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herrlindemann · 2 years

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ROCK HARD - June 2004 - Interview with Paul Landers

Germany's currently most successful rock band was completely submerged for a year. Although the DVD 'Lichtspielhaus' was released recently, the actual concentration of the six Rammstein musicians is solely on the next studio album. Guitarist Paul Landers exclusively answered our questions shortly after Easter and revealed everything worth knowing about the upcoming record, about interpersonal problems within the band, about the relationship with Wladimir Klitschko and about the attempt to lyrically process a cannibal.

Paul, where are you right now?

At home in Berlin. Shortly before Easter we flew from Stockholm, where we are recording our new record, to Germany. Our producer and our mixer have families and children. That's why they just wanted to switch off over Easter.

Is this break in your interest, or did it burst into a creative phase?

Since we are also family people, we didn't find it bad at all. Olli likes to surf and tries to spend every free minute at the sea to quickly jump on a board. He spent Easter on the Baltic Sea, and now we're practically on our way to Stockholm again.

Before we get to Stockholm and the new record, I'd like to talk to you about the past.

Yes, so the band name comes from...(laughs)

Have you been listening to your previous albums, especially 'Mutter’, lately?

Yes. Recently, when we were in the middle of pre-production, I bought an mp3 player and put our albums on it. Then I walked around town all day and listened to all the songs we had.

Did you ever notice that at the time of your debut, 'Herzeleid’, everyone was philosophizing about the incredible guitar sound, but the true sound wonder 'Mutter’ was almost taken for granted?

I don't know now which is better and worse. At least the fact is that 'Herzeleid' sounds rawer. 'Mutter’, on the other hand, sounds smoother, more produced. However, 'Herzeleid' was then in a more extreme position than 'Mutter’ years later. Don't forget when the albums came out. 'Mutter' came out at a time (2001) when many other guitar bands were making records that sounded as good or better than our songs. That's why 'Mutter’ didn't go down in history as a milestone. In hindsight, I find 'Herzeleid' rather cute and today I don't think: Wow, what a sound!

Your producer was Jacob Hellner from the start. To exaggerate: when he hears his work on 'Mutter’, he should almost be ashamed of 'Herzeleid'.

He learned as much as we did and at the time did the best work he was capable of. Both he and we went to our limit at the time. When I see an old photo of myself, I feel ashamed of the clothes I wore back then. Then I think: man, what were you wearing back then? It becomes difficult when I already know now that I think it's very good and that in three years' time I'll also be ashamed. It's always like that.

And is it the same with your sound?

Exactly. At first you think in awe: Mannomann! That's what the Beatles used to think after hearing their four-track recordings. According to the motto: Now the bass drum really has steam (laughs)! And that's exactly how it is with us. When we hear our new songs today, we are totally blown away by the sound and think: Awesome! But in ten years the record will be in the oldie department.

It is said that with 'Mutter’ you couldn't repeat your previous success in the USA and instead had to start from scratch.

Not from the start. But we had a huge success with our second record 'Sehnsucht' and with the single 'Du hast'. That single did fantastic in the States and we had way more success than we could ever have imagined. We took this success for granted and thought: Alright, America is at our feet! Later we were surprised that 'Mutter’ wasn't doing so well.

At first we thought we had to play over there more often. So that's what we did. However, there was also the fact that a certain person, who had looked after us fantastically up until then, left our American record company. This person was infected by us and that is exactly why it is so valuable to us. And England showed that things can be done differently: 'Mutter’ was our most successful record there. All in all, it was certainly helpful for us to experience that things can go not only uphill, but also downhill. However, we were able to cope well with the decline in America because things were going very well in Europe.

Isn't it the case for rock bands in the USA: out of sight, out of mind?

No, because the closer Rammstein fan community isn't there like before. We are established in Europe. In the States, on the other hand, we are still considered exotic, a kind of insider tip with a certain, solid basis. And that base is about 2,000 people per concert. And the people who go beyond that base belong to the "out of sight, out of mind" category.

What were you doing at half past four in the morning on Easter Sunday?

Wait a minute, I can tell you exactly that: I just dreamed of a camel.

So you weren't sitting in front of the telly watching heavyweight boxing?

Klitschko? No, I have not.

I'm asking because your hit 'Sonne' was originally intended as a marching anthem for Wladimir Klitschko.

Yes, but the song was too hard for him.

Was the song really too hard, or do Klitschko think that Rammstein is an evil band?

Does that mean that Klitschko is too nice? Maybe (laughs). We thought it up really well: The whole arena counts — one, two, three, up to ten, and then "Out!”. Exactly at "Out!” Klitschko comes into the arena and goes to the ring. The moment he raises his arms in the ring, the chorus sounds: "Here comes the sun! “ That was the plan.

Anyway, the idea was great.

Yes, the idea was good. He should have done that, then maybe he wouldn't have suffered defeats. As for his last fight, I think someone put something in his water.

Maybe it was just fear that paralyzed him.

No, he was obviously in shape.

Or it was fear of one's own courage.

He may not have any courage to be afraid of. Ah, I don't know. Maybe someone who finds Rammstein too hard is too soft for boxing. He's too weak.

Was 'Sonne’ created specifically because of Klitschko?

Yes, if there hadn't been this request back then, the song wouldn't have existed like this. When the request came, Till sat down and described the topic of boxing in words so that it didn't seem so flat. And then the song came into being in the rehearsal room.

What if there was a request from hockey, football or wrestling?

Oh no, we like the Klitschkos. I also think that the two brothers still have their careers ahead of them.

In any case, one of your best songs ever remained from the failed story.

And that's why it didn't matter that things didn't work out with Klitschko. The song was good. In any case, we thought: You can't force someone to be happy. If someone really wants to march in to Tina Turner's 'You're Simply The Best', they can. It's a nice song too (chuckles).

And then there was a video clip with the big Snow White and you as six little dwarfs.

Yes, we generally try not to translate a video clip as a one-to-one text translation. In addition to the text, the viewer should be offered images that create another level that he would never reach without images.

Does the example 'Sonne' show that you are not fixed in terms of content and that you cannot be grasped, or does it show that the Rammstein brand is primarily about imagination?

It shows that we're pretty great. Before Snow White, we had the idea that there would be six of us on the plane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

You're not serious.

Yes! First comes the refrain - "Here comes the sun" - then the bomb goes off. However, we would have shown it as it really was. The pilots who sat in the atomic bomb planes are already dead. They took their own lives after being shattered by what they had done.

Immediately after the drop, one of the pilots yelled: "Oh, my God! What have I done?”

Exactly. The pilots had forfeited their lives. Anyway, we wanted to show how six people can do something like that.

Not a single music station would have broadcast this clip, especially not in the USA.

You shouldn't think like that. You have to think that you want to make a good video. Whether it will then be sent is the second question. However, that was one of many ideas that we ultimately scrapped. We now also calculate whether the masses could misunderstand us and our concerns. I can tell from your reaction that people wouldn't have understood us. At least I would have liked it if the atomic bomb had gone off in contrast to the beautiful chorus. Nobody could have resisted a corresponding feeling.

Certainly not. But the general public would completely misunderstand you. They would be outraged.

That's what everyone thinks. And that's why it's bullshit.

But what would have happened if it had worked out with Klitschko? Do you have an idea up your sleeve for this case?

Nope I don't know what would have happened then. Maybe then we would have done something together with Klitschko. But that would have been a shame, because we really enjoyed the Snow White story. The video shoot lasted two days. If we didn't feel like driving home from Babelsberg, we immediately slept in the little dwarf house. A friend of ours drove to the gas station and got a box with various drinks. After that we got locked in the studio and had a real dwarf party in the dwarf house. In the making-of part of the 'Lichtspielhaus' - DVD there is a place where Flake looks a bit disorganized and has some difficulties.

'Mutter’ was created to a large extent in a little house on the Baltic Sea...

The songs come from different places. But then we usually go to a place to record them as pre-production. As if summarizing all the notes. The last time the pre-production took place in Heiligendamm on the Baltic Sea.

The Baltic Sea seems to be very important to you, because some of you used to spend the summer time on the island of Hiddensee with your band Feeling B during the GDR era.

We still do. There are only two ways to go: Either you go to the mountains or to the sea.

Did you get to know each other better than ever in the little house in Heiligendamm - that is, in a small space?

No. The best way to get to know each other is on tour, because it doesn't get any closer than that. It's a bit like in the submarine. Every now and then you turn up and play a concert (laughs).

How did your new album come about? How can we imagine your new record without hearing a sound?

In contrast to our previous three albums, the new record was written in a different constellation. The ones who used to bring in a lot of ideas have stepped back this time, and those who used to have few song ideas are much more represented this time.

Who belongs to which group?

That is not important. It is important that the new album has a different tone color for the reason mentioned. And: In contrast to the last record, we had a lot of fun this time. The knot has broken. Also, due to time constraints for songwriting and pre-production, we didn't leave this time, but stayed in Berlin.

Does your statement mean that you had little fun working on 'Mutter'?

Yeah, 'Mutter’ really wasn't that much fun. The famous third album, as the saying goes. There were also personal reasons. After eight or nine years, the balance of power had shifted within the band. It actually happens in every band that Ritchie Blackmore quits because he can't go on with Jon Lord anymore. For years their friction was refreshing for the listeners, but at some point it gets on everyone involved so much that one has to drop out.

But nobody left Rammstein.

No, not that. But we also had gossip and stress between two people because of competence difficulties as well as over- and underestimation. We had to reorient ourselves. It also cracked. But — I knock on wood! — we got through it well, so we could work on the fourth album with fun.

You certainly don't want to mention the names of the two.

Correct. It can happen to anyone, because everyone is unreasonable from time to time.

Back to the richness of tone again: Can you speak of any major differences to 'Mutter’?

We tried to embed the vocals even more into the music. Or to put it another way: the music is more than ever a ring in which the singing comes into its own. Like ten white tigers. A platform, an aircraft carrier for the words (chuckles).

Very lyrically put...

Yes, I try to find the best words. In any case, the planes have to be able to take off nicely (laughs). Also, there are fewer riffs on the record because the guitars are kinda different.

More like a guitar rug?

I do not know it either. Somehow different. But there are people who have listened to it. In any case, for me the album is already different from 'Mutter’, and for the attentive Rammstein fan it certainly is too. Maybe not for my grandma, but every AC/DC song sounds the same to her. So do we: for some it will sound different, for others the new record is exactly the same. And both parties are probably right.

As someone who still appreciates your performance on 'Mutter’, I would like to say quite heretically: the new record can only be a disappointment. It's almost impossible to top 'Mutter’ or at least match it with an equal successor.

But I'm not making a record to top the last one. I always try to make a good album. Now that may sound boring. But your girlfriend won't break up with you either because you have a better...Okay, maybe that's a bad example (laughs).

You can really only find one girlfriend, any one. If you're lucky, it's a good one, and if you're unlucky, she looks pretty but she's daft. A woman can be pretty and everyone thinks, man, why doesn't he stay with her? But her character is completely insane. An album can also sound good, but it must also be fun to write this album. It has often been my experience that people who are less successful work very hard and without fun to be successful. And that, in contrast, people who tend to languish are mostly in good spirits. I have also met people who are very successful and who are totally relaxed.

What can I say: Metallica also continued after their black album. You don't write a good album so that you can't make another one afterwards. Rather, you try to make a good album every time. Or to put it diplomatically: another album, a further development.

Single song titles and various album titles are already floating around. Which titles actually exist?

First the record was going to be be called 'Amore', then 'Rosenrot', and finally we got to 'Rot'. At the moment it has no name at all and we call it 'The Red Album' in everyday parlance. We used to always choose the title after one of the songs, but that doesn't come out on this record. For example, a song is called 'Stein um Stein'. That somehow doesn't fit as an album title. So we're still looking. Another piece is called 'Rosenrot'.

Which is definitely about a woman...

It's about women always wanting something. And the man does it even though he knows it's not good — not good for either of them. But he does it anyway, and in the end he dies. What else can I tell you? A song about Moscow is included. And one about America.

Because you've been to both Russia and the US?

Not necessarily. One song is specifically about the city of Moscow. The America song is about our current relationship with America and the current situation. Lots of people bitch about America, opinion has swung against America a lot lately — because of that country's impeccable foreign policy (chuckles).

On the other hand, I looked in my closet. There were four jackets from America hanging in there. If you complain that the Americans get involved everywhere and are everywhere, then you should start with yourself. It's true that America is everywhere. But in many cases it can only be there because it is wanted. They don't force you to go to Burger King or put on Levi's. In this respect, it is about the positive and the negative in one whole.

A topic that would have been unthinkable at Rammstein five years ago.

Yes, but the America song in particular came to mind, because when we started work on the record, the Iraq war was on. You couldn't avoid that. We weren't looking for such a song theme, rather it was over-present.

By the way: Another innovation is that a little Russian and a little English is sung on the record. Possibly also French, but we don't know that yet. The album isn't designed to be international, but it's not one hundred percent German.

Russian isn't that far off.

Well, everything and nothing is far-fetched.

In any case, Russian fits very well with Till's form of expression.

We weren't specifically looking for that. It just turned out that way.

Richard Kruspe-Bernstein, your fellow guitarist, once said in an earlier interview that you want to make pop music with heavy riffs. Pop music also means that you reach a wide audience. At what point can one say in the case of Rammstein that you've reached a large audience, and at what point would an album be a flop in your eyes?

You have reached a broad mass when you look into the audience and there are men with mustaches standing there.

Everyone has a different definition of when an album is a flop. Personally, I don't go so much by sales numbers. Michael Jackson has sold about 40 billion or 40 million copies of 'Thriller' (laughs). The record after it only managed eight million and was a flop in his eyes and in the eyes of the media.

Eight million! That would be an absolute rocket for us. In this respect, it is a matter of opinion what a flop is.

Let's get back to the DVD 'Lichtspielhaus'. I find both the bank robbery clip and the making-of of 'Ich will’ impressive. This clip required tremendous acting. Did you have to practice for it, or did you develop a certain momentum during the shooting because you realized that the clip could be a real hit?

So if boys are allowed to play shooting, they don't need extra training for it. No, that was easy for us, especially since each of us has criminal tendencies. But it was also hard at times: after this shoot I wouldn't want to rob a bank because this special task force KSK — or SEK or something like that — is really tough. Richard told them not to go easy on it, just make it look real. The guys slapped us so brutally on the floor that my nose bled the first time I turned. You can't see that in the clip.

Unfortunately, the video didn't run very long on TV because it came at a time when two planes crashed into the World Trade Center. So people weren't too keen on a video clip of bank robbers taking hostages. Osama was first and we couldn't top that.

How big was the effort for this clip?

One day of shooting in and around the GDR State Council building.

How much does something like that cost?

You're asking the wrong person. In any case, our manager had negotiated a good video budget with the record company. Normally a band gets around 30,000 euros there. We had maybe 300,000 euros. I don't know, but I'm guessing. We were just lucky, because at that time the treaties from peacetime still existed before the whole dilemma began with the majors.

Your bass player Olli says in the making-of that your self-confidence when it comes to your own songs is washed. Does that mean that you weren't particularly comfortable with your early songs, with which you had incredible success?

No, we were just six naïve East Germans who were let loose on trained journalists. And we've awkwardly tried to resist things we shouldn't have resisted. When I read or listen to our old interviews, I always feel a bit ashamed. On the one hand we had no idea and on the other hand we always meant the best. But actually, from today's perspective, it's just embarrassing.

If people accused me of being right-wing radicals today, I would just giggle. In the past, I would have launched a lengthy defense speech. Kind of like: "But we... There and there..."

At that time, after all these accusations, we only started to think about who we are, what we have done and where we wanted to go. In the beginning we just started without thinking about what we are doing.

The piece 'Ich will’ is to be seen as a homage to being a rock star.

Exactly.

Other bands behave in an awkward manner on stage, annoy with percussion solos and animate with “Heyheyhey!” - and “Ohohoh!” - Call the audience to participate. You've exacerbated the whole thing by making fun of it.

The song is typical for us, because it's meant to be ironic, but then again it's not. Of course we're making fun of bands that start these join-in choirs. But we use it ourselves. We're also happy when people stand down and raise their arms and sing along. When we played 'Seemann' for the first time, we were terribly embarrassed that lighters were waved in the audience. It's okay now because it's part of it.

But there are different ways of animation. You can stand at the edge of the stage like Robbie Williams or Fred Durst and put your hand to your ear, which I find totally disgusting. I find sayings like: “Oh, this city here, Berlin. I love you, it's insane. It's the best concert of the whole tour." This is disgusting gluttony. But either people don't notice it or they don't see it as a prank. In this respect, these musicians should continue to do so.

You, on the other hand, generally don't talk on stage.

The man from the 'Tagesschau' doesn't say anything between the news either. He just presents the facts. It must be enough.

So Rammstein live means: facts, facts, facts.

(Laughs) We let the flames speak for us and don't have to say anything about it. There are many bands that don't talk. And there are bands that I find it cute when they talk a lot. For example Die Ärzte. I think the announcements are better than the music. When Farin talks, I'm happy.

What influence do daily events around the world and looking at the newspaper in the morning have on your ideas for songs and lyrics?

There are influences. For example, we're considering putting a piece about Armin Meiwes, the cannibal from Rotenburg, on our album.

Meiwes was convicted of eating another man...

What do you say: would you have judged him?

Morally, ha. I don't know whether he can be legally convicted.

Morally? Not that. He is legally to be condemned.

If you asked me to cook and eat you...

I would not do that.

But what if. And suppose I actually ate you. Then I would be a creature who should also be condemned from a moral point of view...

You cook your soup chicken too, and it didn't even ask you to. I find it a bit cheeky: When two people make up, one person asks, "Will you marry me?”, and the other one says “Yes, okay!”, because as a third party you don't interfere in their affairs. That's what the two actors in the cannibal story wanted. And if they were fine doing it, I see no reason to get involved.

That's what the stuff movies are made of.

If we did a music video about it, we could take parts from the original video that was shown in court.

But back to the topic: We can't imagine in our imagination that there are people who think it's good when they're peed on. Or that men who work in managerial positions find it good to be humiliated and whipped in a brothel. But there's all that, and there's a lot more, a lot more crass stuff. And when one of the crass things comes to light, everyone is suddenly surprised. Although such things always and everywhere exist.

And what if a cannibal goes unpunished, finds the next victim, kills and eats them against their will - but claims it was consensual?

He can have this confirmed in writing beforehand, quasi by a notary. Like euthanasia, which I support, by the way. I also think it's crazy that you have to buckle up in the car. Everyone should decide for themselves whether they want to buckle up or not. In general, I find the prescribing of security stupid. Everyone should do what they want. I don't mean speed limits in dangerous places. If someone is so stupid and thunders around the corner too fast, they should be punished for it. But if he doesn't want to buckle up, he's supposed to have the right to die on the tree.

Or traffic lights on the street: I have never signed anywhere in my life with which I agreed that I could go green and have to stop at red. I think it's cheeky that I have to stick to these rules. There used to be a forest here through which you could walk freely. Today there is a street with a traffic light. Actually, every citizen should take an oath at the beginning of his life: "I am willing to submit to myself here.” Instead, you are born and you are told: “Well, now join in here! Go join the army and get yourself shot for us! Pay taxes and stop at red”.

Were you in the army?

No, I didn't have time for that. But I pay quite a lot of taxes. If I get two apples from my record company, I have to give one apple back immediately.

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