#people be sounding like kier himself tbh

[olenvasynyt]

I saw this post about how the other side treats Jurian like some sort of villain when Rhysand has committed far more atrocious acts. They treat the latter like a hero when the Jurian does less damning actions than Rhys. Your thoughts?

You seem like someone who has a good head on your shoulders and I would very much like to know your thoughts on this. thanks!

It’s funny when people hate on certain characters who are exactly like Rhys. Eris…Jurian…Tamlin tbh…The only difference is we are seeing them all from Feyre’s POV, and Feyre is very biased towards her mate vs those who are her “enemies”.

I think a lot of people who villainize Jurian bring up his comments about Elain in ACOWAR, and I think this is a perfect way to show the comparisons between what he did and what Rhys has done.

Jurian implied a few times in ACOMAF and ACOWAR that Elain is getting SAed by Illyrian males, and he says it to Lucien and Feyre’s face. Quotes:

Chapter 67 of ACOMAF:

Chapter 2 of ACOWAR:

But are these any more cruel than Rhys making comments about Lucien’s mother and Jesminda? Or going into Feyre’s head and voicing her sexual thoughts?

I would argue that they are more cruel, because Jurian is implying that others will be violent to Feyre and Lucien’s loved ones, while Rhysand is being violent himself. I should have to talk about UTM too.

And tbh I’m not damning Rhys for this, or Jurian. That would defeat the purpose tbh because both of them were playing as the bad guy. They were wearing a mask. And tbh ACOTAR Rhys with his evil mask was my favorite Rhys to read because it was just so interesting and I love a morally grey guy!

But why are we villainizing Jurian for doing the exact same thing Rhys did, and worshipping Rhys and excusing his actions at the same time?

“Oh but Rhysand was going into Feyre’s mind to taunt Tamlin! He twisted her broken arm because he’s playing as the bad guy!” And then when the topic turns to Jurian it’s “he’s a villain for saying the Illyrians would harm Elain!! It’s not true!”

Idk man…are we sure it’s not true? We have seen how SJM has written Illyrians, how they treat their own females. And maybe not Illyrians sure, but there’s also Kier’s Dark Bringers, which are implied to be even more cruel and violent. Jurian was a human general during the War and he fought with them both. And regardless of whether or not he believes he’s right or if he’s just goading Feyre and Lucien, he’s saying this because “he’s playing as the bad guy”. He’s playing as the mad man who says whatever and is goading people. But guess what? As we find out in a dramatic reveal, he is fighting against Hybern: he goes to the human lands and gets to Grayson and his father. He has sided with them this entire time, because of course he did.

I was trying to think of what else people damn Jurian for and I had to look up his whole history with Amarantha because I could not remember for the life of me

Oh? Jurian pretended to be an enemy’s lover to get information that was necessary to protect his people, his loved ones, and to get revenge against the enemy who had tortured him and did him and his people wrong? But he really hated the enemy the entire time and ended up destroying them? That sounds very familiar…

…wait! Didn’t Rhys do that with Amarantha UTM? And technically Feyre with Tamlin in ACOWAR?

We damn the morally grey who are not seen in a good light through Feyre’s eyes, but we excuse the morally grey that Feyre loves. The character bias has a lot of people in a chokehold!

Thank you for your ask! This was a very interesting topic to discuss.

[tadpolesonalgae]

Okie i'll copy you for a bit a do the quote for each comment thing so i dont get lost hehe

I don’t know? I think to us as readers of the series I kind of agree, but then he cooperated with the alliance, and also I’m on the side that if anyone should be able to see through his mask it should be the IC since hello Rhysand? UTM? CoN???? The idea of a mask/persona???

honestly this is one of the million problems with acotar because yeah when i say the ic has no way of knowing that eris isn't all bad i mean sjm keeps writing the story like that but you're right it doesn't make any sense. i mean even apart from eris doing literally what rhys has been doing since forever, how am i suppose to believe that mor knows all truth or whatever her powers even are and that rhys is a mind reader, and azriel and amren are supposed to be able to read people so well, that azriel's shadows see things that others don't but they still think eris is as bad as beron. that and both eris and mor kinda have made it seem like there's something else there (i genuinely think sjm planned on making mor and eris mates or something but then people started calling her out on having no diversity and she made mor gay out of nowhere). im also pretty sure its common knowledge in the ic that yes eris dumped her over the border without any other help which sucks but he didn't actually hurt her (that was kier) and one look at the autumn court would be enough to tell them that mor would have been hurt even worse if beron had seen her so how did they not put 2 and 2 together. i guess he still hurt her enough and as her friends they probably wont ever forgive him but it doesnt make sense logically for them to still think eris is the same as beron

This might sound hypercritical or conflictive but I’m not writing/don’t want to write Mor to be a bitch? I like Mor and while it might add to the angst and drama to have her be cruel to reader I just wouldn’t be able to commit to it �� In my mind it was Mor acting on the hurt reader has caused her and while it was unnecessary, emotions should be let out?

im sorry to say but mor was in fact a bitch but i get what you're saying like she's justified in her anger (in a way) but yeah trying to make someone who just attempted suicide feel bad about themselves is beyond bitchy. but im saying this as someone who doesn't really like mor most times (to me there's no depth to her character tbh like she was just there as the obligatory female friend for feyre, if you compare how developed cass and az are to mor... yeah she just falls flat idk if its bc cass and az will become the main characters in their books and mor might not get one or if its just not so great writing coming from miss maas once more)

Azriel calling Mor out??? After some of the things he’s said to reader????

i feel like this could be a good turning point though. like imagine azriel heard it and calls her out and has to admit not only to himself but out loud about all the shitty uncalles for comments he's thrown reader's way but even while admitting to it, deciding that he wants to be better to her and calling out mor on her bullshit is one way of doing it. also calling out mor is especially significant because of the whole he was in love with her for 500 years (i refuse to go with sjm's shitty ass "he loved her for 500 years and one day just stopped" bullshit - if she was a decent writer who cared a little more about character growth and plot instead of superficial romance tropes and smut she would write a whole book for azriel with no love interest but of him finding his own way and letting go of his love for mor that lasted for 500 fucking years before ever thinking of making him fall for someone else anyway i digress)

That would be so ooc of reader but I think it would be funny (in theory) for reader to suddenly do a 180° and act with them how she does around Eris and snap something smart and sassy back 😭🤭

i hope the ic gets to see her being herself with eris though and realize they really dont know shit about her

But then also idk how much the ‘thinking loudly’ was amplified by Rhys and Feyre’s bond, so whether it would even apply to reader in that way?

honestly sjm refuses to explain anyone's powers or even how magic works atp so who knows

also i saw another ask of you going in on cc and i would like to join a little. i have to start by saying i havent read the books bc i didn't do anything wrong but from the bits I've seen her writing really has been going downhill and it shows the most in the cc books. i never thought she was an amazing writer tbh like acotar reads to me like a teenager book almost but with smut so it's supposed to be ya and if it wasnt for fanfic i wouldn't be here or even remember the books. i read the first one and already had to skim through some of it but then the 2nd one was a bit more promising, unfortunately the 3rd book was going downhill by the chapter, i dont even like to talk about acosf because how is that supposed to be a book about healing when everyone that's supposed to love nesta treats her like shit and most of it is just smut that does nothing at all for the plot. so im not surprised that not only has cc been having a lot of these critics but also that sjm doubled down on the smut in that book. i also heard some of the characters are kind of copy paste from acotar but again i havent read the books. i honestly dont even know if i'll read any other acotar book because they keep getting worse and whether elain ends up with az or lucien or az with gwyn or elain, i dont think sjm will be able to pull a good book out of it when there's this big mess between all of the characters i mentioned plus her insistence on making the ic act like assholes to each other, creating a found family to make it shitty is just dumb in my opinion, but i know for a fact im not gonna read any of the other sjm series (even though tog is supposed to be the best one) and even if i did i wouldnt touch the modern fantasy if it was the last book on earth tbh. technology ends up taking a lot of the magic out of fantasy and obviously im reading fantasy because i like magical aspects. one of the reasons the later books fell off for me too tbh, she started modernizing things too much (like leggings and cans of soup?? when there are no factories or anything?) like the spring court had so many fun magic things and then velaris was a city with clubs, the moonstone palace and the hewn city felt more magical at times than the court of dreams.

i also agree that one of the biggest problems with the later books is the amount of smut. i like smut as much as the next person and dont mind reading pwp but in fanfictions not in books i pay for and that are written by professional authors. sjm tries less and less to write good characters and to keep up a plot because she knows her fantasy books were one of the first of the "spicy fantasy romance" to become popular and she's not losing that place and smut sells so who cares about a good story? definitely not her.

and with the bryce thing you're absolutely right, from what i've read she acts like a petulant selfish child most of the time and correct me if i'm wrong but she's not supposed to be like 19 like feyre so she's a grown ass woman. and yeah i definitely think sjm made her plus size because again she got called out for having no diversity in her books but treats it really weirdly. im someone who may not be plus size but pretty close to it and the way sjm writes bryce definitely gives me weird vibes. what i've seen most and even some people talk about is that a lot of characters keep mentioning how they're attracted to bryce, like sjm doesnt expect us ymto believe bryce is really hot by the descriptions she's made unless she keeps reminding us that people wanna fuck her. idk it may just be a bit of my trauma reading into it

im sorry if this ran too long im a bit drunk apologies - 🧶

Warnings: CC spoilers!, plus a little more slander, please consider looking away if you like the series! 🧡💛

‘when i say the ic has no way of knowing that eris isn't all bad i mean sjm keeps writing the story like that’

Right? Please miss Maas I want everyone to get along and be happy, let the drama between Eris and Mor be solved so that everyone can be happy and peaceful 😭

‘how am i suppose to believe that mor knows all truth or whatever her powers even are and that rhys is a mind reader, and azriel and amren are supposed to be able to read people so well, that azriel's shadows see things that others don't but they still think eris is as bad as beron.’

Also we’re kind of kept in the dark about specifics too? Mor’s just said to have ‘truth’ but what does that mean!! Can she force people to tell the truth? Can she see things in their true form?? Has she come out of the cave and seen the sun and the shadows it casts???? (Plato’s cave reference 😎)

Like I can understand to a degree why Rhys doesn’t look into people’s minds and appreciate that part of his character—that while he is morally greyish he has his own rules if that makes sense? He has his own perception of right and wrong which makes him interesting? But I might be confusing canon with fanon here 🫣

And yes I can see how miss Maas has written the IC to be flawed and Eris even says how Rhys is blinded by his love for his family so he has trouble seeing truths or discrepancies in those around him?

‘(i genuinely think sjm planned on making mor and eris mates or something but then people started calling her out on having no diversity and she made mor gay out of nowhere).’

Haha I hadn’t thought of it like that!

I’m still unsure what I’d choose between no representation vs. bad representation? On one hand it’s kind of disheartening/irritating to see sexuality used as such a cheap plot point? Unless miss Maas expands on it properly it’ll feel kind of useless to me? But then on the other hand representation is representation, like at least it’s becoming more prevalent in general media? I think another angle is some of the issues with acotar wouldn’t be as problematic as they are if the book series wasn’t so popular? But because it’s liked by so many people it’s also under much more intensive scrutiny when I don’t know if Miss Maas even planned for it to be taken so seriously as it is in some places? Not that the analysis is a bad thing, though, it’s interesting to see different things pointed out if I’d missed them the first time? (Particularly with Emerie and her descriptions of beauty? I hadn’t noticed it in the first read through but then saw some other people pointing it out, as well as other things?)

‘but he didn't actually hurt her (that was kier) and one look at the autumn court would be enough to tell them that mor would have been hurt even worse if beron had seen her so how did they not put 2 and 2 together.’

I suppose while Eris didn’t hurt her, Mor was in an extremely vulnerable position and the with Eris already being from the autumn court it would be easy to make the assumption that he would have inherited the beliefs in his father? Also with the saying of ‘if you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem’—I think that’s contextual, but for the sake of the point it’s making, I’m using it here—Eris didn’t do anything to help Mor that we know of, and also according to Mor’s narrative Eris said some cruel things, but then on the other hand since Eris hasn’t done or said anything exactly to contradict what Mor’s said so I’m not going to blame the IC for being protective and standing with her on what was likely an extremely traumatising moment for her? Honestly I guess it would be kind of weird and shitty if they doubted her to be honest 😭

‘im sorry to say but mor was in fact a bitch but i get what you're saying like she's justified in her anger (in a way)’

I expressed myself wrong, sorry 😭

Mor definitely said something bad, but I’m not going to write her in cbmthy to continue making horrid comments like that when nobody else is around, it was kind of a one-off thing so hopefully she won’t be a bitch in the rest of the story, just temporarily 🤭🧡💛

‘yeah trying to make someone who just attempted suicide feel bad about themselves is beyond bitchy.’

Hard agree, I might even have to say it was a little uncalled for 🫣😳🫢

‘to me there's no depth to her character tbh like she was just there as the obligatory female friend for feyre, if you compare how developed cass and az are to mor...’

I think in the books/canon she’s a bit contradictory? Maybe? With how harsh she is with Nesta and how gentle she is with Feyre? I can understand it I suppose, thinking of it through Mor’s perception, but it does sometimes feel like Mor was added just to be the one to add drama to the books? There might be something to say about how Mor and Amren are written as female characters as opposed to the batboys who we’re supposed to like and are romantic interests? Fanon Mor though 🧡💛🫂😭

‘like imagine azriel heard it and calls her out and has to admit not only to himself but out loud about all the shitty uncalles for comments he's thrown reader's way’

Okay so this is something I (maybe unnecessarily? I’m genuinely not sure) want to stretch out for a bit and give it time so it doesn’t magically disappear? With Azriel facing some of the things he’s said to reader and why they were so hurtful to her? I think him knowing she tried to kill herself will speed things up, but only to a certain degree since there’s still a lot they don’t know about one another?

‘i refuse to go with sjm's shitty ass "he loved her for 500 years and one day just stopped" bullshit’

I guess one might be able to argue he was naturally coming out of it already but it there’s no evidence to really support that? I guess it would be difficult to implement it though due to the nature of where the story started and who it follows, but it would have made more sense in my opinion if we somehow got to see Az beginning to lose feelings for Mor, but because that would require something to be set before Feyre came along I guess it would be impossible 😭

‘i hope the ic gets to see her being herself with eris though and realize they really dont know shit about her’

They probably will, however reader is the one who intentionally or not does change how she acts around people? To a certain extent reader does try to act more ‘appropriately’ around them? Like she would never speak to Rhys the way she speaks sometimes to Eris 😭 Though I can imagine it might be funny if she accidentally did and then slapped her hand over her mouth because she hadn’t meant to 😭

‘i never thought she was an amazing writer tbh like acotar reads to me like a teenager book almost but with smut’

I was wondering, did you know anything about acotar before you started reading it? I went in blind since a friend recommended it to me, so I had no idea about how popular it was or anything, but I can see how if someone had heard how hyped up people were about it and then read it, it might fall flat and be super disappointing?

‘but also that sjm doubled down on the smut in that book.’

I know I feel quite strongly that Bryce and Hunt didn’t really have that much of an emotional connection compared to their physical one? Though to be fair I also love seeing emotional vulnerability so maybe it was just a difference in taste? If you’re someone who liked that kind of lust-fuelled romance that’s fine, but personally it wasn’t my cup of tea :/

It also felt like when Bryce and Hunt introduced that ‘no sex’ rule (I think maybe in CC2) it was Miss Maas realising she hadn’t built up and kind of tension between them and had jumped into sex way too quickly and so was trying to dial it back which irritated me? I skipped over I think all of the sex scenes in CC2 because I just wanted them to hurry along and get back to the plot? Also I feel like Miss Maas was trying to make them kind of freaky to appeal to the smutty side, like with the dry humping, the electricity (I think a vibrator might have also been used but I skimmed the scenes so I can’t remember) it was just too much for me when I wanted to read about what was happening and wasn’t interested in their relationship at all 😭

‘i honestly dont even know if i'll read any other acotar book because they keep getting worse’

I know I won’t be reading another CC book and will just wait for someone to very kindly write a summary for it, but I’m desperately hoping she won’t mess up another acotar book 😭

If she does though, isn’t it such a relief we have fanfiction? 😭

‘like the spring court had so many fun magic things and then velaris was a city with clubs, the moonstone palace and the hewn city felt more magical at times than the court of dreams.’

I absolutely adore that factor in fantasy books! I particularly like Holly Black’s version of fae, where they live off the land more and are much more tricky to deal with? More folklore-esque, and I wish we saw more of that kind of thing in acotar 😭 I agree the Spring Court with the will-o-wisps was so lovely—To Old Gods is one of my favourite pieces in that aspect and I want to write and read more of that kind of ancient/slightly mythical/sometimes eldritchy magic 😭

‘i also agree that one of the biggest problems with the later books is the amount of smut. i like smut as much as the next person and dont mind reading pwp but in fanfictions not in books i pay for and that are written by professional authors.’

I used to enjoy reading smut in books (I only started reading regularly and realising I enjoyed it in the past four years) because it was new and exciting but I think now if it’s in professionally written books I absolutely adore it and author has nailed emotional connection? And yes, pwp in fanfiction? Great! Love it! But the amount of smut in CC was unbelievable and I suppose that might be how you feel about acosf? I have to admit I liked it but I think it’s heavily to do with enjoying the characters 😭 Bryce and Hunt in CC? I don’t want to read about that, please spare my eyes 😭😞

‘so who cares about a good story? definitely not her.’

I think I disagree with you here? Maybe? I can’t remember the CC books in particularly great detail? 😭 I think actually for the most part I did find the plot parts a little slow, and Bryce and Hunt made it worse for me, however I loved the ending to CC2, and I enjoyed the asteri story but I think the power levels got out of control? (Don’t even get me started on how Bryce literally doesn’t earn her magic, it infuriates me so much!!! Feyre, Aelin, and Nesta all went through some kind of training and Bryce literally just touches a stone then inherits starlight and has the audacity to say she worked for it? Babes, no.)

And actually with miss Maas being lazy in writing—her using a pill so that Bryce can understand the acotar world was so obviously a deus ex machina. It was so cheap and basic there wasn’t a single amount of thought that went into it.

‘and correct me if i'm wrong but she's not supposed to be like 19 like feyre so she's a grown ass woman.’

Yup. She’s twenty-three 😐

‘what i've seen most and even some people talk about is that a lot of characters keep mentioning how they're attracted to bryce, like sjm doesnt expect us ymto believe bryce is really hot by the descriptions she's made unless she keeps reminding us that people wanna fuck her.’

Honestly that wasn’t that big of an issue for me? Like I get it’s fantasy so I can excuse every love interest and even some who aren’t being attracted to the fmc, but I did definitely have an issue with how lust-fuelled and physical it was 😶‍🌫️

Like with Feyre and Tarquin it’s made clear they’re both attractive/beautiful people but I got the impression that ultimately they liked (?) one another for who they were? To an extent they had a kind of understanding and felt more honest?

‘idk it may just be a bit of my trauma reading into it’

Not sure how much it will help but I’m sending you internet hugs :/ 🫂🫂🫂

‘im sorry if this ran too long im a bit drunk apologies - 🧶’

Haha, don’t apologise it was fun getting to discus all these things with you!! 🧡💛