#ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Random QL Superlatives: 2024 Edition

Well I see @lurkingshan started the trend, so I better hop on

Most Heartbreaking Use of Weather: Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo

gif by @my-rose-tinted-glasses

I am going to be honest. Korea really fucking came for my throat with multiple shows that wielded weather as a weapon against my emotional state. But Hwang Da Seul absolutely wins the award for destruction of my very soul via snow. I swear to god every time it snowed in this fucking show I was losing my mind over the scene that played out before me. First it was doorways that crushed me (shout out to To My Star 2), and now it’s three snowflakes on Do Hoe’s cheek. 

Most Emotionally Charged Inanimate Object: Ossan no Pantsu ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka (aka No One Cares for an Old Man’s Underwear)

gif by @avorbl

Not a BL but one of the most important stories involving queerness of the year imo. When Makoto went back to that store to buy that wallet for Kakeru I kid you not I spontaneously erupted into tears. This was not the first nor the last time that this show made me bawl like a hungry newborn, but it for sure was one of the best indicators that Makoto was not only beginning to accept, but internalize and reshape his worldview to be more loving and accepting of difference. 

Most Realistic Fight Between a Lawyer and Henchmen: Doku Koi: Doku Mo Sugireba Koi to Naru (aka Love is Like a Poison)

gif by @conscbgb

Step aside Matthew Murdock! There’s a new lawyer in town and he absolutely cannot fight for shit! Honestly an iconic moment in this show to see Shiba Ryo take an offensive stance and then immediately get his ass beat in to the ground because he’s a fucking lawyer, not a goddamn superhero. Also it gives Haruta a wonderful little opportunity to show off his skills and to save his loser boyfriend who loves him. 

Most Important Hand Flex Since Pride and Prejudice (2005): The Trainee 

gif by @namtanlovesfilm

HELLO! I THINK WE MOVED PAST JANE’S DESK GRAB A LITTLE TOO QUICKLY! Seriously, not only was it a great hand scene in general (which you know I live for) but it was also a quick and easy way to demonstrate 1) Jane has feelings for Ryan and is trying to hold back and 2) Jane understands the inherent power imbalance between him as an AD and Ryan’s boss and Ryan as an intern. Zero points for Judy.  

Best Creepy Smile: Dead Friend Forever

gif by @lilitblaukatz

HI HELLO I’M ALREADY YELLING AGAIN! BARCODE! BARCODE TINNASIT! As disappointed as I was with the way DFF ended, I was blown out of the fucking water by Barcode’s performance as Non. From KinnPorsche to here that boy has grown astronomically as both an actor and singer, and I’m really proud of him. He had to navigate a lot of different emotional centers with some incredibly terrible things happening to his character. He was able to make Non extremely sympathetic and also creepy as hell! Be On Cloud lost out big time with Barcode leaving the company. 

Best Use of a Dildo: Knock Knock Boys

gif by @pharawee

Honestly for all the BLs that include sex, we rarely get the acknowledgement that sex toys exist, much less the actual usage of said sex toys. I loved that Almond visited a sex shop, purchased a dildo, and that we got to watch a scene of him attempting to use it. This show was honestly the biggest surprise of the year for me in terms of enjoyment. I wasn’t even really interested in this show but love Seng and wanted to support his work and then this was absolutely delightful and honestly Almond and Latte stole the show for me. Good job boys!

Best Distinction Between Reality and Fiction: BL Drama no Shuen ni Narimashta: Crank Up Hen! (aka I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama)

gif by @itagakimizuki

Full offense to a particular corner of fan culture, the way that the boundaries between real life and fiction have been known to blend when it comes to emotional bonds between fans and famous people can be very toxic and genuinely dangerous to the health and safety of everyone involved. It is difficult for me to think of a show that made me laugh as hard, as loudly, or as often as I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama did, and yet it included one of the most innocuous but brilliant lines of the year when Akafuji realized that his feelings for Aoyanagi were Real and that he could not have those feelings and continue to think of himself as Aoyanagi’s fan. Iconic. 

Best Use of Subtle Foreshadowing: Love for Love’s Sake 

gif by @my-rose-tinted-glasses

Shout out to the sound of water, shout out to some of the opening visuals, shout out to red rimmed eyes, and video game malfunctions that increased as time went on, and shout out to Tae Myung Ha being absolutely drenched after running through the school. Not only were the performances commendable throughout but the story itself was phenomenally supported by hair and makeup, sound, and special effects. I beg you all never to forget the importance of those that work behind the scenes, because goddamn did so much of this show suddenly get darker with context.  

Best Backing Track to Hear Over My Tears: Tsukuritai Onna to Tabetai Onna (aka She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat)

Kasuga sitting alone in the darkness of her own car, calling her father and officially, permanently severing ties with her father because she has found her strength thanks to the people she currently has in her life was such a highlight of this year. And of course they really drive the stake through my heart by lifting that entire scene up by having Kasuga walk out of the lonely dark and into warm companionship with fucking ‘Chosen Family’ by Rina Sawayama and Elton John playing in the background. WHAT A PERFECT SONG CHOICE! I am about to cry just thinking about it. Also, I definitely totally did not pause in the middle of typing up this post just to rewatch that scene…I don’t know what you’re talking about….

Best Use of Catholicism: Marahuyo Project 

God. This show struck an incredible number of layers when it gave us Archie. The way his grief and his fear and his internalized homophobia caused him to say and do some truly vile, harmful shit to the queer kids on the island was so heartbreaking and real. I have not really gotten the image of Archie’s neck where he’s been scratching at the rosary out of my fucking head since I watched it. This show was beautiful, and brilliant, and full of light and life, and pain, and it included an intersex character which is only the second of the 180+ shows I’ve watched out of Thailand, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and the Phillipines to have done so. 

Best Use of Internal Screaming: Cherry Magic Thailand

gif by @zhouxiangs

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH)

Best 'Mark Me Down as Scared and Horny' Face: Unknown

Wei Qian was not prepared for the fact that sending Zhi Yuan to the United States only made Zhi Yuan stronger. I want to acknowledge that this show had a chokehold on me almost all the way through the end for being rather heavy, but that I was especially impressed with Modi's performance as Wei Qian. And it must be said that the look of panic in his eyes when Zhi Yuan feeds him the congee is comedy gold.

Gayest Little Run: Love in the Big City

(could not find any gifs of Go Yeong running in the park so please enjoy this lovely gif by @taeminie )

Again this is not a BL but the way my tumblr community has engaged with this book and this show is one of my favorite parts of the entire year and this is still a really important piece of queer media. I really hope Nam Yoon Su wins all the fucking awards for his performance as Go Yeong. He breathed so much life and texture into that character and it was a joy to watch him take this wonderfully difficult and complicated character on such a beautiful emotional journey. Also he fully committed to the gay little run and that alone is award worthy. 

__ Shout out to all the thoughtful, intentional, and beautiful queer shows that got made this year. Please tag me in other superlatives if they get made, I want to see what people loved or connected to in the show offerings this year. Love you, family <3

@bengiyo asked to be tagged in superlatives.

[starryalpacasstuff]

Random QL Superlatives: 2024

Thinking back, I actually don't think I watched a lot of ql in 2024, and a lot of the shows I was watching are indefinitely on hold due to lack of time. I had no idea how to go about making this but well, I tried.

Most Comforting Show: Tsukuritai Onna to Tabetai Onna (She Loves To Cook and She Loves To Eat)

I binged both seasons over the course of a few weeks and I absolutely adored this show. It's so so lovely and it feels a bit like a warm blanket draped around you on a cold winter morning. It's wonderful

Most Catharsis Providing Show: Ossan no Pantsu ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka (No One Cares for an Old Man’s Underwear)

I know, what? But this entire show was actually so cathartic for me, with so many people in the show learning acceptance and understanding, but also the show ending with the message that 'not everyone will come around, and that's okay', and the marriage at the end, oh my god. And catharsis is the only word I can think of for the feeling I got from this show besides vindication, so that's what we're going with.

Hottest Main Character I'm Now Into: Jane from The Trainee

Number of people who are surprised: 0. Competence is hella hot

Saddest That I haven't Been Able To Finish It Yet: Love In The Big City

Literally the first one I'm gonna finish off the on pause list (hopefully soon??) 😭

Best Beatdown: Mahasamut beating up the shitty father, obviously (Love Sea)

I suck at finding gifs so please accept this instead. Anyways, Mahasamut beating the guy up has got to be one of the best moments of the show, 10/10, more bl mcs should beat up shitty parents/exes, this is the second time Fort has beat up someone on screen and it's in his second bl which is very funny and also excellent.

Best Mutual Angsty Yearning From An Already Together Couple: Thanwa and Peak (Knock Knock, Boys!)

Once again, I suck at finding gifs but know that the moment I'm thinking of is when they're both in front of the hotel. These two absolutely stole the whole show for me, and the angst in the final few episodes about their relationship was delicious.

The Show Which's Existence Confounds And Delights Me Most: Romil and Jugal

This one wasn't made in 2024 (it was made in 2017, which only adds to the confusion and delight) but I watched it in 2024 and no one on BL tumblr besides me has watched it yet anyways so I say it counts. I have no idea how this show was ever created, and more importantly, how it managed to be good. It's an Indian BL from 2017 produced by a woman known almost entirely for decently popular tv serials (aka soap operas), I do not know how it came into existence but I am infinitely grateful for it's existence. (And it's available for online!! with subtitles!! for free!! as long as you have your region set to india that is... still a win in my books!)

That's all I have, this was so fun! Do tag me if you end up making one, I'd love to see other people's lists

Tagging people who asked to be tagged in the superlatives posts! @lurkingshan @bengiyo @happypotato48 @wen-kexing-apologist

[twig-tea]

Spoiler-free Pitch for Oppan (Ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka)

Thanks to @isaksbestpillow generously creating subtitles for this show we have access to arguably the best family drama of the year, and what has become one of my favourite series of all time.

The premise is essentially: Makoto, a 'traditional' family man in his 50s who feels alienated from his wife and two kids, decides to learn to 'update' his beliefs with the help of a young gay man who befriends him.

There are so many pitfalls and ways this premise could go wrong, and the show falls into none of them. Daichi, the gay character that befriends Makoto, has a boyfriend, and they both have their own arcs. The friendship is two-way, and they both benefit from the relationship. Makoto's wife, son, and daughter all also have arcs, and we get to understand and love all of these characters. Nobody is in this show exclusively as a foil for Makoto; everyone gets to be their own person. The show is careful to not only show multiple experiences of gay characters, but also to chastise people in the show for making assumptions, as those can be hurtful, even when well-intentioned. And yes, while it isn't the focus of the show, we do get to see some of Daichi and Madoka's romance.

This show is so well-written, each episode is satisfying and builds on the previous one. The journey to improvement is not a straight line but a spiral, and Oppan depicts that so well. The mistakes Makoto makes are believable and realistic. And the way Makoto's relationships improve in every aspect of his life as he works on himself is gradual, realistically depicted, and so, so satisfying to watch. Trust is earned, and we see him slowly earn trust over time as he changes his behaviour. We also see the damage his past behaviour has wrought, and see him reconcile himself to that.

One of the best things this show does is viscerally illustrate how harmful upholding societal stigma and judgment is to those you love, and to yourself. Makoto's toxic masculinity, homophobia, amatonormativity, and judgment of anything he deems as "silly" or "abmnormal" hold his family back from connecting with him, and hold himself back from experiencing joy. Themes include (but are not limited to) sexuality, gender presentation, idol fandom, BL fandom, makeup, fashion, and workplace culture. And it isn't just familial relationships this show cares about; it touches on friendships, romantic, sibling, parental, and coworker relationships.

The lesson at the core of Makoto's journey is that genuine connection with others is how we heal and find joy, and that we can only have that genuine connection if we're able to make space for others to be themselves in our presence through kindness. And it's that core that makes this show so powerful, and made me cry (with happiness, catharsis, and relief) so many times. I genuinely feel like it healed something in me to watch this show.

Even putting all of that aside, this show is funny, and genuinely satisfying as a story arc. There's Carlos, the family dog who always seems to know what's going on and nudges Makoto when he needs it. Makoto's actor, Harada Taizo, makes some incredible faces. There are hilarious cut-aways mid-scene, usually when someone is getting too intense with their fansquee. The family dynamic, especially the sibling behaviour between Moe and Kakeru, is so hilariously familiar. It's not a chore to watch this show; it manages to be kind and healing and also fun.

Anyway. If that's not enough of a pitch for you, I've written about all of the 11 episodes individually, including outlining where and how each made me cry: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 . And I'm not the only one; if you want more company while watching, @bengiyo, @lurkingshan @mikuni14 and @mynamisnotthepoint wrote a bunch about this show too mostly broken out by episode.

And to relive the magic, @avorbl, @theside-b and @my-rose-tinted-glasses created some gorgeous gifs!

Siiri has instructions on her blog, but if you need help watching this show, feel free to DM me or send an ask.

[lurkingshan]

Japanese QL Corner

Coming in hot this week with a new show plus an ongoing favorite. We also have Takara no Vidro and Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko! next week--we are back in the jql flood (yay!). Look forward to those and pray for international distribution so we can all watch TNV soon.

I Hear the Sunspot

I am so hype for this show. Twelve whole episodes to tell this story properly! The film version, Silhouette of Your Voice, is very cute but suffers from its short runtime. This one seems like it will be a more faithful adaptation of the full manga and I am thrilled. We started strong this week with the introductions of our main characters, Kohei and Taichi. I really love the way they are calibrated in this version, and Taichi is an instant blorbo. I also liked the choice to open with a look at Kohei's despair in the future before going back to the start, as it grounds everything nicely in the stakes for him. The show is also already doing a great job of unpacking Kohei's perspective on his hearing loss and the way others treat him as a result.

@nicks-den is also planning to fan sub this one, so look out for those updates. I recommend watching on Gaga when it comes out to give it the views and then revisiting with the better subs later in the week.

Bonus: Ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka

Episodes 7 and 8 have been made available on @isaksbestpillow's blog, and this show continues to be glorious. Highlights from these episodes include the return of Hasegawa (with newly glowing skin) and Kakeru continuing to make friends and settle on a career path in makeup, Mika learning to let her family appreciate her, Makoto's confusion about whether Kakeru likes boys or girls, Kakeru's frustration that he's trying to figure that out at all, Daichi's anxiety that he is making Madoka's life more difficult, Madoka's fear of losing him due to his inability to come out, Makoto's continued efforts to confront his senior and change his workplace for the better, and a lot of hard won bonding and connection at the festival. Phew, this drama packs in so much in every installment and it all feels so natural.

My favorite thread in these episodes was the parallel they drew between Makoto and Kakeru and their struggles with communicating effectively. Kakeru's impatience and dismissiveness toward his parents' attempts to connect with him at the start of the story are akin to Makoto’s own former impatience and dismissiveness about anything he didn’t understand, and it was such a huge moment of growth for Kakeru to recognize that. Part of growing up is developing empathy for your parents and recognizing your own similarities to them, and I love that he is starting to open up and give Makoto grace as he earns his trust back. I also loved the conversation between Makoto and Madoka and the way they helped each other understand their respective situations better. This show keeps surprising me with how attentive it is to all of these relationships and connections.

Passing to @bengiyo for a manga update.

[my-rose-tinted-glasses]

There is so much airing right now. It's insane. July is already crazy but with more coming in August I'll probably do a shorter version of this mid august to kinda keep all the shows straight in my head. And I know we still have a couple of days left this month but I wanted to do this to close the weekend. Also because I'm watching a lot this is gonna be long. And also. Spoilers and opinions below, read at your own risk.

QL - Currently Watching

🇹🇭 4 Minutes [1/8] - Living for the visuals in this show. Just like with DFF, I feel the framing is very intentional. Only one episode so, for now, I'm very intrigued by the premise and the characters and will be looking forward to the meta that will no doubt be a big part of watching this show for me, as with dff. Also, is it just me or is Jes just ridiculously handsome?

🇯🇵 Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko! [4/8] - I love it here. I'm having such a good time with this show. Hiroko is the master of selective perception even when Ayaka is trying so hard to make her see. I'm looking forward to see what happens next. Also we had a small moment of running to the beloved!!!

🇹🇭 Century of Love [5/10] - Did not see this coming. After The Trainee this is the thai bl I look forward to the most weekly. Daou is doing excellent work, even as he's softening because he's in looooove, I can still see the demeanour of the 100 years old man. Love reading all the theories after the last episode. I'm on team Vee is Vad, and the girl is an imposter with sinister intent.

🇯🇵 I Hear the Sunspot [5/12] - It's excellent. I love Taichi, he doesn't always understand Kohei, or himself, but he will stay by his side regardless. That moment in the stairs was probably my favourite so far. I'm expecting this show to break my heart again.

🇹🇭 I Saw You In My Dream [2/12] - It's cute. I like the premise but I've been burned by Thailand when they venture a bit into high concept so we'll see. I like the characters and the actors so far. At least there seems to be communication between the leads which for me is already a win.

🇹🇭 Knock Knock, Boys! [10/12] - Latte and Almond are great in their boyfriend era. They seem comfortable with each other without being way too cutesy which honestly would feel kinda weird for them, especially Latte. Poor Thanwa though. Look I feel for Peak. He lost his mum and so not wanting to disappoint the remaining parent is completely understandable but damn, I wish he got some nerve and spoke for himself. I really hope the boys visit will give him the support he needs to finally do what he needs to do.

🇹🇭🇨🇳 Meet You At the Blossom [6/12] - I'm watching because it's kinda historic but I'm not enjoying it as much as other people so I'll just say there are some funny bits and some cute moments.

🇯🇵 Mitsuya Sensei no Keikakutekina Ezuke [1/10] - Oh Japan how you spoil me. Chaotic boy✔ Older openly queer man✔ Food✔ Dog✔. I'm in jbl heaven.

🇹🇭Love Sea [8/12] - I'm watching.

🇹🇭My Love Mix-Up! [7/12] -I'm stopping the weekly viewing of this one and probably binge it when it's over. I probably shouldn't but I know myself and my curiosity will win in the end. I've said a couple of things what bugged me about this show and this thread started by @twig-tea and all the reblogs [@bengiyo @hallowpen @silviakundera @doublel27] are an excellent read and the reason this last episode finally made me drop my weekly viewing. It was bad before but now it makes me too angry and there's a lot airing atm, so I'm choosing joy.

🇹🇭 SunsetxVibes [6/12] - It's just fun for the most part. I'm honestly trying not to think too hard about this one because there are some things that just make no sense. Also I keep getting confused by the time on this show. The editing is weird. But like I said, I'm trying not to think about it and just enjoy the ridiculousness. Definitely more into the side couple's dynamic.

🇯🇵 Takara No Vidro [4/11] - What an excellent time it is for jqls. I'm fascinated by Takara and desperately need to know more about him and it seems I'm gonna get my wish next episode. Maybe it's the hole Hayama left in me, but for some reason I find some similarities between them. Something about people liking them on a surface level, and isolating themselves and encountering someone who sees them in a different way and being drawn to that. I also like how the show is using the episode storylines. The creep episode was interesting given that Taishin was called a creep early on, for following Takara to uni, so the contrast worked well in establishing that Taishin motivations are completely different. And then the stan episode was really interesting not only in reinforcing the idea that Taishin was really sheltered growing up but also he's so lost and confused so he's just looking for clues as to what he's feeling for Takara. 🇹🇭 This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans [4/8] . I'm watching for the sides.

🇹🇭 The Rebound [10/12] - I guess the crazy ended with a bang, or several, and now we're back to our regularly scheduled programming with a very average high school bl. Also, can we stop having sick grandmas drive the narrative?

🇹🇭 The Trainee [3/10] - I love everything about it. First of all, Jane. Look, I've loved Off since my first OffGun show, which was Theory of Love, and every character since then has only increased my devotion. Him and Mix had me weekly watching a show (The Jungle) that in normal circumstances I wouldn't waste a day one let alone 16 whole episodes. I have a problem. And I thought Ten was the ceiling honestly but Jane is just another level. Not only is he, oh so pretty in this, but his character is just perfection. He's tough but reasonably so, will give credit where it's due, notices the people around him and will apologize if he's in the wrong. And yes, that hand gesture have me fanning myself. Ryan has no business being in that company honestly, but I'm a sucker for an underdog that tries and improves and is genuinely a good human for the people around him. Oh and also, this show is funny. I'm having a great time and I'm always excited for the next episode. Please be... nope, I won't go there. It's great.

QL - Finished

🇯🇵A Man Who Defies the World of BL 3 - First of all massive thanks to @ikeoji-subs for making it possible to finally watch this season. I think this is my favourite season so far. I love Mob's and Hatano storyline and would very much like a fourth season to see what happens next. @emotionallychargedtowel wrote here and here some of the reasons why this character is so different from all the ones we've seen so far and I also speculated in the tags about how he could connect to the mangaka and that's why he can hear some of Mob's thoughts and see him breaking the fourth wall. Either way there's not enough information. I need more. I definitely think Mob is struggling more to keep his secondary characters status this season. I adore Ayato and Toujou. So many couples and so many tropes, I was in heaven. I still need to rewatch all of it.

🇯🇵Ossan no Pants ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! - Fansubbers are angels and deserve the world, so once again, massive thanks to @isaksbestpillow for allowing me the privilege to watch this show. And what a privilege it was. I'm gonna miss this family so much. The kindness and empathy of these characters will stay with me for a long time. I wish everyone would watch this show and I can't really find the words to talk about this show but this post by @lurkingshan explains way better than I ever could all the reasons this show is an incredible watch, as does this spoiler free pitch by @twig-tea. So do yourself a favor and go watch it. 🇹🇭 Wandee Goodday - I love Cher and Oyei.

🇹🇭 We Are - Final thoughts here.

Rose Watches OJBL

Nothing to report this month. The obvious reason being the absolutely insane number of shows in the currently watching list.

Others - Watched

BL Metamorphosis (2022) Kashimashi Meshi (2023) Second Chance (2021)

As usual my ask box is open for questions or requests. Have a wonderful week💜

[the-conversation-pod]

Finally, Some Good Fucking Food: The Marahuyo Project and Ossan no Pantsu Episode

AND WE'RE BACK!

After a longer break than we expected, we are finally back to catch up on some shows we really enjoyed this season. Come join us for a Bangers Only episode as we take a break from BL and explore the queer truth found in JP Habac and ANIMA Studios' (Gaya sa Pelikula) Marahuyo Project and Ossan no Pants ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! aka Don't Care For an Old Man's Underwear!

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome

00:01:15 - Introduction

00:08:40 - Marahuyo Project: A Queer Activist's Story

00:20:24 - Marahuyo Project: On Queerness

00:30:16 - Marahuyo Project: Our Characters

00:42:09 - Marahuyo Project: The Christina Story

00:48:52 - Marahuyo Project: Parents and Children

00:54:54 - Marahuyo Project: Final Thoughts and Ratings

00:59:48 - Ossan no Pants

01:05:18 - Ossan no Pants: Our Characters

01:26:30 - Ossan no Pants: Key Character Arcs

01:36:49 - Ossan no Pants: Furuike and That Fucking Guy

01:45:25 Ossan no Pants: Final Thoughts and Ratings

01:51:18 - Importance of Variety in Media Consumption

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Introduction

Ben 

And we're back. This week we're going to be taking a little bit of a break from BL and doing a special class pre-award season discussion of two shows we loved so much that it restored my faith in television as a genre. We're going to be discussing Marahuyo Project from ANIMA Studios and we're going to be discussing Don't Care for an Old Man's Underwear! The Japanese name is Ossan no Pantsu ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! 

Before we get into this, we're gonna do a little bit of a breakdown on our special class awards and why we often will pull them aside from our BL discussion. NiNi, would you like to offer some insight for us?

NiNi 

Sure, Ben, but first, we've got a guest. Say hi, Shan. [laughs]

Shan 

Ben just forgot that I'm a guest at this point. 

Ben 

It’s true. Shan's still here! She has not left the booth. [laughs]

Shan 

I just stay here permanently now. I have squatted in the booth. Hi people, it's Shan.

NiNi 

Always good to have you around, Shan. 

So, so we are talking a little bit outside of the BL genre this week. We are talking about our special class type programs. We have several categories of special class in our VIIB awards, but the one that we're talking about here is standout queer narrative. Those queer stories that are not technically romances, or at least go beyond the romance genre to reveal and get into some kind of queer truth that maybe romance is not best placed to delve into.

Ben 

Since Shan is here and she has watched so many dramas, [laughs] Shan, why don't you walk us through some of the things that distinguish broader sort of family- and community-oriented dramas versus, like, romcoms and romantic dramas.

Shan 

I think what makes a show a family drama, versus a romance drama that has family elements, is really what drives the story, what the focus and locust of the story is. In a romance, in a BL or a GL, a QL in general, the primary driver of the plot is a romantic relationship. In a family drama, what drives the plot is more about the relationships of a family unit. Or a drama that's more about community, like something like a Moonlight Chicken, you get community and the relationships between different community members, friendships and neighbors and things like that, being the driving force of the plot.

So when you're talking about categorization, that's really the difference. It's not that a family drama or a community-based drama cannot include romances. They very often or even usually do. It's just about really what drives the story. And in both of the dramas that we're talking about today, what drives the story is relationships that are more familial in nature or more friendship-oriented or more about how a community of people comes together.

Ben 

Something else that I think is notable in different styles of drama is what role the supporting cast has. NiNi, you've been probably the biggest fan of side characters and their roles in all the various QL we've watched. I’d like you to maybe talk a little bit about the role you feel for side characters in romance versus side characters in dramas.

NiNi 

When it comes to side characters in a romance, these people are usually the friends and family of the main couple. And they're usually deeply integrated into how these two people are coming together. Sometimes they have their own stories happening alongside that are sort of echoing the themes or maybe even opposing the themes in some really interesting ways. That's what I'm looking for when I'm thinking about side characters in a romance story. 

When you’re going outward to like family or community and talking about those stories, what you're looking for, for me anyway, is an expansion of the world. I want to know everything about this universe when I'm getting into a family drama, a community drama, a workplace drama. I want it to expand. I am a romance girl, so I like when a romantic drama focuses on the couple, and yes, you get some expansion of the world in that and an understanding of the world around them. But the couple's really the focus. I think in these wider dramas, I like understanding how these people's world operates and how they are all connected to each other inside of that world.

Ben 

I like the way you broke that down. In BL in particular, the friends are always built around their support for the core couple. Even in our award season, we award a Best Boy and Best Girl award each year. And that usually goes to one of the standout friends that supported our romantic leads. But in drama like this, I'm interested, like she said, in expanding the world, like what perils and challenges are the side characters facing that help add flavor to the core themes that we're exploring here? 

So with the two shows are gonna be talking about today, Marahuyo Project is about a young man who's a very out queer activist in his school in Manila, and after being expelled from the school is sent to a very rural town and there decides to create an LGBT club. Sorry, he uses the full acronym. LGBTQIA+ community while he's there. In our other show, Oppan for short, we're dealing with a middle-aged man kind of a grognard stuck in his way who, after a surprise encounter with a young gay man decides it's time for him to update himself and rebuild his relationship with his family and his co-workers. And it's a show fundamentally about personal growth. 

So those themes don't necessarily prioritize romance in them. And we'll get into that more as we focus on those shows. The last thing I wanna highlight before we talk about these shows, ‘cause we've been talking about it a lot, particularly with last season's complex disappointments for us, neither of these shows is in the bubble. These shows exist in a world very reminiscent of our own, and homophobia and the expectations of society at large and how queer people should conform are very much present themes in these stories.

And with that, NiNi, take us in!

NiNi 

Why is NiNi always taking us in? NiNi never knows what's happening here. [laughs]

00:08:40 - Marahuyo Project: A Queer Activist's Story

NiNi

So first up we're going to talk about the Marahuyo Project from the Philippines. Ben, what is Marahuyo Project about?

Ben 

About how that thankfully ANIMA Studios is not dead and Gaya sa Pelikula is not the last thing we're gonna see from them. JP Habac is still out there, friends, and he's still making stuff. 

Marahuyo Project is a kind of, like, a romance drama, sorta, about a young man named King. He is a queer activist at his school in Manila and he does not like the dean of his school. He ends up fussing with her and to piss her off, he ends up making out with his friend in front of her. She tries to separate them and he throws her to the ground accidentally, gets expelled for laying hands on her. And so he is sent away to the town of Marahuyo, a town very far from Manila, and he has to figure out how to exist in this community that doesn't have very much of an out queer network here. He decides to build an LGBTQIA+ organization on campus. And as with everything with these sort of stories, as soon as one person starts coming out, other people start coming out quite loudly in response, or not so loudly in other ways. This show is really fascinating because they insisted on using the entire LGBTQIA+ acronym, and they were intentional about that. 

Adrian Lindayag played King in this and he was also in The Boy Foretold by the Stars, which I forced Shan to watch. And she did not like it!

Shan 

You sure did. Forced is the right word. 

Ben

And she did not like it!

[Ben and Shan laugh]

Shan

I did not like it! But I loved Adrian. I was so excited to see him get another show, and a frankly much better written show. [laughs]

Ben 

And his friend who he kisses in the first episode is played by Tommy Alejandrino, who was the lead in The Day I Loved You, a show that I really loved. And I thought it was really special and kind of interesting that this show led in its very first episode with a kiss between two boys whose actors had played kind of femme-y characters before this. That felt really intentional.

I actually want to start with you, NiNi, because you grew up in an island community. I actually want your perspective on King being moved from the metro of Manila to an island that doesn't really have a stable power grid for all day power, and how you feel about him going from an urban center to a rural town.

NiNi 

It's so funny. I grew up in Trinidad and the southern Caribbean. Trinidad is considered a quote-unquote rich country and I grew up in the city. But I have friends who grew up in the country. My own family is from the country. My aunt used to tell stories, leaving town and going down to the country to spend time with her father's family, with her grandmother, sometimes with her cousins, and my friends now tell stories about that kind of stuff, as well. There's even a joke sometimes that if you got into trouble in town they would send you down south which is more rural. Or they would send you to live with your grandmother in Manzanilla, which is another rural area. So, there's some elements of that to the stories that I knew about the way that people grow up. And so there's a lot about Marahuyo that reminded me, not just of parts of Trinidad, but of other parts of the Caribbean that I'm familiar with and people that I know and that I'm friends with, have grown up in. 

So the whole thing about getting sent to country, it was so familiar in a lot of ways. That whole thing about not having power, or having these village politics kind of mentality about a lotta things. And ways that people can surprise you as well, because you have certain expectations of people who come from those kinds of communities and that kind of background and those kinds of situations where, you know, oh, you don't have lights, what do you know about anything? People make assumptions about people being backward or whatever, and actually no, that's not how it is. So this had a hint of familiarity to it in terms of the story. 

Also, I was glad to see it because so many Filipino stories are set in metro Manila or are set in the pretty tourist parts, not places like Marahuyo. I really enjoyed seeing that aspect of life in the Philippines. It felt very homey to me in a lot of ways. But this is one of the things that I enjoy about Filipino drama and about Filipino BL. A lot of these BLs are coming from countries that do feel familiar to me, but Filipino BL in particular has that ring of familiarity to me in a way that some of these other places don't.

Shan

NiNi, I think what you said about the assumptions people have about people who live in these more isolated places in the country or, like, on a small island, is really such an important thing that informed this story. Because King stormed onto that island with his big city attitude and he assumed that every single person he met was a hick who would never understand him. And I think one of the best parts of this story was seeing him have his eyes opened to the reality that there are queer people everywhere and there are people who can understand him everywhere and he has to be open to seeing them and connecting with them. I thought that was such an important piece of the journey that he went on as the main character of this story. I really loved the way the show peeled back those first assumptions that he had about a lot of the people he met in Marahuyo.

Ben 

It's very clear that King was sent to Marahuyo in the hopes that isolating him there digitally and physically would sort of, like, contain him. And it didn't. He seemed to adapt to his circumstances fairly quickly, even as he demanded that those circumstances [laughs] also adapt to him. I thought it was really interesting that they sent him to the mom who abandoned him essentially to hang out and live with his grandmother who's always had his back. That was probably one of the most unexpected dynamics in the whole show. I was not expecting that complex set of interactions where the grandma was so on his side that she had put a whole pride flag in his room and had dresses ready to help his friend, but the mom's still sorting her shit out.

Shan 

I loved the nuance of that, because… it can be complicated. We are shaped to some degree by our families and by the people who raised us, but we're also shaped by the world we live in. And I thought it was a cool choice to have King have an accepting and loving grandmother. His mother did not learn her fear and her bigotry from her own mother. And I think that's an interesting choice that really reflects reality.

Ben

I think what worked really well about having his grandma be so queer friendly is that when she tells him to give Marahuyo a chance, the growth arc that you mentioned is possible because he's able to receive that message from someone he trusts and respects, who he knows also trusts and respects him. I think that that sets him up to be open to learning things. ‘cause he spends the beginning of almost every episode giving us a small lesson in Filipino queer history, particularly as it pertains to colonization. 

I was gonna go to NiNi for that one and see if you had thoughts about that because you've spoken at length about the diasporic experience and living under extensive colonialism.

NiNi 

I mean, how much time do we have to have this conversation?

Ben 

Probably five to eight minutes.

[all laugh]

Shan

Yeah, do your whole talk on colonialism in five minutes, NiNi.

NiNi 

Oh my god, okay, no pressure. Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons that Filipino BL in particular does speak to me because of that colonized experience. The colonized experience is so specific and so similar all over the world, no matter where you were colonized or who you were colonized by. You recognize it in people, you recognize it in the society, you recognize it in the environment. The way that the Philippines is so Catholic and Catholicism is all over this story. How Catholicism has harmed people, how people find shelter in it, how people find safety in it, it's all over this. 

And one of the things about coming from a place that was colonized is that you have this sort of weird love/hate relationship with the people and the places and the experiences of the colonizer. On the one hand, like, revolution, resistance, that's part of it. And that's part of what King is dealing with as well. Talking about the parts of history that get hidden by the colonizer because it's inconvenient to them or they wanna bury some particular truth. That's the resistance part, but also the part where people are talking about things like tradition and gentility and all that stuff that the various deans, because it's two deans—three deans, I think—in this story. And they're all talking about things like propriety and respectability. And those are things that you're fighting against every single day, where those ideas even come from is a place in yourself that you sort of recognize, but you fight against every day. The experience of being colonized does a number on your head, it does a number on your society. It is wild to experience.

One of the things that I enjoyed about this is that it did give me that kind of feeling of wanting something out of the experience that you're not even sure what it is. Like you want revolution, but you also want all the things that the colonizer told you to have. It's this bizarre feeling. 

Shan 

It’s a mindfuck.

NiNi 

Yeah, it is a mindfuck. And it's a hard thing to explain to anybody who hasn't had the experience.

00:20:24 - Marahuyo Project: On Queerness

Ben 

I wanna start moving into our character specific discussion. When King first gets to the island, he has a very weird meet cute [Shan laughs] with like the island's favorite boy who's the scion of their most beloved or most successful, whatever, family—the Soliman family—where a, like, shit ton of fish gets thrown in the air. [laughs]

Shan

There's so many fishes!

NiNi 

He literally gets showered in fish and I'm like, this is so clever. Like, as a joke, it was a very good joke. 

Shan

Very effective.

NiNi

It was a very effective joke. And as a metaphor, also extremely effective. It was so good. This is the kinda shit that JP Habac excels at.

Ben 

I knew you were gonna love that. So, right away, because King won't shut the fuck up about the fact that he's queer, he ends up finding a trans girl in his class almost immediately, who's also beefing with the local priest, who ends up going by the name of Venice. And the two of them team up and decide they're gonna start their own LGBTQIA+ organization. And Venice, was like, we added more letters? Wait, what?! [laughs] How do I say all of those? 

Shan 

I love my naive girl. She doesn't know anything.

Ben

She's so pretty. [laughs] Also, shout out to Venice for eating in, like, every scene—

Shan

Every scene!

Ben

—for eight episodes.

NiNi 

So much rambutan, I swear.

Shan 

Always eating rambutan specifically, not just eating, eating this specific island fruit. [laughs] She loves ‘em.

Ben

So, Ino's family is very beloved on this island and Ino is the first obstacle they think they have to get past to getting their organization approved. But very quickly we suss out that Ino is likely closeted. And then we confirm that he's closeted in a really interesting bit we'll get into in a bit. 

I wanted, while we're here talking about the island politics, NiNi, to talk about the reveal we get later on that Ino’s ancestor, who his family has all of this pride for, exists because he outed a queer man and then robbed him. And then the island community built a tradition around the poetry that they stole from a queer man, who they then basically drove to death.

NiNi 

Yeah. This is a comedy, by the way.

[all laugh]

NiNi 

I just had to fire that one out.

Shan 

We started with all this super serious stuff. It sounds like such a heavy show. And it is, kind of, but it doesn't feel heavy. It just deals with heavy things.

Ben 

The themes are actually heavy when you think about them, but because you've got really optimistic and energetic young people, it doesn't feel as heavy as it actually is.

NiNi 

It really doesn't. But I mean, again, this is a story of colonization. Things get stolen all the time. Your own history gets stolen from you. And you have to go back into history and find your truths. So that work of uncovering and unearthing and archiving and storytelling and passing things down from generation to generation, that is real active work that takes place every single day in a colonized place. Unlearning a lot of what the colonizer tells you about yourself. All of that is part of the colonized experience and that's what I was really gratified to see them tackling in this show. This idea that they hid the truth from you and now you have to not only go and learn the truth but tell it to as many people as possible.

Shan 

Yeah, and I think it's really meaningful that they found out this truth via a story told to them by an elder on the island who they just kind of happened upon.

Ben 

But it happened because they were doing research. They were trying to justify their organization and it was recommended to them that they show that this organization would be good for Marahuyo as it currently is, not just because some kid from Manila says they need to have this. And so the trio that had formed at that point was doing real research into the history of the town itself, and that's what eventually led them to asking this woman about this history.

Shan 

Yeah, and to tie that into the romance, which you kind of alluded to, Ben, but we haven't really talked about is, King and Ino, they start with a very antagonistic relationship. Over time we figure out this antagonism on Ino's side is because King is pulling things out of him that he's trying to suppress. He feels uncomfortable because he is a closeted queer kid and King is loudly and forcefully demanding that folks recognize his queerness and also the queerness within themselves. And so, they have an uncomfortable dynamic that starts to smooth out over time as they get to know each other and understand each other better and as Ino decides to kind of push back his fear and start helping King try to make this club happen. 

So it's in that context that they're on this research trip and they go to this elder and she sits them down and she tells them this story. And that is how Ino finds out that his whole family legacy is built on a lie and that his ancestor harmed somebody who's just like him, a gay man who did nothing wrong. All he did was profess his feelings for somebody who didn't return them. And he was destroyed over that. That is what Ino's family legacy was built on. Finding that out was just a huge moment of despair for him. And in some ways brought him and King closer together as they worked through that, and in other ways made it even harder, I think, to imagine being able to be with someone like King, who's so open and so free. It was a really beautiful moment and it was a really important moment, both in the romance and in the broader story.

NiNi

There's two things that you said there, Shan, that I actually want to pull out. The part that you said about Ino’s ancestor having harmed somebody whose only sin was expressing feelings to somebody who didn't return them. I actually, I can't remember exactly, but wasn't the story that he did return the feelings and then panicked about them, or something like that? I can't remember.

Shan

I think we don't know.

Ben 

That part is unclear.

Shan

It's a speculation. 

Ben

What we learned, based upon what is provable, that he had written poems about his unrequited love for the Soliman ancestor. And then the Soliman ancestor unintentionally—or maybe intentionally—discovered these poems. He had not been given them. I think that's a big part of this too, is that—what's his name, Nalundasan—was outed. And then the Soliman ancestor turned on him in a vile way. And that ended horribly. And—

Shan 

So we don't know if he turned on him because he was afraid, because he was suppressing his own queerness, or if he was just a garden variety, homophobic heterosexual man. We don't know.

Ben 

I think what also makes me particularly sad about that story is Nalundasan, the person that they harmed in this, had performed a role as a community and cultural leader. And had chosen to closet himself, he left descendants behind. He formed a marriage and had kids. This was just the part of his life that he was not able to express, so he expressed it in his poetry that he had kept private until it was made public. And that part is really sad too, because Ino is closeted and knows it. 

A lot of times in BL, a lot of these guys are, like, untapped sexual beings who are activated by the power of BL and product placement. In this story, most of the characters are well aware of how they feel about who they are and what's going on with them. King definitely knew who he was the whole time. His loud gay ass showed up with his mullet and was like, you can't tell me what to do. 

Shan 

His rainbow mullet.

Ben

Speaking of his mullet, I have to get this out on the podcast. I will never forgive his mother for cutting his hair while he was asleep. That was horrible and vile. And the only thing saving her from these knives is she's played by Sue Prado.

[Shan laughs]

NiNi 

No, but legit, the fact that the show lets this go really upset me. Because it was such a violation. When it happened, I gasped. And the show gave it a lot of grace and let it go and that did not sit right with my spirit, I have to say.

Ben 

I agree.

00:30:16 - Marahuyo Project: Our Characters

Ben

Ino is an interesting queer character in that when he sees King right away, he sees him almost as a threat, because Ino is trying not to draw attention to his own queerness. Like, it's clear he maybe wants to leave at some point and then deal with his shit. And he can feel that he's not going to be able to get away with that around King. He's also drawn to King because, I mean, why wouldn't he be? He's tall, he's really pretty. He wears ridiculously gay shirts. Some of them show off his midriff.

Shan 

And he's brave! He's brave in a way that—

Ben

So brave!

Shan

—-Ino wishes he was. That's the thing, right?

NiNi 

There's so much about King and King and Venice in particular that had me thinking a lot about the importance of the people who can't hide.

Ben 

Mmhmm.

NiNi

And what they mean to the community and what it means for them to be out there at the vanguard, taking all the shit and how that's almost never recognized or rewarded or anything like that. But it's so important for the ones who are like Ino, the ones who are like Archie, to see the Kings and the Venices just loud and out in front and visible and unhideable and unapologetic and what that means. And the show really made you feel that. It made you feel not just that King and Venice are brave, but also how important what they were trying to do was, what the mission for them was.

Ben 

It's also interesting too because their mission is not academic for them. King was dealing with homophobia even in Manila. Then he lands in Marahuyo and he's like, same shit different day. That man got called a slur and was like “hmph, uncreative.” And I was like, wow, they're throwing slurs around in these shows again. Finally, mask off. And I was weirdly relieved that the show was mask off about its homophobia because it's very frustrating sometimes to talk about shows where the homophobia is kind of subtle. And you have to argue with people about your interpretation, where they think you're being cruel to the show for recognizing what the show is doing. I like that that wasn't an issue here, thank you, JP Habac! 

But in terms of what Venice is dealing with and what Archie and Ino are dealing with, queerness is also not academic for them either. King is not the first other homo they've ever encountered, because we learn that Ino's father almost or temporarily left his family for a love with another man and then chose to come back to his family and stay with their mom. And his dad explains that he loves Ino's mom and wants to be her husband even if it means he cannot enjoy his attraction to men. So, Ino is dealing with, like, a double closet in his life where the whole fucking town knows about his dad steppin’ out on his mom with a man. 

We learn that Venice and Archie lost their friend.

Shan 

Should we do, Ben, a rundown of the characters? ‘Cause we haven't really done that yet.

Ben 

We probably should. Let's go down the whole cast! 

Shan 

Let's go down the list.

Ben

We've got King, our favorite gay boy with a mullet that should not have been lost. [Ben and Shan laugh] We have Ino, who's our big man on campus who gets his shit rocked. We've got Venice, everyone's favorite local trans girl. Who eats rambutan all the time.

[Ben and Shan laugh]

Shan

She loves those fucking rambutans.

Ben 

Hanging around the local priest all the time is Archie, Venice's former friend who has pulled back on his friendship with Venice because of the death of their friend, who he repeatedly deadnames over the course of the show until he finally cracks through the core of his grief.

Archie is a complex character to talk about because he is also queer in some way and suffering in his own closet. And he's choosing a path that leads him to the priesthood as a way to survive under the pressures of the homophobia he lives under. 

NiNi 

So many thoughts about that.

Shan 

Yeah, let's not, let’s not lose sight of the girls. Let's not go down the Archie Road yet. We also have—

Ben 

Lorena! Aka Lorie. Lorie is probably some kind of queer. Might be bi, might be a lesbian, might be asexual. It's very clear—

Shan 

She's figuring it out.

Ben

—she's still figuring it out by the end of the show. We are not going to label her here because she has not chosen one for herself. She is sorting through her own angst with men because of her own father's infidelity. And she's very close to her friend, Lili, who is eventually revealed to be probably intersex. And it's very clear that their friendship is extremely important to them in a way feels romantic on Lili's end, but Lorie is still sorting through. But the reveal from Lili to Lorie about this truth about her is one of my favorite moments in the whole show. 

And then there's that asshole Marco who ruins it like five minutes later. I hate that boy.

Shan 

Marco, our villain. 

Ben

I hate that boy.

Shan

He's really the most villainous character in the show. 

Ben

I hate that boy so much!

Shan

He's the worst. He's the fucking worst.

Ben

[laughs]I hate him. I hate him so much! Mmmmmm.

Shan 

This is a story that takes place on a small island, but it’s also in a school. So there are school dynamics at play here with this group and how they come together. King and Venice connect pretty much right away when he gets there because they are both visibly queer and they latch onto each other. And King is very much, as Ben said earlier, an activist. He is loud and proud and he demands respect for his existence. And he also wants to create space for other people like him, or somewhere on the queer spectrum to have pride and to be able to come out and have space, too. Venice is very classic sunshine character. That girl is so pretty and so dumb and she's just the nicest girl, just ever! [laughs] But she just doesn't really know much. She doesn't know much about queerness because she's been very isolated. So King is teaching her about what it means to be a queer activist, what some of these terms mean, what it means to try to fight for your space, ‘cause she has been in a space of insisting on living as herself, but also accepting that in some ways she would have to just be quiet and conform to get by in the school, and King doesn't find that acceptable. So they latch onto each other through that.

And then Lorie is the mayor's daughter, so she has a lot of status in the town, similar to Ino, who’s part of this family that is the big legacy family. So they both have a lot of positional power within the school and within the community, which they use over the course of the story to help with the club and helping some of these other kids who are more like outcasts. Lili is friends with Lorie and that's her social entree in the school. Archie is part of the local church and close with the priest, which gives him a kind of authority too. He's seen on the island as almost like the deputy priest.

Ben 

I have to say it, he has the authority given to an overseer.

Shan 

Exactly. That is definitely his role. He's kind of a cop. 

And Marco is just a little asshole who’s just a fucking asshole to everybody all the time. And they're all in school together, they're in this forced proximity and King and his arrival to the island really awakens in a lot of these kids who are queer but have been suppressing it, who are closeted either knowing or not, he really awakens in them this kind of connection to their own queerness. And they have varying responses to that. Some of them really joyfully wanting to come and be part of what he's building. Some of them being really afraid of it. We see the whole spectrum of responses there.

Ben 

I think what also really works for me in terms of how this felt particularly queer, there's two big things. First, spoiler alert, they do not get to have their club. They are not given official approval for their club, but then they go, fuck you, we don't need it anyway. And then they have their march regardless. I love that. 

The other part I like is that we have three characters who agree to out themselves in some way by trying to pursue the organization that they want to have. You get King, who's like, “I'm gay. You can use whatever slurs you want. They apply.” You got Venice, who's chosen to stay optimistic despite the death of Christina. And then you've got Lorie, who's like, you guys suck. I have way more fun with these guys. I'm going over there with them. And then each of them ends up holding the confidence of someone else who is closeted that they're close to.

King is developing a romance with Ino, Venice is holding the confidence of Archie, who does not come out over the course of this show. He's still closeted in the end and cheering for them from the closet. Something that I really appreciate the show doing. There are still people in our communities who do not feel safe enough to come out. And Lorie is holding Lili's confidence about her truth about being intersex. And I like that those three did not betray that confidence to each other. I thought that was a really important thing that the show did because when you are protecting someone who's closeted, the best way to do that is to shut the fuck up. You don't even tell people who could be trusted with that info because it's not your info to share.

That's the big point about protecting closeted people, is, if they're gonna come out, they need to feel like it's something that they have control over. What's so evil about Marco is he went out of his way to take that moment from Lili because she embarrassed him because he wouldn't stop sexually harassing Lorie.

NiNi 

Yeah, I do like that you get three different takes on that whole, I guess you could call it end game, of the closet because you've got Archie who stays in, you've got Ino who comes out, and then you've got Lili who gets outed. And then you get to see how each of those things impact the characters. I found that to be really, really interesting to watch.

00:42:09 - Marahuyo Project: The Christina Story

Shan 

We should talk more, we've been alluding to it, but we should fully elaborate on the backstory with Archie and Venice because it is, I think, one of the most touching stories that this show told. 

So Archie and Venice and their friend Christina grew up together. They have been best friends since childhood. We don't get every detail, but what we do learn over time is that Christina, like Venice, was trans and somewhere in her transition and in her coming out, something went very badly for her and she ended up, presumably, ending her own life. This created very different responses in Archie and in Venice. Venice kind of carried on, she's a very optimistic person at heart and she carried on that way, kept Christina's memory close, and continued to live in her truth as a trans woman and carry that forward. Archie became so deeply afraid of queerness and the way that it could damage somebody's life that he locked up tight, and as a result of that, rejected Venice and her transition. 

When the story begins, he seems like—on the surface—just this hateful bigot. He's constantly deadnaming Venice and Christina. He is disapproving of Venice. He doesn't support her. And then you find out more about this history that they share together. And you find out more about what motivates him and how ultimately at the root of it he really is just so terrified for Venice that she will end up like Christina. And he thinks, wrongly of course, that preventing her from transitioning is going to save her life. And that is what is driving his behavior. What a nuanced story to tell about what is normally reduced to something so simple and hateful.

The emotions between Archie and Venice are so complex. And Venice, because she's a very kind and generous person, she has a lot of space for Archie. She understands why he's behaving the way he is, and she gives him a lot of grace around it. And she really tries to support him. Like, he is so afraid and doing so much to suppress his own queerness that it's manifesting physically for him. We see throughout the show he's got this anxiety habit of scratching at his neck. It gets gross, like, to the point where he's basically scratching—

Ben

It was gross. 

Shan

—his skin off. 

Ben 

If you have any phobias or squicks around people self harming because they've been scratching at themselves too much. You're gonna want to maybe be ready to look away when they show the back of Archie's neck—

Shan

Yeah, be prepared.

Ben

—because he's legit tearing his own body apart. They manifest how deeply he's tearing himself apart in the way he's scratching up his neck. It's really uncomfortable to watch.

Shan 

It is. And so Venice sees that, and she has a lot of sympathy for him. She understands why he's behaving in this way. And she doesn't tell anybody else. That's their private personal history. And she doesn't think it's hers to tell. It's just a really nuanced look at how these fears and anxieties and how suppression of your own queerness can manifest in these different forms of self-harm and harm to others. I just, I found it to be such a beautiful and touching story that didn't get all the way resolved by the end of the show, because you don't just fix something this deep overnight.

NiNi 

I think that the colonized thing adds another layer to this as well because the place that Archie is running towards, running away from himself, is the church. That's the colonial ramification. That's the idea that respectability will save you. That comes from the colonizer. All of that stuff is on top of all this other stuff that's happening with Archie. It's something that I recognize from people that I know, people that I grew up with, people who grew up in the Catholic Church, definitely, but also in other traditions that are imported traditions, that are colonizer traditions. This idea that if you are part of the establishment, if you are part of what they value, if you are somehow involved in that stuff, then you're safe. These ideas are not uncommon to even uncolonized societies, but there's a whole different layer and level of it that you get in colonized societies or societies that were colonized.

I don't even know if I can accurately describe how it works, but just know that there's layers to this shit. And one of those layers is Archie trying to disappear into the Catholic Church.

Ben 

My favorite thing about Archie, too, was despite how awful he seemed at first, they gave us signs early on that there was more going on here. There was the way that Venice didn't sneer at Archie. She mostly looked annoyed and disappointed. Like, it was clear that they had a relationship. And there was a moment when an adult stormed in on their party and Venice was in a dress. Archie, from the shadows, reaches out to her back and tries to pull her back from being seen because he's worried that something might happen to her. And I'm like, never mind. I know where the story is going! And I was way less worried about Archie. 

By the time we get the reveal about what happened to Christina, Archie is the one who is seemingly the most visibly devastated by this loss. So, all of his cruelty towards them was given context for me that doesn't make it okay, but humanizes it. This is not the best way to cope with this, because shoving your other friend into a closet is not going to help her either. But I understand that this is how you're trying to cope. It's not helping you, either. But I understand you.

00:48:52 - Marahuyo Project: Parents and Children

Ben

So, on a lighter note! [laughs] Since we've talked about a lot of sad things here.

Shan 

Here we go! This is a comedy. Let's remember. [laughs]

NiNi 

I was just about to say.

Ben 

On a lighter note, one of the most absolutely fantastic things about this show was the way that they had Adrian constantly breaking the fourth wall to look at us and kiki with us as the audience.

Shan 

Yes! Whenever King would look at us, I would get so thrilled. [laughs] And he was always pulling the best faces.  [laughs] 

Ben 

Adrian is really funny. Adrian, I don't think you'll ever hear us because we're a tiny little podcast, but we loved your work, sir. I loved your work and all three things I've seen you do. It was great. We love you. Thank you for the gift of King and the gift of Dominic.

Shan 

Do you have a favorite fourth wall break? Mine was when [laughs] he looked at the camera when Ino was talking to him by the water and was like, “oh my god, he loves me.”

Ben 

Yeah, that was the one for me!

[Ben and Shan laugh]

Shan 

I love that kid so much.

Ben 

I liked the little march they did at the end. I don’t think the mom deserved to be there. And I don't know about Ino's dad deserving to be there, but grandma deserved to be there and I'm glad she was there. I liked seeing them all walk together because it's a cool visual, even if I think it's not wholly earned by some of the time that they had available. 

Let's talk about Ino's mom. Ino's mom clocks very quickly when she starts seeing him hang around King that clearly he's gay, too. And she's like, what the fuck? What are you gonna do to our family? And he pushes back on that because he was ready for that particular fight. I was really proud that for a kid who they've been grooming to speak in front of crowds and talk about stuff, he was able to hold his ground against his mom. And I was really frustrated with his dad. I did not think his dad gave him any useful perspective or advice at all. And that was a real failure.

Shan 

That man was useless.

NiNi

I actually found the dad to be really sad. I think the dad was included almost as a cautionary tale? Because the dad just seemed so beaten down by his whole life, by everything that had happened to him, by all the choices that he had made. Yes, he's trying to make it so that his son doesn't have to make the same choices that he made once he realizes what's going on. Because the other thing is that he definitely buries his head in sand a little bit about Ino because of his own background and his own history.

Ben 

I think that's the only way to read him. 

Shan 

He definitely was.

Ben

I don't think we got really great answers about Judy, King's mom either, about why she left.

Shan

That was one of the disappointments for me. I really loved the show. I didn't think it was perfect. It had a couple areas where I think it could have been stronger and one of the primary ones was on Judy. I really wanted to understand her better because we know her mother, we know that she wasn't raised to be this way. So bigoted, so afraid. And I don't really feel like we ended the show understanding better why she left King. Why she treated him the way that she did. I just, I wanted to get a little bit deeper down into what was going on with her. And I just don't think we ever got there. 

NiNi 

Well, maybe the show didn't get there, but I got it. I know so many Judys. She left the country, went to the big city, fell in love with this man. I don't know what happened with her and the husband, but whatever it is, plus the whole thing with King, she didn't know how to deal with it. She ran straight home to the arms of something simpler and more familiar. It has nothing to do with the way that she was raised. It has everything to do with that, like, colonized mentality. Her life went to shit and it was because she didn't do the things that in her mind she was supposed to. Because I guarantee that she rebelled against her own mother, not just in running away to Manila, but also I am sure her mother's such a free spirit, she's definitely straight-laced, I'm telling you. It's a story that I've seen so many times. 

I agree that it wasn't on screen, but for me it was a shortcut. Like, I saw Judy, I saw the grandmother, I was like immediately I got it.

Shan 

Yeah, I appreciate that. I definitely needed the show to actually go there, [laughs] especially because like, this is a woman who abandoned her child and I wanted to understand why. And I wanted to understand the way that she chose to interact with him even after he came to live with her. And they just never dug into it. That was a bit of a disappointment for me.

Ben 

Big fan of this show never showing us King's dad, fuck that dude.

Shan 

Yeah, we didn't need to see him. I don't care about that.

Ben 

I also want to talk about… one of my favorite things was despite having limited connectivity on the island, King did not lose touch with his bestie in Manila, who called that man out on his shit every single time he got her on the phone. [laughs] It's very important when you're gay and extra that you have somebody who tells you when you're doin’ too much.

NiNi 

You do need a get a grip friend. And she was definitely the get a grip friend. It's one of the things that JP Habac likes to do, because he did the same thing with Vlad and his friend Sue in GSP [Gaya sa Pelikula]. She was not there, but she was his get a grip friend. She's the one who called him out on, like, sad dancing to The 1975.

I love a get grip friend, my favorite type of character.

00:54:54 - Marahuyo Project: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

My last positive comment about this show—I'm lying, I probably have hundreds more—[Shan laughs] is this show wore its politics on its sleeves, but in a way that didn't feel preachy. There's a really great moment where King is pushing back on a lesson they're having about fucking Machiavelli's The Prince. Oh my! [exhale sound] I went to an all male Catholic school, I have strong thoughts about [laughs] Machiavelli. 

I love King reminding people in that whole stupid argument that no social progress has ever been made by people being very polite to the powers that be. Every form of welfare and the social safety net that we all expect and rely upon, people fought and bled for. And I liked that there was not really a response to that. Are there any social services that you rely upon and expect? People died for that. So shut the fuck up. 

Great work. A+.

NiNi

And there's some little things that I want to really pick up the show on. The whole Balagtasan tradition, the debate in verse, it was so beautiful. I really enjoyed listening to the debate on a musical level, almost. And while we're talking about music again, this is from the people who did Gaya sa Pelikula. So of course the music was gonna be bangin’.

Ben 

This soundtrack, this soundtrack fucks!

Shan

Let me actually get the name of the song because holy shit, one of my favorite songs that I have ever heard in a drama. Let me pull it up.

NiNi 

Which one are we talking about? Di Inakala or Magpatuloy?

Shan 

My favorite song in this drama, so beautiful, it's called Di Inakala by Paul Pablo. Gorgeous.

Ben

It really is.

Shan

It was used in the romance arc. 

NiNi 

It's fabulous.

Shan

What was the one you really liked, NiNi?

NiNi 

I like, there's a song called Magpatuloy by Mijon and that song, I listen to literally every day now, every single day. One of the things I always love—

Shan

Beautiful.

NiNi

—about this team, about JP Habac, and he works with music supervisor Patricia Lasaten, they always pull out Filipino artists and songs in Filipino language front and center when they're doing music for their shows and I love it. I've learned about so many great artists and gotten into so much great music because of this team.

Ben 

We're gonna have to move on ‘cause now I'm gonna start talking about the consent part of their first kiss and how great that was. The show's great! Please go watch it.

Let's finally rate this show. Let's go around the board. Shan, rating?

Shan 

I gave this show a 9. I loved it. I think it's beautiful. I think it is required viewing for anybody who cares about queer drama, good community drama, good Filipino drama. There's just so many reasons to watch it. It has a bit of rough edges around some of the storytelling decisions. I don't think it's a perfect show, but it is beautiful and I intend to rewatch it and I hope everybody listening to this will watch it if you haven't already.

Ben 

NiNi, rating?

NiNi 

I also give this a 9 because I do agree that the things around King's mom sort of hung there. I don't think they necessarily had to be resolved, but they weren't really even addressed very much. So that would be why I dinged it, but it is a fantastic show.

Ben 

My public rating for this show is a 10. I do think it's one of those shows that anybody should watch. And if you are one of the listeners who likes what I have to say about things and is curious about how I think about stuff, it's one of those shows that I beg people to watch. It's one of those shows that you show people: here’s a short list of shows to watch to understand me as a person.

I think everybody should watch it. I agree with you both. Not a perfect show. Has some rough edges, but in terms of me recommending it to people, I'm givin’ it a 10. Top of the list. Go watch this. Right now.

NiNi 

So two nines and a ten, okay, I'm not mathing today. We're gonna give it a 9.5 from The Conversation.

Shan 

Feels right.

Ben 

I think a 9.5 from us is correct. It is an incredibly good show with a couple of quibbles we have about mostly the way they handled some of the adult storylines. But I think the youth storylines are crystal clear and really well-executed. And we get to see a side of queerness that we very rarely see. It’s a beautiful show. Please watch it.

00:59:48 - Ossan no Pants

NiNi 

Let's move on now to the next show that we're going to talk about, and it is called—let me see if I can get this correct…Ossan no Pantsu ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka!…I totally butchered that. English title is Don't Care for an Old Man's Underwear!

I just started watching this today so I'm very excited to discuss what of it I have seen and I am just prepared for the spoilers that are going to come. So Ben, what is Oppan about?

Ben

About how if we give Japan 50 minutes to tell a story, they're gonna use that time well! [laughs]

Shan

So well!

Ben

Oppan is about this man named Okita Makoto, who is a kind of upper-middle manager of a printer sales company. He is very much a salaryman type who is upholding a lot of casual misogyny because this is what he is taught to do, and he believes he's filling in the role that's expected of him. He goes to work every day. He works really hard. He sacrifices everything of importance that matters to him to be present for the work. and he leaves the household matters to his wife. And it's not going that great! 

He finds himself feeling distant from his wife, distant from his daughter who doesn't seem to like him; and their family is dealing with the crisis because for whatever reason, his son—who he's never been able to feel close to—refuses to go to school and doesn't leave his room. 

One day while walking to work, he almost falls down the stairs, because he lives in a walkable community, and is saved by a young gay man who catches him. The two of them have a little bit of bonding that comes from this. A friendship begins to grow between them. And over the course of this friendship, Makoto decides that he needs to change with the times and update himself, because he recognizes that he wants to better connect to people and what he's currently doing is not working. 

And the rest of the show is about Makoto learning how to be a good friend to this young gay man who's near to graduating from veterinary school, his wife, his two children who are an adult and approaching adulthood, and his coworkers. 

This is one of the kindest shows I've ever watched. When I tell you that a show about a misogynist was one of the most empathetic things I've watched this year, I am not being funny or being ironic. This show understands how everybody responds to societal misogyny, how it shapes them, hurts them, but doesn't have to be the end of their story. This was an absolutely delightful experience. I loved every single moment I spent with this show. Holy shit. 

NiNi, before we get into Shan's impressions, because I have much I want to ask Shan about, you are three episodes in. Just give us some of your initial impressions and thoughts on how you're feeling about the characters, and some of the stories you've encountered so far.

NiNi

The only reason that this show works is because Okita loves his family. He really truly loves his family, and he doesn't want to lose them, and he knows that they're slipping away from him. And there are so many ways that that kind of story turns negative. In this instance, the show uses that love and that fear of losing his family, and turns it in a positive direction. He turns it in on himself and says to himself, “What can I do to not let this happen? How can I bring them back to me? What have I been doing wrong and what can I now start to try to do right?” And that's really what stuck with me. 

We don't talk about this a lot in the world. I know this is a weird segue. Life is extremely hard on middle-aged men in the modern age, because they were told a certain way to be that has just, to their minds, vanished. They were told they were the main character and that everybody was around them to make sure that they succeeded. And that's gone, and they don't know how to deal with that. Watching a middle-aged man deal with that in a healthy way, in a way that looks at himself and says ‘I have to do better,’ I find incredibly satisfying. That spirit of, ‘I need to look at my life, look at my choices’ basically and ‘I need to fix the relationships in my life because I have broken them.’

01:05:18 - Ossan no Pants: Our Characters

Shan

I think we need to start with a little character cheat sheet.

Ben

Let's first name the Okita family members.

Shan

Makoto is our patriarch, as NiNi just so eloquently said, is the heart of this show, his journey. We have in his family, his wife Mika, his daughter Moe, and his son Kakeru. That’s our core family that we will keep coming back to. 

Our other main character is Igarashi Daichi, and he is the young gay man who lives in the neighborhood who meets Makoto and kind of starts the journey that he's on. Daichi also has parents who are relevant to the story. Mihoko is his mother and his dad, we will just be referring to as ‘That Asshole.’ 

Ben

—Fuck that dude! Ho ho!

Shan

Fuck that dude. We don't need to give him a name. 

Daichi also has a boyfriend who, in what I considered a bit of a revelation for this show, actually matters and has a story. Madoka is his name. He's very important. We'll talk about him. 

We also have a broad constellation of side characters in this show. I will not name them all because there are far too many, but a few that I think are really important to know because they have important plot lines or are part of important plot lines for our family are Hasegawa, who is a schoolmate of Kakeru's who is on the baseball team; and Shizuka, who is a schoolmate of Kakeru's who bonds with him over a shared interest. And then we have Furuike, who is Makoto's senior at work. Those folks all have pretty important actual arcs in the show. 

There are also other side characters who are Makoto's coworkers, Kakeru's schoolmates, and Moe's friends, but they're not as present in the narrative.

Good luck to our translator for having to do all those names. [Ben laughs] That's me, why am I, I'm giving myself luck!

It's a big cast. This is an ensemble show. It's a family drama. It is rooted within a family as the central unit of the story, and then we follow each of these family members on their own individual storylines that intersect with some of the other characters that we talked about.

Like, in terms of my overall feeling about this show, I just fucking love it. It is one of the best family dramas I've ever seen. It is one of the most thoughtful and smart shows that I have seen in the way that it takes the themes that it wants to explore and it really digs deep into them in a way that still feels really natural. Like, this show is absolutely intended to be educational television for a broad audience. And it also is just a really good drama that does not feel, usually, like an afterschool special. It feels like a very organic and natural story of a family and the people around them, rather than a show that's just sitting you down and preaching at you all the time, despite the fact that it is literally preaching at you a lot through the story and through its themes. 

You know, I think NiNi's summary of, kind of, the core plot of the story and the purpose of the story was spot on. This is really rooted in Makoto's journey to do better, to recognize that he has damaged his own relationships with his inability to change and evolve with the times, that he is the one who needs to do some thinking and some learning. And I think what's so beautiful about this show is that he is able to do that through the kindness and the compassion of a stranger who sees potential in him, who sees an opportunity to engage him and to help him learn, rather than just dismissing him. 

You really need both sides of that equation to make this work. You need somebody who is willing to admit that they're wrong and be open to learning. And you need someone who is willing to have patience for them and to see the good intentions behind some of their mistakes. And that's what you really get in Makoto and Daichi. They are the unconventional friendship that really powers this show, that gives Makoto the energy he needs and the knowledge he needs to do better by his family. And then in turn gives Daichi the support he needs when his life starts getting a little bit messier. 

One of my favorite things about this show is that when it starts, you kinda get a little niggling in the back of your head, you're a little worried. You're like, is Daichi a manic pixie dream gay? Is he just here to be this fairy who blesses Makoto and helps him be better and is used as this font of wisdom? Or is he going to be a full human and a real person? And it's definitely the latter. 

As the story goes on, we get his life filled in too. We learn about his struggles. We learn about his relationship. We learn about his family. We see him make mistakes, and we see him need to draw on strength from Makoto. This friendship becomes very mutual, and they change each other's lives. This is an all-time great drama. I love it. Everyone needs to watch it.

Ben

NiNi, I want to check in with you about Daichi at episode three, because you just got through the sequence where they went to the public bath together, and Makoto was trying to show Daichi some appreciation. And it was well intentioned, but kind of annoying. And Daichi got legitimately irritated in that moment and very politely told Makoto to step back.

I want to know how you feel about Daichi coming out of the sequences that happened in the public bath,

NiNi

I think the timing and pacing of that is actually perfect because I was just getting to the point in the story, having watched two and a half episodes of Daichi having what seemed like unending patience for Makoto and his foibles and his crass, sometimes crude expressions and the way that he is often unthinking before he says something. I was just getting to the point of being, does this kid not have any feelings or does he just exist to be Makoto's conscience and sounding board? 

And then that moment in the tub happened and I was like, okay, so he does get pissed off. And he does get annoyed and he does get exhausted and he does get tired of having to deal with this shit.

Ben

Daichi joins a very short list of characters who are now my all-time favorites. He and Shiro are gonna live in my psyche for the rest of my life.

Daichi is so fascinating because he's a well-read, self-actualized queer character who has the full support of his mother, who has clearly dealt with a lot of homophobia. And we learned that he suffered in high school when he was outed. But he has chosen to proceed through the world with kindness and not assume the worst from people, because it burns you out. We get to experience Daichi's complicated romance with his closeted boyfriend. 

And then the relationship he forms with Kakeru. Daichi is helping Kakeru because Kakeru might be going through some sort of queer awakening. He wants to have control over his gender presentation and he likes to be cute. He wants to be pretty. He wants to use feminine styling and cutesy girly things, because they make him happy. But he is not certain yet where he sits on the spectrum of sexuality. The big thing he hates the most is people projecting and presuming about him.

Shan

They really made a contrast here because Moe, Kakeru’s sister. She is so schlubby. She's like hair tossed up in a headband, unshowered, wearing, like, shapeless sweats. Just like looking like, you know, she didn't even bother with anything in the morning besides rolling out of bed. But then when she has to go out in the world and she does her hair and puts on makeup, she looks like a different person. The first time they showed Moe outside of the house all done up, I was literally like, who is that? Who the fuck is this girl? Why are we following her? It really took me a second to click in and realize that was Moe.

What I liked about the contrast there is that Kakeru, for him being pretty, coming on with these feminine styles, doing his makeup every day, that is what actually makes him happy. So he looks that way even when he's sitting in his own home. For Moe, that's not part of her self identity so much as part of the armor that she puts on in the world. They didn't comment on it at all in the show, but the visual contrast was there the whole time between these two siblings.

Ben

I love so much that Daichi was able to help Kakeru get himself out of that room by never telling him what to do, by always focusing on asking Kakeru questions to help Kakeru find the answer in himself. He often did the same with Makoto as well. He very gently corrected presumptions. 

Like, he—Makoto asked a reasonable question. “My son likes to dress up like a girl. Is he trans, and what do I do about that?” And Daichi is like, “Well, he hasn't said he's trans, so let's not presume there, but let's think about trans people for a moment.” And I really love the way that that was handled because Kakeru tells us plainly that he does like being a boy, but he wants to be pretty.

There's the bit where Kakeru is leaving and he thanks his dad for what he did, and his dad, desperate to try and say something that helps his son is like, “You survived being my son for 17 years, you can handle anything.” And I was like, Oh, buddy. [laughs] 

Man, I'm getting lost in all the characters I want to talk about. Let's go back one step and let's focus on Daichi. Daichi helps Kakeru by being gentle with him and letting him figure things out for himself, and then giving him encouragement and friendship when he needs it. And when we finally get to see Daichi's relationship with Madoka, it's complicated. He has an incredible meet-cute with the biggest man we've ever seen in a Japanese drama.

NiNi

I have seen that man! He is large!

Shan

That man is large. He's large.

NiNi, immediately: “Why did no one tell me there was a large man in this drama?”

NiNi

Ben and Shan can attest, literally I paused and I typed in the chat, “So who is this big one?” I was like, why is there a large man and nobody told me there was a large man here?

Ben

Shan is like, I feel like we failed on our strategy with needing to get her to watch this. We should have told her it was a big man. I'm just like, see, but then she would have felt like we were baiting her and she would have taken even longer to start. It's better that you discovered the large man— 

Shan

—We decided to let you discover on your own.

Ben

—You needed to discover the large man on your own as a, as a pleasant surprise.

NiNi

Listen, it was very pleasant and very surprising, because all of a sudden he was just there and he was large and I was like—

Shan

There he is. Can't miss him. He's so big.

NiNi

—these bitches, these, these bitches didn't tell me that there was a large man here—

Ben

Nope!

NiNi

—I'm disappointed in you all. I will say that much. [laughs]

Ben

Nope. We got exactly what we wanted. Because you kept watching. You like, “There's a large man. Is he going to show up again?” And then you kept watching. 

[Ben and Shan laugh]

NiNi

You…

Shan

Let's tell the people more about Madoka, Ben.

Ben

So Madoka is from a smaller community, and his family is anticipating his return home after completing his veterinary studies. He's going to take a position at a large clinic that's basically been prepared for him. He's expected to marry. And this is a huge amount of pressure on him. He doesn't want to disappoint his family and let them down because he's not shared this truth with them because he's afraid of that disappointment. 

I think for a lot of us, that was my big thing that kept me in the closet. Because my family wasn't more homophobic than like a standard Southern cosmopolitan family. But they have these ideas about who you're going to grow up to be in the life that you might be sharing with them as you get older. And when you tell them this about yourself, you are shattering whatever image of your life that they had growing up, particularly when you were able to hide what you were. 

Certain people cannot hide who they were. Daichi is one of those characters who could not hide who he was, and his peers made him suffer for it. And his father. Fuck that man. Fuck that man!

Shan

Seriously, fuck that man. We have nothing nice to say about him. Nothing!

Ben

But Daichi is being patient with Madoka, too, because he's not gonna demand like, “You have to come out so that we can be together.” He's patient with him and lets him sort through that. And the show lets that be as difficult as it needs to be. When these two eventually decide to marry, they have a stellar sequence that I will never get out of my brain. I don't wanna describe it further because you’re gonna watch this scene, NiNi, but know that the proposal sent all of the clowns into the stratosphere.

Shan

All of the clowns and all of the characters within the show as well. 

[Ben and Shan laugh]

The people inside the show reacting to it happening were perfect mirrors of all of us at home reacting to it happening. It was so good. And that's a surprising thing in and of itself, that in this family drama that was meant to be more mainstream, we actually saw two gay men decide to marry each other. Same-sex marriage is still not legal in Japan. That doesn't mean that people don't want to commit to each other in a meaningful way, and I think it was really powerful to see these characters make that choice. As the show goes on, we learn more about Daichi's family and his horrible fucking father— 

Ben

—Horrible man!

Shan

—and a fucking horrible homophobe who has made Daichi feel so isolated and small in so many ways. And we see this dynamic flip between him and Madoka, where he's been the one who's been patient and been strong while Madoka had to work out talking to his family. And then his horrible father comes back into the picture, and suddenly Daichi is the one who's having a crisis of confidence. And he doesn't know if he can commit to this life that he knows he wants because of the way that it disappoints his father, who he still has this attachment to. 

To see them get the chance to support each other through those journeys and to come out the other side of it was just such a really meaningful part of this story. And the way that it tied back to the Okita family because they have come to love Daichi. They have their own relationships with him. He's so important to them in a number of different ways. And so they get very invested in his life. We talked earlier about how in these dramas, the side characters don't exist just to power a romance, right? These are not fujoshis. That's not what's going on here— 

Ben

—Well, there is a fujoshi in the story. Like—

Shan

Although Moe does write—

Ben

—gay boys— [laughs]

Shan

Yeah, she's a mangaka. She does actually write yaoi manga, but she's not like that about Daichi and Madoka. They are real people to her. She's not looking at them as a fan girl. She's here for fictional romance only. 

So, the Okita family really cares about this couple and wants to see them happy and is so deeply emotionally invested in them that it becomes part of their family story, too. It's just a really beautiful way that Daichi's family became very connected to the Okita family, and that all of them became a bit of a surrogate family for Madoka—whose own family by the end of the story does know more about him and have accepted him—but are kind of far away. So he gets this familial support system through these other two families coming together and surrounding him and Daichi with love.

NiNi

Shan you said something there about being surprised about how they got to a wedding. I'm actually not surprised because one of the things that Ben and I have been discussing about Japanese drama when we've been discussing it lately is how there seems to be a category of Japanese drama in like the last five to ten years I’d say which is what I've been personally calling normalization drama.

Me, My Husband, and My Husband's Boyfriend. She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. Koisenu Futari. Like, there's a list of these shows, and this list is building up, of shows that are looking at, they would probably use the term 'alternative lifestyles'. But what it's about is normalizing these things because so much of what I understand about Japanese culture is about not standing out. It's about conforming. And the reason, and Ben and I have talked about this, that a lot of homophobia and stuff that comes out in Japanese dramas is more about how people are rocking the boat than necessarily about the queerness in particular sometimes. 

One of the things that I have been looking at in these normalization dramas and in terms of what Japan tends to put in front of its audiences is about saying, “Look at these people, they're just like you. Isn't it lovely? Isn't it normal? These people are like us.” So I'm not surprised that this is something that came out of Japan.

Shan

I think that's a really accurate description of what this show is trying to do and why it does fit into that pattern. As we were watching live, it wasn't clear to us as we were going how much any of these side characters or storylines was going to get real attention. And so I think, honestly, I think we were all surprised that he was a real character, that Madoka got his own storyline, that he wasn't just there to be part of Daichi's backstory. That he wasn't just there to be a complication for Daichi, but that he became a character in his own right and got a whole story. 

Like, this show really became a true ensemble piece. Makoto's at the center of it always, but this show really cared about every single character. Even the side characters. Like, the characters that you would normally expect to only kind of be in the backgrounds of scenes. Some of them really got to come to the fore for, like, limited periods of time and really shine. 

One of my favorite side characters was Hasegawa, who is a classmate of Kakeru's, who was on the baseball team with Kakeru. One of my favorite little side stories in this show is that Hasegawa, he actually is really curious about Kakeru and he cares about why he has disappeared from school, and he wants to understand him. And he really makes an effort to reach out to him. He goes to Kakeru to ask for help with skin care because he has acne, and Kakeru gives him an amazing routine, buys him a whole slew of products and gives him—

Ben

—And it starts working like right away. That man's skin cleared up in like a week!

Shan

That boy looks amazing! His skin was cleared up within a week! He went to him for skincare help because he knew that that was a way to approach Kakeru that would be acceptable to him, and then use that as an in to try to rekindle their friendship. And eventually when Kakeru was ready, and felt like he could trust him again, they did start having more mutual exchanges and rebuilt their friendship. 

I mean, listen, I can't lie. We all know I was shipping it. I know this is not real—

Ben

I did not feel bad for Makoto when he was like, “Kakeru seems to be having some very nice interactions with a boy. I mean— 

Shan

He fully, he was like, does he like that boy?

Ben

—if that's where it's gonna go, we gotta make sure he knows. It's okay, son.”

Shan

Yeah, and we kind of knew it wasn't going to go there because that's not the point of the show. This is not a romance drama, and they already had a romance storyline that they were dealing with with Daichi and Madoka. But I was kind of shipping it, because this boy was such a nice boy. I really liked the way that this show made room for that. That one of the things that I think stands out the most about this show is how much empathy it has for all of its characters. Even the shitty dad. 

This show has some empathy for him. We don't like him, but the show has space to understand his perspective. All of these side characters, the show really cares about giving space to who they are and revealing through context that they also have the chance if they're willing to take it to learn more and open their mind and be kind to others.

01:26:30 - Ossan no Pants: Key Character Arcs

Ben

I'm gonna blow through a lot of these characters to power through some of the arcs they went on. 

NiNi, you watched episode two where Moe was determined to go to Comica to sell her manga to her readers. But the family was like, you're too sick. You cannot go to a public venue. And Makoto decides to step up and go sell the books for her and brings Daichi along to help. That was a really interesting episode for us to see Makoto step into Moe's passion and Moe's world and see what she values. And it's the beginning of the rebuilding of their relationship.

NiNi

The show isn't just about Makoto's relationship with Kakeru, it's about his relationship with his entire family. Because you see how disconnected he is from his family. Like, even the dog— ignores him. 

Ben

—Carlos!

NiNi

Like, there's a whole side plot about the dog ignoring him. Okay? I have a lot of thoughts about men of a certain age. We are feminists on this show, and as feminists we actually do love men and want better for them. One of the things about this show is watching a man also want better for himself. Beautiful.

Anyway, he's become so disconnected from his family because he doesn't have any kind of interiority, he has no inner life, he has no conception of self beyond what society has given him. He has no hobbies, he has no things that are interesting for him. On a day when he's at home and all the rest of his family is out or doing something that means something to them, he's sitting at home because he doesn't have anything to do. And then he eventually ends up going out and getting drunk in the park because what else does he have to do, because he has no other interest because he's never been allowed to have this internal life. 

And part of the show is about him actually doing that, and part of that story is him understanding his daughter's internal life because he's been so dismissive of what she does. She's a mangaka, she works on what we in fandom call the transformative works space.

Ben

[laughs] She's a doujin artist writing fic about her favorite characters.

Shan

I love her so much.

NiNi

She's fantastic. This is not something—yes, she makes money on it occasionally—but she does this for the love. This is a hobby for her. And he doesn't understand being so involved in something that you are not a professional at, you are an amateur in that sense of the word, but it's important to you. And what you do is important to people. It made me feel a lot of feelings about this podcast. I gotta be real with you. But anyway—

Ben

Aw, bestie!

[Shan laughs]

NiNi

It did, it really did. So him sort of stepping into her world and understanding that about her—to my mind the way that I saw it, it made him also feel a little bit sad that he doesn't have anything like that. I saw a little bit of sadness that even as he feels the joy of stepping into her world, and starting to understand his daughter a little more, and having them getting that little bit closer off of this interaction, and opening a little bit of a door for their relationship to start being repaired, I could see it raised a little bit of sadness in him as well. And I'm curious to follow that thread and see where it goes. 

One thing that I've been really interested in, I realized that Mika, the mom, actually does have a job outside of the home. When she first called from work, in my head I'm like, did we know she had a job? And the fact that when he gets home, she's always got food prepared on the table for him. He never asks about it. He never says thank you about it. It's expected that it's gonna be there. 

Ben

Good—

NiNi

He comes in at the end of the day. He never asks her about her day. He doesn't seem to have any interest. And I am waiting for him to realize. I am ready and excited to see how he starts repairing his relationships with each of these people in his family. Like he even has to repair his relationship with the dog at this point. That's how bad it's gotten.

Shan

[laughs] I'm so excited for you watching this show, NiNi. I do want to give Mika her due because she is the overlooked member of this family, she is doing so much of the invisible and emotional labor for the family. And the show does give her her due and you'll get to see all of that. It kind of builds on what you were saying about Moe and how she feels about the fandom stuff that she does. 

Like, this show really understands fandom and what it means to people. Mika, she is a mother. She does have a job that you'll learn more about. And she's also a fan. She is a fan of a K-pop group called RANDOM. That actually ends up being a really important part of who she is and a part of her story with Makoto and his journey to understand her. They really take that seriously and they really help you understand and they motivate her obsession with this K-pop group and really root you in following them as a fan has done for her in her life, and allow Makoto to understand that too. 

And when he gets there, when he finally fully clicks into what he owes to this group of K-pop idols who have given his wife something to feel joyful about is one of my favorite moments in the show.

Ben

So, Mika tells us about how she's given up a lot in her life to be the mom figure of this family. She was spiraling in a depressive state when Moe was having problems, Kakeru wouldn't leave his room, and Makoto didn't even want to talk to her about any of these big family problems. And she felt like if it had been someone else, they would have solved it already, that she had failed as a mom.

In this moment of despair, she saw an interview with the leader of RANDOM, and was really touched by the way he talked about dealing with the challenges in his life. That gave her a light out, and caring about RANDOM and the goings on with that band gave her a little light that she was able to hold on to, to hold fast, as her family dealt with these big problems that she was trying to just tackle for them.

Once she reveals all of this—as they're on the way to a concert together, by the way! 

Shan

Hell yeah!

Ben

Makoto says, “Ah, then RANDOM is the Okita family's benefactor.” I just love that man so much because that is the right response.

Shan

What a good attitude, sir! You’re doing amazing!

NiNi

What you just said just leads me to think about the scene that gives the show its name about the old man's underwear thing. Makoto has ways, of expressing yes, but also of conceiving the world through a lens that he can comprehend. The things that are incomprehensible to him. Finding a way to reframe it to himself that's comprehensible. Sometimes that's serendipitous, like the thing with the underwear. And sometimes that's considered, but him saying something like “RANDOM is the Okita family's benefactor,” that's him reframing this thing into a thing that makes sense to him that he can then use that as a way of understanding the idea that he's grappling with or that he's struggling with and I really like that.

Shan

Absolutely.

Ben

You're gonna love that moment you get there, NiNi, because you just came through the Comica stuff where Makoto, like you mentioned, has his own way of contextualizing how he appreciates what people are doing. He went through the whole Comica experience, and he appreciated how passionate everybody was, and how diligent and organized they were— 

NiNi

—And how efficient they were.

Shan

—Yes.

Ben

Yeah, that was his big thing he took away.

Shan

He saw them through a workplace lens ‘cause that's what he knows, you know?

Ben

And there's this great moment when they come out of the RANDOM concert. He lets Mika go and hang out with her other friends, because Mika ends up hanging out with Daichi's mom and another older female fan who are having fun talking about their favorite boy group. He ends up reading about RANDOM. 

When he's still hanging around, Mika wasn't expecting him to wait around for her. They're walking home together. They're talking about the band. He's like, he's read some articles. He's read about them. He's talking about the band—

Shan

—He selected a bias!

Ben

He picked a bias! He's like, “I completely understand why you like Seojun. I found that article you mentioned where he told that story. It's a beautiful, touching story. But we were watching them on the stage. Did you notice that the other member noticed when the other guy tripped and he helped cover for him?

[Shan laughs]

“I really appreciate the teamwork and determination he showed in that moment. He really touched me in that moment.” And he had his own bias coming out of the concert! [laughs]

Shan 

And then they’re out there practicing the dance moves! I can't wait for you to get to that episode.

Ben

It's so great because… Like, Daichi says it early and it kind of throws Makoto off. He's like, “I don't have any hobbies.” He's like, “Your family is your hobby. Everything you do is for the benefit of your family. That's what you're most passionate about.” 

And so we get through this whole thing where we learned that Moe is passionate about manga, it’s what she loves it’s what gets her up every day. Mika is passionate about RANDOM. It's what helps motivate her day in and day out. She gets this really great moment where she gets mad at her family for not appreciating the food she's doing, because she wanted to share a recipe that had won a contest with them. Nobody checked the fucking group chat. And everybody was up in their asses about their own shit that night. Nobody congratulated her, said anything nice about her food. And she went the fuck off on them and they all deserve that ass whooping.

We go on this long journey with these characters of understanding who they are and rebuilding their relationships with each other in a way that is so beautiful. This is great.

01:36:49 - Ossan no Pants: Furuike and That Fucking Guy

Ben

There's even in the show where an older version of Makoto shows up, like one of Makoto's seniors who has been displaced from one team because of being rude and sexually harassing women there. I don't think he was touching them inappropriately per se, but just his general demeanor was deeply offensive. 

And so he gets reassigned to their team. Makoto is able to reach through to him in a really great moment where they go and solve a major work problem together the way guys like them used to solve problems. And it's a way in for him to talk about how “That's not how the young people operate now. And your information and the way you operate is good and we should teach them. But also we got to open up to them too." What's so great is, like, Makoto is kind of an idiot. He's not mean-spirited, but he's doing irritating and annoying and harmful things to the people he cares about. 

Daichi's dad is the worst kind of bigot because he is well-read. He has heard all of the arguments. He does understand that his son is suffering, and is willfully choosing to exacerbate that dynamic because he thinks he knows what's best for his son. But it's not really for the benefit of his son. It's about power and control.

One of the things that often frustrates us when we talk about these shows, particularly Shan. Hello, Shan—is these shows often like to rush reconciliations and apologies so that we end with a moment where the whole family’s come back together through the power of love and teamwork or whatever. And Daichi's dad does not get to have that moment. He is excluded from the final triumphant moment of the series because he is too bigoted to let go of his own ego.

Shan

It was a thing of beauty to see a parent who did not deserve to be forgiven unforgiven and excused from the table.

[Ben laughs]

It is everything that I have ever wanted from a drama. I was so fucking happy, because most of the time in these shows, they just insist on pushing toward this unearned redemption that is so unsatisfying. And this show just said no, because you know what? This show has a really clear thesis. And it came through, I think, in a final speech from of all people, Furuike: You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to know everything, but you do have to care about hurting people. And you do have to try to do better. And you do have to be willing to learn and update yourself. 

And what he says in this final speech in the workplace is, “I'm older than all of you. And I have learned that going through life and all of its good and bad can really desensitize you to the things happening around you, to the experiences of others. And if you let yourself become desensitized, you will hurt other people. And if you can just try really hard to not get used to yourself, and to keep learning and to keep trying, you will do better and you will enjoy life more.” And that is really this show's thesis. 

And Daichi's father doesn't do that. He's not open to learning. He doesn't care ultimately that he's harming other people, because he thinks he's right and that's all that matters to him. And so he doesn't get forgiven. And he doesn't get to sit at the fucking family table at the end of the show and play happy families with everybody. He's not invited to the wedding. If he wants back in, he's going to have to try, and he's going to have to care. And he is going to have to put in the effort to update his thinking and make amends with his son and with the people his son loves. Until he does that, he is not welcome and he is not part of the family. 

And I just loved that the show was so firm on this. There is room for redemption for everyone, everyone deserves the chance to do better. But if you don't put in that work, you don't get to sit with us. Period.

Ben

PERIOD!

Shan

PERIOD!

Ben

[laughs] Let me tell you, NiNi, you will lose your mind when you get to this scene. I am still thinking about it. I was screaming to Twig for three hours about this scene because the Okita family is in this very fancy restaurant wearing their jackets and stuff and they start removing their jackets like fucking Care Bears revealing their stomachs and blasting this man with the hearts of everything that they love.

Shan

It was like the family Care Bear stare. Like they all pulled back their shirts and the beams came out of their chest. [laughs]

NiNi

I'm so mad at y 'all for a Care Bear stare. I haven't thought about the Care Bears in at least, at least two decades—

Ben

—30 years? [laughs]

NiNi

I can't stand y 'all ass. I can't stand y 'all ass!

Ben

Kakeru is like, “Yes, I'm wearing women's clothes.” And then Moe was like, “And I love to draw fujo art, fuck you.” And Mika's like—

Shan

—She like pulls back, she's got a t-shirt with like two people kissing on—

Ben

—she's like, “I'm old and I get to like idols too.” And then he looks over at Makoto's like, “At least you're the only normal one.” He's like, “No, I'm not. I’m the most fucking crazy person here. I love my family. I love all of these people. And I was asked to be here as the matchmaker for Daichi. And I'm going to tell you to your face that you are a bigot and an asshole.” 

He asked that man the most important question: “You are correct that the world is harsh, and that it's not going to be nice to our kids. But it doesn't matter if they're queer. They're going to be made to feel awful and bad and weird and wrong for any number of reasons, whether it be Moe loving to draw fujo art, Kakeru wanting to wear the clothes that make him feel better, or Harunishi wanting to wear his b-suke-kun to work every day.” [laughs] 

For any number of reasons these kids are going to be made to feel wrong and unhappy. And that's one of the things the show makes clear. None of the older men in this show are happy at all. Not Makoto, not Daichi's divorced dad, not Furuike when he gets assigned to their team originally, and not multiple colleagues of theirs who get downsized over the course of the show. No one is happy. 

Everyone is being asked to present and conform for the sake of others in the society and everyone is miserable as a result. And the Okita family says, “No, we're going to prioritize our happiness in this family. I'm doing these things as a parent because I love my family and I want them to be happy. I don't want them to suffer for other people and be miserable like you.” And he asked that man directly, “If the whole world is lining up to be cruel to your son, why are you trying to cut to the front of the line to get the first lick in?”

And that man had no answer for that.

Shan

Man, that was so infuriating. This was what was so challenging about fighting him, why Makoto struggled a little bit, and why Daichi really struggled, was that he wasn't an in your face, loud, screaming bigot. He would espouse his bigoted ideas in the most calm, rational matter of fact way. And it would make the other characters second guess themselves. He wasn't talking as if he was being hateful. He was talking as if he was just being the rational one in the room and the rest of them needed to come back to reality. 

That can be very disarming, trying to deal with somebody when they're presenting what they're saying to you as if they're just talking common sense and you're the one who's offbase. I liked that representation of a kind of bigotry that can feel a lot more insidious than the more in your face stuff that we often see depicted in media.

Ben 

I was really happy with it because they showed through Makoto and Furuike that they aren't trying to be mean-spirited when they interact with people these ways. They're just deeply out of touch and deeply misinformed and they were taught poorly. The worst thing about Daichi's asshole of a father is he's the people who teaches people to be like that.

01:45:25 Ossan no Pants: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

What really works with this too is, like, Kakeru can be a real bitch over the course of the show when he gets pissed off with people expecting things from him. But I really like that for all that he doesn't share interests with his father that much, in so many ways he is a lot like his dad and how he handles interactions with people. That was a really well done arc— 

Shan

And him continually recognizing that.

Ben

—that he and he starts to recognize too. Yeah.

Ben

The final scenes of the show are so earned. Makoto is like, “If the world is going to fight my kids, they're going to have to go through me!” 

Shan

Hell yeah!

Ben

—And he's flexing in the mirror. And then the kids are coming through the door of the bathroom, because it's the day of Daichi's wedding. And Moe dunks on him right away. She's like, “You're not going to get buff in three days, Dad. Move. We have things to do today.”

[Ben and Shan laugh]

Kakeru’s like, “Move.” He's like, “Don't look at me like this.” They're like, “Get out of here, Dad.” And he's like, “Oka-san, your children are bullying me!” [laughs]

Shan

It was so nice to see this family that in the beginning was so strained with each other, they would have never joked with him that way when the show started because they had no trust in him and they were tense around him all the time. And to see them come all the way to the other side of getting back to a normal dynamic where they can just make fun of their dad for being a dork. That's such a beautiful way to show that he has rebuilt that trust with his kids. They feel comfortable now to make fun of him when he's standing in front of the mirror in his dorky underwear making macho poses.

Ben

[laughs] We finally get to their wedding and Makoto is given this parental position as Daichi's stand-in father. And of course Makoto is a crying, slobbery mess at this wedding.

Shan

The way that he weeps over this relationship makes me laugh every single time. [laughs] He's just so happy for them. He's so invested.

Ben

The long and short of it is, this is a show that is super empathetic about the way internalized misogyny has done so much damage to all of us. And it wants to gently lead us down the path to learning to reconnect with the things we love and the people we love without feeling the need to enforce arbitrary norms that have only made everyone miserable.

And it earns that repeatedly in every single moment for 11 fantastic episodes.

Shan

Man, what a show.

NiNi

I look forward to watching the next eight.

Shan

I'm so excited for you to finish it, NiNi. You're gonna love it.

Ben

Alright, hot ratings. NiNi, can't rate it yet. Shan, rating.

Shan

I gave the show a 9.5. I love it deeply. I think it is excellent. I think everyone should watch it. My ratings are about execution and I think there were a couple—not really wobbles in the show—but a couple little bits that could have been smoother. There were a couple scenes that didn't quite carry off the PSAs in a way that sounded like natural dialogue.

Ben 

You're going to have to let go of that moment at the end of episode five.

Shan

I can't do it. It's sticking. [Ben and Shan laugh] There's one scene in particular that felt deeply inauthentic in the way a character— 

Ben

—You're so mean!

Shan

—I'm sorry, but it's true. In the way the character reacted to something, instead of reacting in a way that felt authentic for his character, he gave a very after-school special speech, which felt so wrong from a character perspective. It just sticks in my brain. 

And so it's not technically perfect, but it is spiritually perfect. It is emotionally perfect. I love this show so much and I want everyone to watch it. I am in the process of bullying my own family into getting a Plex media server so I can force them to watch it. I just, I think everybody should see this show.

Ben

I'm giving this show an 11.

Shan

Nice. He's just gonna make sure the average pulls it back up to 10. [laughs] Which I am fine with!

NiNi

You see, whenever, whenever Ben does this and he calls producer privilege, I just sit here and I go mm okay. Because he's always on me about it.

Shan

Okay, I see how it is.

NiNi

Okay, have your 11, sir. Have your 11.

Ben

This is one of my favorite shows of all time. We've made a lot of memes on this podcast about my repeated mentioning of What Did You Eat Yesterday? or random diatribes about how New Siwaj could make good work if he wanted to make good work. 

Shan

Oh boy.

Ben

But this is, this was probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had with TV itself in a really long time. This was the kind of really homey and welcoming drama that I have really needed to believe in TV as a medium again.

I loved watching the show and I loved talking about this show with our friends the whole way through. This is the kind of drama that I feel determined to show to people

So, it gets a 10 from me, from The Conversation.

I am desperately begging you to go watch it. And then tell us how you feel about it.

01:51:18 - Importance of Variety in Media Consumption

NiNi 

So what are the connection points between these two shows, other than the frame, obviously, which is that these are queer narratives that go outside of and beyond romance? 

Ben

I don't want to be harsh to our listeners who enjoy BL when I say this. Watching both of these shows is a real relief for me, because sometimes BL feels so detached from reality that it can feel kind of alien. I need to get a couple of queer dramas in me a year that are about the queer experience in a grounded way, or else I go insane.

I am really relieved that both of these shows came to us when they came to us. Because I need experiences like this to make BL worth it for me. These are the kinds of projects I only encounter because I'm in the BL space.

Shan 

I think what connects these shows for me is that they both really care about all of the characters involved in the story. They try to tell really full stories about a community or a family that does not just narrow down to one point that's about one person or one relationship. They really try to take a holistic look at the full world around our characters, and how all of them form relationships with each other and how the world around them informs those relationships and puts stressors on them. It's just, like, a really complete immersion in both of these shows into a place and a way of living and a way of being that can sometimes feel missing in some of the other things that we watch and discuss on here. 

It's really refreshing to watch stuff like this sometimes. I think any healthy media diet requires some variety, requires stepping out of the same formula that you are used to in the media that you consume. What really matters to me about these shows in the context of this podcast where we discuss queer works, is that it really takes queer reality very seriously. And it roots its story, both of these shows, in a very close-to-realistic version of what it would mean to hold these identities in the world that we actually live in. When we are often watching shows that are in a bubble that don't deal with those realities, it's important to dip into that every once in a while. 

And, this is not a homework assignment, either of these shows. They're beautiful dramas. They are joyful. They are fun to watch. They are touching. Just because they have heavy themes and because you learn a lot doesn't mean that they're not also incredibly entertaining shows.

NiNi

For me, what I get out of being in this particular space and shows like these. I was calculating today. I am actually in a relationship maybe about once a decade, but I am living in the world all the rest of the time. While romance for me is…not exactly an escape—there are escapist elements to romance for me. I find a lot of fascination in different aspects of romance. I live in the world all of the time. And so getting into shows that are in the world, that are focused on things that I have much more of a day-to-day connection to than romance. Occasionally it's just fun to sit there. It's good and enjoyable and it feels good inside to sit in. You feel a little bit of coming home about it. And that's where I'm sitting with these two shows so far. Every so often I do need to watch something that isn't a romance, and I like when it's good.

These two are really good. 

Ben 

I gotta say that, too. Like, no disrespect to a lot of the work that we talk about on this podcast. We watch a lot of shows that are flawed in one way or another. And it's not for a lack of effort from the people making them. But every now and then, it's really helpful to watch a really, really good show or a really fucking good movie, and be like, damn, that was something else. It can be really inspiring and it can help keep you grounded.

You need to balance your media diet. You have got to not just watch romance. It will overly flavor your taste, and you're not gonna notice when the creators are playing with things outside of romance. You got to...expand your horizons, because the more types of stories you encounter, the more you'll be able to enjoy the stories that you love the most. It's good for you to watch something other than BL.

NiNi 

And with that, that is going to wrap us up on episode one of our fall season. Dun-da-da-dun!

Shan

Wow.

Ben 

I'm really glad we're starting on a high note because BOY was summer rough! Ha ha! Shit!

NiNi

I just want to point out we just at the end of the summer had our 50th episode. So this is our 51st and this is our 8th season. We are rounding out into almost two years of doing this show. We're going to have some thoughts about that as we wind down.

With that, we out. Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Bye, people.

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

[avorbl]

Don’t Care for an Old Man’s Underwear!/Ossan no Pants ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! Episode 8 Subs by isaksbestpillow

[bengiyo]

Don't Care for an Old Man's Underwear Ep 10 Stray Thoughts

This watch made possible thanks to @isaksbestpillow.

Last time, Hasegawa had the baseball team talk to Kakeru about why he felt uncomfortable with them. Over a series of conversations, the guys came to a better understanding about how their behavior made others uncomfortable, and realized that sometimes those behaviors make them uncomfortable too. On top of that, we got to see the baseball team mingle with Kakeru's girl friends. Elsewhere, Moe asked Makoto to go with Mika to the concert. Mika shared with Makoto that when she was in a dark place, RANDOM gave her something fun as a mental break and helped her make it through. Makoto listened closely and came to the fantastic analysis that RANDOM is the Okita family's benefactor. He had a great time at the concert with Mika, let her hang out with her fellow fans after the concert, did some research on his new bias, and then finally shared his research with Mika. They had a fantastic night, and met their kids on the way home. They invited Daichi and Madoka to hang out with them, and then Madoka proposed to Daichi in front of the Okita family. They later went to tell Daichi's mom and it was beautiful. I cried. We left at the family waiting to hear from Madoka, who went home to tell his family.

Oh no. Mihoko is definitely talking to Daichi's dad.

The costuming here feels intentional. Daichi and Makoto have come so far together that it feels like they're on the same page with their clothes looking so similar in color scheme.

Also, Makoto has become such a better listener. He can respond in compassionate ways to Daichi now that is supported by the earnestness he's always had.

I just love how thoughtful Makoto has become.

Kakeru looks so much more relaxed these days. He's having big youth moments.

Aw, Makoto was trying on the makeup trivia, and they dunked on my man.

Madoka succeeded!!! 🎉

Is Daichi's dad back to be homophobic? Sir, do you realize you are in the penultimate episode of the improving yourself and unlearning toxic masculinity show?

I am mad. I like Makoto slowing down to think about how best to support Daichi here.

I am with the makeup rival that they may be unintentionally encouraging Shizuka to change herself for her romantic interests.

Sir, your intellectualized homophobia is not cute.

I remain a fan of Haranishi.

Mika is such a good mom. I love the way she listens to Kakeru and gets him to the emotional core of his feelings. I also like that she doesn't disguise that some things aren't easy.

I will never forget Daichi. It's so rare that the characters can tell you how their own internalized homophobia cripples them in front of their relatives.

Yes, Kakeru! Tell him to meddle!

Well well well, Kakeru, look at you taking your own advice.

Wow, this man has gone too far. Do not talk to someone else's kid this way.

Yes, Makoto. Please go kick this man's ass.

This is such a difficult episode. There really is nothing you can say to someone to remove the infection of internalized homophobia. It's so upsetting because we learn shame at home. That's what this man put into his son. He is so rude, and I need him to have his ass handed to him pronto.

This was such a great episode reflecting on where we all fit into the society. I keep thinking about the scene about the colleague of theirs who got downsized. We contort ourselves to fit in only to be discarded when we're no longer useful, and then we lose our spouses.

I'm looking forward to the conclusion of this show, but I know I will miss it so dearly.

[mikuni14]

Ossan no Pantsu ga Nan Datte Ii Janai ka! - Ep 1-10

This series is gold.

after the first episode, I didn't give any favors to Makoto, because for me there is no excuse for being a dick due to "being old" or "it was like that in the past and that's how I was raised". And what surprised me about the series - is that Makoto says it HIMSELF in next episodes! That you have to try to be better, that you have to educate yourself, that you have to update yourself! And he does it, he even buys the books lol 10/10 for that alone ❤️

each character has its own story, INCLUDING MOM - the most frequently ignored character type in TV series

each character solves their problems partly on their own, partly with the help of others. No one is led by the hand like a child, but no one struggles with problems alone. At the same time, there is respect for the characters' intelligence combined with the fact that it is not wrong to ask for help

characters develop and mature logically, at their own pace, not everything always goes according to plan

they apologize. When Makoto messes up, he never makes it about himself and doesn't back down from his update, and I expected him to give up or get discouraged at least several times.

I like the naturalness of this series, the fact that these people look ordinary and live in ordinary houses (the kitchen in the Okita house is so homely with the furniture, each from a different set, lots of things piling up, stuff everywhere ^^)

Makoto doesn't become perfect overnight, he still struggles. when he thinks he's ok now, he does something stupid (not out of malice, but ignorance), it's so real when peple hurt someone close to them unintentionally

this older employee also admits that he cannot find his way in the modern world and is a walking wallet for his children

LGBT stories are difficult and sometimes heavy, but treated with compassion and sensitivity

the series shows boys who like feminine things, fujoshi, or kpop fans without infantilizing them or making theam a joke, it also shows why they like such things

the series has the right dose of slice of life, humor, but also emotions, often deep and difficult

the series also clearly shows that being a parent is, on the one hand, difficult, but on the other… quite easy and is measured by your child's smile :) When Makoto thinks he's doing the right thing and is protecting his family, that he is a proper, by the book parent, (but he really focuses on what HE thinks is best and maintaining the IMAGE of a perfect family), his children don't like him, they withdraw into themselves and literally lock themselves in their rooms. When he focuses on them, on their needs, when he accepts them, opens up to them without prejudice, when he does not care about appearances and external family image, his children smile at him, leave the solitary room to the common space, spend time with him, they achieve their little successes. This is clearly visible in two scenes: when Makoto goes to the festival with his son dressed in a girl's kimono, they are at ease, talking, Kakeru is smiling. The second scene is when we watch Daichi's father kill the smile on Kakeru's face with every seemingly nice word.

the series clearly shows that the role of a parent is to uplift their children, giving them capital for the future in the form of strength and self-confidence given by the parents' unconditional support. That molding children in your own way and insisting that it is only about the child's good WITHOUT ACCEPTING THEM as they are, mentally and often physically, locks them and their potential in their childhood's room.

I absolutely love the final scene from episode 10, when Daichi "wakes up" from his confusion and discouragement, seeing how his father treats another boy, which outrages him (and as his son, he didn't see that he treated him the same way, he was blind to see it, which is so, SO REAL), Kakeru giving in to these words because he doesn't want to be a burden to anyone, and Makoto going furious that someone dared to kill the smile on his child's face that he fought so hard for ❤️

This series is truly amazing and I highly recommend it to everyone. You can find it here, subbed by @isaksbestpillow for which I cannot thank enough!

[mynameisnotthepoint]

Ossan no pantsu EP 6

Disclaimer: I had already watched this drama with subs that were mostly machine translated, so this is less of a first time reaction and more of an "i finally have the whole picture now". This will contain spoilers, so be warned!

As always: thank you to @isaksbestpillow for continuing to provide us with excellent subs to this drama!!

Quotes

"They tried to look like they were having a blast. But I don't think they did it for you. Daichi-san did it for Madoka-san, Madoka-san did it for Daichi-san." (Moe to Makoto, translation by isaksbestpillow)

"You finish university, desperately look for a job and when you finally achieve your dream[,] your parents get ill and you have to take over the shop. You say you want to take the job since you got hired, so your parents say: 'The company doesn't expect anything from a mere woman.' It was that kind of time. However, now you can do what you like, so you must not stop looking for what you want to do. I only know my parents' shop and my part-time job, but I do housework. I like cooking and I am good at it. I don't like cleaning. Maintaining relationships with the neighbors is hard. Sorting waste is such a bother. But when I think it's a job that only takes three minutes, I feel pathetic for not being able to do it. We're a family but everyone has their own schedule, so I'm not saying we should eat dinner together every day. But when you take it for granted that you can come to the table whenever you feel like it, I don't like it." (Mika to Moe and Makoto, translation by isaksbestpillow)

My long jumbled thoughts/recap

Carlos is me after that first scene, which was basically a repetition of the last scene of episode 5.

Mika and Makoto are basically wearing the same colors (blue and orange) but in reverse, with Mika having much more blue on her than Makoto orange. This really reflects how considerate they are of each other at this point: Mika apologizes to her friend on behalf of her husband, while he isn't even helping with cleaning up after the party that he derailed. (Makoto's shirt has a little dog on it tho!!)

"I'm not interested in real-life romance," Moe says (translation by isaksbestpillow). She will draw the wildest fanart and wants her ship to be together forever, but she doesn't want that for herself. And yet she isn't repulsed by people in real-life being (cute) together. I love her so so much, she deserves the world. Also, I agree with @bengiyo's interpretation that she had this conversation with her dad in the upstairs hallway so Kakeru could hear it too.

I dislike this man with all my heart. He is despicable with how he treats his juniors, especially women. Also the way he talks about his wife *shudders*. He is the kind of person you want to write completely off, to ignore and yet you will always encounter them. And Shimura-san is so strong: she serves him, NOT because she is scared, but because she finds him so beneath her that he's not even worth arguing with. Makoto is more bumbling and likeable, but in the beginning he truly warranted the same treatment. I truly like how Furuike is used as a sort of mirror, or even a magnifying glass for Makoto: because of witnessing an even worse man in the same environment, does he realise truly how much he fucked up.

I love Kakeru's outfits, and this is one of my favourites. I also love that he isn't the only male person there! In old fashion cupcake, there were always ONLY women in the spaces the two mains visited, which is a tad unrealistic.

I also noticed he does wear different shades of nailpolish and his make-up and hairstyles differ too, although he does seem to have his preferences. It doesn't look professional, which is normal, he is still learning!

Mika is so proud of her lunchboxes. They look so so good. She is a part-timer and she takes pride in her work. This is contrasted immediately with Moe canceling her part-time job at the bookshop because of her period cramps (very valid!) but Moe frames it like it's OK because it's "just" a part-time job. She sees it as not as important/serious as a full-time job.

As an aside, it resonates so much with me, Moe thinking you have to endure the menstrual cramps once you start working full-time. It's what I thought too... and still I go to work, with the caveat that I also work part-time, and thus don't have to go in every single day.

Mika tries to give her daughter some advice, and see Mika's smile leave her eyes after Moe tells her that her advice is not really from experience (and thus a bit hollow). But Mika swallows the jab at her authority/respectability, and keeps on smiling. When she puts the food she happily cooked in front of Kakeru's door, and then knocks on Moe's door for dinner and Moe answers she'd rather not right now, you see her smile slowly slipping away. Anger and sadness replace it.

My heart breaks for her. She keeps this family together, told them she wanted to talk about something and sent a picture of food. She hints and hints at it "how is the chicken?", "It's delicious even when cold". And yet no-one picks up on it. Her hopes are on Moe, but Moe is in pain and too absorbed with her own problems - Mika doesn't even expect much of Makoto. Yet her husband talking about how Moe is a girl and can take it easy on the job hunt, finally cracks the tension that has been building up. I included her whole monologue in the quote section, because I felt like it was so poignant. This is a self-actualised woman, who wanted to work in publishing but had to go home to her parents. She had to give up on her dream, found a new thing she excels at, cooking. And yet, because she is a homemaker (as expected of her by society), her prowess in the kitchen goes unnoticed at home, while at work she is lauded with an award. The "I'm not saying we should eat dinner together every day. But when you take it for granted that you can come to the table whenever you feel like it, I don't like it" hit me so hard. She does so much and gets nothing in return. Dejected, she retreats to the room she shares with her oblivious husband, and watches videos of the idols she adores, getting lost in their world, where hard work gets rewarded.

The scene between Moe and Mika in the parents' room truly brought me to tears every time I watched it. I, like Moe, have probably said things that inadvertedly hurt my mother. I, like Moe, have also disregarded my mom's advice. Moe and Mika are the closest, so it feels earned that Moe is the one to deliver the praise. And finally, Mika's forced/barely there smile becomes more real again. That hug between them was WONDERFUL.

Makoto acknowledging the thing he left up to superstition - his repair of the tanuki statue curing his daughter - was actually solved through hard work and decision making from Mika. As @twig-tea pointed out, this makes her the hero of the story, not Makoto! It fucking hurts that Makoto only realises years later what his wife has endured and continues to endure for the sake of the family. Daichi said in EP 1 that Makoto's hobby was his family, for Mika the family is her work, her life work.

Makoto, Moe and Kakeru getting the tickets of Mika's favourite idol group for her is also what finally unites them and gets them to have dinner together. Her hesitation is heartbreaking, and will be in the next episode. But I love this first instance of the family being a unit in the series.

I agree 100%, Makoto. Daichi and Madoka are indeed precious. @bengiyo and @twig-tea have both written very good posts/thoughts about the scene Makoto has with Madoka and Daichi (I also really like the way twig-tea describes Carlos as an "almost [...] non-verbal narrator").

I know this post is already super long (these keep getting longer), but this episode truly made me think of my mom. She, in many ways, is just like Mika. She works part-time (80%), does and has done most of the house work as well as the cooking, keeps up with everyone's schedules etc. After watchin this episode for the first time, I talked about it with her. She also escapes, but she does into fantasy/sci-fi middle grade and YA novels, which have clear heroes and villains and also end happily, are a nice pace to read and have huge series she can get lost in. She has been reading e-books ever since I renewed her library card. I feel like I owe her so much and live at home, yet can't help her completely because she has her set ways of doing things and I can't always just disrupt them. But I do side-eye my stepfather for not helping out more, too. Having a full-time job does not give you the power to just do the odd jobs around the house that you wish to do.

[jjsanguine]

I know the whole concept of the show is that he's too old and out of touch to know but okita was playing a very dangerous game opening any package addressed to Moe lmao

[wen-kexing-apologist]

WKA Recaps QL 2024: Favorite Characters

Thanks for the tag @my-rose-tinted-glasses and thank you to @abstractelysium for the prompts! Since I have watched 60 QL (or adjacent) shows this year, I am going to keep this specifically to my favorite characters of the queer shows that came out this year, and exclude older shows that I watched this year. (Which is for the best because it would just be Namgoong all the way down). 

So here are my Top Ten in no Particular Order:

Akafuji Yuchiro- I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama 

I love me a little freak. 

This boy is such a loser idiot boy and I appreciate how unapologetic he is in his unrepentant, overflowing love for Aoyagi Hajime. I love that one of the barriers between him and Aoyagi getting together is that Aoyagi thinks that Akafuji is cold and detached simply because Akafuji is trying so fucking hard not to McFreaking Lose It over the fact he’s working with Aoyagi. And I mentioned this in another post before, but I think one of the most important things we got from Akafuji is his ability to set clear boundaries between fandom and reality. He can love Aoyagi as his fan, but he knows he needs to stop considering himself Aoyagi’s fan the second he realizes his feelings have moved into something deeper. 

Kasuga- She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat 

This is kind of unfair because I love all the women in this show. But Kasuga will hold the special place in my heart for standing up to her father and choosing herself and her found family over societal expectations and demands of the patriarchy. This feels especially important in a character like Kasuga who is so quiet, reserved, and relatively passive. We have seen other places where she hasn’t spoken up for herself, even in settings with people she loves and trusts (like when she wanted to go strawberry picking) and it is huge for her to actually make the choices she makes as they relate to her bio family. And I also think that it doesn’t feel like character growth that comes out of nowhere either, because she has been engaging in acts of resistance since the moment we meet her. As a child she was not allowed to eat as much as she wanted, but she allowed herself to eat as much as she wanted when she became an adult. Sure, it’s more a quiet act of rebellion, but I love it as an indication that Kasuga has always been strong, despite her more reserved nature.

Go Yeong- Love in the Big City

THIS IS MY FUCKING GUY! It is incredibly important to me and not only important but downright vital that I read this book before I watched the show. I remember discussing during book club that in the first couple chapters I was really struggling with Young as a character. Mostly because I had intense insight into his inner thoughts that I would not and did not get when watching the show. I knew, or at least sincerely hoped, that by the end of the book I would love Young as a character, and I was correct. And it was really important to me to see a performance of Go Yeong that would honor the book character, and I do sincerely believe that Nam Yoon So did just that. I do believe that Go Yeong appeared like I would expect Young from the book to have appeared had I not been inside his head. I really appreciated seeing his growth as a person throughout both the book and the show, and he will stick with me for quite some time. 

Cha Yeo Woon- Love for Love’s Sake

Another show where I love almost all of the main characters in it. But I want to talk about Cha Yeo Woon who cannot hate anyone as much as he hates himself. The -100 floating over his head was a major fucking blow, and I just love how readily he falls in to loving Myung Ha once he starts to have a little bit more faith in himself and the people around him. When that boy smiled for the first time the entire world got brighter. He is such a great character, and one of my favorites, because everything that character does and is and everything Cha Joo Wan gives to breathe life into that character means you can absolutely understand why Myung Ha goes through hell to save Yeo Woon. 

Wei Qian- Unknown

This man has been through so much, he has lost so much, he has gained so much, and he has fought tooth and nail for everything and everyone he loves. He is such a good character, desperately trying to hold his family together, as much as it sucks for him I do appreciate that we got a character with a chronic illness/chronic pain. It feels so rare when characters have been through shit that there are actually serious physical consequences for the abuse they have gone through. And again, a major reason why he is one of my favorite characters this year comes down to the absolutely killer performance from Chris Chu. 

Venice Barros- Marahuyo Project 

VENICE!!! WE GOT A TRANS GIRL IN A SHOW THIS YEAR!!!!!! AND SHE IS BEAUTIFUL AND OUTSPOKEN AND SO SO SO FUCKING EMPATHETIC TOWARDS PEOPLE SHE LOVES WHO HAVE HURT HER BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED AND GRIEVING AND TRYING DESPERATELY TO CLUTCH TO THE ONLY THINGS THEY FEEL WILL PROTECT THEM. God I love her, and her incessant rambutan eating, so fucking much, I am so glad that she exists and I am so glad she has people like King and Lorena and Lili and yes even Archie in her life, and I am even more glad that they (and Archie especially) have people like her in theirs.

If you have not gotten around to watching Marahuyo Project please take this as a sign to do so. 

Makoto- No One Cares for an Old Man’s Underwear

DAD OF THE YEAR! I loved watching his growth arc, knowing how much he loves his family and how that love is what really causes him to start re-evaluating his worldview. Yet again there are so many incredible characters in here that I will carry in my heart as favorites. But I think Makoto especially deserves a shout out because he is still allowed to fuck up sometimes, and he’s still allowed to learn, and despite the fact that sometimes he stumbles and falls and ruins things, he makes me cry because he is devastated to have hurt the people that he loves, and he doesn’t give up. That is so goddamn important in a character like him. It would be so easy for him to hit his first roadblock and to simply throw up his hands in defeat and decide that it was all too hard and instead he just keeps trying and trying until he’s found his way back to his family, to friends, to a love and connection that he has not had with people in a very long time (or possibly ever). 

Shiba Ryoma- Love is Like a Poison

I cannot express how important it feels to me to have a character like Ryo, who is so serious and generally reserved have a queer awakening and just immediately lean in to it. He does not run from the idea of intimacy, and he does not back down in his love and support for Haruto. Which was such a refreshing surprise. This is a man who has until this point valued his career and his ability to win cases above pretty much everything else in his life. And it really felt like a moment of triumph for me to see him stand in front of his boss and be like “this is my boyfriend,” and to be faced with a choice between his career and his lover and to choose his lover. I’m glad Haruto and Ryo have each other and I am glad that his coworker has another queer person in the office (though I kind of suspect that he clocked Ryo before Ryo clocked himself). Also, he is responsible for one of my favorite scenes of the year. Squaring up only to immediately get his ass beat into the ground because why the hell would he know how to fight? Also, he is the plant dad of all time.

Lee Doe Hoe- Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo

Doe Hoe is such a good example of what the behavior of an abused child looks like. He is a really interesting and complex character that I appreciate having in my life. I kinda loved that despite how good he is at taekwondo he doesn’t fight with people. The great tragedy of not understanding why people would want to hit each other because he has grown up being physically abused by his father. I really liked (from a narrative perspective) that he was an incredibly successful student and that he continuously failed the college entrance exam, the way he falls as a student because of the anger and sadness and guilt that he carries for calling the police that day. This man is fucking frustrating in so many ways and yet I completely understand why he is the way he is and, similarly to Kasuga, I really appreciate the where and how he bucks convention and stands up for himself. He does not care about the optics around the way he handles himself at his father’s funeral, he does not grieve that man, so why should he pretend to appease the judgement of others? I’m really glad that having Ju Yeong back in his life gives him the inspiration he needs to try again to go to college, and while we do not get to know the results I truly believe that he will finally succeed. 

Sin Ju Yeong- Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo 

Y’all know I love myself a happy!sad and there are few people who so strongly represent the things I love about a happy!sad as much a Ju Yeong. That boy has been through so fucking much, and he hides a lot of his pain behind what I do believe is a genuine love and joy for life. But I think that joy for life, and the desire to spread joy to Dohoe really manifests in the recognition he has of himself in Dohoe’s sadness, and the knowledge that there are things he can do to help change that. I love Ju Yeong because he does not back down, he still carries shame around his sexuality (I see you cross necklace) but he will stand up for himself and he will not shy away from intimacy and desire. From a narrative perspective I love that that mask of brightness he had that was so blinding and attractive to Dohoe when they were kids is shattered when he loses Dohoe. Who we see when he’s in college and when he’s working a job is who he really is, and I love how much Dohoe tries to twist the knife in Ju Yeong by pretending like Ju Yeong wasn’t as lost and alone and hurting as he was just because he would make himself smile. I love how much of Ju Yeong’s character makes sense because his entire life has just been abandonment after abandonment from people that he loves and cares for. That he takes punishment to spare Dohoe, that he does not let Dohoe push him away when they reunite as adults, that he tolerates a lot more of the nasty shit that Dohoe tries to say to and about him because he cares and he knows that Dohoe scares. I love that Dohoe’s hatred of violence is what causes Ju Yeong to lose his control and kiss Dohoe for the first time, and that it is violence that Ju Yeong resorts to both to protect Dohoe and then later to help Dohoe set himself free by trashing the dojo.

tagging @bengiyo, @shortpplfedup, @solitaryandwandering, and @emotionallychargedtowel, @happypotato48

[starryalpacasstuff]

Just caught up with the first three episodes of Smells Like Green Spirit (mainly thanks to this post by @lurkingshan) and ufffff this show is really speaking to me. Shan, I've watched several bls thanks to your passionate recommendations but seriously, I cannot thank you enough for posting about this.

Obviously, this show is quite dark and from what I could see from the preview for the next episode, it's only going to get darker (I knew there was something up with the way that teacher was looking at Mishima, this actor is really good) but the bully storyline of this show is seriously speaking to me on spiritual levels. It's mostly a vibe that I have no idea how to convey in words, but I'm going to try. It gives me a feeling similar to vindictive pleasure; one of Mishima's bullies discovering that they(?)'re like Mishima too and the other potentially being gay too. I've never been bullied, but I have wished crisis-inducing gay awakenings on several homophobic friends, and this show is definitely giving me some of that feeling.

I'm going to make a really odd comparison here, so bear with me, alright? I've almost finished Oppan, another japanese not-a-bl with vastly different themes and vibes, but one thing I'd like to point out is that something the show does quite well is queer wish fulfillment. A previously narrow-minded father deciding to change his way of thinking because he realizes it's pushing him away from his children is yet another thing I've fervently wished. So while the bully storyline is quite obviously very different from Makoto's redemption, I think it's rather interesting that both made me feel very similar emotions that I can't quite put into words—some mix of vindication and melancholy.

[twig-tea]

Oppan ep10: 1 for 10!! But at what cost?

I made it through an episode of Oppan without crying, but it was only because I spent the episode in a rage (NGL Makoto's text almost got me, but then he didn't send it so I was spared).

This episode has the dubious honour of being so well written that I wanted to do do physical damage to my television by punching it. Daichi's father is an infuriating character, framing all of his condescending and shortsighted takes as care. Of course, this is what people think and how parents react to their children's sexuality (or any social deviancy, as we see with his response to Kakeru) all the time. Daichi not having the defenses for this because deep down he had imagined his estranged father accepting him is so painful that I can't cry about it, but it hurts.

I really loved that Daichi didn't have the perfect rejoinder for once in this episode, and that Madoka could not fulfil for him the role that he fills for Madoka. Neither of them expected to be in the position where Madoka would give Daichi advice on handling a disappointed parent, and their floundering feels natural.

I also really loved Kakeru realizing that his frustration at his own hesitancy is why he was so annoyed at his father for not doing more. Every time either of them realizes there are similarities between them, it warms my heart. His reaction to his friend being taken advantage of and deciding he can't change her mind but he can change himself so that he is never tempted to take advantage of anyone in the same way was really heartwarming. All men should learn to cook basic things for themselves so that they don't rely on a woman, get with it feminists.

Makoto's hesitation this episode was good; this feels like a natural evolution of everything he's learned. He's learned when to be silent and when to speak up, but there are all kinds of shades of grey in there that he is now levelled up enough to tackle.

It was so smart to have Daichi's dad say something mean to Kakeru, because this has radicalized both Daichi and Makoto, and given Makoto a reason to be firm with Daichi's father.

I really do not want this series to end; I could watch this family struggle along and get a little closer and a little better at loving one another every week. Once again huge thanks to Siiri for subbing this series and putting it on our radars, I wouldn't have heard of it without her and this show has changed my brain chemistry; I will never be the same. Thank you, @isaksbestpillow! Head over to their tumblr and grab these subs and give this show a try, I promise you won't regret watching this show, and if you binge now you may be able to watch the finale when she finishes the last episode!

[lurkingshan]

Japanese QL Corner

It's raining jql! Hang onto your butts because this is a jam-packed post. We now have three shows airing weekly on Gaga, plus several fan subbers making our dreams come true. What a time to be alive.

Takara's Treasure

I love them, your honor. This show is from the same directing and screenwriting team as Our Dining Table, so it should come as no surprise that the characters immediately endeared themselves to me. Taishin is a lonely boy still mourning the death of his beloved pet bird and latching on to the senior who was kind to him in his low moment. Takara is a reserved tsundere who seems a bit taken aback by this weird kid who followed him to university, but Taishin's sincerity and gentleness is working on him already. It doesn't hurt that Taishin is not faking his interest in the things Takara loves, that boy is an amateur botanist. This one is going to be so much fun, and almost certainly make me cry. Can't wait!

I Hear the Sunspot

These two already own my heart. I loved that we took the time to get to know Kohei better at this early stage and understand how isolated and excluded he has felt since he began experiencing hearing loss. He needed someone loud and straightforward and unapologetic like Taichi to barrel into his life and pull him back out of his shell again. I was so relieved when Taichi confronted him immediately about his avoidance and cleared up the idea that he only wants to see him when he's being fed. The joy I felt seeing Kohei laugh and finally relax and play a simple game of basketball with his peers was immense. I could gaze at his smiling face all day.

Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko

Holy shit, I love this show! We begin our story with a makeover, and it only gets better from there. Adapted from a manga, this is an age gap office romance between an experienced lesbian and the purportedly straight junior who is in love with her. Hiroko is everyone's favorite boss at work, but she keeps her private life separate, so her colleagues have no idea she spends her nights at the local lesbian bar or that before work got so busy, she was a consummate party girl. Ayaka fell for her after an act of kindness, and she is on a mission to get Hiroko to take her seriously, but her perceived straightness is getting in the way. Shenanigans ensue! This show is charming as hell and so genuinely funny, and Hiroko is an instant fav.

Bonus: Ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka

Episode 9 has is now available on @isaksbestpillow's blog, and besties, Daichi and Madoka are getting married!!! The way I lost my entire shit when this happened, you have no idea. I was carrying on so much I had @bengiyo worried something terrible happened, but THE VERY BEST THING HAPPENED.

Ahem. This was another fantastic episode! Makoto accompanied Mika to the Random show, where he developed his very own bias and a newfound respect for the power of kpop. Mika got to share the story of how her fandom saved her in a low moment, Moe and Makoto had a heart to heart about her lack of desire for romantic partnership and the expectations he should let go of, and the entire family is getting along so much better than we could have dreamed a few short months ago. And just as the fam was headed out for parfaits, Daichi appeared and expressed his own desire for a family, Madoka took the hint from the universe and proposed, and we all collectively held our breath and cried and cheered when Daichi said yes. What a fantastic show, I really cannot believe this drama exists.

Bonus: Zettai BL 3

And to complete this week's fan subs, @ikeoji-subs has begun posting A Man Who Defies the World of BL 3. Head here to find the latest, and if this is the first you're hearing of this series, mosey over to Gaga or Viki to watch parts 1 and 2 first! The episodes will be dropping over the next week or so, and I will share more complete thoughts about the season once they're out!

[my-rose-tinted-glasses]

My memory is terrible so I wanted to do a breakdown of my stuff every once in a while. Might be monthly, might be whenever I feel like it. And also. Spoilers and opinions below, read at your own risk.

QL - Currently Watching

🇯🇵I Hear the Sunspot [1/12] - I'm so grateful that I get a new jbl just as I'm mourning the end of the last one. I didn't read this manga but I've watched the film, and I really liked it even if it felt unfinished. Hopefully with 12 episodes it means we get the full story. This was a very good first episode, I feel like we established the main relationships dynamics and got a good insight into the main characters core. Taichi is my new child.

🇹🇭 Knock Knock, Boys! [6/12] - I continue to enjoy this group. Jane turned out to be a great addition instead of what I feared, but Peak really needs to step up so I can keep rooting for him and Thanwa, cause I'm also not a huge fan of the ex coming back as an obstacle for the couple. Latte and Almond are really great together and I'm curious how Almond will deal with his feelings for Latte, when he actually realizes he's having them.

🇹🇭Love Sea [4/12] - Before anything else, I love the ocean and I love when shows get out of the city. Also I like Mut. Now. I'm not a Mame hater. I'm a 'trauma is the only way to write deep characters' hater. I'm also a 'trauma gives you an excuse to be an asshole' hater. But most of all, I'm very much a 'love will fix you' hater. So just don't give me 3 out of 3 and it's fine. Also this last episode, all the talk about money and contracts made me feel some kind of way, although it doesn't seem to bother Mut so... And as much I like having Aya on my screen, Mook is really testing that line between cute and incredibly annoying. I'm not sure how long I'm staying with this one.

🇹🇭My Love Mix-Up! [4/12] - So... this is not good. The technical aspects of this are actually bad. Considering the number of sponsors is actually kinda incredible that it's so badly put together. The sound, the lighting, the editing, overall just... not good. Now, the rest. Look I don't want to ruin anybody's fun, so I'll keep watching this one quietly, unless something outrageous happens. But for the record, and this is all I'm gonna say, they are ruining the best parts of these characters and this story, and even if I ignore that (which I can't because it's an adaptation), it's pandering and it's a lazy attempt at recapturing the magic of msp, with a worse script and recycled material. Also I cannot believe they didn't put Atom in a trashing bag.

🇹🇭 My Stand-In [1/12] - For a number of reasons I'm waiting to binge this one. I do love watching the gifs on my dash though, pretty is pretty.

🇯🇵Ossan no Pants ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! [9/11] - It's so good. I love them all. This last episode I was close to tears in several parts but the street proposal ended me. It's definitely one of those shows that I'm grateful that I get to watch even if I can't always find the words to talk about it. These characters have my whole heart. [everyone should be watching this and the wonderful @isaksbestpillow has made that possible with her subs. Here is the post with the latest episode. ]

🇹🇭SunsetxVibes [3/12] - It's ridiculous, it's fun, it's cute. Sun is such a simp. Man basically proposed before they were even dating. And yeah the way it started was not amazing, with the lying, but these two actually communicate about their expectations and what they're feeling which is better than a lot of shows right now. And I adore the sides.

🇹🇭The Rebound [2/12] - Everyone is gay and naked. And they play a sport of some kind.

🇹🇭The Trainee [1/12] - OffGun are back! I really liked the set up for this. It's only the first episode but I really like how they are walking the line between the comedy and the seriousness of the workplace. I love a good friend group so I'm looking forward to seeing how the relationships between all the interns grow. Poon is once again playing the silly brainless child of the pack but I don't care, I adore that kid for some reason. And next week we already got Gun crying so what's not to like?

🇹🇭 Wandee Goodday [10/12] - I already talked about my feelings regarding the last episode. I'm here for Oyei/Cher and Plakao. I love Inn and Great, they deliver with the chemistry but the DeeYak storyline is just a mess for me right now. I am also not looking forward to the inevitable redemption of the terrible parental figure.

🇹🇭 We Are [13/16] - The friendships are still great and mainly why I'm watching. I have a really good time watching those scenes. Only 3 episodes left and ChainPun continue to be the tinniest of crumbs. I don't expect much from this couple at this point and I'm a bit disappointed. FangTan are so cute and such good communicators. They are my favourites. QToey are cute. Now, Phum and Peem. Look PondPhuwin are really good at looking at each other like they're the only person in the universe. However. There's only so many times I can enjoy them staring at each other in slow mo. Once per episode oughta be enough I think. Hopefully now that they're actual boyfriends it gets a little less annoying.

QL - Finished

🇯🇵25 Ji, Akasaka de - What an incredible journey. I have to say it has been a while since a show surprised me this much, for the positive. For most of it I wasn't sure where it was gonna go or how it would end or who would be doing the running. The way they played with the show within a show was so well done. I loved the change in pov, which I always love in jbls, but it not only gave us the opportunity to see how Hayama's crush started but also we were allowed to see behind the mask that Hayama had been keeping up. Speaking of. I love him, one of my favourite characters of the year. And Komagine Kiita did an incredible job. I can't wait to watch him again when Tengu returns. If I had to say, the one thing I wish I had was more of Shirasaki's backstory. I wanted to understand better why his self-esteem got that bad. But that ending was great and honestly, I earned it.

🇵🇭Marahuyo Project - Well that was excellent. This show is beautiful. I want to hug them all and walk next to them. I really don't have the words for it right now so just go watch it. Because these characters are incredible and the visuals are stunning. All episodes here.

🇹🇭 Only Boo! - This is getting tiresome. Here it goes. Why? It was so great. They were the cutest shit and I had a smile on my face the entire episode. Even with the singing. It was wholesome and the mains delightful. And then... Heartbreak, time skip, no consequences, unearned happy ending. I mean Moo is a great character still, and Kang is the best boy, but I'm tired.

Rose Watches OJBL

Mood Indigo (2019) - I liked this one slightly better than the first. I think the visuals are stronger and there are some incredible shots throughout. The sex scenes are some of the best shot that I've ever seen. I love Kijima so even though I'm not always on board with prequels, it was great that we got more insight into him. Obviously we know this relationship was doomed from the start, and Kido has a lot to do with how we find Kijima in the beginning of The Novelist, but I can't help but feel for Kido. He is a mess that is struggling between the expectations that are on him (put there by others but also himself) and the affection and desire he feels for Kijima. And even without watching The Novelist there is always an air that this will not end well. For lack of a better phrase, it just wasn't meant to be. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of this series.

Dangerous Drugs of Sex (2020) - One of my first thoughts when I was watching this was 'we are using the word unhinged too freely'. Cause Ryoji has little competition on that score. This is not an easy watch. I really liked the way it was shot even if at times that meant my view was too narrow so I couldn't look anywhere else but the 'uglier' parts. In completely different ways they were both stuck in an uncomfortable (yeah that's not really the best word but I can't think of another) place and I could feel that throughout. I'm not sure about the ending but they look happy, so what do I know?

Other - Watched

There's a lot airing so I didn't watch much outside ql. I finished Under the Skin and rewatched a couple of things. My watchlist got longer and I have a bunch of shows that I'll hopefully tackle during my summer holiday in July. Speaking of...

There is a lot coming next month, so here is a post with all the shows that have been announced for July that I updated to include Meet You at the Blossom that was recently announced. New jbl starts tomorrow!!!!

As usual my ask box is open for questions or requests. Have a wonderful week💜