#min and thara meaning lesser glyph/rune

[nightmarist]

Interesting little thing, Sorn and Nym Orlith's names can both be found in the "male" section of drow names from Dragon Magazine (Sorn meaning enchanted or spell, Nym meaning skeleton or skull, and possibly Orly-th meaning Guild of Challenges).

Sorn says they fled because male drow are treated like dogs. At first I figured it meant his sister went with him for a genuine care of her brother and twin (and perhaps still is the case) but I wonder if Nym is trans and transitioned after leaving the Underdark but kept her name.

[lunastrophe]

BG3 Drow Lore 🕷️Minthara's Age and Name Meaning

🕷️Year Of Birth - Minthara was born before 1297 DR. In one of her lines, she mentions that she remembers a scandalous event from the past – when Viconia DeVir, a noble female drow and a daughter of the fourth house of Menzoberranzan, disgraced her family:

Two hundred years ago, she disgraced her family - the DeVirs - by refusing to obey a divine order from Lolth. It was quite the scandal, and I was young enough that it left an impression on me.

House DeVir fell out of favour with Lolth because of Viconia's transgression and ultimately, in 1297 DR, they were attacked and destroyed by House Do'Urden. During this time, Minthara was likely in the first decade(s) of her life, since by drow standards, she was still young and impressionable.

It would mean that she was born at least several years earlier, likely between 1270 DR and 1290 DR.

🕷️Age In BG3 - during the events of Baldur's Gate 3, Minthara is over two hundred years old, but probably less than two hundred and thirty.

🕷️Name Meaning - Minthara's name means „minor / second rune” or something similar, being composed of female prefix Min- („lesser, minor, second”) and female suffix -thara („glyph, marker, rune”). The name was probably given to her by her mother shortly after birth, according to drow custom.

We do not know if the meaning of Minthara's name was important in any way to her mother. Sometimes drow names seem to be connected to the child's future profession, ambitions or fate, but in many cases, there is no such connection and a name is just a name. For example, the eldest daughter of Matron Mother Yvonnel Baenre was named Triel, which means simply „wing” or „bat”.

🔹If Minthara's name meaning is not accidental, it could imply that she is her mother's second daughter (but at the same time, the eldest living daughter).

Noble drow females typically value their eldest daughters the most, from early years grooming them to become their successors. Who knows - maybe in this case, the first daughter did not survive, ending up being assassinated by enemies, or simply failing to meet her mother's expectations. Then Minthara would be „the second try” kind of a child – her mother's second chance to raise a worthy successor, to strengthen her position in the family and in the society.

🔹It might explain why Minthara's mother considered her so special and important: I have been told that I am special since my mother first held me in her arms. The burden of expectation.

Normally, drow children are not considered overly special by their mothers. The usual exception is the eldest daughter, expected to take her mother's place in the society one day.

In the next post - thoughts about Minthy's childhood, family and the identity of her mother 🙂

For more of my drow lore ramblings, feel free to check my pinned post 🕷️

[karniss-bg3]

What's in a name?

For the past week I’ve had one mission; Find the meaning behind Kar’niss’ name.

To me, that is one piece of information that could lend the biggest clue to his origins. I’ve had luck in some places and roadblocks in others, it’s turned out to be slightly more complicated than I thought. I haven’t come up entirely empty handed though and what pieces I’ve dug up have put him in an entirely new light.

Let’s start off by discussing drow naming conventions. Drow can change their names later in life and may do so multiple times. This is usually due to some significant life event or promotion and said name may relate to these incidents. This makes me believe that Kar’niss got his name after his transformation. After all, being turned into a drider would be considered a big life event by many. They also avoid using any names that may be similar to Lolth, some going as far as to avoid the letter L altogether. Mind you during my research I found conflicting reports. Some sources say it’s fine to pay homage to Lolth in a drow name so long as it’s only partial, such as “loth” or “lothine”. Others say it’s forbidden the whole way around and bad form. Take this as you will.

Drow names are also gendered, their prefixes and suffixes are labeled specifically toward male and female. Rarely, women could take on a male name with little push back. However, if a male takes on a feminine name they would be labeled a rogue or a troublemaker. This information is important later.

There are many more nuances to how drow are named, such as numbering their children in the drow language, or naming children in honor of their mothers and ignoring fathers completely. Looking over what resources I could find, Kar’niss’ name didn’t seem to be related to either of those things. With the exception of the suffix “Niss” which we’ll get to.

I’ve managed to find a chart that has all of the common drow prefixes and suffixes listed. Let’s take Minthara and Nere as two examples. The prefix “Min” is feminine and it means “lesser, minor, second” and the suffix “thara” is also feminine with the meaning “glyph, marker, rune”. This could translate to lesser rune, second glyph, and so forth. Min could also suggest her birth order as second however the birth orders are usually a suffix and not a prefix, at least from what I could find.

Nere is a bit trickier. The only thing I could find on the list was “Neer” and it appears to be a gender neutral name, as it doesn’t have two options listed. Neer means “core, root, strong” and it seems to align with his personal viewpoints. Nere fans may have discovered his full name or something a bit more meaty but as of now that is the closest I could find.

Now we come to the main event, Kar’niss. The one piece of solid evidence I found was the meaning for the suffix “Niss”. It’s the feminine equivalent to “Nozz” and it means “chance, gambler, game”. I suppose “Kar’nozz” doesn’t roll off the tongue as fluidly as Kar’niss. So we have one piece of the puzzle, what about the prefix “Kar”?

That, dear reader, is where my biggest roadblock came into play. Nothing on any resource I’ve found lists Kar anywhere. Not in prefixes, suffixes, house names or Dark Seladrine Gods. A big, fat goose egg. It’s easy to think of Karsus when hearing that prefix, the most powerful wizard that ever lived. Maybe there is a link but honestly I feel like I’d be reaching really hard to make that connection. Kar’niss doesn’t really show signs of being interested in wizardry and if he was before his transformation, he says shit all about it now.

I was ready to give up. I don’t think Larian is the sort to do something without purpose. Even though Kar’niss is a side character, the work put into him leads me to believe that name has some significance. So in my stubborn way I kept looking, until a thought dawned on me. All this time I’ve been digging through drow specific information while ignoring the drider in the room. What about...elvish? Yes the two languages are very similar but drow have different dialect than surface elves. Kar’niss is very pale in complexion and we’ve theorized he could be a Szarkai. It would make sense for him to take on an elvish prefix especially if he was trying to fit into surface societies. There could be a small chance he’s half-drow but the game lists him as drow in his character window so I think that theory isn’t viable.

Down a new rabbit hole I went and I found some interesting information. The first piece I found came from Tolkien's elvish dictionary. Kar means “do, make, build” in elvish. Couple that with gambler, chance and game you could translate the full name to “Make your own luck” or even “Take a chance” depending on how you approached it. Other options are “Playing a bad/dangerous game”, “Making a bad decision/bet” or something more in the realms of a negative connotation.

The second piece I found came from forgotten realms. There are several words that have the word Kar listed in them. These three are the most notable:

Hakar: Enemy

Sekkar: Flee

Karask: Demon

Only one out of the three starts with Kar and it seems fitting for what Kar’niss became; A demon. Sekkar also aligns with the notion he was a Szarkai, as they preferred to flee from battle rather than engage. Enemy seems self explanatory, he could feel like he is the enemy of Lolth or the Underdark as a whole.

Out of them all the Tolkien option seems to suit the best. The others are part of a bigger word and while threads can be stretched between them, there is no way to say that they’d hold. So where does that leave us? Naturally with more questions than answers, but this does suggest a few intriguing directions Kar’niss could’ve come from.

It is apparent that Kar’niss is very subservient and afraid, but that doesn’t mean he always was. Taking on the feminine suffix “niss” could suggest he was a troublemaker or a bit of a jet setter while in the Underdark. Maybe he broke rules, said things he shouldn’t have, pushed boundaries. If he was a Szarkai he could’ve been sheltered from some of the more harsh treatment other males were known to endure. This could’ve made him arrogant, egotistical and brazen. He may have over stepped, made a bad gamble as it were, and it cost him everything. The feminine suffix of “niss” could also be a way to emasculate him further. Drider are sexless and Kar’niss’ lower regions no longer exist, something that might have bruised his pride terribly.

Alternatively, his suffix could’ve been given to him by others to suggest his luck at being born a Szarkai although that is more of a stretch. Kar could also align with how spiders make and build webs thus the distinction between the two. Or maybe he took on an elvish lover or friend and gave himself an elvish prefix in honor of them, or they gave him the name, even if such a relationship cost him in the end.

There are so many wild variations and theorycrafting you could do with those pieces of information. While most of it is loose the one thing I can say for sure is that the suffix “Niss” has great importance. I think he made a bad bet or played a dangerous game and lost, and becoming a drider is his punishment. Maybe he took on the trials of Lolth, something a few might consider a game, and lost there as well. Perhaps if I keep digging I can find something more solid to link him with the prefix “Kar” but as of right now this is what I could find.

So ends my journey for answers, for now at least. I hope this wall of text provided folks with some interesting information and ideas. Thanks for reading!

Sources: Tolkien's Elvish, Drow, Prefix/Suffix list for drow, Elven Lexicon, Drow naming practices.

[regalpotato]

So I was looking for help with Drow names for my canon Tav, and I came across this reddit post with a list of Drow names from a magazine 20+ years ago. And you can use it to figure out what Minthara's name means (female/male):

Min/Ran - lesser, minor, second

thara/tar - glyph, marker, rune

Baen - blessed by

rae - fell powers

So Minthara means 'lesser rune' or something similar, I guess

And I know it's Baenre not Baenrae but 'blessed by fell powers' is cool.

Drow Names - Dragon Magazine issue 267 from January 2000 (as posted on reddit)