#like the gai bal manda was literally RIGHT THERE

[eggdrawsthings]

im not sure what we're really expecting from the show at this point with all the human only mandos, the talk of mandalorian "bloodlines," no mention of the resol'nare, and no mando'a. it's just neat armor and neat scenarios. i guess that's all it has to be, but i gotta confess i for one feel cheated

the things we could've had

i thank @/hellikait on Twitter for this. Idk what canon is, this was what happened in s3 to me :')

[effdragonkiller]

Jetii as an insult and why it might not be so bad.

I read this post by kaasknot last night and it literally consumed my brain.

It's an excellent examination of the linguistic quirk that differentiates Mando'ade from Jetii and why that might be.

Except, I had a seriously hard time dealing with the ramifications of Jetii being a slur. Because kaasknot was right, the vast majority of fanfiction that ships a Mando with a Jedi is going to be pulling their Mando'a from mandoa.org without any context. The implications it left for fandom were uncomfortable. So, I'm writing an argument why 'ner Jetii' as an endearment is okay.      1- I mean so long as you ignore that it's like calling your significant other by their political or religious affiliation. So, calling someone 'my Buddhist'.

1) The -ii suffix in Jetii is probably from the word aruetii, meaning traitor, foreigner, outsider. But instead of focusing on the definition as traitor, I would like to use it for outsider, because here's what I think: Mando'ade are a clan based people who have a habit of holding themselves distinct from the rest of the galaxy. This isn't rare, the Jedi do this as well, but consider the additional evidence of the civil war between the traditionalists and the New Mandalorians.

There's a lot of evidence that culturally, Mando'ade aren't good at seeing other perspectives. The New Mandalorians tend to look down on anyone who follows the old ways and the traditionalist tend to see the pacifists as having given up everything that made them Mando'ade. In fact, the adoption rite for Mando'ade is called the 'gai bal manda' which literally means the 'name and soul'. Implying that by not being Mando'ade that you don't have a soul.

That's some next level othering, right there. Not uncommon in human history; there is a large body of evidence that supports the fact that many tribes and clans in human history are only known by what other people call them. There own labels for themselves often something like ‘the people’. This is the same difference between Mandalorian and Mando'ade in canon. I don't think that there's any evidence to contradict the idea that the only people Mando'ade might refer to as 'the people of' are themselves.

2) kaasknot talked about how 'traat'ad' might be a less insulting term than Jetii, but I have some objections.    1- I think that the Jedi would be more uncomfortable being called the children of the force than being labelled an outsider. The Jedi are outsiders. They know, understand, and perpetuate their status as outsiders so that they can more effectively work as a neutral authority. But in Mando'a the 'traat' in 'traat'ad' comes from the same term used in special forces, squad, and army. The force denoting physical violence, and I think that Jedi, who hated being Generals and who praised those who could come to a non-violent solution, would shudder at being called 'traat'ad'.   2- Regardless of whether the -ii suffix is insulting or not, Jetii is closest to what the Jedi call themselves. There is more respect in trying to say the right word with the wrong accent than calling an entire group of people something else.        A- Let's not even get into the fact that 'Egypt' is 110% the wrong name for the country with the ancient pyramids and why, in an era of being politically correct and emotionally inclusive, has it not been changed?!?

3) Language changes, and different words mean different things to different people. There are a lot of excellent examples of this in English. Chuffed, for example, means two completely contradictory things at the exact same time. And to be gay originally meant to be happy, merry, and joyful. It had nothing to do with sexual orientation the way it does now.

Linguistic drift happens in real languages. It's not even particularly rare. If Jetii was originally a slur against the Jedi formed from over a thousand years of conflict between Jedi and Mando'ade, that doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Additionally, context is also important, because while the Clone Troopers are raised with the Resol'nare as much as possible they aren't actually Mando'ade. They were created by Jango Fett as part of a plot against the Jedi by the Sith and were trained to revere the Jedi who would lead them into battle. That is an enormously different context than almost anyone else saying the term in canon.

So in summary, basically, if you want to use 'ner Jetii' as a term of endearment, go for it. Just, you know, maybe think about the fact that it's like calling someone 'my Buddhist'.

- In case you got this far, no I don't have footnotes or references. Yes, I know this is bad essay-form. 

I made a lot of assumptions in this about canon or based on evidence from what is now the Legends universe and therefore no longer strictly canon... I don't really want to hear anything about it.

If you have made it all the way to the end and still haven't read kaasknot’s much more well written post on Jetii as an insult, it can be found here.

[izzyovercoffee]

psssst water ur thoughts about being adopted into mando culture bc like i need a way for davi to be adopted but like i doubt they have any parental figures to speak of??????

ADOPTION IS ONE OF MY FAVE TOPICS !!!

There’s so much potential there for anyone to find acceptance—and the healing power of having a society built on validating autonomy, on cutting off ties of abuse while simultaneously vindicating found families. Genuinely, not superficially like it’s done in our society today. 

To mandalorians, there is no “biological vs adopted” comparison. There are no questions of “but do they really love me” or “would they drop me over their bio [family member of equal standing]” — the answer is they are all, truly, equal. Adoption is not even remotely less legitimate.

And luckily, for mandalorians and would-be mandalorians, adoption isn’t always about parent-to-child figures, though that’s obviously the most focused on and most developed. 

So, first, the adoption vow that’s the most easily accessible:

Ni kyr'tayl gai sa’ad — I know [your] name as [my] child.

Literally translated, it’s more like “I hold in my heart [your] name as [my] child.” And then the person’s name is recited, either before the vow or after, it doesn’t matter — but the name must be said aloud. 

Example: 

“Boss. Ni kyr’tayl gai sa’ad.” Boss, I hold in my heart your name as my child.“Ni kyr’tayl gai sa’buir, Yain.” I hold in my heart you name as my mother, Yain.

There are other ways to adopt, other vows and so on, but this is, like I said, the easiest accessible phrase if you look on the mandoa dictionary or wiki.

The words for “your” and “my” are inferred, not actually present there. Also keep in mind that that vow is considered legally binding. There’s a long discussion on whether “kyr’tayl” is a misspelling of “kar’tayl” or intentional, but I think we can leave that for another post (I argued intentional but that’s a long explanation). 

Here’s the thing: just like children can divorce abusive parents, children can also adopt parents, too. People, in general, can adopt other people as different members of their family — so long as everyone involved is fully informed and able to consent and expressed consent to be adopted.

So, let’s say … Davi does not really have any parental figure to speak of. What about mando siblings? 

Ni kyr’tayl gai sa’vod. — I know your name as my sibling. 

Adoptions aren’t restricted to parent-child, and tbh I can imagine aunt/uncle-niece/nephew bond, or even grandparent-grandchild, and so on. Cousin-cousin are still, generally, regarded as sibling-sibling unless context calls for it.

Example:

“Ni kyr’tayl gai sa’vod, Demala.” I know your name as my sister, Demala.“Fixer, ni kyr’tayl gai sa’vod.” Fixer, I know your name as my brother.

I think you get the drift. 

aunt/uncle: ba’vodu — niece/nephew: vu’ad (approx, since there’s no word)

grandparent: ba’buir — grandchild: bu’ad 

Cousin would still be vod.

Other phrases related to adoption vows:

gai bal manda — name and soul

kir’manir — adopt, give a soul

Example: 

“Davi, ni kir’mani gai bal manda.” Davi, I give to you name and soul. 

One could conceivably adopt another person as mandalorian without tying them into family, clan, or house, though this is a lot less common — especially when mandalorians, as a society, are very much community-oriented.

In my opinion, the way mandalorians see soul (since it comes up often when it comes to adoption) … it’s not necessarily that those who aren’t mandalorian don’t have souls (though some extremists and xenophobic mandalorians do absolutely act and think this way, don’t get me wrong), but rather that non-mandalorians, outsiders, do not share the “mandalorian soul,” which is an altogether entirely different concept. So to adopt someone into the culture is to figuratively adopt their soul as mandalorian. 

IMO this makes in-universe cultural appropriation difficult / next to impossible lmao but anyway 

But I digress, that’s another discussion for another time.

Bear in mind, also, that marriage does not necessarily make someone mando, either. I’ve seen marriages that take it for granted, as if marriage requires an implicit consent to conversion, and I’m going to say it right now: it does not. Non-mandalorians can marry mandalorians and not have to “become” mandalorian, and it may be … difficult, but it’s not impossible, depending on the views of the family / clan / house.

Not that I’m suggesting Davi marry, lmao. I’m just … putting that out there, in the event that was a question that might come up.

Anyway, hopefully this gives you some ideas?