#look at that lolcalisation lolcalised work

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It's kinda funny how consistent it is that every time Rhea brings up Willy during an argument with Edelgard the latter just pretends she didn't hear that part of the speech and focuses entirely on some minor throwaway comment instead for her response lol

Remember how her lines, when you use her in NG+ against Supreme Leader are basically "Willy :'(" over and over?

I mean (and big thanks to @deathbirby for the lines!) :

Rhea engaging against Supreme Leader :"You bear such a resemblance to him.. It breaks my heart that I must defeat you."

Rhea rekting Supreme Leader : "Wilhelm. If only you were alive today."

I remember a blogger made a meme about Supreme Leader being pissed that Rhea always talks about Willy when she talks to her, and well, that's not completely wrong? lol

But yeah, more seriously, if Supreme Leader really thinks Rhea doesn't value human life at all - because she is a Nabatean (note how she adds "Child of the Goddess "女神の眷属" at the end of this sentence in the jp text, that Treehouse obliterated for ~reasons~) - it is actually very telling : the very same Supreme Leader, faced with Rhea expressing grief/ or thinking fondly about Willy, thus, valuing at least Willy's life (even if he is long dead), aka a human life, doesn't react at all.

But that's a very Supreme Leader thing, she will bulldoze through her path, even if you dangle evidence in front of her eyes that she operates on wrong/faulty premises, and never reconsiders or self-reflects. Rhea very obviously still cares about Willy? Well, Supreme Leader dgaf, Rhea is a Nabatean, and Nabateans don't value human life.

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Do we know about the jp reception of the treehouse lolcalisation?

I thought some people there thought Nopes was marketed and produced for """the western fandom""" because of Billy's treatment, and how apparently """the west""" dislikes avatars which impacted Billy's popularity.

Rhea being swapped by Rhage though... even if you don't look at the lines, the VA's direction can transpire from Leigh's dubs, especially in FEH lol

I hope this controversy will not end up with JP companies returning to the "JP exclusive" games like what happened for FE12, but given how FE16 did 50% of its sales in the US, it'd be a financial suicide so either they tighten their grip or return to different release dates, to make sure the localised version isn't full of lols (like Pat's direction) and western players have the same (as much as localising a game allows it!) experience as jp players - or they go with low cost solution to keep the worldwide release date : everything is released at the same time, but with compulsory dual audio for every release !

Granted, it doesn't change the main issue : FE16 is the first FE game to have dual audio after it was nuked from FE14 and FE15, idk if it was a reaction to FE14's lolcalisation, but if it was, Treehouse didn't give a fuck and still lolcalised to their heart's content and apparently it worked, because, again, 50% of the sales were realised in the US.

So even if Treehouse botchers and "disrespect" or "appropriates" FE16, this version still sold like hot cakes - is IS really going to cut its profit to "respect" the spirit of a game? Of course not!

Hell, even subsequent releases have to account for the "Treehouse version of FE16", (seen FE17's localised version who removes the "live in harmony regardless of the races" to swap it by "regardless of the background" because FE Treehouse tried its hardest to remove Supreme Leader's racism against Nabateans) - whereas the gacha game - who was released during the "no dual audio" era, basically endorses and sells - to the "global" market - Fire Emblem Treehouse, and, again, it still makes a lot of money.

So, even if I hate it, to me, it feels like IS knows what kind of bullshit happens with the lolcalisation, but accepts it because Treehouse sells.

Even if it means having, sort of, basically, a 4Kids version of Fodlan for """the West""" and an og!FE16 for the home market.

A redditer once told me Rhage was but a "valid interpretation" of Rhea, but while I think it can be, for a fan, I refuse to consider it for a localisation POV - aka the compulsory lens a fan has to look through to get a peak at a character/game/media.

Take Lolita, fans can think whatever they want after reading it, who's the hero from who's definitely not at all the hero - but if my french localisation (editor?edition?) localises Humbert as the hero and Lolita as obviously scheming and "forcing" Humbert to find her attractive... it's also an interpretation of the original source (albeit a shitty one), but why, as a french reader, must I suffer through this "interpretation" to get an access to the book, and not build my own interpretation, without the french localisation/edition steering me in their interpretation?

If I were to write an academic paper on Lolita, of course I'd read it english (or learn english to read the direct source), but as a random reader who just wants to enjoy something... I'm forced to read a story where Humbert is the protagonist and the hero of the story? Really???

"Revolutionnary imperialist slay qween fights against evil lizards overlord who controls the world and did y'know Church BaD" sold like hot cakes so it became its own thing and got its staying power - granted, it also benefits from FE16's general "but IdEaLs uwu" and the lack of commitment to anything to make sure Supreme alts sell in FEH - but I wonder, if FE16 had bombed, would IS still had to make sure the Treehouse version would still be referenced in Engage and Heroes, or Dimitri, even if the localised!FE17, would have been able to talk about "different races" and even if it wouldn't make sense for a Treehouse player ?

As I see it, IS is in a pinch :

If they keep a tighter grasp on the localisation, lolcalisers can argue saying the "our version made half of the sales of your best selling game, if you annoy us too much, we won't make your game sell here and say bye-bye to half of your sales" and that's something a company doesn't want.

If they let the lolcalisers run wild - the home market is very unhappy about it and we know JP companies can't completely shit on their home market (DBS showed it!) - so they accept to have "two versions" of the same game, and we return to the 2000s - with the added twist that in 2024, people know they're being fed the Treehouse version, and some of them aren't happy about this.

What could happen next ?

I guess the worst could be the 2000s policy Bamco (or Bandai and Namco didn't fusion yet?) had : release a global version that sells very well (TOS), but release another one shortly after, with QOL and more goodies/shinies for the home market (TOS again, the PS2 version was in every aspect, better than the GC one! tfw when the upgraded PS2 port was released in japan before the GC version in the EU T-T).

It really really really sucks and I would hate it if, for a worldwide release, the JP version had more stuff/access to DLC/ than the other releases - but it would make everyone happy?

Lolcalisers could still swap the message of the game by their own - like what they tried to do with FE16 as you noted - while giving more content to the game for the ones who play it, and not the lolcalised one, aka the jp market.

The outcry with Nopes imo - even if it's uncalled as I feel like Nopes is the Bad Ending game so it obviously has shitty ends even if, just like Tru Piss, the devs hide it by addind catchy OSTs and quirky quips here'n'there between the characters - was mostly fueled by the feeling JP players/fanbase got the feeling they were playing the Treehouse version of the game, which is, obviously, not their FE16.

Which is hilarious, in a way, because to them, FE Treehouse is the "Bad Ending" of FE16 - talk about changing the message of the game lol

2 thoughts:

Number one, Emblem Byleth is supposed to be a post-Houses Byleth and has the Sword of the Creator. It's not really confirming which route he is from, but if you think about it it can hint which the route the Emblem isn't from. In order for the Sword of the Creator to work, it needs it's Crest Stone however it's Crest Stone can't be inserted into the sword because it's in Byleth's chest. So for a post-war Byleth to be able to use the SotC, they'd still need that rock and said rock disappears in Flower. Their solo ending says he continues to wield his legendary sword, but that ending says Byleth loses his power due to an injury, an injury we don't see them taking. The Crest Stone just disappears, with the only explanation coming from the Japanese text that it has "shattered" aka you broke Sothis's heart. We also see Byleth use the Sword of Seiros in the Jeritza ending, pointing to Byleth's solo ending just being propaganda by the empire less people think Edelgard doesn't have the approval of the Goddess.

So if Emblem Byleth is meant to adhere to any form of canon, then he can't be from Flower.

And two, I know the localization controversy is a pretty complicated matter but from what I'm hearing, there's a lot of backlash in Japan over it. Otaku are calling for the localizers to lose their jobs, as they feel what they're doing is both disrespectful and appropriation. But the thing that was really sticking out with me is going back to when Hopes launched we had players in Asia accusing the game of being made to pander to the Western fanbase. In the past, I've seen some fans reverse-engineering the translation, and they appear to know the direction given for Rhea. While people argue that Fates shouldn't be used as a bad translation due to it's age, I can't help but wonder if over there they're using Houses as an example of localizers running wild. Because, let's say it, Treehouse didn't just change lines it tried to change the message of the game itself.

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Everytime I see your Pat lolcalization posts, I can't help but think if this is him overcompensating for voicing the character of n*zi germany in the first seasons of the hetalia anime.

I can't say and I'd rather not say anything about Pat's intent or own agenda or whatever -

But the interesting "lolcalisation changes" and direction give to VAs really seem to favour a certain reading of the events happening in FE16 and to this day, I still can't understand how that managed to be released without getting at least some flak.

Sure Fates' lolcalisation is a tough nut to beat and nothing comes quite close to what happened to Fates to FE16/Nopes, and yet I wish I am joking when I say nearly 80% of the lines involving Supreme Leader and/or Rhea/the CoS should be double checked, because "Dany expy bringing a revolution" has to fit in the story that is FE16, and that's talking about the washed down version of Dany some people have and not the one who uses violence for the greater good, until she starts to realise that the "greater good" is as solid as smoke and runs away from the - well-intentioned ! - mess she created.

Again, I don't think anything was malicious with the lolcalisation Fodlan got, is it just a case of misunderstanding the game and slapping archetypes and "trendy notions" to make this "strange" game sell like hotcakes in your home market?

Or is it another case of "think of the children Susan" where Susan sure as hell can't endorse a character presented as the heroine sprout disgusting things and advocate for imperialism 101 so the heroine is now rewritten?

Or is it the lolcalisation team - after looking at the jp script - try to make the general idea of "you must feel bad for this character" somehow work, because they thought no one would seriously want to walk with her and feel any sort of sad uwus for the "you have pointy ears, you cannot rule over humans" red emperor? So they modified the script and directed the VA accordingly ?

IDK, but I think if you've been long enough on this blog you know my stance on localisation and lolcalisation but this discrepency between the two versions (or at least two audios) really took me by surprise when the game was released in 2019 lol

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The idea that SS says the Church needs to be rehabilitated in Rhea's ending is entirely on the translation. The Japanese text says that "Meanwhile, Rhea, who survived, returned to her duties as archbishop after she recovered her strength, and she aligned herself with the unified kingdom, working to rebuild the church and help people suffering from war damage." And while I've mentioned Claude's endings with Flayn before regarding Wind, the endings mention that the new order/society of Fodlan is built by the heroes who saved Fodlan which would include the CoS.

Pat really hated Rhea it seems if he does that to her ending. Her rebuilding the CoS? That's not good, she needs to make them atone. But then again, he also tried to make it so that Edelgard had similar ideals to Claude when the game ultimately says otherwise.

Oh I know, I've read your posts about this lol

TBH, while Pat is to blame for the Pat'd script, the Church, as in Rhea's church, is always depicted as needing/being reformed : it wasn't in SS's ending proper, but in Rhea's own S Support where she blames herself for, well, everything that happened but also confesses she used her position as the Archbishop for her personal plan to see her mother again...

And yet, if we look at her actions - and the ones that can be tied to her "rez Sothis plan", bar maybe making Sitri a priest/nun, what did she meant by the "took advantage of my position of the Archbishop"/"used my position as the Archbishop" to see her mother again?

In this S-support, Rhea herself considers her CoS/her lead of the CoS might be to blame for Supreme Leader's war and gives "empty" criticisms to her actions : emtpy as in, well, the game doesn't bother telling/showing what were those "occasions" where Rhea explicitely used her position as the Archbishop to make her wish come true.

Maybe if we pull our hair a bit, we can say the "Billy sitting on the chair" ceremony? That was made to "bring back" Sothis and she asked Billy to do that as their boss and the Archbishop of the CoS?

In a nutshell, it's less "the church needs to be reformed" in SS, but more "Rhea acknowledges she did BaD things (which are?) and used the CoS through her position as the Archbishop to do so (receipt not found?)" so with Billy and in the epilogue, obviously she doesn't do those "BaD" things anymore and their work is miraculous.

As for Claude, while he does "fall in love" with Flayn who is working in the Church with her Father - and this ending obviously cannot be triggered if Claude ends with Billy - Claude's very own words in his Billy S-support, imo, cannot be ignored, while Billy will take Rhea's role as the one people will rely on, he wants Billy to create a Fodlan with "new values" that won't exclude people for being different... implying Fodlan had such values before the War, CoS included - when we know, even in FE16, that this is bullshit!

So while Claude can end up with Flayn despite her being a member of the Church, she's a member of the post-VW Church that is "reformed/different" from the old church, because in VW, the Church has "new values that don't exclude people for being different".

So back to the original post

Compare with Houses, who always removes Nabateans/Rhea of the picture (except in SS’s S support) and brings “reforms” to the CoS - because it needed some, even if we will never know what they are or why those reforms were needed.

SS's reforms are less "reforms" and more "Rhea reckons she did BaD things so will stop doing them now".

The icing on the cake takes the form of Seteth'n'Flayn's paired ending, let it be in the lolcalised or even in the OG (Googled though!) script :

While Flayn disappeared soon after the war, Seteth stayed at the monastery and worked to restore the authority of the Church of Seiros. Doing away with his old strictness, he adopted a tolerant stance toward all, and encouraged his followers to do the same. When he was satisfied that the message was received, he vanished from the monastery.

In the lolcalised version, Seteth adopts a tolerant stance toward all (which he didn't have before?? Source?) and asked his followers to do the same (which he never did before either???) and apparently, when he was satisfied because his message not to be, uh, asshats was received, he finally left the monastery.

Because obviously, under the old CoS, when he was leading investigations against the Western Church and called names by those same people because his creed and followers are "too tolerant", he, uh, wasn't "adopting a tolerant stance toward all and encouraging his followers to do the same".

In the JP version :

フレンは戦後まもなく姿を消したが、セテス はその後も大司教補佐として大修道院に留ま り、教団の権威回復に努めた。かつての厳格 さは鳴りを潜め、何事においても寛大な措置 を取るよう運営方針を転換。時代に即した教 義の改革を妥協なく推し進め、信徒に混乱の ないことを見届けてから大修道院を去った

Google'd it gives some :

Flayn disappeared shortly after the war, but Seteth remained at the abbey as an assistant archbishop and worked to restore the authority of the order. His former strictness has subsided, and he has changed his management policy to take more lenient measures in all matters. He uncompromisingly promoted doctrinal reform in line with the times, and after seeing that there was no confusion among the faithful, he left the abbey.

So, sure, there's no fuckery about "a tolerant stance" because the JP script is more coherent with, well, the general script, it's more like Seteth finally stopped being so strict and became a tidbit more lenient.

And yet...

What are those "doctrinal reforms in line with the times"???

How did he change the CoS' doctrine, sure, it was to be "in line with the times", but what was changed?

This ending basically tells us - something Seteth also says in Nopes' expedition lines or in his Tea time lines? - that he doesn't agree with the doctrine (whatever it is he doesn't agree with) and since Seteth is a playable character who can be supported, his PoV is obviously biased as in, for the player, Seteth is the kind guy so if he says the CoS' doctrine needs reformation, he won't reform it to put some "might makes right" rule, but obviously reform it for the better.

What is that "better doctrine"?

This ending can be obtained in all routes where Nabateans aren't hunted to make a world "for humanity", even in SS where Rhea'n'Billy work together to make Fodlan prosperous and miraculous so... in all routes, the Church is reformed.

Houses wise : the Church is always reformed/needs reformation/did BaD things we never saw -> which serves to make it more "shady" and pretend to have "earl grey", because if the Church always needs reformation, then Supreme Leader targeting it isn't completely unjustified and nonsensical, right?

But when Nopes drops FE16's framing a little bit and we see, maybe for 15 seconds, the CoS do stuff... well, even if Seteth mentions "not agreeing with all tenets", from what we see and hear about the CoS, his doubts don't have the same weight since, hey, we witness the "help other if they need it" tenets, "don't impose the CoS' values on people who aren't from Fodlan" tenet, "we will repay our debts" tenet, etc etc.

Is this the part of the doctrine Seteth disagrees with? This doctrine needs reformation?

Tl;Dr : Church BaD which is why Supreme Leader's war isn't completely nonsensical and why the self insert of this opus can rightfully become God and run the show better than anyone who was there before, but we will never show us what this "BaD" entail, we just are told about it.

In turn, this creates Earl Grey and the "morally grey masterpiece uwu" reputation this game has - Agarthans have no place in this Earl Grey masterpiece, that's why some people try to come up with reasons or justifications to explain why they aren't that worse than the faction the game uses a piñata despite showing us all the "not BaD" things they do.

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More artbook stuff !

This time, about the so-decried plot :

Hmm...

So in a way, if the plot looked like FE1/3, well it was part of the games that inspired the devs to make Unicorn Overlord the game it is!

Anyways, the "character leaves his situation/place to learn and reach a conclusion" is old as fuck, but it works damn well, and I'm reminded of Zestiria where you basically trigger the bad ending if you don't bother playing the game aka travelling around, discovering the plot and learning why the "bad guy" came to be the "bad guy".

Which really pleasantly surprised me with this UO, because even if the "normal ending" has more lines for the character who received the ring of the maiden, the end is still... well, not the best one (and Baltro is still around!) and Alain, acting on his feelings from the first map, aka wanting revenge for his mom... well, the normal ending proves the randos in Alain and Virginia's C rapport convo right lol

Sadly, the devs thought people wouldn't be attached to asshole characters, when they are the one that draw the most attention nowadays (save for Shinon back then, but imo that's because the lord of FE9 is a fan-favorite).

I wonder if the "hearing someone badmouth someone makes you feel depressed" is a mistranslation/GT fail of some "hearing someone badmouth your fave will make you depressed", because a certain fandom has been taking this to heart, and some devoted people who were upset that their fave was "badmouthed" resorted to shitty irl stuff... But maybe that's not it, and the devs legit thought that writing a character on your side that some people would hate would create a shitty atmosphere in the fandom?

(again, everything throws me back to a certain fandom and how certain fans of a certain character were harassed/bullied and/or mocked by fellow fans, and at that, VA themselves which is, uh, completely bonkers, fandom is a place to have fun, not to be harassed)

I liked the "even if they insult each other, I want it to be meaningful", both because I found a lolcalisation goof lol, but also because some trend to make characters swear for anything became tiresome (or maybe I became old).

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Supreme Leader stans watching Byleth's mother's literal heart literally breaking at the end of Tru Pis and being like "...I don't get the symbolism"

"They become HuMaN again!!!"

Because Citrus has never been a homonculi or a nabatean-lite, nope, she has always been a preexisting HuMaN and Rhea experimented on her without asking for her consent bcs she is EvIl and always lies!

Of course the game suffers from gallons of Hresvelg Tea, and Church BaD - so Jerry can't look like an asshole for running away and being afraid thus treating his kid like crap because they are biracial/have the same condition their mother had - so Citrus will never be developped upon bar being a love/friendly friend interest and having the traditional mother role "she died in childbirth for her kid!", so yeah, the "humanity yay!" doesn't feel as, say, wrong as, an AU where Ninian!Roy rejects his lizard heritage (and somehow loses his lizard powers/parts) and embraces being "fully human".

So while the symbolism of Billy losing Nirvana still works (even if, to some people, that's supposed to be a good thing?) the "erasing half of my identity that came from my mother" part is completely eluded, again, because FE Fodlan isn't interested in talking about humanity, or what being a "human" means.

Remember how even FE Engage was lolcalised to erase the mention of "people of different races living together" when someone talks to a Fodlan character, and instead having a roundabout "different backgrounds" ? FE Fodlan wants to avoid talking about "races" (like lizards and humans) as much as it can, because that's something that paints Supreme Leader in a negative light that cannot be uwu'd around (even if we all know devoted fans will try to uwu about it!).

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Do you think FE16 should've been 3 separate games for each house/region instead of 4 routes in one game?

No.

First bcs people would have rioted if each separate route had a white clouds portion lol

Second, and more importantly, because multiple routes games, imo, are all about unreliable narrators and seeing how the story develops if you pick one side over the other. FE16, completely missed it (iirc the devs thought people would only play one route ??) but for an exemple of how it worked well, just look at TS.

We have branching chapters, all working and following the same story, until the final maps.

IS managed to do it, slightly, back then with Fe8, Fomortiis/Lyon benefitting from the multiple povs, is Lyon a helpless victim, or tried to use Satan and was rekt'd ? Ditto for some other characters we see more in a route and are randoms in another, etc etc.

In Fodlan, what the Fandom's been doing since 2019 is to compare Intel from routes to get a "global" story, and it leads to discourse when a certain route or a certain character's pov is discussed, given how the rest of the game, aka the 3 other routes, seems to disagree about the things she pretends (and that's not even talking about the lolcalisation !).

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FantasyInvader reply on the Edelstans going full circle on “translation=making Edelgard look bad” is the first time I heard of Treehouse hating Rhea, but it honestly makes sense now that I think about it.

Oh,

TBH I ranted a few years ago about the localisation and the direction Cherami Leigh received to dub Rhea, and, uh, well...

I don't think she hates the character or anything, she just goes with the direction given, but man what a load of crap Pat told her lol - she made an interview where she says Pat told her Rhea has a hair-trigger temper (tfw she only loses her shit when you try to reenact the genocide she escaped when she was younger - but nah it's just a hair trigger temper) and how Rhea "just is", something we know is bullcrap because she's the same person who's insecure about "bothering" people if she eats with them, Rhea isn't the assured person she tries to pretend to be, but Pat dgaf.

Regardless of the meaning of the quotes, if you have time to spare of the feh wiki, just compare the delivery of lolcalised!Rhea and Inoue!Rhea (her Halloween alt is telling), they're like night and day - but in the game proper, we have the fe datamine website !

Short story : Lolcalised!Rhea isn't supposed to emote bar being AnGrY, monotone (that line where she worries about Aelfie's plans in the DLC could be swapped with her reading the notice of aspirin) or have 2 lines where she's relaxed (billy supports) - Jp!Rhea is allowed to be upset, to mourn, to be worried, cheerful etc etc.

I've already complained a lot about FE16's lolcalisation, cultural bias at play and wanting to soften a certain character, but to exaggerate only a little bit, I have the feeling Rhea was portrayed in the lolcalisation (and not localisation, the lol is very important) as the ultimate bogeyman of the "dictatorial evil leader of an organised religion who is also a zealot and does not tolerate dissent because she's religious" which has...

idk, but serious issues because again, if you are supposed to localise a product you cannot edit something red to be something violet and sparkly and if the shitstorm (that ultimately came from a misunderstanding!) about "creative localisation" is any indication, more and more people are fed up with lolcalisations altering the meaning, not of a word, but of a game to suit their own agendas.

Oh, and not specifically tied to Rhea but in a way it is because it adopts Supreme Leader's prop a ganda words :

A friend earlier noticed that the NoA official website - where you can buy the game (digital version) - adverstises Fodlan as a land controlled by the Church of Seiros. Oddly (lel) enough, this "controlled by the Church of Seiros" crap of a tidbit doesn't appear in the japanese website, and even in the european ones!

I don't believe we got another version compared to the Treehouse version - even if at times, the french script is closer to the japanese one and at times they come up with their own bullshit - but there is a point to be said that in a certain part of the world, the game was advertised in a way that kind of fit a certain's characters POV, something that doesn't exist in the rest of the world. And it's in that same "part of the world" that the person who directed the VA for the eng dub, well, worked and directed said VA.

So what, is it some great conspiracy or something else? lol no.

Did Treehouse told NoA "don't worry, I've got this game, I'll localise it just close your eyes and market it that's all" and they went bonkers? And for some reason whoever was in charge at the NoE branch didn't close their eyes (maybe half-closed) so we have a weird mix between the two? idk.

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Okay, this is probably my fault for getting too curious but I was surfing the Ron The Death Eater page and look at this nugget. "The Savior King, the Master Tactician and the Queen of Liberation: The author outright states she hates The Flame Emperor/Supreme Leader, and so in addition to ramping up the character's existing negative traits, new flaws are created wholecloth to further turn the audience against them. For example, Supreme Leader canonically never disregarded Dimitri as an out-and-out madman as done in this fic (I guess they have forgotten the King of Delusion line or they're outright admitting Tru piss is not canon), nor did the Emperor consider him naive, guileless, or stupid. The author also adds mundane racism to the Emperor's Fantastic Racism (at least they admit Supreme Leader is racist) by disparaging Claude for being mixed-race, a sentiment never once hinted at in canon." (So her suspecting Claude's origins after the Miklan fight doesn't count ig). I know it's tv tropes but this is just peak comedy. 🤡

I remember back then when people/teachers/lecturers said "don't go on the wiki you can never trust who edits the wiki" etc and I'm thinking this can be so applied to TV Tropes for fandom related things lol

(i mean, all FE16 related wikis are hit with the same issue !)

Some devoted fans have a lot of time on their hands (hand?) and we have this, and it's still one of the first fandom i've been in where all fan-content, even the one that's supposed to be neutral like the wikis and/or TV Tropes* (I said supposed ^^ ) are so heavily biased that you basically... have to take everything with a grain of salt.

That's why I'm so grateful to the person (persons?) who made the Fe datamine website, it's the script, just the script (and audio) and you can use it to write/build whatever you want, but it's the most objective source out there to talk/discuss/build FE16 related works.

Now as for that fic, I didn't read it and I don't intend to, but there's still something funny thinking that little by little more and more people on the fandom will find canon!Supreme Leader a "Ron the Death Eater" version of fanon!Supreme Leader as the game grows older and less and less people will remember what they played - if they even played FE16!

*Add Serenes to the list, as a honorary member because of the horrid NoA lolcalisation/advertisment for the game, that already sets a tone that is, just, not present in the JP version or all the EU ones (Fodlan is a land controlled by the CoS!)

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I believe Yuri got a pass because he made a deal with Rhea to spy on Aelfric in exchange for his life. He told everyone his life was spared because Aelfric stepped in, but as we all know, it’s later revealed Yuri was a spy for Rhea the entire time. So that must mean she probably got suspicious when one of her trusted cardinals was suddenly like, “We must consider the circumstances of this one student in particular who protected a bunch of thieves and killed off our knights” instead of just allowing her to pass judgment on a seemingly clear-cut case.

Oh, and as an addition to the “Yuri got a pass” thing, he refers to a deal here!

Yuri, a random nobody (well a student) was trusted by Rhea (who never trusts anyone) to spy on someone she saw as her own child (Aelfie), after Yuri killed Rhea's soldiers?

IDK how it happened, but maybe Rhea had doubts about Aelfie since the beginning, then when the "incident" happened and suddenly he tried to vouch for Yuri, she must have grown even more suspicious. Did Rhea also discover Aelfie arranged the "incident" that led Yuri to the Abyss? I'd have wanted to know more about it (maybe seteth knew something too?) but the game didn't pursue more.

Apparently, Yuri had been working "since the beginning" with Rhea, so their partnership predated Aelfie's.

OTOH, thanks anon, I never thought to look at this chapter's OG script, but damn if somethings are really different from the lolcalised one.

First of all, Umbral Beast is a tidied up name, just like Immaculate One. They follow the same naming conventions, the IO in jp is the "white thing", while the Umbral Beast is the "red beast"

Also...

Edit :

Also - I'm sorry anon, but this will remain unfinished !

To this day I still don't really have a grasp on what happened, was Aelfie the one who said Yuri must be forgiven and thrown in the Abyss, and Rhea found it sus so she made a deal with Yuri - or Rhea herself found the situation shady and made a deal with him without even needing Aelfie to conveniently ask to send him to the Abyss?

Idk - the timeline is kind of wonky

[randomnameless]

FYI Brave Byleth is from the timeskip, the descriptions says former professor and in her FB she says that she would have remained as a teacher if not of the war, to me these points out more being five years later than the academy arc, also, I already saw edelstans loving the lolcalisation of the StATus QUo.

Grouping those two asks!

Yep, it's sad how lolcalisation basically is considered/taken as a valid source to build meta, because...

Well, IDK where they keep those copium stashes, but I'm sure an overdose of copium is bad for your health!

As I see it, to some devoted fans, the order of "who understands the most a character" is

3. The people who developed the game

2. The lolcalisation team, because, in the wise words of this youtuber, sometimes a localised thing is better and a better fit than the original.

The one and only author of the Aeneid, who, per one his critics, understands the characters better than the developers themselves, the BNF amongst all fans, Cap!

I remember studying old texts and all, and a teacher said that if you really want to discuss the meaning of the text and what it says, you cannot just read a translated version, you need to learn to understand the concepts used by the author without relying on translation, and, ultimately, learn "dead languages".

Hopefully fandom is just a nice place to hang out without any academic pressure or anything like this, but this advice still holds.

FE TreeHouse is the "translated" product, discussing the game means trying to find of TreeHouse didn't alter the meaning of something, and if it did, to ditch this "altered meaning" asap to focus on the source material, even if it takes months to understand what is Nirvana, Avici and the "Mandate of Heaven" concept.

Adding salt to the injury, TreeHouse seems to have altered the script to make Supreme Leader look better, thus they were following an agenda and not, just, trying to bring a script to a specific audience, so between heavily biased works and the source material, using the source material to build your analysis is a no brainer.

but what do i know, i don't have any degree :(

[randomnameless]

Serious thoughts on Wilhelm, was he a friend of the lettuce fam or a power hungry human?

Pff what's wrong with fodlan nonsense

Rhea is biaised when it comes to talk about the human she blood-bonded with - but even Flayn, when she talks to Seteth, mentions how he and her mother used to spend time and fight with their "friends", so to the nabateans (at least to them), Wilhelm and the Adrestians they blood bonded with were friends.

The Lolcalisation lolcalised a lot, but while the "in 32 he set out to unify the continent" is unchanged, in the lolcalised version there is the "he crushed anyone who dared to seek more power" when in the og one it's just "he crushed the houses who wants power".

There's no "dare" or "more" - maybe it's a useless lolcalised thing, if people want power it’s obvious they want “more” power than what they already have... So the meaning more or less is the same.

Or not. The “dare” part?

I wrote about it earlier, but given how the localisation added more flair to what was supposed to be a boring text I wonder why they added this. To play in the NoA!Seiros agenda, her allies are as bloodthirsty/knight templars as she is?

Wilhelm went to unify the continent - meaning Nemesis was called King but had no political “kingdom”?

The loser modeled his crown after Rhea’s horns - is it like that post I rb’d, the Elites, who knew what were those beasts, wonder why this guy adopts one as his sigil? Is he opposing them? By wearing this and siding with Seiros, who wants them dead, and the Immaculate One, is he declaring war on the Elites ?

Did Wilhelm set out to “unify” Fodlan to kick Nemesis, or because he wanted to rule over the land, or because he wanted to protect the remaining dragons thus thought that anyone who might know how relics are made should be disposed of?

We don’t know.

What we know is Wilhelm died before the War of Heroes ended. We know Wilhelm knew what Seiros was, and did not turn on her to get a shiny bone club, he “saved and supported” her.

He set out to unify Fodlan and opposed Nemesis, to the point where “he gave his all” to the cause of defeating him.

Now, was he really on the Nabatean’s side or using them to get a country?

While I reckon it would have been nice to have a schemer who used the dragon’s plight to advance his pawns and become super king...

I don’t think it would thematically make sense.

I called FE16 earlier the game where Eliwood/Chrom’s descendants start a war against Naga.

We’re in a series where coexistence between species is always sought after - Rhea/Seiros would have been right to have trusted that human, and humans in general, after Zanado to get justice for her family members, just like she was right to spare the children of the Elites, because they are not their parents.

And this is why CF should be a gut punch, or the most adequate punch - The descendant of Adrah turns against dragons? Oh, colour me surprised, the dragons never trusted him and he in turn brought shit to the world.

The descendant of Anri, who was bestowed Falchion by Naga thus has the dragons’s approval, turns against them? Well, this is more complicated.

If Wilhelm had been a person who planned on using the dragons to reach his goals - then the morale of the story would be “Rhea should never have trusted him with her power and secrets”. Humans and Nabateans were never supposed to interact, or at least to trust each other. So when Edel comes with Aymr, it is normal, as in, she should never have done this and look, here is the consequence.

If Wilhelm had been a genuine good person who sided with dragons because he wanted to help them, and to get rid of Nemesis (with a bonus country?) - then Rhea would have been “right” to trust him with her powers and secret, the man never betrayed her. When Edel comes with Aymr, it is a tragedy, but a foreseeable one, “children aren’t their parents”, so while Dimitri isn’t Blaiddyd, Edel isn’t Wilhelm.

CF (because it’s only here where coexistence is outwardly rejected) is an anomaly in the series, because the one who wants to end this status quo... wins. Zephiel loses, but Edel wins.

Should Rhea have trusted Wilhelm? Yes, he had been on their side and advocated for harmony between humans and dragons. Should Rhea have trusted Edel? No, she had never been on her side, and advocated for strict separation between humans and dragons.

Or Maybe Wilhelm had been both, a friend to the dragons but also a human who wanted his own country - but why did he want his own country? To build a place where everyone can smile, like L!Billy? Or because he wanted to be King and not to share power with anybody, save maybe for Seiros?

Oh, and I nearly forgot - Wilhelm was a Holy Knight.

I meme a lot about it, and while HK isn’t a bishop on a horse but a more offensive unit - there’s still the WTF. Hartmut was a hero. Roland was a Paladin. Why Wilhelm was a Holy Knight? Is it a nod to Sigurd’s title? A nod the the healing hands of the King/Emperor? Or just, holy Knight because Seiros is a Saint, so they “sort of” match?

Why the dude used white magic instead of having a more mundane, and more badass, class like Paladin, or Hero?

I vote on “genuine loser who wanted to help” or friend of the Nabateans, to oppose Nemesis and more importantly, his own descendant. Rhea knows children aren’t their parents, but when it comes to the Hresvelgs, she made a fatal mistake and thought they would all be on her side, or at least never work with the people who sought to erase her kin in the past.

Welp ? Ultimately idk