#mythal (arguably)

[the-northern-continent]

Compassion spirits in theory: kind, gentle, all too rare

Compassion spirits in practice: never more than 1m away from a FRESH dead body, and excited to lead you toward(!) the hazard that caused it. If they become “less rare” in your neighborhood, flee immediately.

[fadewalking]

Bellara lowkey pissing me off with all this feeling guilty bs

[okthisway]

had a dream i was at some interactive theatre play where an actor asked me what my goal is and i replied "my current mission is to find morrigan". he pointed at her sitting in the audience and flemeth appeared. morrigan started mumbling to herself "no no she wasn't supposed to find me" and i felt so guilty and kept saying sorry. flemeth said "don't blame yourself dear, i would've found her either way", then snapped her fingers and morrigan disappeared. "she'll find a way out. she always does"

[karliahs]

still thinking about how lacklustre veilguard's non-solas villains feel and how the one elven god they did give interesting complexity and motivations to is mythal, and yet she isn't a present antagonist in this game for some reason. so now I keep imagining the hypothetical version of veilguard where your antagonists are solas and mythal who are also fighting each other

one couple's toxic divorce energy is tearing thedas apart

[rederiswrites]

Alright, I've got to get the gripes out. Doesn't mean you have to read it. If you love the game you probably shouldn't. This is for people who are really disappointed or angry about...things and would like to feel like they're not alone.

This is not about the absolute value of Veilguard. I enjoyed the game and I am, if anything, enjoying it more on the second playthrough. Like all the other installations, inevitably it is its own thing. Some franchises are just logical continuations of their previous installments, but Dragon Age has never been like that and I sure wouldn't expect it after this long since the last installment.

[Edited to add that I reblog locked it but 100% encourage sharing your feelings in the replies or even my dms. It's fine to talk about it! I want to talk about it!]

That said, my biggest gripes about Veilguard:

The sanitizing of the Crows

Come on now. I even defended you, Bioware! Before the game, I said, nahhhh they won't make the Crows Good Guys just because of Lucanis! Lucanis was tortured too! Well, they didn't do that, I guess. They did it as part of a much larger pattern of ironing out the moral grey areas the franchise was formerly known for.

The Crows are Patriots! Well, they are. And also, though you wouldn't know it, slavers and torturers and murderers of children. You'd be forgiven for not realizing that, considering the creation of the feel good House for orphans who really wanna be contract killers. But it is pretty foundational lore and all. There is the like, one previous Crow character, whom they wrote as going on a righteous mission to kill Crows, because of the whole them being bad thing.

What was being raised by the head of the Crows like, Lucanis? Torture? Hahaha funny oh you mean literally. Literally your grandmother tortured and starved you and never gave you the slightest choice in your life and you've accepted that because you accept the logic that it was necessary. But again. That's based on my knowledge of material outside this game.

Any previous game would have reveled in that! Do you ally yourself with these people, this objectively bad organization full of people who don't see themselves as bad at all? Because they are very good at killing, and that's what you need! But this game just makes them good guys. No moral dilemma needed. Nope, we like black and white now.

And speaking of which,

The dehumanization of the Antaam

Ew. Ew ew ew.

Gimme a minute and I'll come up with something better to say but seriously? Ew.

They neither look nor sound like any of the other qunari characters. They sound like animals, literally. Exactly once does one make the slightest attempt to do anything but attack you--and then he attacks you anyway. Not a single one deserts. I guess the lesson here is that apparently qunari really do become mindless beasts without the structure and discipline of the Qun??? Ew. No thank you.

I know, you gotta have faceless mooks. In Inquisition we fought rebel mages for absolutely no good reason but that they attacked us. In da2 thugs literally fell from the sky. But the absolutely comprehensive way in which the Antaam never spoke for themselves, as actual people... Wow.

Imagine. Imagine if we could have actually negotiated an agreement with a group of them, for that final battle. Would that have been so impossible? To fight mages?! Imagine if we'd had a former Antaam companion. Imagine if he'd been mulling over what the Arishok, Sten, the OG proof that qunari are NOT animals outside the Qun, said before the Antaam rebelled.

Mythal: basically a nice mother goddess!

What. What. What.

In this, the culmination of her sins, the finale of Solas' millennia of taking the blame for shit she set in motion, Mythal is... Flat as hell. Millennia of her scheming. Surviving. Using and abusing her children, arguably using and abusing Solas, seducing and manipulating and whatever it takes to nudge things her way. And now she's just... Kinda imperious I guess? And Morrigan just has her memories and nothing is bad about that ever. Huh.

The thing is, I was never against Mythal, in all her complex nastiness. We didn't know what her game was! I just wanted to know! What made it all worth it? What was the plan?

Well I guess the plan was--nothing? Don't worry about it. I guess.

Side note, the design work on the Mythal fragment was some Computer Animation Is My Passion, early 2000's Barbie straight to VHS looking shit. Profoundly disappointing. Did you even try.

Tell, don't show

Is the strange new voice in the blight coming from over there really horrifying? Or did you just say it was roughly fifteen times, but then actually it was just a big blob of Blight that you had to shoot extra times? Is the Butcher cruel? Or did Teia and Viago just tell us he was cruel with absolutely no detail whatsoever? Is Minrathous really blighted if you choose to save Treviso? Or are there just more beggars and some rubble and literally one blighted character? And so on, and so forth.

Remember that popular post not long ago, about how one of the great joys of Dragon Age was the sifting through unreliable narrators? Piecing together Avvar epic poetry and fragments of ancient elvhen runes and Andrastian canticles to try to guess what actually happened. The unique and unusual (in fiction) joy of the historiography of it all? We got to actively engage with the discovery. We got to piece together that Solas was the Dread Wolf, bit by difficult to find bit.

The fridge horror of it all could be really incredible. Making us work it out for ourselves meant that we experienced it much more intimately. It was an incredible storytelling tool.

Yeah I guess we just watch movies about it now. Just plug in the DVD Wolf statuette and now we know. And the codexes are reduced to flavor text and puzzle clues.

And last but definitely most,

Flat writing

Look man I know that's subjective as shit but it was. A lot of it was. You either agree or you don't, but for me, it was never more obvious than in the moments of contrast, when it was up to standard. The conversation with the Butcher. Every minute with Solas. Spite.

Contrast the Butcher (intense! Passionate! Creepy fucken pale face Harkonnen vibes! Deranged but genuine love for Treviso!) with the Dragon King (I don't even know what to put here. You don't even have to fight him! He just...blusters, and then there's a dragon, and then Taash shoves him and he falls over.)

It's just...I could probably forgive a lot of the stuff that went before if it was just more compellingly written.

Even here I absolutely will not be getting into character complaints. Those are too personal, and frankly I think people should keep them to private conversations. They have too much potential to hurt people for too little gain.

Sigh. I'm done now. I will try to focus on the good and the creative because I think that contributes a great deal more to everything and everyone. But for now, let me contemplate what could have been.

[hoboblaidd]

The Solas and Mythal relationship is fascinating, and I'm going to examine it from this thesis: Solas was the Left Hand of Mythal in much the same way a hardened Leliana was the Left Hand of the Divine. Bear with me on this.

Dread Wolf Solas and Leliana are incredibly similar - they both have titles that became their identity (Dread Wolf, Nightingale); they both manage a highly effective covert network of agents across the continent; they both deal in information and subterfuge; and they devotedly served a powerful religious figure. Just as Leliana had Justinia on a (arguably unearned) pedestal, Solas strangely does the same with Mythal despite how contradictory that is to his anti-slavery, anti-establishment views. Solas and Leliana are also reformers on a grand scale - she wants to change everything about the Chantry to make it more inclusive, and he wanted to free the slaves and create an egalitarian elven society.

There is a significant power imbalance between Solas and Mythal that also mirrors Leliana-Justinia. Mythal was the stabilizing power in Elvhenan and acted as a god. Justinia sought to be the stabilizer whose "divine" authority came from Andraste and the Maker. Solas was, at most, a free and devoted servant/spymaster, just like Leliana. The Solas-Mythal relationship is complicated by the fact that she was a slaver, given the vallaslin and the Sentinels' bindings. But she doesn't seem to have punished Solas for removing his vallaslin, as Cole's Trespasser line suggests. Perhaps she even respected his choice. It puts them on a slightly more equal footing (I'm not excusing her slavery, that's a separate post on her lore).

I don’t think that Solas started his rebellion because of Mythal's murder. I think he had her blessing to wreak the same subtle discord that the Nightingale did - destabilizing the other gods' holds, fomenting dissent, etc. All of which would strengthen Mythal's position. Given his comments about courtly intrigue, I think the Dread Wolf shadowed his powerful patron to events and gathered intel, just like the Nightingale. It's also reminiscent of Celene-Briala in TME to a point. I think that's how it went until Mythal died, and then it became an all out guerilla war.

Speaking of Celene-Briala, people have speculated, based on the red lyrium idol and his devotion, that Solas and Mythal may have been lovers. To me, this is the same as the dialogue we get with Leliana when asking if she and Justinia were lovers: No, Leliana says emphatically. It was both different and more than lovers. It was respect and devotion. (I wouldn't put anything past the Evanuris, including the icky power imbalance, master-servant type 'relationship' that Solas-Mythal would be, but it doesn't track for me from a narrative standpoint unless Veilguard reveals that every god was thirsty for him).

For extra Evanuris Family Drama, his closeness to Mythal as a Left Hand and confidante could further inflame the Andruil situation - not only was he close to Ghilan'nain, but he may be closer to the Mother than her own daughter.

To round this out, Solas' statues in Mythal's territory flank hers or are posted at doorways as if on guard (probably the origin of the Dalish practice of placing Fen'harel statues at the edges of their camps to ward off evil). In her death, he is an instrument of her vengeance on the Evanuris - sealing the gods away as justice on those who betrayed her. It’s reminiscent of Leliana at the start of Inquisition. She was supposed to be the protector of Justinia, she failed, and now she’s out to right that wrong to the extent she can.

[vigilskept]

usually agree with ur takes but solas having no regard for peoples lives is literally the only part epler got right about him lmao

honestly i feel like the post i think you're responding to is already full of the clearest evidence of exactly how much he does care, but for the sake of argument:

this cutscene from disrupt and conquer mission in datv is arguably the one where he comes off the most callous. he sends those spirits to their deaths while misleading them about the purpose of their mission and justifies it by saying (1) there was no other way to achieve their goal (2) he didn't twist them against their purpose

and yeah! there's some pretty cold pragmatism going on there!

now here's a conversation with a different general getting challenged about their choice to sacrifice some of their soldiers in order to try to win the war at hand:

they were my men. i know exactly how much i lost that day.

that, to me, is the crux of it. it's not a question of whether these characters are willing to sacrifice those under their command. they absolutely are. they would do it again, if they had to. it doesn't follow that they see no value in those lives.

when it comes to it, they're willing to sacrifice people they have far closer (& more complicated) relationships with! i don't think there's any merit to the argument that loghain saw no value to cailan's life or that solas saw none in felassan or mythal's. valuing their lives is simply not enough.

in a position of command, their burden is to weigh those lives against those of everyone else they're responsible for.

it's not a position either is comfortable being in or one they covet out of a desire to exercise power over others.

yet they've shouldered that responsibility, and having done so, this responsibility is what shapes them.

it's not out of cruelty or indifference that loghain calls the retreat at ostagar or that solas sends those spirits against the evanuris, knowing that the deaths of those under their command will inevitably result from those choices. they're looking at the bigger picture of the war, and making the call that the consequences of not making those choices would be far worse.

to let ferelden fall to the blight or to the tyranny of orlais would be worse. to let the evanuris continue to exercise their tyranny over the elven people and draw on the power of the blight would be worse.

coming back around to solas, specifically, the very first regret of his we get to see is that he took a body because mythal needed his wisdom for her war. this is the very event that he views as having "twisted him against his purpose." knowing that his goal of tearing down the veil will lead him down a similar path, he will tell a romanced inquisitor "i would not have you see what i become."

none of those things suggest that this character is indifferent to the kinds of things he's done, and that's before veilguard has him trapped in a literal prison of regret.

and to pull directly from @/mythalism's post:

tldr: i don't think it could be clearer that what he has done and what he feels he has to do weighs on solas. he continues down this path because he believes it is still his responsibility/burden to make these choices despite that.

[intpstyle]

Dragon Age: The Veilguard Review Pt. 2 - "How to move on?", On Solas & Rook

DA:TV Spoilers ahead!

Pt. 1 is here

Which brings me to Solas and Rook: how does Solas move on?

The fascinating thing about Solas is that …he doesn’t. He errs too much in both directions – he both takes too much personal responsibility and ascribes too much to systemic responsibility.  How is that possible? I suspect it is because, and here’s the kicker, he IS the system, in his mind. “You were never ready to make the sacrifices that leadership requires”, he says as he betrays Rook like he has betrayed the Inquisitor, like he has betrayed Felassan, like he has betrayed Mythal. There is so much he regrets but in his memory, we do not see him regretting the acts (like severing the Titans’ dreams or the fall-out of the war) as much as the precursors, the moments where he failed to convince others of his own better judgement / was (arguably) coerced into making a choice or remaining passive (like taking a physical form; like being unable to convince the Evanuris not to become “gods” and conquer; unable to convince them not to use the Blight; etc.)    

It makes sense: he is wisdom, but he is also pride. Being humble would require him to acknowledge the limitations of his power and influence; being prideful is what leads him to “…but what if?” again and again. It is the same rebellious stubbornness that leads him to oppose the tight grip and tyranny of the Evanuris, the same voice that whispers: “No. It could be better. I should have known better. I could make it better. I am wisdom. I know the way. This is why I took a physical form. This is my job. My failing.” Instead of accepting that his own power only goes so far; that he is only part of the system and not all of it, he instead runs against this wall again and again, thinking that it was an error in approach and strategy (and those can be fixed!), not in power and assumed responsibility. He IS the system; he just has to get the system RIGHT. “I must fix what I have broken,” indeed.

And this is where Rook comes in. When mourning him, Dream-Varric tells them: “Shit. Didn’t you learn anything from this place? /I/ made the choice. To talk to him. To try to reach him. (…) My decision. My sacrifice. And you don’t get to take that from me.” That is the vital lesson that Solas never learned: it is not all on him. The other Evanuris made their choices, and he was just one player among many. Each time his actions had unforeseen consequences, he tried to go back, fix it, and undo what had been done, on a grander and grander scale, rather than facing the consequences head on, forgiving himself, and working with this new reality. This is the lesson that Rook learns in the Fade Prison – “how do we move on”? By accepting the current circumstance for what they are, and letting go of the assumption that everything could be under your control if you had just tried hard enough (fitting for a protagonist whose biggest skill is “winging it”). There will always be other people, other thoughts, other approaches, and each person is responsible for their own decisions; you just for your own. Ironically, the sooner you accept that, the more power you will have – as can be seen in all the companions’ quests, and the “good” Rook/Solas ending. Solas: “The things that I have done…” Mythal: “Are not for you alone to bear, my friend. The many wrongs we did, we did together.”

This admission of guilt outside of himself; this owning up to responsibility, allows Solas, for the first time, to see himself as an equal player with others, not one who has failed to set the stage just so, and to leave his denial behind – to stop trying to fix the past so it all never happened – and to accept the consequences of his actions and move on. For the first time, he says “I will seek atonement”, not “I will fix my mistakes”. Whether it makes complete sense in-universe to leave the Veil where it is, I cannot say, but as an emotional truth, there is real pay-off to this: Solas accepts that the past has happened (really, fully, truly accepts it) and that it cannot be undone, no matter the trickery or blood and tears poured into the open wound. We must learn to live with and integrate what we have done and who we are, not deny or reject it as part of ourselves – that is the lesson learned in all the companions’ quests, and it is what Solas has now learned, too. For the first time in a long time, Solas believes in a future.

As it is, this is a beautiful story worth telling. But for two reasons, I cannot rate the entirety of Veilguard anywhere above 7/10. The first is Rook, the second the issue of community.

On Rook: like with Taash, I do believe that the ideas are all here. It is the execution that makes me a little sad. The idea clearly was to contrast Rook with Solas (which worked particularly well for my headstrong male elf Rook, which I loved – also shout-out to Alex Jordan, the male British VA, who absolutely killed it!), and to show that, by the end, Rook has moved beyond Solas’ self-imprisonment to become a true leader of their people. Cool. But where’s the arc?

All of the companions (and Solas) have to face something that they were afraid to confront in their own lives. What is Rook afraid of? I think the game wants this to be Varric’s death, and thus, the moment they accept that he is gone, he is able to escape the Fade Prison and defeat Solas. But WHY are they scared of Varric’s death? Again, I think the game WANTS this to be the burden of leadership but one of my biggest notes on the game is “burden of leadership where?”. For what I suspect were get-on-with-it game mechanics and time-constraint reasons, Rook clicks into leadership with complete ease (or at least my predominantly red/assertive Rook did – I suppose it feels different when choosing the teary-eyed responses?).

From the beginning, Rook is hyper-competent, never questioned in their position as a leader (why not Harding? Why not Neve? Especially since it seems to be dead-Varric appointing them?), and never falters under pressure. There is not one moment where I could say that Rook truly messed up and had to learn from their mistakes/accept the consequences of their actions. True, I did also play them as very competent and didn’t, for example, rush into the final battle without bolstering the factions and training my companions, but if this is an integral part of the story that every player should experience, it should be hard-coded into game.

Ultimately, Rook felt to me more like the platonic ideal of a character than a real person, which is a shame. Personally, I think this storyline would have lent itself really well to bringing back the Dragon Age prologues from DA:O – show me Rook messing up a mission (and let us really get to know the factions)! Let them start from the bottom up! Let them grapple with what it means to be a leader by constantly casting their mind back on what they have done wrong! Let them be an even stronger mirror to Solas!

Again, I think that the game wanted to do something like this with the Varric reveal and you “sacrificing” Davrin/Assan or Harding, but neither is actually Rook’s “fault” by any measure, and they come so late in the game that the Fade Prison sequence has to really rush you through the process of acceptance. Here, too, I would have loved more of a feeling of time passing by – it is the equivalent of the lost-in-the-snow scene in Inquisition (which I loved!), and just a bit more artistry would have really taken an already great chapter up a notch (e.g. show Rook’s vision blurring, passing out, coming to – “where am I? How long have I been here?”, show the surroundings cracking, seasons changing, Rook trying desperately to remember their friends, their system failing – “when did I last eat? Drink? Do I still need to? Am I dead?”, really driving home the thematic significance of the grieving process before ascending to acceptance – being haunted by statues appearing suddenly behind them whenever they turn, being thrown back into memories where the companions are washed out, etc. And let them REALLY grieve if they lost their love interest!)

That is to say: the other characters have to grapple – Rook gets to move on almost immediately. I also saw a tumblr post (which I unfortunately did not save; please let me know if you find it) that says that what was truly missing from DA:TV was a final scene in which the door closes behind Rook, job well done, and Rook just falls on their knees and all the pressure comes slamming down, and they break with a sob, a scream, or a laugh (with their LI or the whole team to catch them), and God, yes. The scene in Trespasser where the Inquisitor gets to actually lose their shit for a moment (“Shit! Damn it! We save Ferelden, and they’re angry! We save Orlais, and they’re angry! We close the breach! Twice! And my own hand wants to kill me! Could one thing in this fucking world just stay fixed!?”) solidified them as one of my favourite characters of all time; it made them feel real. Rook? Gets none of that. (And I say that, again, as someone who played a red/assertive Rook. He got to be angry plenty, but rarely every felt like he was letting us, the players, or his companions into the depths of his soul. Vulnerable? Insecure? That’s for the companions, not the capital-h Hero.) Unfortunately, that leaves Rook’s character development somewhat underbaked.

Pt. 3 is here

[vodkacheesefries]

big spoilers for dragon age the veilguard from early access players beneath the cut.

Also lengthy rambling/opinions.

proceed at thine own peril

In theory I'm okay with things being boiled down into a handful of simple questions to help new incoming players establish a background for their game.

HOWEVER, we're only getting three, and those are:

Did your Inquisitor disband/keep the Inquisition?

Did they vow to save/stop Solas?

Who did they romance?

That's it. This is. A choice.

I get it. it's been 10 years since Inquisition came out and longer since DA2 and DAO. A lot of people probably haven't played the early games, and there are hundreds if not thousands of choices across all three games that including them in Veilguard would be difficult.

But there are a handful of choices/decisions that it is absolutely wild to me that they aren't including in Veilguard's questionnaire. At the bare minimum I was hoping for the following:

What was the fate of your Grey Warden?

What was the fate of your Hawke?

Who drank from the Well of Sorrows?

Did your Inquisitor disband/keep the Inquisition?

Did your Inquisitor vow to save/stop Solas?

That's it! Only two more questions than we already have, and two of them are the same as the ones we're getting. All of the important story choices, and small choices that you could make in the prior games boil down to the fate of your character in that game so there's no need to get more detailed than that.

For example, obviously if your Warden survived the final battle, the dark ritual took place, so there's no need to ask more about it. Obviously if Hawke was left in the fade, they didn't go to Weisshaupt, and Alistair/Loghain/Stroud stayed in the Fade. Obviously if Morrigan drank from the well of Sorrows, your Inquisitor isn't going to be linked to Mythal, but Morrigan is.

Those feel like arguably the most important story beats from the previous games and I feel like that still keeps it simple enough and doesn't rely on importing potentially thousands of choices you made across the three prior games, while still explaining just enough without having to explain too much to new players.

(side note: I suppose if we want to get extra fancy we can add a question for "Who did your Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor romance" because callbacks to those relationships have always been fun, especially if we're getting any sort of cameo of past companions. Which at this point, I don't think we are.)

As far as past player characters returning, I get why that's hard to do because there's so many different endings for the Warden, and even Hawke post Inquisition. Would I like for them to show back up? Sure. But I'm okay if they don't.

TBH the most I've been hoping for is that maybe somewhere in a level/mission you're on, maybe with Davrin, you could find an easy to miss crumpled up letter/codex entry on it talking about how if your Warden was still alive they found a cure and disappeared into a well deserved retirement and to not bother them with anymore end of the world bullshit ever again.

Hell, I'd even accept it if it mentioned they'd started hearing the Calling and went to the Deep Roads and they're sorry they couldn't do more. I just want to know what happens to them. It doesn't have to be a pivotal plot point or anything.

Crumbs.

I am begging for crumbs, Bioware.

PS: I know it sounds like I'm being incredibly critical of the game, but I am actually very excited for it and I do think I'll enjoy it, despite any ties, or lack thereof, to prior games. I'm a big fan of being critical of the things you enjoy.

Now if you want me to get really critical because I don't like something, ask me how I feel about Inquisition because WHOOO boy I could give a Ted Talk about how much I dislike Inquisition.

[keepittoyourshelf]

Sometimes it really is all about sex.

Let’s talk about morally gray characters again. I just finished playing Dragon Age: Inquisition in prep for the Veilguard release and Solas is literally the textbook example of what morally gray character is. No spoiler warnings because the game is fucking ten years old, already.

TLDR is Solas is one of your companions (romanceable if you’re playing a female elf) who actually turns out to be an ancient elven spirit of some sort that is actively working to undermine your efforts. He was responsible for creating the Veil, as an act of revenge against his fellow elven spirit-gods for killing his bestie Mythal. This unfortunately had unforeseen consequences of cutting the elven people off from the Fade and ensuring that they were no longer immortal. He’s now working to reverse this mistake, despite the fact that doing so will essentially destroy the player’s world and wipe out all non-elves. Or something to that effect.

If you play the Trespasser DLC (highly recommended since I don’t think Veilguard will make much sense otherwise, and you will not get the full impact of the Solas romance if you pursue that path), you’ll get to talk to Solas at the end and he is genuinely regretful and remorseful, and not just for how this will affect his friend/lover, but how it will affect all people. This is despite knowing the cost. He knows the cost, is fully aware of it, is remorseful about the pain and suffering it will cause, and yet is willing to move forward anyway.

Another example I’ve referred to before? Kaz Brekker. Think of how fucked up what he did to Pekka Rollins re: his kid was. Disregard how fucked up Pekka was in turn, because two wrongs don’t make a right, right? Kaz didn’t care. Kaz has never really cared who gets hurt so long as it’s not people he actually cares about and he achieves his ends. It’s literally anything goes. We as readers can still “cheer” for him conscience free because ostensibly the people he’s acting out against are all pretty much trash human beings, but you have to think that statistically innocents are caught in the crossfire, and yet Kaz dgaf. No explanations, even though they would make total sense in context without actually justifying the actions he takes (because they are wrong), just revenge. We as readers aren’t necessarily expected to like what he does. But we should understand it.

Lestat de Lioncourt is the same way. It’s obvious in the books, but quicker and easier to digest via the TV show that’s currently airing on AMC. Lestat is straight-up a petty, jealous, vengeful bitch (though he never beat Louis the way it’s shown on the show, so take that aspect with a grain of salt). Lestat also suffered a seriously abusive childhood and his experience of being turned was tantamount to rape. He doesn’t always go after evil-doers, though later on in the series he goes after them almost exclusively, with the occasional slip-up. Yet we still love him and cheer for him. Is it because he’s handsome and charming and witty? Yeah, mostly. Does he make excuses for what he does? Not really. He might explain his motivations, but he doesn’t excuse the evilness of his actions. He knows they’re wrong and does them anyway.

Astarion from Baldur’s Gate 3 is another great example, though his morally grey status can be considered arguable depending on whether or not you Ascend him (and consequently doom 7000 presumably innocent souls, including children). For those that have played, you know Astarion’s past is as traumatic as it gets. That in itself explains away a lot of his attitude, though I personally believe he was a sassy dick even before all that happened. The way he manipulates Tav and the other characters though, all of that is motivated by self-preservation as a result of his past abuse. If you explore his romance path, you talk to him enough to know that he knows what he’s doing is wrong, and he’s regretful for it, to a point. He’s definitely not regretful about every mean thing he’s done though, that needs to be made clear. Does he offer excuses? No, not a one. He explains his motivations though, and he’s sorry for whatever pain it causes insofar as it relates to Tav (either as a friend or a lover), but everyone else can pretty much fuck off. So yeah, he’s not free of his asshole status just by virtue of being abused, but it does explain his actions enough to let the player still like him and romance him in spite of it all (if the hair alone wasn’t enough to make you turn a blind eye, that is).

This is all leading up to me once again explaining that RHYSAND FROM ACOTAR IS NOT MORALLY GREY. He never has been and he never will be. What is the difference between him and anyone I’ve mentioned above? Chapter 54 in ACOMAF really says it all. Up until that point, Rhysand was the villain. Feyre could not in good conscience explore her attraction to him because he was the bad guy, and head of the bad guys. Literally everyone else in that world thinks of him as evil and is fearful of him. This is by Rhysand’s own design for, well, reasons. Until Chapter 54, where he deconstructs, in practically bulleted-list format, every single bad thing he has been shown to do in the books up until that point. This is needed because since Feyre is narrating, she’s not privy to his inner thoughts and can’t possibly know he’s not really evil, and thus cannot justify fucking him. Killing kids and innocent people? He was under the influence of Amarantha. In order to save the majority, a small minority had to be sacrificed. Let me give a tip here: If someone is saying they do something bad for the greater good, they are 1). Most definitely not morally grey and 2). Quite possibly a nazi. Abusing Feyre mentally and physically? Necessary to keep his cover, so he could continue to protect the majority for the greater good, or undermine Amarantha, which he never really managed to do in the 50 years he was held captive, or whatever. Sometimes he did it because he could find no other way to be near her because even then he was So In LoOoOvE. The whole point of that fucking chapter is to show the reader that there were good/romantic motivations behind bad actions, which in SJM-speak equals good. Unless you’re Tamlin, in which case you are still evil. Why does this need to happen? So SJM can write mid-level smut guilt free.

Chalk it up to religious guilt or societal pressure, but Kaz, Solas, Astarion, Lestat, and others have shown time and time again that you can do bad things and still be considered good enough to justify romantic interest, or friendly, if that’s your bag. The line in the sand really comes in having awareness that what you did was bad, not really caring about it, and most importantly, not needing to completely erase a bad past based on one or two actions/statements/beliefs (or because they’re just good looking). Even if you do not romance them, you can at least understand some of what they do, even when it is bad, because of their history, their obvious remorse, or just their fucking charisma etc.

One could argue that Chapter 54 would not have been required if SJM didn’t think we needed to read Chapter 55 guilt-free, or at least without being able to so easily equate Rhys with Ted Bundy (a handsome, charming psychopath). Rhysand does not express remorse over the acts themselves, so much as he expresses remorse over the fact that the fact that he did them, for whatever reason, could prevent him from getting what he wants. The reader, by virtue of Feyre’s limited and biased POV, is not given permission to let Rhys into their hearts and hoohas until we know that he was forced to do bad things. Bad things that never, ever would have happened otherwise. So it’s okay that she wants to have sex with him.

Solas, Lestat, Kaz, Astarion - they all do bad things. They all know they are doing bad things. Not everything they do is bad (that’s an important point to make), but when they do bad things, they do them with full knowledge that they are bad things, and that good people will suffer. Sometimes they care, sometimes they don’t. The reader cannot say unequivocally that they are either good or bad, because their actions can be understood when looked at in context of their history or their motivations. They cannot be entirely excused. I.e. A wrong thing done for the right reasons is still a wrong thing. It’s still murder even when it’s done in self-defense, and you always have a choice. You never have to do something. The distinction is whether you are willing to do a wrong thing to avoid something you don’t like happening (I.e. you or someone you love dying, or feeling intense pain). However, that doesn’t make murder suddenly not murder. A reason is not a justification. You just choose to do it for a reason. If you don’t (and are doing it for fun) then you are just evil, and most definitely not morally grey.

The key difference is that the reader (via Feyre) is told repeatedly that Rhysand is no longer bad for having done wrong things because he did them for the right reasons. He is no longer the villain he was in book 1 by virtue of Chapter 54 in book 2. Solas is still the villain (and in fact is the main antagonist of Veilguard); so are Kaz, Lestat, and Astarion, depending on who you ask. When other characters in their respective worlds offer their personal opinions on said characters, some will be favorable, some not. We are at least allowed the opportunity to see a different POV and make that choice for ourselves. There’s continuous ambiguity. The ambiguity is the literal grey area.

This is not the case with Rhysand and this is why he can never be morally grey. We are told he was the noble hero all along, he is literally retconned as such (much like Spike was in BtVS, because Buffy-as-heroine could never justify living someone like him otherwise). He was reformatted so much, in fact, that he’s actually thought by some to be deserving of being king of all Prythian. Not just other characters, but by the reading audience at large. His bad things are no longer bad because he did them for the right reasons (or that dogwhistle of a statement, for the greater good).

How do I know this? Because Rhysand is consistently juxtaposed, by SJM’s own hand, by virtue of Feyre’s narration, with Tamlin. Over and over and over again. Now, technically Tamlin has also done bad things for the right reasons (protecting Feyre, helping his subjects) but he remains the villain. If another character tries to say Rhysand is bad (I think Tarquin does, but I could be wrong) they are either wrong or just don’t understand or are under emotional duress and are incapable of seeing the truth. Tamlin does not deserve to have his actions looked at in context (the way we do with Solas, Kaz, etc) because….well, I don’t have a good explanation for that, because SJM herself hasn’t offered one, other than repeatedly showing every other character in the book saying he’s a bad guy and doesn’t deserve to be forgiven. Purely by comparison’s sake, there is literally no reason in a fact based world where one can say without question that what Tamlin did to Feyre is worse than anything Rhysand has done. They both physically hurt her. They have both confine her without their consent. You know what Tamlin has never done though? Touch Feyre sexually against her will. He didn’t engineer situations where he mentally abused her just so he could be near her. That’s not romantic, it’s sociopathic. Fantasy is fantasy, sure, but you can’t defend that even in context of an alleged “fantasy morality” because we are humans and can only look at these things on the context of lived human experiences. There is no situation in real life, anywhere, where mentally or sexually abusing someone is justifiable for any reason, ever. Bottom line, all arguments to the contrary invalid. Any time someone comes out against Rhys, they either retract their statements, are reviled themselves (hello Nesta) in the narrative, or just in the fan community itself.

I haven’t read the third Crescent City book because I finally reached my limit for bullshit, but from the discourse I’ve seen Bryce has been getting a lot of hate for thinking Rhysand is a dick, or something to that effect. Right or wrong, it’s at least more evidence of SJM and the audience’s own bias in favor of Rhysand….and that’s really who these screeds are directed at. The audience. Rhys defenders are wrong when they say he is morally grey. He is not when other characters aren’t allowed to voice opinions against him without having the narrative over-emphasize their own faults at the same time. The text must remain objective and somewhat open-ended. SJM is as biased a writer as they come.

So I guess you could excuse all the word vomit here and just say that actually being considered morally grey is predicated on multiple opinions (it doesn’t necessarily need to be multiple narrators/POVs, but the audience needs to be presented with an alternative opinion in a way where it’s not immediately dismissible). SJM has never shown any indication that that will happen, because even when opinions other than Feyre’s are introduced they either echo her sentiments or we have someone else shooting them down in response, or the character in question is repeatedly shown to be flawed themselves.

Moral of the story? Stop wasting time on SJM and play Dragon Age: Inquisition or Baldur’s Gate 3 instead. Story is better, there’s so much room for interpretation (which makes replay/re-read value increase) and the dudes are just hotter. Sorry not sorry.

Even if Solas does look like an egg. He’s a hot egg.

[broodwolf221]

full davg spoilers cws: mentions of slavery and abuse

actually i do have more to say about mythal

i have been all over the place over the past 10 years with my assumptions about mythal and more broadly about the evanuris. never really let myself commit to any one read, but they were essentially divided into a few different umbrella reads:

mythal as an (im)mortal being, but not a spirit - in this read, solas is fundamentally different from her

mythal as an (im)mortal being combined with a spirit - an 'abomination' except not. in this read, she is similar to solas, but still different

mythal as a spirit. obviously in this read, she is the same as solas

and from there it divvied up into more particular reads:

1 & 2:

solas is mythal's slave

solas is mythal's servant

solas is mythal's chosen

solas as mythal's chosen is a warrior; a general; a tool; her partner; and/or her friend

solas was known to her as a spirit

solas was not known to her as a spirit - he was incognito

solas was not INTENTIONALLY known to her as a spirit, but she knew

3:

while solas could still arguably be a slave or servant in this read, that never felt realistic to me

thus, in a spirit & spirit read, i always felt that solas would be her chosen, her partner, and/or her friend

i've written many of these iterations, as they fit in differently with different stories. i still enjoy many of these approaches from a fanfic perspective, but i think their choice in what to make canon was very, very important - and very, very good!

in canon, mythal asked solas to help her - and solas, fully aware and not under any compulsion or force, agreed

there was no indication whatsoever to me of any force, abuse, coercion, or binding anywhere in their narrative. there was, of course, regret and a deeply complex relationship, but the one does not equate the other

mythal is one of solas' primary regrets. he doesn't hate her, but they did horrible things together. they did them willingly, with as much insight into what it would entail as was possible, although ofc many aspects ending up surprising them both. despite being the key figure in his regrets, he still cares for her - so, so incredibly much that it has shaped a large portion of his life, and their relationship is one of his most foundational ones

i won't deny that she has power - or, more accurately, sway - over him. but i will always point out that he has sway over her, too. because even after his rebellion had begun, after she felt betrayed by him, she still listened to him about the blight being accessed

and the evanuris killed her. or did their best to kill her

that's a big part of solas' regrets around her. not because she was a monster, or because she was his 'bad end' - or 'bad beginning,' i suppose - but because he is shaped deeply by his regrets, and he regrets what he feels is his complicity in her death, her murder

his sway over her is also abundantly evident in the final regret mural. i've said it before and likely will again because it is deeply profound to me and imo central to their relationship and characters: mythal let solas kill (or 'kill') her - even though she did not fully agree with his plan! he had NO means of overpowering her or taking what he wanted. the position of power was 110% hers. but he asked and she agreed. she let herself be destroyed, or risk being destroyed, for him. it is the inverse of his coming into being. it is so, so incredibly poignant and meaningful

an evil, steepled-fingers read of mythal is interesting as an hc. it's compelling in its way. but i am beyond thrilled that we got a more compassionate read of her in canon, one that doesn't try to justify her actions but does contextualize them, and solas' as well. they did what they thought was necessary. at times their idea of what was necessary diverged, but they still mattered to each other

mythal is a victim. a victim of the evanuris, her 'family', those she ruled alongside. and flemythal hurt morrigan, no question about that. and mythal - alongside solas! - did something horrible to the titans. the narrative didn't soften any of these edges, but they allowed her to be complex, nuanced, and layered; they allowed good intentions to lead to increasing corruption; they allowed her the same complexity that they've been good about allowing all their antagonists, villains, and even many of their monsters

and i appreciate that beyond words

[fenharels-teeth]

sorry to rant like this but i need to put my thoughts somewhere… s*lavellans are making me hate that ship more and more with each passing day. it’s just the hypocrisy for me lmao the audacity to say mythal/solas have some extreme power imbalance when they both posses godlike power (reminder that solas could hold off elgar’nan, who is arguably more powerful than mythal, singlehanded) the only imbalance being he served under her and was her second? she never controlled him and didn’t attempt to stop him rebelling, she even met him in secret during his rebellion! “you would not be the first to sacrifice your morals for love” wow it sounds like solas, a grown ass man, made his own choices. committing war crimes with mythal out of love? hot! good for him! now the s*lavellan power imbalance however… this is a relationship between a god/mortal (which i have no problem with btw) for a start. this man lied to, manipulated and used ANY inquisitor, romanced or not, to achieve his own ends (which was destroying the current world to bring back the ancient elven empire mind you). so tell me which power imbalance is the actual problematic one in this scenario: the one between two godlike beings who never lied to each other and knew who the other was implicitly, or the one between a god/mortal where said “god” lied to/manipulated/used the mortal to accomplish his goals of destroying the world the mortal lives in (to restore the world his dead lover wanted btw). it’s time to admit the actual problem s*lavellans have with mythal is that she had their pixel bf long before their oc existed and that his love for mythal is canon, and his love for their oc is dependent on player choice.

[iniziare]

Following my usual daily ventures on X and Tumblr, I realized that there's two things that I wanted to address/bring up. So, as per usual: spoilers. /echo, echo.

— The Fade prison is still failing. It needed replacement (which is referenced on several occasions, but a big one is during the memory with Mythal that expands on the DAI scene), and nothing in current lore tells me that this has changed in any way: it's still failing. Nothing I can find says that it now being bound to Solas, who is decently weaker than Elgar'nan, magically 'resolves' that issue. Therefore, his 'atonement' doesn't automatically equate to an 'eternal imprisonment', even if Lavellan's choice of words for going with him include 'forever', for she simply doesn't know what she's walking into or for how long, and instead enforces this tether to him from the deepest form of trust one one else could ever find (heartbreak.mp3). The atonement lasts as long as Rook decides as they hold the dagger, or until the Veil falls on its own. But that touches on another topic briefly: if you want to 'punish' Solas the most, or longest— though this ending is 'kindest' (not quite), it is the one that keeps him in the prison the longest. The dagger trick (this warrants a post on its own, and it's the only one I have writing beef with, character 'bias' aside), or the worst ending(s) all send the lyrium dagger with him, which, has you wonder if he's then simply given the opportunity to slice into the Veil, and slip out. Does the prison need a host, if said host holds the lyrium dagger? And even if he couldn't what could he do from inside after 'Pride' has been taunted, and 'punished' (in Rook's, and the audience's eyes), since again, he is in possession of his dagger? There is no atonement here, only resentment from a spirit that is now even closer to finding its fully perverted nature of a Pride demon. So I think if speaking morally across the board, which option is really 'for the greater good of Thedas', instead of personal resentment (though understandable)? But in that, I like that we're repeatedly told that we don't know, and we're making it up as we go. Out of all protagonists, Rook's personal journey of mental development is the most intriguing to me, and arguably (in my opinion), is the most 'human' in the sense that I think they give us the most relatable options of choice, understandable/relatable resentment being one of them. But anyway, I digress: if the atonement ending isn't chosen, then I definitely think the story isn't quite concluded, even though I don't believe that it ever really is.

— Blood magic. No, Solas has no loathing for the nature of blood magic at its essence. He stated so very clearly back in DAI during a conversation with the Inquisitor in Haven, and the bit of the conversation that pertains to my point goes as follows: 'Magic is magic, just as water is water, but it can be used in different ways. (...) Dalish magic is more practical, not needing Chantry approval, although they still frown on blood magic. Superstition.' And when you ask him to elaborate, 'You said censure against blood magic was a superstition...' He adds: 'Most modern cultures forbid blood magic. Publicly, even Tevinter disapproves of it. But as I said, magic is magic. It matters only in how it is used.' And yes, I can already hear it, I know exactly what point will be brought up (lucky me, I found a video that touches on this exact topic that showcases both scenes): and I want to say firmly that no, this is not a retcon, nor is it Solas changing his mind, nor is this a total and utter lie (he rarely, rarely lies that fully, and clearly). He simply states that he abhors the use of it, as in— he, himself, despises using it; which is why he so firmly says no to Cole, when the notion is brought up in DAI. Now yes, he did employ the use of blood magic in relation to Rook (the extents, I need to do research on, as it's obvious that Solas absolutely winged that part of this 'plan', but all of it is also a bit flimsily written due to, for starters, the details that Varric shares being incredibly personal at times, but I digress), and I see so many on X and whatnot complain of how this means that 'Solas changed his mind', no— what it intends to show you, is the ferocity with which he believes that he, and only he, is able to fix what he broke. The game intends to show you that over, and over again, and it is to prove just how far a spirit can be pushed from where it started. And no, stop approaching Solas as if he is your regular elf next door, or anything but exactly what he is: a spirit. Trying to sway a spirit from its nature is incredibly difficult (we'll go into Mythal, and the nature of his care, and devotion to her that started the journey of his spirit's perversion, another day), and that is literally the explanation behind what people are calling an 'inconsistency'. It's called desperation, but more so, the strength of a belief, or more specifically, how far something that is akin to being... the 'personification' of a belief can go in, well, its own belief. I think Solas has proven that one can go very far. The perversion of spirits, and the reality of what demons then truly are, is a tragedy that Dragon Age has been trying to prove to us for years. It doesn't take away the wrongs that they can do once they get twisted, but it's tragic, because spirits are benevolent; serene, and peaceful at their core. And it's kind of heartbreaking to know that something so purely good, can be pulled from that nature.

[treviso-nights]

idk dude i just think one of veilguard's greatest tragedies is how sad it is when a high-approval inquisitor reunites with solas at the end of the game.

this is someone who, regardless of what race and class you picked in inquisition, solas came to respect and even care for. despite solas fighting them every step of the way, the inquisitor is the illuminating force in his world. the inquisitor shows him right from wrong—shows him the value and personhood intrinsic to those in the world he didn't necessarily want but ended up in nevertheless.

there is an intimacy to friendship that cannot be understated here. there is an undeniable depth to the dynamic between a high-approval inquisitor and solas, who traveled together, shared space together, held long, philosophical debates together, ate together, celebrated together, mourned together, etc etc etc. the point is, they were together. the lack of a romantic connection does nothing to detract from the reality that this was a person solas trusted with his life on more than one occasion, and in veilguard, if you don't set the world state's inquisitor as romanced with solas, he just calls them... useful.

we already know that solas is rarely ever 100% truthful. we know he canonically kills his closest friends the moment they appear to diverge from his objective, so the label of "friend" is no true marker of what exactly friendship means to solas, because imo, we're not entirely sure (for a number of reasons).

what we are sure of is that the inquisitor experiences no real catharsis or relief at the end of veilguard, because they are not enough for him. a high-approval inquisitor is arguably the closest thing to a best friend solas has had in thousands of years, and it doesn't matter. it is only when you conjure mythal herself does he abandon his plan to tear down the veil and "end the inquisitor's people" (see trespasser), and that is only AFTER he tries to argue that it's not really mythal—it's just a fragment of her that he didn't even really kill.

a romanced lavellan inquisitor is the only kind of inquisitor who gets a "happy ever after" (depending on your definition), and only because she has 1) spent the last near decade cleaning up his messes 2) presumably expended the entirety of her resources just to find him again and 3) drop everything and rush to rook when they give the signal to.

but the inquisitor who is just a best friend to solas, ultimately, in every ending, loses that best friend. again. one way or another, solas is going through that veil, and when he does, it is with very little acknowledgement of the sacrifices and loyalty that inquisitor has made for/given him.

solavellan has been categorized as a tragedy by many in the fandom, and for good reason—but this is still another one.

except this tragedy, stays a tragedy.

[crossdressingdeath]

Morrigan, Varric and Solas are clearly writer's pets. And that's why I'm highly cautious about Veilguard. Two of those three characters have no reason to be there at all (like they gave Varric a send off in the last game ffs) and the third is clearly the villain despite the writers refusing to acknowledge that.

Varric and Solas I can more or less live with. Varric makes a good charismatic recruiting face for a team like this (and unlike Quiz's LI isn't a variable), seems to take a step back in the narrative after the prologue and has never been actively unpleasant to be around (although Bioware please let this man retire), and we were never going to escape Solas's involvement so I've made my peace with that. I can understand both of them being here. But Morrigan in DAI is just so fucking annoying, especially if you play Lavellan, and she really adds very little to the plot that couldn't be handled just as well by less self-satisfied characters. At least with Solas his divisive nature is partially handled by the fact we can probably kill him at the end of DAV!

Honestly I probably wouldn't mind Morrigan so much if it wasn't for how they keep going on about how important she is. Like... she really, really doesn't need to be here. We don't need more Mythal. The game isn't about the Evanuris, it's about Rook's fight against the Evanuris, we don't need a large Mythal presence for that (especially if they're going to keep claiming she's the good guy). Even if they want Morrigan here she should not be in a role so important it justifies giving her more trailer presence than several of the companions. Can we move forward? Please? Varric's presence is already a bit much and it seems like he's mostly going to sit around the Lighthouse waiting for us to talk to him after the prologue, Solas is only tolerable because he was set up as the villain from Trespasser (and arguably the end of DAI), Morrigan just should not be this important. The people moving the plot forward once the Veilguard is properly established should not be returning characters, not if they want to justify slimming down the worldstate choices as much as they have. I'm ready for the writing in this series to move forward! Stop dragging it backwards by making the plot rely on returning characters!

[yokelish]

Or wait were you asking about Solas/Mythal from the perspective of human vs elf or non ancient elf vs ancient elf?

Her recognizing all of these beings as real and valuable while being someone he looks up to? And him having to grapple with that (or repress it)

Yeah, I'm asking about this human vs. elf perspective. Solas basically calls humans...well.... Fucking morons.

"Humans are shortsighted. Brutish. Blind to the beauty of the Fade."

I dunno Solas. I've been in the Fade six times (twice as Warden, once as Hawke, twice as Inquisitor. +1 more of you are mage Warden. Jesus. ). I don't have a strong preference for it to be honest. Irritates my eyes.

So imagine how it would paralyze his perspective. Mythal calling this shortsighted, arrogant, ignorant, blind, brutish human her daughter. Arguably, Mythal was surrounded by Evanuris before but still...