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Spring 2024 Lagniappe

And we're back! It's been a long production season for us, and we've still got projects to talk about! Join us and @twig-tea once more to answer our inbox questions and do quick takes on a bunch of projects we didn't cover in long form, and then hear Ben and NiNi catch up on a few shows or movies, wrap up the season, award Girl You Tried, and ponder the future.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations 00:10:17 - Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL 00:16:04 - Catch Up Corner: Young Royals Season 3 00:21:23 - Catch Up Corner: Man Suang 00:25:12 - Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You 00:29:23 - Twig’s Dispatch 00:38:35 - Winter Round Up 00:44:45 - Girl, You Tried 00:47:35 - Look Ahead

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

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00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations

Ben

And we're back. We have finally made it to the end of what feels like our longest production season we have ever been in.

NiNi

I feel like we have been recording this season since last season and we're recording right up to the end of the season. Our first recording for this season was on the 28th of January.

Ben

Oh my God!

NiNi

We've been here forever. We're going to change some things up going forward, and we'll tell you guys more about that when we figure it out.

But for now, welcome to our spring lagniappe. Let's go into our inbox. We have two great questions from two new names and we also have a very special guest. Say hi, Twig.

Twig

Hi everyone.

NiNi

Twig is back with us, and she's gonna help us answer some of these questions.

Our first question comes from @hellooobees and hellooobees writes: “I'm sure you plan to discuss something similar to this, but now that we have the Japanese and the Thai adaptations of Cherry Magic with the anime also airing, I would really like to know your opinions about them and the unique flavors they add to the mix.”

Thank you for the question, hellooobees. Ben, you've been tracking all of these adaptations. What are your opinions about the different versions of Cherry Magic now and what parts you enjoyed differently about different versions of the Cherry Magic story?

Ben

I'd say for Cherry Magic, I'm really glad that Akaso Eiji and Keita Machida were the ones who introduced us to Cherry Magic. I think both of those actors are really good, and considering what we now know about how much was changed in Cherry Magic, I think it was good that they had two solid actors who could handle that and bring some pathos to that when they were asked to do that.

But I gotta be honest, having now seen complete versions of the Cherry Magic story as it was originally written out, I will not be returning to the original Japanese live action. The Thai live action is probably the best version in the sense that it's the most watchable, and I think the most consistently satisfying to watch. I think the cast of the Thai version is extremely good, and I think they're very funny. I think they all play off really well together, and I think the overall set of arcs that all the characters go through are really satisfying in that story.

The anime is probably my favorite. The Thai cast is just so likable. The anime cast is… not? And I think I like them more for that. We talked a lot about the Thai adaptation earlier when we had Shan on the podcast. Let's talk a little bit about anime one specifically.

Twig, what were some of your standouts and notes you took while we were watching this?

Twig

The anime is my favorite version too, not because it's better, but because I had a little more fun with the way the characters are less perfect. Adachi in the anime… he's a little bit mean! And it's delightful. I love a mean twink, and Adachi in the anime version of Cherry Magic—he's a little sullen and a little mean, and he hates people a little bit. He's got a little bit of a misanthropy thing going on that is missing—from my taste—from the other versions of Adachi.

My favorite moment is when he's standing on a street corner and he sees a couple canoodling, and he's. Just like, “Ugh, straight people.” [laughs] And it's like, yes! Go off.

Ben

He's always calling people normies in his head. It’s so fucking funny. [laughs]

Twig

It's like, “Fuck normies.” Like, yes, I love you! [NiNi and Twig laugh] He's also, like, a little bit less afraid to use his power for his own benefit. There's multiple times where he's like, “Oh, I'm just gonna find out what this person's thinking just because I wanna know.” And he has does moral qualms about it. I really enjoy that more morally gray character that we get in the anime.

NiNi

I have a question, actually, about the use of the different mediums and cultures. Is there anything that, for example, in the anime version, the medium of anime allows them to do that wouldn't play as well in a live action version, or vice versa even?

Ben

There's a really great example of that around the date episode. The [Thai] episode ends with Achi first having a long conversation with Jinta at their cafe, and then he goes to Karan and they have a really big heart to heart moment. That is probably the best way to do that in live action. The actors only have to build the emotions once. Today we are filming this really big emotional scene about the date, and the actors can be ready for that.

But what I think anime allows you to do is the story can spread those scenes across multiple locations. In the anime version Adachi and Kurosawa unpack their bad date across a series of interactions, across like one or two days. A little bit at work, a little bit while they’re walking in the street, a little bit hanging out at a bar later, and then walking home.

You can do that in anime because you just can place the recordings at the settings that you want to put them in. And I prefer the way the anime handled the fallout of that bad date, but it's harder to do that in live action because it's hard to get the actors to deliver the right chemistry and mood in eight filming locations for a single overarching conversation.

Twig

I think also there is something about the medium that allows the characters to be a little bit more gray and still be lovable because everybody is in more of an extreme. If actors were trying to portray the level of intensity of emotion the anime characters do, that—it would feel very off putting. But characters are allowed to make giant faces beyond what a human can actually make in reality, [Ben laughs] and so I think it's easier to allow people to be more dislikeable and still be loved.

Ben

Twig and I really like how unlikable the anime cast is. That may seem incredibly weird, but like Rokkaku is so insufferable in the early episodes. And like, Fujisaki as a fujo is way more off-putting. Adachi is such a bitch, and then Kurosawa is intense and also aloof. I understand why Kurosawa is single in this version.

Twig

Yes, yes, exactly. [laughs]

Ben

With Karan it’s like, “Why is this man single?” And with Achi, it's like, “My body’s tofu.” Sir, you are New Thittipoom. [Ben and NiNi laugh] We are looking at them trying to pretend like you don't have these enormous fucking shoulders with the way they cut that shirt. Please.

That gets a little bit fanciful in Cherry Magic Thailand that these guys are single, because they're both really emotionally available for the most part. Achi is just kind of shy.

Twig

Yeah. I also just really like how much more Adachi as a character makes his own decisions proactively in the anime. In the other two versions, Achi and Adachi, feel very led along by the hand by Kurosawa and Karan.

NiNi

Okay, so I think we have a hierarchy. We have a best, a favorite and an original, I think. If that's a hierarchy.

Ben

If you're asking us in a vacuum, like, what's the best one like to show someone so that they'll be impressed with the Cherry Magic story, they should watch the Thai version.

Twig

Yeah.

Ben

If you're asking us what I think my favorite expression of the story is, I really think it's the anime. I really like this version of the cast, like, I like Tsuge and Minato the most in the anime, too. I don't really wanna recommend the original Japanese live action anymore. And it's not because I think they did a bad job with that one. It's just, they made some changes to the story and ended up kind of spinning around towards the end.

Twig

One of the things I focus on about all of the adaptations is that whatever changes were made to the story, the way the characters are changed to work with that was done really well. The characters feel true in each version of the story, and they feel different in each adaptation as a result.

Ben

For those of you who don't watch a lot of anime, or for those of you who do watch anime, there are some real knocks on Cherry Magic anime. The walk animations are not great, particularly when someone's coming from the background to the foreground. Oh my God. There's a Kurosawa walking towards him moment that will haunt me for the rest of the time. [Twig laughs]

I feel like I have to make that note because anime fans are very particular about animation and art. This is from a B-tier studio. So, be nice.

00:10:17 - Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL

NiNi

Let's move on to our next question that comes from happypotato48. And they write, “With all the recent news about Thai bl remakes and adaptations, it's getting me thinking if the industry is going to do remakes, why only BL, why not remake old hetero dramas or movies into QL/ GL/BL? So my question is, if you could pick one older or more recent non-queer Asian media that you wish to get remade into a QL/GL/BL, which one would you pick?”

I mean, I have my clear answers.

Ben

I really want you to go first because you are far more familiar with het romance than I am.

NiNi

My number one answer to this kind of question is always going to be Twenty-Five Twenty-One, because as far as I'm concerned, Twenty-Five Twenty-One is already a GL, they just got confused about what it was supposed to be. Twenty-Five Twenty-One is a Korean sports drama about fencers, and it has one of the greatest female/female relationships, supposedly a friendship, but I'm sorry, this was a romance to me. As far as I'm concerned, these two girls fell in love and it made me completely hungry for sports GL. That hunger that has not yet been appropriately fulfilled.

My other answer, which is an interesting one ‘cause I've been trying to get Ben to watch this. It's My Country: The New Age, fantastic historical kdrama about the birth of the Joseon era. Very warriors’ bond. And yeah, I would make that BL. I think it would work really, really well.

What about you Twig? Where’s your head at with this question?

Twig

All right, so I had one immediately come to mind because I'm still mad that it wasn't queer to begin with. It felt like it was supposed to be. Nana. Nana is a Japanese manga, I think they even did a live action. It's about these two women who are both named Nana moving into an apartment together, and they are so queer and the underlying theme of the show is so queer. Everybody in that show is so queer. And then they made them straight, and I'm still mad about it. I'm like, “You were wrong. You're just wrong about who these characters are and who they're in love with.” That one absolutely needs to be made into a GL, please and thank you. Also the aesthetic would make me very happy. [laughs] So I just want to see it.

The other one that came to mind is partially because I'm watching it now, but Hospital Playlist. It’s right there. It would be so easy to remake as a BL.

NiNi

Who would you put together?

Twig

Oh don't, don't put me on the spot. [laughs]

NiNi

Come on. I'm putting you on the spot. Who would you put together?

Twig

Who would you choose?

NiNi

Ik Jun and Jun Wan, I would absolutely make them a couple. I think they're fantastic. Not that I don't love Hospital Playlist exactly as it is, but if there had been an Ik Jun/Jun Wan romance, I would have also loved that.

What about you, Ben? Where do you sit with this?

Ben

This one is always a difficult question for me because the reason I'm watching Asian drama is for queer reasons. So like, I don't go out of my way to watch a bunch of that stuff. So unfortunately I do not have a het drama that I would like to see redone as a BL. The ones I've seen were basically BL already, like Coffee Prince is clear. It does not need to be remade to be more BL. And I don't actually think that Goblin would be better if it was a BL. I think it works as it is, and I don't really want to change that.

So I'm going to cheat. I'm not using an Asian drama for this. I want to see a gay version of Really Love. Which is like this generation’s Love Jones.

NiNi

This generation has a Love Jones?

Ben

It's really fucking good.

NiNi

Am I gonna have to watch this?

Ben

You really should. You need to go write this down and go watch it. These two people who are vibing at, like, maybe not the right time in their lives and the success that they're starting to get professionally and creatively is getting in the way of their ability to have the romance that is really important to them.

I think about that film at least once a month. I'd like to see a gay version of that.

NiNi

I have made a note, dear friend.

Ben

And it's about black people. So you should watch it.

NiNi

Always a win.

Ben

One of the reasons why I have really taken to Asian dramas is the west—particularly Americans—really fucking hate romance and I really like how earnestly—particularly Korean dramas—engage with romance. I think it's what makes BL possible. There's a real appreciation for romance itself in this part of the world.

I wish I had a better answer for this one, because I think it's a fun question.

NiNi

That's gonna wrap us up on the questions this season. Thank you guys so much. We always love hearing from our listeners. Please, don't be a lurker, don't be shy. Please send us questions. We love them so much.

00:16:04 - Catch Up Corner: Young Royals Season 3

NiNi

So before we get into the things that I actually watched, like way, way behind the curve, like two years behind the curve, let's get into some of the stuff that we actually caught up on this season that was, I suppose, current. There's two things that we had been waiting for. The first one was the third season of Young Royals and the second was finally being able to watch Man Suang.

Let's talk a little bit about Young Royals 3. I watched the whole thing. Ben still has not finished it. Ben, what did you think of the parts of Young Royals 3 that you have watched so far? How far have you gotten into it? Are you planning to finish it? And what do you think of it?

Ben

I got to Simon is grounded, Wille can't really leave the school now because of the curfew. I think that's as far as I got. I'll say this much: I like that this show seems to take the reality of dating a public figure seriously. I like that Simon is struggling with being online because you can't not be online in the modern age, and he is not given any real training for how to deal with it. Wille is given no fucking training either, he's like, “I'll handle it.” Really? Y’all let this impulsive boy who punches people whenever he gets mad and then just says whatever on national TV, he's in charge of teaching him on how to engage with social media? Okay, sure. Whatever.

But I'm enjoying the struggle they're having with being public. It's different when your whole relationship has been kind of closeted and now you're suddenly out. You have to get used to what that means, and maybe this isn't exactly what you wanted. I like where it feels like the show is going on the front end, but because I know there's a lot of angst ahead for them and I haven’t been in a very high energy mood for a bit to deal with that, I have not been in a hurry to continue it.

NiNi

Though we, the show has presented this thing about being in a relationship with a public figure, for me, tying that back to some of the Asian BL that I've seen, I always go back to the Lovely Writer well. Having these stories in the western context is always really interesting. Interesting in the sense of, I haven't seen something like this be done in the queer western space, but also in the fact that I've seen these stories now. I've seen them in the Asian space and so they feel familiar enough that I don't feel like they’re anything new or exciting, necessarily.

Did I enjoy Young Royals 3? I really did. But in terms of the Simon and Wille stuff, I like them. I enjoy their romance, I always have. But I felt a little bit like it had been done. And that's because I've been seeing these stories play out in Asian media for a while at this point. I thought that they did a great job writing it. I thought that it was fantastically acted. There's a sequence when Wille and Simon go swimming in the lake at sunrise that I think is definitely worth watching the entire season for, but, I feel like it's been done.

Ben

I will say on the way out from Young Royals that I want to applaud Omar Rudberg and Edvin Ryding for the execution of BGP over the last three or four years that they've been working together. I think those two have done a great job of managing the public version of their friendship and the professional requirements therein. They seem to have a really good handle on it, and it seems like their team did a really great job preparing them for all of this. They seem surprisingly chill for people who have gone through the BGP gauntlet.

NiNi

It has been some gauntlet and Edvin is a young actor in his first major role. I am very impressed with how he's handled himself.

Ben

It's just not one of the shows that I am most excited to watch, and some of that is me being kind of grumpy politically. When we're trying to advocate for non-English language media people seemingly struggle with having to read subtitles and don't wanna watch foreign content as a result. But had no problem showing up for this show. There's a wider conversation to have about how fandom will do anything for a white man, even read subtitles.

NiNi

Say it.

Ben

It's frustrating. I feel like I'm pettily not finishing Young Royals because I don't enjoy how people who say they want more queer stories have ignored BL and then bitched that there's no great queer stories and they watch Young Royals and they're like, “Oh my goodness, I've never seen anything like this.”

I will finish Young Royals. But I am frustrated with the Western audience rushing to watch this show, and then snubbing anything Asian immediately afterwards.

00:21:23 - Catch Up Corner: Man Suang

NiNi

The next thing we're gonna talk about a little bit is Man Suang. This is finally, finally been made available to those of us in the West and in an English language subtitle version.

I really enjoyed this—this is not gay. Or to be more clear, it is not obviously gay. But I thought this was a really interesting piece from Be On Cloud.

Ben

I did not watch this. I need you to tell me like, what is going on in Man Suang? Like, what's the drama here? [NiNi laughs] What is even the story they're telling?

NiNi

Oh, I get to summarize something. Okay, bear with me.

Man Suang is a story about Khem, played by Apo Nattawin. When Khem is a dancer and after he dances, he basically gets called back by these various men, women, it doesn't matter, to come to their rooms and perform sexually for them. At the beginning of the film, some assassin sneaks into where they are and kills the guy that he's with, who is a very important guy. He tries to save him and can't, and he's then caught and arrested because of course it's assumed that he is the one who tried to assassinate this guy. And so to save his own life, he agrees to go undercover at this very fancy club called Man Suang. He gets a job there as a dancer and he meets this Chinese-Thai guy called Chatra, who is played by Mile Phakphum. It eventually becomes known to him that he and Chatra are basically on the same side, spying at this club, so they form an alliance and a friendship and possibly something more. But whatever more is happening is sort of subsumed by his trauma.

Basically, it is a spy story. This feels about mid- to late-1800s in Old Siam. There's a lot of Chinese migration, that integral part of the story. Bas plays Khem’s friend, Wan, who is sent to Man Suang with him to join in the spy mission. Tong plays Hong, who is part of the family who owns Man Suang. They don't know whose side he's on. There's a lot of intrigue. There's a lot of drama, there's a lot of very familiar faces.

I don't know how to describe the movie other than to say it is intriguing. It is gorgeous. I am not entirely sure the story holds together all the way. My understanding as well, which, I don't know if this is correct, its that the version that we have gotten on Netflix is an edited version. It certainly feels that way. I feel like there are bits of the story that are missing that we are expected to fill in. But the acting is fantastic and particularly as we get down to the climax of the story, there is some phenomenal acting from Bas and Tong.

I have explained this terribly. When I edit this down it is going to be explained even more terribly. I wish that you had watched this so that you could explain it properly for our listeners. What I will say is that it's a gorgeous piece of cinema. It's beautiful to watch. Everybody is operating at a very high level in terms of the acting. It's a good film, it's not a great film.

Ben

I'll probably watch it at some point.

00:25:12 - Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You

NiNi

Our final catch up is, I finally watched DNA Says Love You! Ben, I'm gonna let you remind the listeners of what DNA Says Love You is about.

Ben

DNA Says Love You is about this group of friends who are, it feels like late college kids, who are trying to make their little ghost hunting YouTube channel function. The guy and his friend had this other friend when they were growing up, who ended up leaving and they've missed her for a long time. This new guy shows up mysteriously and seems to be connected to her. And you spend most of the show wondering what sort of mystery may be going on here. Is there something spooky going on? Is this a trans story? We're not entirely certain what's happening there.

When we finally get confirmation about what's going on, the reveals are really great and there's a really interesting execution of a… unexpected queer romance here. I'm gonna continue to talk around the reveals around Amber, because while I don't subscribe to spoiler culture, I do think the presumptions you bring to the table are part of the experience of this particular show, and I don't like revealing the full truth about Amber when I describe it to people who may not have seen it.

NiNi

Yeah, I think that's the right instinct. The first time we talked about the show, I remember you describing the show and thinking to myself. Okay, well, from that description I know what this is about. And then I go into the show and actually, no, I didn't know what it was about. I think that that experience is the right experience to have with this show. I think allowing the show to take you on the journey is the only way really to watch it? So I also will not be spoiling the show.

We're gonna continue to talk around what it is, but I do want to say, having watched it now, I am going to echo Ben's praise of Erek Lin, who plays Amber. I think that Erek Lin did an incredible job with this character. I enjoyed the story. I love that this is a story about friendship more than anything else, and about what it is to be a friend and what it means to carry somebody in your heart for a really long time.

I thoroughly enjoyed this. Is it perfect? No. There are a few things that I wish that the show had done—not differently, but probably given some more time and attention to. And then there's some side characters who I found fun and interesting, but I was a little confused about how they fit overall into the story.

Ben

I don't think the connective tissue with all of the romance bits going on was necessarily great in this. But I did appreciate the established gay couple sides who are dealing with a potential separation in their future. There's a whole thing of, like, growing pains and growing up in their story that I really connected to.

NiNi

Fair enough, but I wasn't entirely sure how they fit into the story thematically, or really, to be honest, narratively. They seemed to be sort of off to the side in their own little story. But yeah, overall, really good show. If I were in the business of recommending things, I absolutely would recommend it.

Ben

You have been recommending things with me for over two years now. Highly recommended, go watch it!

This show is about a queer experience that very rarely gets depicted in any kind of media. This is worth watching.

NiNi

Well said, sir. Well said.

00:29:23 - Twig’s Dispatch

Ben

We are going to introduce a new segment to the lagniappe of The Conversation, Twig’s Dispatch. We wanted to make sure we gave airtime to all of the shows that we choose either not to discuss on the show or we didn't think warranted a very long conversation.

NiNi

The point of the segment is for Twig to just do a round up of what's out there that we may not have seen, may not have wanted to watch, may not have been able to put effort into at the time to get a sense of the landscape and also for Twig to point out, hey, maybe you should watch this one.

Ben

So Twig, why don't you run us down your list of shows?

Twig

Dispatch! Hey-o!

So I've got 12 pieces of media that weren't on the list of stuff you've discussed in the season. My Universe it's on iQIYI, 12 two-part episodes that are only very lightly linked together. It felt like a series of school projects. There was a body swap, mistaken identity, in love with your sibling’s friend, destined lovers, enemies to lovers, love Triangle, a coach and an athlete, fake dating turns real, a twincest episode—it did walk a fine line, it made me very uncomfortable—age gap, paid companionship, and terminal illness. If you love one of those tropes, you can just watch that one miniseries associated with that trope, I guess.

There was a lot of not very well handled difficult subjects in these, so if you have any need for warnings, I would check for the warnings about the episodes you might wanna watch. If you're curious and wanna try one of them, my favorite one was Right Time, Right You, the destined lovers one, episodes five six. It's a little bit lighter than some of the other ones and has some of the better acting. There's also three or four different directors who, you can try out a bunch of different creators and see how you feel about them, which is kind of fun from a viewer perspective.

Night Dream is actually one of the ones that I like more. It's a second chance romance. I think it's on YouTube, childhood friends, Night and Dream. meet again after Dream had disappeared from Night's life for years and fall back into this sort of will they, won't they that comes from being closeted. This is one of the ones that I liked because it felt a little more queer and they did some interesting things with flashbacks, so we got a mid-series reveal that I thought was actually pretty well done. If you have time and you're open to a slightly more queer feeling story, it's worth giving a shot.

Going in with low expectations is a good idea, but it's not a terrible waste of your time.

NiNi

Bake Me?

Twig

The actual show was last season, but the special episode landed this season. My biggest complaint about this show was there wasn't enough baking. It was a really frustrating plot. Special episodes, you just have to have something to give people a chance to be with those characters again and see them be cute, really. Right? But they didn't take that route.

For Shin’s birthday Peach ignores him for days, so that Shin thinks that Peach is gonna leave him, so that he could surprise Shin on his birthday as like the worst birthday gift ever. I [laughs] was not into it. I don't love a big lie as a plot device for a relationship.

Ben

VIP Only?

Twig

My biggest note about this show was Liu Li coming into his own, being self assured and exercising his own agency and figuring himself out was actually great, but it came way too late. He was so much more interesting as a character when he actually took control of his life, but he was just so passive for so many episodes. What I love about it was he lets go of what he thought love was, that juvenile understanding of what love looks like, to realize what love really is. I thought that was a really cool arc and I was really sad that it wasn't treated better.

Love Senior the Series. Oh, I had such high hopes for this one, guys. It is essentially the lesbian version of SOTUS. It's a hazing ritual that happens with engineering. The first seven episodes were so great, we got lesbians who were thirsty for each other and they were actually more successful than their gay male counterparts in overturning the systems. We got a character who had casual sex, and it's fine. Yes, anti-purity culture! And then episode 8 happened and someone got drugged, there was slut shaming, there was a car accident, there was amnesia, and then noble idiocy—literally every one of my least favorite tropes. I guess they felt like they needed to have more for their characters to do, but I was, like, really enjoying them just being lesbians and horny for each other. Like, what was wrong with that?

Ben

Anyway, what is You and My Stars?

Twig

That was just a little micro series of two episodes by Mind Trio. They're like a little indie BL-producing YouTube channel that I like to follow. They did my favorite show that no one heard of, Calculating Love. It's not actually that good, but it makes me happy. [laughs]

This one is a little love triangle—I think it's like 25 minutes total—and it's one of the better ones on this list for sure. There's two friends, Hunter and Win. And Win likes this guy Time, but he finds out that Time likes Hunter and so Win tries to help Time to woo Hunter, but Hunter steps away and then we find out who Hunter likes. But I will not spoil it. It's cute. There's some star folding, hence the name.

After Sundown: essentially, they took the plot of Cutie Pie, but added ghosts, which sounds like it should be really fun. And so it was really disappointing how boring this movie was. [laughs] A poor kid comes to a large estate and is betrothed to a rich guy who's been cursed because his grandfather was gay. That's the summary. That should be really interesting! It was not. I was so bored.

NiNi

Twins the Series.

Twig

Of all the sports to get wrong in a gay series. How dare you? So these twins, Zee and Sprite, Zee plays volleyball, Sprite does judo. Zee gets beaten up by guys who were looking for his twin Sprite, so Sprite feels guilty and takes Zee’s place on the volleyball team to make sure that Zee can still qualify to compete for the national team later that year. He has to integrate with the team in order to hide the fact that he's not Zee, but he's first of all really bad at pretending to be his twin, and also it takes until I think it was, like, episode 8 before he actually got volleyball lessons from anyone? I was like, what are you doing? He's pretending to be one of the top athletes in a sport that he doesn't know how to play, and nobody notices for the entire series. I was aghast.

Sprite, the one pretending to be the volleyball player, falls for a teammate named First who hates Zee, the twin who he's pretending to be. The Big Lie went on for way too long. It doesn't get revealed till the very end. And First does not get to be angry about it for nearly long enough for my taste. The leads did have mad chemistry, and Ryan's waist is fantastic, so you know who, kudos to them for working with what they got.

Do we talk about For Him? What I kind of wanna say about For Him is: pay your actors, and we'll talk about your show. Give Tor Atagorn another show. That was my takeaway from that show.

NiNi

Happy Ending.

Twig

My favorite thing about this is all of the lore, because everybody went into it going, “Oh, it's Strongberry, it's going to be good” and then it wasn't. And then Strongberry came out and was like, “It wasn't really us, we distributed it.” I mean, the director said outright, “I wanted to make a sad short with an ambiguous ending.” and that's what we got, and I think now he's realizing that maybe wasn't the best goal.

NiNi

Bringing things forward that people may not have heard about, there is a BL that came out from Myanmar called Healing Thingyan.

Twig

This is a little YouTube miniseries. It takes place as friends celebrate the Thingyan Festival over a period of a few different years. It's short, it's cute, it's free, and it's the only show from Myanmar that I've seen where nobody died. So [laughs] already it's crossing over the bar into things that I'm happier to send support to.

One of the things that I feel like has to be said about anything coming out of Myanmar is the political situation. As long as it wasn't really bad, I was going to tell people to watch it because I wanna encourage views on shows where people are struggling against the political climate they're in in order to be able to show this kind of content. This show had to pass a censorship board to be made, so don't expect a kiss, but they're surprisingly cute for what they're allowed to make and in a country where the penalties are severe for making things that could be seen as encouraging quote unquote of queerness, I feel really strongly about sending views towards this thing.

Support local Burmese shows. Give it a shot. Give Myanmar some love.

NiNi

That's our first ever Twig’s dispatch. Thanks for being here with us, Twig.

Twig

Thanks for having me again.

00:38:35 - Winter Round Up

NiNi

Always a fun time having Twig on the show, new friend of the pod. I like that we're building up this stable of friends of the pod. I like hearing the voices of BL fandom on our show. It's great fun.

Ben

It's also like inviting friends over to your house, like it's different when you're just hanging out and doing stuff. But every time your friends come over, you have to clean up and shit. [Ben and NiNi laugh] There's a lot more extra effort on the front and back end now.

NiNi

Let's talk about the season as was. Ben, I know you have some complex, complicated, mixed moody kinds of thoughts about how this season went.

Ben

It's tough. The most obvious thing from our release schedule that stands out this season is this is, I think, the first time Japan has outnumbered Thailand in our number of shows we talked about—oh, wait, nevermind. They caught up because of Twig.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

In terms of long form discussion, we talk more about the Japanese this season. That is true.

Ben

This is the most we've talked about Japanese content on this podcast since we started, which is a real win for me because that's what I enjoy the most. But it's also a reflection of what's going on. Thailand is still out-producing everyone, but it's less about countries now and more about production teams and studios. We managed to have a really great conversation around Cherry Magic and Cooking Crush about what longevity looks like in BL. Now that there are more players actively engaged in the genre, it's not just us talking about 8 to 10 Thai BLs, the one or two Japanese shows that got released, the maybe Korean project that got released, the maybe Taiwanese project that got released. There's a whole lot more people playing in the space now.

My own life responsibilities have forced me to cut back on being present for every BL. The gap between a show I really am enjoying and engaged with and a show I'm not but I’m trying to stick with is a lot further than it's ever been, and I find it a lot harder to cross that gap. I'm relieved that we have more friends now because I can ask people what's going on. That's been the big shift for me. Being more cognizant of my own time and how I'm investing myself emotionally in the shows. I don't like showing up grumpy to productions. I don't really like being in a foul mood when I'm watching shows. I don't think that's fair to the shows and I don't think that's good for me emotionally either.

NiNi

This is generally where I've been overall, but that's just a function of my life right now. I've been so busy, even this season, I tried to watch as much as possible, but they are definitely things that just did not happen. And going forward they're going to be shows that I don't watch. Ben'll tell you my standard comment now when a new show comes up is, y'all tell me whether I need to watch this. There's some stuff that I'm definitely gonna be watching. That's not a quality bar, trust me, because there is some trash that I fully intend to watch [cough sound] cough We Are.

But [laughs] yeah, my thing is, as Shan said in the year in review, reclaiming my time a little bit. I don't have the time that I did have and the time that I am spending to do this stuff, I want it to be time that I enjoy. Watching stuff with my friends, talking about that stuff that I enjoyed or at least was bad in an interesting way with my friends, that's what I'm gonna be focused on, not on getting volume. So it's really now question of y'all tell me what I need to watch because you really wanna discuss it, and that's actually in a lot of ways working out really well for us, I think.

So, I'm good to keep that going. I also like us having more friends to have these discussions with now. Ben and I agreed from the beginning that if this stopped being fun, we're gonna stop doing it. We're definitely still having fun with this, but we're having fun in different ways now than we did when we started, and this show is always gonna evolve along those lines. Whatever is fun for us now is what we're gonna be doing. So you would have heard a couple of really fun segments this season.

One segment that we're not sure is going to keep going is the Catch Up Corner. Going forward, we don't know how much catch up there's gonna be in this show cause we just, we don't really have time to catch up on everything.

Ben

All I caught up on this season was two long ass Chinese dramas. [laughs]

NiNi

Ginny and Shan have gotten Ben into the cdrama space, which is a space, I'm sorry, they're too long. I can't do it. [laughs]

Ben

Nah nah, NiNi. All of these shows should be longer, 40 episodes, 58 episodes—

NiNi

Oh my God.

Ben

68 episodes!

NiNi

I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it.

Ben

Every single show should go on for half a year, multiple times a week. We should end in the middle of a sentence.

NiNi

[laughs] You're terrible. You're really, truly terrible.

Ben

In terms of catching up on BL, it isn't our style to show up super duper late to the fandom experience and talk over it. We don't wanna be those people. And so if we didn't engage with a show during the season, we probably won't have an extensive conversation about it. We're probably going to rely on the fact that we have friends now to highlight those shows if we didn't show up for them for whatever reason. So that we get a conversation around the time it released. But if something pops up, like, what happened recently for NiNi when we finally got her to watch something, we’ll try to bring it to you and give you some reactions.

00:44:45 - Girl, You Tried

NiNi

Girl, You Tried. Who are our contenders this season?

Ben

[funny voice] Oh my God. This is probably the most difficult Girl, You Tried we've ever had because things were either bad and it's like, “Oh, absolutely not.” And then there are things that are like, “What was she even doing?” So I think legit contenders for Girl, You Tried: Chaser Game W, The Sign?

NiNi

I think it's those two.

Ben

Yeah, I was gonna say, I wanna kind of put Sukidoya there, but that feels mean.

NiNi

No, I think Sukidoya was better than that.

Ben

Exactly. That's the constant problem this season. There are things that didn't necessarily land exactly but they didn't really fail, or there were things that were just like, “Oh, absolutely not. We're not giving you an award for that.” [Ben and NiNi laugh]

I think it's really Chaser Game W and The Sign.

NiNi

So between those two, if I had to pick.

Ben

You do. That's the bit!

NiNi

[laughs] I think The Sign tried harder than Chaser Game W. So for me it's The Sign.

What do you think?

Ben

It is The Sign because Saint really did try. There's a lot of effort that went into The Sign. While we have some real consternation with it as a piece of copaganda, and as a maybe too-watered-down adaptation of its source material and kind of confusing plot threads, I think there's a lot of real effort that went into that. I think the performances are really earnest. It's not a half-assed production in any way. While it doesn't land exactly for me, I think it is probably the best Girl, You Tried [laughs] show we have.

NiNi

Going back to the original intent of Girl, You Tried, it was really for something with a good concept, but problematic execution. I think The Sign fits into that. I think that they had the right ideas. I think that maybe they got in the weeds and did not know how to get back out.

So, dubious congratulations to IdolFactory!

Ben

I don't want you all to feel bad about Girl, You Tried. I think there's a lot of great stuff in your show. I think the efforts that went into CGI work are really noteworthy. There's technical gains there that are gonna be really beneficial for the Thai media landscape, even well beyond BL. I really thank them for introducing Babe Tanatat to us, because I really like him! [laughs]

NiNi

And will cosign on Gap Jakarin. I am a fan.

Ben

We got to see Yoshi again! I haven't seen Yoshi properly since, like, Love Sick.

NiNi

It is the Girl Who Tried.

00:47:35 - Look Ahead

NiNi

Let's look ahead to the future. Give me one thing you're looking forward to this season or something that you're watching now that you're looking forward to talkin’ about.

Ben

I'm really, really looking forward to talking about Love is Better the Second Time Around. We just finished episode four of six as of this recording and it's still going very strong. I'm excited to talk about Unknown. I'm only two episodes in and it is really intriguing. I'm having a good time with that one, I'm looking forward to discussing that. I am hoping that 23.5 is a really good discussion for us. I would really like to have a positive conversation about Thai GL. I really want Milk and Love’s show to be really good. I love them both a lot, and it's really important to me that the show go over really well.

NiNi

My disaster loser lesbian love Ongsa. I want to say so much about what Milk is bringing to this role, so I am also [Ben laughs] looking forward to talking about 23.5. One of the things that I like about it so far is that it does not feel like flipped BL. It feels like a GL. It feels very specific to a lesbian experience and I am excited by that.

I can't say I'm looking forward to, but I'm gonna watch We Are. I just am. Ben’s on my case already, I'm on Ben’s case already. We both have feelings about New Siwaj, opposite direction feelings. We're both gonna be watching this grumpily, but for different reasons.

Ben

I just don't really know what's gonna happen in this. It's gonna be 16 episodes of people vibing. We already went through this with the fuckin’ Star in My Mind Our Skyy episode.

NiNi

But you see the difference is that unlike things like Star in My Mind and Hidden Agenda, we are being told upfront that this show is about nothing.

Ben

Well, I'm glad you're looking forward to four months of nothing.

NiNi

We've already established that right now I'm in a very busy time of my life, so something I can watch mindlessly and enjoy the pretty, I will jump on. I mean, Phuwin’s here? Everybody loves Phuwin.

Ben

That's not how I'm built! [Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

For me this is really simple. Phuwin is here. We love Phuwin. I am looking forward to seeing what Winny and Satang give. I am very interested in seeing AouBoom. I grew to love Boom through the mess that was Hidden Agenda and I am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table here. There isn't much of a table but they are going to lay it as best as they can.

I am also looking forward to watching Unknown and Love is Better the Second Time Around. Looking forward to catching up with those once they're complete.

Ben

I'm excited for Living With Him. We've got an interesting one from Korea called Gray Shelter. We've got a meta one coming from Japan called At 25:00 in Akasaka, which is about two guys preparing to film a BL and complicated feelings coming in.

Up Poompat is going to be back with us again in My Stand In. He's gonna be playing across Poom. That one looks like it's gonna be messy as hell, and I think Up is well suited for that kind of messy.

There is another Korean one on the horizon called Boys Be Brave, and A Man Who Defies the World of BL 3 is supposed to release [laughs] sometime in April. I'm excited to see Inukai again. I'm excited to see Yutaro again. I'm excited to see Idegami Baku again. Very, very happy about this.

NiNi

I'm excited to catch up actually with Zettai BL. I have been meaning to watch that for years, so I might take advantage of this opportunity.

So that's what we're looking forward to coming up. Going forward, we're going to be switching things up a little bit in terms of our schedule of when things come out. We're still going to be seasonal, but probably on a more extended schedule, bring us a little bit closer to real time. So look out for announcements from us, but for now that's going to wrap us up on the lagniappe and going to wrap us up on the spring season.

We out! Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.