#not elsanna related

[inquisitor-julia]

Starting the very long road to replaying and rereading all of the Dragon Age content in prep for DA4's *eventual* release and.......Cousland origin has me fucked up again 😭😭😭

[ingridverse]

I think that years ago the elsanna community missed an opportunity. We had "elsanna" and "snow sisters" to distinguish between Elsa/Anna vs Elsa& Anna. But we didn't have a simple, distinct tag that distinguished between "elsanna (related)" and "elsanna (unrelated au)".

[tfwyouloveher2]

/r9k/Elsa Ten Years Later: A Retrospective

Ten years ago today, on July 22, 2014, r9kElsa is Suffering was completed.

If you're reading this, you probably already know the gravity of that event. Let's talk about it anyway :)

r9kElsa is Suffering was one of the earliest fan fiction works written for Frozen, its first chapter published only a few weeks after the movie's release, and was decidedly the most influential.

It was the first widely-read modern-alternate-universe take on Elsa's and Anna's characters, and the way it painted their relationship into a reluctant and tragic romance almost singlehandedly inspired the wider Elsanna ship.

Despite its legacy, it's not the most practiced prose, nor is the plot meticulously planned.

So why did it leave such a mark on its audience? And how was it conceived?

Come with me back to 2013 and we'll find out.

A History

Frozen was released on November 27, 2013, to unexpected critical acclaim and unprecedented box office success.

The internet was quickly buzzing with thoughts about it. A hundred communities in the far-flung reaches of a simpler Web gathered in their respective forums to articulate what the movie meant to them.

Within a few days, a few thoughts began to coalesce in many different places at once: these characters are important to us. They're relatable. They're inspiring.

And, in some strange new way, the scattered diaspora found that the message had spoken to their hearts: love is stronger than fear. There is hope.

The first Frozen fan fiction to gain any traction was "Songs of Ice and Snow", published on November 23 by a lucky author with the privilege of seeing a pre-screening of the movie. It would go on to reach almost 140,000 words over the next several months, and explored the characters in their canon environment, written to take place immediately after the events of the movie.

Soon though, another fic was written with a bold twist: For the First Time was published on December 3, and suggested something previously unexplored: a romantic angle to the sisters' relationship. Niche artists and shitposters had already asserted the notion, but this very early work fleshed out the idea into something surprisingly charming. If love is an open door, then For the First Time opened it just a crack, and readers everywhere were tempted by the glow from beyond.

One specific forum that was quick to latch on to the hard-to-swallow concept was /frz/, a thread on 4chan's /co/ dedicated to Frozen. The trolling effortlessly began to morph into ironic, then tongue-in-cheek, and finally occasionally genuine consideration of what this romance would mean. The trolling never stopped, of course; but in the margins, there was a growing understanding and even affection for this relationship. Why?

Like so much well-loved fiction, it was because people saw themselves in it.

In Elsa, some saw a shut-in who just didn't want to be ostracized anymore. Some saw a dutiful figure who couldn't allow herself to be happy.

In Anna, some saw a socially awkward romantic, starving for affection and acceptance. Others saw an endlessly forgiving empath.

And in both, they saw someone who might understand them.

And in that moment, they fell victim to the fantasy: that two people could be so different and yet could love each other so unreservedly. That two people could understand each other's failings and doubts and grief, that they could be so wounded by each other, and at the end of it all, still sacrifice everything for the other.

In a world of cynicism and transactional relationships, it turns out that these sisters bound by blood scratch an itch: a need to be accepted despite all our flaws. And in some corners of the internet, there grew an quiet desire to be loved like that.

It was in this context that an anonymous /co/ reader, usually only browsing the board for DC comics, began to engage with /frz/. She hadn't ever written fiction before, but at the moment unemployed, was sucked in by the concepts being set forth. She wrote a first chapter that was an exceptional attention grabber, starting with the line "She heard the crossbow bolt thud into her shoulder before she felt it." Many readers will recognize that opening line immediately from Frozen Fractals. The first chapter was initially published in a pastebin for /frz/ to read, on December 6, with promises of violence, cuteness, and sex. Despite very little initial response, the anon is fully engrossed in her work, and posts the next few chapters in the following two days.

Over the next couple weeks, Frozen Fractals becomes the foremost image of the romantic portrayal of the sisters. The writing style is unpracticed, the character choices sometimes stretch disbelief, and the story is occasionally brutal; and yet, the work is outstanding.

The critical response is enormously positive, even reaching the point of other fiction authors in /frz/ asking the author -- having at this point earned the nickname "Fractals" or "Frac" -- for writing tips and constructive criticism. Additionally though, there are some constructive criticisms offered back, which undoubtedly aided Frac's later work.

During this same period, the image of Elsa being a broken, self-doubting recluse, while Anna waits determinedly for her to open her door to the world, begins to take a more distinct shape in the /frz/ threads.

Anons start to see Elsa as one of them.

And so it began, slowly at first. But over the next couple weeks, this idea started taking center stage in threads.

And then, the first greentext from the character of /r9k/Elsa:

There grew a consensus, a common understanding of who this persona was.

It was initially tongue-in-cheek. But later, like Elsa's monster, it was often the person that we most fear to be.

And the storm raged on.

Then, the next day, a turning point is reached: a greentext that realizes the core of the character. These 12 lines precipitated years of community fixation and the story that would come of her.

And the rest is history.

Over the next few days, an onslaught of r9kElsa greentexts are posted. For a short while, threads are overwhelmed with discussion of the character. People can't stop talking about it.

Some suggest temporarily banning it from threads so as to stop derailing every discussion.

Despite the proposed ban, some discussion continues behind spoiler tags. Frac is wrapping up Frozen Fractals and becoming increasingly engrossed in the character.

Then, finally, on the Winter Solstice 2013, Elsa's first birthday, tfw She Loves You is posted on Fictionpress.

Frac posts it under an alias in an ultimately-doomed effort to fly under the radar.

Over the next few days, up to and through Christmas 2013, Frac cannot stop writing. She writes ELEVEN CHAPTERS in four days. The rest of /frz/ is caught up in the r9k storm right along with her.

And then, there's a pause. A couple days go by without update. Finally, a few days later, chapter 12 Drawfriend is posted, and Frac seems a little burned out. Anons ask her what's up.

She realizes that her story is beginning to diverge from the greentexts that /frz/ has written. What started as a collection of one-shots based on scattershot 4chan replies is beginning to feel more important than that. None of the offered greentexts are hitting the spot like they used to. Somehow, the characters need more.

From this moment onward, Frac takes a new direction. Only a couple chapters after this point (16 and 21) are based on greentexts, and even those are loosely adapted. Instead, the fic ceases to be a collection of one-shots and starts forming into a true story, the story that everyone now knows and loves.

She posts the next chapter the same night. Chapter 13 Past is in the Past is a unique installment in the series, going back in time to detail the moment Elsa believes that she fell for Anna. It briefly scales back the angst and drama, and gives a cute slice-of-life of a simpler time for the characters. Some consider it the most human chapter in the story.

From this point on, the story progresses in a remarkable way. In case you haven't read it, I'll avoid too many major spoilers here. But as you can imagine, certain chapters (like 20: Implode-Explode) prompted clamorous reactions from the /frz/ threads.

After a few more weeks, other sites start taking notice of what's happening here. Tumblr picks up on the fic and begins rallying behind it. Artists begin painting r9kElsa portraits. It's when r9k starts wrapping up that r/Elsanna is founded and starts gaining traffic.

Other well-known stories also start being published once r9k hits its stride. During a very short period between mid-January and early February 2014, you see Extra! Extra!, A Formal Arrangement, Feel, Don't Conceal, Drum Major, You Are, A Snowflake in Spring, Winter Girl, the Cake Fic, and others published for the first time. Almost every modern-AU fic can trace its characterizations at least partially back to r9k. In some cases, e.g. Tessellate, much more than partially!

A Reason

If you read any post or thread from any Elsanna community in 2014, you'll find one thing repeated over and over: r9kElsa is Suffering brought me here. The story is the most common elevator pitch for the ship, because especially at that time, it meant something more to people than just sexy cartoon girls (though it undoubtedly meant that too).

In a world of isolation, where many traditional sources of community have been whittled away, people are desperate for hope.

This is the core of why Frozen succeeded so tremendously.

It came at exactly the right cultural moment, when both adults and teenagers the world over were feeling more alone than any prior point in history; and it showed that there's a reason to open your door. Even when you're feeling like there's no way out, like no one could ever see past your faults and doubts, you can remember that there IS hope. It's not in Prince Charming or a genie in a bottle. You can have hope in knowing that there are other people, broken in their own ways, who WILL love you for you. Unreservedly.

Frozen has been criticized for its resolution being too easy. "Love," they say, "what a shallow fix for everything!"

They are wrong. Love is an anomaly of nature. It breaks every rule. It is supernatural and spiritual and it is real life magic. And realizing that you can always choose to love the fixer-upper beside you is the surest way to thaw your own frozen heart.

r9kElsa is Suffering has likewise been criticized for its ending. Readers wanted to see something sexy, thrilling, or at least certain. Instead, they got something ambiguous and thoughtful.

Personally, the last two chapters are my favorites of the whole story.

We see a broken family trying to piece itself together. We see a father reckoning with his abject failure, and seeking a new way of living with his family. Any parent would feel overwhelmed, angry, afraid in that situation. He doesn't want to be consumed by fear and frustration. He just wants to love his daughters. And he does. Even after everything, he does.

And critically, he trusts Elsa to make the right decisions, even when he himself doesn't know what they are anymore.

And then, ultimately, in the final chapter, we read a beautiful mirror of the first. Elsa is in her room, but the curtains aren't shut anymore. Sunlight streams in through the window. Anna enters freely, their tension long released by their figurative walls having been dismantled.

In an often-overlooked moment of clarity, Elsa ceases to be consumed by her preferred method of isolation, her computer. Whereas in the first chapter, she can't look Anna in the eye, and only stares at her ever-illuminated computer screen; now, she does something new. She turns off her monitor and momentarily contemplates her reflection in the black mirror. Who is the woman she sees staring back at her?

She would be unrecognizable from the girl who sat in that chair six months before.

Finally, in the last moment, Elsa is faced with making the "right decision".

Unburdened by fear or requirement, she is prompted for the first time to determine honestly what the right thing is, for herself, for Anna, for their family.

She hesitates. What is right? Is it right to push Anna away?

She decides. She loves Anna, and she's never going to erect a wall between them again.

Her father asked her to remember what's important. Anna is what's important to her. All of the rules, all of the shame, all of the worries -- they don't matter.

You love her, and she loves you. That's all that matters.

Dear reader: today, now ten years older, remember what matters to you. Love the people in your life. Love boldly and selflessly and unreservedly, and frozen hearts will begin to thaw.

- tfwyouloveher

---

A/N: many thanks to the people and resources that made this retrospective achievable

frac, also known as @kate---kane and anonelsa, who so many of us have to thank (or curse?) for our years spent in this community

desuarchive.org and archived.moe make this digital archaeology possible

/frz/ will hate me for posting their activity across the web but I don't mind :)

there is a wealth of fascinating and entertaining material in the /frz/ threads of these archives. I spent weeks reading through old threads long considered lost for this post

neiromaru and @spooths are among the top connoiseurs of frozen fanfiction, and their ancient lists made this research much easier

the various archivists on r/elsanna and elsewhere who saved so many important pieces of fic history before they were deleted

the dropbox and mega archives were instrumental

enormous thanks to my editor, who ended up rewriting most of this post, but who wished to remain anonymous. seems unexpectedly appropriate :)

[glittering-snowfall]

The Elsanna ship, ten years later...

When I think about the golden days of the Elsanna ship (circa 2013-2015), two images come to mind – this one… 

…and this one…

Both pieces of fanart were created to celebrate the legalization of gay marriage nationwide in the US in June 2015 – and both encapsulate the youthful energy, the innocence, the idealism of Elsanna shippers at the time. They might seem silly now to some people, but only because they are so earnest. There is an achingly earnest sincerity here because the Elsanna-shipping community was made up of a bunch of young, queer Disney fans. 

The ship wasn’t created by a bunch of creeps who wanted to “disregard or misunderstand the message of the film.”

The ship was created by a group of young wlw, young lesbians, young queer folks, who were drawn to the film because of its themes of self-acceptance and self-understanding (because they UNDERSTOOD the message of the film.) And they were drawn to the sisters’ bond because, in some way, it resonated with them – a connection between two people that was based on coming to an understanding of shared trauma and pain, a connection rooted in compassion for someone othered by society.

Frozen came out in 2013. Korrasami wouldn’t be canon for a while yet, things like Lumity and Catradora weren’t even a dream, and these naive, earnest, heartfelt kids wanted to see something that reflected themselves so much that they built a ship from the ground up.

I have seen people in recent years express bewilderment about why the Elsanna ship came into being, saying things like, “Why does this ship exist? Elsa and Anna aren’t in love; they’re sisters.” Which… duh. Obviously, they are not in love. Obviously, they are sisters. Such an attempt to say, “Checkmate, creeps!” ignores why ships come into existence in the first place. Non-canon ships emerge because there are aspects of two particular characters that the audience can relate to or project a part of themselves upon/see themselves in; and because there are elements of these characters’ dynamic/interactions that the audience can project upon/see themselves in.

And with Elsa and Anna’s dynamic together and connection throughout the film? There was A LOT that a young queer audience latched onto - NOT because these shippers felt the film was secretly espousing incest subtext, but because the characters were created to be broadly relatable to anyone with a difficult home life, anyone who felt isolated and ostracized from society, and so their narrative together lent itself to a queer reading.

Consider: on the one hand, there is Elsa – a character who exploded across the popular consciousness because so many people related to her individual story, many of them queer young people. Isolated for who she was, taught to repress her identity and her emotions, forced to conform to a society that could harm her. There hardly needs to be any more ink spilled on why Elsa struck such a chord with queer viewers – and the queer viewers who helped to shape the Elsanna ship were among the people who fell in love with her as much as anyone.

On the other hand, there is Anna. Anna’s story is different from Elsa’s, but bears many of the same marks of trauma. Anna is forced to live in a world where the rules feels arbitrary and uncaring, where nothing makes sense but no one will tell her why. Not her sister, who has been taught that she must shut Anna out. Not her parents, the authorities of the society she lives in who put the rules in place. Like many queer young people, Anna is forced to navigate a world where the rules are arbitrary and cruel. And, like her sister, she begins to internalize that pain. “What did I ever do to you?” she cries to Elsa at the coronation because, without the full context, she can’t rule out that this might be her fault – or at least, that societal forces around her tell her that this is her fault even when she did nothing.

There was so much in each character individually that queer young people resonated with.

When you factor in that their connection is something that the powers that be within the film attempt to forbid, that their connection is something that is at first treated as something that needs to be suppressed but that ultimately proves to be a positive force for both of them, then… yeah, it becomes clearer why so many queer young people aching to connect with something would see themselves in that relationship.  

I know of several prominent artists on this site who got their start in the Elsanna fandom, or who were happy to take part in the ship because they saw the way other queer young people connected with it (signatures blotted out to prevent potential harassment of artists over decade-old art):

People don’t like to remember it, but ten years ago, there were wlw fandom blogs on here that would casually make or reblog Elsanna art – not because they had some secret insidious agenda – but because the ship connected with them on an emotional level or because they understood why it did with others:

And there were shippers of other queer ships reaching out:

The Elsanna fandom of 2013-15 was a reflection of a group of queer young people (primarily wlw) – a reflection of their passion, their dedication, their craftsmanship, their creativity, and their longing to be seen. It was a group of queer young people using the pieces that a film they loved gave them to create something of their own, from their hearts, for themselves.

Create something of their own with their own spirit and hopes, reflecting their own aspirations and fears and dreams for the future.

And sure, people now can say, “That’s disgusting! How could anyone do that?” In 2020, someone called out a lovely person on here because she shipped Elsanna nearly a decade ago (even though she HAD LONG SINCE DELETED ALL EA CONTENT FROM HER BLOG, even!):

This callout is dishonest. It claims that the individual “thinks shipping them is cute” even though, when this was written, the person had not shipped Elsanna in years. It also claims Elsanna is p/*do/ph/ilic when it is not. (It is incest, obviously, and that is inherently problematic.) It also tries to make a connection between the person wanting queer rep and shipping an inherently problematic ship, when those things do not correlate at all. You can ship something and never want it to be canon. You can ship something and not want it to be “representation” – and that’s what being in the Elsanna fandom of 2013-15 was like.

People didn’t want it to be canon. They didn’t want it to be “representation.” Everyone already knows that incest is wrong. People don’t have to ship something as a crusade for representation. But people DID ship it because they saw something of themselves in the ship – and they saw the opportunity to project something of themselves (their queerness, their sense of being othered and isolated by their families, etc.) onto characters that they loved. The ship provided the opportunity for these young people to explore their senses of self and explore their identities.  

And sure, as I’ve said in the past, perhaps that wasn’t ideal – the fact that these young folks were starving for anything that was like them and so had to make a feast from whatever they had available. But I find something BEAUTIFUL in the fact that so many people were able to come together and create such beautiful things because Elsanna inspired them. I know people who met their partners, met their wives, through this ship. I’ve seen firsthand the positive influence it has had.

Like Elsa on the North Mountain, we felt isolated, we were figuring ourselves out. And we built wonders with what was inside of us. The beauty of some of the art in this ship is akin to the beauty of Elsa’s ice palace. The writing I have seen in this ship can be as elegant as any elegantly-sculpted spire Elsa fashioned through her own magic and her own will.   

This ship was ours, is ours. 

We made it for ourselves, to reflect ourselves and our identities and share aspects of those identities with others, the same way people came to ship Elsamaren when F2 came out. It may have been new faces and a new ship, but it was part of the same idea, just for a different time. 

And when you look at the thousands of pieces of Elsanna fanfiction that have been written, and the thousands of pieces of fanart (especially the beautifully diverse styles of early Elsanna fanart) – you don’t get so many people expounding their passion and creativity on something unless it means something to them, and Elsanna meant something to so many people. Mattered to them. Look at the excitement and joy in people’s words in the early days of the fandom if you don’t believe me. 

And I think that’s beautiful.

EDIT: I’ve made another post about this, but I want to add to this post that I regret saying things like “maybe that wasn’t ideal” when I wrote it. It WAS ideal because it was a beautiful to see us create a space for ourselves. 

And it STILL IS beautiful.  It CONTINUES to be beautiful. The fandom still exists and I’m glad that it still exists because it still brings such beautiful things into the world.

Elsanna isn’t just a placeholder until a better, more palatable ship comes along. Elsanna is beautiful in its own right.

[vanilla-lip-stick]

Brainrot

So I am about ten years late to the fandom, started reading Elsanna fics about half a year ago. A few times before that, Elsanna stories appeared in my AO3 searches, but I shied away from those because of the incest aspect, I won't lie. However, I was running out of femslash stories to read, to I thought, well, I can read the unrelated stuff, it's fine.

I found those two utterly charming and adorable, and I couldn't get enough. So I eventually peeked into the pile of stories where they were sisters but not only sisters. And I still found them utterly charming and adorable, but also, at times, broken, repressed, yearning, hurting, fighting, loving. It quickly became my favourite ship (and it currently still is), and I particularly like the sister aspect because I always was a sucker for forbidden love, always liked it when writers ventured into difficult territory, asked difficult questions, gave ambiguous answers, because that's what life usually is, at least from my perspective.

After, at the time of posting this, five published stories on AO3 with about 70 k words, I'll tell you a little secret: I have never seen Frozen. Most I know about it and about Anna and Elsa I know from fics, and bits and pieces from other sources. If you read hundreds of thousands of words of fanfiction about them, I guess something sticks.

Also, many of those fics have inspired ideas of my own. New entries keep popping up in my backlog, and I already have about 50 outlined in various degrees. Just to give you a taste of what's in there, have this screenshot:

Yes, those numbers on the right are page numbers. More numbers? Then have this:

Before I started to treat writing seriously some years ago, before I finally committed myself to try my best to become a professional author, I was one of those people you wondered: where do writers get all these ideas from? Now, I find myself on the other end of the spectrum. I have too many ideas. (That above is, mind you, just my Elsanna backlog. My backlog for originals is even longer. Not that size matters.) There's no way I could possibly turn every idea I have had until now into a story even if I turn 100. And sometimes, this thought is so hard to cope with because while I don't think each of these ideas is a gem, there are many of them I love in one way or another.

(Some ideas, I am really scared of, and one in particular makes me sick whenever I stumble across it because it covers a topic I, as a reader, usually give a wide berth. Not so long ago, I read a fic that had this, thought I could perhaps take it, and looking back I have so say: no, I can't, and I have to fight the images in my head when I remember certain parts of the story to stay somewhat sane.)

Anyway. I wish writing didn't take so long, and I wish I were immortal until one day I decided I have had enough. I'm sure many of you can relate. (If there even is someone out there reading these ramblings. If there is, come say hi. Or find my stories on AO3.)

[twochildreninamoteldemo]

I have Thoughts about Frozen. I never have thought about the movie This way before because it makes me uncomfortable given that I related so much to it as a queer older sibling who had always loved the winter and pretended to have ice powers, but I feel as if the Reading is there...maybe the elsannas are right

[syunkiss]

bitch an elsanna fan followed me

i never even mentioned frozen or anything related to Disney yall are doing this purposefully im so sure 💀

[converse-with-air]

I'm now idly wondering if there are any circumstances in which a not-related AU of a incest ship would work for me. I generally think it's a really boring thing to do to an incest ship, but... If you look at, for example, not related!Elsanna fics, I would say they tend to have Elsa and Anna meeting as adults or young adults, which is basically stripping away everything that makes their relationship interesting in the movie. If you instead wrote them as childhood best friends who grew up as next door neighbors, would that retain some of what I like about their relationship? I also just think modern day, no powers AUs are really boring unless done right, so keeping Elsanna in the same time and place as the movie would make me more willing to try a not-related AU. Keep Elsa as the princess and make Anna the daughter of a servant, who has a little bit of a hero-worship crush on the elegant, refined, slightly older princess, until one day the castle doors shut and she no longer has any access to Elsa... that's intriguing.

[ao3feed-ncishawaii]

Love in Hawaii - An Elsanna story

by Monk_555 Jane Tennant the First female sac of Ncis has 2 sisters, Elsa Arendelle & Atlas Arendelle. They are twins by the way. Also Jane is a divorcee & mother of Alex & Julie. Atlas, Anna summers, Jesse Boone, Kai Holman & Ernie Malik works under Jane in Ncis Hawaii. Elsa who worked as a Doctor in Army comes to Hawaii to stay close to her sisters. It's her story. This is a story about love, friendship, struggles, bravery and Family. Sorry kacy fans... There is no kacy in this story Words: 1625, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: Frozen (Disney Movies), NCIS: Hawai'i, Elsa - Fandom Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Categories: F/F, Gen Characters: Elsa (Disney), Anna (Disney), Atlas, Jane Tennant, Jesse Boone, Alex Tennant, Julie Tennant, Carla Chase, Daniel Tennant, Claire Browne Relationships: Anna/Elsa (Disney), Anna & Elsa (Disney) Additional Tags: Unrelated Anna/Elsa (Disney), Lesbian Elsa (Disney), Elsa-centric (Disney), Anna and Elsa are Not Related (Disney) via https://ift.tt/YV7Dc9h

[forkanna]

[AO3 LINK] [EF LINK]

NOTE:  Told you I was going to keep this moving! We should also have another fic going soon on this account again - though I'm going to try to hold off on beginning that one until more of Coven is complete (so I don't wind up in the situation I had with Bind Us/Precious Little Knives lol). Enjoy!

A brief discussion followed as they retreated from the Upperuplands, winging their way further East to Pumperdink. Glinda had requested that be their next stop, and Elphaba was too worried about keeping her eyes peeled for the local law enforcement to worry overly about why. At least it was unlikely that the formerly royal armies could have swept that far north, if indeed they were still being pursued.

"Of course we are," she told Glinda impatiently as they drifted over the tops of the trees of the Great Gillikin Forest. "Didn't you hear the way those guards were shouting at us? And I have his Grimmerie!"

Redoubling her grip around Elphaba's waist, she said reasonably, "But it was such a little mistake, wasn't it? Taking the book. Why, the library at Shiz doesn't call out the army for an overdue fine!"

"You've seen what this book can do. Flying brooms and trunks and monkeys, and that's from a single spell! What do you think we can accomplish when we start learning about the others?"

"The others? You mean… you mean you intend to continue sorcerism?! Oh, that seems- I mean, with Morrible and the Wizard, and now we're- do we really want to dig ourselves any deeper? The teensy bit we've learned so far is already turning us into wanted criminals!"

"You have a better plan?" No answer. "I thought not."

"Fine, I don't, but that doesn't mean we should be stealing any more spellwork from His Wizlyness! If we give the book back now, with only the one spell used… maybe he won't mind at all! What's one flying broom between friends, right?"

Elphaba sighed as they wove between two taller treetops. "I doubt it will be that easy. But… perhaps we should ask for word at our next stop. See what the situation is in the Emerald City, if the search has reached this far North. Or if he's called it off; we could get lucky."

"Agreed. And I'll handle that job, since you… well, you're…"

"An artichoke."

"More noticeable," Glinda finished lamely. It earned her a rueful chuckle.

"Where is this we're heading, anyway?"

"My granny's house. She's not as rules-oriented as my parents, and might have some idea where we can go if the Wizard can't be reasoned with. Which I still think he can, once everything's a little calmer!"

Her response was scarcely a whisper. "Let's hope you're right — on all counts."

                                                     ~ o ~

Granny Upland lived in a small domicile on the outskirts of the nicer side of Pumperdink — which is to say, it was still grander than Elphaba's childhood home in the governor's estate in Nest Hardings. Such a disparity between Gillikin and Munchkinland was well-known, but only hearing Glinda's descriptions of "quaint little bungalow" and "cozy Pumperdink" really drove it home. The hour was quite late, so they felt guilty ringing the bell to fetch anyone, but it was either that or sleep on her doorstep.

"Yes?" asked the Quadling servant whose round face was sandwiched by the door and its frame. Elphaba blinked and drew back in surprise, having at least expected a Gillikinese person to answer.

"Pardon the late hour and our intrusionary ringing," Glinda said with a curtsy. "But is the mistress of the house still up to receiving guests? I'm her granddaughter, Glinda — or Galinda, as she might remember me."

Elphaba's face fell into her palm.

"She is, but only just. One moment, please." The door closed, leaving them on the stoop as the sounds of footsteps receded. Within another five minutes, the servant returned and showed them in.

"Galinda, my dear, precious child!" the wizened old woman cried as she hobbled in on a cane, reaching out with the free hand to first grasp her forearm, and then draw her in for three-quarters of a hug. "Ohhh, I did wonder if I'd get to see you before your second year at that infernal university began! You're looking well, quite well!"

"Good eve, Granny! It has been ever so long, hasn't it? Oh, and this is my travelling companion, Elphaba!"

"Saint Aelphaba?" the woman gasped, obviously teasing. "Why, as I live and breathe; we've been blessed with a visit of a divinitous nature!"

Laughing, she turned to pull Elphaba closer, the latter hitching a pained, polite smile into place. Glinda already knew by now that she found being compared to the holy figure from Oz's history books beyond grating; anyone would, especially given the legend of Aelphaba disappearing nude into a waterfall. She could hardly blame her for wanting to distance herself from any kind of story that would encourage boys to ask her to shuck her clothing anytime it's raining. Not that it had stopped Glinda herself from making a remark or two when they were newly acquainted; she felt a little guilty about that now, but youth and idiocy often went hand in hand.

"Silly Granny. No, no, she's the daughter of the Eminent Thropp, the Munchkinland governor! Isn't that nifty?"

"Indeed, indeed. By the look of her, I'd have guessed she's from the Emerald City!" Chuckling at her own joke, Glinda merely grimacing and Elphaba too used to such remarks to react, she motioned for them to join her on the sofa. "Come, sit, sit. Have some Quox nuts - roasted just to the right darkness, very good for you."

"I'm allergic, Granny," Glinda told her patiently. "You knew that."

"Stuff and nonsense! Try a few, these are really quite good!" Glinda mimed reaching toward the bowl as the old woman turned toward Elphaba, pulling back her hand with no nuts in it once the attention was no longer on herself. "And you, Miss Aelphaba — how did you come to companionably travel with my little apple-cheeked granddaughter? And why are you wearing her hat?"

"Her hat?!"

The conversation meandered around from there, and they never did broach the subject of the Wizard and stolen spellbooks. This wasn't helped along by the fact that Granny was getting a little hard of hearing in her old age, and occasionally had to ask for clarification on several points. The effort of explaining fleeing the Wizard's palace in fear of their lives would be made that much harder.

At last, they retired for the evening. Nestled in one of the guest rooms that had two beds, they weren't awake for much longer. Already, Glinda felt odd with Elphie so far away; it had only been a couple of nights bunking together, but she had found it comforting to have her friend so closeby, within reach of her hand should she suffer a nightmare. She hadn't enjoyed that type of reassurance since she was a little girl.

"Can't believe you pawned off your dear, sweet grandmother's hat on me just because you didn't like it."

"Shhh, Elphie! I did like it, but didn't think it suited me. But seeing it on you, I genuinely think it works quite well." At least that last part was the full truth; she might feel guilty about deceiving Elphaba before, but the end result was that she now had a hat that looked as if it had been fashioned specifically for her head. All's well that ends well, as they said. Whoever 'they' were.

"Fine, fine. But don't think I'm…" A yawn interrupted the rest of her words. Smiling to herself, Glinda decided to interrupt that train of thought.

"Don't worry about it. Let's get some rest. Then tomorrow…"

"Tomorrow, we'll figure out our lives," Elphaba promised her. "Whether I should go on alone, and you stay here, or… something else."

Glinda smiled across at the other bed's occupant. "A girl could start to think she's not wanted with talk like that." But before Elphaba could reply, she yawned and snuggled into the pillow. "Goodnight, Elphie."

Harrumphing, she returned, "Goodnight, Glindie."

"Watch it, Fabala."

                                                    ~ o ~

A week passed with little change. Though Granny played a wonderful host, she was useless at actually focusing on any deeper, darker subjects. Any time Glinda began to ask for help, or Elphaba attempted to confess her sins for a third time, she would change the subject. Whether this was by design or by chance was unclear.

Glinda did steal into the main square of town the fourth day, asking around the local watering hole. With a scarf on her head, she looked like any other Northerner, and gave her name as Gayelette — earning her some titters at the odd-sounding moniker. No one had heard any juicy gossip from Emerald City in a good, long while. She caught snippets of older bits and commented on them as if they were news to her, but otherwise came up dry. That was a positive thing, after all; the longer it took for news of their exploits to spread, the less frantically they would have to relocate.

Between chats, she also managed to pick up another dress or two that would fit Elphaba's taller frame. This involved a lot of over-describing to the clothiers, but in the end, she got the job done. She was tempted to pick up more travelling supplies, and did get herself a lovely pink cloak for those breezy flights high in the sky, but otherwise abstained. They should discuss what they might need together before she burned through their meager coin and had to pawn more valuables.

"Listen to this," Elphaba said from her perch on the bed, fingertips holding the pages of the Grimmerie open. "My Ancient Lurlinic is as rusty as can be, the characters are so hard to read… but I think it says, 'To turn a frog into cheese.' What possible use could this be?!"

"Don't look at me, Elphie; you know I can't read that gobbledygook."

Sighing, she nodded as she flipped through more pages. "I could probably teach you if I wasn't awful at it myself. Still… maybe if I spend enough time with this thing, I'll sharpen my skills. Learn to read Lurline's old scribbly mess as easily as Standardised Gillikinese."

"Maybe so — except I thought we would be returning that when we could," she reminded her pointedly.

"Right. Right, yes, we are." Nodding resolutely, she shut the book and set it aside. "It's just all so fascinating; not so much that I want to learn the spells, just that I want to know what spells there are to be learned. Does that make any sense at all?"

"It does; you have a thirst for knowledge. Always did at Shiz, too! I think that's commendable and worthy of respectfulness."

"Why do you always make up words that sound like other words, but longer?"

Blinking, Glinda looked down at the hole in Elphaba's cloak she had been patching and tried not to let herself blush. "W-well, I… it's fashionable. Don't they sound nicer when they're longer like that?"

"No, they sound longer." When Glinda only pouted a little more, she stood and brushed her knees off, then strode across to the window. "But what do I know?"

"You know Lurlinic, for one." Her patchwork could wait; there was no hurry. Crossing the little room, she stood by Elphaba. "Have… you thought about what you're going to write to the Wizard?"

"I have."

"And?"

Her fingernails dug at a small knothole on the windowsill. "And I still have no idea. Well, that isn't accurate; I have many ideas. All bad."

"Aww… here, why don't we get started? There's a stack of papers on the writing desk, and I'm sure it won't take us more than a few tries digging in before we strike emerald." Before Elphaba could protest, she took her by the elbow and turned her so that they were facing each other. "I'll take dictation; I may only know one language, but my penmanship is exquisitous."

That time, Elphaba only smirked at her odd little phrasing. "Alright, then. Suppose we might as well give it the old Shiz try." Once Glinda was seated at the writing desk and had unstoppered the inkwell, she asked, "Ready?"

"Hold on, let me test the nib." She scratched out a couple of words on a spare scrap of paper that had likely been torn in half to dash off a quick note. Satisfied, she redipped her quill. "Okay, let's have it!"

"Okay. Hmm… here. 'Dearest Wizard'- no, wait, forget that. He's not dear to me, he scarcely knows who I am!"

Glinda frowned up at her. "You're so nervous and I haven't even written anything!"

"You know how much I used to respect him! Even if… well, everything's gone wrong by now. But that's- okay, focus. I need to focus." She began to pace as she thought, and then suddenly began, "'Dear Wizard. I am deeply regretful that I… absconded with your Grimmerie.' Does 'absconded' sound okay?"

"Divine, Elphie. Keep going, this is all fine so far."

"Good. 'With your Grimmerie. It was never my intention to do so, especially because I did not know it existed before that day. However, the consequences of the spell you bade me read were not… were not…' Um… I didn't know what it was going to do…"

"Readily apparent?"

"'Readily apparent to me until they had already been read. Seeing the monkeys in such pain from the spell I read for you frightened me, and I panicked. I hope you can understand how I reacted. Therefore… it is with great regret that I apologise, and offer to return your Grimmerie to you, intact.' How is that?"

Glinda read it back to her, and Elphaba nodded along, still pacing. Then she asked, "Were you going to mention him letting us go?"

"Right, yes — that's what's next! Okay. '...to you, intact. In exchange for this, I wish you to grant Glinda Upland a full pardon, for she was an innocent bystander in all of this. As for myself, I will accept whatever punishment you deem appropriate.'"

"Wait, Elphie," Glinda said, just having finished writing down the last word. "What do you mean? Couldn't you ask for a pardon for yourself, too?"

Sighing, she turned weary eyes toward her friend. "It's asking too much. Look how far we ran off with the book! You really think he's going to just shrug and say 'oh well', especially now that we know how powerful it is?"

"Well… no, but it doesn't hurt to ask!" Dipping the quill again, she added on her own, "'But I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive and forget.' There, that way you're only asking, and not making it a condition of the Grimmerie's surrender."

"That's good, that's good," Elphaba confirmed as she hunched over the back of the chair, gazing down at the sheet. "And it looks clean and neat so far. Well done."

"Thank you," she whispered with a tiny smile. "Might not have many talents to my name, but penmanship is one of them. Okay, what else?"

"That's it. I don't want to beleaguer the point and take up too much of his time. Sign it 'Sincerely and ashamedly,' and my name."

"You sign your name," she asked once she had put down the rest, holding out the quill. After a brief moment of indecision, she did, with a flourish and some slight blotting that made the final letters look a bit spidery. Then she handed back the quill and reached to pick up the page. "W-wait, don't you want to use pounce first, so it doesn't smudge?!"

"O-oh, I… you're right, how stupid of me. What is wrong with my brain today?"

Smiling up at her as she reached for the pounce pot, she whispered, "You're fine. Just… nervous. I understand." She sprinkled the fine powder on the page, soaking up the extra ink. Then she turned toward the window, picking it up by the edges. "Can you…?"

"Yes, of course." Elphaba gently eased the window open, and Glinda blew the dust out into the late evening. Once the window was shut and they were back by the desk, Elphaba read over their work. "I hate it. However, I honestly don't think I could make a better job of it if I tried again, so we might as well leave it this way."

"Fine by me. Just hope it does the job that it should do."

Then they sealed it inside an envelope, took a deep breath, and turned in for the evening.

                                                    ~ o ~

Another day passed much the same. Still they got nowhere with Granny conversationally, and still they had no clear idea of where to go, what to do. Elphaba wasted great gobs of time leafing through the Grimmerie, but it was more to keep from pacing or talking to herself than out of a desire to plumb the depths of its material. Glinda tried to take up most of her time mending clothes or chattering, which she could tell was beginning to get on her companion's nerves, but she had no better notion of what to do with herself. All her life, people had been shunting her in one direction or another; the few independent thoughts she had summoned were all very closely related to ones others had stated at one point or another. Life with Elphaba was highly challenging in ways she never could have predicted.

The next afternoon, Glinda was on her way back from the market with a few minor odds and ends when she stopped in at the Bittuvalai Inn again. She asked the same old questions, expecting nothing more than the same old answers.

She was sorely mistaken.

"You aren't a 'Gayelette' at all!" one of the men accused once he'd clapped eyes on her. "You're a Galinda!"

"That's Glinda, please!" she snapped — before she could stop herself. Covering her mouth with her hand, she hurriedly added, "And I don't know what you mean!"

"Knew it!" he said, nodding over his shoulders. "Ain't any girls 'round this pathetic town as lovely as her, she had to be from somewhere's else!"

Smiling in spite of herself, Glinda tittered, "Oh, you do go on, sir!" Then she noticed the patrons were closing her off from the door, attempting to corral her into the corner. "W-wait, you don't go on… I m-mean, you should let me go, please!"

A squat, middle-aged woman demanded, "Or what? You'll curse us?"

"Curse you? Please, how would I even know how to do such a thing?! I am but a poor student from Shiz University; I barely know how to put one wand in front of the other!"

"WITCH!" a mousy-looking man somehow managed to shout at the top of his lungs, bringing around the few other patrons who had been ignorant of the scene.

"Who, where?!" she squeaked innocently.

"You won't get away from here so easily, witch!" the woman went on as the dozens of pairs of eyes fixated on her, seeming to drill right through her body. An urge to poke them welled up within herself. "We'll turn you in, we will, and our names will be praised by His Wizliness!"

"Perhaps there'll be a reward!"

The moment the first man said that, there were many murmurs of assent. That did not tip things in her favour at all. Glinda's blue eyes swept up and down the scrubby wooden tables and chairs, to the well-polished bartop and the bartender crouched behind it. She could only hope he wasn't going for some sort of weapon he kept just in case of similar disturbances. Ordinarily, she would have been glad of the protection… but not when she wasn't the one being protected.

"Please, look at yourselves!" she urged as she pressed back against the wall, palms finding its surface as her cloth sack swung from her elbow. "I h-haven't cursed you for threatening me already, so how could I be a witch? Y-you're being silly, all of you!"

"Silly and rich, soon enough!" said the mousy man.

There was nothing else to be done; she had to think of some way to trick them out of attacking. Glinda reached into her bag and pulled out a beetroot. "Do you see this?!" she screeched, causing them all to hesitate. "One false move, and I'm warning you… I'll do to you what I did to him!"

A collective gasp went up. That was enough; she had thrown the shadow of doubt across their zealousness. Tossing the beet into the air, she dashed for the door, only barely glimpsing that several of them dove to catch what they presumed was a transmogrified person. One man had to be elbowed out of the way, but he was surprised enough that she could manage it and make good her escape.

How much longer will they stare at it, waiting to see if it speaks? she couldn't help thinking to herself as she dashed up the lane toward her Granny's house. The situation didn't merit such japes, but she felt she had to take the amusement where she could find it.

Once bursting through the door, she saw Granny perched on the sofa with a cup of tea in her hand, and Elphaba poring over the book. They both started, a few drops of tea falling to the rug from the cup.

"They're coming!"

Immediately, Elphaba shot to standing. "How many?"

"From the look of it, the entire village!" Glinda panted as she leaned against the door. "Oh… oh, we have to fly! I don't want us to still be here when they catch up, and ruin my Granny's lovely Quadling rugs trying to catch us!"

"What's all this about?" Granny asked in mild confusion, squinting as they began to head for the staircase. "Who's coming?!"

There wasn't time to explain to the poor old thing. The minute they reached the bedroom, they began to cram everything into the trunk as quickly as was possible; Grimmerie, new purchases, even one of the pillows from the bed wound up padding the inside. Of course, the flying spell was still in action upon the trunk, as a spell cannot be undone once it's been said, so they tied it to the back of the broom as efficiently as they could without muddling the process and prepared to leave.

"Really, this is a most unceremonical exit you're making!" Granny pouted as they began to approach the front door.

"I am sorry, Gran!" Glinda bade her, wringing the old woman's hands. "I've been trying to find a way to explain, but I… oh, it's really just so horribliffic, I don't want you to think any less of me! Of us!"

"We can't endanger your safety because of my mistake," Elphaba cut off further protests. "We'll just… well, I don't know where we'll go now that we've run out of relatives. But we'll figure something out."

Granny tutted her disapproval, but still patted Glinda's elbow. "You do as you must, dearie. Just take a few Quox nuts for the road!"

"Gran, you know I'm allerg-"

"We have to go now!" Elphaba hissed, gesturing to the windows. Indeed, there were mobs already gathering outside, stirred up by the ones from the tavern. They weren't knocking on the front door quite yet, but it wouldn't be long.

"Why does it feel like we're always rushing off somewhere?" Glinda sighed, embracing her grandmother. "We'll be back, though, you'll see!"

"Very well! Safe trip, don't do anything I wouldn't do!"

As they stepped outside, they did notice a few eyes turn in their direction, but they were already mounting the broom and readying to take off, not wasting a moment. By the time anyone had roused themselves enough to dash in their direction, it was too late; they were airborne.

However, the moment they were skimming past the upper-story windows of the homes, they began to feel sharp pains inflicted upon their legs and hips. Glinda glanced down and let out an exasperated squeak.

"What is it?" Elphaba asked through clenched teeth. "I'm concentrating on flying!"

"They're throwing rocks! Oh, of all the uncouthful, ridiculous- how can they be so rude?!" As they passed a particularly thick knot of Gillikin citizenry, she shouted down, "WHAT CHILDREN!"

"WITCH!" was all she heard in return, and had to flinch back to avoid a sound clouting of her nose with what seemed to be half a brick.

"Forget them," Elphaba snapped over her shoulder as they began to rise high enough that it would no longer be a problem. "They've made up their minds."

One last sound of a rock smacking against their trunk reached them before Pumperdink was behind them, the shouts fading in their wake. Alas, Elphaba was right about one thing: they were out of family members to beg for sanctuary. Where in Oz would they go now?

                                                    To Be Continued…

[glittering-snowfall]

You like making people who don't like incest in general or are disgusted by the thing you all turned Elsa and Anna's bond into your personal haters, constantly weaponzing one(bad and stupid) or two screenshots. But most of the time there's nothing personal. Disliking/criticizing this ship doesn't mean that your personality is under the threat. The screenshot with "it's just a familial/platonic art" and the person who suspected Elsanna in the art is absolutely innocent, nothing offensive there if you understand that incest is not for everyone and people have the right to ask what is going on.

You really don't know me, do you, anon? I have defended people's right to dislike the ship continually in the past. I have supported individuals who dislike the ship and I respect the fact that not everyone wants to see Elsanna content, that is why I have two blogs. The two blogs are there because I realize "incest is not for everyone" and I want to be supportive and compassionate towards ALL people, including people who personally dislike my ship.

Disliking/criticizing a ship is one thing, but telling shippers to die is another. Telling them to shove swords down their throat is another. Saying you want them trampled to death is another (and yes, this is in relation to a famous meme, but the sentiment is still brutal.) Someone stalking me personally and hounding others to "expose" me is another (also, I would count that one as kind of personal, since it WAS directed at me specifically.)

I am not saying that "all people who dislike incest in general or are disgusted" by the ship are like this. The fact that other KA shippers who similarly dislike Elsanna supported me when that one person stalked and harassed me PROVES they are not, PROVES that people can dislike a thing and still have some sense of decency. (At the same time, I've also been mistrusted and emotionally manipulated by KA shippers, even by some of the people who stuck up for me there, so.)

But don't I have the right, anon, to criticize the people who DO behave this way? OBVIOUSLY, not everyone who dislikes a ship is like this, but the people who are deserve to be held accountable.

As for the screenshot you mentioned, it isn't in the same category as the other things I have mentioned, but if the mere sight of the sisters near each other in a piece of fanart that could easily be interpreted as snow sisters is enough to make you think, "This is an incest red flag," then you should probably take a step back.

Likewise, if you're going to call out someone (another blogger, the one referenced in the screenshot calling the ship "p*d*ph*l*a" when it isn't) who has cleansed their blog and not shipped it in years, then you do not care about righteousness, you are just being cruel.

And if you want people to die (even as a joke) then you're cruel. I can't change you but I have every right to dislike your behavior. How would people react if I put "__________ shippers die!" on my blog or fantasized cruelties done unto other shippers?

If I did that, you wouldn't be defending me for "disliking/criticizing a ship but not personally attacking."

And even if it WERE only two examples, anon (it's not, it's been more than that since the beginning) people have a right to talk about the hostility, the "jokey" death wishes. Even if it there WERE only a few of them.

I also think it's telling that you gloss over the more openly cruel examples to focus on the tamer one. Convenient for you.

[werewolf-cuddles]

Idea: modern AU Elsanna fic where they’re half-siblings who meet for the first time as adults, become friends, and ultimately fall in love and start dating, without knowing that they’re related.

Naturally, once they inevitably discover this fact, it would be a source of conflict and drama.

maybe I’d write this if I had any confidence whatsoever in my ability to write.

[waluigis-biggest-fan]

I'd say points 1, 3, and 4 are the biggest points in favor of incest for me. I absolutely love when "tearing ones' self up inside because its wrong and impossible" is written well and the sneaking around aspect makes it even cuter.

The codependancy aspect (9) is also a major point for me. Granted: not the healthiest but hey, if you're friends and you fight monsters every other week, why not just add consensual lovemaking to the list?

As for 10 and 11, I never thought about it before but I do agree that the codependency and relationship between Gwen and Ben really did get fucked over once Kevin came into the picture and not for the better. Ben and Kevin have good chemistry since they're both teens who share a good number of things just by nature of being teens but still lived very different lives and have different goals; however, Gwen and Kevin don't really have that much to relate to. One can't really relate with a partner about how absurd teenage coming of age rituals are in the same way they can a peer.

15 can be good when written well but its not a major part of why I ship siblings.

16 however is definitely where its at. I've always said a good (non-poly, non-ace, non-aro) romantic relationship should be friends who kiss each other and make out and "hold hands" and siblings are almost always halfway there in stories. It is a rare story where the siblings outright hate each other.

18 almost seems like a nice bonus rather than a full on pro. Although it does make me want to make a meme of someone crying with the text "canon incest shipper" because anyone like that is just a sadomasochist.

19: yes. yes. yes. Yes! Yes! YES! YES! YES!!! I absolutely love that trope. Imagine a story where the siblings/cousins/whatnot are each trying to woo their respective crush but their crushes end up together instead so then THEY END UP TOGETHER. Imagine that. That'd be pretty kewl I think.

23: Yeah. Absolutely. I've said it before: if it exists, there is someone who will ship it. The small cast thing is also really true.

25, ooh 25. I'm not gonna go into detail but suffice to say that for around a year when I was 9 or 10 I had a crush on my cousin (if any of my relatives somehow found this blog, it wasn't you). In any case I don't still have a crush on them and I don't aspire to date a member of my family but I wouldn't tell someone they're amoral for being in a healthy relationship with a relative IRL. My entire philosophy is based around the individual's right to make their own decisions regardless of society's judgement and the alteration of society so that they accept that.

As for your points: 27, yeah I watched the first season of Arrow and couldn't get into it but I do agree Thea and Oliver had way too much chemistry to be siblings in that show. You ever get that feeling that the moment cameras stop rolling the actors are gonna eat off each other's faces like ravenous dogs? No? Well I felt that here.

Funny you mention Elsanna because its like my only f/f ship (no I haven't watched the Owl House (yet)).

I also love the way you say this. "Yeah I could ship her with Thor but why the fuck would I do that when they get literally no screentime?"

(28) Subtext can be a bitch sometimes and I think most authors get it wrong more than they get it right. (I think Bwen is a perfect example of this and I'll probably write a bigass post about the ways the writers made them weird in OS).

But yeah, mainly the reason I ship it is 1.

So I kinda assume everyone ships incest couples for the exact same reasons I do but a post by @shipcestuous made me realize that people have more than one reason.

So anyways, I'll tell you (overexplain and explore a pretty simple concept and line of reasoning till I'm no longer passionate about it and spend a few weeks away from the concept in anyone who will listen's general direction) mine if you tell me yours.

Once again time to see the follower count decrease after answering this haha.

I'll take some of Shipcestuous' (Astrid's) post 26 points about shipping siblings (also applies to cousins like Bwen) and add one or two of my own, which I think she didn't cover:

27) Sometimes we just prefer the shipcest over the canon pairings.

That's something I discussed  in a previous post of mine when talking about why I prefer Bwen over Benlie, Benkai and Gwevin. Fits some of my other shipcests too, like, I prefer Wanda x Pietro over Wanda x Vision, or (from Wizards of Waverly Place) Justin x Alex over Justin x Violet and Alex x Mason, or (from Frozen) Elsa x Anna over Anna x Kristoff.

A counterpoint would be: Ok, you don't like the canon pairings, but why not just ship the character with someone else that isn't a relative?

Sometimes I actually do that! For example, in Arrow I've never shipped the canon Oliver x Felicity, I used to ship Oliver x Laurel, and never felt like shipping Oliver with his sister Thea (though I have friends who do ship them).

But sometimes, I don't see a canon option that fits better than the shipcest, and that dives into Astrid's reason #18 ("you’re guaranteed “shippy” moments whether the romantic/sexual element is canon or not. The siblings are going to have sweet moments, significant moments, intense moments, emotional moments, pretty much no matter what.") Sometimes I feel like the better option is the relative (sibling, cousin) rather than another canon character. I don't like Wanda x Vision, so could I ship Wanda with, IDK, Thor? Yeah, I could, but I see her bond with Pietro much stronger, so I'm more inclined to ship her with Pietro rather than Thor.

28) Subtext is just WAY TOO strong

This I would point to Lauren and Andy from The Gifted. Nobody can watch a video like this and tell me they have a totally normal sibling relationship without any subtext of something else 

.

Now, I'll take some of Astrid's reasons that I most identify with.

10, 11) The "undivided loyalties" and "anti-change" aspect.

I'll once again give a Bwen example. In the Classic Series we see Gwen diving into the null-void to save Ben, pushing him out of a Florauna's way, and other moments. But in Alien Force, there is a scene where both Ben and Kevin are knocked out and she runs straight to check on Kevin rather than Ben. Then in Omniverse, Gwen leaves with Kevin, and Ben stays in Bellwood (later Rook joins him). Gwevin clearly changed the dynamics that I was used to between Ben and Gwen being devoted to protect each other, and I didn't want that to change.

A good counter-example to that, the Fantastic Four. They were always a family, Reed, his girlfriend/wife Sue, Sue's brother Johnny, and Reed's brother-from-another-mother Ben (and sometimes Reed's and Sue's children Franklin and Valeria). I like it that way, I wouldn't ship Sue and Johnny there because it would break that already established family dynamics.

9) Ulltimate codependency. In Astrids' words "Codependent characters who are also each others’ family are that much more codependent. No, it’s not always the healthiest situation, but there’s just something about a pairing that only has each other, who are each others’ everything." That defines at least three ships for me, Sam/Dean (Supernatural), Chris/Claire (Resident Evil), Hansel/Gretel (multiple media adaptations, but I mostly go with Witch Hunters).

1) Taboo/Forbidden aspect. Let's face it, this is probably the greatest consensual romantic taboo one can ship. There's a good deal of angst to write siblings or cousins hiding the nature of their relationship from the rest of their family. This I can put Ben and Gwen hiding it from their parents (and from Gwen's older brother, when he exists)

.

Last, but not least, another one of mine:

29) I ship what I want!

[reminaissance]

Been meaning to share this recent commission I had made by the talented @elore813 for my new fic.

Infinitas gracias! 🥰

[froelsannazen]

Someone please explain

[iwritegayshitt]

Tainted Confessions: Chapter 2

Chapter 2 of my short fic for @itstooshy is here!  Rated M for nsfw elements but nothing explicit!  Enjoy!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/31289219/chapters/79805992