#people get involved in such cool stuff!!!!!!

[nekropsii]

Hello, I really like your analysis, especially of the dancestors but there's one part I don't quite get and would apreciate if you could ellaborate on

It's the part about how it's fucked up for them to be romantically involved with the beta trolls, because in the text, iirc, it does'nt seem like it is. They are treated like normal dumb teenagers, not that different than when they died as such, and I know it is canonically possible to go through character development after death, after all, dead Vriska did, but I can't remember the comic indicating that the dancestors did?

They still feel like teenagers and the comic doesn't seem to ever hint at abuse by virtue of their maturity, or include it as a theme or something. To me, that they spent whatever senseless amount of time dead thinking about stuff and never matured out of being teenagers just seemed like the sort of kind of dumb thing you're supposed to suspend your disbelief on for the juicy tumblr parody jokes and ignore, like the comic (imo) seemed to be doing.

Again, i'd love to read what you have to say on this and I hope to not be misremsmbering anything.

Thank you! I really appreciate it. I'm happy to explain.

1.) They are called the Alpha Trolls. Not the Dancestors. "Dancestor" refers to a relation that every single character group has with one another - it means "Person who is simultaneously your Descendant and Ancestor by way of a Scratch", and was actually originally coined by Porrim to describe the Beta Trolls.

The Beta Trolls are the Alpha Trolls's Dancestors. The Alpha Trolls are the Beta Trolls's Dancestors, also. The Beta Kids are the Alpha Kids's Dancestors as well, and vice versa. "Alpha Troll" is more accurate and more specific. They're even called this directly within the text, by themselves even. Best to just use that label instead.

2.) The Beta Trolls are 13 years old. The Alpha Trolls are 19 years old. That is a middle schooler and a college student. That is the power imbalance. That is what is wrong here. This also meets the DSM-5's definition of Pedophilia. Those children are 6 full years younger than they are, they should be completely off the table. This is not an excusable cultural difference, or something you are supposed to ignore, it is framed within the comic as being fucking gross. Meenah's relationship with (Vriska), who was 13, should have already clued you into that. Hell, the age disparity is called directly into focus as being fucked up by Meenah herself. More than once, actually.

NOTE: Yes, I know that 7.5 Sweeps translates to 16 Years - though, more accurately, she'd be 15 Years, since she hasn't even reached 7.5 Sweeps yet. (Vriska) and the Vriska in this picture are two different characters. (Vriska) is the Pre-Retcon Vriska, who died at 6 Sweeps, or 13 Years. Likewise, most of the characters targeted by the 3 offending Alpha Trolls were also people who died at 13 Years - Aradiabot (Rufioh), Tavros (Cronus), and Eridan (Cronus again - cool Incest bro!).

Child Predation is a running theme in Homestuck. The foul conduct of the Alpha Trolls exhibit towards some of the Beta Trolls - Cronus, Meenah, and Rufioh in particular having preyed on 3, 2, and 1 minor(s) respectively and specifically - is simply another follow up on that. We see it with Bro Strider, who abused and neglected Dave so badly that Dave was constantly exposed to and involved in Fetish Pornography, we see it in Doc Scratch, who is directly called out as having a thing for young girls several times and was literally keeping a young girl as a slave, we see it in the Alpha Trolls. It is everywhere. It isn't meant to be looked away from for the sake of memes. The fact that those college age adults are creeping on literal middle schoolers is thematically relevant, and very in your face.

So, like, yes, the Alpha Trolls are still teenagers, but these are the oldest possible teenagers targeting the youngest possible teenagers. Again, this is College Students creeping on Middle Schoolers, and the text wants you to think this is disgusting. Because it is.

[centrally-unplanned]

Saw this really cool post of a 1982 "SF" (Science fiction but in Japan that included things like anime, manga, tokusatsu, etc at the time) magazine that did a survey of active fan groups/circles at the time - ~woo, precious data! Lets see what we got:

Love to see a good gender breakdown - as is often the case in these things, while it is of course majority men the number of women participating is very strong. You do notice the age imbalance there - many women in their teens and college-aged, but it drops off quickly. I suspect that this is primarily because this survey is right in the middle of the first wave of the "pop SF boom", where more approachable works like Gundam and new manga subgenres were rapidly growing the community. So the older cadre was more heavily men, while the new group is more balanced. However, this is the early 1980's - it might just be that when a woman graduates college she was expected to marry and "settle down" still, inhibiting participation in these kinds of groups. I think it is primarily the former, Japan had pretty rapidly changed in the 1970's and female creative types were commonplace by then, but I won't pretend the latter players no role.

The writing on this page just contextualizes the piece, not much to report, though it does note that "3 people replied 'other' for gender...as a joke!" Sure, jan!

Anyway, on to page 2, what is our poll question of the day...

ロリコンについてどう思いますか? What do you think about lolicon?

....*siiiiiighs* guys I didn't, I didn't look at the second page before typing this up! I just wanted to report the gender data! This just happens to me, I swear -_-

But I can't back out now I guess:

It actually splits the question by gender - men are asked "are you a lolicon" while women are asked "what do you think of guys who are lolicon" - sexists, way to erase the female lolicon. Not actually joking there, it is a quite a thing due to its overlap with rape and dubcon fetishes - but I won't pretend I have expertise on the prevalence of that in 1982 Japan's SF community, even if it you see it today. Anyway, most men are not lolicons (the tallest line), though others fall on a spectrum from interested to "graduated", certainly a choice of words one could make.

Funnily a good dozen say they are called that by others, but not themselves - I believe that is related to the vague line between loli & shoujo aesthetics at the time. Which is important to emphasize, as I always do on this topic - sometimes the word lolicon just means "youthful" or "cute", sometimes it means like high schoolers, and sometimes it means real-deal underage stuff, and you won't know without context.

Meanwhile two women label lolicon men as "cute!", good for those two living their truth, while others are broadly tolerant but have Opinions. Which is fun, because the rest of the page is people sharing said opinions, sorted into "good" or "bad"! Some choice ones:

★ It's a symptom of modern civilization’s sick parts, but also an inevitable phenomenon. It’s better than having a rabbit or cat complex. Don’t lay hands on young girls. Lolicon must remain platonic. (♂/19/)

You see this theme a bit, "symptom of modernity", the new sexual fetishes are a product of a changing world. Certainly up for debate, but also very "in vogue" for the 80's & 90's to worry about that sort of declinist narrative. Then again, guy is a catgirl and bunnygirl hater, not sure we should listen to their shit taste.

On the flip side you get the "natural way of things" types, of which this is my favourite:

★ There’s nothing abnormal about having a dream involving an uncontrollable urge towards pre-teens. Even Romeo and Juliet would have made Romeo a lolicon given Juliet’s age (14), but people don’t think of it that way. Only at that age can girls love and respect men without ulterior motives. (♂/19/)

That last line, you are telling me so much about you with that one!! You can see how this is discourse, right? Like if one side says you are a "symptom of modernity" you ofc respond with "this is how all guys are" and with callbacks to traditional culture.

The "bad" side has a lot of ruthless condemnation, with more than one call for the lolicons to simply die or labelling them worthless scum. The magazine's writers do try to keep the tone breezy but I do think this topic being actually contentious in the community pokes through here. Though this serious one really did undercut herself a bit at the end:

★ I can understand why one person of the same gender might feel admiration or affection for a child or young girl, but for a man to only be able to love much younger women? That’s a mental illness! If they aren’t willing to fix themselves, they might as well die. They’re enemies of women. It's not going to turn out like Nabokov's Lolita. (♀/20s/)

I mean they did also kill jesus Humbert Humbert in Lolita. that was a pretty significant thing that happened. like i understand where you’re coming from here but they very much did kill the Lolita guy.

There is an editorial at the end, and it echoes something one of the comments also states; that the lolicon boom was seen as coming from "hard" SF fans, the people who did the really nerdy stuff. There is a word they use actually which is neat: 根暗/Nekura, meaning someone with a "gloomy root". It began seeing use as a slang for hyper-serious, boorish people in the late 1970's and became a fad to use in precisely 1982 - here is a live record of that! They associate "hard SF" fans with these sort of gloomy types who can't take a joke or appreciate hanging out with the buds at a bar, that kind of thing. From there, and here I am reading between the lines, these fans like a sort of "idealistically sterile" world, and lolicon as a preference (in comparison to Real Adult Women) flows naturally.

I mention this because astute readers might be going "oh, like otaku?" and that word was only just buzzing around at this time - it is typically dated to 1983. The editorial writers note that these nekura-types are nowadays proud of that fact, wearing it like an identity:

A: I’m not really sure why, I don’t fully understand the inner workings of the SF world, but it’s like, out there, hardcore SF fans are considered gloomy. Maybe that’s why there’s this connection to lolicon? B: But surprisingly, everyone’s actually pretty cheerful. In today’s world, the 'dark and gloomy tribe' is trendy. It’s like they’re enjoying calling themselves gloomy, almost as a fashion statement.

So yeah, I can totally see proto-otaku discourse going on at the edges here.

There is a third page but it continues in a similar vein. A bunch of mentions of Hideo Azuma, who I am growing increasingly convinced was more of a lodestone for the lolicon boom than is currently appreciated - he is the ur-reference everyone makes. More discussion of girls in sailor uniforms as a gateway drug, yeah yeah, "is fine as long as its fiction", of course of course, one of the magazine editors remarking he wants "a wife for practical uses but a daughter as a pet" yeah okay we can call it we're done here, no more survey data anyway.

Not the topic I expected to find, but still this is really valuable "primary source data" - you can't trust the literary class fully on these things, having first hand quotes from community members on otaku culture in the era is always valuable.

Sorry if you got tricked into reading this - in my defense I did too!

[crushedsweets]

what would BENs thoughts about the others be and what would their thoughts on him be? (I have a theory that Tim is just in the corner like "why am I surrounded by traumatized teenagers and children what the Fuck")

AHH OK I HAVENT DONE A POST LIKE THIS IN FOREVERRRRRR ill try to be quick cuz i have dinner planned soon. everything is specific to my au

toby: sibling-like relationship! it started with toby being freaked out by ben (toby has a serious issue with ghosts . LMAO) and ben making fun of him for it until toby eventually warms up to ben. in which case toby starts picking on him now. which is all fun and games till ben gets mad. overall, they have a pretty positive relationship and ben has helped toby get out of trouble countless times - but it gets kinda awkward/tense after toby and jeff start beefing

brian: brian was one of the first people to get involved with ben! he was the one who encouraged the sorta "he could be really useful to us" idea to slendy/the other proxies. ben thinks hes a good guy and is pretty happy to help brian out, but theyre not really friends - moreso friendly coworkers.. ?

tim: he's really uninvolved in the paranormal aspects of his job...so he strays far away from ben. HOWEVER, they have still spoken and ben thinks tim is just kinda boring and has a stick up his ass. tim thinks ben is a freak

kate: ben thinks shes boring and a weirdo. kate thinks hes annoying and obnoxious. they rarely interact because the jobs kate takes up (patrolling the forest, bringing slendy 'meals', pinning up pages) doesnt really need bens help (cctv footage, etc). but i like to think he eventually helps her get some footing in the real world... maybe by wiping away her missing persons report so she can use her SSN and stuff for jobs.

clocky: she just feels really sad for him. she thinks of him like an annoying little brother(esp cuz she feels that way towards jeff) and she'd be one of the first(if any) to know what happened to ben, how he died, why he looks like that. and it would break her heart, cuz he's just a kid and needed someone to protect him and while they dont really share many experiences, she just feels so strongly and protective over any kid whos been hurt. ben thinks shes a total badass and loves when she hangs out with him, BUT he thinks she also has a stick up her ass at time cuz she'll get snappy if hes being too annoying

EJ: realizing ben is just everyones brother damn... he reminds EJ of one of EJ's siblings, from before the sacrifice. it kills him i think. ben and jeff often go to EJ's place and just lounge around and bother him, but EJ is secretly grateful to have some people making noise and hanging out at his house - reminds him of home. ben thinks hes cool and is always very fond of other paranormal folk, thinks theyre the only ones who can REALLY understand him. something about losing your humanity, or whatever.

sally: not a lot of things can get ben very emotional or sentimental, but sally does. he understands her pretty well, both having been betrayed and killed by someone they trusted - and while they really dont have much in common and therefore dont spend much time together, i like to think they have a really deep connection that sorta transcends anything mortal. its pretty somber, but its nice to not feel so alone

jeff: thats his BFF4L. theyve gone months being totally glued to the hips. constantly laughing and making fun of eachother and doing stupid shit and just being like. AGAIN. BROTHERLY LOL. theyre just here for a good time not a long time and bens saved jeffs ass many a time.

jane: she barely knows of him. he entirely avoids and tries to hide his entire existence from her (cuz of jeff), but since jane takes care of sally, she's vaguely aware.

liu: same as jane, ben avoids liu and has no reason to interact with him

ann: she thinks hes an insufferable brat. LOL. she doesnt like kids and she especially doesnt like him. i dont think they really hang out or have reasons to interact...

dina: same thing with ann LOL

lulu: i think theyve bumped into eachtoher a few times and lulu would give ben the creeps!! hes probably mostly just like Hm. weird. and then leaves her to wander. she doesnt have enough memories of him to have an opinion

lazari: loves him, loves playing games with him. ben and jeff will get her to say swear words and it makes EJ hella mad

nina: she thinks hes so adorable (like 'DAWW LET ME PINCH YOUR CHEEKS') little brother adorable. he has a huge stupid crush on her, but she doesnt know about it. and obvi wouldnt reciprocate it, but its kinda like dipper having a crush on wendy in gravity falls ? eventually hes like JEFFFFF YOURE FUMBLINGGG YOURE FUMBLINGGGGGG when jeff treats nina like shit, but he does literally nothing to actually help ninas situation. i think he feels bad for her, but he also is like "well you did this to yourself..so like..." . so. its complicated basically.

[why-is-it-always-autumn]

*This applies to any setting that is mostly reality, but a certain subset of people secretly have magic/superpowers/aren't human, and try to hide that from the general public. Think anything from Buffy the Vampire Slayer to Spider-Man to Wizards of Waverly Place

[moregraceful]

It feels like getting pulled underwater—the sharp sideways tug, the slight drag of resistance, then falling, falling, till the waves close over his head. But Logan can breathe when he rights himself again, even if the light has a watery filter to it and the voices have a distant echo. // Sometimes Logan gets a glimpse of guys who've been long gone from the teal, clustered at the far end of the bench or sitting in the box across the ice. He heard Jason's voice in the hallway loud and clear, that infectious laugh. And he could have sworn he saw Raffi fucking Torres getting out of a car in the players' lot. Something tells him not to look up the rosters.

Commissioned @impmakesart to make a painting based on the Sharks' Cali Fin hype reel + the flip side by frausorge. Imp was amazing to work with and I could not be more emotional about this piece and so, so pleased with how it turned out!! 🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️ Commission him here. Thank you Imp!

[askchilchuck]

Do you support Kamala?

No idea who that is.

[linkneol091]

JOSUKE MY GUY

[icewindandboringhorror]

sometimes looking at like Self Help Strategies lists for the symptoms I'm having is always just like:

thing that I already do

thing I have tried 10 times

thing I already do

thing that I don't have the money to do

thing I already do

thing I've been doing since I was 10yrs old to no avail

thing that is impossible given my situation

thing that doesn't apply to me

thing that I already do

thing I have already tried

hrmm, oh wait, maybe finally- OH, yeah.. okay. thing that I already do but it was just phrased slightly differently

thing I have already done

[railway-lands]

just got to the part in trk where ronan's showing declan the little light orb maker thing that explodes in his face and how it says "he realised how much declan had missed by growing up neither dreamer nor dreamt. this had never been his home. the lynches had never tried to make it declan's home," AND I IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT OF THESE LINES!!! LIKE OKAY HE LOVES HIS BROTHERS BUT DOES HE EVER RESENT BEING A LYNCH WHERE HE WILL ALWAYS BE LAST, BECAUSE HES NOT A RONAN, THE FAVOURITE AND DREAMER OR MATTHEW, SPECIAL AND GOLDEN???

(from burning vs drowning - mccafferty)

[doedipus]

a large amount of time I've been spending on -untitled undefined scope original fiction project- since the last time I posted about it has been trying to develop the protagonist concept I came up with last summer or whatever into like, a character that would feel real and era appropriate.

it's fun research to do. naturally a lot of the details I assigned to her are things that I already think are cool, so it's been a lot of fun trying to trace her traits back through the relatively recent past, getting reminded of how much things have changed, or where the gaps in my intuition are, and then doing a flurry of reading to get a sense for exactly how someone like her and the people around her could have happened and what her life was probably like leading up to her present day. hopefully this results in some good good verisimilitude.

[mamayan]

I got a text today saying “I forgive you” on fb, from someone in high school who got their face smashed in a locker till I was yoinked off by a couple teachers.

What do I tell them? Cuz they started the little squabble in the first place with their shoving and peacocking from what I remember, and they also ran their yapper for an entire week prior saying they were going to “beat me up” lol.

So shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you initiate the bullying and the fight, and then proceed to get your ass handed to you, doesn’t that make you the biggest loser? I think so tbh, but maybe I’m not as mature as I like to think I am. Idk, when I saw the message, it made me wish I would’ve permanently disfigured their face so they had to actually forgive me for something lol.

The waifu says be the bigger person and say “thank you,” but I keep typing out nastiness lmao.

Should I just not reply? If I say thank you it feels like I’m affirming I did something wrong, but I felt zero guilt then and even now…( ・∇・)

[irregularbillcipher]

watched the musical demon show (don't wanna name it so this post isn't in the tags) at the behest of an IRL friend and i can already tell this is going to be a piece of media where i absolutely cannot stop thinking about it, not because i really love the show as-is, but because it has so many individual components i really like and find incredibly fun or compelling, and i'm so frustrated that it doesn't come together for me

i think the main thing i can say about it as a show, setting aside some of the insensitive choices that were made that i really don't feel qualified to tackle or talk about, is that the entire thing sort of gives off this vibe of someone really excited to show you every single oc they made in high school and college and i very genuinely mean that in both the best and worst ways possible

there are some good hooks for season two though so i will absolutely give them that

[writhe]

applied for another job yesterday

[delightfullyatomicfest]

Not the Lost Bass Project taking undeserved credit for finding the bass

[ghostlyheart]

I woke up about halfway through the night last night which usually means that I have a super vivid dream. This time it was about finding a baby giraffe in an underground basement complex and then being ghosted by animal control when I tried to report it so I had to protect it in my house