#oranje leewinnen

[hardtchill]

Why does Viv look so annoyed? They are winning 7-0

Well, i can only guess, so let me try.

I don't think Viv actually enjoys these games (as in games against countries like Cyprus). Yes it's a chance to score a lot and as a striker that's good, but it also shows the extreme lack of equality in the women's game.

Viv was the player who at 21 led equal pay talks for the carrots. She did that for her team and for herself, but from what i can tell about her as a person she is very much aware of what is happening in other countries. I don't think she likes playing against countries who don't get paid or barely have their costs covered.

These qualification games don't result in bonuses or a salary for the players from Cyprus, they are unpaid workers. I don't think she finds joy in playing these teams because she knows it's incredibly unfair how they are being treated.

[jackievddonk]

UHM IVE OFFICIALLY HAD THE BEST EVENING OF MY LIFE

[footballbro]

International Caps on a Team: A Comparison of the USWNT, England Lionesses and Oranje Leewinnen

9When I was reading an article on the calls ups to the latest USWNT camp I was amused by the fact that the author talked about how few players who’ve been called up to the camp have over 100 caps. This got me thinking, I thought it must be unusual for a team to have a number of players with over 100 caps, so I looked at the USWNT and 2 other teams, England and the Netherlands.

To gather this data I looked at the 2019 World Cup Squads and, in the case of England and the US, SheBelieves Cup 2020 Squads. I then discounted any goalkeepers (as they tend to have either very high or very low numbers of caps) and players who have since, to the best of my knowledge, retired.

This scatter graph shows the distribution of caps on the teams. 

The US, in yellow, have the most number of caps on a team with 294, they also have pretty clear steps in the data, it is not a smooth curve. Out of the 22 players my data takes into account, a whopping 10 of them have over 100 caps and only 4 players have under 30 caps. The mean average of the data came out as 98 caps, far higher then the other two teams I analysed.

The Netherlands, in blue, have a far smoother curve although it still has pretty clear steps in it. The most caps for the Netherlands is 178, which is their all time record, and their mean average number of caps was calculated as 62 caps. Out of the 20 players in my data, 3 had over 100 caps and 5 had under 30 caps.

England, in red, have the curve the closest resembles an exponential decay graph with a pretty smooth curve in the data points. The most number of caps on the team is 149 and the mean average was calculated to be the lowest at 48 caps. Out of the 23 players in my data, 2 players had over 100 caps and 9 players had under 30 caps. In fact, a majority of the players, 14, had less then 50 caps with a further 2 on exactly 50 caps.

So what does this tell us? It could tell us a few things, it could tell us that the US mostly keep to the same group of players, it could tell us that England like to try new talent, it could tell us that the Netherlands have a solid core of players but don’t mind rotation. To be honest the only thing it really shows is that players in the US team are more likely to rack up caps unlike they would on any other team, I would say it’s favouritism but I can’t say I know enough about the team to say for certain. 

(Credit goes to Wikipedia for squad and player information) 

[hardtchill]

Unfortunately I didn't get to watch the match today. How did the Dutchies play and what was Sarina's tactical masterplan? Did it work? Was the loss deserved? Absolutely heartbroken for them

Boy this is hard to recap because there is so much lol.

Anyway. They played really well, i don't know if it was Sarina's tactics or just Viv but her plan of not having the Americans isolate Viv 100% worked. Viv was the best player on the field from both sides, there is literally no debate possible for that one.

The first half they started pretty well although they didn't have any chances, then Viv scored a great goal out of the first real attack they had. Literally was stood between 4 defenders with her back to the goal and she turned and scored somehow? I don't know how it happened.

Then they had a massive dip, cue two American goals. Definitely some shady defending there, but also just good attacks from the US tbh. So they went into halftime 2-1 behind, not great. But, they came out swinging. They had more confidence and definitely were the better team for large parts of the 2nd half. Viv scored the 2-2, again in very little space and she somehow got the shot on goal (did i mention she was the best on the field today?).

So it's 2-2 and tbh they were still better, they are attacking and the defenders are holding up. Although they definitely had mistakes they kept it 2-2. Cue a penalty for the Dutch (omg right?). Sadly Lieke missed, it wasn't a great penalty but Alyssa was also just a beast today, she did a really good keeping that out.

So, we're going to extra time and again the Dutch are better, more dominant and the US really don't create much (aside from offside goals throughout the game actually, sorry American followers, an offside goal is not a goal, it's good defense from your opponent). No goals, but definitely chances. The 2nd half of extra time sees more chances for the US, but again no goals, both teams seem bone tired (i mean duh, 120 minute of play and it's really hot).

They got into penalties and well this was always going to be something the Dutch are not the favorites for. For one because Lieke already missed during the game, but also because they team is just not as experienced. The US scores 5 out of 5, two Dutchies miss theirs, but they have no reason to be ashamed. They played a great game and in the words of Danielle van de Donk "we were better", because overall they were (yes you can disagree with that American followers, i'm just basing this on what i saw especially in the 2nd half).

In the end the loss wasn't deserved, but also not undeserved. Either team could have won this game and it would be fair, the US won in the end and that sucks if you're a die hard Dutch fan, but for the neutral viewer this was a really fun game and a great way to promote woso.

I'm especially proud of Aniek and Lynn because omg these babies are 20 and 22 and they defended like season pro's. Yes they had mistakes, but i'm so proud of those two. Other players who did really well for the Dutch were Viv, Daan and Lineth, they really had a great game. Overall all the players and Sarina can be proud, they fought and they were so incredibly close to winning.

They will get there and with the babies on the team they have years ahead of them.

[hardtchill]

Do you think England can be a top contender? I feel like they just aren’t a top competitor for the upcoming Euros? I’m not quite sure what they’re missing but I just feel like it isn’t clicking for me. I don’t want to say it’s their work ethic but I just can’t place my finger on it… what do you think about ENG and who are you top four for the euros

For me England is in the top 4 for Euro's. Just based on their roster they should be, it's as simple as that.

Now the thing with England is that they missed a massive chunk of development time due to the mismanagement of the team. From 2013 to 2021 they didn't have a decent coach. In those 8 years Woso as a whole developed to an insane degree, but the English National team did not grow at the same rate.

Now they have a good coach who if i may add turned the Dutch into European champions in 2017 after only 7 months as the head coach and she had much less to work with then in terms of players. I'm not saying Sarina is some kind of miracle coach because she isn't, but she is the first coach since 2013 who will be truly good for this team.

For me Spain is the clear favorite to win Euro's. Sweden, England and France are the other three teams in my top 4. Closely followed by Netherlands and Germany who may show up to play or they may fail miserably.

* I know France is still being terrorized by the witch, but that roster is seriously insane. They have gotten results even while dealing with the witch so that's why they are in my top 4.

[hardtchill]

But they did really well under Sarina though. They won the euros, were finalists in the wwc, and almost beat USA in the Olympics. If the squad isn’t that impressive, then Sarina is a good coach who knows how to make the best with what she has

Yeah. that's exactly what she did. It's why i have always said that it's a disgrace that Jill Ellis got coach of the year in 2019 and not Sarina.

Sarina played the world cup basically with 15 players instead of 23 because she simply didn't have subs available who could perform on the level needed. She got a lot of criticism for it because her starters were bone tired by the time the final came around, but she had very little choice in the matter.

Like i said, they have showed some results that make no sense on paper mostly due to either Sarina, team spirit or outrageous performances of individual talent (mostly Viv in recent years).

[hardtchill]

do you know what happened to sari van veenendaal? she gained a lot of fame in 2019 after the world cup but i don't really hear much about her anymore. did her level of playing go down or is she having masterclasses at her club in the netherlands and i'm just not up to date?

Buckle in for a story, sadly not with a very happy progression.

Sari was with Arsenal in the season leading up to the world cup, before the world cup it became clear that her contract wouldn't be renewed and she would be looking for a new club. At the time she was a pretty decent goalie, usually the back up at Arsenal, but she got decent minutes.

For the Netherlands she had been battling for the #1 spot and won it right before the world cup. Now, i think we all know what happened them, she had a great world cup, got the golden glove and became goalkeeper of the year. Due to that it really wasn't that hard for her to find a new team, Atletico Madrid. This is when things start going down hill.

Sari has always been a very social person who also missed her family even when she was at Arsenal (but she had some great teammates that helped). The thing is that half way through her first season at Atletico Covid hit. They weren't playing, but more importantly for her it was very hard to be away from home during this time and she had very little contact with her teammates.

This to a great extent caused her to return to the Dutch league after just 1 season with Atletico. Once there her level just went down the toilet. We have seen this with basically all the players who have come back to the league or never went abroad. The Dutch league just isn't a quality league and partily due to that her level drastically dropped.

Along with that she also has seemed to loose a lot of confidence (which isn't that surprising seeing as she also knows she hasn't been doing well) and a huge part of commanding the back line and being a goalie is confidence.

So yeah, right now it's not looking good. She still started for the Dutch in the last game, but that's mostly because we don't have great goalies behind her and Kop is currently injured.

She is a really sweet person and i really hope she can come back from this because she can be great, right now it just isn't happening for her sadly.

[hardtchill]

Watching the replay of the Dutch-Czech Republic game and the pre-game talk with retired NT players literally said, we need to think of the future, which means younger players need to get chances. They said that right now players like Daan, Spitse, van der Gragt and van Veenendaal (basically all the players in their 30s right now) are still great, but they won’t be forever and your new players need to be ready before they go, not after.

It’s interesting how this is the mentality on the Dutch team, while in every single corner of the US fandom you hear people screaming whenever someone dares to mention that maybe a forward line with an average age of 32 isn’t the best thing in the world....

[hardtchill]

Curious on your opinion about PKs. Miedema and Kerr are obviously better at scoring goals than Pinoe but they’ve missed crucial PKs repeatedly (for Kerr not sure about VM). I don’t know what exactly I’m asking here. Lol.

Lol, that's okay, i think i understand your question.

The thing about pk's is that they are so incredibly different from goals made during the run of play. The pressure of taking a pk is way higher, the situation is completely different because you're on your own and it's not something you can truly simulate.

You can have Viv take a 100 penalties at every practice and it wouldn't have changed the outcome because nothing can recreate that kind of pressure. They can all shoot at goal that's not the problem, the real challenge is the pressure. Really the best way to truly learn how to take penalties like Pinoe is by doing it over and over again (like Pinoe does).

Viv and Sam are both world class strikers who i think could become great penalty takers, but that doesn't happen over night, most players need years to become as solid as Pinoe (and most never do).

Also would like to point out that making a penalty doesn't mean you're a great penalty taker, just like missing one doesn't make you bad at it. The goalkeeper plays a huge role in this and obviously Alyssa had a great night. Like Viv's penalty wasn't horrible, it should have been lower and maybe a bit more to the corner, but it was also just a really good safe. There is also a really big luck aspect here where Viv's penalty would have gone in against a lot of other goalkeepers. Even if she takes it again against Alyssa there is a big chance it will go in.

So yeah, missing a penalty is a combination of a lot of things and players who manage Pinoe's record are very limited. Most will in their career miss important penalties, but also make important penalties (look at Morgan and Pressi in Rio and last night). They are just normal penalty takers who don't make it their specialty and therefor sometimes miss and other times hit.

[hardtchill]

This quarter final is going to be epic or a clusterfuck

Lmao, good summary.

[hardtchill]

lol not uswnt fans being butthurt over dvd’s comments like the us isn’t cocky and obnoxious. the us loves to say that they could be the best and second best team in the world. it’s just a taste of your own medicine. face it, the us isn’t as intimidating anymore

It's part of the game people, get over it. You can't support a walking trash talk team and then get mad when other teams do it.

[hardtchill]

Thoughts on the draw?

I think Dutchies got a pretty good draw. Russia and Switzerland shouldn't be countries they struggle with (if they are on form), Sweden can go either way and having them in the group means not getting them in the first knock out round.

They also won't draw Spain or England in the first knock out round, they will either get the runner up or winner of group D (depending on if they win their group or not). So either France (if they get 2nd in the group) or probably Italy (if they get runner up).

Now France would suck, but if they are still coached by Diacre who knows what is possible, more chance than if they play Spain i think.

Anyway, group B is insane, Spain won't have it easy, definitely got the toughest draw out of the top countries. England got super lucky with their group but they play the runner up of group B (so probably Denmark or Germany), so easy group, but hard knock out round which is kinda fair.

[hardtchill]

So after four games, what do you think of Mark Parsons as NT coach?

Find it hard to really judge tbh. I don't think he has made weird decisions (well, not calling up Kaagman was a choice).

I don't think we would have seen different results under Sarina. He got a team that is too dependent on one player and has some senior members who really need to be phased out due to them just not being good enough anymore (Sari, Spitse, Van der Gragt). I hope he continues giving younger players minutes because i just don't want to have to rely on Spitse or Sari because none of the younger players are experienced.

They did what they had to do up until now (not very convincingly but still), but his job really starts now. He needs to see which younger players he wants to give priority to in the sense of getting them ready for Euro's. My picks would be Lynn (even if she is injured right now), Casparij, Kop, Bayings and Smits.

Another thing i think he needs to do is either pressure the KNVB to increase quality in the Eredivisie or tell his youngsters (like Pelova, Kop and Casparij) to get the heck out of there because they are wasting their talent in that league.

[hardtchill]

I love the USWNT but considering how they played today I do not feel like waking up hella early again to see them lose to Netherlands… like I just feel there’s zero shot they win on Friday.

I mean, i would say it's about 50/50 at this point. Wouldn't be the first time a team has a bad group stage and a good knock out round or the other way around really. More than enough teams who go 3 for 3 in the group and score a lot then go into the knock outs and completely fail.

A lot will depend on what Vlatko and Sarina decide to do. Vlatko has the way more diverse and talented roster available, Sarina seems to have the better 'team' available. Who wins depends on a lot of variables including those that the teams themselves have very little control over.

It's really not as bleak as it seems and i mean even with really bad play you can win. Just like you can loose with a really good play. The US has the better players, the Netherlands for now probably have more confidence and the better tactics, but that could shift 2 seconds into the game.

[hardtchill]

Which do you think will be a better opponent for the US in the knock outs? Looking like the Netherlands or Brazil

Hmm, tough one tbh. Both are definitely beatable opponents, but dangerous in their own ways.

I think in one way Brazil is a major advantage because the team is more familiar with Brazil's most dangerous players (specifically Marta and Debinha). However Pia also definitely knows a lot about the US, especially the front line since she was coaching the US when they all first came into the NT pool.

The Netherlands is more of an unknown even though they have played them before of course. The individual players are not as familiar seeing as very few of them have played together before (with the exception of Tobin and Christen who of course played with Jackie).

Overall Brazil and the Netherlands both lack in defensive quality right now, but i mean the US isn't exactly ripping apart defenses right now either lol. Both teams have their stars and i guess it mostly depends on who you're more comfortable in playing. Would you rather face Marta/Debinha or Miedema/Martens, personally i would rather face Marta/Debinha but that is a personal preference.

I think whoever you have to face you will end up playing a team that you cannot give too much space to. Miedema is deadly in front of goal and Martens definitely has the pace to make your defenders miserable. Debinha really only needs an inch of space before she is off and Marta has been scarily effective so far.

Whoever they end up playing the US better be prepared.

[hardtchill]

If the US put Davidson in and give her more corners and set pieces they might really have some good scoring opportunities. If they play the 'experience card' and put Dahlkemper given her recent form instead their fucked cause whoever plays at center back has to mark Vivianne Miedema.

Look, i like Tierna as much as the next person and i definitely think she has been better than Abby, but let's not pretend she is a magic solution.

Let's also not put the responsibility of guarding one of the best if not the best striker in the world on a 22 year old who half the time doesn't even get to play. You can't one on one guard Viv anyway, she is way too dynamic and versatile for that.