#like why is he so invested in cloud killing tifa specifically. is it because he knows tifa is the one who helps him regain himself later

[aerithisms]

played through the gongaga reactor in ff7 rebirth. live gnome reaction:

[iaintyourbro]

Mental Gymnastics and the Sanity Question

I wrote this on June 2, 2020 and put it in my drafts. I don’t think I was brave enough to post this because it states how I really feel about things and at times that can be met with resistance. Almost three months later, after more research, talking to others in the fandom, and putting everything together, I’m going to share it now. I also know how to properly add pictures in a post so I’m gonna do that too.

Obviously, this is my opinion on it. Clearly from a fandom perspective, I love Cloud and Tifa as a couple. However, I’m ultimately a “canon-y” person. I do not ship couples without knowing the whole story. I ship after I know what happens. FFVII’s OG... I wasn’t too invested in, so I didn’t really do anything with fandom. I was online for FFVIII, Xenogears, and Gundam Wing. Anything FFVII related was Vincent related. 

***

Oh shipping, something I learned about recently. As a person who played FFVII at the age of 12 (well, started it) and then actually completed the game at around 13 or 14, the bulk of it went over my head. FFVIII was a clear cut romance, and probably why it was my favorite FF for 20 years. That being said, FFVII does have an ending, and does have a pretty clear relationship build between two of the characters. That’s then followed through in the additional media for the compilation. 

So why is there a fight? I honestly don’t know, and this post isn’t going to answer your questions, probably. I am going to give my opinion on why there is a fight, but I’m not a psychologist. This is how I personally feel about the entire FFVII shipping war and the impact it has on people - especially during the COVID quarantine in many areas. 

I played FF7R and was pleasantly surprised. I actually was scared to play it - scared it would change something I enjoyed as a teen. I was one that hoped for a 1 to 1 remake to keep the story solid. The reality is... the OG story is bare bones, which is why they ended up putting out multiple other pieces in the form of games, books, and movies. This bare bones story seemed to also create a war on who our protagonist loves. You realize how bare bones it is after playing the remake. 

That’s not to say it’s not a good game or good story. The OG is a fantastic game. It’s a fantastic story. It has the same issues every other RPG has where it has major gaps in the plot due to timing, money, whatever. The difference I’d say with FFVII and the others is the story is MUCH MORE COMPLEX and MUCH MORE MATURE. The closest I’d say is Xenogears, which literally was cut short due to time and money. FFVII and Xenogears also share a lot of similar themes, which makes a lot of sense when you know the “scrapped” FFVII ideas were repurposed. 

Most of us were kids or young teens when that game came out. We probably played it and understood about 60% of what was going on. We remember Cloud cross-dressing, we remember Aerith dying, and we remember Sephiroth. (And if you’re me you remember Vincent.)

The first part of the game, you’re given multiple choices on how to respond to things. This ends up being part of a “date mechanic” later on in the game. Feels like you have control, right? You’re the one who is going to determine who Cloud gets to date at the Gold Saucer! Who his life partner is! 

Wrong. 

Yeah, you make choices and it does determine who you go on a date with. However, you find out much later in the game that Cloud isn’t really Cloud. There are multiple hints early in the game that something isn’t right. It builds up until you literally see a ghostly figure of child Cloud standing there as Cloud beats the crap out of Aerith and gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth. Cloud hears voices during multiple scenes in the game, but meh, whatever. Seeing his child form, though, you’re like UM OKAY. 

So, you build up your relationship with Aerith. You say all the right things. You get the date with her, she says she wants to meet you. Then you go to the Temple of the Ancients, a cute little part with Cait Sith giving a fortune that you and her are meant to be... and about 10 minutes later you beat the living shit out of her and hand over the Black Materia to the enemy. 

At this point, you realize something is seriously wrong. Aerith disappears. The next time you see her, she dies. 

Then the focus is only on getting Sephiroth. Not just because of Aerith, but Cloud is being summoned by him - you just don’t know that until you get there. Cloud realizes that he wasn’t pursuing Sephiroth, he was being pulled to him. I mean, Aerith dies and isn’t mentioned for quite some time. There isn’t any point after she floats down that they really mourn. They go snowboarding and go after Sephiroth. 

Then Cloud completely breaks... when TIFA questions what she remembers and can’t give Cloud a clear answer. And this may come as a shock to somebody who was trying to woo Aerith. Why does Tifa matter so much? Cloud didn’t break due to Aerith dying, Cloud broke because Tifa didn’t know how to tell him that he wasn’t in Nibelheim 5 years ago (that she knew of). 

They don’t really build the relationship up between Cloud and Tifa until pretty much after this point. They talk about the Promise, they talk about some other quirks, they infer that Tifa has a crush on Cloud. 

You really aren’t aware that Cloud has a crush on Tifa until The Lifestream, when IT ALL COMES OUT. To be fair, Cloud didn’t show romantic interest to either girl in OG prior to the Northern Crater, honestly. More so until the Lifestream.

The Crisis of Losing Control 

You also lose the ability to make choices at this point in the game. 

During the first part, you are acting almost as Cloud’s false persona. The cool SOLDIER Cloud that makes nice or nasty choices towards other characters. You determine, to an extent, how Cloud is. But it’s an illusion. 

And Aerith tells us this in the Remake - that whatever you’re feeling now isn’t real. This isn’t a love confession, this is a warning. If you played the OG, you know she’s referring to his false persona.

The reason I think this gets so heated is because of the loss of control, the feeling of betrayal that the one you thought was supposed to be the one is gone, and all along Cloud held deep feelings for Tifa. You’re also probably young and inexperienced when this happens. The romantic notion of Romeo and Juliet, if you will. 

I think it also depends on how you deal with Aerith’s death. Personally, it wasn’t a huge deal to me. I was like damn did that just happen? I wouldn’t say I was sad, though, or upset. More shocked? Sadly at this point in my life, I’d already lost family members, and moving on is very important. I also didn’t notice Cloud doing ANYTHING romantic in the OG. It felt one sided all around until much, much later on. So I didn’t see it as Cloud losing the love of his life. I actually had no idea why he was upset except they were friends. 

There’s a clear end to the potential romance between Cloud and Aerith - she dies. Now in the world of FFVII, Aerith is a Cetra and has the ability to communicate with the planet and apparently those that are still living once she dies. However, that doesn’t mean that Cloud is going to pursue a relationship with her... that is... crazy, right? 

Apparently.. Not? 

This is where I start having an issue with shipping. The story clearly shows that Aerith dies. The story clearly shows that Cloud harbors deep feelings for Tifa during the Lifestream scene. Both of these events are set - there are no alternatives, no optional scenes. At no point during the Lifestream is anybody else mentioned as a romantic interest. Tifa dominates this guy’s subconscious. But to some, there does seem to be an alternative.

The most extreme I’ve seen is that Cloud should kill himself to be with Aerith. This is disturbing on so many levels, so I’m not going to talk about it much. This not only misses the point of one of the big themes in FFVII, but also just shows how desperate people are to get what they want.

The other is that Cloud actually only loves Aerith and Tifa was his living rebound. The story doesn’t support this. Watch the Lifestream scene and it’s obvious. Once again, we have no mention of anybody else during this. 

The mental gymnastics it takes to put Cloud and Aerith together as the canon couple blows my mind. 

***

And that’s where I stopped. I had noticed at the time there was major pushback on anybody who denied romance between Cloud and Aerith. I guess I just wasn’t ready to deal with it nor did I have the confidence I suppose. Now I’m confident in that after three months of observing, learning, and contemplating.

So I’ll finish with a few thoughts because apparently in fandom land three months is a long time.

COVID-19 Quarantine

The majority of the world went under quarantine earlier this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Personally, the last time I saw my cubicle was March 9. Not that I’m sad, because I do enjoy working remotely. But it’s not just my cubicle, restaurants, zoos, everything was shut down and is slowly opening up but I’m not exactly keen on going somewhere unless I absolutely have to. 

This gave me a ton of time to do other things. FFVII Remake came out, so I played that and, yeah, I got really obsessed and went into this depressed void of what the fuck am I going to do until the next part comes out? Hello, online fandom. Hello, insanity. 

I’ve learned that the FFVII online fandom - specifically the shipping fandom - is crazy in good and bad ways. This, of course, was reignited by the Remake’s release, but most likely really amplified due to people being under quarantine. This is an escape from reality for a while. An escape from the constant depressing news cycle.

Before I discovered fandom I was obsessed with COVID-19 information. I watched all kinds of new broadcasts, Dr. Fauci, random people on YouTube, and it was overwhelming after a while. Remake saved me from that. I played Remake before I went into fandom. I played it as a non-shipper. I was slammed in the face with how amazing they portrayed Cloud and Tifa. 

Self Insertion

The other piece that seems to be apparent in angry shippers is the idea of self insertion. This simply means that you put yourself in the place of the character, so you begin to take things personally. If a person self inserts as Cloud, and their personal preference is Aerith, they become angry when Aerith dies and we find out who Cloud TRULY loves. If somebody self inserts as Aerith, they’re upset that they were never a real love interest. 

Most people go “oh okay, I see.” and move on and/or move to fanon if they truly wanted those two together. 

Then there’s the people who, for 20+ years, spread false information, attack, stalk, and go ballistic anytime there’s any type of evidence that they were wrong. 

The Big Ego

Nobody likes being wrong. FFVII has a major twist in it that causes you to go into a daze, and I do think they do a great job with that. Aerith isn’t it. Her death isn’t the big twist. It’s Cloud that’s the big twist. Going through the Lifestream (and even prior at the Northern Crater) reveals like ohhh shiitttt everything you know about Cloud is a lie.

And he even tells us it’s an illusion. Imagine that?

I am very strongly swayed by evidence from official resources. I suppose I take a scientific approach to this. I cannot find canon evidence that Cloud ever held any romantic feelings towards Aerith. Therefore, to me, Cloud never held any romantic feelings for anyone but Tifa because that’s what the game and resources tell us. 

Luckily, the Remake is making things clear. The devs are being more direct when answering questions. 

There was never supposed to be ambiguity or “player choice”. The fact that you lose player choice at one point and there are fixed events in the game (The Lifestream) that cannot be changed should have been evidence enough. The fact that there are not multiple endings should have been a clue. 

With all of this being said, it shouldn’t matter what I say if you want to ship a fanon ship. I do not see any romance between Cloud and Aerith and I never have. There is no supporting evidence of it. I generally am boring - I don’t try to fanon too much stuff that I have other evidence for. I’ll do it in jest. 

My opinion on Cloud and Aerith in general is I don’t think they work or ever could work. That shouldn’t stop you from enjoying the ship. You cannot claim canon on a ship though unless there’s evidence. There’s way too much twisting, lying, and deletion to justify certain ships. This is one of them.

[nautilusopus]

sorry this is a lot but I enjoy your opinions. G, P, U, W, X, Z

G - Have you ever had an OTP? If so, do you remember your first one? Who was in it?

Nah. I’m aggressively boring and uninvested in general in most romances so I usually just go with whatever’s canon and call it a day.

The closest thing I got to ever shipping in the past was being mildly surprised that people saw Link and Zelda as an item in Twilight Princess because they don’t really talk much in that game (they have maybe two conversations? Three if we count any presumed dialogue they might’ve had during the last boss battle when they’re on a horse together). I wouldn’t say I’m actually invested in it one way or another though. Link didn’t really have much of a personality until Wind Waker came along. 

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas).

FFXV AU where Noctis asks literally any questions at all about anything and interacts with the plot as an active participant in it instead of a copypasted emotional beat from FFX and thus doesn’t die at the end due to lazy writer caveat. (spoilers i guess) 

I am so so so so tempted to write this and the urge has been growing stronger over the last few weeks. I imagine fans of XV wouldn’t be too thrilled I’m writing fanfic specifically because I hate everything about XV, but y’all keep circulating posts about how writing fanfic to fix canon is totally valid!!! so I fully expect everyone to walk the walk after talking the talk. 

On another note, AU where Cloud never actually makes it to Midgar after Zack gets filled with lead, thus never meeting Tifa at and least screwing his head on semi-straight, and just wanders around in the wilderness as a weird amnesiac murderhobo in a perpetual fugue state. Hijinks ensue I guess.

Shit, I should write that. 

And now I have 48 fics queued. Look at what you’ve done. Are you proud of yourself?

U - Three favorite characters from three different fandoms, and why they’re your favorites.

alright let’s get the obvious one out of the way

Cloud because I used to fucking despise him and over time he really grew on me after I was exposed to his genuinely moving character arc and narrative that actively trampled every expectation I had about what it would be. Dumb asshole that unabashedly loves his friends, which is something that you rarely if ever see in other protagonists of his mould which is why it infurates me as much as it does when people (Square or the fanbase, it’s annoying either way) try to downplay it. That was one of the things that made him unique and compelling in the first place and you’re actively discarding it? Fuck you. 

It’s genuinely refreshing to see someone try as hard as they can and fail catastrophically in every possible respect, and then that’s just the result and he has to come terms with that pain as something shaping who he was instead of just learning a lesson and then getting over it. There are a lot of matter-of-fact moments like that with regards to loss and pain in VII but Cloud’s arc actually took one of said moments and made it extremely cathartic. 

I have a lot of fukken feelings about Cloud, man. That character analysis essay is officially four years old and the ETA on it is “whenever I guess”.

Azula from ATLA. I mean, I adore basically everyone in that series so I don’t even know which one I’d call my favourite, but I do think I ought to highlight Azula since a lot of who she is kinda gets overlooked. She’s like a family-friendly Eva character. 

It’s genuinely fascinating to watch her break down, and on a second rewatch you can sort of tell which beats fell into place where. Ironically, she considers Zuko the “favoured child”, and part of the reasons she utterly despises/loves/despises him as much as she does is because she tries to earn his approval in her own weird, sociopathic way. Then, when he inevitably bails, he not only rejects her, he goes and shacks up with even more people that consciously chose to love him, and for all her talent, after all her hard work, all she has is Ozai, who’s probably never loved anything in his life. The unfairness of it all. 

The breakdown she has at the end isn’t even anything new, really. It’s just the first time other people get to see it. 

Speaking of Eva, Shinji. DISCLAIMER: YES SHINJI MASTURBATED TO COMPLETION OVER ASUKA’S COMATOSE BODY IN A BLATANT DISPLAY OF NOT ONLY HIS GENERAL DISLIKE AND FEAR OF WOMEN BUT IN AN EXPRESSION OF HIS REFUSAL TO PROJECT AFFECTION ONTO PEOPLE BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN REJECT HIM, PREFERRING TO SEE ASUKA AS A PERSON-SHAPED OBJECT INSTEAD. THERE I HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROBLEMATIQUE ™ BIT NOW. CAN I LIKE THIS CHARACTER YET?

Shinji and Cloud have a lot of the same character arc, as I’ve mentioned probably more than a few times because I repeat myself a lot. Where Cloud is a more optimistic take on defining oneself on one’s own terms and as a result accepting that they can be someone worthy of love, Shinji’s side of that concept is waaaaaaaaaaay more cynical, in that Shinji kind of… doesn’t learn to do that in the end. Refuses to, in fact, to the point where it gets everyone killed. Also Kaworu is Zack if Zack actually had character development and if C//la/ck was actually canon. Where Cloud overcomes his fear of rejection by learning he is deserving of existence on his own merits, otherwise why would he have people that care about him in the first place, Shinji is crippled by it and spends most of the series screaming at anything that remotely resembles responsibility. For a guy that repeatedly tells himself “I mustn’t run away” his reaction to everything is almost exclusively to run away. 

Now, I’m not necessarily implying that if things had gone worse, Cloud might have masturbated to completion over Tifa’s comatose body, but like… I’m just saying.

(Though Aeris and Tifa were admittedly a lot more stable than poor Asuka or Rei ever were, as low of a bar as that may be.)

In case it wasn’t obvious, I clearly have a Type. And that type is a maladjusted child soldier screaming VALIDATE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE from the top of the lightpole they climbed up to avoid their feelings, and they all deserve a good hug and a firm shove down a flight of stairs or two, in either order. 

W - A trope which you are virtually certain to hate in any fandom.

Love triangles. If I wanted to see a bunch of assholes do a bunch of petty bickering fueled by hormones and poor communication and pitting two people against one another for extremely asinine reasons, I’d lurk outside a high school. 

X - A trope which you are almost certain to love in any fandom.

Apart from the aforementioned Type ™ I have, people getting overwhelmed by gestures of basic human decency and the implications of that. 

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go! (Prompts optional but encouraged.)

God they did poor Luna so dirty. You could have replaced her with another fucking crystal or something and it would affect the plot about as much. Man, didn’t the selling point for FF used to be its rich, inventive storytelling? 

Come the fuck on, Square, you had female characters figured out in fucking 1992. This isn’t hard.