#meta keith x lianne

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question:

Is Keith Mars ACTUALLY a good investigator since he a.) didn’t know his wife was cheating on him b.) didn’t run Logan Echoll’s car through border patrol c.) didn’t get a full file on Lilly Kane (which would turn up the speeding ticket) d.) got outsmarted by Vinnie Van Lowe in Welcome Wagon by a trick VM spotted immediately, etc.

And here’s what you had to say:

@cheshirecatstrut--Personally I think Keith is just like Veronica. He’s extremely clever, maybe a bit smug, good at improvising/mimicking, reckless in pursuit of justice…and has giant blind spots due to personal bias. Like he hates Jake (and I’m one who believes he at least SUSPECTED his wife was cheating). This hatred causes him to accuse Jake of covering up Lilly’s murder during interrogation (which gets him fired) and ignore other suspects and leads. (Not just Aaron or the speeding ticket, either–he doesn’t really investigate Weevil or Logan, despite knowing they were both Lilly’s lovers). He also dislikes boys who REMIND him of Jake (Logan, Troy) so he chases them away from his daughter, while seeming fine with both Known to be Mentally Unstable Duncan and Sketchy Adult Cop Leo. 

He sees himself as smarter and more ethical than Vinnie, and Vinnie uses  that blind spot repeatedly to trap him (in much the same way Weevil plays Veronica). He judges Jake and Logan harshly for sleeping with married women, but finds extenuating circumstances when he’s the one doing so. He thinks leaving Neptune, having a corporate career, and marrying a ‘nice’ person is the road to happiness (mostly because it’s the exact opposite of the path he chose). So he manipulates and guilts Veronica into living that life, even though it’s not at all what she wants.

So in my opinion, he’s not so much a BAD investigator as a cocky and biased one. And he suffers for his flawed judgment the same way Veronica does–by losing the things he most values.

@mrskissytaylor--I feel like Keith wouldn’t have been a respected Sheriff or a respected PI by his clients if he wasn’t a good investigator. I mean, as Sheriff, we know he was elected by the people to hold the position, and he wouldn’t have been elected if he wasn’t capable of doing his job, especially to the 09 standards. Same idea goes for the PI side. Mars Investigation seems to rely a lot on reputation, he wouldn’t have many clients or referrals if he wasn’t good at what he did.  I do however think that he, like Veronica - allows his own personal vendettas or issues with specific people cloud his judgement. Obviously Jake Kane was on his radar long before Lily’s death. He may not have known how long Leanne’s affair was going on for, but he had to have known on some level. I think that by going so far as to accuse Jake, he must have decided at some point that since his instincts were telling him Jake was somehow involved or responsible, he stopped looking at any other angle and ran with the circumstantial evidence. I bet if he continued to dig even after questioning Jake, he would have figured out the ticket. Same with Logan. This was the kid that he knew as the self entitled rich kid, used to not having consequences for his actions; and just also happened to be dating his daughter. He didn’t think Logan was ‘worthy enough’, so when she presents him with a plausible (yet very weak) motive…he goes with it - probably not with the intention of bringing Logan to justice based off of something circumstantial, but definitely because his little girl was emotionally hurt by it and he wouldn’t stand for that. What is it they say? Someone always has to pay? 

@captaine-carter--He definitely knew Lianne was cheating on him (there’s a reason he hates Jake so much) he just choose to ignore it because he didn’t want to destroy his family. And with Lilly he was blinded by how badly he wanted Jake to have done it just like Veronica gets when accusing Logan of evil. The one big difference between Veronica and Keith is Keith tends to be more of an optimist about people. Probably because he was an adult before being exposed to all the scandal while she was still a high schooler and so he does tend to miss a couple things Veronica picks up on because she’s always convinced everyone is up to something. (Unless they are a ‘nice’ guy)

[blackpilledkremlintsarina5294]

Most people are too hard on Duncan Kane and his relationship with Veronica. Most people tend to give characters like Logan Echolls and Lilly Kane a free pass. The writers dumbed Duncan down quite a bit in Season 1. He knew how Celeste is with his relationships with women. If his mother knew that he and Veronica were siblings, she could have told him from the very beginning. Since we have seen how smart Duncan is in Donut Run, it would make sense for him to find his mother’s claim on he and Veronica being brother/sister very suspicious and out of the ozone. Duncan&Veronica are no Dan&Serena. Yeah, his sister, Lilly, has a more outspoken personality than Duncan, but that is no excuse and reason to paint Duncan as the worst one out of the two. Lilly was the rebel of the family. In the episode, The Girl Next Door, Veronica had asked Lilly to talk to Duncan to figure out why he broke up with her so abruptly. The next day it was very obvious that Lilly knew the reason, but didn’t tell Veronica anyway. Perhaps, Logan also knew of that reason and didn’t tell Veronica, too. I see posts about people criticizing on how Duncan handled the break up by withholding information from her. If people were to say that he was so bad on that, then people should say the same about Lilly, and Logan, possibly.

We see in the exact same episode on Logan and Weevil being all buddy buddy with each other over their African-American teacher being a tight ass on them, giving them detention. The process of them becoming all buddy buddy was a bit slow due to their opposite beliefs on how things should run in the world. When they bonded over their dislike for Mr. Daniels, they decided to damage the teacher’s car by putting it over the flagpole. The result got Weevil expelled up until Logan confessed his part of prank. They then have to paint over the graffiti. While they were starting up, Logan sees a tattoo of Lilly’s name on Weevil’s back and gets pissy over it. Later on in the season, he gets involved with his best friend’s(Duncan) ex-girlfriend. Two years later he sleeps with one of his best friend’s(Dick) serious ex-girlfriend. He gets mad at Piz for being with Veronica, and Duncan for getting back together with Veronica. It’s as if his feelings matter more than any of his friends as long as his dick gets pleasure, which would make him as a horrible friend in that aspect. Duncan gets pissed at Logan over Veronica. Dick gets pissed at Logan over Madison Sinclair.

Most people shit over Duncan at what happened at Shelly Pomroy’s party. What he did in that episode wasn’t his fault. He wasn’t even in his right mind since one of his drinks(or more) have been laced with GHB. Logan and the other people in that crowd weren’t doing Veronica any good service. They used her as a toy for their own amusement, and didn’t care about the repercussions. If anything Dick let her make out with him. Madison spat in her drink and wrote SLUT on her car. Beaver actually raped her. He was in his right mind, and in that right mind he had sex with Veronica without her consent. There was no excuse on that. Logan and Dick got Veronica wasted. They had women and men doing body shots on her without her consent. Logan and Dick were the reason why Duncan and Veronica had sex that night. BOTH Veronica and Duncan weren’t in their right mind that night. Their  inhibitions  were lowered that they couldn’t process anything the right way. Yeah, Duncan was given false information about Duncan’s relations to Veronica by his mother, but he wasn’t in his right mind that night. If Dick and Logan weren’t using Veronica as their toy for the night, Duncan wouldn’t have to play the hero to Veronica that night. Duncan told his friends to leave Veronica alone. If it weren’t for him to tell them that, they would have to proceed to use her as a toy for their own amusement. Another valid comparison between Beaver’s and Duncan’s actions on having sex with Veronica is that she looked willing to consent to Duncan. With Beaver, Veronica was completely knocked out. He didn’t care. He just decided to unbuckle his belt, unbutton his jeans, and unzipped his fly to then proceed to have his dick inside of Veronica’s vagina. Beaver had no remorse towards his actions toward Veronica that night while Duncan clearly did. 

Some of the fandom shits on Duncan for his behavior on Veronica after the break up. They only put the blame all on him for how his own friends made a mockery of her when she picked to stick by her dad’s side. Logan has shown to taunt her and taking dibs at her while Duncan had told him to stop. Duncan still cared about Veronica throughout Season 1. It is just he had to be dumbed down in order for a storyline that wasn’t needed to happen. Again, it is highly suspicious of Celeste to bring up such unsettling information while one of her offspring was in a relationship with Veronica. Veronica to me has Keith like qualities in her. I don’t see any Jake in her.

Most of the VM fandom pays more attention to Logan’s trauma from his dad. I don’t condone what his father did to him, abusing him, enticing his dead girlfriend, and neglecting his mother. I honestly wouldn’t want that from any of my parents. Duncan had some abuse from his parents and trauma from them as well. Jake appeared to be out to get the Mars family.  Celeste was a worse parent than Jake. But they were both bad parents. You remember the ep where they're at the dinner table and he brings up Molly, their dog-and says they got rid of her because she ate one of Celeste's flowers, or something like that? Then Jake was always trying to control Duncan-by putting his name in for class President and he didn't even know it? Telling him life goes on...not understanding his grief over losing his sister like that? Just horrible parents. Very controlling. And just plain mean, when the kids didn't act a certain way like they were supposed to. Duncan has some mental problems that he has to take medication for them. Seeing people shit on a guy with mental problems, yet praise a man who has some problems who doesn’t have to take any medication just doesn’t really do it for me.

Most people often bring up the fact that Duncan never told his parents that he got back together with Veronica. I actually understood his reasons. It was never like he was embarrassed by being with Veronica or ashamed by the relationship. He loved Veronica to the moon and back. It is just that he knows that his mom told him a bullshit lie about he and Veronica being related, and how she is about the relationship. Like I’ve said that his parents tend to be controlling and close minded towards him. I have been through the same thing, but without a paternity reveal.

If the people who are too harsh on Duncan, they have to not be so blind sighted by Logan and own up to his defaults because I know damn well that he has some!