#lol victorian lady louis

[weareonejazzhand]

fitf

Louis singing Holding On To Heartache on stage in Los Angeles, CA - 30/6

[jawnkeets]

hi :-) do you happen to have recs for any british authors/poets that are a little more.. obscure, i guess? i'm not a native speaker of english but studying it at university, and i would like to branch out a little in my reading - i feel like we only talk about the same people in my seminars, eg. milton, austen, dickens, shakespeare, pope, some of the romantics etc., and i would like to read sth that's a little.... idk how to say it, i love these authors but i'd like to find sth different? thx 🌹

hi!! so i’m not sure what is and isn’t well-known outside of the uk (some of these are still pretty well-known within the uk), but i’ll dump a load and hopefully a few will be new to you :+) let’s do it in periods.

if you’re feeling adventurous and want to go medieval/ pre-shakespeare, i recommend (in translation) the elegies and riddles of the exeter book, ‘the wanderer’ (one of said elegies), ‘the dream of the rood’, ‘the phoenix’, ‘the whale’ (these are old english), mandeville’s book of marvels and travels, julian of norwich’s revelations of divine love (middle english), the poetry of william dunbar (a scottish makar active late 15th/ early 16th century), especially ‘the goldyn targe’. also if you’d like to venture into chaucer (not obscure obviously but equally lots of syllabuses don’t stretch this far back), his dream visions r my fav and a great place to start.

if you like shakespeare and want stuff from a similar-ish period that’s still quite different to shakespeare, try andrew marvell and george herbert. they have a couple of v v famous poems that come up again and again in uk secondary school syllabuses (’love (iii)’ for herbert, ‘to his coy mistress’ for marvell), but they are consistently excellent poets.*

if you’re a pope fan, try john gay, especially trivia, and lady mary wortley montagu. swift is my favourite writer from this period, but gulliver’s travels is massive, so he’s not a very out-there recommendation.

if you’re a fan of the romantics, try john clare – he’s a lesser-known late romantic poet who i absolutely adore. this is a fabulous poem. charlotte smith is a female romantic poet (there were female romantic poets…?) who wrote this lovely nightingale poem, which is of course a popular romantic subject. also i know mary shelley’s v famous, but if you haven’t read the last man, it’s about a plague slowly wiping out all of mankind… interesting too is what comes in between pope and co. and the romantics: william collins (try ‘ode on the poetical character’), oliver goldsmith (’the deserted village’), thomas gray (’elegy written in a country churchyard’ is pretty famous, but i like ‘ode on a distant prospect of eton college’, too).

into victorian: i’m super into victorian horror and spookiness so this is pretty weighted towards that, my apologies. richard marsh’s the beetle outsold dracula at the time, but has since faded into obscurity. it’s got some serious issues but i have a soft spot for it. arthur machen is a welsh writer who wrote this AMAZING story called the great god pan, which i think has been SO unfairly neglected. well-known authors like robert louis stevenson and george eliot wrote lesser-known stuff that is great and that i rly hope ppl will give some love to (the body snatchers and the lifted veil respectively).

moving into modern and beyond, i struggle to keep it british as i tend to prefer american modernism, postmodernism etc. but try samuel beckett (huge but good), philip larkin, and, if you’re looking for a challenge, j. h. prynne (the white stones). edit: i forgot jez butterworth’s jerusalem - big mistake.

i also have a poetry recommendations list! most of the lesser-known english-speaking poets on it are american, though, rather than british. but a lot of the poets i’ve mentioned above are on there, if you’re looking for a place to start with their poetry 😊 hope this helps, and happy reading!

- - - - 

*gap here bc there rly isn’t much like paradise lost lol it’s smth else

[comicteaparty]

February 7th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on February 7th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PST.  The chat focused on MK’s The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde by Marika Kapogeorgakis (or MK_Wizard).

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing MK’s The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde by Marika Kapogeorgakis (or MK_Wizard)~! (http://mksjekyllandhyde.thecomicseries.com/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

Archangel

I'd have to say the first real heart-to-heart that Hyde had with Lucy.

MK_Wizard

For me (the writer), my favourite scene was when Jekyll finally stood up for his niece Emily.

khkddn

that was one of my favorites too

MK_Wizard

PS, thanks to everyone who came. You all rock!

khkddn

it was so sad when he didn't stand up for her at first

MK_Wizard

@lomcia (princess_lom) Please don't do that.

lomcia (princess_lom)

so you want me to discrabe which one i like?

MK_Wizard

Yes please.

RebelVampire

for the record images, whether emotes or w/e, dont get archived anyway. so text and links are always better

lomcia (princess_lom)

So. I like when he said that he won't have glasses on his face. World NEVER ihere is making me laugh

MK_Wizard

Yes, but... I don't feel comfortable when people take "snaps" of my pictures and show them elsewhere. It's something I was taught not to do to others.

If you must share, please share through a link.

lomcia (princess_lom)

Act 2 page 21 when they look into a mirror xD he look so happy in first panel and then when he realised that its not him xD i love it

MK_Wizard

That was fun for me to do that part.

lomcia (princess_lom)

Act 3 page 7! When he sees our lovely Lucy

that first panel!

Archangel

I must admit to having a bit of a crush on Lucy myself.

lomcia (princess_lom)

It was perfect

MK_Wizard

I have to admit that Lucy is one of the characters I proudest of. I worked very hard on her to not only make her progressive, but also deep. I wanted to give her a reason for being as she is.

Archangel

More historically plausible in our world than you may realize, too

lomcia (princess_lom)

I prefer as a female Hyde

Archangel

lol

Actually, have we seen any lady trolls?

Can't recall

MK_Wizard

Not yet.

lomcia (princess_lom)

not yet so there will be xD

MK_Wizard

Maybe, maybe not.

lomcia (princess_lom)

I hope Albert Ode will find nice woman

RebelVampire

for me, my favorite scene is probably the one where jekyll is in the mirror having given hyde full control and resigning himself to be gone forever. and then hyde comes back and tells him nah dude well work this out. i really just loved the subtle build-up looks where hyde is looking at things like the letter jekyll was leaving and such. it was also very touching and really showed hyde's heart through all the huffing and puffing

lomcia (princess_lom)

I like him i hope he never change

Rebel that was so sad scene , so emotional!

I really enjoy as I said Albert Ode, I hope to see him more offten, hes charming

Archangel

I think somebody has her own crush.

lomcia (princess_lom)

yeah, on all trolls Albert and Hyde

MK_Wizard

I felt is was high time the world got a version of Hyde who was good and still "Hyde" enough. In every adaptation I've seen, Hyde is always bad. And the very concept Robert Louis Stevenson had on good and evil was deep at the time, but now, we know that it's not true. What I did was bold and maybe "wrong" to some people, but it's the truth.

Archangel

I like how both Doc and Hyde have a plausible and sensible mix of good and bad personal qualities. Their interplay is more akin to 'The Odd Couple" than the usual metaphors of id vs superego or drug addiction that I see in other adaptations of the story.

MK_Wizard

Ha! Well, I like to think that by troll standards, Hyde doe faced.

I did that purpose too. If we did what was expected and made Jekyll completely submit to Hyde, that would be expected and dull.

No offence to webcomic writers who take that route.

Archangel

Well, tropes can either be used to a good purpose, subverted to a good purpose, or just blindly followed.

khkddn

Robert Louis Stevenson's take wasn't true?

MK_Wizard

If anything, I can tell you all this: between the two of them, Hyde is more dependent on Jekyll than Jekyll is on Hyde.

lomcia (princess_lom)

MK I really enjoy your story, and I would love to chat more but my eyes don't listen to me :< I wish you all the best, meaby when I'll wake up I will answer for questions which people left as a feedback for you

MK_Wizard

It was true for the psychological view of human nature at the time. So he was just as right as everyone else. But now, we have come a long way with psychology.

So yes and no @khkddn

Thanks @lomcia (princess_lom)

Archangel

It's been a long time since I read the original, but I seem to recall interpreting Jeckyl as the superego and Hyde as the id

Which could be considered good and evil, respectively, in a Victorian mind? Maybe? Not really my period of history, so I don't feel comfortable being definite.

khkddn

I interpreted it as subverting what people of the time thought the "professional gentlemanly man" was supposed to be

Archangel

Hmm. I see that.

MK_Wizard

It could be interpreted many ways. That's the beauty of the original tale.

khkddn

the victorian professional gentleman was supposed to be all good and proper, but here we have this guy turning into an evil man at night

but that's pretty far removed from mk's version

MK_Wizard

Jekyll and Hyde had a lot of complex themes when it came to duality don't forget such as having dark secrets one would be very ashamed of for the Victorian age especially.

khkddn

it's a happier story for one thing. i like how your writing isn't mean-spirited mk.

like there are mean people who do terrible things, but it's never framed as a funny thing or as just something that happens in life that we can't change

RebelVampire

yes i agree, i like this is a more upbeat version. not to say sad things dont happen, but i dont get the impression that its trying to be dark and edgy just to be dark and edgy. sad things happen right when they should

MK_Wizard

I'm not into meanness. I find at one point in the media, being mean got passed off as cool. I don't like that.

mathtans

Little one is asleep in crib (again). ^^ Happening place tonight! I got as far as end of Act 5.

RebelVampire

hi math~!

MK_Wizard

Hello!

mathtans

Fave bit of what I've read was probably at the ball, when we get the extra whammy of who Emma was with. I hadn't expected that. Then when Jekyll is trying to shrug it off, Emily interjects, that was awesome. I really like Emily.

MK_Wizard

Nice to see an Emily fan. I feared people overlooked her.

Archangel

She's a keeper, for sure

I had actually forgotten about her since we haven't seen her in a while. If it's any consolation, I do that to real people too.

RebelVampire

oh really? i 100% expected emma to be with him cause the world was really intent on kicking jekyll down. what i did enjoy was her trying to put all the blame on jekyll tho. cause that is something real ppl do when they get caught as such.

mathtans

Emily is the kick in the pants that Jekyll needs sometimes. I also like Lucy for similar reasons, actually (standing up for herself, whereas with Emily it's for her uncle).

MK_Wizard

@RebelVampire Definitely. I see it happen all to often with cheaters.

mathtans

Rebel: I guess I hadn't anticipated that plot point to still be dangling. Really felt bad for Jekyll at the start on account of kicking him when he was down though, like ouch. Also, agree, it was true to form.

Archangel

The hardest thing to blame is one's self, after all

RebelVampire

i appreciated that emily didnt forgive jekyll for the tennis thing and for not standing up for her. cause that was a point where i was glad she was gonna stop being an enabler of jekyll's flaws in a more slap in the face wake up call kind of way

mathtans

Like, talking could still be a thing. I know that sometimes people avoid, but when you're proposed to, I think that's the time to talk.

MK_Wizard

In Emily's defence, what Jekyll did was cowardly and hurtful.

Archangel

Def

mathtans

Rebel: Yeah, I'm kind of in the middle of that now, but that hurt. Since she was always standing up for him.

MK_Wizard

And don't forget. Emily's a teenager. She will have teen moments.

Archangel

He did correct his mistake and learn from it. Credit where it's due.

mathtans

Oooh, spoilers. (j/k)

Archangel

Oh right, sorry

hehe

mathtans

Heh, it's cool, talk about all the stuff. I do this every week, and never manage to clear the archive half the time.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. Two major themes of the comic are what it means to be a better person in the face of personal flaws and how one might learn to be better. Insofar, what has been your favorite moment of growth for any of the characters showcased in the comic? What about this moment struck you as particularly strong? In the larger picture, do you think Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde really will continue to help each other to grow? Further, in what ways do you think the two characters can grow further as people? Alternatively, might the two reach a limit where they are no longer able to help each other in this manner? What flaws might both still continue to deal with long term? Overall, how do you think these changes will affect how both characters deal with life, and what can we personally learn from it as readers?

MK_Wizard

I'm afraid there's no way I can answer this without giving things away

Archangel

Good God, where to start. Give me a minute.

mathtans

It's kind of interesting, because Hyde never even had a memory before the transformation. So in some sense, he's a blank slate, and thus everything is growth.

In the beginning, Hyde was doing it for himself, but he inadvertantly helped people. Some part of him must have liked that, because now he does it to help and fight against the system.

Archangel

Okay, so obviously each of our protagonists has a massive, salient character flaw that comes out fairly early on. Jeckyl is too afraid of confrontation, and would rather get shafted than make a scene. Meanwhile Hyde, as @mathtans noted, is very self-centered--in rather a childish way, which makes sense in the context that Mat noted.

Each is well-placed to advise the other and point out that he's being a tool and why.

And -- very importantly -- they can't ignore each other

While each man is far from perfect, we're already seeing them improve in the face of the other's prodding, and finding themselves happier for it

mathtans

They have much to "reflect" on.

Archangel

/facedesk

Bravo, sir

Now I have to wipe soda off my monitor

MK_Wizard

I don't deny that there are tons of metaphors and symbolism in my story.

khkddn

there were earlier times when jekyll became more of a courageous person but i liked in act 8 when lanyon showed up at his door pretending to be friendly and jekyll is not having ANY of it

RebelVampire

be careful with that soda cause math is here to be the pun master

Archangel

Noted

Anyway, to @khkddn 's point, I wonder if it's because it was just the two of them? Maybe J's problem is more social anxiety? Interesting thought.

RebelVampire

yeah seeing jekyll just being like nope was a really satisfying in that moment. like seeing your little boy suddenly grow up.

MK_Wizard

It's a lot of things and it's complex which will be explained more and more as the story goes on.

RebelVampire

my favorite moment of growth is actually when hyde apologizes to lucy. because apologies are legit one of the hardest things to do i think for ppl. because thats a lot of stabbing for the personal ego, and the more prideful, the harder it is. so heres hyde, probably one of the most prideful ppl in the comic, admitting that he said some messed up shit and screwed up. that was a beautiful moment cause taking that many stabs to his ego was a showcase of how far hed come that hed go through such a grand gesture and damage his pride.

mathtans

Hyde also really has no filter when he's talking, while Jekyll has like, massive overthinking of everything before he speaks. It's a live-in-the-moment attitude versus thinking about the future. So if there is a "limit" where they can't help each other, I imagine Jekyll would see it coming.

MK_Wizard

They are opposites @mathtans

mathtans

True. I guess I'm saying that's conveyed well.

Archangel

@RebelVampire it also shows just how deeply Hyde cares for Lucy, that he's willing to basically abase himself like that.

khkddn

i agree w @RebelVampire about that scene, it shows that even if hyde is an opposite to jekyll personality wise, he isn't morally opposite and can be a good person who admits mistakes

mathtans

Speaking of opposites, here's a fun thing I realized. Jekyll loses his job, and his girl, and we feel badly for him. That thug guy Tom ALSO loses his "job" and his "girl" (if shaking down stores can be a job), but because he's on the wrong side of the law (and a jerk), we don't feel badly for him.

Archangel

Well, neither of their flaws are really things that need to be completely removed. They just need to be moderated. Hyde needs to learn a bit of impulse control, and Jeckyl needs to learn to loosen up a bit.

mathtans

Yeah, "Tom" might be the moral opposite.

Archangel

But neither of their attitudes towards life are bad per se, so long as they're not taken to extremes... as they have been doing

Huh, interesting

Or perhaps "there but for the grace of God go I" type of thing?

MK_Wizard

@mathtans Tom is a bad person. Do you all remember how he hit Lucy? Imagine how much worse it would have been if Hyde wasn't there.

RebelVampire

yeah im really interested to see if jekyll's biggest challenge in growing is moderation. cause i didnt entirely disagree with him in certain contexts. like at the party, i was kind of on his side that sometimes just letting things go is better and that theres a time and place for certain...coversations as it were.

Archangel

I'm amazed Lucy doesn't carry a knife or something. Most prostitutes in cities carry something for self-defense (if they're smart), and the habit would likely carry over into working at a bar. Plus Victorian ladies' clothes are REALLY good for concealing weapons. You have to see it to believe it

mathtans

Yeah, jerk as I indicated. Just, similar stuff happened to him. Just thought it was interesting. He's more evil than Hyde is, for sure.

Archangel

Oh absolutely

khkddn

tom doesnt have a cool top hat like hyde and that's why i'll never root for him even if he weren't a bad person(edited)

MK_Wizard

@Archangel Lucy does own a knife, but she knows Tom would have overpowered her.

Archangel

If she'd given him a chance. But I see your point.

The hardest part of hurting or killing someone is actually deciding to do so.

Damaging somebody is terrifyingly easy... if you can bring yourself to do it.

Anyway. off topic.

MK_Wizard

There's a reason she has scars. Like Lucy said, her getting slapped wasn't the worst assault a man had ever done on her. She is brave and tough, but she's not super strong. Lots of men can overpower her and have, but she's not prostitute. She's a waitress, but she is poor so that still makes her an easy target.

Archangel

She started out as a sex worker, though, right? Or am I misremembering.

mathtans

Again, to be clear, I don't think anyone should root for Tom. Just, he had similar stuff happen and approached things in a way that neither Jekyll nor Hyde would. (Very wrongly.)

khkddn

lucy would also need an exit strategy if she used the knife on tom. she would probably have to run away and lay low, which could be more dangerous than staying with him.

mathtans

Lucy is kickass. I liked her remark of an apology shouldn't have a "but".

MK_Wizard

She was a showgirl and eventually had to sort of become a prostitute, but she isn't one anymore.

Archangel

Very true, hadn't thought that through

Seebee

is here to show support

Woo, go MK

Archangel

lol

MK_Wizard

Hey Seebee!

Seebee

Yoooo~

MK_Wizard

Glad you could join us.

You rock!

Seebee

GASP, I'MMA ROCK?!

looks at self

no wonder I got craters on my skiiiin

Archangel

Hope you're a pet rock. Then you get a nice box with straw and everything

MK_Wizard

Just because Lucy is no muscle woman doesn't mean she's a pushover. And now that she doesn't have to submit to people to make a living, she sure as heck never does.

RebelVampire

yeah i think that was a great line, @mathtans cause its really such a simplistic but smart way of weeding a good apology from a bad apology

MK_Wizard

Her having her body belong to herself again is something that is very precious to her.

Archangel

Understandably

Not many people could have gone through as much bad as Lucy has and come out walking erect, as the saying goes. I think that's why admire her so much. I don't think I could ever be that strong.

mathtans

(I'm continuing my read in the background, btw. The April Fools strip with the green hair is a riot. Speaking of bodies belonging to other people.)

khkddn

yeah lucy is one of my favorite characters, she's cool

MK_Wizard

She had to be. No one else was there for her. Back in the day, being of mixed ethnicity was a taboo.

That was the reason she had it rough. It's not right, but... it was not uncommon.

khkddn

if a random person during the time saw lucy would they assume she is mixed? or does she pass as not being mixed?

i'm wondering if this would change how she is treated

Archangel

Speaking for the USA, it depended entirely on the place and the person's specific appearance

But rarely would it be ignored

MK_Wizard

Ha. Well.... she's a cartoon, but if she were real, yes. You would tell because her skin is a bit too dark, she has the eyes and lips, as well as the physique.

mathtans

Just an aside on the topic of cartoons, I feel like it takes a while to draw the hairdos. ^^

MK_Wizard

She can't pass off not being mixed. She's one of those very obvious cases.

Oh ho ho ho. Jekyll's hair IS tedious to draw, but it's worth it because it makes him stand out.

Archangel

Also, her hair isn't right. One of the more dominant traits of African heritage is the way hair behaves--very bristly and stand-outy (I don't know the right word). To get it to flow like Lucy's does, one needs a good deal of product every morning. Or so a friend told me once.

mathtans

Well done, MK. Also for having Emily's be similar, what with the family resemblance.

MK_Wizard

Thanks

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. In the current story, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde have become aware of a mysterious alchemist causing trouble. Who exactly is this mysterious alchemist? Why is this alchemist helping Governor Carew? Exactly what do you think this project is that the board of governors is looking to fund by using the alchemist’s talents? Do you think Mr. Hyde’s previous actions will put the board on extra alert for their investigations? How might this affect Mr. Hyde and Dr. Jekyll’s success in stopping Carew’s villainy, if so? Alternatively, how might the various things the alchemist is able to do (like create gold) change the characters’ views on how the world works? All in all, how do you feel this arc of cases will wind up be solved (or go unsolved)?

Archangel

I do know that one of the standard "tests" of somebody's background back in the bad old days was to look at their hair, precisely because this trait is so dominant.

mathtans

Well, I'm obviously not there yet, but I feel like this was set up very well with the mercury poisoning stuff happening in the background of what I have read.

Archangel

Well, creating gold is always a bad idea when the economy is based on gold. Every mage's guild I've ever seen in any universe has a big fat rule against it

MK_Wizard

In Lucy's case, it's her skin, eyes and lips. Plus, her body type as she got older. Don't forget, coloured people go far beyond the hair and skin.

But back to the subject, it was explicitly stated that making your own gold is 100% illegal.

Archangel

So they have to be either utterly stupid or they don't care about devaluing the currency. Not something for men of means (and thus knowledge of at least some finance and economics) to take lightly

My bad, but my second point stands re: their scheme with the unfortunate chickens

RebelVampire

youre making a huge assumption they understand how the economy works. XD i dont get the impression most of the men of means care, as long as they get theirs and get to have their fancy stuff.

MK_Wizard

Plus, the board of governors have a lot of influence.

mathtans

What about making gold for someone else?

Archangel

I'd like to argue with you, RV, but I can't.

Presumably charged as an accessory, @mathtans

MK_Wizard

@Seebee, you got anything to add to this?

Archangel

Given that we're talking chemistry, though, the other classic thing that comes up aside from gold is some sort of immortality potion. I don't recall any hints to that effect, though.

mathtans

"You made a gold chain for my locket?" "Yes, now it's an accessory."

Seebee

Hmmm... not at the moment

I will be honest, I am ded inside from being out all day))

mathtans

I'm reminded of how Jekyll's first attempts at his formula involved trying almost all elements on the periodic table. He must have certain resources that might be helpful for going after an alchemist.

MK_Wizard

That and Jekyll has the most valuable resource of all: his own genius

Archangel

Mmm. He can certainly analyze any samples or whatnot that Hyde acquires.

RebelVampire

maybe thatll be the next arc, where theyre trying to find an immortality potion.

khkddn

i imagine the alchemist is helping governor carew because he's deeply involved w the plan somehow. it'd be weird if he were just a hired alchemist, because, what're they gonna pay him in? gold?? couldn't he just make the gold himself

Archangel

Perhaps the deal is that they'll put him beyond the law

So he can actually get away with it

No point to crime if you can't enjoy the result

MK_Wizard

It's definitely something big and it also shows how heinous the board of governors really are.

RebelVampire

i kind of think the previous arc has made it more difficult though. cause if i was on the board, i would def be on high alert. all it takes is one guy saying "hey i saw hyde snooping around stopping our gold operation"

MK_Wizard

Actually, nobody can say or do anything.

The alchemist burnt the evidence and place to the ground.

mathtans

Everything probably points back to Carew. That guy is shady as anything. (Incidentally, good job emphasizing his character with that statue debacle near the start. Not a nice man.)

RebelVampire

i can only think the alchemist is in it for the secret project. cause i agree with khkddn, its not like the alchemist needs gold

Archangel

I don't think we've seen any bent cops to this point, which means that the Governors either need enough evidence to fool honest cops (not so easy to fake), or to keep mum

MK_Wizard

It's a bit of both. Not enough evidence and some cops are crooked much to Sgt. Drumwell's dismay.

Archangel

There's always a few, and they always get promoted. >_<

Kei Esteban

Hello! Sorry I'm Late!

MK_Wizard

It's cool!

Archangel

*Hi ho

khkddn

heya

Kei Esteban

Thanks

RebelVampire

tbf its not like these are modern csi times. so theres only so many ways they can analyze evidence in the first place

MK_Wizard

Exactly

khkddn

do they even have fingerprint technology at this point?

Archangel

The techniques were fully established by that point, but not so widely accepted

MK_Wizard

They do have a way of detecting fingerprints, but fire destroys everything.

mathtans

Gotta make themselves a time machine.

Archangel

Wiki "Henry Classification System" sometime for an interesting insight into pre-fingerprint policing

khkddn

ah well to get anything out of ashes i think they would need chemical analysis that doesn't exist yet. it'd prolly be faster to build a time machine yep

Archangel

The problem with fire is that it alters the chemical composition of everything

MK_Wizard

Exactly. The alchemist knew precisely what he was doing.

Archangel

So unless you have research data, it's pretty much impossible to ID the source substances.

khkddn

they need chemical analysis that doesn't even exist in OUR time yet

Archangel

Well, the good guys do have a genius (al)chemist on their side...

Speaking of, @MK_Wizard , is there an actual technical distinction between chemistry and alchemy, or is it just po-tay-to/po-tah-to?

mathtans

Maybe someone will Hyde the evidence.

MK_Wizard

Yes and no.

khkddn

if only the chickens could speak english. then the truth would be out there

MK_Wizard

To explain, alchemy has some spirituality and magical properties behind it. Basically, it was the stepping stone to chemistry. People discovered that magic did have a science behind it and upon further research, people discovered that magic had a direct link to nature.

khkddn

i have to work on a school project and this is distracting me way too much so i'm gonna go. it's been fun chatting!

Archangel

glhf

MK_Wizard

With that, human beings who have no magic invented a way to "use magic" without having any themselves. Alchemy. They would use ways of manipulating nature in supernatural ways and through that, they discovered how to make chemicals and made other marvels through science.

@khkddn thanks for joining us

Of course, it wasn't just humans who used magic. Other races did too.

Kei Esteban

Ah, Other than Trolls and Humans, do you have any interest in having other Races show up?

mathtans

Interesting bringing that up, what with trolls being a thing common enough to be known with police. I wondered too.(edited)

MK_Wizard

Definitely. In fact, you already saw two and didn't know it.

Remember the short guy Biggs? He's a gnome.

Archangel

Oh cool

Kei Esteban

Ah Neat ^_^

Archangel

I still say he needs a buddy named Wedge

Kei Esteban

XD

RebelVampire

thats interesting. cause i was curious why everyone was like shrugging to the presence of trolls

XD

MK_Wizard

The other one is Tyler the redhead, but what HE is... you're going to see

mathtans

Now I'm picturing Biggs renting himself out to stand in gardens during the day.

Archangel

"If I parked a tank outside your office, after a week it would be just another car." --one of my vet buddies

Kei Esteban

I look forward to finding out ^_^

Archangel

(as in my buddy who's a vet. I was never in the Service)

Also, London in our world is one of the most metropolitan environments on earth. I bet it's the same in the story.

MK_Wizard

Most definitely,

mathtans

I now kind of wonder about interracial breeding.

MK_Wizard

It's like the "New York" of Europe in my comic. You'll find anyone there.

Archangel

Just like in real life

MK_Wizard

You've seen it already. Sgt. Drumwell is half troll and half human.

mathtans

Like, troll and human must be a thing given how Hyde and Lucy.... oh, yeah? Hummmm.

MK_Wizard

Hence his human appearance, but he has yellow fangs and his eyes.

Kei Esteban

Settings like that are always nice too see

MK_Wizard

It's also why he's compassionate. He was lucky because his parents were very wealthy so their money protected them. Plus, he passes off as a human mostly, but his eyes, teeth and height give him away.

Archangel

Well, it's for MK to say for sure, but one of the definitions of separate species is the inability to interbreed. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule. It would be interesting to see Hyde and Lucy have little ones, though. In due course.

Kei Esteban

indeed

RebelVampire

are laws applied equally or is there inequality as far as different species go? like is there special laws that only exist for trolls, etc.?

mathtans

Actually, Sgt Drumwell is their child. Eventually Jekyll perfects the time machine and sends him back.

MK_Wizard

lol no

Archangel

lmao

MK_Wizard

Here's how it works. It's generally a taboo socially, but if you're very rich, you can get away with a lot. You just won't be respected for it.

For example... there's another non-human you saw without knowing it. Utterson's redheaded wife Camilla. She's a wizard.

AND he married her without making her convert to his faith/human lifestyle. He allows her to continue living openly as a wizard and practicing her culture.

Archangel

Fascinating. And again, makes sense that people would regard sentient species the way they regarded other races at the time.

Kei Esteban

Well he is a Great guy, so that's not too surprising he would be respectful of her completely

MK_Wizard

Her hair was also an Easter Egg to her race. In old lore, red heads were often thought to be witches.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. Despite working together, Mr. Hyde and Dr. Jekyll still argue quite often and risk their own safety a lot. How might their shared injury and pain help or hurt their ability to function in their own daily lives in the future? Do you believe that at some point the two’s shared identity of sorts will be revealed? If so, how do you envision this coming about? Given the growing relationship between Mr. Hyde and Lucy, will Mr. Hyde be compelled to tell her at some point? What about Dr. Jekyll with his niece and nephew? Do you think the two’s shared arrangement with the body will work long term, or will they at some point need to make alterations to their living situation? Ultimately, how do you feel their living arrangement will affect their future adventures, whatever you think those future adventures might be?

Kei Esteban

@MK_Wizard Oh no! They are on too me! (I'm a Red head XD)(edited)

MK_Wizard

Ok, for this... I leave entirely up to all of you. So... bring on the fan theories!

Archangel

Let's see. Well, Lucy absolutely has a right to know. How she'll react, I have no idea.

As to Emily & Will... I think Emily should be briefed in, if only so she won't freak out if Hyde has to come get them to prevent a kidnapping or something by the opposition.

MK_Wizard

Keep in mind. Nobody knows yet.

Nobody except Louis and he's not talking.

Archangel

Right. I think Lucy can keep a secret. Emily... honestly don't know her well enough to say.

RebelVampire

yeah i think as far as a long term arrangement, its not gonna work. because assuming hyde wants to marry lucy at some point, thatd be problematic. even worse, what if jekyll meets somebody. they are fooling themselves if they think this can work out indefinitely. so jekyll is gonna need to put that genius to work.

Kei Esteban

I think it would be best in the long run for those closest to them to know. Lucy and Emily would be a great start indeed

Archangel

Knowledge of the situation would be all that Carew & Lanyon need to discredit anything Jeckyl says, ever, so it certainly can't become public knowledge.

MK_Wizard

Lanyon is out of the picture for good. It's the one thing I can confirm. He's defeated for good.

Archangel

Yay!

He was a good bad guy, though

Kei Esteban

I love how he effectively defeated himself! XD

MK_Wizard

That was the point. And it was also karma. Lanyon got successful by riding on Jekyll's tail and taking everything that was his.

In the end, doing this was his undoing.

Sure he didn't have Jekyll's money to do stuff, but it didn't make being a skunk ok especially because Jekyll really did see him as a friend and would have hlped him.

Kei Esteban

It was such a Creative way to end the conflict ^_^

Archangel

I don't think he'd believe you if you'd told him that to his face. People like that seem to get that way because they assume that everybody's out to get everybody. At least in my (blessedly limited) contact with the species.

Kei Esteban

That's an unfortunate way to look at the world. By that i mean the "everybody out to get everybody" bit.(edited)

MK_Wizard

I wanted to show that there are good and bad people from every social standing.

Basically, different kinds of good and bad people.

mathtans

Back. (Had to see to the little one briefly.)

MK_Wizard

Aww

mathtans

In terms of people knowing, would they believe without seeing the transformation?

Archangel

Good question

MK_Wizard

Would you? I don't think so.

mathtans

It's not like people have iPhones to video record it.

Archangel

That might help them keep the secret

mathtans

I mean, there's the argument of they haven't been in the same room together.

RebelVampire

nah i highly doubt it. in fact, far more likely the person claiming this is a thing that happened would get sent to an asylum

MK_Wizard

Yeah, but... who would believe the two share a body that transforms without seeing it?

mathtans

Though I agree with Rebel that they'll need to figure something out so that relationship things don't become an issue.

Someone with MPD?

MK_Wizard

Not talking (teasing)

I will share one tidbit... At the end of the true end of the story, there will be no loose ends.

For anything. And that is all.

mathtans

Just got to the bit with Lanyon, btw, that you were referencing earlier. That was very clever, coming full circle, and good final shot of him in the mirror.

RebelVampire

actually ya know tbf, didnt louis take some of the potion. you could use louis to show its a real thing

in the sense of the transformation

mathtans

Crazy theory time: Jekyll figures out how to shift Hyde to share a body with someone else instead. Hyde and Lucy decide to become "one", and ride off into the sunset.

MK_Wizard

I will say this now... no.

That sounds romantic on paper, but that would actually be bad.

Because how would they be a couple?

mathtans

Kissing mirrors.

Archangel

That'd make it like that one movie where the knight and the lady each shapeshift, but they alternate states at dawn and can never be together. That was one weird movie.

Good curse, though

MK_Wizard

That sounds like the worst kind of hell for two people deeply in love. To be so close, yet completely separate.

Kei Esteban

@MK_Wizard like Garnet, from Steven Universe? XD

Archangel

Actually, what Mat describes would be a truly horrible curse for a couple. I might use that someday.

MK_Wizard

Garnet is not Ruby and Sapphie per se. She is the embodiment of their love.

mathtans

Yeah, you're not wrong. Okay, so Hyde and Poole...?

Archangel

Poole's not getting any younger

What happens when one half dies?

MK_Wizard

They both die.

Kei Esteban

@MK_Wizard Very True (I guess we can't use Gem logic here)(edited)

mathtans

Yeah, I think that was stated. When they hurt, the other hurts too.

RebelVampire

yeah i feel the fact they share pain and death is gonna be weaponized against them. cause if i needed to get rid of hyde, id go for jekyll if i knew that fact. cause whats jekyll gonna do? slap me a little?

Kei Esteban

then how about Hyde and Carew? (Hyde just takes over full time)

MK_Wizard

You all really hit the nail on the head that them sharing a body, but not lives and such is going to become a challenge.

Archangel

Good point. Though you'd have to bump Jeckyl right away rather than keeping him around. Come sunset...

mathtans

Just to talk about Emily again (because she's cool), I feel like she'd understand, if the truth came out. Though I wonder if she'd be hurt that Jekyll didn't say anything sooner.

Archangel

Ooo, I like Kei's idea. Not sure it works that way, though.

MK_Wizard

And I will disprove the theory now.... Hyde and Jekyll cannot suddenly be shifted to another person. Neither soul is a "disease" you can hand onto someone else.

Archangel

@mathtans I agree. My concern would be whether she can keep a secret. She is a teenage girl, after all.

MK_Wizard

They are a person.

Archangel

And keeping a cool secret is hard at any age

MK_Wizard

They are two people.

Kei Esteban

indeed

mathtans

Archangel: She's pretty mature for her age though. Granted, she's also pretty outspoken. I don't think she'd say anything intentionally, but it might come out in the heart of the moment or something. (Which is maybe why she could accept not having been told.)

RebelVampire

i think emily could keep a secret. now will on the otherhand

MK_Wizard

So all theories of them being put onto someone else will not come to pass because that's impossible.

RebelVampire

will i would believe couldnt keep a secret cause hes even younger(edited)

Archangel

Perhaps with the materials to 'construct' a new body, and the proper spellwork, each can be embodied separately? Sort of a siamese twin operation?

Will is right out at his age.

Kei Esteban

Will being a kid, might even think it's cool (Which he would be right)(edited)

mathtans

So maybe one of them decides to sacrifice themselves for the good of the two of them. Jekyll already tried that once.

MK_Wizard

I won't say much about who can keep a secret, but in my experience, it goes with personality not age.

Archangel

I will say that almost nobody under the age of 10 can keep a secret in my experience. But aside from that, agreed.

mathtans

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Nellie couldn't keep a secret.

MK_Wizard

You've also seen that Hyde would never have that. He's not an active killer. And he loves Jekyll as a brother. He wouldn't kill him if he asked him to.

And taking over essentially does that.

Archangel

I'm not sure Nellie's bright enough to grasp the core concept XD

Kei Esteban

XD

Archangel

Here's a really trippy question, MK: do J&D have separate souls, or do they share one?

mathtans

(And I had to go to the cast page to look up the name, and now I see how "half troll" is right there in Drumwell's bio, nice.)

MK_Wizard

They have separate souls.

Archangel

Obviously their minds are separate, but I'm questioning their spiritual state in the technical sense

Okay, so it's reasonable to theorize that they could be separated and embodied separately. It would certainly take high magic, though.

MK_Wizard

The Hyde Formula has magical properties. For example, did you know that in reincarnation, the soul splits? Hence why some people who get reincarnated can be reincarnated as multiple people.

Archangel

I've never heard that.

mathtans

Well, if the original intention was a sort of "Disney" Jekyll and Hyde, maybe there will be a Disney ending? Somehow?

Archangel

Pillars of Eternity has this whole thing about souls fragmenting, but that's more like chips off a rock over time.

MK_Wizard

In the case of Jekyll and Hyde, Hyde came from a piece of Jekyll's own soul, but it became its own unique being.

Yes, You got it!

Archangel

Makes sense.

MK_Wizard

Keep in mind, even Disney endings aren't always perfect.

RebelVampire

the disney ending will be hyde and lucy riding off in a carriage with the just got married sign and jekyll will come to cause they decided to just make it a threesome

although that joke aside i wonder if jekyll and lucy will ever interact

MK_Wizard

Uh, no lol

Lucy is not Jekyll's type and Hyde would not share his woman with anyone.

Nor would Jekyll do that.

Jekyll is as monogamous as they come lol.

mathtans

Hmmm, and is it too late to ship Lucy and Emma?

Archangel

RV is right insofar as it would be interesting to see how Jeckyl and Lucy get along socially. I imagine that after some initial sounding out, they'll manage well enough. After all, Lucy is a lady and Jeckyl is a gentleman. That goes a long way.

lmao

Kei Esteban

It would be nice to see Jekyll meet someone new, that is actually good for him

Archangel

^

MK_Wizard

@mathtans That ship is solely wish fulfilment and a fan fantasy.

RebelVampire

i more wonder the social interaction cause that could make hyde jealous. if jekyll and lucy got along even if it was totally platonic

Archangel

Actually, someone like Emily would be very good for Jeckyl... in the sense of personality, not age.

mathtans

(I always ship the ladies... ) And actually, the thought that it's a fan fantasy already amuses me.

Archangel

Cue the "I ship it, I don't care" song

MK_Wizard

I made this comic knowing people would do ships if the comic caught on. All I say is that, as long as you accept that it is not the official storyline.

mathtans

Maybe Jekyll can be the best man at the Hyde/Lucy wedding?

Archangel

Only if Poole is the Father of the Bride

Otherwise J would slide down to second place IMO

mathtans

What's official is definitely up to the author. All the best with it! It's an interesting take.

MK_Wizard

Thanks

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Marika Kapogeorgakis (or MK_Wizard), as well, for making MK’s The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Marika Kapogeorgakis (or MK_Wizard)’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: http://mksjekyllandhyde.thecomicseries.com/

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Marika’s Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/mkwizard

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Marika’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/MKJekyllAndHyde