#marys makes a deal for johns life but the price is giving a demon access to the body of her 6 month old son

[xyberangelzparadise]

Sam is condemned by each of these deals but in different ways. Mary's deal condemns his body, John's deal condemns his life, and Dean's deal condemns his soul.

mary’s deal condemns john to life and john’s deal condemns dean to life and dean’s deal condemns sam to life and sam was already damned by mary’s deal to begin with.

[seraphofharm-ony]

Quick note: If you’re angelkin, please, for the love of everything holy, do NOT go into Doreen Virtue and Diana Cooper’s works. Please. If you’re trying to find information on angels, I suggest you go to more credible resources, and books about “angel magic” freely accessible to the public in Z Library, as well as ones on Enochian. You should also read about the other books that didn’t get into the bible, like the Book of Enoch, The Gospel of Mary, and The Acts of Paul and Thecla. I would also recommend you read about Dr. John Dee and the works revolving around him and his life, though most prominently, about his works and dealings surrounding the angels. Then, there’s Ronna Vezane, who speaks as Archangel Micheal has been “channeled” through her. Her works that revolve around the ‘teaching of Archangel Micheal’ are actually pretty good, though I don’t recommend buying the books about it, as the audiobook is free on Giving Voice to the Wisdom of Ages, which is a YouTube channel.

And if you want cool art, check out the Angelarium by Peter Mohrbacher. Very eldritch and lovecraftian-esque horror with a lot of spicy angels.

ESOTERICA and Giving Light to the Wisdom of the Ages are good YouTube channels to watch, if you’re interested about the workings of religion and mythology. If you’d like to see people break down Christianity to it’s core fundamentals and Christian beliefs, I suggest searching up “Genetically Modified Skeptic” for the odd shenanigans and a dive into the other side of the religious spectrum. There’s also Chabad.org who you can always trust with a few articles about angels and the Jewish belief about angels.

Hochelga on YouTube is also a great resource!

Putting my other two cents here is that while I am not Jewish, the teachings about angels in Jewish belief are absolutely wonderful, and there are a bunch of videos online that cover them. I listen to them more intently than the..er..Christians and the Catholics who’s main goal is for conversion.

Why not Doreen Virtue? Well, after making a fortune off angel oracle cards and tarot cards and books about angels, she stepped back, claimed they were all “demonic” and that the “angels” that showed up were demons in disguise, and is still actively profiting from the people who buy her old work. (Don’t.)

If you want angel tarot or oracle cards, I suggest these options:

The Angel Tarot by Travis McHenry, The Wild Unknown by Kim Krans, Ethereal Visions by Matt Hughes, Orien's Animal Tarot by Ambi Sun, Occult Tarot by Travis McHenry, Goetia-Tarot in Darkness by Fabio Listrani, Oracle of the Roses by Cheralyn Darcey, The Star Tarot (2nd Edition) by McClelland, Heaven and Earth Tarot Deck by Jack Sephiroth, Oracle of the Angels by Mario Duguay, Botanical Inspirations by Lynn Araujo, Cirque du Tarot by leeza Robertson and Micheal Joshua Tufts

Others: Angel Meditation Cards by Sonia Cafe

Why not Diana Cooper? Well..her thoughts about angels and all that aren’t all that bad (compared to Doreen, anyways.) but there is a tinge of ableism in her works, of autistic children being people who reincarnated with “heavy karma” and are supposedly paying the price for the past sins they’ve committed. While I can, to a reasonable extent, understand why she may think as such, but at the same time, that kind of thinking is very harmful, especially if you were to tell that to a child that their condition is a punishment from a higher being.

[semirahrose]

[1/2]Fandom’s reaction to the Dean/Mary scene in 12x22 is frustrating me to no end! NO, Dean is not focusing on Sam’s suffering cuz he’s putting Sam’s pain above his own! In fact, that scene is not about Sam or Dean. It’s about Mary. And he’s not giving her a highlight reel of all the crap they've endured; he’s doing something very specific. He’s forcing her to face the suffering her DEAL has caused, & Sam IS unique in that. So Dean starts with John & how broken he was & how that forced Dean ---

[2/2]— to shoulder way too much but those are INDIRECT outcomes of her deal. They were caused by her DEATH, which was an unfortunate consequence of her deal but was never actually PART of it. Her death was not the PRICE for John’ life, Sam’s life was. The claim, the ownership of Sam by Azazel/Lucifer (before he was even born!!T_T) was the price & everything they’ve put him through is a DIRECT consequence of her deal. THAT is why Dean focuses on him. Cuz Sam paid the debt with his life & death.

That is a lovely point, Anon, and well-said, but I’m afraid I have to disagree in a few important ways. Of course, you’re absolutely right that Sam’s circumstances (and his feelings of shame) are really strongly connected to the deal Mary made and its long-term (life-long!) consequences.

The thing is, I don’t think Dean needed to “force [Mary] to face” anything. She was already quite aware of what happened. The things Dean mentioned… they literally weren’t her fault, directly or indirectly. Even Sam being fed demon blood is completely on Azazel. That was a choice Azazel made that Mary unknowingly facilitated.

Azazel literally only asked to visit her house in 10 years. She knew nothing about what Sam would endure. Sure, making a deal with a demon was a messy choice, but the terms of the deal were vague as heck. Mary could not have known, and the way Dean phrased everything in that speech, it was as if he was blaming Mary for her own death and for Sam’s suffering, which just doesn’t make sense.

The thing is, it makes sense that, to Dean, it would seem like it all started there, but Mary is not responsible for the results of her deal or her death. In some ways, I mean. She is responsible for making a deal with a demon, but the circumstances were horrific and, surrounded by that much death, I can see why she’d make a choice like that. 

Still, that whole thing was orchestrated by Azazel to make sure that he’d have access to Sam. This destiny of Sam’s was millennia in the making. Mary’s marriage to John was orchestrated by angels. Mary’s debt to Azazel was inevitable. If she had not granted Azazel entrance then, I have no doubt that it would have happened another time, in another way. There are some things Mary is responsible for, but with how much angels and demons alike were toying with the Winchesters (from Mary to John to Dean to Sam), I tend to give a little leeway when it comes to assigning blame for certain things. 

Dean was not right to say what he did to Mary, although I understand what you’re saying and Dean may well have seen it that way. It was a remarkably effective, if painful and unfair, way to snap her back to herself. Nothing like a healthy dose of the good, old-fashioned, Winchester shame to pour cold water on her illusory happy family haha.

I hope this makes sense and that I’ve understood you correctly! I may not have.