#like i wrote this before jopper was a couple and before byler was really even a thing in the fandom

[you-were-alone-too]

I found the writing notebook I bought in 2018 and I did a ship ranking for several of the ships in the show post s2 and wow if only i knew then what i knew now (ignore how cringy some of this is i was 16 okay)

[frenchkanna1808]

Before i start this Michigan realization post finished in a jopper, jancy, lumax analysis, like i wrote very long paragraphs.

Why is make america great again so popular ? Simple, it’s an obvious het ships who the GA ,who just watch the show casually, doesn't take time to realize the flaws of the relationship. But like, Hardcore minecraft shipper, how do you not see the problem in the relationship of mike and eleven. As a byler i watch multiple times scenes when they are together, do you not do the same? And if you do it are you, not to be insulting, sleeping. A lot of My Little pony call us media illiterate for analyzing the show. But do you even do it; The only proof you peeps need is “Well mike is dating El,so Mileven endgame”. It doesn’t work that way. When a ship is as great as you claim it is you can explain why they are made for one another and why their relationship works. Sometimes, even with ships i dislike/or neutral about the reasoning that two characters are made for one another make me understand the ship better, even if i don’t really like it. I can explain many ships in stranger things and why they can work.

Jancy: Nancy and Jonathan met trough the disappearance of a loved one. The y worked together to find them back. Then they realizing that they have more in common than they thought. They have similar traumas:,parents who aren't in love difficult family life; societal pressure. They start to bond about it together. In a way Jonathan gave Nancy what Nancy didn’t have with Steve, an actual bond outside of society standards. Stancy was mostly a teenage romance who was mostly physical, true Steve loved Nancy but their relationship wasn’t based on an strong bond with one another. Nancy and Steve at the time at least was completely incompatible, Nancy was in a way creating another empty marriage like her parents did. While stancy is an average teenage romance from the 80′s made from conventionally attractive people with little in common with one another, Jancy was everything that stancy wasn’t. Jonathan is poor,  a nerd, and from a pretty polarizing family in town while Steve is a jock , popular with girls; from a wealthy family. But it’s also inverse in term of actual love, Jonathan love Nancy and Nancy love Jonathan, they may not be the perfect couple, they have issues but that’s realistic.Also little point, Jancy has complimentary dream jobs( journalist/photograph), really care for each other passions and hobbies, and love each other pleasemattandroosdufferpleasedontbreakthemupibegofyou. Jancy is all about the society choice for your life and your choice for controlling your own. The logical choice for Nancy is to go with Steve, just like her mother did. To not choose her heart but her head. Steve is the better choice for Nancy to have a “normal”, conventional life just like her mom chose. But Nancy isn’t her mom, Nancy is herself. She won’t do the same mistakes as her parents not after she endured because of their loveless marriage. She gonna choose the choice that make her truly free and happy. And that is the unconditional love and freedom that loving Jonathan can give her. Or like she dumps Jonathan but like be a girlboss but don’t leave this malewife alone, well he still has argyle soo.

Jopper: Ah jopper, one of the longest slow burn in the show only second to byler. What make jopper works? Simple! Just like jancy they have a lot in common, but i will say that they have way more than jancy. Joyce and hopper are both divorced parents(rip Sarah), who have a multitude of unresolved trauma from their past life. Joyce is single mother of two boys, she love them dearly more than anythings in this worlds. But life isn’t easy for her, she’s forced to work late for gaining money for her children to have a good life. The Byers are poor i must remind you.She is still in a complicated relationship with her ex husband who abused her and her children. But i think one of Joyce biggest issues is solitude. Every time Joyce ask for help, fight for a cause nobody trust, everyone thinks she crazy. “oh it’s just Joyce being insane like always, she really a disgrace to this town, no wonder her children are just like her”. She never helped by anyone, and every time someone she care about someone, somethings bad happen to them.Joyce is alone, alone fighting for her children well being. Hopper is a cop, a alcoholic drug addicted cop, since the death of his daughter and the divorce with his wife it’s like is whole life lost it’s purpose.Even thought he the sheriff off hawking you can see he’s kind of not that liked( not that he tries to be). Hopper is clearly depressed. But in end there no chance of him healing in this condition. Hopper is alone, incapable of healing and depressed. They are both broken people from a world which isn’t kind to them. They knew each other from high school i suppose. We can see that they was always attraction between each other. Guys their literally old friend to lovers. Together jopper gets what the other needed. Love. They can finally live and love after all this years of stress and pain and grow together while seeing their kids grow too. They both lost people they care about. That’s why jopper  is beautiful, it’s all about second chance and continuing loving after the loss of people we love, its about  the continuing growth that someone can have in they life. It’s all about moving on mainly living on after the death of someone we cherished, because they might be gone but they would want you to carry on and live, live for them.

Lumax: Now we are coming into best ship territories. As you may know Lumax is in my eyes the current best cannon ship in stranger things. I lovee byler but god damm lumax really is the most developed, realistic, healthy and fantastic ship in the series. But why is that? Just like any ships that works, lumax as a lot in common. their the sassy, don’t talk no shit to me, leader type of a group. Max is more of a loner, tomboyish , sassy, brutally honest type of person. She has a rough exterior who covers her true feelings, it can be hard to see the true max. Lucas is a geek , sassy, always saying his opinion, dork. Like a mega dork. He’s like a sunshine. But i would say, while most ships have a trope that make them works, lumax trope is true love. They don’t need long love confessions or long make out sequence. The way we know they love each other isn't words, it’s actions. It’s the look in the other eyes,the shine in the eyes, the care, the immediate bright shining smile, it’s just the electricity. When they are together they still act like themselves, it is still Lucas and Max they act just like they normally are. They have their own interest and can totally live without each other, their not codependent. For teenagers i would say that they are way more mature than other kids their age. Just like Caleb said lumax love is mature, they slowly grew together learned to care for each other, love each other. Their love wasn’t instant. Against all odd, and difficulties, lumax sails up right now.             Lumax is a tale of true love, i would say a tragic one, understanding, fights and sadly pain in the end. The reason Lumax works so well compared to other ships is the realism of it all. Their relationship feels authentic. I would say that the scene of lucas with max in his arms is the scene that made me wanna kill Vecna the most, seeing his scream and tears give me the urge to punch my wall so bad. Compared to other ship it’s much more difficult to explain by words but you just know when you look at them. You feel it. They both bring best in one another and are at their brightest in each other company. So that’s why MAX BETTER LIVE OR I WILL SUE THE SUFFER BROTHER.

conclusion:

Why is Melvin so bad you would say, many reasons. The lack of communication the misunderstanding of each other personality, the lies, the very weird family parallel and more. But i think one of the main reason Machinegun doesn’t works is simple. It literally doesn't fit the core theme of stranger things Stranger things is all about the oddities and weirdness that make us unique and beautiful. The show is always following outcast of society. Every and i mean every relationship in stranger things is in a way weird or uncommon. Jopper? Two divorced middle aged parents. Jancy? Independent journalist from a good family and local weirdo boy from a badly renowned family. Lumax? Interracial couple. Rockie? no explanation needed i think. Duzie? Unusual genius girl with bright boy with facial differences( still a handsome boy but you know society sucks). Even the non cannon ships follow the theme. But Magnet is just..... stereotypical self insert bullshit for teenager shows. “Oh boy meet girl, girl weird and as super PoWers, people dislike girl because girl WEird, but boy only one who think girl cooL. Time passes and Girl develops crush on boy and become JEalous of another girl because boy hang out with her. But in the end girl is sooooo cool and fantastic and amazing and the part left of boy initial characterization is is love for girl. He is crazy obsessed with girl and it’s starting to get so toxic. Girl is just a local girlboss blank slates to be the deus ex machina of the show and is nothing other than that. When girl do something real bad she never get punished because girl is so perfect. And IN THE END boy and girl and boy love save the world or something and they still stay together even so their probably the worst option of the show.” I saw so many ships like this and it screams not only self insert to young girls who are in love with the male actor but also a very easy routes for a show named stranger things. Stranger broke the norms of how to do a “horror” show and it gave us amazing rep (even if the didn’t handle all of it that well). It’s extremely rare in current media to see a show centered around a gay man who is not stereotyped in any way. And it’s amazing! Will is my favorite character and not just because of his sexuality, he has so many layers and complexities that make me love him even more. Of course my second place go to Lucas and Eleven cause their my children but so you know. 

Back to the main topic. Making mike and el finish together is probably the easiest and stupidest choice, not only would it go against the entire logic of the to make the most plain relationship in the show and probably one the more toxic relationship we currently have as cannon but what message would this give. “Look at them they have nothing in common but you gotta ship it cause it contains the protagonist of the show, to be happy eleven gotta be with a man that so feminist of us. Oh and mike? Who give a shit about him, not like he destroyed most of his relationships to be with a girl he doesn’t even comprehend. Oh your angry because the traumatized abused gay kid never got a happy ending and that’s a “very bad message”. No one give a shit about your opinion, we hate will so much that we created an entire plot line of him falling in love with his best friend for him to be miserable. Buy our byler merch!”

Well i mean this is still my opinion so it doesn’t mean much, i’m just a random person passionate about a show, but really Melvin cannon would destroy my liking in the show. I prefer byler not endgame but melvin is separated than a melvin ending.

But anyway it wouldn't be worse than stancy endgame.

[will80sbyers]

I’m genuinely trying to understand how Mike’s monologue was hyped so much even by the duffers themselves, how it had to be this undeniable, unforgettable declaration of love, only for everyone to not give a shit about it. The polls are the final proof. Second (or third?) time they’ve put it in, no one’s voting for it. I wonder: how in the world would professional writers think that’s a good piece of writing? Now, I get that we’ve been saying that there’s more to it, that Mike might be just saying what he thinks he has to say and all that (which makes sense to me) but just taking it at a face value as milevens and the ga are taking it, aren’t they like… just a little disappointed? Aren’t they genuinely wondering why people didn’t like it? It sounds like they tried to make Mike and El more mature this season, like they wanted even the older audience to like them, and they failed miserably? HOW do you do that? Let’s just focus on them and put Byler aside for a second. How did they come up with THAT? I didn’t care much about Lumax as a couple before this season and look at me now. I fell in love in an instant. It really doesn’t take that much.

I think Finn did a great job because he acted like he should have acted ( conflicted/ not sure)

they are just lying their assess off in interviews because if they didn't MORE people would have started to talk about how weird the monologue was and how it felt really uncomfortable to watch (because it was meant to be that way! they know how to make a romantic moment!!! they did it with Lumax, jancy, jopper... and byler )

this is just proof of the fact that the monologue was meant to not be truly romantic and the fact that they wrote Martyrium like that is the proof that in season 4 they were actively trying to DESTROY that couple

you cannot recover from Mike calling Eleven ridiculous in their fight and refusing for 8 months to even write I love you in his letters to her... plus all the other proof we have about how El and Mike are not in love with each other in a romantic way....!!!!

Mendaciloquence is B O N E S

[alreadycrazystuff]

Is it just me that think Mike and Will talk about "what if they don't like the truth" is more for Mike and his relationship with Eleven than for Will?

I mean, it works for Will and his lack of interest in girls, but for Mike it works so much more.

Mike at S3 said "I love her and I can't lose her again", in front of other people, in front of his sister and i was okay with that. Then we have the final scene and she says "I love you too" (so that means she knew). Why bring this subject back on the S4?

The fact that has been years we've been talking that he didn't say "I love you" back in the moment that she declares herself, like??? I understand that it's not an easy thing and that he might have been confused or surprised but bring this discussion up again?

They're dating, and she was literally begging him to tell her he loved her. She was in pain. He was hurting her, HE DIDN'T EVEN WRITE IT IN THE LETTER, ON A FUCKING PAPER!!!!

And let's not forget that Eleven was begging for an "i love you" and only came later with her mother saying "i love you"!

Sometimes we expect love where it doesn't exist, it doesn't mean we are inept to be loved, to feel loved.

She expected a romantic love from Mike, but maybe the truth could be different, it doesn't mean he doesn't love her or doesn't CARE about her.

Let's think it's the first time a girl is interested in him, that declares to him, so it's amazing. She's beautiful, she has superpowers, his friends like her, it's all great. So why after all this time he still doesn't say he loves her? 🤔

It would be really dumb if after all of this he comes up with a monologue saying he loves her, and also every season or they're fighting or they're separated.

About the season 4, I was surprised that they brought Mike still not saying "I love you" to El. It would have been so much easier if they had used what Mike has said before in S3 and move on with the story. But why?

Why would it be hard to tell the truth? If the truth is that he loves her.......unless he doesn't.

There's no other explanation, he threw the last letter she wrote away, even though he knew he might never see her again. Weird.

Also, can we talk about Jopper and Lumax?

They didn't have a kiss, Jopper isn't even a couple yet but of course they like each other, Lumax broke up and even though they weren't together, they had important and romantic scenes.

And can we talk that Mike could have said something else instead of saying "I love you"? There are other ways of saying, of showing that he loves her, but he doesn't.

I'm still 100% sure on canon Byler, it might not be the way we think, but i still think it will happen.

I also don't think Will will confess 😅, maybe he will say or show that painting and maybe MAYBE we'll have more hints and Mike will realize that he doesn't love Eleven.

I hate an open ending but that's what I think will happen at the end of vol. 2. You know like, "are they 👀 you know 👀 in love 👀?"

And finally, what the fuck will happen on the S5? It feels like this season is the last. What will be the plot of the next one? It seems a bit repetitive yk.

Don't stop believing because of that leak. It's kind of ambiguous and vague. The ones we can't mention (melvins), interpret everything in their way, without seeing the details, parallels and stuff, like the airport scene. So everybody calm down!

There's still a lot to happen.

[strangertheory]

With the theory about Hopper and others potentially being introjects, would that mean that everything that took place with Hopper and others like El and Will etc. was purely in an inner world? Joyce for example, who I assume isn’t an introject...her interactions with the Hopper we see would have never happened, at least IRL? Also, how do you think they would reveal this theory to the audience in a way that they understand? I find it interesting but I think if they outright state it, it could be seen as sensationalizing DID by comparing it to scifi and could receive criticism. I hope you’re well, btw!

I’ll answer each of your questions one at a time. (Thanks for messaging!)

“With the theory about Hopper and others potentially being introjects, would that mean that everything that took place with Hopper and others like El and Will etc. was purely in an inner world?"

The nature of an introject alter is that they are based on a person or character who exists in the external world. Introjects can be “factives” (based on a real person – perhaps like Chief Jim Hopper) or “fictives” (based on a fictional character – like the Demogorgon or the Mindflayer.)

Therefore this means that, hypothetically, if there is an introject who is based on an original Jim Hopper that the Byers family knows, that there could hypothetically be scenes that are the “original” Chief Jim Hopper and then scenes that are a very different Jim Hopper who exists in internal worlds in the DID System. Some scenes might be one Hopper, and some scenes might be the other Hopper.

It’s important to keep in mind that when there is an introject alter based on a person that does not mean that the introject alter will behave and think and act exactly like the “original” that their identity was based on. Their mind subconsciously established a new alter and identity that knows themselves to be Jim Hopper, but that person will be totally different from who the other Jim Hopper is because they are truly not the same person. An alter of Jim Hopper might be based on one particular idea of who Jim Hopper is as a person, but alter-Hopper’s identity can also be heavily influenced by the DID System’s lived experiences and thoughts and sometimes even other people that they know too, and therefore the accuracy of that initial persona of alter-Hopper will be entirely dependent on the DID System’s interpretation of who they think Jim Hopper is.

Joyce for example, who I assume isn’t an introject...her interactions with the Hopper we see would have never happened, at least IRL?”

So. Joyce! Hopper and Joyce. Within my current DID theory and meta I see a variety of possibilities regarding Hopper and Joyce’s interactions with one another as well as a variety of possibilities about Joyce’s character. We currently know her as Jonathan and Will’s mom. I did briefly touch on one hypothetical in which Joyce might not be, under all circumstances in the series, “mom” a few months ago but I haven’t discussed it extensively because it’s an idea that I doubt would be especially popular in the fan community and is very niche to my current thoughts on the series. You can read my speculation on “a Joyce who is not mom” in this blogpost here at this link. I do see it as hypothetically possible that there is a Joyce that is an alter. Hypothetically. There are many possibilities, but I do see this as one of many hypotheticals. I recognize this is a very controversial “what if?” and many will see it as highly unlikely, but the possibility that there is a Joyce who is not mom and that is perhaps a very well-loved and trustworthy person in the DID System’s life and who has an introject alter based on the “original Joyce” who might not be a parent but perhaps is, in the external world, a doctor or a nurse or a therapist that Will and Jonathan know as “mom” was something that I have considered. Maybe. Hypothetically. Perhaps.

I am working on a very long blogpost in which I’ll explore a handful of very different hypotheticals about Hopper’s character and my thoughts about his role as the “deeply flawed but protective dad” in the story as well as address my thoughts regarding his relationship with Joyce. Hopper’s dynamic with Will and Hopper’s dynamic with El are also very interesting to me, so I’ll definitely be exploring his relationship with each of them in that WIP blogpost as well.

I’ve avoided talking about Hopper and Joyce for a while because many of the hypotheticals that I’ve considered about their characters are rather incompatible with current popular fandom ideas about their relationship. I don’t really ship Jopper, but it’s arguably one of the most popular ships in the fan community. There are one or two scenarios in which I could see Jopper being “endgame” but there are a handful of hypotheticals in which I see them absolutely not being a couple at all. I’ll be discussing most of these hypotheticals that I’ve considered in the Hopper blogpost that I’m working on. Originally I wasn’t going to talk about Hopper at all until after season 4 because I was anxious about how my ideas might be received by the fan community, but given that even the most mundane opinions that I’ve expressed over the last year have resulted in me receiving a few angry anonymous messages I figured: screw it. If I can’t even ship Byler or like Bob Newby without getting a little bit of harassment and pushback from other fans then I may as well talk about whatever I want and share all of my ideas. So I will be finally sharing all of my ideas about Hopper and his relationship with Joyce, El, and Will. The blogpost I’m working on will probably take a while to finish but I hope to publish it before season 4 is released.

When I’m thinking about different theories and possibilities for what might be happening in Stranger Things I rarely feel as if there’s only one possible route for the story to take. Yes, I do at this point feel very confident that there is a meta narrative happening in the story and that not everything is as fans currently believe them to be regarding both the character relationships and what each character is dealing with, but the possibilities that exist within that are vast. I might suspect that Stranger Things is intended to be about a DID System, but this creates millions of possibilities for the route that the story could take. I might believe that I’m starting to notice certain consistent details that imply the Stranger Things universe is based on something that has a logic and structure to it, but that doesn’t mean that I’m suddenly psychic and can predict what will happen within that universe’s structure. The story is in the hands of the writers, and I’m eager to see where they take it.

“Also, how do you think they would reveal this theory to the audience in a way that they understand?”

I wrote about how this could hypothetically be explored and revealed in the show in this blogpost here. 

“I find it interesting but I think if they outright state it, it could be seen as sensationalizing DID by comparing it to scifi and could receive criticism.”

Although it is hypothetically possible that writers could choose to create a fictional story in which superpowers are real and a character with DID also happens to have superpowers, and this has been done before in popular media (ex. David Haller, aka Legion, who was first introduced in the X-Men comics in 1985 and who has dissociative identity disorder and who has alters with mutant abilities) I personally currently theorize that all of the fantastical events that have happened in Stranger Things so far might be intended to have happened exclusively in internal worlds and not in the external world at all. Events that take place in internal worlds are not limited by the rules of physics and what is “real” in the same way that events that take place in our external world are. Events in internal worlds can be very metaphorical and fantastical because they exist within the mind. The scifi and fantasy elements of the story could, hypothetically, be directly tied to fantastical events that are not sensationalized but are truly accurate to the way that some (but not all) real DID Systems might process memories and trauma within their internal worlds. Internal worlds aren’t dreams, they’re much more vivid and consistently structured and they are often structured around real-world experiences that they’ve experienced, however I want to very loosely compare an internal world to a “dream world” in order to clarify why having fantastical events and monsters and characters with superpowers in an internal world would not necessarily be sensationalizing DID but rather portraying a realistic hypothetical. Telling a story that features internal worlds in a DID System in which fantastical events happen is not inherently sensationalization since fantastical events can and do happen in some real DID Systems’ internal worlds and that is not something that is exaggerated or fictionalized at all. What might seem unrealistic and fantastical to us might be very real for them and most especially for alters who spend significant amount of time in internal worlds. To alters that live in internal worlds exclusively and never front in the body the internal world is their real world and, comparatively, our world might feel very fictitious and unreal to them. But it’s definitely important to keep in mind that every DID System will be very different, and that any one example of a DID System isn’t necessarily comparable to others since their unique experiences will define the way that their System works.

The ethics of “should a popular show like Stranger Things be about DID” is a complex question and an important one, but I haven’t explored it extensively because I believe we do not currently have enough information regarding the approach and the resources that the production team and writers have taken in the creation of the Stranger Things universe and story in order to discuss those ethics at much depth quite yet. If the story is, in fact, about DID or a specific mental condition: did they consult with medical experts? Are any DID Systems directly involved in the production as consultants? Is this particular series entirely fictionalized or are certain plotpoints based on real DID Systems’ experiences? If they are not basing the events of the story on a “true story” then what are the ethics of creating an original story about a fictional DID System? I do believe it is important that creators make a conscious effort to be informed and ethical in their approach to storytelling that involves any real-world medical references, especially with regard to commonly misunderstood and misrepresented conditions like DID, but given the nature of Stranger Things and the way that I believe we are not yet aware of the “bigger picture” of what is happening in the story because the writers intend for it to be revealed in future seasons, I do not think we know enough of the context of the creation of the show in order to begin discussing those nuances. I think and hope that we will learn a lot more over the next few years as seasons 4 and 5 are released. The question of “should they” is a different topic than “are they,” however. Whether they “should” or whether they are doing it “well” will need to be discussed if and when we know if they actually are doing it and also once we know more about their creative approach to the subject matter and what resources they have used in the creation of the Stranger Things universe. I think the direction that the story takes next is also going to be important regarding the assessment of whether or not the story was written ethically, too. If they reveal, for example, that the story is about a DID System that has murdered people or done terrible things then I would immediately say “nope, that’s a misrepresentation and a continued stigmatization of a deeply misunderstood community and I see the story as being unethically done.” But we don’t know what will happen in season 4 and 5 yet. Thus far all I can say is that I believe the writers have effectively encouraged us, as fans, to deeply empathize with and care about El and Will and Hopper and everyone and that this gives me hope that whatever the story is about that the writers are taking an approach that is deeply respectful of those who are neurodivergent or dealing with mental illness like PTSD etc. They’re the heroes and survivors and they are not the villains. And that in itself matters very much. But I guess we will see what happens in next in the series and whether or not the story is about DID or is about something else entirely.

“I hope you’re well, btw!”

Thank you! ^_^ I’m doing really well right now. 

...

*As always please keep in mind that I'm doing my best to explain things as well as I can but that, ultimately, if you'd like to learn more about DID and internal worlds and alters that you should find up-to-date and recent medical resources on these subjects. I am not a medical resource I'm a stranger on the internet talking about a fictional Netflix series.

[kaypeace21]

I feel like you’re the right person to tell this to, but Mileven makes me REALLY uncomfortable. I’m an adult fan (I watch the show mostly for Winona Ryder) and I felt really gross watching the scenes of them making out, knowing that adults wrote those scenes and shot them, and how many people would’ve been there during shooting. Please tell me I’m not alone.

I agree that it makes me feel uncomfortable and gross, too. But, I actually think the Duffers wanted you to feel uncomfortable (and I think mileven was portrayed as ‘off’ and ‘too much’ for that reason).  Think about it, when it comes to almost all their other cannon couples- they use kisses sparingly. Jancy has only kissed, romantically 3x (2 of those times were simple kisses- not full blown make-outs), and their first kiss (and only make-out) was quickly obscured as they closed the door.

(x)

Jopper has never kissed, and lumax had an innocent kid-kiss once (and even when back together in s3, they never kissed).

The duffers are sparing with kiss- scenes, unless they are portraying a relationship that won’t work.Most of the relationships that are cannon (with the exception of mileven) focus almost completely on how they communicate with one another- and relationships that lack this (spend most of their time just making-out).  What’s the ship that has had the most kiss scenes in the whole series? In the bathroom, library, bedroom(s), garage, in a car, multiple places at school (and has probably had at least 6-7 kiss scenes or more - and  who even made out on a bed to corny romance music just like mileven (pre-s3?)- Stancy.  Heck, we even see Nancy lose her v**ginity to Steve- but didn’t see Jancy do-it. Because we aren’t supposed to focus on their physical relationship but their emotional one.

Stancy and mileven have had alot of parallels. The wheelers (Nancy and Karen) already made a habit of pretending they’re in love with people- because that relationship is what is deemed the most socially acceptable. Nancy rebelling with the cool-jock (Steve), trying to not be like her parents. And Karen with Ted. Nancy even says in s1 “I don’t think my parents ever loved each other. My mom was young. My dad was older… but he had a cushy job, money, came from a good family. So they bought a house at the end of the cul de sac and started their nuclear family”. Ted  & Steve were paralleled to each other, having them both eat chicken as their partners  (Karen/Nancy) stormed off upset (and they did nothing). And El was paralleled to Ted by sitting in Ted’s laz-boy chair. And Dustin even refers to mileven as “bullshit” just like Nancy described Stancy as “bullshit”.  

(x)

So to reiterate , Mike is doing the same thing as Nancy & Karen- being with someone they don’t love. And only staying with them becuause they are the more socially acceptable/’correct’ option…because El’s a girl (unlike Will). 

Also, the fact that Murray’s line to Nancy sounds more queer coded than applicable to Nancy - “ Afraid that if you’d accept yourself for who you really are (cough queer-subtext), and retreated back to… name, name? Steve. Steve! we like Steve (El) but we don’t love Steve (El).”

So, the over-top kisses were done as yet another parallel. And again s2 made fun of (kids who are) mileven shippers ( I’ll talk about that later). 

But , S3 was the Duffers criticizing the adult mileven shippers- who are obsessed with mileven kissing. 

Like don’t get me wrong there’s some weird byler shippers (but the majority of byler shippers focus on the emotional not physical part of their relationship).

Think about it. Look how they framed this scene of mileven kissing- making us the viewer feel like a peeping-tom, watching them through the crack in the door. Then El sees the viewer and subsequently gasps and slams the door in front of our faces. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE! 

The Duffers and their crew (like good directors) were manipulating your emotions- without you realizing how or why. They were also calling-out the adult-mileven shippers (not all of them but the ones) who are obsessed with their kiss scenes - creepy AF. The duffers never even wrote for mileven to kiss in s2- but Millie said they “had to for the fans”. And so the Duffers conceded and put in a song about a bad-breakup during the mileven kiss - and their backup-song-choice was even about a divorce. XD

So the 2 mileven make-out scenes were supposed to make you uncomfortable- because not only are they kids (who are making out on a bed , but the way they were framed).

So that 3rd and last kiss. Was 100% supposed to make you uncomfortable (but just for a different reason).

Like it or not Mike either forgot that he said he “loved her”. Or just LIED to El (despite this being the reason they broke up in the first place)- and pretends he didn’t confess to her . He  has never said “ I love you’, once to her face! He even tries to take the words back (before the kiss) and says about the prior love confession “ Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t really remember. What did I say exactly?”

  And , after that discussion, they frame El (before she says “I love you”), strangely. They make El look large and imposing, as she approaches the motionless Mike (who feels both physically & emotionally cornered) .You the viewer, subconsciously are feeling claustrophobic/trapped/and stuck along with Mike. Which is why you are so uncomfortable watching this scene, unfold.

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When she says “I love you”, he looks genuinely confused- or just uncomfortable ( his eyebrows are still scrunched-up).

And then… cue the most awkward kiss in the history as Mike doesn’t kiss her back and keeps his eyes open the whole time… it’s just weird/awkward (sorry).

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We even see El’s reaction , after the kiss (happy, smiling and giddy). But then we blur the screen to see Mike’s opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.

And In s2 they insulted the young-girls who are obsessed with mileven (since they can frankly,  be the most toxic of the milevens). 

In the Montauk pitch (later named Stranger things) they describe the Mike and El dynamic by saying “ If Mike is the Eliot of our show,Eleven is our Et.” (AKA they’re from different planets)

And In s2 , Erica  is forcing He-man and barbie to make out. Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.

Erica: “Hey , They’re in love!”

Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): “No, actually, they’re not. They don’t even exist on the same planet.”

And again the Duffers have described El in multiple interviews as “similar to ET”, and “like an alien” (even after s3). And in s1, they alluded to El being like “an alien from another planet”  by comparing her to ET (with the Reese’s pieces vs eggos moments,  the bike-scene, and the makeover). 

S3 portrayed mileven as toxic in a myriad of ways. And these other examples, might be stretches, but Mike saying to Max in s2  “How can I hate you, I don’t know you.” could also be a ‘dig’ at mileven.(Because: he knew Max for a week, just as long as El- so how could he hate or love either of them?)

And Mike saying to Dustin incredulously “ You have a bond? Just cause he likes nougat (eggos)?” Could be another subtle jab.

Especially since it’s cannon Mike isn’t the biggest fan of eggos to begin with.

Don’t even get me started at how much the st writing staff- makes fun of mileven - more details about it here.  But just one example is when the ‘Stranger writers’ ( the official account of the ST writing staff ) got into a huge text-chain with ‘Stranger Things’ (the official account of the show) where they just low-key dragged mileven together.

Mileven was never meant to be end game-they planned for her to die in season 1 (which I’m glad didn’t happen). But, regardless, it was always supposed to be a simple fleeting crush … but the viewers decided to take it way too seriously. After s3, the Duffers reiterate that mileven is just that.

 And the Duffers are smart guys, I bet they’re are 100% aware of how toxic the milevens are to bylers (and how they can also be creepy and harass Finn). Not to mention, as writers, who put so much effort into the show- having people hyper-fixate on mileven (which they don’t even like), instead of the plot must drive them insane.Especially when those shippers can be toxic, homophobic, and entitled. The fact people don’t realize the Duffers hate mileven- is honestly hilarious XD.