#maybe im reading too into it but i feel like people want to believe Malleus is choosing the dream so they can go like “my poor blorbo look-

[zvezdacito]

This fr I've been tweaking when I see those analyses that are like "Malleus doesn't know what happiness actually is... and he doesn't know any of the people around him beyond the surface so he makes up very shallow dreams for them" because while the Malleus misunderstanding what happiness means part is true that also goes for everyone else and that's the whole point... This view kinda removes the agency of the other characters in confronting their own misconceptions and maturing a bit

Also it's mentioned multiple times throughout the story that Malleus doesn't control the dreams and the dreams are more magic-caused automatic manifestations of the things in the dreamers' hearts + how grounded the changes in the dream are depend on the dreamer's "imagination power"

I guess the misconception came from when he was giving an awoken Lilia options of what to dream next. Maybe he can make minor changes to the dream himself once the dreamer wakes up and he needs to coax them back to sleep but the dream is ultimately depends on the dreamers' subconcious and not Malleus's decision/he's not privy to their memories to decide it just because he's "supervising" the dreams

a common misconception that i have been seeing in the fandom is that malleus chose how the dreams are

malleus didn’t choose anyones dreams

we have to remember that THE ENTIRE ISLAND is under his um, how would he choose everyones dreams when he doesn’t know 1/10 of these peoples?

also, lilia’s dream was set in a time malleus didn’t knew and showed a fact completely different from what malleus was told. he was just as shocked with the reveal that lilia was the one that hatched him as any of us, if malleus would choose he definitely wouldn’t make lilia go through the pain of losing maleonor and raverne again

that doesn’t mean he CANT control the dreams, he was offering lilia a new dream based on what he believe that would be a better reality for lilia, himself couldn’t accept that true happiness for lilia still included losing his loved ones, the war, his magic and his lifespan, just for the joy of seeing malleus being born.

that also doesn’t change that malleus concept of happiness IS messed up, but i’ll talk more about this in another post

how his um works exactly is up to debate, but it doesn’t make any sense for him to have chosen theses dreams, these are the character deepest desires, is what THEY think will make them happy, not what malleus think that will make them happy.

yes, lizard boi is wrong for thinking that sleeping for eternity dreaming about a perfect world is what everyone would wish for, but what that “perfect world” looks like is not something he decided.

[pomefioredove]

Wahhh I love your writings so so so much and you absolutely deserve 500 and more ToT seeing your posts always makes my day!! I saw the match-up event and knew I had to join, it'll be my first time trying one of those!

It is kinda hard to describe myself... Which I guess says something about me? I'm a total homebody, finding comfort in solitude and the sort of freedom that comes with being able to express myself, by myself, with no restraint. But even then, there's nothing I don't love about the bustling nighttime, basking in the sort of romantic air of the evening as I admire the city lights and the ambience of energy.

I'm the type of person that finds myself in people. For better or for worse, my presence is determined by those I choose to be around... So overall I'm a big people pleaser and am kind of starved for good friendships and affection, having always had a hard time keeping connections or finding people that truly want to be with me, which in turn makes me a bit of a loner, I suppose... I do truly yearn though lol, so the want for connection is still there, raging within. It's almost a painful sort of pining, because I never hold a grudge.. Even if someone does wrong by me, I will always be ready to welcome them again with open arms. I'm fiercely loyal, so I long to have people reciprocate that.

I adore anything that keeps my mind going and gives me that feeling of satisfaction and indulgence... I would say I find that feeling in my passion for art, writing, and reading... analysing my favorite movies and literature, getting to notice little things about the people around me and storing them in the back of my mind as little anecdotes I can smile about. Putting myself in the shoes of others, letting my imagination go wild— that small balcony full of potted plants is so beautiful and cozy, I wonder what the interior of the home is like, then... Small, full of zen, with warm lights? That person on the sidewalk, waiting for the bus with headphones on, they look like they would like jazz, or maybe something more upbeat?

Im also a dreamer, I guess I can describe it as such haha. Im a hopeless romantic by heart, yet sometimes I find myself feeling a twinge of apprehension at the thought of truly being in a relationship... Maybe it's because it's uncharted territory, or it's because that "dreaming" side of me has that sort of "prince charming" fantasy that I've always wished for, even on a more realistic level. But even then, I know I can be patient and let time do it's thing while I focus on bettering my own future, and finding happiness and comfort in myself in the meanwhile.

I feel like maybe I've made this a bit too long haha.,,, take your time, and have a wonderful day! 🩷🩷

I match you with 𝐌𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐮𝐬 𝐃𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐢𝐚

anon I hope that you were purposefully trying to get him. I think you might actually be his soulmate oh my god

The First Impression:

Do you believe in love at first sight? Malleus does.

The connection is immediate. He's drawn to you like a moth to a flame, and conversing with you only enchants him more. Perhaps you bump into each other somewhere in the dead of night, or maybe you're just classmates, either way he simply knows.

Why He Fell:

Malleus soon finds himself purposefully seeking out your company, wanting to get closer but not sure how. This whole "friendship" thing is quite new to him, after all, and he doesn't want to scare you off.

There's no telling what exactly it is that makes him fall in love, but he falls, and he falls hard. He relishes in every moment you spend together, whether it's talking about your shared passion for the arts, or listening to you describe dreams. Your perspective on life is so... fascinating to him, he can simply never get enough of it. Your attention to detail, your appreciation of the little things, your ceaseless curiosity and active imagination, the care you feel for strangers... You quite literally change his world view.

Perhaps he's not exactly a prince charming, but he's close enough.

The Relationship:

There's a sense of understanding between the two of you when it comes to your loneliness. Later on, Malleus will question if he could tell that you felt as isolated as he did when he first saw you, if that was what drew him closer. But he doesn't put much thought into it. You enchanted him, and that's enough of a reason.

Though, perhaps, in the end, it's that shared loneliness that drives you together again and again. Your fierce loyalty, your craving for love and affection. You make each other feel safe and secure, which is all Malleus could really ask for at the end of the day.

He truly grows into himself during the course of your relationship, becoming a more stable, caring, and emotionally intelligent version of himself. You truly bring out the very best in him, and he can only hope he does the same for you.

There are awkward moments, of course, being two people that have no prior relationship experience. There's miscommunication, the occasional bruised ego, but there's truly nothing that could tear you apart. Malleus is devoted, reliant on his loved ones in such a way that perfectly mirrors your loyalty, and the both of you are quick to forgive and talk and move on. Probably the healthiest relationship to ever healthy.

He absolutely adores you from beginning to end.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Hello Raven. Ive been reading on your opinions and thoughts about How TWST would work as an otome game and im really interested.Your analysis is great and it feels refreshing to see another person that finds people "uwufying" certain characters irritating.

First,I would like to say that I was very surprised when i found your opinions about how TWST works as a dating sim.Most people romanticise TWST Its the exact same reason why i thought TWST was a otome when i first heard about it,and being manufactured by Disney didnt help at all.It was amazing seeing how much your opinion about it clashes so much around other peoples lolololol

This might sound offending but i seriously thought alot of people here were "uwufyers"(?) And believes in "love solves everything" and it was a large immediate bad image turn on for me.It was tiring seeing people constantly think of love as all sunshine and daisies and ignore the soil erosions around them,probably one of the big reasons why alot of peoples first relationships dont work out at all.

Ok i need to start getting to why i actually wrote this ask

I can totally see TWST working as a dating sim while still maintaining the main foundations of the game.

There might be some holes in this idea but im a wild teenager on the loose not a game developer.

Overused Love tropes are boring and happy ever afters are a one in a trillion chance of happening

So while Were not gonna touch on most of the plot in TWST the most were gonna change about it are only small little details. Its important for the character to have some bad traits and lore( that is not overused and boring and looks like it was written by a 5 year old,thank you very much) so all thats going to happen to make it work is by adding some more intimacy and physical contact on the game like Kalim hugging you repeatedly occuring,Trey baking with you because you asked him to help you on the school project and it becoming a thing the both of do together,Apple Carving with Epel,Having fun causing trouble with the Adeuce duo yada yada so while we do have some sweet moments and maybe a mix of romantic ones and friendzone moments aka giving the player mixed signals so they suffer

And based on which route you choose is who yuu will fall in love with,but only a selected few have happy endings

Take Jack for example,the only problems i really see here is his tendency to tie himself to his morals(which can be considered as a toxic trait)and his tsundere personality(which i honestly find quite annoying) so a "happy ending" "bittersweet ending" and "bad ending" along with "worse ending"(which are all the possible endings you can get and is available)

Happy ending:Jack shares the same feelings and after a lot while of debating and friendzoning you slowlyyyy subtley admits his feelings and after years and years of reassurance,tears,awkward flirting and amateur courting,you guys finally get together.yay

Bittersweet ending:Jack only sees you as a friend and its so painfully obvious.you would be a fool to believe hes going to catch on feelings for you when he stated himself he sees you as a sibling.Not wanting to ruin everything you kept your feelings sealed and just smiled

Idk abt the bad and worse endings i ran out of ideas haha

The other ones like Idia only has a "bittersweet ending"(which isnt always friendzoning the player more like he had feelings for you too but his insecurities got in the way) and a "bad ending"(you cry your little heart as you remember exactly how Idia belittled your feelings,should have known better when he was quite actively mocking love).Some only have a "happy ending" and "bittersweet ending".While others have different mixtures based on personality,background and occupation

However none of the royals have a "happy ending" why? Simple,Youre a commoner.A magicless prefect that came from an unknown world,You seriously think people will take to you kindly? Honestly with Leona there miiight be chance but with Malleus?The chances of you transporting to the fictional world is higher than being liked by 1% of fae while still being human.The eels only have a bad and worse ending and i think you know the reason for that.

Bad endings can be caused by other major factors (major character death,or minor character death that had a big impact on one of the mcs,player going back home,etc.) Worse endings are basically bad endings but worse if the character doesnt have a bad ending there wont be a worse ending

The actual romance starts when they graduate aka halfway through the route it takes time to develop feeling and for others to overcome trauma or atleast tone down their problems a bit

How you will get these endings are based on your choices

Whew this was long and oh boy while yes they dont follow alot of media expectations and defeats the main purpose of a dating sim(which is making the player feel loved) i wanted to have something more realistic something more TWST

I really enjoyed your analysis and only a few things im really interested in can make me ramble on like this! So thank you for reading this very long message and i hope you have a great day :)

[Referencing this post and this post!]

Aaaah 😅 Honestly, I’m just glad that I’m finally able to get my thoughts on that out... It’s definitely not my cup of tea, but I had been holding back on sharing my opinion because I worried about coming off as invalidating the people who do enjoy it (and I hope that I haven’t given off those vibes). As I’ve always stressed, just because I don’t personally like something doesn’t mean that others cannot like it. People are free to do and enjoy whatever they want!

Yume culture is definitely very prevalent in the Twisted Wonderland fandom! (For those who may not know, “yume” is short for “yumejoshi”, or 夢女子, which literally translates to “Dream Girl”. It is a term used for those (typically female) who enjoy dating their favorite character(s) in their head or in their imagination, usually via a self-insert or via an OC.) I think part of the reason for it is that the TWST characters are really loveable and relatable, and people wish that they could engage with them on a more intimate level. It’s how a lot of TWST fans demonstrate their love for certain characters!

ASDHBASODYPboffuba AHAHAHAH 🤣 After being in this fandom for over 2 years, I’ve found that a lot of my opinions misalign with what the majority of the fandom thinks. It doesn’t make any one opinion better or worse than the others, but I just think it’s something amusing to note. I try to give all sides consideration and the benefit of the doubt when possible, but ultimately I’d like to think that I approach TWST lore and its characters with more pragmatism than most. Maybe I’m just jaded--

I don’t know if I can speak for the entire fandom, but I feel like I’ve personally seen a lot of “uwu” takes. They’re understandable to some extent, as people will inevitably want to comfort these characters and to seek comfort from them in return. I don’t fault anyone for that, even if I choose to disagree with it. I just hope that those takes are only harmless fun and escapism, and that they don’t seriously extend to real world relationships, because that would be a setup for disappointment and even potentially toxic situations 💦

Yeah, I think that if TWST were to be a dating sim at all (while maintaining its identity), it would have to completely flip the script of conventional dating sims. TWST is a game about “villains”, and while that doesn’t necessarily condemn them to not having a happily ever after, it doesn’t mean that their happily ever after needs to come now, that it should be quite so easy to obtain, or that their circumstances will actually allow for it. Part of what makes TWST… well, TWST 😂 is that while there is magic and fantastical bullshit going on around you, the story and its characters still have its roots in realism. There are reasons and backstories for characters acting a certain way, and things happen as a result of the characters acting organically, not out of plot convenience. This would be possible to incorporate into a unique dating sim experience.

Like you’ve said, there can be more physical contact and sweet, intimate moments spent one-on-one with the boy of your choosing. I think there’s a lot of cute possibilities for those so-called “love-flag” cutscenes! Imagine looking after the hedgehogs with Riddle, going on cafe hangouts with Cater, baking with Trey, etc. It’d allow for the characters to be themselves without erasing their flaws and faults while still spending time with the protag (Riddle is taking care of the hedgehogs because it is his duty, Cater needs someone to polish off his sweets after he’s done taking pics for his Magicam account, Trey appreciating a hand in the kitchen because he’s worn out from being the main baker for unbirthday parties, etc.)

Oooh, I really like the idea that only some boys actually get “happy endings”/end up in an actual romantic relationship with the protag 🤔 But to play devil’s advocate for a moment, I can see why that might upset some people? Like, imagine being told that a character you really like doesn’t get or “deserve” a happy ending/love (and you, the player, by extension, don’t get that happy ending/love that you explicitly picked up this game for), but that others do????? And based solely on the character you picked/liked, too… (Worse yet is that I see a lot of the most popular characters, like the OB boys, being the ones that most likely don’t have “happy endings”.) That would just seem unfair to the fans of certain characters.

I’m not going to comment much on the ideas shared for Jack and Idia’s routes (since I think they work well as you have proposed), but since you mentioned Idia, I’m going to take a moment to speculate. I get that people want to date the TWST boys, but I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider the implications of certain characters if the genre were to change. Dating sims focus on romance, right???? So what would happen to Grim in that case??? And what about Ortho, who is a literal child that you obviously should NOT date or have romantic feelings for??? Since you can’t write either of them romantically, I fear that their roles would be greatly diminished in the routes, reduced to nothing more than “cute but sassy mascot/pet” and “Idia’s wingman”. In Ortho’s case, this is especially bad because his whole character arc ends with him finally being acknowledged as his own person rather than as an “object”, but the structure of a dating sim would probably make Ortho a plot device to move the romance along 😔 I don’t like the idea of changing Grim and/or Ortho to make them dateable either; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It takes away the importance of the platonic relationship between Grim and his minion, and in Ortho’s case, aging him up and/or making him alive or never dead in the first place removes a lot of meaning from his and Idia’s struggles and childhood trauma. It also kind of implies that something was “wrong” with the originals (and, by extension, something was “wrong” the friendships they had with the protag) 💦

I’ve actually always been bothered by non-royals getting romantically involved with royals 😅 It’s nice to think about for escapism purposes, but I personally prefer to write and consume media with a more pragmatic view and where there are realistic consequences for everything that happens. I’d be really interested to see the aftermath of a route where Malleus had to turn you down because he puts his duties as crown prince first, or where the twins get you caught up in their shady family business (presumably the underwater mob) 👀 Love’s numbing power only lasts so long before you have to deal with the consequences that come with those feelings and the one you’ve sworn them to.

Now that I think about it 🤔 a time skip around the middle of the game reminds me of Fire Emblem 3H. It worked pretty well in that game because the story was split pretty evenly between the past and the future (with maybe more of a lean toward the future, where most of the character development occurs. The actual romantic relationships happen post-main conflict, because the characters have other priorities (fighting for their causes). I think that this kind of a format would work well for TWST, especially with the deep-rooted nature of the trauma some of the boys have experienced (or just how generally stubborn they are to the ideas of friendship and love). For the TWST boys, their priorities would mostly be schoolwork, but also the OBs and what comes immediately after (if those are kept in the dating sim). I feel that it is tonally deaf or at least insensitive to launch into a romance or continue the buildup to one right after someone has been through something really dark and disturbing; they should be focused on mentally recovering instead. This would not be as much of an issue if the idea of a relationship was revisited later in life, when the characters are not as burdened by schoolwork and have had time to grow, to mature, and to sit with their thoughts and reflect on them. This would also solve the “age issue”. If the dating sim protag is over 18, it gets iffy romancing younger boys, and if they’re under 18, it gets iffy romancing older boys—but if there’s a time skip, then everyone is a consenting adult and it’s all gucci 👌

I’m with you when I say that if we get a TWST dating sim, I’d want it to be well-written and realistic so as to maintain the charm of the original. (But of course, there’s nothing wrong with wanting an experience different than this for a hypothetical TWST dating sim! Everyone has different tastes, which we should be respectful of.)