#not gonna maintag muse

[transbeamrooikat]

can't say if the influence is bad or good but its definitely happening (listening 2 Origins of Symmetry 4 the first time 4 phannie reasons)

[annahanover]

i look at the spies are forever tag and i see post after post about curt and owen, and it gets so frustrating sometimes. i look at the ao3 tag and find pages and pages and pages about them, and barely a fraction of that for the other characters. analysis post after analysis post about owen carvour, but i make a post about tatiana, and it somehow comes back to curtwen, despite me never even mentioning owen in the post.

curtwen as a ship is roughly 87% of the spies tag. curt is 90%, owen is 88%. tatiana is 26%, barb is 20%. so!

and of course curt will be the most popular, he's the main character! but im more than a little annoyed, because there is a drastic difference between the percentage of fics with curt and owen, and the ones with tatiana and/or barb.

all that just to say, lets pay more attention to the other characters in spies, yeah? yeah.

[ourlordapollo]

Uh oh girl my Kristoph Gavin musings are calcifying into unshakable headcanons

Have we already talked about his pathological need for validation. Can we. Can we talk about it again.

Obviously this is all speculation and knowing the writers, the Gavins probably have some fucked up supernatural backstory and dead parents, but the writers aren't here right now. *locks the doors*

Anyway, for the sake of minimizing stupid ppl yelling at me (assuming I'm brave enough to maintag this instead of letting it rot in obscurity, unrebloggable), please mentally insert "IN MY OPINION" before every statement I make

This is a classic case of choosing a conclusion and retrofitting evidence to support said conclusion but. I'm allowed to do that. I'm not turning this into Professor Fandom for a special grade in "FAN 485: Feverishly Justifying Your Own Bullshit."

Anyway.

Let's recontextualize Kristoph's actions using the following framework:

Kristoph Gavin is a sad little boy in a man's suit, desperate for the validation of everyone around him to the point that he would do anything to get it.

1. Phoenix

A lot of people (alright, haters. A lot of haters. You made me talk like Donald Trump. Are you happy now). *ahem*

A lot of haters like to paint this move as stupid like it's some kind of "gotcha".

"What move?"

The dual move of voting in Phoenix's favor and choosing to befriend him.

Here's the thing.

Of course it's fucking stupid. We're not looking at the pinnacle of criminal masterminds here

Why did he do that? The psychosexual need to force Phoenix to submit? (Actually wait keep talking I want to hear this—) Paranoia? By this point in the timeline, he's already shown a willingness to commit murder, so why not just kill Phoenix?

Because (say it with me now):

Kristoph Gavin is a sad little boy in a man's suit, desperate for the validation of everyone around him to the point that he would do anything to get it.

He's not some wannabe criminal mastermind.

He wants to be Phoenix's savior. He wants to be the only thing Phoenix has. He needs to be the sole recipient of Phoenix's gratitude and admiration. Because he's better than Phoenix, dammit! Of course he's better than Phoenix. Law is a meritocracy, he's got money, he's got white loafers for fuck's sake, he wins trials by working really goddamn hard because being a lawyer is hard for everyone, you don't just stumble ass-backwards into the courtroom and win every case by stuttering and sweating and stalling so OBVIOUSLY KRISTOPH GAVIN IS BETTER THAN PHOENIX WRIGHT! SAY IT! SAY IT! Look! Look at them together! Look who's still a lawyer and who's an evidence-forging fraud! Look how nice Kristoph looks next to this sad burnout! Look! LOOK AT HOW MUCH BETTER HE IS!

Do you see what I'm getting at here.

Obviously on some level he knows and fears that Phoenix really is better than him, and that matters, so he he really really needs Phoenix's validation

And lbr, he probably does have a deep psychosexual obsession with the idea of forcing Phoenix to submit to him

2. Forging evidence

I'm not gonna speculate on Kristoph's lawyering skills here. Really, I'm not. However I'd be cautious about making the argument that he forged evidence solely because he thought Zak was guilty and he reeeaally wanted to win. We saw that it was an extremely tricky case and that Zak's innocence would have been very difficult to prove. It's entirely possible Kristoph believed in Zak's innocence but didn't think he'd be able to prove it without cheating.

That being said, I don't think it matters.

It matters that the case was complicated, but it doesn't matter whether Zak was innocent or guilty or a secret third thing, because Kristoph would have cheated regardless becaaauuuuse

Say it with meeee...

Kristoph Gavin is a sad little boy in a man's suit, desperate for the validation of everyone around him to the point that he would do anything to get it.

He was up against a fucking rockstar. A famous, hotshot, cocky, little upstart rockstar. A young prodigy. A fucking teenager. It didn't matter one bit that they just so happened to be related. Or did it.

Of course he needed to win.

(If you want to get really headcanony with it, which I do, I think the Gavin parents definitely raised their kids with an extreme superiority complex, setting them apart from their peers by straight-up telling them "you are better than they are. You are not like them."

Klavier goes on to prove them right by becoming internationally famous and beloved and Kristoph. Well, Kristoph is, uh. Well, he's a pretty good lawyer. Got his own little office and everything. And then Klavier comes into his domain as a cocky lil teenager with a HUGE, high-profile case and here is Kristoph's chance to demonstrate to the world what he already knows: that he's special too. That he's special. Dammit. Why can't anyone else see that.)

And then Zak takes that away from him. And gives it to Phoenix.

Unforgivable.

3. Apollo & Vongole

Sorry for putting Apollo in the same category as a literal dog but. That's kind of point here.

I've seen ppl theorizing that, although Kristoph seems like a stereotypical cat person, he got a dog (specifically a golden retriever) out of a sense of paranoia bc!! That's normal! Normal people have dogs!!! Wealthy people have purebred golden retrievers!!! I am so normal and wealthy, look at my very average typical status symbol dog!

I humbly disagree. Even the Wiki seems to point to paranoia as Kristoph's chief, driving factor, but I.

Well.

I humbly disagree. Let's not circle back around to this; I'm not trying to discount anyone else's headcanons.

Anyway.

Why a dog and not a cat?

Because cats have a reputation for independence, for coming and going as they please, for not needing you. "Dog," meanwhile, persists as a synonym for "loyal." To call someone a dog implies ultimate trust, ultimate submission, to someone higher than them. To their master.

Now.

Why hire Apollo, specifically, an orphan with few friends or connections and a fuckload of trauma?

Why mentor Apollo? Why adopt a dog? (Why befriend Phoenix?)

The answer is the same:

He needs people to depend on him. He needs others to view him as a kind, benevolent benefactor. He needs their praise, their admiration. He needs people to tell him he's special and he needs other people to see those people telling him he's special and also believe he's special and then he needs additional people to talk to those people and hear about how special he is, he needs the whole wide fucking world to say that KRISTOPH GAVIN IS SPECIAL!!!!

(Although. Maybe he just likes dogs. Not everything has to have a shady ulterior motive. People don't fit neatly into your preconceived categories of "good" and "bad." Maybe he's a murderer who loves dogs and genuinely thinks of Vongole as his best friend. Maybe he saw promise in Apollo and genuinely likes the guy. Did you ever think about that.

Or maybe. It's both. Two things can be true simultaneously and people, both fictional and real, contain multitudes and contradictions we could never hope to understand.)

4. Murdering a guy with a wine bottle, Psyche Locks

I'm gonna be so so real with you, I don't think even Kristoph knows why he did that. I think he blacked out. I think he was a lil drunk ("grape juice" my ass), I think paranoia and fury, the fear and resentment of 7 long, long years, collided like atoms in his brain and fucking exploded I think the bottle was cool in his hand I think his arm hurt I think he felt the impact all the way up his elbow I think the cards were red I think the cards were blue I think he saw Phoenix Wright's face dripping blood I think he blinked I think he heard Vera Misham calling him "angel" I think he watched himself do it from behind his own back

Do you understand.

To even begin unpacking why he did that, he'd have to address that nagging fear that maybe he's not special, that maybe he's just some guy, that Phoenix Wright is special and Gramarye was right in choosing him over Kristoph that Gramarye was justified in taking away Kristoph's shot at admiration and acclaim and Kristoph killed him out of revenge because he couldn't handle the truth that he's not special he's not special he's not special. Phoenix Wright is special and Klavier Gavin is special and now even Apollo Justice is turning out to be special and Kristoph Gavin is an okay-ish lawyer who sucks at poker and talks way too fucking much. That he committed so many monstrous acts and ruined his own life out of the perverse desire to be loved by others because he doesn't. love. himself.

(I call these "load-bearing neuroses" because if you knock one pillar down, the whole structure goes down with it.)

5. Vera Misham

So I think Kristoph is good with kids because he was, for the most part, old enough to be a Small Person when Klavier was born and because I don't think he gets off on exercising that brutal, domineering kind of power over the powerless. I don't think outward cruelty appeals to him.

Why?

Well...

Kristoph Gavin is a sad little boy in a man's suit, desperate for the validation of everyone around him to the point that he would do anything to get it.

Fear and deference are not validation. People talk badly about you and think badly about you when you're a bully. He charmed Vera instead of threatening her because he needed her to like him. He needed Drew to like him. Good god, he needs everyone to like him so much. Talk about him when he's not in the room and tell him what you said. Write him a letter of recommendation and let him read the contents. Sing his praises at your local bar, then send him a recording.

6. "Keep the riff-raff out!"

Ohhh, buddyyyy :( You said the quiet part out loud

Because law is a meritocracy. Because Kristoph Gavin is kind of a big deal. People know him. He's very important. He has many leather-bound books and his apartment smells of rich mahogany.

Only special people are able to become lawyers. And Kristoph is such a special, special boy. He's so special that he got Phoenix disbarred. He's so special that he helped Klavier attain acclaim as a prosecutor. He's so so so special.

But when a group of select people are special, it means that there's another group. The un-special group. The group that Kristoph is so afraid that he's a part of.

By admitting that they exist, that he believes that other people are beneath him, he's asserting his belief in his own inherent superiority one final, desperate time. He's clinging to it so hard his fingertips are cracking the marble. He's starting to bleed. It's starting to hurt.

Before Phoenix, Klavier, and Apollo fucking spin-kick the pillars propping up his self-identity, toppling them and sending the foundation of Kristoph Gavin collapsing into jagged pieces on the floor of his psyche.

—

Personal note but everyone seems to be in agreement that Kristoph's Psyche Locks fuckin. shattered into little bitty pieces during that scene. Don't you think that hurt? Don't you think that hurt like fucking hell? When you break [REDACTED]'s Black Psyche locks in DD, they cry out in pain several times and imply that their head hurts. And that was Phoenix doing it right that time! So I say again:

Don't you think that hurt?

[essektheylyss]

which character, pc or npc or both, has committed the most war crimes (that we know of) and what were they? alternatively/additionally, who besides essek has committed the most "war crimes" that are not actually war crimes?

For your first question, arguably the person who has committed the most war crimes is Lythir, considering he attacked the Nein, who were, in the situation of the Xhorhas border skirmish, I believe identified as noncombatants, if I remember correctly (and they certainly were not dressed like Empire military)—and then later turned those noncombatants over to the court, which, dick move, man. However, the issue with this argument is the question of, when it comes to adventurers in the context of a war that they are not fighting in, do they count as noncombatants? It’s funny because, with the Nein, with the exception of Yasha and maybe Veth, though I do not know how she carries her crossbow, most of them do not openly carry things that are explicitly weapons (under the argument that a staff can be an innocuous item, especially while traveling). So, you know, jury’s out, but you can make the argument.

Alternatively, you could next make the argument for Ludinus Da’leth—so the beacon theft can actually be considered a war crime under one specific context, but only from the Assembly’s side. This context is the idea of violating a nation’s sovereignty, which its citizens are a part of, and if you consider the fact that there were likely consecuted souls in the beacons, you just kidnapped a lot of Dynasty citizens. Crucially, this rests solely with Ludinus, as it seems to have been primarily orchestrated by him on the Empire side, because it’s a hard sell that a citizen of the nation whose sovereignty is being violated can be the person violating that sovereignty. (However, Essek can of course be charged with espionage, sedition, and treason. And admittedly it’s not impossible.) This also, however, relies on the beacon theft to count as a violation of sovereignty, and that is also not a clear cut question—I’ve actually been thinking about it for months lol.

And for the second question, the person who has committed the most war crimes that aren’t actually war crimes is Trent Ikithon. Strictly speaking, he is not actually training child soldiers, as they are adults by the time they are sent into the field, though... you do get into murky territory with their training. Especially because, quite frankly, I don’t believe that the people they were training on were all criminals, but that is more of just orchestrating assault and murder than a war crime.

Also, to be very clear here, based on how rules of engagement tend to play out between both campaigns, I am considering torture a shitty thing to do, and not ethical by any means, but not inherently a war crime.