#one thing about be on cloud actors: the microexpressions!

[byemambo]

BAS ASAVAPATR AS KORN

4MINUTES (2024) | 1.01

Bonus: man, the cameraperson framed Bas so close to the edges of the screen T.T

[letteredlettered]

Continuing after this post, which is my list of changes CQL made from MDZS that I did not like, changes from MDZS in CQL that I liked:

I really liked that Wen Ning and Wen Qing come to the Lan Sect lectures for the opening scenes. I think establishing them early both makes for a rounder story, because this way WN and WQ don't just show up when necessary for the plot but are people in their own right from the very beginning. I love WQ in the book, and I felt that the expansion of her character for the drama was very true to her character and made me love her that much more. I also really liked the WQ/JC relationship. I really think that you could have introduced these Wen characters early on, as the drama did, without using the stupid Yin Iron plot to get there. Just have them study at Cloud Recesses and then show the archery competition.

This is pertinent to the expansion of WQ's character and also to the point I'm about to make below about Jiang Yanli's character, but I appreciated how the drama expanded the roles of these two female characters. The women in MDZS are really interesting, complex characters, and yet for some reason they are not given the page-time and attention that the much larger cast of male characters gets. I'm frustrated that the drama does not show what happened to WQ, but at least they gave her a bigger part.

I also really liked that Jiang Yanli was at the Lan Sect lectures. Honestly, I felt there wasn't enough of her in the book for her death to really have the necessary impact. What was there was beautiful--but she wasn't just very present.

In fact, in general, I feel like you can feel the relationship between WWX and the Jiang family a lot better in the drama. You can really feel how close these people are and why WWX feels such a responsibility toward them. There's just a lot more time spent showing the three of them being together rather than just telling you about it.

On that note, I think that the days WWX spends at WQ's in the drama, searching for a solution to JC's core, really helps you understand just how desperate WWX is at this point. I also think it does a really good job of showing that WWX can actually be very scholarly if he is interested, which the fact that he wrote dissertations on demonic cultivation in the book also shows. (I really hate the fanon!WWX who cannot be an intellectual even if he wants it; he only studies if he's interested is all.)

No rape, which for me was a plus

I think it was helpful that there was a lot of NHS hanging out with WWX in the drama. It really establishes his character and you do care about him. I think that if I had read the book without the drama I'd keep forgetting who NHS even was.

For me, Xiao Zhan made WWX a lot sweeter, kinder, and more serious than the book, which in general was a good thing. I don't really need WWX to be nice, but there were honestly times when I felt like he was impossible to know in the novel because he was always joking around, teasing, being smart-mouthed, being sarcastic, or if he was sincere, he was angry. And that's a very interesting thing for a character to have going on! But I really felt like the author also could not really dwell inside his head, so it's kind of bizarre to me that it feels like the actor did, in fact, do so; there are so many moments in the drama where you can see that WWX feels hurt or affectionate or regretful or upset, and you can see him decide to adopt a joking persona. And that's different than the WWX of the novel, who seems like he doesn't decide and can't actually help himself, but at least I know what CQL!WWX is thinking more of the time. (One of the best WWX parts in the novel was when he told Jin Ling he was sorry for the comment about Jin Ling's mother, because it was one of the only moments he really felt deeply sincere, no jokes.)

Similarly, I for the most part found LWJ more dimensional in the drama, for similar reasons. You can see what LWJ feels in WYB's microexpressions, but since most of the book is from WWX's pov and WWX can't read LWJ, LWJ kind of seems like a tree for large portions. Thank goodness that LXC can read him, and that once or twice, MXTX does at least show us what LWJ does when people aren't looking, even if she still doesn't jump into his head.

Anyway, in the end, the characters and relationships in the book are very strong, but so much is told rather than shown, whereas the drama really shows a lot of those characters and relationships. You would think the fact that a drama shows and a novel tells is a somewhat tautological observation, but honestly, I find that many live action adaptations of books are in fact bad at showing. It helps that the drama has 50+ episodes. Meanwhile, the parts that should be told imo in the book (such as more interiority for everyone overall) are shown in the drama. I think you can use the book to clarify lots of the plot and fill in certain character details that are left out of the drama, but you can use the drama to (for lack of a better word) really dramatize who these people are and how they felt.

I was surprised that in the end, I didn't actually feel these two stories were as vastly different as I expected. The biggest change besides the gay is, of course, the fact that the drama is unwilling to let WWX be as much of a villain as he becomes in MDZS, which is something I'll save for another post, maybe.

[uraharabyakuya]

After some time, I’m still sour about the Untamed.

This is a post to rant and convey my feelings as a firm believer of the novel, the source material. And I am also a huge fan of the audio drama and the donghua. I absolutely detest the Untamed live series. So if you’re one of the many fans of the live action, please don’t bother responding or reading this. I really do not want to argue with any of you. I just want to convey the deep sorrow and incensed indignation I feel about people putting the Untamed ahead of any of the other adaptations, especially the novel which is the source material.

After more than a year since the Untamed’s release, hordes of the drama’s fans are still hijacking comments sections of the other adaptations, even other BL franchise’s or other dramas of the actors, just to preach about the drama’s greatness.

Aside from the fact that the act of injecting and imposing praise from a series that has nothing to do with a lot of the other franchises posts these comments appear on is just plain rude; it is also highly unacceptable by right because the drama was shambolic both as a stand-alone drama and as an adaptation.

I find it really difficult to accept and concile the fact that a large scale of gaslighting seem to happen where the Untamed fans are going out in numbers to preach about how excellent that production was, even as far as to shamelessly and illogically denounce the novel itself which is the source material. How can they denounce the source material without which Untamed cannot even exist?!

I have difficulty allowing for the fact that Untamed being an adaptation and utilising the same characters and story arcs from the source material should disrespect and deface the very characters’ essence and fundamentals of the storyline. I do not want to rehash about how the Untamed WWX was better or how the Untamed Wen Qing was better or how the added fabled characters and changed plot points eg the Yin Hu Iron just existing and Lan Yi is still alive and is friends with WWX’s mother etc - are considered some upgrade. Because they all deface and destroy core essence of characters personalities and their arcs, then they are not an upgrade; even if they were executed well which in Untamed’s case, were not.

I get that the actors XZ and WYB are attractive to a lot of fans, and that whole physical attraction to things and people that are pleasing to the eye, adds a lot of brownie points and the feel good factor. But please do not confuse that superficial attraction and chemical reaction with whether the story, the production, the acting etc were actually of good quality and substance-which they were not.

If I had watched the Untamed with no prior knowledge of the novel or story, I would go in as if it were any brand new story or drama. And the Untamed would still not be able to stand up to the test. From the first 10 episodes, the production quality was a really huge distraction because of how poor quality it is. The natural sceneries may be beautiful but the make up, props, styling, costumes and special effects were all of really poor quality- Ghost General and WRH to name a few, Lan Sect forehead plastic strap that looks so out of place and random. One cannot seriously go in and seeing the horrible production quality and continue to think this is a great production and sit through 50 episodes of that. Then the characters and acting- if you didn’t know the original characters , you’d still find it really jarring and in fact really more annoying to see a WWX who is really acting like a girl to a LWJ who has the expression of either being sleepy or as if he’s dead. There’s no microexpressions in the eyes or face, there’s no person present nor personality in that character. I made a straight male friend watch the Untamed with no prior knowledge of what it’s about and he had no expectations of knowing the original characters, and he could not get past 10 episodes.

Now, if I watch it as a fan of the original story and characters: I would take huge issues with how they’ve defaced the essence of these beloved characters. There is no doubt that the Untamed was laden with so much shameless fan service and BL-fan-baiting. The novel, the audio drama, the donghua still carried through the essence and core personalities and characteristics of each of the characters. They were of certain constituencies and should not be watered down, dumbed down, hero-washed because they’re using the same characters’ names and story backgrounds and from the same universe as the novel. It’s incredibly disrespectful to make WWX not the grandmaster of demonic cultivation, not the person who had as much manly badassery and flirtatious teasing, and the sensitivity of feeling inferior in the family but possessed of great talents and his unwavering stance to defend the righteous regardless of consequences. Not to mention, his mistakes and arrogance with the demonic cultivation and the horrible consequences he then had to bear- which were all removed. LWJ as well was a layered character with self discipline and a penchant for suppressing emotions due to his childhood and the situation with his mother, and how he buries them deep which is how the novel and other adaptations showed his growth and layers when he’d silently been doing things either directly or indirectly that were a show of his emotions but just through actions. His turmoil and confusion when he fell in love, especially in the context of homosexuality in that time and universe setting, and his cultural identity from his sect and the expectations, but yet when it really counted, he was willing to sacrifice the veneer of reputation and standing and defend his love; and he was willing to mourn the loss and carry that burden of preserving WWX’s good when he took LSZ in and passed on some of WWX’s knowledge or how he still believed in WWX’s good and continued to Inquire after his soul, and want to investigate after his death. So many other characters’ stories and their personalities are changed from the original which makes it unacceptable. That’s like saying we should insist on changing people’s fundamental personalities because of some perceived opinion of what version is better, and that is even IF the subsequent proposed version is in fact better. But which like I say in Untamed’s case, is not. The WWX in Untamed was a Gary Sue who never did anything wrong, who never even did the remarkable feat of discovering demonic cultivation, and was acting like a teenage girl who was infatuated with the LWJ from high school as opposed to that cheeky, confident, borderline annoying extroverted young cultivator who had enjoyed that deference in the Jiang Clan even though he’s supposed to be the son of a servant in the novel canon. In fact in the Untamed, WWX was already practising what would be considered demonic cultivation tricks with the paper people and freezing techniques at Cloud Recesses which then just shatters any form of constructs or rules in the setting of that universe.

Basically, I am really tired of seeing Untamed fans stalking all forms of other media and leaving trails of forcing down people’s throats about how great this drama and acting is, even in places where they are not welcomed and has nothing to do with them. And when it is so excruciatingly inaccurate. It pains me to see people who may not be familiar with BL novels and franchises; MDZS canon, or other adaptations then think the Untamed is some game changer that paved the way- when it’s just a really horrible fanfic-like AU akin to 50 shades and twilight, that really butchers and takes away the epic storytelling and compelling characters and relationships a lot of BL franchises and especially the original MDZS canon bring.

[razberryyum]

The Untamed/陈情令 Rewatch, Episode 3 (spoilers for everything)

(covers some of MDZS chap 13 and erm...that’s it. They mostly go rogue for this ep*)

WangXian meter: 🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰

(a 🐰 is earned every time there is a WangXian scene or even when they’re just thinking of each other...some scenes deserve more than one 🐰...don’t worry about it, it’s not an exact science 🐰🐰🐰)

Really, bless Team CQL for transforming what was only an anecdote in the novel into one of the most beautiful scenes in the show.  The first time Wei Ying and Lan Zhan first crossed swords played out like a moonlite, rooftop ballet and it is completely breath-taking and romantic and perfect. What makes this scene even more meaningful to me now is the added sense of poignancy of knowing that they will never be able to spar like that again due to Wei Wuxian’s diminished abilities in his Mo Xuanyu form. Although, even before his rebirth they wouldn’t have been able to repeat this dance since Wei Ying's extraordinary swordsmanship had already gone away with his golden core.  It's yet another reminder of not only how much he’s lost, but also how great a sacrifice he made for Jiang Cheng. Just thinking about that is enough to make my heart ache like crazy all over again over how much Wei Ying loves his bro and how much he went through for him without JC even knowing it for such a long time.    

But back to happier thoughts, what I also loved about this scene is just how downright adorable Wei Ying was being. Actually, he really was being a total mischievous cutie during most of his time at Cloud Recesses, which makes sense since this is the Wei Wuxian that was still brimming with boyish charm and innocence as his life still hadn’t been touched by heartbreak and tragedy yet. That reminds me of another reason why I am so impressed with Xiao Zhan as an actor is because he basically had to portray three different roles in The Untamed—as the youthful, wide-eyed Wei Ying, followed by the more bitter and mature Yiling Patriarch, and then finally the carefree yet jaded Mo Xuanyu—and he performed each persona with equal aplomb while injecting noticeable differences in each phase of WWX’s life as exemplified by alterations in his posture, expressions and even the way he says his lines. I'm not familiar with what acting awards are available in China’s entertainment industry, but I hope he receives some sort of award recognition for his work. He definitely deserves some nominations at least.  

That is not to say that Wang Yibo was being a slouch either; even though I had my doubts about him initially, I do still recognize that playing a stoic character is not an easy task since he had to find creative ways to avoid falling into dullness. A good deal of microexpressing is involved that can be difficult for an unseasoned and non-professionally trained actor, but WYB definitely lived up to the challenge as the show progressed. But because WWX is the more blatantly dynamic character, one’s attention is naturally drawn to him, even I was more focused on him at first, so I ended up neglecting what was going on with WYB’s Lan Zhan. It was only after revisiting this episode that I was truly able to appreciate the subtlety of performance.  

While it’s hard to imagine anyone being able to resist Wei Ying’s charms, I do believe Lan Zhan was indeed mostly irritated by him during their initial interactions. At the same time, however, he also clearly noticed that there was more to WWX than meets the eye since he was definitely intelligent (after all, he correctly deduced, twice, what was going on with the injured cultivator Lan Zhan brought back) and he was also quite skilled since their sword fight ended at a draw. But because Lan Zhan had years of propriety instilled in him by Uncle Lan, his automatic reaction to someone who was as unruly as Wei Ying had to be instant disapproval and annoyance. The irony of that is most likely because Wei Ying was such an annoyance to Lan Zhan that he couldn’t help but constantly notice him as a result, as one would do with an eyesore, so even from the first moment they met, his attention was already captured. It’s not the most positive way to start a relationship to be sure, but obviously it worked out for the best in the long run, especially once Lan Zhan got to know Wei Ying better and that animosity turned into something more affectionate.

Big Brother Appreciation Time

There are many reasons to love big bro Lan Xichen—he is such a sweet, caring, gentle, considerate, and loving soul who is also a skilled and talented cultivator—the least of which is his intent on playing matchmaker between his little brother and WWX right from the start. I loved that he noticed something in Wei Ying immediately and realized he would be a good person for LWJ to have in his life. Bless him for being so observant and intelligent.  

Random Bits of Randomness

If Lan Qiren knew that this rude, improper kid would one day be the person to “corrupt” his beloved nephew and steal his pure, innocent heart, he probably would’ve spit up all the blood in his body and dropped dead right then and there. I will always laugh at just how offended he looked when Wei Ying dared to rest Suibian on his desk, as if he had dumped dog shit in front of him instead. 

I just wanted to commend Mian Mian’s fellow sect-mate on the left there who, even though she was not complimented on her good looks or even given a second glance by WWX, still generously talked Mian Mian into allowing the Jiangs to stay at the hotel. I thought she deserved some credit for her nice gesture.

Not having read the novel yet when I first watched this episode, I was actually shocked at the reveal that Shijie was engaged to Jin Zixuan because I would never have thought they had that relationship from this scene. I know JZX didn’t really have any intention of honoring that arranged marriage at this point in the story, but the rudeness he allowed his servant to get away with was still unbelievable. I mean, seriously what the hell, she was still his fiancee, he hadn’t broken off the engagement yet, how DARE he allow that nobody back there address Shijie and his potential future in-laws in such a rude way. The fact that he actually kicked them out of the hotel was also shocking because it felt completely unnecessary. I really didn't like JZX because of this moment and that sentiment stayed with me for quite some time. What made the scene sadder is Shijie obviously was crushing on him and for the longest time I couldn’t understand why because I thought she totally could do better AND deserved better. I can’t say that I ever learned to love JZX, but I definitely don’t dislike him anymore.

Though I’ve been pretty critical of the CGI in The Untamed for the first two episodes, I do want to point out that not all of it is horrible: I was actually impressed with how both Cloud Recesses and Nightless City looked, even though I think their design for Nightless City was rather off the mark since it no longer suited its name. Since they were going to go with the dark theme and make the Wen Sect as blatantly villainous as possible, the production team should’ve just changed Nightless City’s name to Forever Night City (“長夜城”). Personally, I would’ve preferred it more if they had just stuck with the design of the Wen sect’s residence and uniforms as they were described in the novel (which was beautifully brought to life in the donghua) since I liked how deceptively righteous the Wens seemed. In CQL, they were so obviously the bad guys that they bordered on being cartoonish, especially Wen Ruohan (portrayed by Xiu Qing). Man, his performance simply was NOT working for me AT ALL. Even his make-up was a mess...looked like it was melting off of him all the time. In contrast, I thought Wen Chao (portrayed by He Peng) was bit much at first too, but then eventually I started to appreciate the actor’s performance, especially during his last scenes where he actually made me feel bad for his character because he was so convincingly pathetic. WRH never won me over and I was really relieved when he finally died. I actually thought they gave the actor too many scenes already leading up to his death. Felt like a lot of unnecessary filler to stretch out the episodes.  

Xue Yang is absolutely evil and horrible and psychotic and a total mass murderer and villain, but dammit, as soon as he showed up, I couldn’t help but immediately take a liking to him, and it’s all the actor’s fault. I have never seen Wang Haoxuan in any other show before...then again, I think he’s only been in two other shows prior to The Untamed, both of which I haven’t watched...but much like with Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo, I think the show struck gold by casting him as Xue Yang. In addition to making his character difficult to hate, he has also made him so interesting and magnetic that I couldn’t wait to see him pop up again. I am so glad that Team CQL altered the Yi City arc so that we were introduced to Xue Yang, Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan sooner than in the novel. Not only did it allow us to become acquainted with the characters early on so that by the time Yi City rolled around, everything that happened in that arc would be even more emotionally effective because we were already invested in them, but we also got Xue Yang sooner and more often, and for that I am thankful. I already liked him before I read the novel so by the time I came across his character in the book, all I could imagine was Wang Haoxuan. He completely fit the image of Xue Yang for me. I don’t know if I would feel the same way had I read the novel first before watching the show, but I would probably still like Wang Haoxuan’s portrayal.  I know there have been criticisms that he is overacting, but for me, everything he did worked. It worked so much that I wish things had been different with his character, that Xue Yang wasn’t the monster that he is and committed all those atrocities that he did. I mean, he’s literally worse than Charles Manson. And yet, I still like him; I can’t help it, he’s just so much fun to watch. His eyes freaking sparkles. How am I supposed to resist that?? Look, there are times in a person’s life where one must make certain decisions that are undoubtedly not wise ones, but one still must stick with them because that’s the choice that was made.  Liking Xue Yang is definitely one of those decisions for me and I’ll just have to live with it.  

**I didn’t want to put this right at top since they would be unavoidable spoilers, but Shijie, Wen Qing and Wen Ning never attended the studies at Cloud Recesses. I’m really happy for that change in the drama, especially since we got to know Shijie more.  As mentioned above, the early introduction of Xue Yang and the yin metals was also a deviation from the novel.  

Questions TBD:

I had questions regarding the whole yin metal drama, but I have a feeling it’s only because I wasn’t paying close enough attention to that part of the story every time I watched these earlier episodes. I tend to zone out when we dropped in on WRH because I just find him so ridiculous and his whole set up in his fortress ridiculous too. Those zombie/ghost puppet dudes are just silly and I think it's kind of hilarious that WRH would just have his precious yin metal floating in the main hall like that for everyone to see. He has a cool throne, I’ll give him that, but otherwise, I really just can’t with him.  On this rewatch this time around though, I am going to really force myself to pay closer attention to WRH and yin metal stuff so that I can finally make sense of it all, or at least know for sure that it was never meant to make sense because they actually botched that whole storyline.

Overall Episode Rating: 8 Lil Apples out of 10