#not everyone you personaly duslike is homophobic or ableis

[1337wtfomgbbq]

Psychic and whatever the fuck Azazel did to Sam are not the fucking same full stop.

Missouri and Pamela are clearly not on the same level as Sam.

"That's my man"??? What fucking hell else was he supposed to say?? The shtriga episode happened aroun 1989, before this whole "he, she, they/them, spider, unicorn" bullshit. Of course he would say "that's my man"!!!

Oh my god, you are dense as all fuck. Of course John told Dean he'd possibly have to kill Sam.

They have no idea about the extend of Sam's powers and as we know from comics, movies and human fucking history power is very easily corruptable. Not to mention that it's been the literal prince of fucking hell that gave Sam his powers. They aren't meant for good.

We don't know how much of the plan John knew, but we know he knew Azazel is powerfull as fuck and has a gameplan, that involves even more children than just Sam.

John is a soldier, he knows that sacrifices have to be made in war. And yes, they were literally at war. And not only in John's mind as it later turns out.

"Like… holy fuck. There is literally no way I can watch this & not believe that his characterization was not 100% intentional with him being set up as a bad person & his actions as condemnable. It’s just not narratively possible."

At least you admit that you completely lack the cognitive ability to understand the nuance of John's character. It was season 1 and 2, they were still on their A-game back then, and it was before yall started collectively sniffing paint.

"So to anyone who would argue “well it’s not the same because John had a good reason to be afraid of Sam” - shut the fuck up, because no, he didn’t."

No we will not shut up you fucking doughnut. Supernatural and the real world are not the same. I know it's hard to grasp that when you've been sniffing glue.

Let me try and make it underatandable for you, dumb ass. You know the movie BrightBurn?? Watch the trailer. John literally had no idea how far Sam's powers would reach.

"Sam hadn’t hurt anyone. He wasn’t doing anything worth killing him over. He was a good kid who was hurt by someone outside his control & yet he only started doing anything that was truly wrong when he was pushed to it by circumstances that were again, beyond his control, & only then bc he was trying to do what was right!!"

You are so close to grasping it and yet you don't, it's amazing. People: this is was sniffing paint and social justice will do to you.

This was a wild ride. It's amazing how one can be this close to getting it, and still don't get it.

Interpretation of a character my ass at this point. Nowhere in canon does John state that he hates gay people. Nowhere in canon does John, or anyone, state that he hates disabled people.

Kindly, morons spew your shit in the hate tag. You are in the general John tag and I warned you, we aren't being friendly anymore.

Jesus, the fluoride in the water is not only turning the frogs gay it's making people stupid.

Ok, I’m about to go off on a GIANT rant about a specific issue I have with John Winchester & how the show intentionally & canonically portrays him as an ableist, homophobic asshole through his portrayal by JDM, so buckle up.

For the record, this is something I’ve always believed, but after listening to podcast episodes from @otrsupernatural & Carrying Wayward, one super clear example of why has just snapped into place & I feel compelled to share it.

So I want to start by noting a couple things that stand out. First & foremost, I think JDM is an incredible actor & I think he brings his A game with his portrayal of John. John Winchester is undeniably an asshole, & yet JDM balances that so well against the idea of loving parent, to not only make the character more realistic, but also to give real authenticity & depth to the trauma his children experienced at his hands & answer why they act the way they do in regards to him as their parent.

John is someone who, on the surface, appears to be a loving and concerned father, who makes mistakes, but does so because he’s in shitty circumstances & doesn’t have a lot of options or has his own trauma to battle that limits the choices he believes he has.

However, the show also gives us other content that proves there is more to John than that caring but broken man from as early as S1 & into the beginning of S2, & this content screams the truth of his ableism & homophobia, & gives some really strong evidence as to why these are two of the primary struggles of his children through the end of the series.

To explain, we 1st have to look at characters from earlier in S1. In 1x10, Asylum, we are introduced to Dr. Ellicott. He is shown to be someone who is canonically ableist to people with MHI. He sees them as less human, he does unethical experiments on them, he tortures them, just, lots of gross stuff there. On top of that, we see him as a ghost using what appears to be electrical shocks to Sam & Dean to possess & harm them, which resembles electroshock. There are also strong echoes of conversion therapy in this episode.

After this, we have 1x12, Faith, where Sue Ann is using dark magic to attack & murder people she hates, which specifically includes a woman who was pro choice & a gay man. This not only shows that she was homophobic, but that she condemned sexual freedom & bodily autonomy for women as well, which is in relation to homophobia, as well as deeply rooted in misogyny.

So essentially, we are shown a doctor who tries to force people to be less mentally ill or queer by “curing” them, & then a woman who took it a step further & murdered them to “cleanse” the town. We are given two different, but very interwoven ways with which society has tried to get rid of queers & disabled people, & it’s not subtext, it’s literally stated.

Now, in the show, both Dr. Ellicott & Sue Ann are the villains, & while the show demonstrates their ableism & homophobia, it also clearly condemns them for those actions. They are both dead/gone by the end of the episode & their actions are shown as evil. This is SO important, especially for a show that has failed in other episodes to truly state what exactly is the problematic action in the episode (looking at you, Bugs & Route 666).

That said, if Dr. Ellicott & Sue Ann are villains, then we must also extrapolate that ableism & homophobia are intentionally being written as evil in the show, so other characters who demonstrate these actions are also bad. (Yes, I know I’m being super redundant right now, but I just want to be really damn clear on this to demonstrate why I believe John’s characterization is intentional).

Now, in 1x21, John finally “learns” about Sam’s psychic abilities, & I say that in quotes bc there’s reason to believe he knew about it already from Missouri & was just in denial until confronted with the evidence, at which point he has a very strong reaction. As Ali pointed out, it’s interesting that he has such a strong negative reaction, as he clearly doesn’t have an issue with Missouri as a psychic, & yet he’s upset about Sam being one. He demonstrates the mindset of “othering” people outside of his family, which is a common treatment of both people w/ MHI & queer people - the mentality that “those people” are fine in general, but “not my son/daughter/family/me”.

So here in that episode, we are already getting an attitude from him that clearly parallels ableism & homophobia, & that is on top of other comments he made that are clearly rooted in misogyny, like his “that’s my man” to Dean in the flashback in Something Wicked This Way Comes (1x18).

THEN - the final nail in the coffin is the “secret” he tells Dean before he dies in 2x1; that Dean needs to either save Sam or stop him. By now it’s crystal clear he views Sam as something “other”, something not fully human, & his response? It’s literally “cure or cleanse”. Either make him “normal” or get rid of him.

To repeat, John LITERALLY uses ableist & homophobic language & tactics towards him son because he is different, & also tries to force Dean to do the same, passing on that legacy, by trying to erase anything about Sam thats not his personal definition of “normal”, all out of FEAR of who his son is & what he might do.

And the show CONDEMNS this behavior from the very beginning, even before we ever see him act this way!! They make it clear that ableism & homophobia are BAD, show John act that way, & then condemn him AGAIN when Dean tells Sam & it is made clear to the audience that what John asked of him was wrong.

Like… holy fuck. There is literally no way I can watch this & not believe that his characterization was not 100% intentional with him being set up as a bad person & his actions as condemnable. It’s just not narratively possible. John Winchester was intentionally written to be an asshole & we are supposed to see him as one, & any love we see from him is only meant to validate the complicated feelings Sam & Dean have towards him, not undermine the knowledge that he is a bad person. It’s literally in the text.

*Edit - Im adding a point here, since it’s been brought to my attention. John’s concern about Sam being infected with demon blood & possibly corrupted does not detract from the parallel being made between his actions & those of IRL people who are homophobic or ableist. In fact, this is another argument for that in interpretation, & here is why -

For literal thousands of years, mental illness has been viewed as demonic. People w/ MHI were thought to be possessed, evil incarnations, or even just sinfully corrupt & given to wickedness. People w/ physical disabilities were believed to be punished for moral failings, not faithful enough, etc, etc. Queer people were believed to be sexually deviant, witches, destroyers of families, etc.

These beliefs carry across many religions, but especially Christianity, & are present even today in some more extreme sects. And the people that believed these things? Well many of them were parents who “loved” their child & were trying to protect them from evil by purifying them. They too believed they had valid fears & good reasons to torture, maim, & even kill their children.

So to anyone who would argue “well it’s not the same because John had a good reason to be afraid of Sam” - shut the fuck up, because no, he didn’t.

Sam hadn’t hurt anyone. He wasn’t doing anything worth killing him over. He was a good kid who was hurt by someone outside his control & yet he only started doing anything that was truly wrong when he was pushed to it by circumstances that were again, beyond his control, & only then bc he was trying to do what was right!!

Anyone would do that, not just a kid w/ some demon blood powers. So let’s not act like he was inherently dangerous just BC he was different, bc guess what? That’s part of that mindset too. Sam was a good fucking person & John seeing him as less was John’s failing, not Sam’s.