#peisistratus of pylos
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#another one thank you#telemachus#telemachus of ithaca#pisistratus#pisistratus of pylos#peisistratus#peisistratus of pylos#telemachus x peisistratus#telemachus x pisistratus#telestratus#the odyssey#homers odyssey#greek myth#greek mythology#bellspuns art
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Looked on ao3 for any telestratus content and realized that we are all starving please telestratus fans take my hand I need to know that you’re out there somewhere
#I woke up in a cold sweat and was like ‘I should read telestratus’#I am right of course#but there’s only like 17 fics :(#telemachus#peisistratus#peisistratus of pylos#I love them so much#telestratus#the odyssey#tagamemnon
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i need more people to make telestratus content...however my boy peisistratus is underrated asf 😔
#i miss them ok...#a part of me is secretly hoping piesis is in the next few sagas of epic...#look the gay greek myth nerd in me is hoping#epic the musical#the odyssey#homers odyssey#telemachus of ithaca#telemachus#peisistratus#pisistratus#peisistratus of pylos#pisistratus of pylos#telestratus#riv rambles#greek myth#greek mythology#homeric epics
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i cant believe homer invented the “and there was only one bed” trope in 800 BCE when telemachus and peisistratus of pylos go on a month-long coming of age journey together and bond over their shared grief over what they’ve lost in a war they were too young to remember anything before and they’re so close telemachus is nudging peisistratus awake with his foot at 2am and peisistratus isn’t even bothered by it he just goes “ughhh 5 more minutes.” hey did i mention there was only one bed
#REASONS WHY TELEMACHUS IS A GAY LITTLE FRUIT. NUMBER ONE [holds up peisistratus]#my favorite part of the odyssey is telemachus’ gay coming of age story#fun first dates include a front seat viewing of helen and menelaus’ collapsing marriage#sobbing over your dead and missing family members who you cant even remember#and finishing up at the fortress of dreams (cot on porch)#anyways theyre boyfriends. to me <3#telemachus#peisistratus of pylos#telepeis
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i love how everybody's peisistratus looks different, especially hair color... personally mind is blond but that makes him look exactly like my apollo design (blond with some sort of half up/half down styling) so mayyyybe i should rethink that
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I dont know what i was thinking while doing this.
#art#artists on tumblr#design#epic the musical#fanart#epic#telemachus#the odyssey#epic telemachus#telemachus x peisistratus#pisistratus#pisistratus of pylos#telemachus of ithaca
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OMG I JUST SAW SOMEONE USE PYLOSWOLF FOR PEISISTRATUS (OF PYLOS) AND TELEMACHUS AND BATTLEWOLF FOR TELENEO (TELEMACHUS AND NEOPTOLEMUS/PYRRHUS)
HOW DID I JUST FIND OUT ABOUT THESE SHIP NAMES???? THEY'RE FUCKING GENIUS. LIEK KUDOS TO THE PERSON WHO MADE THEM
#telemachus x peisistratus#teleneo#neomachus#trojan foals#i've also seen someone use trojan foals for teleneo#telemachus#peisisitratus of pylos#pyrrhus#neoptolemus
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Now that we have Peisistratus, Nausicaä, and Telemachus…
How about Polycaste?????,, 💥💥
Here she is! :D
#now the group is fully formed#idk anything about polycaste she’s apperantly peisistratuses sister and she washes telemachus i think when he comes to pylos#kinda regret the beads on her neck but it’s okay we vibe with them#greek mythology#homers odyssey#the odyssey#my art#my doodles#polycaste#peisistratus
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#distracting you from the fact i have 3 other art reqs i need to finish#:)#epic the musical#epic the musical fanart#-kind of?#epic telemachus#telemachus#telemachus of ithaca#peisistratus#pisistratus#peisistratus of pylos#pisistratus of pylos#telemachus x peisistratus#telestratus#bellspuns art
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Hey guys..
Drops Peisistratus/Pisistratus art and runs..
#pisistratus#peisistratus#PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY BADDIE PRINCE OF PYLOS!!#Him and telemachus are married guys its canon/j#the odyssey#odyssey
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Did Odysseus have horses or not? (An Iliad and Odyssey Analysis)
This little thing came from a post made by @wolfythewitch and my response in regards to some Cephallenian horses that can still be found to Kephallonia to this day: see here So here is a more extensive analysis on the question of horses and Ithaca or the kingdom of the Cephallenians in general
So as we know from antiquity, horses are known to be a sign of nobility, proof of status and of course a valuable animal for work such as farming or war. Horses play a very important role in the homeric poems with of course the most infamous example of all the Trojan Horse that was the symbol of Troy and became its destruction. Many heroes have had the pseudonym "tamer of horses" including Diomedes and Hector.
It seems also that horses are linked most to some of the richest and most powerful kingdoms are shown to have beautiful or good horses. For example except for Troy that as also linked to god Poseidon and thus to the sumbol of Horse, we also see Argos be famous for the horses (and king Diomedes earning his name from it) or even Sparta (Menelaus providing horses to Telemachus which are praised) and Pylos when Nestor also provides Telemachus and Peisistratus with horses.
But what about Ithaca?
As mentioned above and as others mentioned before me, it seems that Ithaca, the tiny rugged place Odysseus speaks about does not seem to have terrains that are capable of hosting horses like wide plains or wide and smooth roads where horses can trot freely or graze. The existence of animals for work as well seems to be touched in post-homeric sources such as Hyginus Fabulae where we see the infamous story of Odysseus pretending madness. He ties to his plow a donkey and a cow instead. Both of the animals are more frequent for plowing fields or carrying loads especially donkeys and mules that are still famous in Greece and greek islands and they are known for being capable of marching across the wild terrains and uphill paths.
Ironically, or not so much, Ithaca seems to have a lack of horses according to Telemachus himself for when Menelaus offers him parting gifts, including horses, Telemachus replies to him thus:
However the horses I shall not take with me to Ithaca but I shall leave them to you, with your permission (lit: to your glory): for you are a king of wide fields, rich in clove and galingale and plenty of wheat that is dicocum and white. However in Ithaca there are neither wide roads nor grassy meadows; place that is fit for goats to walk and graze on rather than horses. For no island that leans in the salt (here: sea) is fit for riding and grazing horses: Ithaca least of all.
(Translation by me)
So here Telemachus seems to imply that not only most of silands have unfriendly terrain for horses but also that Ithaca is "least of all". Now there are a couple of things here that are toned out:
Ithaca is described as a ragged place by Odysseus as well when he speaks on his homeland to the Phaeaces and even nowadays it is indeed true that Ithaca has more mountain plains than wide fields given how small the island is as well and in general Greece is over 80% mountains anyways.
Homer makes Telemachus speak on how Ithaca is the "least of all" suitable for horses. Probably that is a small hyperbole. For starters maybe one could speak on "least of all" in the islands of the Ionian sea instead, which Telemachus probably is familiar with because islands in the Aegean sea are much dryer and uphill than the islands on the Ionian sea so it is probably a hyperbole used by Homer to show how unsuitable Ithaca is for riding horses or comparing them to islands of the Ionian sea instead (because see for example an image of Folegandros which has even less greenery for horses to feed on:
However the image that Ithaca is probably boarderline hostile for horses and riding is also linked to the fact on how Ithaca is often perceived as a land rich in certain products such as olives or fruit trees (due to the mild climate) but a generally poorer island and kingdom compared to others like Mycenae, Argos or Sparta. When Telemachus visits Sparta is is mesmerized by her beauty and richness.
Even if we do have examples in Ithaca that show that Ithaca is not a weak or penniless kingdom (Penelope sits on a chair with ivory which is an exotic material very hard to find or Odysseus leaves for war wearing a crimson woolen mantle that is decorated with a golden brooch. Both gold and the color crimson were extremely valuable. For example crimson pigmentation is found only at the shells that come from the east so it would require good economy to obtain) Ithaca is by general idea a poorer and less powerful kingdom than the rest (Odysseus is one of the kings that brings the least amount of ships with him at the number of 12 and around 603 men in total including himself)
The absense of horses or the hint that Ithaca does not breed horses at all, according to some readings of the passage, is also linked to the lack of powerful status for the kingdom. The kingdom itself is not one of the great powerful kingdoms of Greece like his peers from Mycenae or Argos and the fact that a status symbol like Horses is absent is rather interesting way to show that. In fact Ithaca seems to gain fame by its people rather than its political power.
(See how Odysseus calls the island κουροτρόφο aka "nurturer of men". Odysseus implies that the importance of his kingdom is not to the status symbols but to its people and their braveness)
But can we really talk on complete absence of horses in Odysseus's life?
Cephallonia's Semi-wild Horses:
As I mentioned to the post I reblogged under @wolfythewitch post we do seem to have a breed of horses to the area. The horses are being left to roam about according to an ancient custom because Cephallonia has no much space to keep them so the farmers do tame them but leave them roam free to the plains and now they are part of the national park of Aenus mountain:
These horses have been adapted to ride perfectly well to the rough rocky terrains of the mountain. Now of course the breed was probably imported from the mainland (most likely from Pindos mountains). Cephallonia has also been suggested as the location of the homeric Ithaca (and the giver of name of his kingdom) due to the fact that it deprives from homeric description that Cephallonia was "the most far western island" or, as I would probably be willing to believe, that maybe the land of modern Ithaca and Cephallonia were connected by land at that time (take that hypothesis with a grain of salt but I think it is highly possible) other locations suggested were even Lefkas for they discovered Mycenaean remains there
It is of course unclear when these horses enter the terrain. Itis possible that the horses arrive way after the bronze age that Odysseus ellegedly lived or even after Homer's time even, if Homer doesn't mention them or mentions that horses are not possible to grow in Ithaca.
It could also be, though, that homer completely dispatches horses from Ithaca to that degree again to point out the difference of status between Ithaca and Sparta. And, another totally wild guess, is also interesting how the animal symbol of Poseidon is absent from the island of Ithaca to the poem that speaks about the hubris of Odysseus against Poseidon and the god's wrath against him! Food for thought! XD
No horses in Ithaca doesn't necessarily mean Cephallinians had no horses at all:
Another thing that people often forget is that Odysseus was not king of Ithaca only. The kingdom of Cephallenians was a kingdom that spread over several islands AND part of the mainland where modern day Aitoloakarnania is:
The kingdom is not limited to the island of Ithaca only. Acarnania is also a wide area. Horses can possibly be bred there and also be providing the islands if needed. It is interesting because Odysseus is not only in posession of a chariot in the Iliad but he also seems perfectly capable of riding horses. In the Iliad for example both he and Diomedes steal the Thracian Horses in rhapsody 10:
So she spoke and he (Diomedes) recognized the goddess's voice and swiftly jumped on the horses: Odysseus smote them with his bow and they trotted towards the fast ships of the Achaeans
(Translation by me)
Interestingly Homer uses the 3rd singular of the verb: ἐπεβήσετο (he rode) but then proceeds using the 3rd plural ἐπέτοντο (they flew/rode away). So what could it be? Could it be perhaps that Odysseus jumped on the horse behind Diomedes and smote it with his bow to start trotting away? In that case we could speak indeed on the fact that clearly Diomedes was a better rider than Odysseus given that he is more familiar with horses. However if both of them ride away that means that Odysseus is not completely oblivious of horses he just doesn't seem to be so capable with them indeed. In fact the first is rather confirmed at the passage that follows soon after:
Then Odysseus beloved to Zeus restrained the quick horses, while the son of Tydeus jumped on the ground, placing the bloody spoils to the hands of Odysseus and once more he rode the horses; hitting them with a whip and nothing stopped them from flying to the hollow ships, as they so much wished to be.
(Translation by me)
So in this scene Diomedes seems to be the protagonist, being more knowledgable on horses (he is the one who rides first and trots) while Odysseus plays a more auxiliary role (steeds and holds the horses or holds the spoils in hand) but he doesnt seem completely oblivious to the exietence or treatment of horses. He both knows how to restrain and steer them but he is also in posession of a chariot with which he fights in the Iliad and covers the retreat of Diomedes and later that same chariot comes to pick him up from the battle (see rhapsody 11).
Conclusions:
So Homer seems to be sticking to the notion that horses are not widedly used in Ithaca or the rest of the kingdom due to its rough terrain. Not only does Telemachus speak of it but we also see the image in Iliad where Odysseus is clearly not as capable rider as Diomedes given how while they trot away. Of course needs to be noted how the horses are often depicted unbriddled and without a saddle in the artwork so it is also interesting to think that Odysseus wouldn't be able to ride without equipment while Diomedes who is more familiar with horses he has no problem.
Odysseus seems to stick more to chariots than horse riding which also indicates that he is not familiar with horse riding to that extent or that he is not particularly confident in it, however he seems capable of doing it.
The existence of the horse breed in Cephallonia as well as the fact that the kingdom also involves the mainland could indicate that horses were not unknown to the Cephallenians just not widedly used. Odysseus speaks many times on horses and their beauty and strength so he is familiar with them and he can judge (bet he also learnt a bunch from his fellow kings like Diomedes and the idea of Diomedes showing Odysseus even more stuff about horses sounds a cute image doesn't it!?) but from the incidents such as the one from the Iliad, suggest that he is not confident rider.
His knowledge seems less extensive compared to his knowledge on other stuff such as sheep and goats (he praises the flock of Polyphemus for example, elemet that I also used to my retelling/one-shot fic "Escape from Cyclops Island: Hubris") or stars and navigation so indeed even if he does have knowledge on riding or chariots he is not very confident in it.
So I tend to be somewhere in the middle; I don't believe that the Cephallinians had no horses at all or that they had no idea on horses (Telemachus himself has some knowledge after all since he mentions immediately to Menelaus that his gift would be unsuitable for his land) it is just that if they can host horses it is just some very sturdy and adaptable ones like the ones used at mountain passages and even those were not widedly used. They would probably have more mules or donkeys for transportation like it happens to mountain terrains and use more cattle as farming animals. The use of horses must have been very scarce to the point of providing them general knowledge but not as widedly used as in other places
But what do you guys think? Let me know!
#katerinaaqu analyzes#greek mythology#odysseus#tagamemnon#the odyssey#odyssey#the iliad#homeric poems#diomedes#odysseus and diomedes#ancient greek horses#horses in ancient greek mythology#horses#diomedes and odysseus#diomedes of argos#odysseus of ithaca#menelaus#telemachus#homer odyssey#homer iliad#homeric epics#iliad#homer's odyssey#homer's iliad#ithaca#cephallonia#greek islands
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Thinking about how Menelaus talked of his good old friend Odysseus in book 4 of the Odyssey
Thinking about how he would’ve offered Odysseus an Argive city and asked him to move in along with his wealth and his son and his people, how they would’ve met each other frequently, delighted in each other’s company, until death enfolded them both
Thinking about the possibility of him actually doing that after Odysseus’s return and Odysseus actually going there with his family and people. Once again Penelope would return to her homeland for a visit though oftentimes she would just chill with Helen, and Telemachus would be able to visit Pylos once in a while, and Odysseus would be thrilled to meet up with all the friends he had made during the war, Menelaus, Nestor, and especially…Diomedes. Yes, Diomedes—but as he found out his dear friend was no longer in Argos. Now what would happen if Odysseus went on another journey to seek him out, maybe taking Telemachus along perhaps Peisistratus too— (Diomedes’s exile probably didn’t happen in the Epic Cycle but nevertheless…) Anyways everybody reunites with their friends and they all happily live ever after—
I need to see this so bad.
#ofc he loves his Ithaca and he’d miss the olive tree bed had he actually left tho#but still…would you choose to leave the homeland you’ve been longing to return to after twenty years of suffering?#odysseus#the odyssey#homer’s odyssey#tagamemnon#greek mythology#the iliad#still you have to admit it’s such an entertaining idea to think abt#and fsr the friendship between Menelaus and Odysseus is kinda underrated and I must bring this up once more#menelaus#nestor#diomedes#they’re good pals forever#oh yeah and telestratus too#telemachus#peisistratus#let them see each other once in a while#the epic cycle#Lyculī sermōnēs
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here, have a Peisistratus @prince-of-pylos
;; ' THERE GOES MY BAAABBBYYYYY '
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oh wait, have you heard of the old original lines for ‘We’ll Be Fine’??? cause i remember them, remember jumping out of my seat when i heard the changed lyrics.
it used to be: “Cause I got in a fight and sailed to an island! And I’ve never left home shores.” and then it got changed to: “Cause I got in a fight and I didn’t die! I’ve never felt strong before.”
and my heart still aches a bit at the possibility that we could have had peisistratus??? telemachus definitely goes to An island due to the implications of the lyrics. he could’ve gone to pylos, athena could’ve gotten tele and peisi to meet! AARGHH
YEAHHH the Telemachy was also potentially referenced again in that bit of Hold Them Down with Antinous pointing out the missing prince on a ‘diplomatic mission’ and the whole murder plot. Jorge’s original drafts/demos definitely followed a bit closer to the original Odyssey before things got changed. No clue if that meant we would’ve 100% had Peisistratus, but it seems Telemachus didn’t and won’t sneak out to run away for this mission in Epicverse with how things are running right now unless it just gets briefed over. Telemachus and Odysseus having their reunion song after the suitors slaughter might also indicate towards Telemachus never leaving. This also means Eumaus probably getting skipped and 💔, but alas. For retelling developmental purposes… Let’s see where it goes :9 Whatever comes, at least we get banger songs (emotional damage) out of it JWKSHSKSNSN
#epic has became its own entity in my head and I’ve kinda accepted its differences from og odyssey#still fun to compare now and then tho BANDBSNSB#deeply encourage epic fans to read the odyssey if they haven’t bc it’s peak#grisly to get through at first but very much worth it
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telestratus except it's them hanging out in ithaca after odysseus gets back being like "hehe penelope invited pisistratus here but she doesn't know we're gay" meanwhile the whole reason penelope invited him in the first place was bc she got tired of listening to tele's homosexual yapping
#can yall tell im in my telestratus feels rn#based on my recent reblogs#i just love them sm#they need more attention#the odyssey#odysseus of ithaca#penelope of ithaca#telemachus of ithaca#pisistratus of pylos#peisistratus#telestratus
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draw more telemachus x pisistratus and my life is YOURS 🙏
well if you really want...
i liked to make something related to the lavander flowers,i really like them and i know they can be asociate with beauty, devotion and love at first sight, wich is very acurate for them.
#art#athena and ody are so proud#artists on tumblr#design#epic the musical#fanart#epic#epic odysseus#odysseus#the odyssey#epic telemachus#telemachus#telemachus of ithaca#epic athena#athena#pisistratus of pylos#pisistratus#telemachus x peisistratus#lavander
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