#mithrun and his former love

[bastardlybonkers]

thinking about the parallels between dunmeshi and beastars. consumption as an act of love. to love is to consume and to be consumed. you cannot gorge yourself because if you take everything then there is nothing left to be loved, and you cannot let yourself be gorged completely because then you will be empty, gone. i could think about this forever

[voidpumpkin]

A definite theme of dungeon meshi is that of selfishness and selflessness with pretty much every character defined by these two things in some way

most obviously there's the winged lion who's entire existence is defined by selfishness, he just consumes, consumes and consumes, ruining everybody, with labyrinth he is bound to and he himself encouraging and shaping the selfish and selfless desires of others. His greatest desire, to consume everybody is the ultimate act of selfishness in the series yet he frames it as and pretty genuinely views it as an act of great selflessness, which is part of another theme in the show of people imposing their selfless desires on to other people.

As can be seen with Marcille, from the beginning she is shown as the most outwardly selfless, she's the one always wanting to help other adventurers, aside from Laios the loudest advocate for rescuing Falin, resents Namari for abandoning Falin and is shocked to find out Chilchuck is doing this because he is being paid. She's the one who crosses all moral and ethical barriers to save Falin, to defeat the dungeon rabbits. And then we see how she has the greatest most all encompassing desire of them all, to equal everyone's lifespan to one thousand with a selfless motive behind it, that it will erase bigotry between races. The selflessness of it is something she is almost proud, she's insulted and very insistent that she doesn't want more selfish desire like having a child or becoming a full blooded elf. Yet this selfless desire comes from a selfish place of never wanting to experience loss and is a desire (with the winged lions help) becomes one she seeks to impose on others

Similarly to Thistle who is THE example of how selfless desires become twisted and selfish by the dungeon as he original wanted to protect the kingdom and makes sure they live forever, though even then this was a selfish desire imposed upon him by Delgal. Now after a thousand years of running the dungeon he is all selfishness that he views as selflessness.

Then there is the other notable former dungeon master, Mithrun. Once viewed as a pure and selfless man by those around him he harboured countless selfish desires that the demon exploited and consumed, leaving him with what he and others thought was just the desire for revenge. A selfish desire that manifested in a selfless form as he puts his life on the line to rid the world from demons. It's through this we see one of his most interesting traits, his sincere desire to reach out and help other dungeon masters, compared to all other interactions he is never this gentle or talkative with them, the other canaries quite clearly just want to kill them, but Mithrun, one of the very few people who can understand what they're going through talks to them. By the end of the series we also come to know that his selfish desire for revenge was in fact an entirely different selfish desire, to be consumed.

Not on to Izutsumi, she's a character defined by her selfishness, as a result of her upbringing she has to rely on and care for only herself but then she becomes a part of the touden party and is put in a caring environment for the first time, and in response grows to genuinely care for them as well, risking her life in ways she wouldn't have done before. Izutsumi acts as a pretty potent example of the crews selflessness with all of them (except Laios, who they defend her from his monster fixation) acting as parents to her. Marcille gives her the love and affection, both emotional and physical that she'd never received up until that point, and didn't even know she needed. Chilchuckvis the only one with actual experience as a parents and only parental figure who has treated Izutsumi well, he pretty quickly realises she is acting like a teenage girl and quickly adjusts to treating and caring for her as such. Sensei, who is pretty much all paternal instincts cares for her the only way he knows how and is the first person to adjust meals to her needs and desires. Izutsumi can be seen as a demonstration of environments shaping a person, her formative years being treated terribly made her selfish whilst this new caring environment allowed her to become selfless for the first time.

Building off the paternal instincts comment from earlier, that one of the two things that define senshi's selflessness. Sensei is both a deeply mature and deeply selfless character, as a result his selflessness comes in more casual and more adult forms. In respecting the autonomy of others and providing them with food. With these drawing from the two things mentioned earlier, his paternal instincts but also his experiences with starvation. His paternal instincts are best shown in the chapter after Falin is taken as we see inside his head, seeing he views Chilchuck and Marcille as very young and that it is his responsibility to feed them, and considered it a failing on his part if he doesn't. This paternal instinct also is what leads him to secretly resent Laios and Marcille as he believes Chilchuck to be a child and views them as exploiting him and putting him in harms way. His focus on feeding others is of course a result of his experience with starvation, he NEVER wants anyone to go through what he went through and is THE way we see him caring for people outside of the Touden party

Next up Chilchuck, a character who at first seems to be a deeply selfish ones, as he journeys with the group because he is paid to, not because he wants to. But then we do come to respect this, as dungeoneering is a job, a very dangerous one that, and like all jobs it deserves proper compnesation. Which is something he actively tries to facilitate in one of his greatest acts of selflessness, where after having experienced the selfishness of other races and their willingness to use half-foots as bait, he starts a union to ensure proper pay and workers rights for half-foots. Though rather interestingly our first exposure to it is through the deeply selfish Mikbell, who frames what Chilchuck is doing as an act of selfishness. We also soon understand that he deeply cares about his friends, more than even he wants to as he continues to travel with them even when the job is technically done. This does result in a moment of selfless/selfish desire as he seeks to trick the group into leaving falin behind because he genuinely cares about then, he thinks they're in over their head and wants to protect them, again selfless desire that is selfish, though he does come to respect their wishes.

Speaking of Falin. cause of her minimal time to be a character we're left what screen time she gets and that's a character defined by her selflessness, from her communication with ghosts, being framed as a mothrrly figure to Thistle and the acted that began the series, sacrificing her life to save the crew, and would define how they act going forward.

For Namari it caused her to leave and take up the better offers she'd received. A selfish act that Marcille in particular resents her for but is explained by both her backstory, she is trying to buy back the honour her father stole, which would hopefully repair the relationship between the Lord of the island and dwarves, a selfless act, and the establishment of dungeoneering as a dangerous job that deserves compensation, which is why Laios and Chilchuck who do view it as a job don't resent her while Marcille who doesn't view it as a job (a. she's very open about not viewing dungeoneering as a career b. ancient magic research is her goal, thus the particularities of dungeoneering never mattered to her) does resent her. We do see other moments of selflessness from wanting to know Kiki and Kaka's age so she can identify them if they need resurrecting and standing up for Laios. Namari's character is one meant to show selfishness, especially when your life is one the line, is not inherently immoral.

The other crew member who left as a result of Falin's death is Toshiro (Shuro), who immediately goes off to find a strong crew he is hopeful can make it through the dungeon as fast a possible to rescue Falin. In opposition to Namari he is someone who chooses selflessness over this own life, running himself ragged to save her, but it is this focus on her other his needs that causes him to fail, running yourself ragged will leave you unable to succeed, as demonstrated to him by Laios. Laios is a man he resents for various reasons but one of them being that he doesn't see Laios as sincere in his care, that he doesn't express his selflessness in a 'proper' way. That his happy go lucky attitude and focus on keeping himself health are proof that he doesn't care, when in actuality a) that's just who laios is b) Laios looking after himself is a form of selflessness because how can one help others if they can't even stand.

Laios sits in the middle of selfishness and selflessness, defined in equal parts by them. He is completely sincere and dedicated to his selflessness, willing to risk his life and go it alone to save Falin, he seeks non-violent solutions to deal with his human enemies, wanting to talk to Thistle and get him to respect the citizens of the golden kingdom's wishes and doing the same with Marcille alongside working to defeat the winged lion and putting himself on the line to do so, as well as becoming the king of the golden kingdom, which he clearly doesn't want. yet he also has a lot of selfish desires because of this and being an extremely autistic dude with basically no social skills he's viewed as worse than he is, both on his and other's fault. He loves monsters and his entire life is defined by his obsession with them, this obsession spawned from a resentment of humans how they treated his sister (he got over it, he was a teen). He seeks to examine Izutsumi, and while he means no disrespect or anything gross by it, she is a teenager and has some pretty serious trauma surrounding being treated as a circus animal. He disrespects Lycion's treatment to his suicidal body dysmorphia because it's a 'skin deep' appreciation of monsters. He views saving Falin as an opportunity to finally consume monsters, his selfish desires and his willingness to express then when it really isn't an oppurtune time to do so (dude, your sister's life is on the line) mean he is taken at his worst, viewed as literally villain by Kabru and the canaries. Laios as the protagonist of story with pretty clear themes of selflessness and selfishness shows one who is outwardly a very selfish person yet the moment you stop to look is a deeply deeply selfless person, even if he is bad communicating.

This brings us to his foil Kabru. Kabru pretty clearly defines himself by his selflessness, viewing himself as superior for it, believing he should be the one to conquer the dungeon and that Laios is unworthy based on his shallow understanding of him. This selflessness is further deconstructed as something very bad for him as similarly to Toshiro is clearly doesn't value himself like he should, not allowing himself to have selfish desires, with it being pretty clear this worldview is shaped by his childhood trauma, of seeing what the dungeon can do, his survivors guilt and believing he has a duty to prevent it. This brings him into interesting conflict with Mithrun and Laios. The former is someone is a person who literally cannot care for himself and must rely on others to do that for him. His lack of care for himself, unawareness of his own needs astounds Kabru, rather ironically considering Kabru's lack of focus on his own and his focus on Mithrun, who is noted to be looking better than usual thanks to Kabru's treatment by Lycion, indeed his focus on analysing and understanding other people in general can be seen as a form of his selflessness/care for others at his expense. The latter is a person who confounds Kabru, Laios is the first person who Kabru cannot understand, the first person he can't just casually befriend one so utterly antithetical to his own interests as Laios is fixated and loves the very thing Kabru is horrified by, monsters. This also shows arguably the biggest example of Kabru valuing others, his selflessness at his own expense when eats the monster food Laios offered him, looking like he might die as he does so. This horror and confusion causes him become fixated on Laios, he is a puzzle Kabru must solve, but also because of Kabru's views on monsters, selfishness and selflessness he views Laios as an active and terrifying threat that must be stopped. But underlying this is what Kabru refuses to acknowledge until he confronts Laios next time they meet, he wants to befriend Laios, something that horroifies himself, both cause this is Laios, but this is a selfish desire. Admitting to Laios is an admission to himself that he has a selfish desire and that maybe just maybe that isn't so bad and that doesn't make him a lesser person. This acknowledgment that desires are part of who you are is what allows him to reach Mithrun, Kabru developed a new desire, to befriend Laios and thus Mithrun can too. Kabru is very potent foil to Laios, a character defined by selfish desires and seen as dangerous because of them when in fact he is deeply deeply selfless, as he is character who looks down on selfish desire and values selflessness to his own expense, only to learn through Laios that selfish desires are not inherently bad, thus allowing Kabru to help others even more.

And last but not least is elves as a whole and in particular the canaries. Elves are this selflessness and selfishness theme on a societal scale as their racial paternalism means they view it is their duty to look after races whilst also not respecting them or their autonomy and this causing great harm, with the canaries and Milsiril being microcosims of this. The canaries are a force tasked with stopping dungeons a selfless act, though motives selfish as while some clearly do it to save lives, it's established that one of the reasons they do so is to get their hands on the ancient magic inside and their racial paternalism means they don't trust other races to know the secret of dungeons, which almost dooms everybody. We also see how many of the members of it are criminals, who quite frankly are selfish cunts, really racist to non elves and are more than willing to put shorter lived races in harms way to get what they want. Milsiril is this racial paternalism embodied, as she's dedicated her life to looking after children of other races, a selfless desire, but she clearly doesn't see them quite as equals with there also being the implication that this is the result of a selfish desire to deal with her own loneliness.

Desire is a key theme in dungeon meshi with selflessness and selfish being the accompaniment to it that really makes so much it so potent.

[elany]

Yk what I want? I want a very early stages post canon labrumisu, but from Chilchuck's POV.

Imagine mister 'interparty romance is the devil' visiting court just to see these three circling each other like a pack of uniquely unhinged cats. And of course he sees it immediately, he's nothing if not perceptive and he's seen this happen so, so many times before. Kabru is hardly subtle in his fascination with Laios, who trusts him in turn more than nearly anybody else. He can see how close Mithrun and Kabru still are, even when there's little reason for the former captain to even stay in Melini. He can see where this is going. And he can see the disaster it's gonna end up in.

So he's just staring at them in horror, trying to figure out what in the world the dynamic here even is and glaring daggers at Kabru all the while for seemingly being the linchpin of this entire bullshit situation. King, his adviser and a fucking foreign noble?? Who thought THAT was a good idea! Is nobody else seeing this?? (no lol) Why is nobody objecting to this politically unsound love triangle that could literally ruin the kingdom they've only just established??

The anger! The distress! The despair when he first sees Laios getting all giddy when Mithrun so much as talks to him. Because hell, now he can't even blame the entire situation on one pretty boy insisting on having fingers in every possible pie, on political and personal level both!

And then they just. Quietly get together. All three of them. And Chil's just watching from the sidelines in complete bafflement because he's invented infinite worst case scenarios for how this will implode in all of their faces and destroy their friend group and topple the entire country and--

Instead they do. This. He'd be relieved if he wasn't so goddamn mad that he's spent months worrying about this shit just for them to resolve it in the least dramatic way possible.

Fuck this, he's taking a holiday.

[laikabu]

Hi! I just uploaded the first two chapters of my labru baby fic 😭 I’m sorry I took so long!! Thank you for letting me write about your characters. I hope I did them justice. Also, my friend said you tweeted about my other fic! My twitter isn’t public, so I couldn’t respond, but thank you 🥰 https://archiveofourown.org/works/57795706/chapters/147102496

oh my god… its you! i really liked your other two fics so i’m really happy you wrote this so thank you omg. it has everything… very good kabru inner thoughts… kabru and marcille tension… falin very clearly being the kids’ favorite… mithrun epic divorce guy… kabru slipping back into formal speech as a defense response… old man sappy autistic sex…

anyway, my thoughts in case people want to read it and dont want to be spoiled, it’s quite long LOL

this was such a nice read!!! i was always curious how people would characterize my fankids n you did it really well!! pumori being fussy toddler and makalu going through his rebellious phase… kabru being worried he’s turning into milsiril with how he’s harsh on his son… also kabru being nosy… pumori calling her older brother lu…

i also loved how you characterized laios in this, he’s always so intuitive of caring for those he loves when he’s aware something is wrong, coaxing it out of kabru in his own weird way to figure out how he could help…

makalu being fascinated with death is a really interesting angle. he was born in a former dungeon where death was forbidden. he’s fascinated with monsters and lives with a father who loved monsters but repelled them and another father who wanted nothing to do with them, relieved that he brought children into this world safe from ever encountering them… not ever expecting that one of his kids will grow up to actively want to see monsters

i really like the part where makalu and his friends were bothering mithrun, because he would totally do that. i haven’t put it into text yet but i always imagined him admiring mithrun because pattadol(who he liked to bother because he was fascinated by her fairy) hyped him up, meanwhile mithrun just found him a little annoying. i also really liked that you pointed out his dry sense of humor, because he does have that in canon and i don’t see a lot of people play around with it

i can’t wait to find out what falin and makalu talked about! and what spell he was learning… ahhh

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Short bc I'm Actually Going To Bed Before the Climactic Confrontations This Time

This callback goes to Chapter 3. THREE, do you hear me? That is 82 chapters ago. Is it weird that my competence kink unironically includes 'really good writing'? I don't think so. I think I'm normal. Senshi I'm so sorry for staying up until 6am reading this the first time. I should probably stop soon this time, too. I'm probably not gonna.

Funny note: Laios trying to cue Chilchuck and Senshi for the dramatic group pronouncement he's setting up, and Chilchuck going 'wtf?!?!' before catching on and jumping in.

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Impeccable redemption = death fakeout. I was so genuinely worried for a moment.

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Woman, this is the LEAST helpful anyone has been so far. Laios is earnestly asking for help in stopping this calamity, and you are a) blaming him for it entirely (unfair and you know it, because elvish policy is clearly willing to forgive former dungeon lords if they can be stopped); and b) telling him there's NOTHING he can do. Alright, guess they might as well just keep going then!!

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Note: Laios has already come up with the fundamentals of his plan at this point. I love him so much!!

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[the crowd (me) claps and cheers]

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Laios's friends who know him well wincing and retching because they KNOW what he means when he says he wants to feed everyone a meal - though they don't yet know that it's Falin! (That'll make it worse.)

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Alright, this time I actually am going to stop here, at nearly midnight. Except that I AM going to read the Daydream Hours that this manga website puts here in the reading order, which I didn't before!

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I FUCKING KNEW IT HAD TO BE THAT! Conditionally pardoned criminals commanded by aristocratic scions who need to prove their loyalty...and according to one of the Adventurer's Bible pages, it's possible for a criminal to serve long enough to earn their pardon, then be hired back as a guard... It's so good. It's so sketch. It does NOT, frankly, sound like a recipe for people who wouldn't take a demon's offer for power; I'd really expect cases like Mithrun's to be common.

[mortra]

spoiler heavy

when it comes to shipping mithrun, best candidates are kabru, pattadol, milsiril

w kabru: kabru affected the way mithrun thinks, he's a very impactful figure in mithrun's life. from sharing his past with kabru, and exploring the dungeon with him (kabru was taking care of his basic needs at this time, but honestly, mr-i've-never-had-to-cook-or-clean-in-my-life obviously had a hard time and it probably wasn't perfect, but still better than the canaries, be cause they comment on his glossier hair) they've developed a special comradery that extends outside the task at hand. kabru sympathizes with mithrun very much, and also he distrust elves, he has a soft spot for mithrun. even after kabru 'betrays' them by letting laios go, mithrun doesn't even scold mithrun and ignores him instead. mithrun cares for kabru too, he values kabru's opinions as in the ending, kabru manages to help mithrun realize the beauty of life, and continues to look out for his wellbeing. people usually say kabru is more of a nurse than a lover for mithrun, that's not really that true since mithrun only needs reminding. kabru and mithrun hold each other in respect, heck mithrun risked the entire mission because kabru said 'i want to talk laios out of it for one last time' and if that's not a bond idk what is.

w pattadol: pattadol is 2 years into adulthood, is the typical lower nobility elf, way too immature for mithrun. I can see it, but honestly, I feel like pattadol would sooner consider mithrun a paternal figure than a lover (based on how she treats and views him general, it is cithis who is his main caregiver, and pattadol probably helps out out of respect for mithrun). pattadol needs to focus on her own growth, right now she only values superficial things and while that's an interesting dynamic, mithrun doesn't have anything to like with pattadol. there's no real depth to their relationship.

w milsiril: more possible than pattadol but honestly, it's not a relationship that can spark love. milsiril didn't like former mithrun, but she took care of and checked up on mithrun during all those years from time to time. ultimately I think she and mithrun would probably agree to being a couple, but won't hold any feelings for each other. they are friends to say the least, but they hold no gentleness for each other, for milsiril mithrun is probably someone she can be herself in without masking, and that's beautiful in its own way. they both have a lot of issues to unpack by themselves.

[room-surprise]

Hi, hope it's ok to ask some stuff about your thoughts on mithrun (not sure if it got asked before). But do you think mithrun and his brother might've had a good relationship the beginning? Like when they were really young, maybe even before mithrun noticed the different treatment his parents did to him and his brother. Also do you think that the former mithrun was really in love with that elf? Cause after reading mithrun's part in the adventure bible I'm starting to have a few doubts, esp since that chibi look a like of the elf in question is being described as untrustworthy. Like maybe former mithrun was only into them cause his older brother also seemed to fancy them?

It's always fine to ask me stuff! Though I might not always have time to answer, I love seeing people's questions!!!

I don't know if you've read any of my fics, but I do go into what I think Mithrun and his brother's relationship was like as children in both "Show Me How to Get Off the Ground" (College AU) in chapter 2, and the short fic "A (Fairy) Phone Call Between Brothers."

In summary: I think when they were very young, Mithrun didn't realize that there was something "wrong" with his brother. He was just his best friend, his playmate, they spent all their time together and so of course they were very close. Just the two of them living on a big country estate, while a plague raged through the population - not a lot of chances for play-dates with children outside of their family.

Once Mithrun was old enough to get sent away to boarding school (so around 50 years old - 10 in human terms) he quickly realized that being like his brother (disabled) meant being cast aside and discarded... So he started to put distance between them, and the older they got the colder Mithrun was towards his brother.

I think that Mithrun felt guilty and ashamed for abandoning his brother (similar to how Laios felt guilty for abandoning Falin)... and the fact that his brother kept acting like they were loving siblings made the guilt even worse, and turned it into anger and resentment.

As for the mysterious elf (gender unknown) that Mithrun and his brother were both interested in... No, I don't think Mithrun ever truly loved them. Like you said, Mithrun thought that the snake spouse elf wasn't trustworthy, so I assume that means he thought they were a gold digger. Somebody that was only interested in Mithrun and his brother because their family is very wealthy.

I think Mithrun ignored his own desires (wanting to date, or have sex with the snake spouse) because he thought they were a bad match, that his parents wouldn't approve, or that they were dangerous to his social status...

So when the magic mirror showed him his brother happy with the snake spouse, Mithrun was overwhelmed with jealousy and regret. He worries about if he misjudged the snake spouse. What if they were actually wonderful, and now Mithrun has missed out on the love of his life because he thought he was too good for them? And now his brother has them instead?

I think Mithrun's story is complicated, and Kui tends to suggest things rather than explicitly tell us what happened, so there's a lot of things to speculate about, and different ways you could read it all.

Thanks for writing to me and asking! It was fun to answer <3

[beevean]

It's insane that the full extant of Kit's character is being Surge's getaway car. I honestly don't know how he would act or what he would think in a scenario where Surge isn't involved At the very least, he's less codependent on his partner than Whisper is with hers, but that's not a high bar.

(Lmao at how the story did Whisper so dirty that she has less individuality and agency than the guy who's supposed to be an unthinking drone)

If their goal with Kit was to make a character even more hollow and pointless than Surge, they definitely succeeded. Something like that should've been impossible, but they found a way. But we all know it wasn't intentional.

The writers wanted the new tryhard girlboss to have a minion, but they forgot to think about how the aforementioned minion would function whenever their master isn't around.

The thing is that, that's the point.

Surge and Kit are how Starline sees Sonic and Tails: so, his Sonic is an arrogant asshole who doesn't care about anyone but herself, and his Tails is a sycopant doormat whose very existence revolves around "Sonic".

Kit having zero personality, at first, was precisely what the "character" was meant to be, so I can't fault him for that.

The problem is that he was completely forgotten in favor of Surge.

Who got the most attention from #50 to #56? Surge. Who was the one who had a big speech about how hating their counterpart was baked in her very being? Surge. Who was the one talking and making fun of the protagonists in #58? Surge. Who is the one who is now getting rushed character development? Surge. Who is the one who got into Forces Speed Battle? Surge.

The only change in Kit is that he now calls Surge by her name instead of "ma'am". But the horrifying existence of someone who is literally bound to someone else's will has not been explored one bit. When Kit panics about Surge, when he flees to find her, when he speaks about her, when he claims that he wants her happiness, it's all meant to be seen as a wholesome display of how much he cares about his big sis, and not as the literal equivalent of Surge being obsessed with wanting to fry Sonic alive.

You can write good empty shells. Shanoa and Mithrun are compelling, lovable characters despite having no emotions, only one objective they fully dedicate themselves to, and in the former case amnesia as well. But you need good, respectful writing, which IDW lacks, because we all know Surge is the fandom's darling, and much like Maria is happily reduced to Shadow's trauma button instead of getting loved as her own person, Kit is nothing more than Surge's cute baby bro, and no one gives a shit about his pain.

[fallloverfic]

So... on the subject of relative age in Delicious in Dungeon and Mithrun and fandom "jokes" I've seen folks complaining about. General manga and anime spoilers for character ages and names in the manga and anime below the read more:

On the one hand, I do get that people are (or at least were, I see it less these days) mad at the "Mithrun grandpa/old man" jokes/comments because "it's just cause he's disabled" and "relatively speaking, he's the same age as Chilchuck, and no one treats Chilchuck like he's an old man/something about how Chilchuck dislikes being treated differently, mentally, for his presumed age/state of mind".

Okay, yes. Relatively speaking, sure. There's a conversation to be had about the intersection of ableism and ageism and how we often baby (in a patronizing way) disabled people and the elderly, and how we prioritize youth and treat middle-aged people like their lives are over. (And maybe something about how he has silver hair, I don't know). On a more positive note, I love that, relatively speaking, possibly by Elvish standards, Mithrun is at/near middle-age (elvish age of maturity is 80 years, their average lifespan is 400 years), because that's a fascinating bit of world-building.

...On the other hand (please rest your pitchforks momentarily), Mithrun is literally 185 years old, he is the fifth oldest cast member for characters whose age we know as of the English release of the Delicious in Dungeon World Guide: The Adventurer's Bible (after the Elf Queen, who's 372, the elder Flokes, who are in their 200s, and Milsiril, who's four years older than Mithrun), and he is the oldest member of his group of the Canaries (he's literally 103 years older than his subordinate, Pattadol, and still 39 years older than Cithis, the next oldest Canary after Mithrun). And speaking of Chilchuck, who is, yes, a married father of multiple adult children... and also 29. Mithrun has lived over six times as long as Chilchuck has. (All ages come from Delicious in Dungeon World Guide: The Adventurer's Bible; Sissel + the other Golden Country residents don't have listed ages there, though they're at least 1000 years old, and the other elves don't show up). Mithrun was in recovery after the central watchtower dungeon for longer than at least five characters have been alive.

Age chart:

Elf Queen: 372

Tansu Floke: 210

Yarn Floke: 204

Milsiril: 189

Mithrun: 185

Cithis: 149

Otta: 137

Fleki: 130

Lycion: 126

Senshi: 112

Noor: 98

Totan: 95

Pattadol: 82

Gillin: 79

Brigan: 78

Holm: 76

Fionil: 62

Namari: 61

Daya, Invar: 58

Marcille: 50

Maizuru: 41

Chilchuk: 29

Laios, Toshiro, Hien: 26

Rin: 24

Falin, Benichidori: 23

Kabru, Mikbell: 22

Zon: 21

Kaka, Kiki: 20

Kuro, Doni: 18

Izutsumi, Inutade: 17

Leed: 14

Mithrun is older than Senshi, older than Marcille, older than Kabru's entire party, including Holm and Daya, and older than the oldest human we have an established age for, Maizuru (again, the first Adventurer's Bible doesn't list the Golden Country resident ages, and Mithrun is definitely younger than them, but also they're generally minor characters except for Yaad and Delgal). He's older than Senshi's former dwarf comrades were when they died. He's also apparently older than Flamela, the vice commander of the Canaries (she's 170, at least according to the fanwiki, which is possibly going off the Complete Adventurer's Bible).

He is of course younger than Obrin, his older brother, whose age we don't know, but we do know that Mithrun is the younger brother. He is also obviously much younger than the demon.

I also find it interesting that people are jumping to the big assumption that he's middle-aged (relatively) due to... I guess just chopping the average lifespan of elves in half and assuming that's what they think middle-aged is? We know the average lifespan of elves and when they come to maturity. We do not know what elves think of Mithrun's age or what their concept of being middle-aged is, if they have one. He could be considered young by elf standards. He could be considered old. We have no idea.

Thinking about the conversation in Volume 8, Chapter 51: Dumplings 2, it's just about total/average lifespan and how near the characters are to dying by average race age, not middle age.

Chilchuck on p.37: "What's the difference between our actual ages and how old we look?"

Laios: "Well, dwarfs do live two and a half times as long as tall-men."

Chilchuck: "If our actual ages affect our looks, then... ...I'm curious about remaining life. Will we age at the same rate we did before? Or will it match our bodies now?"

They never get an answer for this. We do get rough estimates for what one race's age means to another by comparing Laios' actual age (26) to what Senshi thinks dwarf!Laios is, age-wise (his 60s), and both ages put him near but not at assumed middle-age for the respective race (for tall-men it would be 30, for dwarfs, 100), but otherwise they don't come to many conclusions about anything. They just guess and try to change back before something worse happens. Marcille doesn't even say anything in this conversation about elf culture. She just panics because half-foots live shorter lives.

I would not personally call Mithrun a grandpa and I don't particularly connect with jokes about it. By Elvish standards, and relatively speaking, he is perhaps not, arguably, old. ...But he's no spring chicken, either, despite how strong and fast he is. By the standards of most characters he is interacting with in the story, he is the oldest person in the room, by a substantial margin (heck, the age gap between Mithrun and Cithis is more years than Chilchuck has lived). That doesn't make him a grandpa, either. But I do find people getting mad about folks pointing out this literally 185-year-old being is you know... 185 years old... odd...? Especially when he's around all these by and large substantially younger people (younger people who are adults by and large!!!) for most of the story. Again, there's definitely a conversation to be had about the intersection of ageism and ableism, and how we treat people who are middle-aged as if they're elderly even when they're able-bodied, and about the way other characters in-universe treat him (though the one time I think his age is pointed out, it's about the stuff he knows, not to mock him for it; mostly people treat him badly due to his disabilities (e.g., Fleki with his aiming in chapter 55, Cithis in the Adventurer's Bible), not because of his age)... but it does feel very much like people are ignoring that he is honestly one of the oldest characters in the story, and not by dint of being the oldest youth, but because he's a character who has lived to be nearly 200 years old.

[bluewarf]

I have a lot of scattered thoughts about Dungeon Meshi vol. 9, actually. (gonna talk about spoilers below)

-Marcille has a definite habit of misjudging and infantilizing the other races. Comes with the territory of being an elf. Even so, she seems to take that tendency to the extreme with Fallin. Maybe it's because Fallin was so young when they first met? I do think it's interesting though to view it through the lens of Marcille having unacknowledged romantic feelings for her. Loudly insisting that Fallin's just a little girl who needs looking after is a lot safer than examining the depth and nature of her attachment to her best friend.

-that said, Marcille x fireball OTP

-The look of pure excitement on her face after being told that she'd just been killed and brought back-- babygirl, you are just as much of a freak as all these other weirdos in your party.

-Speaking of, Laios' internal moment of "oh, but I'm the freak?" when Marcille casually mentions having eaten fish testicles.

-and to continue on the subject of the dynamic between these two characters specifically, there's a lot to unpack with Laois' succubus taking the form of Marcille, his initial reaction to it, and the way that it ultimately goes about winning him over. So much so that I don't know where to begin with it, really.

-everyones' succubi have some interesting implications. Marcille having the romantic sensibilities of a middle school girl and/or telemundo-addicted abuela. Chilchuck being charmed by generic Hot Single half-foot ladies who bear no resemblance to the estranged wife that he's nonetheless remained faithful to. Whatever the fuck senshi had goin on.

-and of course, Izutsumi. kitten. :( She really doesn't seem to have had anybody looking out for her before joining Laios' party. Even Toshiro, who calls his servants family, was so quick to leave her behind in the dungeon when she went MIA. I do love the moment where she pauses to consider the idea of her beast half as a companion and partner. OTP ended with Marcille/fireball, Izutsumi/self-acceptance is my new ship.

-(in light of the nature of her succubus, I'm choosing to interpret her as aro-ace btw. girl CAN still appreciate the raw sensual power of a panther tho.)

-Chilchuck's dad side really comes out where Izutsumi's concerned. The way that he tries to guide her to the "right" answer when she's frustrated with the rest of the group, how quickly he assumes responsibility for her seemingly disappearing, and the fact that he's the first to suggest looking for her despite in no way being physically up for it when he's normally mr. pragmatism. I am such a sucker for adoptive parent/child dynamics.

-oh yeah, why did that cute little page spread of "monsters that steal your heart" on chapter 60 kick off with chil having a nightmare about his three daughters being axe murdered (by himself?) and senshi getting ensnared by a vision of his former party alive and embracing him. all drawn in a chibi style. Ryoko Kui has really mastered tonal whiplash.

all of that isn't even beginning to touch on Kabru, Mithrun, and the massive lore drops, but I'm gonna have to come back to that later.

[villain-in-love]

I am of the opinion that Thistle is probably the most successful and competent dungeon lord in history - managing to hold this position for 1000 years is already wild, but there are many other elements in which he is better than the other dungeon lords we saw. But what stands out to me, and what must be one of the main reasons he managed to do all that, is his unusual relationship with the demon.

I mean, just look at how other former dungeon lords talk about the demon:

And then there's Thistle:

Funny how Thistle's paranoia and autocratic tendencies, which are normally his vices, helped saving him from meeting his end in Lion's jaws. Well, at least until a bunch of idiots barged into his house and freed this abomination he had sealed away for good.

Anyways, I wonder why does he seem to be the only one who didn't give in to the demon's manipulations? Especially since knowing not to trust the demon from the start is not enough – Laios fell for the Lion's manipulation in just one conversation.

Maybe that gentle love and understanding demon was trying to give him was rejected because Thistle only ever wanted that from his adopted family, especially Delgal? Or is it because of the nature of his desires? Mithrun did put Thistle in the "epic" tier regarding the complexity of the desires. The other thing is that Thistle's desires are remarkably selfless and have more to do with what he wants to give other people and not what he wants for himself.

Or maybe he's really just so paranoid and hates other people getting in his business so much that even Winged Lion's influence was too weak in comparison.

Also. Look at Thistle with his hair down:

He's gorgeous (and stressed out).

[bumblepuppy]

1, 5, 8, 12, and 23 for Mithrun + the character ask game!! ^_^

1. Why do you like or dislike this character?

Give me a character design with a prominent facial/eye injury and I'm immediately in love, lol. Apart from that, I love tragic characters brought down from their own hubris, and I love that he's a character who is continuing on after his downfall, even if he's a shell of his former self.

5. What's the first song that comes to mind when you think about them?

Uugh so many... but I think I'd have to go with 'Rabbit Heart' by Florence and the Machine because I always think of him when I listen to it (also because I slapped the lyrics onto one of my drawings of him):

This is a gift, it comes with a price Who is the lamb and who is the knife? Midas is king and he holds me so tight And turns me to gold in the sunlight

8. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

Not despise, but I kind of get a little 'ehh' when people read the end of his arc as characters asking him 'have you tried not having depression?' and that curing his depression. As a fellow sadbrain, I think there's a huge difference between 'try not being sad!' and 'maybe try approaching your issues from this angle?', which is how I read it. It's people telling him that they care about him and that he's still nice to have around despite being empty, which is nice! They love him.

12. What's a headcanon you have for this character?

After the series, he's trying to explore his ability to desire, which mostly results in him trying to get Kabru to visit and enjoy nice meals with him. He does not quite understand why he desires this, but he might as well act upon this new feeling.

23. Favorite picture of this character?

It's my lockscreen... this picture heals me so much... I saw a man so beautiful I started crying... thank u ms kui....

[cupriferousart]

I've been brainrotting over this after talking with @greeniebeanyyy so I'm throwing our collective two cents into the SCP Meshi AU:

Laios: Ex-military, enters conscription after leaving home when Falin gets sent away from home with no explanation. Gets discharged from the military and applies for shadowy paramilitary jobs to make ends meet. Unexpectedly runs back into Falin upon joining the Foundation. Has a knack for picking up on anomalous theory, and almost considers pursuing a research career. After Falin's 'incident', meets Senshi who is sent from Wilson's Wildlife as a liaison with the Foundation. Probably eventually leaves the Foundation and joins Wilson's. (I love you gap moe Dr Laios, but his struggle through squalor is one of my favourite parts of his character)

Falin: Flagged for some anomalous traits by the Foundation while she's young. Parents make a deal and she gets her schooling sponsored and chosen by Foundation in exchange for keeping hush about it. Pursues medical studies in Deer College where she meets Marcille. Both graduate and are employed under the Foundation. Falin eventually becomes involved in a major anomalous incident concerning Thistle, a Type Green based in a small town nexus with an unageing populace. Is generally very sympathetic to the plight of SCPs.

Marcille: Ambitious researcher, joins the Foundation for her own academic interests. Has connections with the Chaos Insurgency and other anomalous groups that supplement her own research into esoteric fields. Just a little more evil.

Kabru: Either MTF Red Right Hand or hyper-competent Unusual Incidents Unit member who has been unable to join larger groups of interests due to just being bad at dealing with anomalies in general (though has an easier time if he can reason with them). Keen eye for intel gathering and social engineering.

Chilchuck: UIU Liaison sent to support Foundation operations after the Falin Incident. Hates working for the government but stays in the UIU both to support his family and out of a moral obligation to do the job so more selfish and dangerous individuals don't abuse the position (sense of principle might be why he hasn't been offered a more prestigious role by the Foundation). Takes pity on Izutsumi and sets up her capture by the Foundation to aid with her anomalous condition.

Izutsumi: Catgirl still. Wants to live a normal life and revert modifications on her body. Foundation is largely unhelpful, but doesn't mind the lazier lifestyle. Formerly Serpent's Hand or denizen of the Wanderer's Library

Senshi: Animal Handler from Wilson's Wildlife Solutions. Note: Ambrose Restaurants was briefly considered but immediately rejected because he's not about that bourgeoise decadence and excess. Has prepared anomalous animal byproducts under WWS to evaluate ethical ways to live alongside them?

The Canaries: Global Occult Coalition. Mithrun, specifically, is a former Foundation staff member who was taken in by GOC after a disaster at his old site.

Thistle: Type Green, maintains the Golden Kingdom Nexus that keeps inhabitants young forever - due to low containment risk, the Foundation leaves a skeleton crew of researchers including Falin to do periodic checkups. Foster brother was an inhabitant that has since gone missing. Appeals to Falin's sympathy to aid in relocating him. Their combined efforts bring the attention of a greater anomalous force. Winged Lion: Is dado /j

Others Shuro and his party are basically SCP-2085 Kabru's party is all UIU. Not sure if its funnier that he's separate from them or they're all in the same department as Chilchuck

just me yapping about my au you seemed to like

continuation of this post

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Marcille Takes Charge!

You know what, this is actually a very fair answer to my earlier question of "why couldn't the ancients just kill the demon?" Points to you again, Ms. Kui.

Truly I can't wait to see, like, every single Mithrun fight scene in the anime. The whole First Floor Incident is presumably going to be Episode 1 of Season 2, and I'm sooo excited.

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At first, I thought the Lion was being snarky here, but in retrospect, knowing its whole story and nature, I think it genuinely is just fond of all its former dungeon lords. What wonderful meals they gave it!

.

That said, the Lion DOES have enough personality to Judge Marcille for her aesthetic choices; and I think that's beautiful :) <3

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MARCILLE, NO! You're showing how corrupted you've become/how you were never suited to this role in the first place by acting directly contrary to explicitly stated themes of the story!

There is, however, something very satisfyingly country-ruling foreshadowy about Laios (and Kabru!) looking down at all of this spread out, though.

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It IS painful watching Kabru try desperately to play both sides, keeping Laios safe from the Canaries without letting him go side with Marcille. Bud, I'm sorry but you HAVE lost control of this situation. And Laios is smart enough to have put everything together about what happened while he was unconscious, even when you deliberately didn't tell him.

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[whispering sternly to myself] It's not fealty. It's NOT fealty. It's the start of a beautiful best-friendship which just so happens to include 1 guy looking at another guy and deciding that yeah, he has good potential to fill the king-shaped hole that guy #1 has been searching to fill - but just, like, on principle; genuinely NOT for any personal emotional need. The best-friendship is a completely unrelated emotional need. The ONLY fealting in this story is, so far as I can tell, between Shuro and his ninja squad, because they're from a completely different culture and, tbh, genre of anime.

.

But Laios, conversation is his means and mode! His sword and shield! If he can't talk it out, how is he possibly going to convince you to do anything, including save the world and be his friend?!

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God I love this. It's this perfect combination of "You are my polar opposite; you love the thing (monsters) that I'm terrified of, and I want to know how so I can do that, too, because I'm so tired of terror" and "You love a thing (monsters), understanding it to the point of being very good at killing it, the same way I love a different thing (people); we are the same and I just want you to recognize that like I do so we can happily vibrate on the same frequency forever."

It's very tragic-funny that Kabru genuinely try to introduce himself to Laios in a normal way, before resorting to taking his entire party to stalk him to dangerous levels of the dungeon and eating monsters. It's not his fault that Laios is completely immune to small talk.

I DO think that every pair (or throuple, etc) of narrative foils in every piece of media ever should at least try making out. At a certain point of narrative foiling, you might as well, you know?

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Note: Pattadol says she's "reporting" to Flamela, indicating that she's subordinate within the greater Canary structure even though she's 2nd in command of the most superior hunting party.

Also, it seems that the Canaries we know, the senior-most party, are genuinely the badassest of the badass and meant primarily for advanced dungeons including confronting dungeon lords and the demon directly. Tier-3 groups have less experienced guards, maybe criminals as well, and go on more scouting-type missions with no serious combat expected.

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She's not wrong, she's just a jerk about it!

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I get where the elves are coming from, I do. It's impossible to tell people people that there's a demon underground who'll grant their every wish while also communicating the dangers of this sufficiently that nobody goes searching for it. Even we the reader, don't entirely understand how bad it can get, how fast, until we watch Marcille do All Of That under the demon's active influence.

HOWEVER, it IS human nature to respond to this sort of thing with "well I/my friend won't go insane." There's gotta be a compromise wherein at SOME POINT far down the 'everything is going wrong in this dungeon' line, they just fucking tell people. They at least TRY. Otherwise they're just rolling their eyes at the short-lived races dangerous ignorance while actively refusing to reduce that ignorance.

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Again: Shuro is living in a slightly different, much cooler genre of manga than the rest of us. Also:

TEAM TOUDEN LET'S GOOO!!

The best part of this is that earlier, when our heroes were trying to figure out who might help them eat Falin's dragon half, I was like, 'hmm...they liked you, sure, but eating dragons is pretty weird...'

But now we are outright ALLYING AGAINST THE ELVES!

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Lmao. Classic adventuring party members, baffling NPCs as a team.

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oh this is cruel. this isn't fair.

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boys, focus.

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the comedic timing...

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lookit, that 30 seconds of desperate verbal flailing actually did help! Kinda!

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yeah, I DO really like that everyone looks to Chilchuck for his opinion on Marcille's 'make everyone live to 10,000' plan, as the guy with the shortest present lifespan and also the most age-wise of all of them.

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I Do Not Like This Visual. I Do Not Like the disproportionately large lion with human arms and hands shoving himself out of this book.

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Not to be pedantic, but I think if you're trying to entice a team of people into doing your will by calling out each of their individual strengths, I think you shouldn't make 2 of them as repetitive as "curiosity" and "inquisitive mind." That's not really what Senshi is bringing to the table anyway - I'd say "care" or maybe "sense of balance." Also, sorry Izutsumi but how tf is her "wildness" contributing to this mission?

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oh, Marcille, no...

[monstertidbits]

also please please i would have loved to know everything abt mithrun's time in the dungeon and his former squad members and his brother and milsiril and helki and their relationship (theyre SO close ryoko kui shows them together all the time umm!??)

[senseearly]

I like this theory!

If I may offer an alternative/add-on: I also like to think that the demon may have told Mithrun about that. Maybe not outright but by how the demon would fixate on his physical features, just as the demon fixated on Mithrun's whims and desires while he was still dungeon lord.

Mithrun having this deep understanding with the demon and vice versa makes sense to me because they were stuck together in the dungeon for a long while. And it may not be too far-off to say Mithrun once considered the demon as a friend, someone he thought he could be close to and trust, because the demon understood Mithrun's desires as well as insecurities, and provided what Mithrun could not have, Mithrun most likely in turn did the same. Throughout their time in the dungeon, Mithrun likely develop an understanding of the demon -- how it behaved, talked, etc., so him saying these things is just based on his observations about the demon. He knows the demon, just as demon knew Mithrun.

Going back to that extra comic of former dungeon lords meeting each other: There is no love as gentle as the demon's.

Which adds an extra layer of tragedy to Mithrun, imo. He desires to enact revenge to the demon as much as he desires to be eaten fully and not be treated as scraps. I feel like the demon eating his desires and his other eye and portions of his ears made Mithrun feel that those were the only redeeming qualities about himself.

But on the other hand, I feel like Mithrun pursuing to have the demon finish what it started was a roundabout way of him saying that those things are not just what makes him, him. That there is more to Mithrun to his emotional turmoil with his brother, his longing for acceptance from his peers, his silver eyes, his pointy ears. And perhaps thats why by the end of the story he stands back up again.

Going back tho to the post, I definitely agree though that he is victim blaming himself while he was explaining that to Kabru. He may not have been aware that he is doing it, or perhaps he just accepted it as a reality of his life, but one would think that days after his rescue from the dungeon, he thinks about that a lot. That it was his fault, and that this is his consequence.

this is all theory but.

im obsessed with this panel. there is no way mithrun knows this unless the demon told him outright. i think this is just him trying to rationalize why the demon maimed him specifically. this is his own theory skewed by the fact that he thinks he's an exceptionally evil person

he talks like he deserved it, like his maiming made sense, i think he's literally victimblaming himself