#like if a dad is mean in canon he is overall abusive in fanon

[usernamesuggestionsarefunny]

“Fanon enjoyers don't like canon, they only like watered-down, bastardized, and

Woobified characters and headcanons that are safer and sanitized” - some comment I read

[spngirlpolls]

Would you consider Bobby a bad father? (I mean for the record imo even tho he's textual understood to be a father Figure I never get the sense that the boys are his responsibility even in the time when he would want that do he's like. An uncle at best. But yeah I'm rlly curious how u think Bobby fits into that bad dad paradigm

good question, long post sorry.

yeah the show loved to retcon how involved bobby was in the winchester childhood. s1 they're like "he's the only hunter we know and he babysat sometimes" and by his death in s7 bobby's like "i raised them!" i think he acts as a father figure/mentor in their adult lives but questionably so in their actual childhoods, i think we conflate fanon/canon there a lot.

regardless, i think the show's overall argument for bobby is he is a rare "good" father exception because he has broken the cycle of abuse. his father was abusive, bobby actively chose not to have kids as to avoid perpetuating the cycle.

bobby acts as an anti-john, someone who lived through a similar tragedy and chose a different path. john pushes people away, acts alone, which ultimately puts people in danger (harvelles, his own kids, etc) while bobby uses what he's learn to build a community: he's running the phone scams, he's operating a backwoods occult library, he's checking in on people.

(there's other misc messy character things like ghost bobby, bobby being in hell?? etc but overall the idea is that he's the glue of the community)

so yes, the show posits he is supposed to be a good father. i think there's some wonky advice/character stuff but within the supernatural mythos bobby is what passes for a good father, perchance the best example of "fatherhood". or maybe more accurately, bobby is the only character that is even capable of potentially being a good father bc he has broken the cycle of abuse, regardless of how good is parenting actually is. john (and sam and dean and all the other bad fathers) are incapable of being good fathers (in the rules of the supernatural writer's room) because they literally never break the holding pattern of abuse in their tragic fucked up lives. that's the crux of the supernatural story IMO, whether that's morally right/wrong or even interesting, that's the question the story is structured around for all 15 seasons: am i my father am i my father am i my father.

(as an aside) notably, when bobby dies, the winchesters don't take up the mantle of being pillars of the community. they don't run the phones or make sure ppl come back from hunts. they totally abandon that part of bobby's legacy, the most important part of his character, his literal life's work. garth is the one that carries that torch. salmondean never really make themselves part of the community, even though it would make sense for sam to be doing that while dean is in purgatory. they live in monster hunters HQ and they don't share those books or tools or anything with ANYONE. at no point does any grief or trauma sam and dean endure prompt them to cultivate community, which is very john, which is repeating the cycle.

[nostalgia-tblr]

re: my seemingly fringe "I don't think we're meant to think Odin was a dreadful cunt" take, when was Thor 1 actually made? Like... 2010/2011? Because I think Odin is (presumably based on comics canon) meant to be "a bit distant but overall good as a parent" but 2010ish is well after the recent (historically recent, by which I mean since maybe the 1980s) shift in our culture's ideas about fatherhood and what make "a good dad" as well as similarly radical shifts in how we approach disciplining children. MCU!Odin is therefore odd because he's a couple of generations out if he's meant to convince the audience that he's A Good Dad or even an acceptable one. Even the people making the film can't have (all) thought he was any good so with this in mind I'm more open to the idea that Odin is meant to be fairly shit. (But not entirely, and certainly not to the point of him being evil - he's doing his best and arguably the issue isn't him but the culture they've all been born into.)

IDK how old the writer was but there could be an intentional generation-gap thing going on there? An "everyone thinks this is acceptable and even good parenting, but it isn't and everyone involved is getting messed up by it." You don't have to go that far back historically before failing to show regular affection to your kids wouldn't be seen as a significant flaw in a father (whereas it absolutely would be in a mother - v interesting that as the status of women in our society has increased our idea of a good dad has shifted significantly towards an ideal that would previously have been considered "maternal" and thus "unmanly." Oh hey, looks like patriarchy is bad for men too!)

I still think a lot of fanon and fanfic overstates it (which is fine until we're at the point of inventing obviously abusive behaviour and then seemingly forgetting that we made that up), and that Odin is at least meant to be 'doing his best' but yeah Them Thor Films must surely be aware that his best is nowhere near Actually Good, yeah? I mean unless they were written by a man who lives in the 1950s, which they probably weren't. (There is absolutely some generational variation in how far the social change has taken hold but you'd have to look for a long time before you'd find a man of any age who'd say "I really wish my father had been more reserved and had spent less quality time with me" rather than wistfully expressing the opposite of that.)

[bitimdrake]

Rounding up my old analysis posts for reference. I read comics chronologically. I made a google doc with my reading order.

General tags for:

all my dc posts

comic reference

canon vs fanon

all dc meta (mine & other's)

timeline specific

⭐ fic recs

Timelines, Reading Orders & Comic Recs:

Recommendations for comics to buy

Post-Crisis Batfamily timeline

✨ Post-Crisis Batkid Canon Ages/Age Differences ✨

Post-Crisis Dick Grayson timeline

Comic recs for Dick Grayson

Post-Crisis, post-resurrection Jason reading order/timeline

Post-Crisis Stephanie Brown timeline & reading order

Infinite Crisis breakdown

First pass at a timeline of New 52 Batfamily backstory and ages

(Teen) Titans Reading Order & Guide

Young Justice Reading Order

General Bat Things

Fanon vs canon

What do the Bats call each other?

Dead Robins Club

Who made the Bat-naming scheme?

Batkids calling (or not calling) Bruce dad

Alfred is flawed

Other relatives of the batfam

The Killing Joke is bad but Oracle’s origin isn’t

Which bats can cook?

Wealth =/= Fame

[batkid-specific meta, bruce is abusive, and non-bat meta below]

Cass, Dick, Tim, Jason...

Gifted kid Cassandra Cain

Was Dick welcoming to Cass and Steph?

That time Dick killed the Joker & Bruce resuscitated him

Design of the Nightwing suit

Dick would save villain’s lives

Dick & Tim are similar

Introvert Dick / Slight extrovert Tim

Dick with Jason -> Dick with Tim

Tim's relationships with Damian, Jason, and Cass (ft comic recs)

How do Tim & Bruce go from War Games to adoption?

bonus: Tim & Bruce never talk about their issues

Jack Drake

Tim's canonical childhood

bonus: Tim didn't take pictures of Batman and Robin

Tim Drake, the relatable one

Is Tim a serial cheater? (i.e. actually, he's a terrible boyfriend in other ways)

What are Tim’s insecurities?

Tim not meaning to be a vigilante forever

Did Tim rescue Bruce from time single-handedly? (no, others helped)

Tim and school

When did Babs learn Tim’s identity?

Steph and Babs aren’t Bruce’s kids

The moral high ground of Under the Hood

Does Jason hurt kids?

The Lazarus Pit’s influence on Jason

Should Jason have a autopsy scar? (no)

Let Jason be contradictory

New 52 Jason is boring okay

Bruce is a bad parent guys

Bruce is an abusive parent

and expanding on examples of taking it out of context

and following up on why i say “realistic”

Bruce being abusive in grief

Different abuse for different kids

And more on Jason and Cass

And Bruce’s treatment of Stephanie

Bruce’s looping character arc

Bruce before and after Dick left

Making Jason’s death about himself

Non-Bat miscellany

Listen to my unpopular but Correct opinions about Clark and Kon (and maybe listen to them again)

How Cyborg became a planet

What color is the Lazarus Pit?

Side effects of the Lazarus Pit

Superhero identities overall

ideas and AUs and theorizing

What if Tim died like Jason?

What if Dick did die in Infinite Crisis?

and then what if Tim became Batman (and it was bad)

What if Tim died in Red Robin #12

[cool-island-songs]

twenny for the ship bingo!!

Sorry this took so long! Thank you for the opportunity to sell ppl on my version of Twenny lol

I’m stubborn Creek trash, but I’m cool w/ Twenny and always at least check it out. Seems there are more (and darker) Twenny fics now bc of the drug connection between their families. I tend to prefer angsty Twenny fics where Tweek is still crazy about Craig but something’s preventing them from being together. I like fwb and platonic Twenny best, but I think it’s a rly interesting dynamic overall and am interested to see how it’s developed when romantic on one or both sides.

Kenny’s often used in fics as a vehicle to make people jealous (e.g., Stan and Craig in endgame Style and Creek fics, respectively). It seems a bit unfair to Kenny, but I read all of these nonetheless (and he often doesn’t seem to mind). I don’t entirely agree w/ fanon consensus about “slut” Kenny. That he’ll do anything for money is more of a crack at his poverty - it’s not like he wanted to blow Howard Stern. He obviously rly wants that bj from Tammy, but they’re already dating when he finds out she’s done it before. He doesn’t even take an active role there, as it only goes down after the Jonas bros main plot concludes and she proposes it. I see him as willing to accept advances, but not as forward as he’s typically portrayed in fanon.

Fanon Kenny can get pretty rapey, and tbh I hate when he’s reduced to smoking cigs and liking sex in place of an actual personality. Dad-bodded eccentric philanthropist fishing uncle Kenny is so much cooler than all that (he gets bitches bc he’s cool, he isn’t cool bc he gets bitches, kno what i mean?). Given his canonical loyalty, I don’t see him as a cheater. He just wants to be loved and feel pleasure bc he didn’t have much of anything growing up. His Mysterion persona is the closest we get to him being a “bad boy”, which is the role he’s often slotted into in fanon, but he’s much more of a protective big brother and cynical but passionate pursuer of justice than some morally ambiguous anti-hero. Kenny’s good and goofy and sweet, and that can come across clearly in Twenny fics. He also likes a sweet and forward blonde, historically (Kelly, Tammy - her highlights are blond, it counts).

Tweek's more sheltered than Kenny and also more thoroughly emotionally abused and exploited. Kenny’s neglected all around, and his parents are generally not doing great, not able to provide - but he has his ways of coping and escaping. By contrast, Tweek’s family is upper middle class, and his parents could try to be loving and supportive but seem incapable of it. Tweek’s parents also mess w/ his perception of reality considerably while Kenny’s v aware of the reality of his situation. There’s some overlap in their situations, so I find Kenny seeing Tweek as a kind of little brother or alternate version of himself compelling. There’s something to be said for the way blond boys w/ awful home lives and messy hair are periodically slotted into the same role in the series, only to recede into the background. I love them all.

Here are some fics w/ Twenny dynamics I’ve loved:

Delmareve’s unfinished multi-chapter “your princess is in another castle” (main ships Bunny and Creek, but interesting platonic Twenny w/ brief scene where Kenny comes onto Tweek and Tweek shuts down. rly well-developed, unique Tweek w/ trust issues for a reason. Not entirely gay, top Tweek, and he’s not made any less anxious for it which I like)

Flynncantation’s unfinished multi-chapter Down the Rabbit Hole (Creek-centric, Kenny just has a crush on Tweek, but I love the dynamic)

metrophobic’s unfinished multi-chapter Tweeker Nation and related oneshot I Won’t Burn Long (interesting illicit fwb Twenny situation where Kenny has some romantic feelings for Tweek, but resents his bratty immaturity and seems on the verge of being done w/ him. Lotta interesting Kenny perspective on Creek + Tweek). also a few Kinktober drabbles w/ Twenny, this one being my favorite for the sheer SP-like absurdity. I like that metrophobic’s Tweek often has hang-ups about bottoming. Wouldn’t you if your whole town decided you were a bottom at age 10???

All the scarlettshazam Twenny tho it’s been deleted (found it v sex positive, love that 4 Kenny)

towards (likely still in process) multi-chapter Because headstones are not big enough. (Tweek remembers Kenny’s deaths and struggles heavily w/ addiction. rly interesting + dark. also throwing out mb my fave creek breakup angst fic despite it having nothing to do w/ Twenny: oneshot all good things)

Tweekpuncher’s unfinished multi-chapter Slowly, Through a Vector (potentially real upsetting past noncon, but also quite funny at times, such as in platonic Cryde interactions and grp chat w/ Bebe. i recommend it bc the last chapter from Kenny’s POV gave me a diff perspective on what he might see in Tweek and was v powerful). Also love the oneshot bro dont be gay bro just gimme a little kiss on the lips PBJellie Twenny: sad sexy oneshot Black Sheep, SoT oneshot You Best Not Miss, Major Boobage-style oneshot Fantasies Come True (these Twenny dynamics generally revolve around or at least allude to the drug connection) Eerily’s oneshot Bookmarks. Just read it, this one got my ass real good

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

*1/7* Nyxelestia's (& princeescaluswords) latest self insert victim blaming/abuse apologism - pro TP/Scott Mccall delirium "The fact that people claim Posey insulted or slammed on Sterek fans is one of the ways people twist him into something he’s not in order to justify hating him. Posey never called Sterek fans 'bizarre, weird or twisted'. Crystal Reed got asked 'Is Allison going to dress like a slut this season?'

*2/7* So it’s not just Posey watching himself get marginalized - it’s watching a friend of his get mistreated, too, and that’s on top of the overall show getting drowned in a fanon/crackship. And given how often Sterek fandom has overtaken everything else about the show, I don’t blame him for overtaking a single question that was directed at Tyler Hoechlin.

*3/7* All of this is accompanied by a long history of hatred of Scott - the main character of the show, and Posey’s character that was largely perpetuated by Sterek fandom. Things like not knowing TP’s the main character of his own show, claiming that the show is all about Stiles, people trying to remove Scott from his own story by claiming it’s really about Derek and that everything is from Stiles’ POV, erasing all of Scott’s character development…*4/7* All on top of a long history of erasing Derek’s abusive behavior while calling Scott a rapist and victim-blaming him. Calling Scott selfish for making tough decisions to save as many lives as possible, blaming Scott for Gerard’s villainy and making a choice to save as many people as possible while ignoring some of the Hale mens’ own actions, and erasing Scott scenes to paint him as putting Stiles and Derek in danger so he can spend time with his girlfriend

*5/7* For all that people claim Scott-stans and non-Sterek fans go into Sterek tags to bully them, most Sterek fans seem to have no idea just how much Sterek infects other fandoms/the rest of fandom. Yes, there were crazy fans from all ships sending hate to all the actors, for a variety of reasons. But a lot of people fail to realize the sheer scale of the Sterek fandom compared to all the rest of Teen Wolf fandom combined.

*6/7* …In conclusion, If my understanding of a ship was predominantly made up of people erasing me from my own TV show, saying I deserved to be raped and murdered, and making the rest of my friends uncomfortable or harassing them in the process? ‘Bizarre, twisted and weird’ would be the nicest way to say what I think of them. (In my case, it really is.)“

*7/7* Oh, she also called Hobrien “RPF Sterek”? Because of course Nyxie lives in her own little delusional AU in which TP’s unhealthy and creepy af unrequited obsession/affection/industry friendship/infatuation for Dylan O'Brien is ‘true love’ and Hobrien never EVER existed. Of course… Their “undeniable chemistry” is just not real, okay?! #SureJan

As always with Nyx, her little rants are fairly easy to unpack. 

Calling Sterek “bizarre, weird and twisted” is what now? A compliment to the people who like it? Fans were hurt. And the thing with other people being hurt, you don’t get to say “Oh, that never happened!” Their hurt did happen. Was it an overreaction? That’s not my place to judge, and it’s not Nyx’s either. 

Nyx fails to understand the history of Sterek. She fails to understand that the show was pro-Sterek, that the show runner was pro-Sterek, and that the PR was pro-Sterek. They encouraged the ship. They teased it becoming canon. 

Sterek isn’t just something that fandom created and exists in a vacuum. From the Daily Dot: 

But this isn’t just any slash pairing.

Ironically, fans had seen Sterek as a welcome change from the usual dismissal that slash fans usually get from their creative teams. Sterek is something of a historical first in a lot of ways, purely because Teen Wolfcreator Jeff Davis was so welcoming and supportive of the idea. Creators have a long history of viewing slash fans as weird, obsessive, creepy, or crazy. Davis saw them as passionate, creative, and loyal. With his blessing, the show embraced Sterek in numerous ways. O’Brien and Hoechlin filmed promos for the Teen Choice Awards together; MTV’s unprecedented Teen Wolf fanfic contest welcomed Sterek and other slash pairings. And in turn, the Sterek fandom rallied around Davis, creating a “campaign” to show love for the pairing and the show.

Re Crystal being asked if Allison is going to be dressed like a slut. What’s the point of this? That sometimes people ask stupid and offensive questions? That a question from some random fan in any way equals someone with authority (the star of the show) telling a vast number of fans that something is weird, twisted, bizarre and they’re watching the show for the wrong reason? There’s no equivalence there. 

Nyx is so proud of herself for pointing out that some people, people who casually scroll past Teen Wolf stuff, just don’t know that Stiles isn’t the main character, isn’t she? Just like how many of them don’t know Tyler Posey is a POC, probably. It proves popularity, which does not equate to erasure. Fuck, going by my dashboard there are only two characters in Shadowhunters. And funnily enough, neither of them is the main either. And if we go by Star Wars content, BB8 is the main character. (I will fight anyone who says BB8 isn’t, actually.) Sometimes he’s accompanied by his gay space dads though. 

Once again, @nyxelestia and @princeescaluswords are relying on purely anecdotal evidence. I think they’d find that by following few Sterek blogs and more pro-Scott blogs, their world view, or int his case their Tumblr view, would change. 

Because they can claim all they like that Sterek fics ignore Derek’s history of violence. I say, no. No they don’t. If they do, you’re reading the wrong ones. (I would also say, if they do, so what? You have no right to tell a writer what to include, but that’s a discussion for another day.) If you don’t like the fics you read, read different fics. There are tens of thousands of them. 

In conclusion, If my understanding of a ship was predominantly made up of people erasing me from my own TV show, saying I deserved to be raped and murdered, and making the rest of my friends uncomfortable or harassing them in the process? 'Bizarre, twisted and weird’ would be the nicest way to say what I think of them. (In my case, it really is.)“

Sterek is predominantly made up of people who say Tyler Posey believed to be murdered and raped? That’s ludicrous. Did Posey cop hate after his comments? Yes, he did. Threats of rape and death? I don’t know, but I very much doubt the majority of Sterek fans were saying those things. (If you’re reading this, Nyx, that’s what “predominantly” means. Words and their meanings matter.) You think he was justified in saying what he said because his friends were “getting harassed?” By “harassed” do you mean “getting paid to be asked questions at conventions by fans that shipped a pairing the show and the PR pushed publicly and loudly”? 

That’s weird. Because I think he said what he did because he didn’t like the fact that Sterek was more popular that his character.

Any Nyx needs to work on her timeline. The pushback against Posey happened after those comments, not before. It’s almost like it was cause and effect, in fact. 

But hey, he’s has a few years now where Sterek isn’t an issue at all on the show.  I wonder how that’s worked out for the ratings and stuff.