#like what do you say to ppl who defend and justify what the zionist

[trossards]

i’m on a teambuilding with work and argued with two co-workers about palestine and isr*** and it was so fucked up i was shaking so bad i almost spilled my tea AND started crying so if anyone can give advice on how to discuss this topic without getting so emotional and wanting to slap people in the face i’d gladly take it

[moonlayl]

Rant

I know it’s not healthy but I’m actually really struggling not to let rage consume me. Like I’m shaking right now.

On one hand you have Zionists, who literally either a) outright deny Israel’s war crimes b) question the validity of Palestinian sources and deaths (despite there being fcking proof) or c) justify what Israel is doing and parrot around the bullshit arguments you see everywhere that don’t really make sense, and that you can’t even discuss because there’s nothing to say

And then on the other hand, you have people who are against what Israel is doing but seem to think a ceasefire is the ultimate goal or that everything will be fine afterwards (???) and are opposed to actually changing the status quo and actually liberating the Palestinian people. It’s like “yeahhhh! Israel shouldn’t bomb Palestinians the way they are, butttt Israel itself isn’t the problem, Netanyahu is!” Like shut the fuck up, the entire system is built on oppressing Palestinians.

You do not support Palestinians right to live, exist, be free, and have their rights if you don’t support a complete change of what Israel is, and if you don’t support the liberation of Palestine.

And don’t even get me started on the “support Palestine!!!! But not resistance 🤪”

“Israel shouldn’t be carpet bombing but also they DO have the right to defend themselves” defend themselves from WHAT? The people they’re occupying?? Do Palestinians not have a right to defend themselves from those oppressing them?

Wtf is even the point of your “support” at this point??

And then on a third hand (I’m too tired to word this better) you have the pro Palestinian crowd, who aren’t stupid or evil (for lack of a better term) or naive like the ppl I described above, who do support Palestinian liberation, yet at the same time stand against the liberation of other people, specifically other Arabs.

HOW???

I just had this pro Palestinian person literally tell me that Syrians should accept their oppression under Bashar Al Assad and shut up about it because they’ll never be able to fight it and they don’t deserve to be failed or to be free. They were literally mocking the millions displaced and killed in Syria. How the fuck do you champion yourself as someone who cares for human rights and stands for humanitarian issues, yet not allow that to extend to Syrians? Or Yeminis? Or Egyptians? Or Libyans? Or Lebanese people? Or literally everyone else??

Like what is wrong with the Arab شعوب that makes them so uncaring, so hypocritical, and so shitty?

I don’t understand.

The amount of pro Palestinian people either bootlicking the shit out of Assad or Sisi or whatever, like has everyone collectively lost their damn minds?

How do you fight for one group of oppressed ppl but be happy about another group being oppressed just because you personally don’t like that country?? There’s so much discrimination and it’s so frustrating to witness.

Why do our communities have to fight over who’s deserving of freedom or whatever, when the answer is, we all are, and every country that’s being oppressed by another or its own government, deserves to be free and liberated?

I have zero respect for those who try to belittle what Bashar Al Assad did or who praise/defend him to any capacity.

And I understand it’s probably better for me to take a step back or just not engage or whatever, for my own mental health, but at the same time, the rage at people’s cruelty, people’s disregard for human life, and the no jistixe occurring everywhere in the world, don’t be calmed and so t go away if I ignore it.

That anger is still gonna be present. How do you “positivity!!! Mental health!!” Your way out of literal oppression, war crimes, and injustice??

I don’t even know anymore. I’m gonna keep trying to share news/resources etc… even though I’ve been lacking for the last little while.

[consistantly-changing]

[Transcript of the post on the screenshots: Very sick of the regular "pro palestinian" blogger doing their casual daily op-eds on Hamas in some misguided defense of palestinians. Like what does this person on twitter need to "think" about per say. That if we continue to distinguish hamas from the past resistance movements that we save palestinians from being perceived as terrorists?? The PLO (was) and PFLP (is) considered terrorist organizations and their conflation with each other and Hamas is already set in stone in the western world. In what world is this twitter user somehow providing America and other western countries a scapegoat to censor and imprison palestinians. This is already happening...for a while

I also take complete issue with the idea that Hamas can just be severed from past resistance movements that were borne the same way even if hamas and the plo are politically opposed

Yes the pflp and other groups exist, and were a part of the operation on October 7, but Hamas has more popular support than any other group especially in the West Bank because of the PAs complicity in occupation. Palestinians are not a hivemind and we have varying beliefs of what it will take to achieve liberation but the idea that Hamas is not an active part of that process or they're "regressing" palestinian liberation is completely inaccurate and intellectually lazy.]

[And, this blogger might retort "they killed jews they killed children. You can't expect me to accept them as a valid form of resistance. It's terrorism" except... i do expect you to recognize that regardless of these acts, they are still an armed resistance group fighting for palestinian liberation and against zionist invasion that is at the forefront of their operation and even now as they fight israeli soldiers invading gaza. Israeli troops are in Gaza and the armed wing of Hamas, al Qassam, with the PIJ and the armed wing of the PFLP are killing israeli soldiers and destroying israeli tanks and that is important and that is reality. These resistance groups are working in tandem something that was never thought as possible and Hamas found a way to coordinate and sow relations between so many different factions after decades of Israel's divide and conquer strategy. Also like if you're still making posts talking about Hamas' sole responsibility on October 7th as there were other actors, i seriously doubt your knowledge at all other than that you seem well versed in the history of palestinian political parties?

One of the things that bother me about this discourse of late is that this person and many others have convinced themselves that they are in a corner of a room holding onto this perception that palestinians and allies who support Hamas are just misguided ppl who have "denied" the, in their eyes, senseless terrorism of Hamas on October 7th. Reality is that defending Hamas is the same to us as defending the last vanguard of armed Palestinian resistance. And not responding to the pressure to condemn the operation is not the same as denial or trying to claim that Al Qassam militants did not do anything that was not "aesthetically revolutionary"]

[It also goes without saying that like everything being pushed into the news about the barbaric murders and rapes is with a purpose that's not objective and we have a right to question the claims, deny, and just outright ignore, the latter which is what I've been doing. Harsh much but Hamas did not go into the 48 territories so they can butcher as many israelis they can. October 7th was an operation with a purpose.

This is going to sound insane, yet something that palestinians know, that without hamas israel would have been able to conquer gaza in a week. With hamas they have been pushed to negotiate. "Are you serious while their actions pushed israel to commit this genocide in response" ISRAEL will always have a disproportionate response no matter how justified and so to blame Hamas for the now 14 thousand deaths of Gazans is disgusting when we know that israel doesn't need an alibi. Israel's rationale for completely decimating gaza is to force the ppl to give up Hamas (hence the leaflets promising an award to those that give the IOF information regarding Al Qassams whereabouts) and to force such a hopelessness and catastrophe that instills a sense of disbelief in armed resistance.

Except that won't work, and we know why it won't work because as Hanan Ashrawi recently pointed out that Hamas is not just Gaza's militants but also "a women's movement, a student movement. It is part of the very fabric of Palestinian life. How are they going to remove it, excuse me? Are they going to kill all these people? And are they going to undermine Hamas in their own people's eyes? No."]

[And still at the end of this essay you're convinced I am not understanding you and angry that I am not at least saying that they committed acts of terrorism I can only respond that armed rebellion from a people who will never be able to be on an equal playing level will involve acts of terrorism. It's something the PLO was very much known for before giving up their arms and betraying us in the process. "They should have only attacked soldiers" i am entirely unconvinced that would have changed Israel's response and...they mostly did attack and capture soldiers and invaded military bases. Terrorism to the israeli population has shattered notions of security, a wake up call "you are not safe on stolen land no matter who you are." I've seen enough of the israeli publics reaction and the discord of late and in the past years to know this

The idea that we can distinguish palestinian terrorism and armed rebellion is strange to me and it's entirely fiction to distinguish Hamas as nothing other than a terrorist organization and not a real liberation movement when its made up of palestinians who survived the bombing campaigns in the previous years and the kids being pulled out of the rubble today will fill their ranks in the years to come. And I see that and I love them with all my hear because they are as brave as the journalists and medics in Gaza and yet the most dehumanized.]

[Francesca Albanese, Special Rapporteur on the OPT, said as much in a recent press conference that and has also said "unlawful act of resistance does not make the resistance unlawful" and I take issue with unlawful and who she's appeasing but it's true in a legal sense and is much better interpretation than this idea that October 7th negates the right to Palestinian resistance until a "morally better" alternative arises.

Israel historically releases Palestinian prisoners in response to armed groups taking their citizens as hostages. This is fact, and armed groups in palestine will continue this practice no matter how "distasteful" it is to you until it no longer is useful and they find another way to gain an upper hand.

I'm sick of moral conjectures and discussions about the fruitlessness of armed rebellion and actors like Hamas as if we are in a place where there are alternatives.]

if you see this post about the so-called dangers of conflating hamas with other political parties in palestine:

do know that op hid an addition by an actual palestinian and turned off reblogs

[nickyhemmick]

Hi, be careful what information you post on the conflict as it’s not as one sided as you’re making it out to be. Israel is being attacked as well. I’m not saying everything Israel is doing is correct, by no means is that true. But innocent people are getting hurt on both sides and that’s not okay. A lot of the posts I’ve seen have just been thinly valid antisemitism, so be careful the ones you reblog as well. You can be anti Israel without being vitriolic to the innocent people who live there. Palestine is not as innocent as everyone claims they are, but they don’t deserve to be kicked out of there homes either. Israel is complicated but innocents don’t deserve to be killed either. A lot of people post about Palestine blindly, I just encourage you to look into both sides a bit more and not make it out to be a situation with one right answer. If it was then this problem would have been solved a long time ago.

~ A Very Stressed American Jew

blah blah blah both sides blah blah blah Palestine isn’t innocent blah blah.

For the stuff about anti-semitism: yeah I agree. People can be posting things that are anti Semitic while pretending to be anti-Israel. I’ve reblogged stuff abt that fact, too. And I always try to make sure what I’m reblogging is talking abt Israel’s cruelty and doesn’t mention anything anti-Semitic. If you see something that I’ve reblogged and you feel it’s anti-Semitic, then let me know.

Second of all: the only 2 sides there are is the oppressor and the oppressed. Palestinians are the fucking oppressed, and I say this as a Palestinian (and an American!) If you want to see how “complicated” this problem is then go onto Twitter and watch the videos Palestinians are sharing and THEN tell me we aren’t innocent. Like bro, throwing rocks or rockets in SELF DEFENSE is 1000000% justified and something I will always defend. Don’t go to Israeli media (which, anyway, doesn’t mind showing you the gang beat-ups of Palestinians lol)

Also, while you are saying there are Israeli citizens that are innocent (which yes, 100% true) you seem to ignore the Israeli citizens out in the streets calling for lynching of Palestinians, entering homes to kill fathers in front of their children, raping the women, forcing themselves into Palestinian homes, and calling for the death of all Arabs, all with the help of the IDF and police. Don’t fucking tell me the citizens are all innocent, many of them are part of this and have been for generations. They are just as complicit as their government in this. I don’t care if they were brainwashed into all the hate they feel, they still are out there adding more fire to the problems. (And NO, I am not referring to IDF soldiers who are forced into duty in this).

The US has brainwashed you into thinking that Palestinians are horrible, that there are two equal sides, that it is a very complicated mind-boggling situation that can’t be solved! That’s all false. I implore you to look at Palestinan sources, both videos, pictures and websites like decolonizepalestine dot com. You already have some awareness of the reality from your ask, but you telling me there’s “both sides” is telling me you have some more work to do. This has been a 73 year old war. Simple. Israel, when attacked, has the Iron Dome, their citizens have bomb shelters, they have a million other protections Palestinians don’t. Palestinians, when attacked, have none of that. They suffer. They die. They get raped. We always pay the larger cost in whatever rocket fire is expelled. Netanyahu said he will bomb Gaza until there is silence. Yeah, that totally sounds like a complicated situation!

No. That simply won’t do. And if you do want to do your readings, do not read Zionist powered publications like the New York Times and the New York post and the like. I repeat that I agree that there is a lot of anti-Semitism in anti-Israel posts, but none of my posts have reflected that, and if they have let me know and I will take them down. This isn’t a religious matter and I understand that, there are Palestinian Jewish ppl as well! They are also suffering under this racist colonial rule

But Palestinians are innocent. We are. We one MILLION percent are. Just because we are fighting back after generations of colonialism, abuse, murder and rape doesn’t make us any less innocent. It makes us fucking fighters for our rights, because a lot of people don’t give a fuck about us and haven’t for 7 decades. Don’t forget that Israel is the instigator of the violence, all the way from 1948. Israel is being attacked because we’re fed up, and it’s not like we’re making much damage anyway, so don’t try to make it out to be that there are both sides that are equal here. Because that isn’t true.