#manhwa vs donghua

[lithi]

Im NOT daijobu

[inkyminx]

🥁

~ Since the holidays are here & new years is right around the corner, I thought I’d join this trend and show the pieces I’m most proud of for many different reasons!

[manhwa-horses]

Hey there! I don’t have any interesting or strange horses to share with you, so sorry to bother you. :c

I found your blog due to you also using the manhua tag, but I thought I’d just let you know all the horses you’ve shared so far are from manhwa!

I didn’t want to impulsively send this ask so I did scroll through your blog a little to confirm, and I also saw the post you reblogged about manhua vs manhwa vs manga and donghua vs aeni vs anime, where you tagged it mentioning how you read these comics in English so you aren’t sure of the origins.

That’s kind of fair, especially since most of the manhwa you post have settings that are inspired by Europe, so the names can’t easily identify whether it’s Korean or Chinese…

But beyond some telltale visual signs (manhwa for women in these European settings are often very sparkly, with 3D CGI assets on even the clothes—eg lace or other detailing—as well as for the backgrounds—like the horses you post (and most webcomics do use 3D in the background, but there is a je ne sais quois for manhwa), while action and BL manhwa usually use thicker black lines and lips and bodies), there’s also the website Baka-Updates! It tracks comics of all kinds and will tell you the origin of a comic (manga, manhua, manhwa).

Most things on Webtoon will also be manhwa, because it started off as a Korean company, so while some western webcomics are also published there, it doesn’t have many manhua from China. Manhua are usually posted to sites like Bilibili or Kuaikan, and while the former had its own English app for a while and the latter usually licenses their stuff to INKR or Tapas, it’s true quite a few manhua still remain inaccessible to the west. Even fan translations barely scratch the surface of all the manhua out there.

As you can see, I’m a manhua fan and visit the manhua tag pretty often, but due to it being pretty underrated, it’s kind of hard to find stuff on it in the western side of the Internet sometimes (especially when people do still mistag manhua as manhwa). So since I can stumble on quite a few of your posts but they all feature manhwa instead of manhua, I thought I’d just let you know!

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback! I’ll have to check out Baka-Updates in the future. :)

[reicheries]

intro post

hello,

i'm rei- here's an intro post for your viewing pleasure:

favorite things:

shows, movies:

scott pilgrim vs the world, your name, suzume, scott pilgrim takes off, adventure time, the umbrella academy, spiderman into/across the spider verse, coraline, the owl house, arcane

podcasts:

welcome to night vale

books:

solitaire, radio silence, crime and punishment, bunny

manga, anime, manhwa, manhua, donghua, comics:

destroy it all and love me in hell, scott pilgrim, fairy tail, cherry crush, inso’s law, i reincarnated as the little sister of a death game manga’s murder mastermind and failed, little witch academia, girl under trial, lost in the cloud, chainsaw man, sk8 the infinity, mob psycho 100, blue period, nude model, alien stage, god troubles me, our peter pan, act age, bungo stray dogs, firefly wedding, apothecary diaries, skip and loafer, the one within the villainess

games:

omori, night in the woods, fran bow, project sekai, ensemble stars, genshin impact, wuthering waves, danganronpa 1, legend of zelda (botw, oot, etc.), homicipher

musicians:

the arctic monkeys, eve, ado, mitski, hatsune miku, atarashii gakko, connor crow, lee so ra, mass of the fermenting dregs

creators:

yemsao, yoo ryeo han, mariyasu, hiroko utsumi, alice oseman, naphia, cantobear, yamaguchi tsubasa, aidairo, sakuraopal, bluebiscuits, skyewei, 9bamela, hayao miyazaki

posts:

i’ll probably post my random thoughts, my art, or anything I find interesting at the moment.

i reblog barely anything.

[shyfandomfan]

So, I can ether keep this skin tone for him or

Go with something in the neutral or the cool tones, which makes me think of his appearance in the manhwa vs the donghua.

[marimopeace]

there's a limit on how much you can be an isekai intellectual...

a bunch of analyses have been popping up before me all day so i wanted to throw my hat into the ring. all love to ppl who are exercising their creative minds + ppl like geoff here who just talk about these things because of fan interest but i feel like there reaches a point where exploring the "types" of isekai is pointless? i've seen ppl list out the different types of villainess revenge isekai or fantasy mmorpg isekai but eh why fit them all into separate boxes like that?

i think it's easier to think of isekai as a "type" (genre) of itself with only two categories: 1) a focus on isekai (lit. another world) 2) tensei (lit. to be reborn). this allows for a variety of applications and thus tropes that ppl see so many trends of!

with isekai - in another world

you see everything from:

pure fantasy (inuyasha, digimon wait maybe not the best example but in my childhood mind i count digimon as pure fantasy, fushigi yugi)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (.hack//legend of twilight, sao ugh, log horizon, overlord (LOVE OVERLORD!)

otome game-esque worlds >>> this is where it gets complicated with "villainess routes" since i admit there are multiple villainess tropes but this is why it's nice to not think of this as a "sub-type/genre" bc it frees you from those complications! (the saint's magic power is omnipotent, the white cat's revenge as plotted from the dragon king's lap soso cute!, the savior's book cafe in another world, i'm a villainous daughter so i'm going to keep the last boss wait i can't remember if she's reborn in this one lmaooo see this is why rules make everything hard)

with tensei storylines - being reincarnated/reborn in another world as *insert character/role*

you see...

the same tropes!!

pure fantasy (a returner's magic should be special, reminiscence adonis, the lady and the beast, light and shadow, i can't think of a manga off the top of my head for this ah)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (so i'm a spider so what i stan kumoko so hard, her majesty's swarm, can't name another off the top of my head ah i hate lists shorter than two things...)

self-insert based games/novels (fiance's observation log of a self-proclaimed villainess, who made me a princess, death is the only ending for the villainess, the villainess wants to marry a commoner, honestly games vs novels are different applications but i'm not in the headspace to try to remember a bunch of both lol)

*insert line break to give random ppl a break from scrolling but tl; dr just enjoy things for what they are no need to micro analyze*

similar variations occur in both genres (if ppl want to be super technical i guess i'm arguing that isekai itself is a massive genre that has the "another world" subgenre and "reincarnation" subgenre tl; dr) so i think it's honestly a huge pain to try to separate all these trends into so many different types of stories. for me personally it's easier to not get overwhelmed by this gigantic umbrella of "isekai" that spans light novels, manhwa, manga, and mobile games by just stripping each story down into its trademark tropes (aka character archetypes, story structures) and slapping "oh this is a person going to a world that's not ours" and "this person gets reborn as blank in another world". none of this "omg this power fantasy is such a this kind of isekai moment" or "there are 14 different types of villainess revenge stories and this series fits into this" bc AH labels! limitations! circle-jerks via ppl trying to compartmentalize everything and sound smart for leaving a comment on story analysis instead of ooh-ahhing over a character's face! dividing things into light novel manga vs manga vs korean manhwa ft. female characters!

the last bit is mainly why i feel frustrated by ppl's insistence to group everything?

the video linked at the beginning of the post (honestly good video essay, i enjoyed it, i just kept thinking in my head the whole time "marimo these are tropes do not take the genre talk literally") has a baby comment thread talking about "korean isekai manhwas" as a genre featuring nothing but reincarnated villainess' and i can't.

like i cannot acknowledge that as a genre of any sort. the energy i felt reading through some of those insights takes me back to 2012 when all yt americans discovered k-pop and deemed all korean music k-pop from then on! (ppl still do this now, yes you are seen and don't talk to me pls i don't like you. k-pop is korean pop music and nothing less and nothing more. take a few seconds and try to parse apart aspects of korean culture instead of slamming everything into a monolithic label that has the letter k and a hyphen.) it feels so odd to see a bunch of young ppl on ig and tiktok acknowledge korean media that happens to be in the form of a webtoon as "oh stories all about young girls becoming villains in stories they made/played" bc it feels so reductive u.u

(positionality disclaimer that i'm praying isn't actually necessary: i am a 3rd-generation korean of japanese descent do not fite me i am exhausted irl of ppl asking for validation/verification bc massive shove off.)

breaking news! korean manhwa...is just as multifaceted as japanese manga...bc how can comics as an art-form not have multiple genres...huh such a shocker?!?! same likely applies to media in other parts of the world like chinese manhwa and french comics--not my place to explain either of those i just know those industries exist bc of wakfu and donghua shows by Tencent.

at the end of the day it's not like analyzing any kind of isekai is wrong--absolutely not!! i think it can be super fun to think about how isekai elements complicate a story (MCs trying to go back home, ppl from the og world, reincarnation plot-twists) or maybe even bash a series for including some kind of other world element when they could have just written a super fun fantasy.

insert marimo's brief ramble that hey you can get sick of truck-kun's hitting disillusioned guys who happen to be super duper smart or girls who happen to be master chefs/craftsmen but transporting a fully-grown being into a fantasy setting is the ultimate cheat code for making mundane modern technology seem cool and overpowered, and being reincarnated as a fully grown person in a world with a pre-made story/game set-up completely bypasses the need for an author to slowly flesh out world-building in a natural progression so isekai is actually a really smart writing tool it's just that there are some series where the author didn't use it well at all and it's cheesy or clearly isekai was misused as a vehicle for character/story development and it was pointless *DEEP BREATH OUT*

in this essay i will argue...lol i am such a culture studies major!! if i were an english major i would be talking all about writing but here i am having a side-tangent about world-building via someone being reborn wow i love this for me (don't get me started on when an author has someone reincarnate as a baby and the story is mostly them having warm fluffy moments with their family--typically father figures--and getting lots of powers i could and would and probably will rant about east asian toxicity)

but anyway am i crazy????? like yes for being passionate about the technical use of a word like genre (i am a scorpio rising let me be fussy pls) but i don't think it's a lot to ask for ppl to not unironically see "villainess revenge isekai" as the definition of korean manhwa.

idk as someone who resonates with why japanese isekai is so popular domestically + why a lot of korean manhwa feat. the same tropes (it's not for great reasons lads it's actually depressing tbh) i'm just starting to feel kind of pained by the generalization and need to separate "cute japanese girl in an otome game"/"japanese boy finds a harem in another world" from "korean girl dies and comes back as a villainess" bc they are just! applications to the same story device!!

recommendations for any who makes it this far down below <3

// also gladly recommend any of the examples i've listed in the above rant as i've read/watched all of them and adore them v much! //

save me princess

super refreshing fantasy manhwa ft. a princess and her ex-boyfriend having to save the world!

the beginning after the end

an AMERICAN web novel turned into a comic (but see it being not korean/japanese doesn't really matter when you just consider isekai as a genre...isn't it nice to not overthink it?) ft. a super-powerful wizard king reincarnated into another world and starting from scratch--gives mushoku tensei vibes but huge twists!

the reason why raeliana ended up at the duke's mansion

love love LOVE this story--read the title and you'll learn how this girl reincarnated as the character raeliana in a book gets married to a duke!

trash of the count's family

such a good novel!! a guy gets reborn as a lazy oaf and he takes the hero of the story under his wing...plot twists come up later on!

this time i will definitely be happy!

v good and refreshing for a shorter series! she's been reborn 3 times and remembers every time the hero's stabbed her in the back, and now she just wants to break up with him!

silver diamond

older manga but v good adventure w intrigue! a boy who loves plants get sucked into a desert world with demonic lizards and a mysterious bodyguard by his side. shonen-ai not BL but wonderful vibes nonetheless + great side characters!

the princess imprints a traitor

adore everything in this from the world (not in that way this society makes me so angry) to the machinations at play and the dynamic between the fl and ml

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I love ur takes but I'm kind still impressed by ur persistent hate for cql. The novel is the base but all the medias adapted from it take a single aspect of the story and make it their own. Look at the manhwa, audio drama, donghua or the drama. I still dont know what ur issue with the drama is coz for a low budget drama with censorship they did everything they could for the novel fans (yes they recorded straight bit so if they had issues they will go straight but they are a drama)... yes they added a few things for the show to telecast it for the chinese consumption (they dont really need white validation unlike kdrama which has more ifandom). Both cql or winter begonia were handled very well and the dramas were overnight hits coz of the scriptwriters and directors keeping the novel story alive.

I think it's also coz u and most white fans of the novel or cql haven't seen anime and its live actions so u dont know that the live actions made in different periods of time change the story according to the area they're being released in... Itazura na Kiss has 3 live action dramas and all three are from different countries and different time periods so the way all three are adapted are alot different eventhough the base story is the same. If u want to follow the novel read that but if u want to enjoy the story cql, donghua, audio drama of MDZS and the manhwa are very nicely done. I hope just coz white cql fans have issues with the novel u dont spread hate for the drama that has made it possible for a relationship to be shown between two men. The asians arent as thick to think they're best friends, everyone who watches the drama knows that it's a gay love story

Hi anon, 

There’s a lot in there and honestly I don’t think I can address all of your points. But I’ll try my best.

I have said many times that I do not hate CQL and that I enjoyed watching most of it. It was a fun little idol drama that wasn’t a very serious watch. At the beginning I even enjoyed the fandom for a little while. Now, yes, I do post a lot of content that is negative toward CQL and/or its fandom. But you may have noticed a few things though. My criticisms (or my moments of incomprehension) are always related to:

Specific issues I have with the choices it made as an adaptation

People trying to pass CQL, a cheaply-made idol drama, as a masterpiece. This is nothing personal against CQL: it has more to do with how it puzzles me that people don’t see to know what competent and good tv looks like. I have nothing against people praising the show, but they don’t have to act as it doesn’t have a lot of basic, technical issues. 

the CQL fandom cross-posting everything, or bringing CQL canon and fanon into novel-specific discussions. People can mix and match the canons, of course, but it’d be a nice courtesy to be at least open about it so that people who want to stick to one canon may be able to do so. And it is frustrating because people like me have literally just given up on trying to read fics because authors are not forthcoming about which canon they are drawing from. That’s frustrating and a source of bitterness!

arguments that CQL is a stronger/more complex work of fiction than MDZS. Again, it’s nothing personal about CQL, it’s just mind-boggling having to explain something so fucking transparent. 

arguments that CQL is better “queer rep” than MDZS.

absolutely whack takes from the CQL western fandom.

You feel that the screenwriter and director kept the story alive, and hey, that’s great for you. Yes, I’m aware that adaptations will change things. Analysing adaptations is actually partly how I developed a lot of my media analysis skills. However, I personally believe that the story that CQL tells and how it chooses to tell it fundamentally changes so much about the narrative, the characters or even the genre of the story that it does not keep the truly interesting and engaging elements of the novel. It might be flippant to say, but even if the production team were truly doing their best (and I do believe they did), it doesn’t mean they achieved what they set out to do--and some of it may just come down to a question of skills, as story-tellers. 

Although I am white, I may not fit into the narrative you present since I have watched many live actions and animated series adapting a manga/manhua/novel. I watched my first jdrama 15 years ago, and to be illustrative, this first jdrama was Hana Yori Dango. In the past I’ve also watched many dramas that were originally japanese/taiwanese/chinese/korean and their adaptations. Hell, sometimes even adaptations that crossed to the western market. I assure you that I am familiar with a property being adapted at different times and in different countries and through different mediums. I’ve also interacted with the other adaptations of MDZS. The thing is, what this has showed me is simply that doing something differently doesn’t translate necessarily in doing as good of a job. Adaptations can fail, either by virtue of what they fail to do as their own work of fiction, or as adaptations of an existing property. 

I’m not trying to shit on to what CQL may mean for chinese audiences or diasporic chinese audiences as well. When I point out the fact that Wangxian is just subtext in CQL, it’s not because I think “asian audiences are dumb” but because the reason why subtext may be acceptable under censorship is that it keeps a level of plausible deniability. Some people will of course recognise it for what it is, but some will simply not pick up on it or refuse that reading. I also do take pains to remind people how the flow of capital that allows for these adaptations to exist may have to do with how far the portrayal of the subtext is being pushed over any concerns for the original story or nebulous gay rights. I do find it interesting though that CQL is often presented in fandom discussions as this unprecedented occurrence in Chinese media, since there was very heavy subtext in earlier live action adaptations like Guardians or the side couple in Love H2O, just to think of quick examples. 

But obviously anon, my more salty or bitter posts about cql seem to bring up frustrations, so if it is an impediment to your fandom experience it might be best to simply unfollow me. If you wish to stay for the novel meta and avoid these posts, I do tag them with either “brine corner” or “cql negativity” or “cql vs mdzs”.

[lithi]

I’m so happy!!! Everything is sparkles and rainbows

[lithi]

Cinematic parallels

[lithi]

Donghua!Athy is wearing this same dress but in purple (for some reason)!

[lithi]

The animation really does justice to the manhwa

[lithi]

Very small differences between manhwa Athy and donghua Athy! Her little cuffs?? on her arms aren’t the same and the bodice of her dress is a bit different too.

[lithi]