea or not honestly.

On one hand the way the DSM and ICD are set up is NOT actually that great, and being able to shorthand a list that describes things better and doesnt pathologize people as having 'asshole liar personality disorder' or whatever would be fantastic, on the other it is also clunky, people are gonna be pissed about how I am categorizing things contrary to how the DSM and ICD group things (autism and schizophrenia and plurality are all holding hands and kissing with tongue), and it may more strongly encourage people to share very private information online via sharing their string code of every last neuroweirdness they have (which I do NOT want people doing for safety reasons).

So I just went 'hm, whos a cool antipsych person who may have more insight than I do about trying to make a peer-made description system for those who dont want to use the DSM or ICD to describe their experiences', and I thought of you, so thoughts? Is it feasible? Is it a good idea to try? I have like 500 million projects and I REALLY shouldnt add a new one of this magnitude, but I feel like its an important idea to at least float around first.

Hey anon! My answer got pretty long, so I'm going to put it under the read more.

I actually know a few people doing something like this--the founding director of Neuromancers started a project like this (not much has been happening with it lately, bc everyone is so busy with other organizing commitments and life, but if we ever get back to it i'm really excited about it. you could join the discord for Neuromancers and ask about the project if you want to join). I'm a known DSM hater and think that both the DSM and ICD and most biomedical models of mental illness as well as the "evidence based" processes of diagnosis are so fundamentally flawed, oppressive, and are in no way culturally relevant to the vast majority of people. a lot of us are still going to use that terminology as a shorthand because it's the most accessible and understandable in our current society, but that doesn't necessarily mean we all like it or agree with the way it's formulated in the DSM.

Honestly, I'm always a big fan of mad/mentally ill/neurodivergent people creating more ways of understanding ourselves and creating more resources for us to use. I think that there's never going to be one right model that works for every experience or than can encompass everyone. And I think that there's so much value in really deconstructing and dismantling the DSM--understanding exactly how disorders are currently categorized, the evidence behind it, the lack of evidence behind it, what clinicians and researchers are saying about these diagnoses, how we actually experience these diagnoses in practice, how diagnoses change through history, things like that. It can be super crucial to build our own understandings of just how these diagnoses were shaped in the first place so that we can understand what it would mean to dismantle and build alternative models that feel more affirming for us. I think your idea of trying to group more by traits rather than strict disorder criteria is something that might resonate with a lot of people!

that being said, i think that it is such a large and difficult project and also something that is almost impossible to make universal--there are so many factors going into everyone's experience with madness/mental illness/neurodivergence, and different labels are going to resonate with different people for different reasons. it's hard to predict what language or models will catch on with different people, and not all types of language or models are accessible to everyone. i guess for me i just think it can be helpful to go into projects like this without the expectations that this will necessarily be able to replace the DSM for everyone, and instead thinking more about how this can be a valuable tool for providing more options and ways of thinking about madness/mental illness/neurodivergence! even if it doesn't work for everyone or is only applicable to certain types of traits and variations, i think that this type of creation of knowledge is so, so valuable. i hope that makes sense!

some other related concepts that your ask reminded me of was @bioethicists principles of liberatory antipsychiatry. Charlie identifies the right to your own explanatory model as a key principle of liberatory antipsychiatry, and that liberatory antipsychiatry should affirm and build upon those individual models, and respect that as a way of healing. I think that's a really important insight, and to me makes a lot of sense. We all have the right to draw from our own experiences + minds, as well as use existing knowledge, science, and disability community experience in order to create alterative labels, models, and frameworks for our madness/mental illness/neurodivergence. I honestly feel like I've created my own hyperspecific model of madness for my own bodymind, and that framework has been super helpful for figuring out how to live with my madness. Idk how helpful it would be for anyone who isn't me, but having my own particular explanatory model was crucial for helping me heal.

It also reminds me of the way this really amazing peer support network for people living with schizophrenia in Japan called Bethel House, who developed a framework for radical peer support and healing. This article talks about the concept of tōjisha-kenkyū, which in English would get translated as something like "self directed diagnosis" or maybe "political education," and it seems kind of similiar to English concepts about self diagnosis.

"Self-reflection is at the heart of this practice. Tōjisha-kenkyū incorporates various forms of reflection developed in clinical methods, such as social skills training and cognitive behavioural therapy, but the reflections of a tōjisha don’t begin and end at the individual. Instead, self-reflection is always shared, becoming a form of knowledge that can be communally reflected upon and improved. At Bethel House, members found it liberating that they could define themselves as ‘producers’ of a new form of knowledge, just like the doctors and scientists who diagnosed and studied them in hospital wards. The experiential knowledge of Bethel members now forms the basis of an open and shared public domain of collective knowledge about mental health, one distributed through books, newspaper articles, documentaries and social media." (Japan's radical alternative to psychiatric diagnosis, Satsuki Ayayais and Junko Kitanaka, ).

Anyway, thought I'd share those things to sort of point you in the direction of other people thinking about madness outside of the DSM. if you end up doing any more thought or creation for this idea, def feel free to share with me! I love seeing all the ways people take apart the DSM and build our own knowledge, and would love to keep updated.

best of luck, anon!

[razorblade180]

Hot take: arlecchino should have a more prominent presence in the fontaine aq because she’s literally just standing there most of the time. Also, archon or not, furina is a celebrity and arle’s attack on her is a serious crime

Say it one more time for the people in the back.

I can’t describe how utterly disappointed I am of Arlecchino as a character. Years of lore about the orphanage and multiple Fatui children describing the pain, and even running away just to die later really built up a reputation I don’t think they delivered on. Especially with the voice lines about her.

Then when she finally shows up, she talks mad shit, proclaims fate won’t easily have its way, then isn’t even in the room when the grand reveals and plans happen. Her people helped saved one town and she provided one piece of info. She didn’t have to work to get the gnosis because Skirk told Neuvillette to get rid of it.

Form me she was just incredibly underwhelming and the game chooses to pivot to the “Oh but she’s not so bad” angle after the year and a half of info.

Not to mention they really try to downplay how most of the orphans don’t really know what they’re getting into until later on when it’s too late to leave, yet despite that fact, they need to earn the right to leave which involves taking a substance that they might not be able to withstand. I can’t speak for everyone but where I’m from, that’s essentially gang rules. And I think what actually upsets me the most about this is she really has no allegiance to the Fatui so aside from funds, I really don’t see what was stopping her ditching the entire group and creating her own orphanage. It can still be a fucked up one in the sense that its goal is to ruin the Fatui, but why exactly did it have to be apart of it? Who even arrested her and why did she stick around long enough to get arrested?

All these gripes that I have and yet the game tries to sell how absolutely awesome she is and that she isn’t that bad of a person. It’s at this point I wish Hoyo just trusted the idea that they can make a horrible and unhinged person that will still get pulls. I wanted a cool evil woman. The more they tried making her caring, the less interesting she got for me.

Childe and Scara are actual menaces to society who worked more than her to get a gnosis. There also wasn’t a sharp contrast between lore hints and their in game presence. Hoyo said Scara was a sad and angry crazed fella and that’s what we dealt with. I’m not a fan of Childe but they played it straight with being the battle hungry family man. I like subverting expectations but I don’t really think that’s the strongest move to do when you’re trying to sell a character. Put the right label on the box if you’re going to allude to said box. Furina had character twists but is still very much in line with what we knew and experienced

[passenger-girl]

I was so shocked to see just how prevalent of a thing it was even in occult spaces for people to just defer to one guy's word as if it was absolute law of the occult world (it's called UPG [Unverified Personal Gnosis] if there's nothing else backing the info besides one guy's word i.e. "that's just like your opinion man"/[citation needed]). This is how a cult can form. Cults, magical orders, covens, whatever word you want to use to define these groups by; they are not inherently bad, but once there is a leader in charge you need to be careful and be safe. It is very easy to get roped into rituals and rites containing actions that you would otherwise be opposed to doing if someone of a higher rank is being manipulative. I prefer to be solitary with any practice I'm doing whether it be full-on religious or casual spiritual practices for this reason. I also take everything I see online (and in the books I acquire as well) about occult topics with a certain degree of a grain of salt and form my own opinions, but understand that this, too, is just my UPG. Belief is a powerful tool, but make sure your belief is not being used against you by others manipulating you. That is all.