#like sansa herself

[catofoldstones]

Maybe the reason Sansa comes off as a meek doormat while she’s married to Tyrion is not because she’s a red pilled tradwife, it’s because she’s scared of getting caught for planning her own escape. It’s established within the first few paragraphs of Tyrion’s pov after the wedding that that’s a terrified 12 year old prisoner of war child bride who’s fooling a whole, grown husband and the entire red keep that she’s a little too devotional and absolutely not plotting her freedom in a fortress full of spies, soldiers and noble powerhouses, that too successfully. She’s not concerned that Tyrion’s peas are overcooked, she’s deliberately trying to put up an act so that her cover isn’t blown. She’s outsmarted Tyrion Lannister of all people, and you can die mad about it.

[midnightin]

The amount of superiority I feel when I remember how I’ve never hated on Sansa for being a child at the beginning of GOT. Yep. That’s right. I’m better than all of you, you fucking walnuts.

[leupagus]

Really enjoying writing Book 2/Season 6 of this monstrosity, where instead of having Sansa and Jon fighting to regain Winterfell and all that nonsense with the "Battle of the Bastards," it's gonna be like 10K of Sansa being the Warden of the North equivalent of that mom who just needs FIVE MINUTES OF PEACE AND QUIET YOU GODDAMN KIDS

To the Lord Robin Arryn, Defender of the Vale and Warden of the East, and my Dear Cousin,

I write to you from Wint

"Sansa — sorry, Lady Sansa, you'll never believe—"

"Jeyne, you don't have to call me 'Lady Sansa,'" Sansa said as she looked up from her parchment. "You're the steward of Winterfell now."

Jeyne Poole, hanging onto the handle of the door and swinging it absently back and forth like she'd done back when they were ten years old, frowned. "My da always said the Lord and Lady of Winterfell were worthy of respect."

Sansa leaned back in her chair. Father had dealt with the business of the holdfast in the Library Tower, so he could wrestle with the accounts without being interrupted every twenty minutes. Sansa had always thought that a bit unfair, since it meant you had to climb all those stairs just to find him, but now she was wondering if she could perhaps build the tower twenty or thirty feet higher. The exercise would probably do her good. "Your father always called mine 'oi, you,' if I recall correctly."

The look Jeyne gave her was deeply unimpressed. "Aye, and you always complained about it. Do you want to hear about the cow loose in the guest house or not?"

erfell at last, which was the dearest wish of your beloved goodfather Petyr. His dying words were to express the hope that both his goodson and his niece be safe and secure in their homes, and I am glad to say tha

"Lady Sansa, Master Mikken has refused another dozen apprentices. He said they're all 'knuckleheaded clods who wouldn't know a round ball fuller from a chisel punch." This time it was her master-at-arms, who'd been Rodrick Cassel's round-faced child named Beth when Sansa had left. Now he went by Cass and looked like he could wrestle a (very short) bear if needs be.

"I don't know a round ball fuller from a chisel punch," Sansa replied, frowning.

Cass shrugged. "Well, and nor do I. But that's near fifty lads he's turned away. We need someone helping with the forges. We've been making do with the army smiths that Prince Stannis let us—"

"Prince Stannis?" He was going to hate that.

Another shrug. "We've got to call him something, milady. You won't call him 'king,' nor will any of your bannermen, but his soldiers give us no end of trouble when we call him 'lord.' So 'prince' it is. And he is one, too, ain't he? King Robert's brother. That'd make him a prince, right?"

Sansa answered with a shrug of her own. By the time Stannis and his companies returned from the Dreadfort, everyone in the North would likely have settled on Prince Stannis, which would lead to a great deal of shouting and probably threats of lighting people on fire, but she had at least a fortnight to think of something.

"As I was saying, we can't use the Baratheon smiths forever, and the ones from our bannermen have all gone home with their bannermen. Mikken needs apprentices, and we need our forge at full strength."

"All right, let's go speak with him," Sansa sighed.

t through the goodness of Stannis, of House Baratheon, and his masterful command of the armies of the North and the Stormlands, I am now secure as Warden of the North.

Not only that, but your dear cousin, my brother Rickon has somehow survived all the danger that the North has presented, while it was under the thrall of the Ironborn and House Bolton. He is now safe and I will reu

"My lady?" Maester Wolkan peered his head into the room.

[hewantshisbrideback]

"M'lady? You look sad. Are you thinking of your sister?" The dwarf patted her on the hand. "The Crone will light your way to her, never fear. The Maiden will keep her safe."

"I pray that you are right."

Brienne II, A Feast for Crows

[whitedragonwolf4961]

You know I remembered something from Battle of the Bastards. Show Sansa was smirking as the Knights of the Vale destroyed Ramsay’s army. Smirking that is until she saw Jon alive. Then her smirk turned into a frown. Why? Shouldn’t she be happy that she arrived just in time to save her brother? Except… she didn’t tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale even though she kept insisting they need more men. And now she’s frowning seeing Jon alive. Why? What if it’s because she was hoping that he would die in the Battle, leaving her to get all the glory for herself? She already gave up on Rickon and didn’t seem bothered that he died. But she sure looked unhappy seeing Jon alive. Why? Well I now think it’s perhaps because she was hoping he would die too and that would leave her the only one around to get all the credit and glory for herself. If this is true… then she only saw Jon as a tool and was hoping he could be discarded. Imagine if I tell a Jonsa this. That Sansa only saw Jon as a tool and she was upset to see that he survived the battle and thus she wouldn’t get all the credit for winning.

[essektheylyss]

Rereading Game of Thrones for the first time since high school is wild, because most of what I remember from my friend group all reading them was which characters the boys made fun of, namely Sansa and Bran and Catelyn, and the girls defending them, and now I'm like, I knew we were correct even if we were partially being spitefully contrarian for the sake of it but it is really apparent in retrospect how correct we were.

[a-chaotic-dumbass]

fascinated by how the asoiaf fandom refuses to have any nuance in the books that r entirely based on different perspectives

[g0lightly]

probably the best evidence i have for the idea that sansa will be a queen in some capacity by the time the asoiaf series ends is the fact that westeros has never had a canon-confirmed redheaded queen and i just don't think that george rr martin (both r's stand for "redhead appreciator" btw) would do that unless he was going to make a redhead queen in the books

[pygian-weapon]

my unpopular (for a sansa stan) opinion is that I don't think we're getting a Lady of Winterfell arc like the show did

[mkstrigidae]

Apparently, the solution to my APWH writer's block was just opening up a new word document and rewriting the whole damn next chapter.

[aerithisms]

people constantly lament all the cut and altered plot lines from game of thrones the show and they're right but i think one of its worst sins was omitting cersei's gender swag

[averageestrogenenjoyer]

Brienne of Frickin' Tarth!!!! best girl!! best girl brienne!!!!

Oh my god oh my god oh my god but thinking about Brienne and how she didn’t reject her femininity by choice but everyone else rejected it for her because she wasn’t conventionally attractive so the only role she felt she could fit in to in society’s eyes was that of a warrior and how she was in love with Renly because he was nice to her and danced with her and treated her how all the other girls her age were treated even if it was just for a night and how she never feels like she fits in as a woman because she’s ugly but she never fits in as a man because she isn’t a man but she can’t go back now that she knows what its like to be free from those constraints but there is still a small part of her that wonders what it would be like if maybe, just maybe… and I just… George had absolutely no right to write a character that good

[a-chaotic-dumbass]

If saera has a million haters I'm one of them. If she has one hater it's me. If she has 0 haters I have died. If the world is against saera I am with the world, if the world is for saera I am against the world.

[g0lightly]

Arya according to ASOIAF canon:

Arya according to a certain subset of her stans and, for some reason as of late, targ nation types:

[melrosing]

why did martin made cersei evil from the beginning? tyrion and jaime are very fucked up but they still have some kindness and empathy in them. at age 7 she was torturing baby tyrion by pulling on his genitals and threatening the wet nurse her tongue would be cut out. she killed her friend at age 10. having all these negative traits baked in from the beginning makes her more flat for me. plus martin made her stupid and mockable. she has zero self awareness. she is dishonest with herself. even d&d had more respect for her. do you think cersei is a sociopath? i think martin doesn't like her. do you agree with me?

ok you pose several arguments here but I will try and reply as entirely as I can.

why did martin made cersei evil from the beginning?

I've questioned this choice sometimes but I don't think it was necessarily the wrong one?? the scene with baby Tyrion is to me a deeply disturbing but still very interesting one that says a lot about Cersei, her relationship with Tywin, and the greater part she's played in shaping her relationship with Tyrion.

here, she has obviously very quickly absorbed Tywin's 'the baby killed Joanna' narrative, and is punishing Tyrion in a manner that's like. both childish and horribly violent at once, like she doesn't fully understand how violence is usually applied (pinching is a really childish form of violence in my mind), but she knows how to make it hurt.

then there's also the fact that perhaps Tyrion now represents a rival to second place - her status over him is that she's able-bodied, but his over her is his sex. maybe Cersei has some vague understanding of this at seven, and that's another part of why she hurts Tyrion is this extremely particular way.

and also like. Tywin is ultimately a man of extreme violence, and Cersei has always been listening at the door trying to learn from him. it makes sense that she'd be trying to apply his teachings where she sees fit, and that this would result in disturbed behaviour like what she does to Tyrion. I think it's also interesting that we can distinguish this from what Joffrey does to the cat, for example. there's a kind of obliviousness to that act of violence in Joffrey's early childhood (making more the case for nature over nurture, though nurture plays its part). Cersei's childhood violence is a lot more intentional: it feels like she's trying to exercise power of her own, and that is very much fitting with adult Cersei's story.

however, I think Cersei herself identifies the Melara incident as something of an outlier in her childhood. I don't say this to suggest that Cersei was not a very violent child, but that she didn't do it out of pure evil. I think the key factor driving Cersei to do what she does to Melara is a fear for her own mortality - Melara points out that if noone talks of Maggy's prophecy, it needn't be true, and so Cersei kills the only other person who knows of it (besides Maggy). I do think spite towards Melara for yearning for Jaime factored insofar as this helps Cersei build just enough spite towards Melara that she's able to do what she does, but it is primarily an act of self-preservation, I think. I think many evil acts of Cersei's are self-preservation, though taken way past the line of what's justifiable to that end.

and ofc, Cersei as an adult feels some level of guilt about what she did to Melara. it does fuck with her a bit. I think the main reason is that Melara was a friend and confidante for a time, someone who she could have held close but instead cast out (same as how she briefly reflects on Sansa and how she might have done better by her). so..... again, it does come down to self-preservation in the end, but I don't think Cersei was a two-dimensional evil kid. you can find the sense in her reasoning, which is pretty absent in what Joffrey does to the cat.

tyrion and jaime are very fucked up but they still have some kindness and empathy in them.

i personally find the cersei/her brothers dichotomies kind of frustrating cos like. not every character needs the traits of empathy and kindness. Cersei is not the only character in ASOIAF who lacks these traits. Littlefinger, Euron, Roose, Ramsay, Tywin himself, etc, all lack these traits, and yet are not afforded anything close to complexity Cersei is. she is the only POV character among these villains. and whilst I do think that the whiplash between Cersei's occasionally-played-for-laughs foolishness and her sexual trauma is sometimes verging on ill-judged, fandom should take more accountability for the extent to which they relegate Cersei to dark comic relief. she was not written as this.

and as I've said before, whilst I do think it's notable that Cersei is our primary female villain yet written as often foolish and ridiculed as such, yet male villains comparably tend to be much savvier, it still makes sense that Cersei would lack these smarts: she wasn't taught them. still, sure, to some extent I agree that GRRM should not have played this for laughs so often.

returning again to Cersei lacking empathy etc - well, you have other characters who lack evil. Brienne hasn't really got a gram of darkness in her body, yet is enormously complex in other ways. then you've got characters like Asha, who have more of a balance of the two, and yet aren't even half as complex as Cersei (despite being a POV). GRRM has not refused Cersei complexity, and he has not written her, on his own part, without empathy. we see Cersei grieve, we see Cersei traumatised, we see Cersei frightened, we see Cersei humiliated. again, as I've said before, GRRM makes us hold Cersei's cruelty in the one hand, and Cersei's pain in the other, and reckon with both at once. neither excuses the other, as they might in a lesser story - like Game of Thrones!

and i'm not going to go deep into GOT right now, but I don't agree that d&d had more respect for Cersei as a character. d&d cannot conceive of Cersei as anything besides a mother. they reduce everything about her to motherhood, and when she runs out of children, they stick another one in her. they cannot imagine what might drive a character like Cersei beyond motherhood. it is essentially the final note of her story - 'I don't want our baby to die' etc. i don't think i need to say much more to explain that I think reducing a character like book Cersei to this, is deeply misogynistic. if you want to see that misogyny in action elsewhere, see how the finale ultimately frames a dichotomy between the childless Dany, a freak tyrant, and the pregnant mother Cersei, who the writers think we'll want to escape to Pentos to survive with her baby, and who we're supposed to weep for when she doesn't make it out. and now remember what happened like. one episode before with Missandei, the last black woman on this show. d&d couldn't respect a woman if their lives depended on it

do you think cersei is a sociopath?

GRRM says she has an 'almost sociopathic' view of the world, but obviously shies away from identifying her as such, and I think he's right to - these kinds of labels are far too prescriptive when what you're trying to write is a character in a book, not an article for a medical journal.

do you agree with me?

nah not really. ultimately I think whilst Cersei is written as unabashedly evil, this doesn't mean that that evil is two dimensional. she exists on the darkest end of the spectrum because I think that is the most interesting place for her to occupy - I don't believe Cersei's story would be improved with a redemption arc, or a couple of instances where she sneaks Sansa a sweet or w/e. grey characters are interesting, yeah, but they are not invariably more interesting than those in the darkest shades, and I don't think GRRM has done Cersei an injustice by not painting her lighter.

[mkstrigidae]

GOD the APWH chapter I'm writing right now has me actually sobbing as I write it this is going to be such a shitshow