#malevolent discussion

[ceaselessims]

now that i am fully caught up on malevolent i have a few questions to ask the fandom at large before i start posting about the show in general bc i have a feeling there's a lot of discussion

Seeing as the show isn't finished yet i feel like there are some varying view points and things i should have in mind that i don't have yet so feel free to answer any of these questions please

Is there an explanation for the "rolling dice" sound effect that was very present in the early seasons of the show? Was it an intentional detail that was later discarded bc it became distracting or something else that is going to be important, etc?

Has the creator discussed the overall (from what i'm gathering, unintentional) queerness of the show, and if so to what extent?

Is season 5 the final season or is there more planned?

Does the tape recorder sound effect have an explanation yet or is it just for aesthetic?

Are there any details given outside of the text that i should be aware of? Like an explanation for a detail that is not explained by the show itself but is considered canon bc the creator has said so?

[vmprsm]

Arthur Lester is dealing with complicated grief.

Let's break that down.

(Long text post ahead!)

Your first reaction may be: well, duh! But hear me out, 'cause this is fascinating (and also my current study). It's a real term, used by grief therapists, defined, arguably, as "An abnormal grief response that is more intense than normal grief, yet different from clinical depression." It's basically when the normal process of mourning goes way too long, goes sideways, doesn't resolve appropriately. Arthur is a poster child for this grief and I find that to be really amazing writing.

Complicated grief is highly stigmatized, especially in more emotionally strict cultures (a factor of this grief, actually, and oh my gods he's a male in the 1930's, he's repressed by design), and is separated into different sections. For Arthur, I argue he is primarily dealing with 'chronic' (lasting longer than average), 'delayed' (normal grief reactions suppressed consciously), and also 'exaggerated' (heightened, potentially self-destructive reactions) grief, with a little 'masked' (unaware of abnormal behavior being due to loss) grief mixed in, for fun.

I'm going to say right out that grief is a complex beast and does not fit neatly into categories, but we try.

The thing is, grief takes a course. It's not exactly linear, but it has a known pattern. Researchers argue about how to name the steps, tasks, phases, whatever, but the general gist is: accept the loss, deal with it, move on.

So....Arthur got stuck right near the beginning. You can tell by how reluctant he is, how painful it is to even mention Faroe even years later, that he has not accepted the loss. It's not full-blown denial, he doesn't believe that his little girl is alive somewhere, but it's close. Every mention brings fresh grief because he's avoided it, this is one hallmark of chronic grief. But it's taken years to to get to this point, so it's also delayed. In delayed grief, you put it off until you can't, and when the dam finally breaks the grief feels fresh, or, in Arthur's case, even more intense (exaggerated) than it would if it were normal grief. A lot of complicated grief doesn't fit in nice little boxes, and Arthur is a terribly complex case.

Arthur masked his grief during the time he was desperately delaying it in the course of the story: with unusual behavior, physical and mental reactions that he didn't realize was grief (his dogged determination to save the baby, his mood swings at John, etc). The take-away: knowing is not the same as accepting, and you cannot continue with mourning if you don't accept that loss has occurred. You simply cannot.

He helps mercy kill an animal and calls her Faroe. He kills a man and flips out (displacement, anyone?). He has self-destructive impulses via a stunning lack of self-preservation. This man is heavily grieving and doesn't know how to do again, so it's coming out in any outlet it can.

His guilt is out of control, which can deeply stall the grief process, and that's partially because 1) it's mixed with shame, or guilt from outward sources, and 2) he's not reality-testing it. Reality testing is critical to managing guilt in loss. Is Arthur right in feeling some guilt? Yes, but also, the reality is more complicated than that, and he isn't allowing himself to see the multi-faceted truth of it. He has massive survivor's guilt as well, compounded from multiple prior deaths that he probably also did not mourn sufficiently for. The poem about the death of his parents was a very good and healthy step towards mourning that loss, but did he ever complete the process? Did he find a way to relocate his feelings about the deceased and make new, meaningful relationships? Given how easily he destroyed his friendship with James (part 31), I seriously doubt it. Peter was his lifeline, but one man does not a support system make. Arthur purposefully stayed alone to avoid processing his grief because of his guilt.

And compounding factors for the potential for complicated grief? He's got those in spades, let me make a quick list here: multiple prior losses, complex relations with the deceased, early parental loss, negative self-concept, socially negated loss, absence of support, nd that's all I can think of just off the bat. He's fucked.

Frankly, I don't know Harlan Guthrie's relationship with grief, but he's smacked into our hands a classic example of a person who DEEPLY needs grief therapy, who I argue will not resolve his grief on his own without more damage. By the nature of the story he is forced to confront the delayed aspects of his grief, and, expectedly, his reactions are more exaggerated. John has been helping, albeit ineptly and accidentally, with putting Arthur through the process. His nightmare shows that he does, on some level, want to grieve ('you can't help but watch the horror' dream-Larsen says), but his self-loathing makes it difficult to see his grief clearly, and there's really no one else to do it for him. I'm fascinated to see how he evolves as the story progresses, and how he continues in his journey of mourning, no matter how many turns and backtracks it takes.

[humming-fly]

sadly Arthur can't make friends with every cute woodland creature he comes across in the medieval countryside I can't believe the setting for season 5 has been out for over a month and I haven't seen a single monty python reference yet I guess I'll do it myself

in the spirit of choose-your-own-adventures here's an alternative timeline

[critter-wizard]

ep 43 had me tearing up in a fucking shopping centre ‼️‼️

b+w alt version that I truly couldn't decide if I liked it more . Also I included a lot of thoughts in the tags but they're somewhat incoherent<3

[the-magpie-archives]

The sad thing about great horror podcasts is that it's really hard to just sit down and enjoy an episode with a friend unless you're driving somewhere or something.

It takes a very specific kind of friendship to sit in a room together silently listening to some guy suffering.

[izel-scribbles]

marker sketch that i uh. got carried away with. lyrics from you are the apple by lady lamb. every jarthur shipper go listen to it right now (this is a direct order)

for that matter, here's my malevolent playlist

[arthurtaylorlester]

controversial i know but yes, malevolent is a queer story.

no, jarthur are not /r gay.

yes, malevolent is unintentionally queer.

no, this does not take away from the queerness actual queer people have found in it.

[shittymalevolentheadcanons]

Kayne has hyperextended joints and cracks like a glowstick but no one considers it to be wieird cuz he's an eldritch god (he likes to unsettle people with his hand tricks but Arthur can't see either way so it's no fun)

yknow what yeah I'll add that to my personal canon

I love the thought of kayne doing just unholy things with his hands hoping to get a rise out of John and Arthur but like.. Arthur can't see and john WAS an eldritch god so hes probably seen/done weirder. and kayne HATES that he gets no reaction

when he cracks like a glowstick does he get to glow? I think it'd be funny

[mr-tll]

the bad ending

[little-the-rat]

The horrors persist but so do I

Also the shitty bloody version

[ceaselessims]

i was told it's "near canon" that arthur is aromantic and while i am definitely team that he is on the aro-spectrum, something about his relationships with the men he deems important in his life holds incredibly close to a gay man who is only just realizing that kissing men could be a real option for him.

and i mean in a romantic way. like his bonds with Oscar, Noel/Charlie, and ESPECIALLY john (if you count john as a man) read incredibly romantic.

before all this, all he knew was that being married to bella felt wrong and he didn't know why, but right now he's so so quick to make connections with men and trust them with an ease that is unlike his relationship with her (as far as i know rn)

his aromanticness could manifest in a way where he just has no way of internally deciphering the difference between devotion to a friend and devotion to a romantic partner, but i am unsure.

[rabbit-heart4]

malevolent sketchbook page :333 i took some closeups out of habit and then remembered i dont have to do closeups for tumblr because it keeps the quality high on large images unlike instagram!!! I HATE instagram. anyway I finished part 23. I will never be the same.

[arthur-lesters-emotional-baggage]

What do you think is John's most human trait 🌝

Arthur. Absolutely Arthur.

I tried to think of a more nuanced answer but the rough definition of humanity was staring me in the face as well as Arthur's emotional turmoil.

(Also I'm so sorry I took so long to answer this. I wanted to have a little think over to answer this question, but then I forgot about it for a bit. oops.)

[critter-wizard]

Spoilers for Ep 43 of malevolent

(I wrote this when the episode initially came out, then found it sitting in my Google Drive and thought—maybe people will agree or enjoy my analysis?? so ermm yah)

I don't really write analysis much but something has been bothering me with how John is perceived and his struggles and maybe I'm just spelling out things I think John or the Witch misunderstands what they are arguing about by using the term “humanity”, Humanity is faceless and fickle as a species, they can be cruel and heartless as the witch describes, while the descriptor Humanity is baseless kindness and compassion.

Sometimes the affiliation with Lily being John's spark of humanity feels a bit gross and reductive, Maybe it's just Arthur's perception of that time as a man from the 1900s but her kindness was not a great big thing that changed John. She was a chatty nurse doing her job, it allowed John to feel seen. To not be alone. 

The way John murmurs “but then I'd be alone” reveals his true feelings towards this.

But what John craves is something he can never receive in his eldrich independence- something a god cannot fathom as they believe they are beyond it. 

Community, Community built on equal ground.

Sure John wants to be kinder, and he's found a situation where that feeling can grow and prosper. He wants what humanity can give him, but Lily doesn’t give John community. It gave him an initial connection and every time she’s brought up, (the pig Lily is ok I like her) I am honestly a little sick of it. We never hear Lily we don’t know anything about her, she’s a voiceless ideal of femininity that's supposedly inspired John so deeply. Maybe this speaks to his childish ideals at times being so new to the world and presumably never having a mother figure as a god but idk. I loved 43 it made me tear up but I just wish they could grow past the realisation that Lily is what inspired John. This episode is our only glimpse in what he could be without Arthur, and I wish John was allowed to be more.

[thecatspasta]

Kayne fascinates me sm oh my god. Anyways throwing out my analysis and also headcanons, some stolen from @mofsblog onto the floor to be perceived

Hes often bored and uses ppl as entertainment, with arthur being the current most interesting thing in his life. This makes him obsessed with arthur bc theres finally smth new and interesting and he needs to keep that intrigue going as long as possible, however he also doesnt care arthur or his life bc hes still replaceable. Hes another actor who can always have an understudy play his part

I want to know why hes the first to kill all the nyarlathoteps. Did the others try as well but only he was the one who came out on top? Or did he start it bc hes always seeing how far he can push the limits of what hes allowed to do

Hes immortal, hes seen everything. He wants smth new, so he will desperately seek it out. Other nyarlathoteps knew what and where the black stone is. Why doesnt he? Why could some of him be trusted with that info, but he could not?

Anyways the darkness in lovecrafts work is his sibling and Lilith is his daughter, also in lovecrafts work he prefers madness to violence (smth smth madness is prolonged + more interesting then one fun thing that ends too fast) and is very loyal to his dad despite disliking him. Idk man I need to go back to sleep, however. Guys. Kayne angst. This is what I am proposing

[kahtiihma]

A friendly reminder that Malevolent is not a queer horror podcast

It’s a horror podcast with no canon queer representation between the main characters. This has been confirmed and clarified multiple times over the last several years by the creator and at this time there’s no intention to change that fact. The story is wonderful and the characters well written and I’ll recommend it with every last breath I have to anyone who enjoys audio dramas but I will not call it queer when it is not queer. This creates a misconception that there’s meant to be explicit representation when there is not.  Yes, there’s a thriving fandom and yes, it’s fun to ship. But don’t misrepresent the show when there are many other wonderful things about it that are true. If someone is looking for canon queer representation in their audio dramas then there are many MANY other options!!