#obi-wan does not actually think he's a bad jedi

[tarre-was-right]

ROUND TWO: MATCH-UP TWO

Remember, this is NOT about who would win in a fight. This is about who makes the best leader for Mandalore as a whole.

Explanation post

Seeding

Propaganda below the cut! You can submit more on this post and I will reblog it back to here!

New Propaganda

Anon: My propaganda for Bo-Katan vs Cody specifically: Bo-Katan quite literally spends her whole life trying to restore Mandalore. She works hard and tries to right her wrongs, and she does in the end. She wants what's best for Mandalore, even if it comes at a cost (she was willing to trade the Darksaber in for Mandalore's safety!!!). - Meanwhile Cody is not even a Mandalorian.

Bo-Katan Kryze

Anon: Bo-Katan propaganda: she babysat a Jedi child without the child dying or killing anyone and leading a planet is basically just babysitting a child on a big scale right

Anon: Bo-Katan spent like three years as a terrorist but she also spent 30 years rebelling against fascists so idk I'm willing to hear her out on this. Welcome back Princess Leia 👏

Anon: As Satine's sister, she would have received much the same early training and education in how to rule their Duchy on Kalevala, as she alluded to in her comments in The Mandalorian - while her involvement in Death Watch is perhaps not a mark in her favor, she did seemingly have many years of experience working as Pre Vizsla's lieutenant, and earned the trust of many of his followers who defected to follow her following Pre's death and Maul's claiming of the Darksaber and throne of Mandalore, forming the bulk of her fighting force during her efforts to reclaim that throne during the Siege of Mandalore - during the Rebels timeline, she has lost the throne once again due to an Imperial-backed coup, but seems to have been working to resist the Empire's rule; during this time, she is chosen to be the figurehead and rallying point of that apparently unsuccessful effort - finally, during the time of The Mandalorian, she has been rallying the surviving clans to reclaim the Darksaber as a stepping stone for reuniting their people; after her work with Din Djarin and the Armorer, she once again is selected by her people to be their leader as they work to rebuild their reclaimed home planet

Anon: Bo-Katan should be the Mand'alor because, while having done a LOT of shit, she tried her best to free Mandalore from the Empire and to give her people the safety they lost when the New Mandalorian Government fell - She worked to redeem herself, and she got back up every time she fell. She united the people of Mandalore from every aspect and kept the warrior traditions alive

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: Literally the only reason I can think of for Bo-Katan to rule is that she’s stubborn. She doesn’t stop trying to get Mandalorians organized and on their homeworld. Kinda a Robert the Bruce and a spider in a cave style parable, except instead of the English she’s trying to fight her own bad actions/behavior towards others

Anon: Bo-Katan propaganda: you know that quote about "It's hard for a good man to be king?" Well considering she's a terrible person she'd actually be pretty good at ruling Mandalore.

COMMANDER CODY

Anon: Propaganda for Commander Cody: - Cody was a student of Alpha-17, who in turn had been personally trained by former Mand'alor Jango Fett, giving him a strong training lineage claim to the title - Cody's service as Marshall Commander in the GAR gave him a lot of the diplomatic, organizational, and military experience needed to govern a planet like Mandalore

@spacetime1969: This man has led more people at once than anyone on this list.

Anon: Cody should be Mand'alor because it would be unspeakably sexy

@cha0s-cat: Cody has experience with negotiating from accompanying Obi-Wan, he leads a massive amount of his brothers already. Can recognize when there is a need for negotiations vs a need for violence. This would balance out the majority of the two factions (pacifists/traditionalists) excluding the extremists on either end. And with the amount of chaos that he has to deal with when it comes to Obi-Wan and Anakin, this would probably be relaxing.

@skykind: - Has resisted fascism and its attendant police/military state at great personal risk (Bad Batch 2.3), which is apparently necessary to successfully govern Mandalore so long as Death Watch is fully armed and also backed by someone more cunning than their usual leadership (Clone Wars 5.15). - Possesses exceptional leadership and organizational ability from his time as one of the highest-ranked Clone officers of the GAR. The Clone Wars and Bad Batch narratives furthermore present him as Obi-Wan’s peer, so he should be interpreted as equally skilled, wise, kind, and unhinged-in-battle as Obi-Wan. Jury’s out on the sarcasm. - Turns to diplomacy before fighting (Bad Batch 2.3). - Has caught a Jedi’s lightsaber mid-battle at least two times (Clone Wars 1.20 and Revenge of the Sith). This is a very useful skill to have as the prospective or current leader of people who keep chucking the darksaber about. - Has returned a lightsaber to a Jedi at least two times. This is a crucial skill to have as the prospective or current leader of people who should stop selecting said leader via darksaber acquisition.

@antianakin: [From the Boba vs Cody poll] So in a very practical sense, if I'm just looking at it with the question of "Who actually has the skills to be a good leader of people" [between Boba and Cody] then the answer is undoubtedly Cody. Cody was trained his entire life presumably to be a Commander in a large army and seems to do that very successfully for three years. He seems fairly humble, has good teamwork skills, he's kind and understanding and merciful, and he's a very skilled fighter. All of this would serve him exceedingly well if he chose to take on a leadership position, on Mandalore or otherwise. - The one downside to Cody is that Cody shows exactly zero interest in Mandalore at all. Cody does not identify as a Mandalorian at any point and never seems like he'd want to, let alone LEAD the Mandalorians. I do not personally see Cody actually being WILLING to lead Mandalore if offered the opportunity, even if he'd definitely have the skills to do so. I feel like if it were offered to him or fell into his lap somehow, he'd just pass it off immediately to the next most qualified person who was interested in it. Mandalore is not his problem or his responsibility and he's not about to change that.

[phoenixyfriend]

HELP I have a silly plot concept and IDK what to do with it Just holding it like. an potato

Basically I saw a "not like other girls" type of thing and it included a ref to the "because I am not like most people (I am a literally not human/I was raised by an assassin program/I am now a dude)" variant where the gimmick is that the reason they're not like other girls actually is really, really rare.

Aaaaaand now I'm thinking of what the best AU would be for Ahsoka to be Genuinely Not Like Other Girls and I've done "I'm not like other Jedi; I'm a soldier" time travel stuff where she is Kind Of Unnerving to pre-war Jedi so many times that it would be more fun to do it the other way.

Which is! Modern AU! Ahsoka is either:

1) A Red Room style assassin who escaped the program and is now Trying To Blend Into A Normal High School while being raised by Obi-Wan (dad mode) and Anakin (college student doing his best to older brother) and keeps having Confusion when her new school friends take her out for ice cream or shopping or something. (This is present in a lot of media but the immediate example in my mind is Season Three of Stranger Things with Eleven and Max going to the mall)

OR

2) Still an alien, but in a less cohesive galaxy, who crash-landed in Anakin and Obi-Wan's backyard and has a Special Watch that can make her look human and they just keep introducing her to people as their Cousin From Abroad, and hoping people are too polite to ask why she's poking the apples like they're going to bite her.

In either case, they may also try to excuse Ahsoka's lack of familiarity with the wider world as Grew Up In A Cult type shit.

Trying to remember who's actually her age that could go to school with her and I am blanking on basically everyone except Korkie? I think maybe Barriss could be a senior while Ahsoka's a freshman. Attempts to Big Sister at Ahsoka and it only sometimes works, tutors when Anakin is busy or bad at the subject, etc. Whoever Ahsoka's friend is, they're walking down the street together and someone tries to mug them and the friend is like oh! Must protect the innocent new friend who grew up really sheltered in a cult and doesn't know the ways of the world! And then she kicks the ass of the person trying to mug them and Very Carefully Does Not Kill.

New friend has stars in their eyes.

In the Assassin version, Plo Koon is her therapist/handler for transitioning into normal life. Government-assigned psychologist that she goes to see at least twice a week. He hands her plushies to hold during sessions, and A Plushie ends up being one of the first things she actually asks Anakin or Obi-Wan to buy for her that isn't purely practical (green owl).

[maeve-on-mustafar]

I know it’s super popular in SW fandom to clown on Anakin for ever trusting Palpatine in ROTS, and I’ll never defend it as a reasonable decision, but I think a lot of the criticisms of Anakin during this moment miss some crucial points.

The first is that when Anakin started meeting with Palpatine, he was twelve. It was with the Jedi’s full knowledge and permission. Of course, Palpatine is out to manipulate Anakin, but Anakin has no reason to think he can’t trust Palpatine. After all, the Jedi are his guardians, and they’re responsible for keeping him safe. Why wouldn’t Anakin trust Palpatine when Palpatine starts positioning himself as more sympathetic and understanding of Anakin’s differences than the rest of the Jedi? As far as Anakin knows, Palpatine is a trustworthy person who the Jedi approve of, and he has no reason to be on his guard in this situation. Which is exactly what Palpatine wants Anakin to believe, and then he has a decade to sink his claws into Anakin.

The second is by the time the Jedi are asking Anakin to spy on Palpatine, Anakin has already lost several important people in his life. The Jedi Council has already driven Ahsoka away by choosing politics over standing with her, and Shmi is dead in part because Anakin couldn’t go to her when he was having nightmares about her dying in agony every night. Now he’s having the same nightmares about Padme, who he’s not even supposed to be married to, and he’s also expected to spy on Palpatine, the dude who as far as he knows, has always been nice to him. Anakin has lost two out of the five people he loves the most because of the Jedi, and he’s at risk of losing two more. I don’t think this justifies his later actions, but I can see where he’s coming from. And so does Palpatine, and he’s able to use his knowledge of Anakin’s fears against both him and the Jedi.

Finally, I see a lot of fans acting as though Jedi were constantly warning Anakin for years that he couldn’t trust Palpatine, and Anakin ignored them. That’s not actually what happened. Mace Windu trusted Palpatine completely at the beginning of the war, so much so that he agreed with Palpatine to allow Padawans on the battlefield. At the beginning of Matthew Stover’s ROTS, it’s outright stated that multiple Jedi have come to Obi-Wan throughout the years with concerns about Anakin’s relationship with Palpatine, but Obi-Wan doesn’t take them seriously. Later, when Mace tells Obi-Wan that they need to start spying on Palpatine to monitor his accumulation of power, Obi-Wan is stunned, because he’s always seen Palpatine as their ally, and not someone to be wary of.

Blame Anakin for his bad decisions all you want. But don’t blame him for hanging out with a guy who the Jedi allowed to have access to him since he was a kid.

[antianakin]

@theneutralmime

Any time Anakin's "obsession" with Obi-Wan shows up in the story, it's very clearly a bad thing, because Anakin's "obsession" is a bad thing, full stop, regardless of who he's aiming it at. To use Star Wars parlance, this is the attachment, this is why the Jedi forbid it and why attachments are considered bad on their own and why they're not considered the same as "love" or "relationships." So Anakin being attached to Obi-Wan INSTEAD of Padme (which doesn't have to mean they're in a romantic relationship, obviously) doesn't make that attachment suddenly a good thing simply because it isn't romantic. It would still be dangerous and it would still likely push Anakin to do bad things in the name of the attachment.

That being said, Anakin shows the MOST restraint in his relationship with Obi-Wan, despite the clear attachment he does have to him. I'm willing to believe that Palpatine likely did ENCOURAGE an attachment to Obi-Wan while at the same time also planting the seeds for doubt in the relationship, balancing those things very carefully so that he could use Obi-Wan to pull Anakin into darkness. But the very VERY few times we see Anakin successfully manage to actually hold off from making rash and reckless choices is with his relationship to Obi-Wan.

I've mentioned most of these examples before, but I'll go over them quickly again.

Chronologically, we start with Attack of the Clones where Anakin is initially inclined NOT to go to Geonosis to save Obi-Wan until Padme convinces him into it (while you could argue that this shows a lack of CARE for Obi-Wan, this isn't really supported by the dialogue and it's contrasted pretty explicitly with Anakin planning to abandon Padme earlier in order to chase after his mother).

The next one we see is in Landing at Point Rain during TCW when Obi-Wan's ship crashes and it's unclear what Obi-Wan's status is and Anakin has to make the choice to stay with his men and leave Obi-Wan to his chances rather than run ahead and abandon his men just for the CHANCE to help Obi-Wan (especially when Obi-Wan could easily be already dead, or could die/receive help from someone else before Anakin can get there, while his men will almost certainly die without him before they can reach the landing zone and that would be pretty disastrous for the mission).

The third one is, ironically enough, in the Deception arc. When Anakin and Ahsoka are first sent after "Rako Hardeen" to arrest him and they find him drunk, Anakin explicitly tells "Hardeen" that he'd kill him if it wouldn't disrespect Obi-Wan's memory to do so. You can make the argument that he's able to hold back in part because Ahsoka's standing there watching him, so he couldn't really get away with killing a drunk man who won't fight back, but he doesn't seem to be paying much attention to her and his claim out loud is that he's doing it because it's what Obi-Wan would want him to do. He does start to struggle more and more as the arc goes on and loses some of that fight with his anger, but this initial moment does show us that Anakin CAN hold back when he wants to and that Obi-Wan's influence on him is, generally, a positive one.

The reason I point these out is because we don't often see this kind of restraint with any of his other relationships. Shmi, Padme, and Ahsoka in particular have a tendency to bring out the WORST in him (note that Obi-Wan's influence will stop being as strong when it's pitted against, say, Padme or Ahsoka's lives at stake).

So I DO think that Palpatine likely was originally intending for Obi-Wan to BE the primary "obsession" for Anakin until the opportunity to throw Padme back into his life came into play. We see elements of it in the way Anakin talks about Obi-Wan through AOTC, telling Padme that Obi-Wan is as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Mace, and telling Obi-Wan himself that he's the closest thing he's ever had to a father. But even with that, Obi-Wan's influence is very GROUNDING for Anakin, it reminds Anakin of who he should be and who he CAN be in a way no other relationship he has ever truly does. Obi-Wan's influence in Anakin's life actually INSPIRES Anakin to be better because Obi-Wan has managed to connect with Anakin in a way that goes deeper than some of his other relationships (I think that his relationships with Padme and Ahsoka are both INCREDIBLY skin deep and that Anakin mostly sees them as extensions of himself or primarily for what they can do for him rather than caring about them for who they are).

Which means that, while Anakin's attachment to Obi-Wan is always going to be a bad thing that could feasibly push Anakin to do terrible things, there's arguably evidence in canon to support the idea that if Palpatine had CONTINUED with this particular plan, that it wouldn't have worked quite as well as it did with Padme. I think that Anakin's attachment to Obi-Wan, such as it is, has to come up against Anakin's desire for Obi-Wan's APPROVAL which is only gained when Anakin acts MORE LIKE A JEDI. He WANTS to live up to Obi-Wan's faith in him, he wants to Obi-Wan to be proud of him and feel like the time and effort he spent training him was worth it. It's also worth noting that their dynamic as Master and Padawan makes the whole overprotective thing less likely to come up than it would with people like Padme and Ahsoka. Obi-Wan was MORE powerful than Anakin for a while, MORE capable of protecting himself than Anakin was, and was actually ANAKIN'S protector. So while he does CARE whether Obi-Wan lives or dies, he's also much more inclined to believe Obi-Wan can generally take care of himself, too.

So I can honestly see it sort-of going either way. Obi-Wan's relationship with Anakin is one of the few (if not the ONLY) real grounding influences in Anakin's life and could have possibly broken through the attachment enough to keep Anakin from going full tilt Sith, but it's equally as likely that Palpatine would've found a way around that anyway. Obviously, Palpatine could've just... killed Obi-Wan to get that influence out of the way and pushed Anakin over the edge out of a desire for vengeance as opposed to a desire to keep Obi-Wan from dying in the first place. The attachment is still dangerous, and as long as Palpatine's alive, he'll find a way to use it to get Anakin where he wants him, but if Obi-Wan is ALSO alive, he has the ability to balance out Palpatine's influence to some degree.

[artist-issues]

also, about Anakin—I distinctly remember realizing when I was first watching Star Wars that part of what makes Anakin’s relationship with Obi-Wan so compelling is that his love for Obi-Wan is as much forbidden as his love for Padme.

I mean, here’s this kid who’s too old to be trained as a Jedi, not because he’ll be prideful or have to catch up or anything, but because he’s old enough to have already learned how to get attached. And the Council was right; he never, ever unlearns that.

But the very first person aside from Padme that Padawan Anakin got attached to was Obi-Wan. And so all through his training, as he’s growing up and Obi-Wan is growing up too, Anakin is thinking “this is my guy. This is my older brother, this is my best friend, this is the only father I’ve ever known” and just recently discovered that someone like that (Qui-Gonn) can be killed and ripped away from you.

All through his training, that fierce attachment is growing, even more steadily than his love for Padme because he’s never separate from Obi-Wan…and the difference is, Obi-Wan shuts it down. It’s obvious that they love one another like brothers, but Obi-Wan never says it until Anakin is lying like chopped-up charred hibachi on the banks of Mustafar.

I mean, imagine having a father or older brother who you know loves you, but who refuses to say so? Except through his actions, almost in spite of himself?

And then imagine yourself as someone who never gets on board and believes in the code that says you can’t attach? So you know that your father-brother-figure is a hypocrite, about, like, the thing you think is the most important and also the stupidest part of the code?

Because he can’t say it! Because he’s supposed to be teaching Anakin not to get attached—what’s he gonna do, tell Anakin “I’m so glad you’re safe” every time they escape an adventure? Tell Anakin he doesn’t know what he’d do if he lost him? Remind Anakin that he cares? And then say “but attachment is bad. Trust the Force.” No, he’s not going to do that. He’s going to keep that aloof-thing going, even though Anakin knows Obi-Wan loves him.

So Anakin, a very dramatic young man who likes his declarations of affection super up-front, never gets that from Obi-Wan. And he’s so sensitive in the Force, and they’re so connected for such a long time—he must be feeling, constantly, that Obi-Wan loves him too. But Obi-Wan never says it. And even though Anakin knows why, it’s a constant source of frustration, because Anakin doesn’t actually respect the code and he doesn’t see why Obi-Wan does.

So constantly, Anakin feels like Obi-Wan is hiding affection for him, or withholding it. Keeping something good for him back. He’s feeling like Obi-Wan is, on some level, a little two-faced. He’s feeling like Obi-Wan’s willing enough to save his life and stick up for him—clearly Obi-Wan is attached—but coming out and saying it? Admitting it: “hey little bro, I know you’re attached to me but you have to stop; it’s not the Jedi way. I know how you feel, I’m attached to you too—we’ll just have to figure that out together?”

No, he never does that. Not until it’s way too late, and Anakin has already conflated Obi-Wan’s refusal to express their bond out loud with how deceitful and two-faced the Jedi are, and they have to be enemies.

which, you know, understandable, considering who Obi-Wan is as a character. but still.

Yeesh. I love this character, I feel like he was when I first started thinking about the tangled web of character motivations and conflicts, but the poor guy.

[kenobster]

The thing about Anakin (in prequel trilogy movies) is that he actually is a really good person by default. He is a war hero for a reason; he cares so deeply and unconditionally. Sure, he's a little careless sometimes and a little impulsive. He makes mistakes and bad calls and sometimes he needs to get his hormones under fucking control. But overall, he's very much trying to do a good job. He listens to feedback, he asks for advice, and he apologizes and tries to improve when he realizes he's wrong. 

Really, he only ever crosses unforgivable lines when two very specific criteria are met: (1) when the most sensitive points of his trauma are being put under an immense amount of pressure; (2) when his support system, for whatever reason, is absent. 

And even when those two criteria are met, he still struggles not to cross those lines as hard as he can for as long he can--until he eventually just snaps under the pressure.

Example #1, the Sand People massacre. Long before going to Tatooine, Anakin’s trauma points were already under an extreme amount of pressure. He was having nightmares about his mom--reminding him of his childhood as a slave and of the slavery in which he’d left her behind. When Anakin does go to Tatooine, his support system consists solely of a girl whom he does like and does trust but whom he doesn’t know very well. Old wounds continue to reopen as he takes his first steps into Mos Epsa and speaks with Watto, a being who owned and abused him. Anakin has no reason whatsoever to think Watto isn’t the orchestrator of his mother’s torment. But does he kill, dismember, or otherwise attack Watto? No. He remains polite. So polite, in fact, that it’s unsettling.

When he hears about his mother's capture and torture from the Lars family, Anakin is, suffice to say, upset. To rescue her, he goes alone (no support system). Even with his mother actively being brutalized (trauma), Anakin does not arrive with the intention of violence. He does not massacre the entire village in an attempt to rescue her. His plan is clearly to sneak in unnoticed, grab her, and sneak out. Even after seeing her strung up, at no point does his plan seem to change… Until she dies. In that moment, his mom, the epitome of his failure to free all the slaves, has just taken her last breath. He is completely alone. His mom has practically been slaughtered. His mom. Thus, his trauma hits a breaking point, and his usual support system is out of sight. 

He snaps. 

It is his choice, yes, but it is the result of a decade of abuse and generational trauma. It is also very much a mistake/accident… In other words, it is not an example of his true values and beliefs; it is an example of their temporary absence.*

*Evidence supporting this is in the scene with the line “to be angry is to be human,” but that’s a subject that needs its own whole ass post. I’ll link it later if I ever write it.

Example #2, the Jedi massacre. There are so many posts on the subject already that I'm not going to spend time detailing every single instance in which Palpatine isolates Anakin or manipulates Anakin into isolating himself. But a brief overview: sowing distrust in the Jedi Council, creating a narrative of deceit around the Jedi Order, orchestrating events to get Obi-Wan dead/offworld, and associating the dark side of the Force with Padme’s presence (via suggestions that only a Sith Lord can save her). With that, Anakin's entire support system is crippled. Unlike in AOTC, he is surrounded by loved ones, yes, but they can’t help him. By Palpatine's design, Anakin eventually bars each of them from entry.

Meanwhile, Palpatine is putting his trauma under extreme pressure and manipulating the shit out of him. Starting on the Invisible Hand itself, when Palpatine encourages Anakin to kill Dooku.* The movie explicitly connects this scene to the sand people massacre, which immediately establishes an awakening of old trauma. Wounds reopen, and Palpatine presses on them and he presses on them and he presses on them. Padme’s looming death becomes the symbol of his past trauma (of what he failed to protect and what he did as a result). And through Palpatine’s misinformation campaign, the Jedi become the perpetrators of this trauma, rather than the support system.

*For reasons beyond the scope of this post, I do not consider Count Dooku's murder to be an example of Anakin crossing an unforgivable line. I consider it to be an example of Anakin making a bad call. Even so, one could easily argue that his support system was absent and that his pressure points were being targeted in this scene, too. But I find that argument uninteresting because it doesn't apply imo.

Still, Anakin resists. Still, he tries again and again to retain his ideals. He seeks advice from Yoda. He listens to Obi-Wan's feedback and apologizes. He opens up to Padme. He initially rejects Sith Lord Palpatine. He tries to do the right thing by telling Mace Windu and letting the Council handle things. Because that's who he is--that's his true nature. Anakin is alone in the Council chambers (no support system) when Palpatine taunts him with Padme's inevitable death (trauma). And still, he resists. He races to Palpatine's office, but does he immediately kill, dismember, or otherwise attack Mace Windu? No. Even as Palpatine continues to press on his trauma (“I have the power to save the one you love!”), Anakin tries to reason with Mace. However much he is rationalizing the truth to his benefit, he is still trying to get out of this trap. He even admits the core of it in the end: “I need him!” Even then, even when Mace rightly goes for the killing blow, Anakin is still resisting! He attacks, he dismembers, but he doesn't kill. He makes an impulsive, ill-thought-out, almost reflexive decision (supported by the horror in the line “What have I done?!”). It’s as if Palpatine has shoved him right up against that unforgivable line, and Anakin is using his last inch of space to not teeter over it. 

Then Palpatine kills Mace Windu. In his mind, Anakin has nothing left after that. In his mind, he is responsible for getting Mace killed (trauma), and he doesn’t see how the Jedi can possibly forgive him (no support system). In his mind, his wife is dying (trauma), and he is alone in the presence of his abuser (no support system).

He snaps.

Unlike in AOTC, this does not happen by accident. These events were deliberately and continuously manufactured by a Sith Lord with an agenda. Palpatine directs Anakin’s explosion onto the Jedi Order, where Anakin compounds upon his trauma with more murder and more death. He becomes isolated to Palpatine's manipulations by killing (or enraging) his entire support system.

Afterward, Palpatine has all of the fuel he needs to make Anakin snap and snap and snap, over and over, for a very long time.

Who is to blame is such a boring, irrelevant question when we have such a fascinating character. The prequel trilogy gives us a complicated villain who is simultaneously the executor of such horrific violence and also the boy who wanted to free all the slaves. A villain who kills a part of himself every time he kills another. A villain who is so horrifically victimized even whilst he commits his terrible crimes. And because it's fiction (aka the victims of his actions are narrative elements, not people), I'm allowed to feel unashamedly devastated for him. I’m allowed to see the truth: that Darth Vader is only the suit he wears. The mask concealing the good person underneath. The Jedi Order was Anakin’s family, too, and you should feel sorry that he lost them. You should feel sorry for the way he is abused in ROTS. Darth Vader doesn’t represent who Anakin is or what he believes, and blame is irrelevant to this truth.

Because support systems matter. They matter to people who have gone through trauma. Yes, sometimes they are even the ONLY difference between the choice to do good and the choice to do bad. Sometimes, all that is necessary to prevent a heinous crime is to help them before they snap. I think people are uncomfortable with Anakin because that kind of helplessness is a really hard thing to admit. It's not fun to realize that you could have made similar choices if you had been in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong person. Research has shown people greatly prefer to attribute their accomplishments to their own actions and choices in life. It makes sense. The realization that external factors may have played a role in everything we take pride in is scary--but this fear leads us to the bias that we could never become Darth Vader. Even if we were raised as a slave, even if our loved ones were taken from us, even if our sense of reality was being manipulated and distorted--somehow we would not be broken. We would remain Anakin Skywalker.

It's a comforting fantasy for people who have done nothing wrong.

As someone who is human, someone who has made mistakes and bad calls and who regrets the times I might have crossed lines, I find a lot more comfort in the message George Lucas provides. The prequel trilogy is a story about the harm someone (anyone) can do if they're not careful. Anakin becomes Darth Vader not because he’s innately evil but rather because he’s under extreme pressure and no one is able to help him. In contrast, the original trilogy offers compassion and an opportunity for self-forgiveness. Darth Vader chooses to become Anakin simply because one person looked at what he'd done and said, "Stop. This isn't you." In the face of how helpless and dangerous every one of us can be, I find Anakin’s story to be really meaningful, and I wish more of us appreciated it.

[gffa]

I made the mistake, after episode 7 of the acolyte, to look through the tags (I’ve given up on Reddit for sw discourse lol) and there are so many bad takes out there. It’s like people watched a different episode. I’m glad there are some good meta takes from people like you, or I’d be lost! I think nuance is dead in fandom and people just can’t see things as more than “Jedi Bad!” When there’s so much more nuance than that. Were the Jedi perfect? No! Of course not. That would be so boring. If all Jedi were always perfect, SW would be dull. It’s because they aren’t perfect that they are so compelling. That they try to do the right thing, even if it doesn’t always work out.

A quote that came to mind by Teddy Roosevelt: “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

Anyways, thanks for your continued good meta and cultivating a nice pro-Jedi space!

Hi! I hear you, it can be tough going into the tags sometimes (and I've given up on both Reddit and Twitter for any kind of discussion, I just do not have the time/energy for that when sometimes I still have to fight for my life on Tumblr) but I will say that the best remedy I have for that is to start posting the content you want to see! It's so satisfying to write down your thoughts just to have fun in your own space, I don't need other people nearly so much because I'm having a great time just making myself laugh or cry over my faves or nerding out over worldbuilding. It's a bonus that I've collected a bunch of really great people around me, both ones I vibe with and ones who are chill when our vibes don't match and we disagree on stuff. I've been having an absolute joy of a time after episode 7 of The Acolyte because I've seen some great posts, I've had some hilarious conversations, etc. And part of that is just. Letting go of a lot of fandom. I'm a lot more relaxed about the Star Wars media I consume because it's not Lucas' Star Wars, I can take or leave it as I will and, most importantly, I don't need the Jedi to be perfect to be good. So much of my need for the Jedi to be perfect once upon a time came from that any little mistake they made, ones that were completely reasonable, ones that were simply just "didn't solve everyone's problems instantly", ones that were present in other characters who were allowed to just be instead of being raked over the coals for it, and how fandom would use those as a bludgeon against the Jedi. And that wasn't fun! So, instead, yeah, the Jedi are flawed, because any character ever is allowed to be flawed. The most cinnamon roll character ever is flawed and that's okay. Luke Skywalker is flawed. Padme Amidala is flawed. Bail Organa is flawed. Yoda is flawed. Obi-Wan Kenobi is flawed. Mace Windu is flawed. Ahsoka Tano is flawed. Leia Organa is flawed. Han Solo is flawed. Lando Calrissian is flawed. Ezra Bridger is flawed. Kanan Jarrus is flawed. Hera Syndulla is flawed. And on and on and on. If those characters can have flaws and be seen as good, well, then that's how I'm going to proceed with my Jedi faves, too. Oh, Mace wasn't bending over backwards to smile and be soft when he was having the worst day ever? That's what you're bringing me to show that he was bad actually? Babe, please, Luke started out as whiny and annoying and he's amazing, so Mace is amazing, too. The Jedi were in a no-win situation, not fighting would mean people would die, fighting meant compromising themselves, they had to make a choice, there was no third way out, there was no secret magical answer in Star Wars, so they did what they could to the best of their ability. And it's not on them to fix everything in the galaxy, they're peace-keepers who were drafted into a war, they're not the whole of the government, they're not there to be social service agents, that's not who they are or what they're equipped for. And yet they still tried to help whenever they could. Everyone fucks up sometimes and that's okay, it doesn't suddenly mean they're the real villain all along, because otherwise they would have to be literally be perfect to be "good" and that's just bad writing imo. Ultimately, just take a break from scrolling through the tags if you can and join me in writing your own stuff, it's hard at first to get the words to come out the way you want them to, but with some time and energy put into it, I've found it to be so much more rewarding. <3

[fanfic-obsessed]

Anakin Faces Consequences

Thank you @killjoypolitics for the submission

I love all your ideas! I was wondering if you had any ideas for a fix-it where the Jedi or Clones (somehow) prevent Order 66 from happening but Anakin still falls. How do you think the Jedi/Senate/public would respond to his attempted murder of the Jedi? Or the marriage? Or the murder of the Sand People? I’m just so curious as to how you think people would handle it! Do you think Anakin would be able to admit he was wrong and try and make up for what he did?

Hmm those are some intriguing questions. Reading them did give me some immediate ideas. Let’s explore them. 

I think, for this to work, we need to shift some behind the scenes for the Clone Wars. To start with Anakin’s…let's call them his less than stellar command decisions is noticed and noted, even if no one can do anything about them (because he is technically not doing anything wrong). It damages the trust the Clones, other Jedi, and even his own Padawan have in him.  These decisions include but are not limited to: Spending Clone lives to collect R2D2 (whose memory-properly wiped of sensitive information- is backed up to the central Jedi Temple databanks and had outright stated that it had no attachment to its current body), Anakin’s focus on Padme during the Blue Shadow virus, and his reaction to the Rako Hardeen arc (he was literally the only person in Obi Wan’s life to react poorly to finding out Obi Wan went undercover and faked his death, everyone else got Opspec). 

So by the time of the Wrong Jedi arc, no one is actually trusting Anakin with any more information than they absolutely need to. He kind of doesn’t notice because he wasn’t paying that much attention in the first place.  When the Senate demands Padawan Ahsoka Tano for the temple bombing, the Council calls her in to see them, without Anakin, and ‘We know you are innocent, we know this is a trap of some kind, would you be willing to go along to spring the trap and hopefully find who is framing you’ and Ahoska, being partially trained by Obi Wan, agrees.

No one tells Anakin. At the end of the Arc, Ahsoka agrees to continue undercover (as having left the Jedi) and working with the Shadows to figure out what is going on. So Ahsoka ‘leaves’ the Jedi, Anakin none the wiser. She also starts working much more closely with the Coruscant Guard (who had been aware that she was innocent and going along with things to spring the trap). 

This brings us to where Fives finds out about the chips, reports to Rex and Anakin, then is ‘killed’ (his death was faked and he was sent to join Ahsoka).  Anakin suppresses the report because he does not believe that his friend Palpatine could do anything like that. He orders Rex to ignore the report as well, specifically not to bring it up to the Jedi Council. But he does it in a way that still implies Anakin will be bringing it up to the appropriate authorities.  Rex does not trust Anakin, particularly not with anything that would make Palpatine look bad. However if Rex did an end run and went directly to the Jedi Council, it would be very obvious. So instead Rex reached out to Ahsoka with Fives report. 

Ahsoka, now working with the Shadows, gets the report and they are able to investigate the chips.  Though they cannot remove them, for fear that the wrong person will find out too early and activate the rest, they are able to quickly find and manufacture a way to neutralize the control portion of the chips. 

This brings us up to ROTS. To Order 66 and Anakin’s fall.  Anakin leads the march on the temple, and the 501st follow along (not sure where he was going with this), until Anakin strikes down a temple guard while ordering them to open fire. Had it been almost any other Battalion with almost any other Jedi, the Fallen Jedi would have been able to kill many more before he could be stopped.  But the 501st learned some difficult lessons from Pong Krell and Anakin was not gnarly as trusted as he thought.  Anakin is stunned.

Palpatine’s Empire as announced but without the control chips to make the clones kill the Jedi, Palpatine’s Empire lasts 3 days which end with Palpatine’s death. It takes another two weeks for everything to calm down enough to bring Anakin forward to face what he had done. 

Palpatine’s former supporters, the ones that are not outed and ousted during the transformation from Republic to Empire and back, flock to Anakin as the wronged party. Their spin is that Anakin was moving to protect the legal head of the government from an insurrection in the form of the Jedi. 

It gained no traction, because even though Palpatine’s Empire lasted 3 days, it was still enough to see how many of these people would react. Frankly, there were more than a few of those supporters (beings like Tarkin) whose support of Anakin did more harm to the cause than good. 

For many of the Jedi, Anakin’s actions didn’t really rate notice. Not above the horror of the chips, both from the view of ‘all of us would have died’ and ‘the clones would have been forced to kill us’.  Throughout the war Anakin had, mostly unconsciously, been distancing himself from the Jedi. A distance which grew as they realized he could not really be trusted. 

 For most there was sadness, of course, as more of his actions from the war and just before are revealed. But it was the sadness of an old friend going down the wrong path, not the betrayal of current family trying to hurt them.   Finding out Anakin had betrayed his oaths by marrying Padme and had committed murder was just one more thing that had happened. 

The public reaction was mixed. Many bought into ‘The Hero with No Fear’ mythos and could not believe he would attack the Jedi without reason, even after he admitted that his reason was Padme not anything the Jedi had done.  The scandal of it, though, keeps it in the public eye. And it is a seemingly unending  well of scandal for Anakin, Padme, and any number of their supporters.  Not the least of which is the news that Anakin murdered the Tuskans, but Padme’s forgiving him for it was legally binding (As she was acting as a Senator) so he could never be prosecuted for the murders, even if Tatooine and the Tuskens could make an official complaint about his behavior. That Anakin then married Padme made it even worse. 

I think, for Anakin himself, if he gets to the point of falling he would not be willing to admit he had done anything wrong. He seems like the kind of person who would double down and insist that he was right for his decisions.

[obikin-obsessor]

Not Obikin but I will be ranting about these force forsaken books

I just finished book three of Jedi Apprentice and um...I think I genuinely dislike Qui-Gon right now? First of all in the past two books he has denied Obi-Wan becoming his padawan despite the fact that he even STATES that normally a force bond only happens between two close friends or a MASTER AND PADAWAN PAIR. Despite the fact that Obi-Wan wasn't his padawan at this point and Mr. "Follows the will of the Force" Doesn't think to question this??? To ask himself about if the Force itself wants them together? No, he's busy sulking in his own years old sadness of his past padawan turning to the darkside. My boy Obi does everything he can to TRY and be useful to Qui-Gon, to show that he would make a good padawan yet every single time, Qui-Gon brushes his efforts aside until we're made to believe Obi-Wan has moved past this, he doesn't btw. He gets brought to the agri corp, finds something he thinks Qui-Gon should know about, gets brushed off again, even though we find out later that the boxes and crates in the agri corp don't belong to them THEY BELONG TO QUI-GON'S EVIL EX PADAWAN. He then gets kidnapped and has a SLAVE COLLAR put on him, where if he gets outside of a certain radius HE WILL EXPLODE. He tries to be useful and find a way out despite this and gets captured and THROWN OFF OF A BUILDING TO DROWN TO DEATH. And it's stated that he has accepted the fact he will die, even though he is only like twelve, bordering thirteen at this point. He gets saved though, not by Qui-Gon, by some other person who ratted him out in the first place. Sure Qui-Gon then arrives and deactivates the collar but poor Obi has suicide on the brain clearly because after the big confrontation they're left in a place that will explode and kill them and everyone else so what does Obi do? He's like "Hey I can reactivate my collar and it'll go off and bring the door down! Then you'll be able to save everyone!" Like damn, he is thirteen and is already completely willing to just die if it means saving everyone else, no sense of self preservation there. It's only after all of that when Qui-Gon asks him to be his padawan and Obi agrees, should be happy sailing from here right? NOPE! (Book 5 has a whole ao3 tag for God's sake and it's hard NOT to know what's gonna happen there) When someone turns thirteen or their species equivalent and is officially someone's padawan. Their Master gives them a gift, one that usually Master's put a lot of thought and care into picking out the perfect thing to give them, and mind you Jedi aren't usually allowed personal possessions yet this is an exception. Some padawans get cloaks to keep them warm, or something to heal them should they be injured. Obi? He gets a rock. A FREAKING ROCK. And he's SO disappointed and I can't even blame him, for all he or maybe even Qui-Gon knows, it's just a normal ass rock.

Said rock ends up being force sensitive and saving him from having his memories taken away but he didn't know that and Qui-Gon sure as hell didn't tell him, even remarks at the end that he thought it was just a normal rock and Obi can't tell if he's being serious or not. Would it kill Qui-Gon to be a bit more open and honest with Obi? Because we know from his POV he does actually care about him to a degree, worrying over him and even mourning his loss when he thinks Obi's memories are gone) But does he tell Obi? NO! And I loathe it so much because I didn't really mention it here but Obi also has REALLY bad anxiety, he's never calm it seems like and again, he has suicidal ideation in the beginning and I don't know if that's fully gone yet. Thank you for hearing me rant, I will probably continue doing so the more of these books I read, thank you Jude Watson.

[i-really-love-cookies]

i love palpatine’s manipulation. not in the way that he hurt anakin and padme when all anakin wanted was to save his wife and child(ren) but in the way that it’s so good.

we already know that palpatine is the sith lord from return of the jedi, but the prequels show how really horrible he was. in the original trilogy we just saw him as this mysterious guy who was leading stuff behind the scenes, but most of our focus was on vader. in the prequels he becomes much more terrifying. he turns from a mysterious man to a cruel, manipulative being.

at the end of the phantom menace, when palpatine has been elected chancellor and comes to naboo, when he sees anakin he praises him for what he did and says “we will watch your career with great interest.” he is already implanting himself as an important figure with anakin. he’s known this kid for about two minutes, but he also knows about anakin. if the theory that palpatine is anakin’s father is correct, he would know that anakin was a slave. he would know about his mother, his friends, his situation. at the lack of a parental figure, palpatine became a father figure for anakin so that obi wan couldn’t.

throughout the ten year time skip between the phantom menace and attack of the clones, palpatine obviously becomes closer and closer to anakin. he becomes like a father figure to him. anakin even says that. i can’t remember when exactly but he does. the revenge of the sith book states that anakin and obi wan are like brothers, because as stated earlier, palpatine became a father figure before obi wan could.

when anakin goes to palpatine to convince him to talk to padme, he says “you are the most gifted jedi i have ever met.” and “i see you becoming the greatest of all the jedi, anakin. even more powerful than master yoda.” he is praising anakin on his skill, which we know is what he craves when he didn’t allow himself to smile at the start of episode iii until obi wan says “another happy landing.” however by saying that anakin could be greater than master yoda, he’s putting an idea in his mind that he is better than yoda. what if he is better than yoda? after the death of shmi he definitely wants to be. if he can be greater, more powerful than yoda, then he can save ahsoka. he can save padme. anakin’s obsession with power and controlling things after being controlled his whole childhood is part of the reason that palpatine was able to turn him.

i don’t believe that palpatine had anything to do with ahsoka’s trial, but if she hadn’t left the order then i believe he probably would’ve gotten dooku to get rid of her so that it would be easier to get anakin to kill him, and then manipulate the emotions he feels after it. when anakin says “i shouldn’t have done that” palpatine immediately gets in and explains it away. to get him to think of killing an unarmed man as easy as cake would turn him into the ruthless killing machine that vader is.

and then he turns obi wan against him. it’s just so good, how he gets to anakin when obi wan is away, he’s having bad dreams of his wife dying, he doesn’t know if rex and ahsoka are alright and the council is being… well the council. he tells him about darth plagueis, makes him think that he just needs to tap into the dark side for a bit to save padme, and then reveals himself to anakin knowing that he won’t say shit. if he does, his wife could die. anakin needs palpatine to tell him how to save padme. when anakin does actually turn he says that he’s only doing this to save padme’s life. that’s it.

like, palpatine’s an absolute arsehole, and i hate him with every bone in my body, but the way he manipulates anakin and everyone around him is just MMM

[jedi-enthusiast]

In light of the new Ahsoka show pissing me off, I have decided that---at some point after I finish up mitptt and get going again on bcc---I'm going to write a spite fic.

----------

In said spite fic, Ahsoka---at the age and time she is in the Ahsoka show---goes back in time to the Prequel Era, where her younger self discovers her.

Now, it's obvious that older Ahsoka- (who we'll call O!Ahsoka) -is younger Ahsoka- (who we'll call Y!Ahsoka) -at a different age, so O!Ahsoka can't really lie her way out of being discovered. After that becomes obvious to her, O!Ahsoka figures- "Oh the Force must've sent me back in time so I could save myself and Anakin from the stupid dogmatic Jedi!" -and decides to do just that.

Then, after O!Ahsoka basically treats the other Jedi- (barring herself and Anakin, and maybe Plo) -like shit, shits all over the Order and their practices, and just generally acts like an ass about everything and shows a surprising amount of ignorance---Y!Ahsoka is like- "What the fuck is wrong with you? Have you forgotten that these people are our family? Have you forgotten how the Force works? Have you forgotten why we practice certain things? What the hell?"

So O!Ahsoka tells her everything---all of her opinions on why the Jedi and especially the Council are bad/hypocritical/whatever/etc, everything that happened in The Wrong Jedi arc, how Obi-Wan was apparently "playing politics" and "betrayed her" or whatever, everything Anakin did and what that lead to, how Anakin's actions are apparently the Jedi's fault, etc---in hopes that hearing all of that will turn Y!Ahsoka against the Jedi and make her help her "save Anakin from them."

Cue Y!Ahsoka going off.

Y!Ahsoka absolutely rips O!Ahsoka and her arguments to shreds---defending her fellow Jedi and their beliefs, both through logical emotional arguments, and just expressing her shock that O!Ahsoka could so easily forget all that they were taught and be so fucking callous about the death of their family.

Y!Ahsoka then uses the information that O!Ahsoka has given her to help her fellow Jedi stop Anakin from fucking everything up and killing them all---as well as take out Palpatine and win the war.

All the while also having an identity crisis because- "how could she turn into such an asshole???" -but everyone, particularly Obi-Wan, helps her through that.

Meanwhile O!Ahsoka has to deal with the fact that she actually is wrong and an asshole, and also work out her own issues in a healthy way instead of just ignoring them, absolving Anakin of any agency, and blaming the Jedi.

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This fic will also be full of a healthy dose of Rex finding out what Anakin makes him and his brothers do---how easily he was ready to cast them aside---and, after dealing with all of the bullshit that Anakin has been pulling throughout the war, he decides that he's just fucking done with him.

He just walks away from him, decides that he's not putting up with any of this anymore.

In a similar vein, I'm thinking about Padme also learning about this stuff and---paired with Anakin's now super erratic and crazy behavior, plus they've just recently "made up" from the Clovis stuff---she does some serious thinking and finally sees Anakin for what he is, and makes the decision to leave him because she hates the person she's become by being with him.

[distortionbobble]

Royal Flowers Chapter 8

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series masterlist

pairing: anakin skywalker x fem!poc!reader

summary: A long, long, time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a certain Jedi by the name of Anakin Skywalker meets you, the current Queen of Naboo and cousin of Padme Amidala, and is tasked with protecting you by pretending to marry you. As a spy, you’ve infiltrated the Separatist ranks and are close to finding out the mastermind behind all of it. The fate of the galaxy is in your hands.

warnings: minors dni, some mentions of gore, guilt, trauma (who is surprised. please), angst, a shower scene but it's really unsexy except for anakin on his knees series will have eventual smut, canon level violence, etc etc.

a/n: tagging makes me feel a type of violence that is historic in nature. not beta read. any comments and reblogs and all are so so appreciated thank u so much for reading

You never realized how intertwined grief and guilt are before now. Anakin allows you to pretend that you’ve fallen asleep as he hoists you into the speeder with Obi-Wan, stroking your feverish forehead with his cool metal hand. He’s draped you in his cloak, hiding the blood on your clothes. If Obi-Wan knew you were awake, he’d ask you questions, questions that you wouldn’t have the strength to answer. Anakin lays you down gently with your head on his lap, a comfort you don’t think you deserve. 

You keep remembering the spray of blood on your face, its metallic, coppery scent staining you forever; you did that. You took away her life, forever, without hesitation, without stopping. While it felt like a blur in the moment, it feels crystal clear now: the sight of your hands, tangled in the roots of Reyna’s hair, blood muddying the sand as dark rivulets formed from the pool of blood forming from Reyna. And that lifeless look in her eyes, the one she had before you had actually managed to kill her… she wasn’t afraid. She knew you were going to kill her. She knew she was dead before her heart managed to stop beating. 

The thought of that alone terrifies you. So you cling tighter to Anakin’s thigh, a shiver running through your body as you try to hide from your guilty conscience. He says nothing, just holds you tighter; you imagine he’s doing the work of shielding both yours and his emotions from Obi-Wan. You feel guilty that you can’t even muster the energy to care. Reyna’s face haunts you in the dark space of your eyelids every time you blink. There is nowhere to hide from her, from your guilt. 

Anakin can feel your turmoil. He strokes the top of your head, hand shaking as he tries to hide his own sins. How many bodies has he buried, now? If he hadn’t been talking with Obi-Wan, distracted by the thought of you instead of living in reality, would he have been able to protect you from Reyna? That, too, scares him. When did death become his shadow? 

“It has been a long time since you last meditated, young Anakin,” Obi-Wan comments quietly, just barely audible over the hum of the machinery. Anakin wonders if Obi-Wan can see the movement of his hands, the way that he’s seeking comfort in you. He hates that Obi-Wan is right about this whole thing. This is attachment. He’d do—did— dark things for you. But if it’s so dark to keep you safe, to protect you, how can the darkness be all that bad? It’s tearing him apart. All he knows now, all that makes sense to him now, is keeping you safe. Whether it’s for himself or the galaxy is a question Anakin does not have an answer to. 

“How can you tell, Master?” Anakin asks. You’re restless on his thigh and, worried you’ll give yourself away to Obi-Wan, he quickly brings his hand over your face, willing the Force to send you into a dreamless sleep. Some peace for you, he hopes. Obi-Wan does not answer his question immediately, only giving him that knowing smile that drives him absolutely mad sometimes. 

“You forget, Anakin, that I know you just as well as I know myself. Even if you have hidden your Force Signature from the world for the protection of the Queen, you cannot hide your emotions from me. They are written plainly on your face,” Obi-Wan responds finally, placing a gentle hand on Anakin’s shoulder. He knows it’s meant to guide him, comfort him, but it just feels… oppressive now. All Anakin can think about is getting you to somewhere that no one can hurt you, where you won’t have to put yourself through what you did ever again. His selfishness tears through him, cuts into pieces his resolve and wish to be a good Jedi. “Anakin, I… I worry for you. In this lonely palace, with only the Queen to keep you company. The Force will never abandon you, Anakin, but you must take care not to abandon it. There is light within you, light that you must foster and protect.” 

“And what happens to that light if I’ve done something horrible, Master?” Anakin asks quietly, trying desperately to find that light within him. Maybe it was snuffed out long ago. Obi-Wan seems stunned by his question, but Anakin’s question remained. Everything that happened today has brought his past to the forefront of his mind. The Sand People, his obsession over Padme… maybe there never was any light in him. 

“It is never too late to turn back to the Light, Anakin.” Obi-Wan doesn’t press further. For his own sake or for Anakin’s, Anakin doesn’t know, but the guidance soothes him anyways. He’s tired. The cold of Tattooine’s desert at night has caught up to him, so many years later, sinking into his skin, threading through his tissues until his heart pumps sluggishly. 

“You and the Queen look unwell,” Obi-Wan observes. “Perhaps the both of you can get some rest, and I’ll talk to Padme to get a lead on which Ministers we can use.” 

“Padme’s here?” Anakin asks. He’s acutely aware of the unchanging pace of his heart, the steadiness of his breath and he realizes that his love for her has faded. All that remains is a genuine, pure fondness for her. It only makes him feel more hollowed. “Give her my regards, will you, Master?” Obi-Wan nods wordlessly as the speeder reaches the service entrance of the palace. Anakin rouses you quickly, the short window of time serving as cover for your silent departure.

Your bleary eyes take in the palace groggily, the beautiful stone walls seeming more and more like a prison as your knees buckle. Before you can fall, Anakin lifts you into his arms, hooking one arm under your knees and the other across your back. You feel safe in his arms, a temporary comfort as he sneaks the both of you back to your chambers. 

By some sheer luck, you reach the room completely undetected. Anakin sets you down and ushers you to the shower. Anakin had done his best to wipe the blood off of you, but it stains you still. The sight of it confronts you as you look at yourself in the bathroom mirror, rings of blood and tired eyes staring back at you. Anakin, noticing the unforgiving scrutiny of yourself, turns you away from the mirror and begins to ease the clothes off your stiff form. He’s hesitant but there’s no choice— you aren’t in the state of mind to be able to take care of yourself, and the longer you stay like this, with the dirt of your crime still smeared on your body, the worse you get. 

“Do you think I’m a monster?” You ask him softly as he undoes the last piece of clothing, leaving you bare to him. The physical vulnerability does not cross your mind as he guides you into the steam of the shower, studying you for a moment before he realizes you shouldn’t be alone. Privacy is not a luxury you can afford right now. He washes his hands, still caked in blood and sand, and joins you in the shower. 

“No, my queen. I think you were forced to make choices that no one should have to make. I think you’ve done your best to keep your conscience,” Anakin responds. He washes his hands and brings them to your face, wiping the blood and dirt from your cheeks with his thumbs. Your eyes flutter shut from his gentle touch, overwhelmed by the intimacy of his care. He moves slowly to your shoulders and neck, easing away the tension in your muscles with each knead of his hand. Your eyes look downwards, to the foamy stream of red dripping off of your body, but Anakin catches the movements and directs your gaze back to his eyes. The spray of the water soaks his clothes, making it cling to his skin as he gently cleans your face. “Hey,” He says quietly. “Forget about that. Just look at me, okay?” You nod, and he quietly washes any blood from your arms. He does it delicately, keeping his eyes fixed on yours even as water drips from his eyelashes onto his cheeks. The shower stream drenches him, making his hair plaster to his forehead, but he doesn’t look away, even as he works down your body, getting to your legs. He’s respectful about it, doesn’t break his gaze away from your face as he kneels at your feet. And from your feet, looking up at you under the harsh bright light of the shower, he thinks that you look like a terrible goddess—powerful, so powerful, burdened with a task that will forever remain thankless. You are a remorseful goddess, the deity of those who never got to keep their humanity. Beyond the hollow sheen of your eyes, he sees it all; the guilt, the sadness, the knowledge that you’ve done something that will stain your soul forever. He cannot look away, captivated by you and the sheer energy you hold. To Anakin, this is right; this subservience to you, bowing at your feet because there is some part of your spirit that demands respect. 

But even goddesses stumble. The distant look in your eyes makes him stand without second thought, holding you up before you crumble into his chest. You shed no tears, merely closing your eyes as Anakin holds you to his body, surrounding you in warmth with the help of the warm water. The warmth of being next to you, the privilege of holding him warms him even as the soaked cloth clinging to his skin chills his bones. He hesitates before he slowly puts his chin on your head, holding you tightly as you breathe shallowly. 

“Remorse is a luxury few can afford,” you mumble into his clothes. Anakin knows you’re right, but Maker, if you don’t deserve that luxury, no one does. Your breathing slows and deepens as you regulate your emotions and distance yourself from it all. 

You are a monster. It couldn’t be clearer to you. Anakin’s handling of you as though you are made of glass only shows his revulsion. He must have held you out of fear, out of responsibility, but it’s a kindness you do not deserve. Is the value of a life worth so little to you? It wasn’t a clean death. It was messy, vengeful, and there was no walking back from this guilt. You killed someone. You’re no better than the woman you killed. 

And then you look into Anakin’s eyes. Eyes like the oceans, like the horizon of a clear blue sky. Eyes filled with compassion, softness, and you realize that you don’t regret your bloodshed. You’d do it again to protect him. To protect his goodness, and the goodness just like his, you’ll take the sins of the world as your own. You’ll become something awful, metamorphosize into something unrecognizable to those who loved you, but it’ll be worth it. Deep down, you’ve always known your fate was something like this; you are a lamb, raised for slaughter. You’ve been staring at the knife that will bring your death for so long. It only makes sense; the death of the Queen of Naboo would only serve the final blow to the people of Naboo. They’d be left defenseless, with no protection against the Separatists, who’d tear the planet apart. You’ll die at their hands or someone else’s, you’re certain. But here, you feel as though your death will mean something. To protect Anakin, to protect Padme, and all the others that you’ve loved in the small moments of kindness that you’ve borrowed from them. You’ll kill, again and again, and be killed, for their sakes. 

“I must see Padme and Obi-Wan,” You say, pulling away from Anakin’s embrace. Your movements are swift, methodical as you get dressed. You’ll act as though nothing happened. You’re a monster, you might as well act the part. You don’t want to see the expression on Anakin’s face as he watches you return to normalcy. You’ll protect him from your guilt, too. “Don’t stay in your wet clothes for too long, you’ll fall sick,” You add. You don’t deserve to care for him, but you care anyway. He’s silent for a beat before he responds. 

“Their meeting is secret. You’ll find them in the hidden passageways of the palace, known only to the Queens. Obi-Wan was led there, but I’m sure you know where to go,” Anakin states. He sounds tired, but you don’t have time to dwell on that. You bid a quick farewell, and head to find Padme.  

~~~

“Padme’s told me that the Political and Economic Advisor Horace Vansil is trustworthy,” Obi-Wan informs you as you join the duo in the shadows of the secret passageway. The lit beacons flicker some distance away from you, casting shadow on to your figure. You’re grateful for it. Padme can read you like a book, so you can only hope that the lowlight will obscure the numbness upon your face. 

“We’ll task him with increasing the import of grain and long-term food sources, then,” You conclude. There’s levels to your response, but you need to be prepared. And to be prepared, you need to be detached. Cool. Collected. 

You blink, and Reyna’s face, bloodied and bloated from death smiles at you in the darkness. She’s laughing, lips pulled into a grotesque, mocking smile. She’ll get away with it, she’s telling you. Listen, she says. Listen to me. You’ll fail. You’ll fail them all. We’ll kill you last, so you’ll have to watch them die before you. You shudder involuntarily. 

“...Milady?” Obi-Wan asks, snapping you out of your nightmarish trance.

“Apologies,” You say, blinking rapidly to refocus. Obi-Wan’s scrutiny is unforgiving, but you pay it no mind. “Yes. We’ll do it,” You respond absently. Padme also looks oddly at you, but says nothing on the subject. 

“There’s one more thing,” She adds. “Something is off about Chancellor Palpatine. I can’t place it but he seems more antsy these days. Getting much more involved in the business of not only Naboo, but nearly every planet and system that has any power in the Republic. It’s… odd, to say the least.” “Speaking of the Republic,” You respond, recalling the interaction you had with Darth Sidious, “there’s something odd that Darth Sidious said to me. He said our forces will be too occupied to help Naboo. I believe that like with the government of Naboo, there’s someone with great power in the Senate who is more than they seem.” Padme nods. “I’ve gotten the same feeling. Things are changing, and I don’t think we have much time left.”

“We’ll give them what they want, then,” You sigh. “If I can arrange a visit to Coruscant, I’ll be in a vulnerable-enough position for them to want to make a move. If we can draw out the mole, we can act.” 

“Padme, your suspicions of Chancellor Palpatine… will Anakin’s friendship with him jeopardize this in any way?” Obi-Wan asks. 

“On the contrary,” You smile bitterly. “I think it could be of great help.”

“It’s settled, then,” Obi-Wan sighs. “You’ll have to come back to Coruscant.”

[phoenixyfriend]

Hey have a fun AU I came up with the other day after reading a bunch of fics with related tropes

It's a raised Sith AU. Anakin was found by Sidious well before he was found by Qui-Gon. He was raised by the Sith, is a classically horrible monster stalking about TCW to be Vader (mask and all, just as an intimidation factor instead of life support) while Ventress and Grievous and Dooku do their own things in a different section of the war. He's got a Really Fucking Weird dynamic with Obi-Wan, mostly attempting to kill him etc.

At some point, Palpatine allows Anakin and Padme to meet. The romance that blooms is one that Sheev decides is useful to him, so he lets it happen.*

Padme gets pregnant. Sidious arranges for her death. Anakin loses his entire shit and tries to kill Sidious. Obi-Wan is off trying to save Padme, unaware of Anakin getting his remaining limbs cut off by his this-universe Master. (This is important, because Anakin does remember Obi-Wan trying to save Padme.)

So we have Anakin, who was raised Sith, and just lost the only things that have mattered to him since his mom died when he was a kid, and Palpatine has pushed him further into the Dark than he ever has. Anakin… knows more about the Sith Secrets in this universe.

Anakin finds a Sithly Time Machine. Maybe on Malachor. There's an owl? Whatever.

Anakin, someone who's been Vader for the vast majority of his life, wakes up at age nine. Maybe even younger, like six. His mother is already dead at Sidious's hands. He's already roommates with Maul. He's already being trained as a baby Sith.

Anakin, being a 20 year old war veteran, is much better at escaping than Sidious has planned for. He reprograms a medical droid to take out his slave chip, steals a ship, etc. All the stuff that Maul wasn't very good at, and Anakin was too young for, so Sidious didn't have the preventative measures in place for yet.

Anakin heads for the one place and person he thinks he can trust: Obi-Wan Kenobi.

(Obi-Wan is still a padawan. But this Baby Sith just declared him Adoptive Teen Dad, so.)

@lizasweetling (all indented bits from here will be hers):

Because Sith. Bad for mental health of the user and generally bad for their environs But also baby. And if hes dragging Maul around no doubt the dude is constantly himself confused why he is here Like yeah, Sidious sucked, and this 6-9yo is way powerful and knowledgeable on the dark side (?????) But why are we going to the Jedi? And not even trying to kill them apparently?????

Anakin is very much being affected by Baby Brain and Baby Endocrine System. He cries a lot more than he should.

I WASN'T THINKING OF HIM BRINGING MAUL BUT YEAH. THAT'S. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

Jedi Council trying to decide if this is more "Adult Sith got shrunk" or "child got evil man's memories." Vader wants to know why it even MATTERS. (He didn't actually plan on telling them, but he has very little self control right now.)

The first Good Act he does is tell them where to find Ventress and Ky. (In the original timeline, he viewed Ventress as like. Cool older cousin.)

Vader's right, that distinction does not matter Aaaw, she deserves that, that's nice Maybe she will be like 20% less homocidally traumatized

Anakin is furious when Maul and Obi-Wan pick him up under one arm like a package. He is a GROWN MAN he is an ADULT he was a SITH LORD and about to be a FATHER, he is TOO OLD FOR THIS.

They point out that he is Baby.

😂 sorry lord of evil, you're too baby, have a nap and maybe your feel better. Assuming the crisis on Naboo is still happening, and as such the vote of no confidence is right now, it might be a great time to report Sidious as a Sith lord. Post-escape from Sidious, both he and Maul definitely will need a nap. It's that kinda place.

Oh, it's probably at least a year before. Anakin keeps trying to sneak off to kill the man himself, but the Jedi are more ready for his Sneaking than Mustafar was, so he keeps getting caught before he can reach the Senate.

At one point he tries to just CHARGE the place and you get Mace and Obi-Wan sprinting after him. The News captures videos of this very small child getting chased by an older Padawan and a Master and they are mostly yelling for him to PUT DOWN THE SABER.

(Sidious might see him but what's he going to do? Might cause too many problems for Sidious to be aware of Anakin's presence with the Jedi, though. Best not.)

It's probably more expensive on average to hire an assassin on a child, just in general But on a jedi youngling??? If he can even find someone to do that, it will be so very, ridiculously expensive And likely 70%+ upfront payments

Ahsoka definitely seeks him out. Toddler baby child. She adores him for reasons unclear to anyone and everyone.

!!! Baby has baby!! Vader's probably a little thrown by this. Been a while subjectively since someone just loved him. And not even for like, a reason. Baby Vader coerced into sitting obediently for nap by tired kiddo: [The council liked that]

The number of times that vader could only be convinced to nap by Obi-Wan grabbing him, caging him in his own lap, and forced to Sit Quietly until he just fell asleep like that...

He has things to do, he's not tired 😡😡😡💢 (He's 9. Distances are between 150 and 195% longer when measured with steps, he's hungry (subjectively) all the time, and has only middling coordination He so is too tired)

Anakin doesn't know Qui-Gon at all but he keeps getting stuffed into the man's top because he's just. Small enough to fit.

Like the bomb boobs gif, but it's a small child.

the indignity

You just. You can't let him get too self-important.

Vader is Disgusted every time the pediatric healers try to talk down to him like they do to other 6yos.

The difference between this and other "Vader goes back in time to the Jedi" AUs (like Force of Many Sights) is that this Vader has never been a Jedi, and doesn't know anything about them except how they fight when he's trying to kill their friends.

Also Maul's there.

Because even he has a hard time taking himself seriously when hes so easy to manhandle Rest of the time; I am fear, I am death personified As luggage child: I am so small. The tiniest. I crave violence He's probably very annoyed they keep taking away his saber And hey! Obi gets practice not losing his! Woooo!

Something something Anakin clinging to Maul's back (piggy back ride) and chewing on his head or something stupid like that. Perfect height for head biting.

You know, the classic anime head bite

Maul probably has been nominally talked into this because this 9yo is a powerful darksider But he is also the world's most annoying tiny kid Maul would've thought his phenotype would make him immune to this ridiculousness He was wrong At least the teeth are a bit less pointy than his other little brothers'? Appreciating the little things

tfw your unwanted little brother drags you to what you think is a cult but actually they're way less culty than your last two places so you just stick around to keep an eye on the little shit

Anyway. ObiMaul for this one.

They're peers They're tired They just want to sit down and not have to chase this weird little murder child They have a lot in common 😊

They are all just a little bit stupid, I love them.

Qui-Gon is a Cool Mom (throws condoms at them and books it).

Yeah, that's about as much involvement as would be appreciated They probably did a lot of sparring before the tension broke Which did not relieve said tension, generally made it worse (Competence, athleticism, sweat-) Vader is confused, but probably doesn't mind He's probably glad they're distracting each other from stopping assassinating a certain someone (Which- that is 9yo hubris. He would need help to do that)

I still can't decide where on 6yo-9yo he falls but somewhere in there

Babies means easier hiding in shirt, teenie Ahsoka, and longer for him to convince the Jedi council to do a Sith hunt before the Naboo situation

Also longer for Maul and Obi-Wan to faff about being all Tension

* Vaguely inspired by the backstory of Rulebreaker/Wildheart, which is great but significantly more of a romance fic than this.

[vaguely-concerned]

Thoughts upon finishing Master and Apprentice! A good double read with Padawan; the ending of that leaving Obi-Wan slightly hopeful about his relationship to Qui-Gon makes for a very sad yet hilarious ‘Local Padawan loses last little bit of hope he didn’t even know he still had’ sort of vibe to the beginning of this one, which is set one (1) year later and Obi-Wan is So Done with Qui-Gon’s whole deal by this point (correctly btw). Also if you can’t tell already I will not be objective or free from bias in this because I love Obi-Wan so much and some of the stuff Qui-Gon pulled made me incandescent with rage on his behalf <3 let’s go

- 'oh obi-wan, you're so mature for your age, I keep forgetting you're only seventeen years old,' qui-gon says, word for word, repeatedly, in master and apprentice, apparently willfully deaf to the industrial-sized warning bells about their relationship dynamic that should probably be setting off in his head. qui-gon believes in vibing with the living force and being in the moment right up until the moment requires him to pay attention to the kid he's raising for more than oh, one and a half minutes of self-effacing inner monologue and then he's like 'well unfortunately there is simply no time for that right now there are prophecies to be pondered'. (the fact that the admission that obi-wan has essentially been left to raise himself emotionally and the resigned reframing of that as 'and maybe that is a good thing!' is part of the olive branch they extend to each other towards the end... will my sadness never end)

- most of all it's so heartbreaking to me that qui-gon seemingly never understands just how much obi-wan as a person is rooted deeply in shame. I don't think that's a feeling that's particularly prevalent in qui-gon's own inner world so he doesn't recognize how central it is in obi-wan's psychology and completely misunderstands and misaligns with him again and again and again and then gets annoyed with obi-wan for that, thus making the shame even deeper. doubly painful because he does see the way rael lives so much of his life out of shame now and feels sad about it, but can't see the way he's contributing to obi-wan doing so. this is what fucks me up so bad about the generational trauma in star wars -- no one here meant to be cruel. for all his faults I do think qui-gon does love obi-wan and doesn't mean to hurt him. but the original sin of the prequels as far as I'm concerned is qui-gon tenderly drying away obi-wan's tears as he's dying even while completely failing to see him, his eyes too fixed on anakin's future to actually be with obi-wan, who's there right now and needs him.

these are simply very different people trying and failing to understand each other, and the harm that can still happen in that… 'if you love me, you don't love me in a way I understand', all the way through the disaster line, even when the love is there, it is there, that’s what hurts the most, it just doesn’t reach where it’s needed, there’s a connection that doesn’t happen. (ironically I think ahsoka doesn't doubt that anakin loves her, it's just uh everything else that went down. so y'know family curse broken! new even more fucked up curse achieved now with more child murder. I mean there already was some child murder in this family but anakin upped the game exponentially) 

- a lil guy who's basically tarzan except the gorillas are replaced with protocol droids and then he becomes a jewel thief is one of the funniest star wars concepts I've ever heard and I hope pax and rahara get to pop up in more star wars media, they’re great fun. (also an idea I think would be super fun to make a character/campaign around in Edge of the Empire or something, everyone playing different droids and then one person being robo-parented lol) 

- was not prepared to have rael posit a theory of what essentially seems to be the jedi version of predestination in his despair, but I do love to see it haha. especially interesting since he, qui-gon and dooku must be among the people alive who've studied the prophecies in most depth, and they've all reached different conclusions -- dooku decides to join the war of light and dark on the side of dark for some reason, qui-gon (possibly the stubbornest fucker the jedi order ever produced) 'turns towards the light not to win some great cosmic game, but because it is the light', and rael in the middle falls into the depressed apathy of 'it doesn't matter what we do here, the outcome is already decided; for there to be true balance there has to be as much dark as light in the world so we're fucked'. but in the end he does take qui-gon's words to heart and turns towards the light rather than accepting dooku's offer, even if he might not believe it makes a difference in the long run. man I love rael. hobo-looking sonofabitch living in a castle for eight years will just suddenly fling out some deep jedi theology huh

- master rael 'I'm gonna make up for the big terrible mistake I made on accident by making an even bigger more premeditated mistake on purpose' averross (affectionate)

- the added layer to dooku’s fascination with prophecy after reading dooku: jedi lost — that his best friend in the world was a seer who couldn’t turn it off and it destroyed him……….. dooku you’re not getting him back if you just understand what he saw you know that right

- the more I read of master and apprentice the more I realize that the reason yoda and qui-gon don't get along is that they're two of the judgiest bitches the jedi order ever produced. They’re like two cats scowling judgmentally at each other from opposite sides of the room pretending to live and let live while going ‘you’re wrong tho’ internally. 

- I dunk on him constantly (not entirely without affection, however grudging), but Qui-Gon is genuinely a really interesting character. He’s so… he’s so. He’s infuriating but he’s infuriating in an equidistant sort of way. You feel me. He’s pissing everyone off equally and he just doesn’t care because again, he’s the stubbornest judgiest bitch around and thinks he’s right all the time. I would be free to just enjoy his ornery ‘no actually I’m right about this’ ass and the chaos he wreaks so much more if Obi-Wan didn’t have to live with the emotional consequences of it lol. 

- poor rael closing in on fifty with his puriteen middle-aged little brother clutching pearls about his getting laid once in a blue moon fhdskjahfas. again a really interesting insight into different ways of interpreting the jedi code, though, I love seeing the jedi not be an ideological monolith. to be fair to rael, having sex sometimes does seem to be the indulgence he has that causes the least conflict with his principles or loyalties so you know what honestly force speed you my friend why not. (and then there's qui-gon 'noooo sex is only okay if you're In Love (implied: like I was)!!!' jinn lmao. I wonder what he'd think of anakin and padme's relationship, would that pass the 'being sufficiently purely in love' test for him) I do like how consistently it’s shown that rael doesn’t mean to be cruel or unkind in anything he says, he always notices something landing too close to home and then pulls carefully back from it instead of pushing on. He seems to be the emotional intelligence powerhouse in this lineage (as long as he doesn’t have his feelings too tangled up in something, at least). 

Dooku: jedi lost also shows us that dooku absolutely knows rael is out there in the galaxy laying pipe and is, at worst, softly amused by it. So in this little family unit it’s only qui-gon losing his mind over it fjsdkafa I’m so used to having qui-gon be the wild card maverick compared to obi-wan ‘*in tears* but what are the RULES master’ kenobi, it’s so fucking funny that within the context that raised him he’s the stick in the mud 

I guess. the book also had a plot and it was not bad! some interesting insights about how the republic interacted with the big corporations and just how fucked everything already was by this point. I'm a pretty character-driven reader so that's what sticks with me for the most part

- obi-wan’s big teenage rebellion here being that sometimes. Occasionally. When he really loses his temper and gets hot under the collar. He’ll say something slightly passive aggressive out loud instead of keeping it contained inside his head. And qui-gon still can’t handle that gracefully AT ALL he snaps right back fdjskfhas. (I guess he also snitches on qui-gon to the council but well, you know, qui-gon was breaking republic law pretty brazenly at that point I think that moves beyond teenage angst and into ‘...master that’s a wholeass felony’ territory). Obi-Wan does go for a couple of low blows, but like. Nothing that’s not actually true, is the thing. And mostly he blames himself for not being good enough, because surely if he were qui gon wouldn’t treat him like this. Augh. hngh. Pain. suffering. 

- I am not one of the people who think everything would have automatically been just hunky-dory if only qui-gon lived and could have been anakin's master (in fact I would have given it a 50/50 chance of going exponentially worse way faster; being more similar as people is not always a guarantee that a relationship will go smoother and qui-gon is an incredibly difficult man to be close to for any length of time), but the way this book basically presents how the dynamic between dooku, rael and qui-gon could have gone on in the next generation too... it would have been incredibly unfair to obi-wan (as always I think that's just an universal constant lmao) but I think the odds of it turning out okay would have been better if you had him in the mix to run crisis control for both qui-gon and anakin, as he does for each of them individually as best he can anyway. at least he could have been free to be anakin's brother and friend purely in that scenario, without all the added mess of grief and having to take on a parental role there so young. he does basically fill that role in ahsoka's apprenticeship, after all.

- qui-gon finally hugging rael before he leaves the planet (and especially since when they were younger he wanted to, but held himself back from it)... that's still his big brother even with all the shit that's happened since ;_____; when someone teaches you how to swim (literally and symbolically) that shit stays with you I suppose

Relatedly: DOOKU getting hugged, and gladly. What the fuck. Are you all seeing this shit. I’m gonna cry or laugh I’m not sure which one why am I emotionally invested in the galaxy's most problematic grandpa now this sucks

[antianakin]

@theneutralmime

Yes, I do. I think that Palpatine spends probably most of the ten year gap between AOTC and ROTS working to poison Anakin against the Jedi, encouraging Anakin's belief in his own superiority, and worsening Anakin's emotional instability. When the opportunity to throw Padme back into the mix comes up, he obviously takes it and then continues to take advantage of how that relationship developed, but I don't think he's COUNTING on that as a way to turn Anakin totally dark. Palpatine doesn't work that way all the time. SOME of his plans involve thinking ten steps ahead, making plans that will be years in the making, but many of them involve just being able to switch tactics on a dime to take advantage of a situation that presents itself.

Before Padme comes back into the equation, I think the two most obvious people that Palpatine would've been planning to use would be Shmi and Obi-Wan. He's clearly trying to drive a wedge between Anakin and Obi-Wan, but he's smart enough to be able to tell how much Anakin does care about Obi-Wan and know that that's something he could use to push Anakin closer to darkness. And he DOES take advantage of what happens to Shmi. If you take the rumor about an early draft of the script for ROTS as canon, then Palpatine was actually behind the Tuskens capturing and killing Shmi, so he actually DOES use Shmi to push Anakin closer to darkness. We also see Palpatine intentionally using the war itself to push Anakin into darkness.

Padme is a really convenient tool for him to use when she comes along, but he would never have planned to use her against Anakin until he had the opportunity to throw them back in each others' paths and see what happened. He couldn't have guaranteed that Padme would actually enter into a relationship with Anakin and he has exactly nothing to do with Padme's eventual choice, she makes that bad decision all on her own.

So yes, I think Anakin would absolutely still have turned against the Jedi if Padme weren't in the picture. I don't think it would've looked EXACTLY the same, he probably would've had to use some different strategies to get Anakin to agree to join the Sith, but it would've happened. Palpatine is too good at manipulating situations to his advantage on the fly and he has his hooks too far into Anakin already by AOTC for him not to be able to ensure that result regardless of whether he could use Padme or not.

[david-talks-sw]

"Does it make sense?"

I think, ultimately, the thing that it comes down to for why I just can't see "the Jedi are intentionally written as dogmatic/dispassionate" or "Obi-Wan failed Anakin" or "the Jedi brought their own downfall" reads as valid anymore is because... it makes no sense that George Lucas - of all people - would write that.

Like, this is the guy who preaches the same lessons and philosophies that the Jedi do in the Prequels, every chance he gets (sometimes going all the way back to American Graffiti).

So ask yourself:

Does it make sense that he would intentionally make the characters to whom he gave his own values "dogmatic"?

He's a self-proclaimed "methodist-Buddhist". The Jedi are based on Buddhist monks.

Does it make sense that the buddhist would write a story about space-buddhists being "emotionless", "devoid of compassion" and "at fault for their own genocide"?

Lucas had an apprenticeship, that turned into a friendly/brotherly bond with his mentor Francis Ford Coppola. Their personalities were completely opposite (Coppola was more outgoing, George was more prudent) but they worked in sync, they completed each other.

Do you really think that this guy's intended narrative would be that "Qui-Gon would've been better-suited for Anakin as a teacher than Obi-Wan because the latter was prudent/strict and too different from the more passionate Anakin"?

George lays Anakin's downfall on Anakin's shoulders almost every time he talks about it. It's a corruption that was caused from within, he would be able to love without getting attached if he had joined the Jedi at an earlier age, but he didn't so his attachment and greed results in his turn to the Dark Side.

So does it make sense that Lucas' narrative would be that "the Jedi (aka EXTERNAL forces) pushed, denied and failed Anakin that they caused him to turn" instead of "it was Anakin's own fault because he wasn't able to let go"?

He has said multiple times that, aside from Anakin's downfall, the Prequels center on the Republic's downfall, never mentioned the Jedi once when describing what the Prequels are about.

If the Prequels were actually about "the fall of the Jedi and how they lost their way", wouldn't he have brought it up once? And would he really have focused so much on the Senate and politics rather than adding more development to characters like Mace and Yoda?

I think the answer to all of these is "no".

Here's one more: Lucas stated so many times that this was a fairy tale, that all six Star Wars movies are meant for kids. The situation of the Prequels is more complex than the one in the Original Trilogy, but before, during and after the Prequels Lucas confirmed that the Star Wars morality is binary, it is black and white, good vs bad.

Would he really intentionally make the Prequels this subversive story wherein "actually, if you stop and think about it, the good guys are really the bad guys"?

Or is it just that:

We live in a time where movie audiences expect the "good guy" to be individualistic, flawed and non-conformist, and the Jedi are a community of nigh-incorruptible champions of good who've already completed their character arcs.

So the adults (aka not the target audience) who watched the Prequels at the time were turned off by these characters who they perceived as "holier than thou", having been conditioned by the times they lived in to think that there are skeletons in "Mr. Perfect's" closet.

Thus, they retconned the films (via comics, books, games and episodes) so that they could enjoy the Prequels more, and did so by:

injecting more realistic "gray morality" themes into the films and

projecting an oppressive "boys don't cry" philosophy onto the Jedi.

For lack of a better metaphor, "they put a skeleton in Mr. Perfect's closet so that they could finally find his existence bearable, and keep bringing up that skeleton to this day."