#obv rest of the year im like “i am upset about this death of a character but the stories it caused mean so much to me!”

[bluemoontarot]

Me wondering why I'm about to cry at my desk whilst reading Mollymauk death angst and fics when 99% of the year the topic doesn't bother me

Looks at the date, sees it's June 6th

Me: Ah, yes. The yearly mourn. I see.

*June 8th is the bad place for me lol

[phantomoftheorpheum]

a couple of things about 2x05 of summer school, i felt kind of disconnected from the girls for the most part.

first of all, like you pointed out, it seems like the writers wanted as to feel sad about noa and jen? absolutely not. i don’t like shawn’s mom but i understand where she’s coming from. i would’ve said way worse things to noa honestly - as we know the full story and shawn’s mom doesn’t. jen calling her evil or whatever was annoying. she has the right to be pissed. and the fact that jen doesn’t even acknowledge that shawn is the one who helped her out.

and then imogen blowing up at her dad. i like imogen a lot but i thought she totally overreacted as if her father committed some heinous crime. her mother gave back the ring years ago. if they had been together by the time of her death, and he took it and gave it to someone else THEN i’d understand. but to physically grab a knife and threaten to cut off her finger??? hello??? then she says to johnny “you must think im nuts” and he tells her he doesn’t… i do! it feels like the writers brushed that aside too much. i actually thought we were going to get a reveal that she only imagined it (in line with her medication issues) and that imogen would be upset for the rest of the dinner but that obv didn’t happen 😅

mouse was barely involved. i’m glad tabby told off wes. it felt like the writers were ignoring his weirdness from season 1 so at least we’re getting back to that. and i agree that it’s strange how fast henry was… converted.

overall, something about this season feels off to me. i don’t think i’m connecting with it as well as i thought i would but i am still looking forward to seeing where things go mystery wise. but the romance, friendship, and familial drama isn’t doing it for me. and the girls feel so disconnected but that might just be me feeling that.

I have yet again written a really long response to ask, so I have yet again decided to place it under a cut.

Okay. So, yeah, I will definitely stand behind the fact that I really feel the framing of the Noa & Jen breakup felt weirdly out of step with how they've been portraying the rest of that storyline so far. So then I just find myself thinking about what they're trying to tell us with that. Why? The thing that I find the most intriguing about this whole situation is the fact that, most of the time, they don't actually seem to be trying to make the audience like Jen at all. They go out of their way to give us scenes that make us feel bad for Shawn, just tons of him being sweet and oblivious and supportive, while also seemingly going out of their way to make Jen seem shady and like an absolute dick. That's such an interesting choice if they mean for Jen to continue on to possible future seasons of the show. It would have been so much easier to just have Jen be super nice and Shawn and Noa's relationship to be falling apart more organically. But that's not what they've done at all.

So why would you do this if you ultimately want your audience to want Noa and Jen to end up together? The only particularly good explanation I can see for that would be if Shawn's going to be a revealed as an antagonist, or possibly if they're going to try to pull a reframing twist of some kind where we see why Jen has said and done what she has this season and it was genuinely actually the best she could do and it makes us feel differently about those words/actions (but this doesn't really help redeem Noa's behavior, which a lot of people are struggling with). This second thing is pretty hard to pull off, but it can be done (see 1x04 of Queen Charlotte). I'm not sure PLL is the kind of show that wants to devote the time/care needed for that kind of storyline, but it's certainly a thought I've had.

The other answer would be that they don't actually care if the audience likes Jen because she's a temporary character being utilized as a plot device and they have no long term plans to keep her around (either because she's a villain, or because she just leaves once she's completed summer school).

The last option I've got is just that... they didn't mean for it to come off quite as harshly as it has for a lot of viewers (like if they are making Shawn so "perfect" because it's more dramatic for the audience if he's so oblivious and supportive, but they kind of over did it and now a lot of the audience just feels super bad for him to an extent they weren't supposed to?), but this seems less likely because like... how would you not realize the way this is going to come off? I mean, I HAVE seen writer's rooms and showrunners that are so completely out of touch with the audience, so it's not impossible, but in this case, it feels very intentional, imo.

I think one thing that is really common in fandom (or honestly just in humans in general) is letting our first impression or a generally good or bad impression color everything. So, for instance, I will see a lot of people excuse literally any and all of the girls' behavior, seemingly just because... we like them? They aren't always right. You can still root for someone and acknowledge they've handled something poorly or done something wrong. The girls don't need to be morally perfect for us to justify liking them.

So I think a great example of what happens in the opposite direction (we don't like this character, so they are never allowed to be right) is Shawn's mom. Shawn's mom sucks. I mean, I totally agree. She's a dick to Noa, showed a lack of compassion for her difficult situation, the passive aggressive way she spoke to her on multiple occasions was just flat out childish, and my overall opinion of her is that she sucks. But just because I think that overall she's shown more bad than good, and I don't personally like her, that doesn't mean that she's always wrong.

To an extent, I agree with her. She's right to be upset about Shawn pulling 2k out of his bank account for Noa just out of the blue with no explanation. I think it was also totally fair for her to remind Noa of the "house rules" if she's living with them. There is nothing weird about not wanting your teenage (minor) son to have a live in girlfriend who is ignoring your family boundaries. There is nothing weird about being concerned about your teenage son emptying all his savings for his girlfriend. As a mom, I think it's normal for her to be concerned about the things she's been concerned about. Most moms wouldn't be chill with this situation. The way in which she went about addressing all of those things sucked, imo, but the fact that she's upset is very understandable. On the other hand, I get why Noa, Jen, and even Shawn are not happy with his mother, (personally, I'm not sure that Jen really has many feelings about Shawn's mom at all, I think she just sees that conflict as a crack in Noa's relationship with him and she is actively trying to get Noa and Shawn to break up, so of course she was going to take this opportunity). They are teenagers. They feel like they're adults, and this feels overbearing to them. And the show honestly treats them like adults a lot of the time, so it's a weird cognitive dissonance for the audience, too.

I'm not sure where Rebecca & Imogen's dad might fit into the larger plot line, but I think the point of that scene for Imogen was to show that she is really close to snapping. In Dr. Sullivan's files she wrote something about Imogen teetering on the edge of a psychotic break, so I don't think the audience is supposed to think that was a totally normal response (I mean, I do get why she's upset. She clearly has sentimental value attached to the ring, and she feels like her mom is being replaced, regardless of how true that feeling is), and while I do agree that Johnny's response is startlingly chill, when I thought about it, I realized that sort of has been his character so far. He hasn't had much screen time, but his main characterization is being really calm no matter what's thrown at him and just staying kind of level. He's taken everything Imogen has said and done really easily and talked her down when she's upset. I think Imogen's deteriorating mental state will be a major part of the next three episodes. I even talked a bit about this in my breakdown of the trailer (I won't go into details here, because I know some people don't watch the trailers) and where I think that is going. I also definitely think her grabbing the knife is foreshadowing (so possibly this scene got a little over the top because they needed that moment). It's the second time Johnny has gotten her to hand him a knife when she's panicking, and I'd bet just about anything there will be a third time (though I suspect it will be an unsuccessful third time) this scenario comes up. Whether or not that's Johnny maybe failing to talk Imogen out of stabbing someone else, or him, who knows? Depends on if he's good or bad.

I always love seeing Wes get put in his place. He is trash. He just is. Even if he's not going to turn out to be a major antagonist, I'm glad the show is acknowledging that.

I can see where you're coming from with the way the relationships (of all kinds) are dealt with this season. There's just a lot of stuff going on, and I think the show is struggling a bit to balance all of it. Like you've got 3 established main love interests, 3 brand new love interests, Imogen's situation with Estelle, Greg & Kelly's relationship, the Mrs. Beasley/church thing, the BR "tests," the online mystery boards, Chip's lingering legacy & his mom, the online version of the cult, Mouse's grandmother, Faran's job, Tabby's films, Dr. Sullivan's whole plot, actual Rose Waters, and now this stuff with Imogen's dad. It's a ton to try to tie together, and it also means limited screen time for each of these things. I think if the show had even just like 12 or 13 episodes for this season, so there was a little bit of breathing room, it might feel like we get more time for characters to grow, connect, and just be themselves. A ton happens in each of these episodes. I would know, since I type it up every time one releases and it takes ages because there's so many different things going on. Plus, we don't know why any of these things are happening. Last season we had motive and it was more about "who." This season we don't know who or why. So it's just... a lot.

I'm having fun over-analyzing and breaking it down, but I can definitely see why it could be a hard to connect with.