#looking at this post I'm a pretty good example of the community brainrot indeed

[jemichi90]

Thank you! I had a great time! ^^

Don't sell yourself short! From what I've seen in these responses alone, you are VERY good at noticing things and connecting them to existing ideas or exploring alternate possibilities. You've made several points that forced me to reconsider my theories to see if they still work with those ideas. And while that may not have changed my mind, it made my theories evolve and improve by adding more details to them. Something that I'm always excited about!

But yeah, this is literally me when it comes to Don't Starve! xD

Have you been in the fandom since the beginning? If not, well, let's just say that I've had some time to think about all this (ever since I got into the lore in 2013). Every update just adds more fuel to the fire with the little hints that can be found all over the place (although I wasn't active in the fandom for several years until I returned in 2022, so I had to do my own share of catching up then).

Still, I'm not claiming I'm necessarily right about any of this stuff. It's just the conclusion I've reached, and Klei could easily prove me wrong any day.

And no worries about not covering every point I made, or rambling about something else in your responses. I literally did just that myself in my previous response, and will probably do it again! Just say whatever you want to!

And if I misunderstand a point you made, feel free to correct me and elaborate further on the matter. I don't mind at all. ^^

It's a pity that my computer is a potato so I can't actually go to explore the caves myself in-game, so I have to rely on reading character quotes. But you are right, Maxwell is certainly unfamiliar with the Archives. The rest of the caves are familiar to him and he mentions some things he's done there previously. Obviously we have very little lore explaining the Archives as of yet (I hear that Klei is currently working on a big cave update, so perhaps we'll get some more this fall), but I wonder if these were the ”previous Ancients” - the generation from the Ancient Fuelweaver's time. Clearly they worshipped Alter, which didn't seem to be the case with the Ancients that we have some lore of. But I guess they could have just had different religions among them, and the moon worshippers lived separately from the ones that got consumed by the nightmare fuel.

That wouldn't explain why they are also gone if they didn't mess with the nightmare fuel though, which is why I suspect they already existed and died before that generation, leaving Alter as a forgotten deity. But all of that is a pure guess for now.

Oh yes, I remember those mirrors too! I remember wondering if Maxwell used the mirror in his apartment as an entrance to the Constant – or whatever world he was in when he was watching Charlie through the portrait. But while that may be true, mirrors have certainly gained a new meaning since then, and I will keep my eye on them in the updates to come as well.

Which also brings my mind back to another mystery I haven't solved as of yet, assuming there is a deeper reason for it; why did Maxwell scribble over all the faces of William in photos? Or if Maxwell didn't do that, then who did? Because the portrait he was using as a window normally had William on it, and his face wasn't scribbled over when he returned to his apartment. But a bit later it had been scribbled over just like the many photos we've seen of him... I doubt it's just a case of him hating who he used to be, but something more sinister... It gives me ideas, but nothing that has any evidence to support it...

I always wondered if Metheus IS Them, or at least a part of Them, since Metheus and Charlie seem to be a package deal now and there is certainly more of Them. Maybe that entire generation ”lost their heads” and ended up becoming corrupted and joining Them.

I do think that Metheus is a victim as well, rather than the origin of Them, so the dark mastermind that transformed all these poor, tortured souls into nightmare goop still remains a mystery... But the shape of the Crawling Horrors and Terrorbeaks does resemble that of the Ancients (as seen with the more corrupted statues). Someone pointed out that the monster meat even has a similar shape (take those implications as you will). Which leads me to believe that the shadow monsters are all remnants of that Ancient civilization, but they've completely lost their identities and memories and anything resembling sentience. Most of them, that is.

Speaking of the Ancients, I remembered noticing something curious from back when I was writing my fic. Looking at the statues revealed that the more corrupted ones seemed to be somewhat covered in hair (as well as nightmare fuel of course) – similar to what happens with rabbits or bunnymen with insanity, although obviously petrified in this case, which is a strange detail for a race that resembles insects or lobsters, but that's what I gathered from zooming in on the images. The corruption certainly causes some physical transformation / mutation to happen even before ”shedding their skins”...

It's funny and sort of cute how much Maxwell clearly loved his monsters and how proud he is for the ones he created. I wonder if he created the Ancient Guardian as well or if he was a being that already existed when he arrived. I think that most of the creatures on the surface were Maxwell's design, and the corruption mainly affects creatures underground (think of the monkeys for example). Rabbits are likely affected because they burrow underground. Which would explain why the Dragonfly is fine. The "nightmare cycles" only happen underground causing the creatures in the caves / ruins to corrupt and mutate. The cave entrances were probably sealed to keep it from spreading any further. Must have been some desperate times... And again, Maxwell had been in the caves, and he confirms that he was the one that closed the entrances...

I'm thinking of the rock lobsters too. Maxwell says he banished them there for a reason, and I really wish he'd elaborate on that. xD

Also, if Klei specified that Maxwell was the first human on the Throne, that certainly leaves the idea of the endless cycle open. Maxwell was likely the first human in that whole world! They have likely been dragging beings from other worlds / dimensions there for ever and ever... But that makes me wonder how did the Codex Umbra end up on Earth. But the key to that is more likely related to Wagstaff and his experiments, one way or another. I'll just leave it at that for now, since I know way more about Maxwell than him.

And yes, the cycle with the Gate is definitely letting Them escape – little piece at a time in the form of nightmare fuel and pure horror as you pointed out... It's very similar to what happened in the murals. Using the shadow magic allowed more and more of the entity to leak through until all the seals were broken and it started running wild and leaving devastation in its wake... I sincerely believe the Fuelweaver with those warnings of an impending disaster... >_<

And I see what you meant now, and it makes a lot of sense! If you've seen my post-Throne Maxwell art, you know that I tend to draw him with the darkened, clawed hands myself. I thought of it more as corruption followed by being directly linked to Them through the Throne attached to his arms and legs and probably getting nightmare fuel basically injected directly to his veins to keep him alive for an eternity while he's unable to leave his seat to do things like... well... eat. Powered by nightmares alone until that connection is severed... But his hands are indeed pale there. I always wondered if they got drawn black later because he covered them with gloves, but there is no conclusive evidence. Your theory is plausible though, and goes well together with that idea of the Ancient Fuelweaver being basically his future when more and more of his body gets replaced by shadow goop...

No matter what was happening or about to happen to Maxwell's body on the Throne, we certainly saw what it was doing to his mind pretty clearly. His projection that appears in the beginning of each chapter keeps getting more and more distorted and inhuman. Clearly Maxwell was forgetting how to human, and his grip on even his own appearance was slipping. He was just about to lose himself to Them...

Which is another thing I like to talk about, even when it's a very old theory, but it probably started all THIS (gestures at the entire post) for me, as I figured that the Adventure Mode Maxwells are either an extra detailed shadow puppet, or more likely, a projection of Maxwell's mental image of himself displayed in the dreams of the player character, because he only appeared when the character was lying down on the ground unconscious, and vanished as soon as they got up. In the epilogue you can see one next to the real Maxwell without being knocked out though (if you try to use the portal there), which is interesting. But that's likely possible because Maxwell himself is in the same room. Just a little bit of something to think about. xD

Yeah, the rose is such a huge red flag! Wendy was even following the trail of petals to the cave, and turned out they weren't from Abigail's flower, so we know which flower shedded those petals... >_<

And we'll definitely need to wait for a while for that update, since it should be the last one of the series of skilltree updates, and likely comes with massive lore! But I'll enjoy the ride no matter how long it takes. I've already been here for 10+ years, I can wait some more. ^^

I pretty much explained the thought I had for the rose. There were some additional possibilities in my mind, like maybe Charlie is vanishing, leaving only the shadow half haunting the night. But seeing that the rose had two flowers and both of them were nearly destroyed makes me think that whatever fate awaits Charlie, awaits both of them...

okay OP, in your recent art you mentioned that "you will explain if needed" and gave a detailed explanation of what might have happened (to Charlie and Maxwell).

I'd LOVE to hear more of your thoughts, and the "explanation" that you said you'd provide (⁠ﾉ⁠◕⁠ヮ⁠◕⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠*⁠.⁠✧

ps i really like your art.

Oh! Hello there! 👀

And yes indeed I did. Alright then, get ready for the brainrot. xD

For a long time I've thought that Charlie died and came back wrong, and in the recent updates there have been several things hinting at it.

Here is a list of the ones I can remember right now:

Maxwell says ”There's a story behind that...” when inspecting a touch stone.

After the recent update, the ”dark side” Winona can sense traces of Charlie on the touch stone, confirming it's related to her (the quotes vary).

In the Encore animated short, there is a brief flashback of Charlie with the Ancient Fuelweaver behind her, and then her Chess piece is seen falling and sinking inside a black square on the board - some heavy symbolism there, sparing us from the gory details, I guess...

In Charlie's stageplay, the doll that represents her breaks, but she's brought back to life by the Mirror (Them?) - alive but different, as she says.

And then there are things that fall more into the headcanon territory, until more evidence comes up that either proves or debunks those ideas entirely, but I'll explain those as well, since they heavily influece my art inspiration.

I subscribe to the idea that the two characters in the ancient murals represent Maxwell and Charlie themselves in their early years in the Constant (but depicted by the locals that were unfamiliar with human anatomy). Time moves differently in that world so it could have been thousands of years ago, but the two made contact with the locals and briefly improved their life through the use of Their magic – until it backfired and the entity that must have been sealed for a reason broke free. Assuming the character with the torch really is Charlie, she died protecting Maxwell from the consequences of his own mistakes. In the final mural image, only her cracked head can be seen.

Another headcanon I have comes from the fact that one of shadow Charlie's arms seems to be entirely made of shadows (curiously, there are also arm bones attached to the touch stone, although they could have belonged to a pigman too, like the heads), so I think that whatever happened to her basically shattered her to pieces, and some pieces may still be missing - like that arm. But details like this are only a headcanon for now.

This also falls in the time period between 1906 and 1910-ish, when apparently some crazy stuff happened that Klei hasn't showed us much about – yet (according to their own post some years ago). ^^

So based on all this, my idea is that Maxwell summoned the Fuelweaver (as seen in the murals), but he messed up big time and Charlie got caught in the crossfire trying to protect Maxwell. She died a gruesome death (that may have torn her to pieces even more brutally than in my drawing). Maxwell in his desperation made the touch stone in a hurry (which is why it looks so rough compared to all his other constructs), carried what was left of Charlie there, and made a deal with Them to bring Charlie back to life no matter the cost. And they did. They just didn't bring her back exactly like she used to be, and she would probably fall to pieces and die instantly if she was separated from the entity that she now shares the body with...

I think Maxwell had been able to move freely in the Constant (maybe even out of it, based on his disappearances earlier) until then, but deals like that come with a price, so he lost his freedom and became Their tool (sold his soul to save Charlie?). Or something like that anyway.

There are also the parallels between Charlie and Abigail with their connection to their special flowers, as highlighted in the newest animated video. Charlie just might be another ghost inside a flower herself, but thanks to Them, she got to keep her body, or at least a form that resembles her body.. But I prefer to think that her actual broken body is still a part of the deal, as messed up as that is. We already know that They can keep a body that should have died a long time ago alive for an eternity, thanks to Maxwell. When he was released from the Nightmare Throne and time caught up to him, he didn't just die, he turned to a skeleton that crumbled to dust in an instant..! That's some old corpse, but he'd been conscious all that time because They wouldn't let him die.

So yeah, these happy thoughts inspired that piece. I might draw more about that if I still feel like it later. :D